| Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
   |
Posted - 2007.12.26 21:01:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Titen
Where does podkilling enter into it, as far as pirating goes? It doesn't - at all.
...
For those who would say 'wardec them', my obvious reply is 'they didn't wardec me to hit me to begin with, why should I take a sec status hit just to get some payback?'
So I'm off now. Dont think I argued my point well at all here.
First, for pirates, as you haven't read, there's the ransom thing. Besides that, as we're just discussing random gate camps and not territory protecting ones, if they don't pod you, it's likely your pod will make it to the next system and be able to warn everyone in system "There's a x number of ship gate camp through this gate", which results in fewer ships going through the gate and fewer kills so fewer cargo holds to loot. So, either way, unless honor or a fear of retaliation or sec status hit comes into account, a gatecamping pirate should pod you. Period.
All of what I said in my previous paragraph has been said in other people's posts here that you've chosen to ignore; so, no, that's not a very good way to argue your point.
And by the way, wardeccing them doesn't give you a status hit. In fact, if you attack pilots that you are in a war with, you do not get a status hit. Wardeccing is a way to avoid status hit (and avoid CONCORD, if in high sec).
So my advice would be (a) learn how Eve really works (b) don't whine about mechanics of game (it's allowable, so it will happen, no matter what their reasoning is) (c) don't whine about the mechanics of the game (it makes you look like an unreasoning whiner, just don't do it) and (d) adapt or GTFO.
--
My sig taken from this site, so thoroughly explains the people I speak with on the forums. |
Titen
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 21:09:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Angel DeMorphis
Originally by: Titen
Where does podkilling enter into it, as far as pirating goes? It doesn't - at all.
...
For those who would say 'wardec them', my obvious reply is 'they didn't wardec me to hit me to begin with, why should I take a sec status hit just to get some payback?'
So I'm off now. Dont think I argued my point well at all here.
First, for pirates, as you haven't read, there's the ransom thing.
I've already discussed ther ransom thing - so perhaps it is you who hasn't read.
Dont get on your high horse about people not paying attention, until you learn to do so yourself.
Thanks for playing though, parting gifts are just outside the door marked 'Exit'
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 21:12:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Titen
So I'm off now.
Well this lasted a long time.
-
DesuSigs |
Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 21:12:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Titen
Ok, I can accept the 'forward ops' viewpoint on a pod.. that makes sense.
But I still dont understand how having a pod in your imagined 'territory' when you are not at war with the corp/alliance of the podowner would be detrimental to your cause.
I suppose it could be an alt in that pod, so the argument holds it's value to that extent.
But in the case of pirating, they are not attempting to just 'hold space' or defend a position.. they're (theoretically) supposed to be there to gank incoming ships (no problem with that), steal the cargo/remains of the ship they destroyed (no problem with that), and make their fortunes that way.
Where does podkilling enter into it, as far as pirating goes? It doesn't - at all.
But, I guess the only way to make it so you can still gatecamp a system in a non-pirate fashion (in order to protect your territory), the ability to podkill a potential alt spy is desireable.
Since I cant think of a way to make that happen, as well as stop basic pirates from podkilling, I guess the sec status hit's pirates take are the only viable 'punishment' for such an action.
I would, however, like any pilot (who is not war dec'd with me), that podkills me, to be potentially causing harm to their entire corp. Such as, not just having the pirates who fired on me be in my kill rights list - but their entire corporation.
If a corp cant keep their pilots in line, or if a corp is purely pirate friendly when it comes to their own members, then I should be able to stomp on any of that corps pilots when I come across them.
For those who would say 'wardec them', my obvious reply is 'they didn't wardec me to hit me to begin with, why should I take a sec status hit just to get some payback?'
So I'm off now. Dont think I argued my point well at all here.
Podkills are just salt on the wound. Especially against more experienced pilots who's clone costs are starting to get into the millions per death.
I've heard it suggested on our TS to let the pods go so they have to crawl back through 0.0 space naked. For everyday raiding, yeah, why not?
On a typical basis, consider the podkill an victor's way of saying, "Really, we mean it, go away."
|
Titen
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 21:29:00 -
[125]
My point was lost. All I am talking about is pirating.
What point is it for a pirate - who's 'task' is to rob from the rich/poor and keep for themselves - to podkill their prey?
Podkilling when you are not trying to say 'stay away, and I mean it' is lame.
Want to protect your territory? Podkill all day - it's an effective tool.
But for the players who pretend to play 'pirate', there's no realistic or rational reason for it.
However, noone ever said the universe was supposed to be rational.. so when I see you piloting happily through a system, and decide to podkill you just for the heck of it, I guess that should be considered rational gameplay.
EvE, where the strong pick on the weak, and if 'stronger' shows up, the strong just run away - oh what a way to ratify your dominant position in space.
Last note.. the big thing that comes up during these discussions is 'you should use an alt to scout the gate first'.
Sorry, but game mechanics dont allow that - since I can only log in under a single pilot at a time. Or, are you saying that the only people who should be allowed a chance to live in the universe are those who can afford two accounts? Or those who dont want to join a corp should HAVE to in order to traverse space?
My my.. for a group that is so bent on saying this game lets you do what you want to have your fun, there sure are a lot of prerequisites and restrictions you have to deal with before your fun can begin.
Thus far what I've mostly seen is excuses with no merit for pirates. "Scout the gate first", "We should be able to podkill you so you cant warn others about our gate camp". Hmm.. sure sounds like you want your cake and ice cream, without all the calories. Remove the 'risk' from your endeavor, but when someone else suggests that their own risk should be lightened it's a bad thing.
Shrug.
|
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 21:34:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Janu Hull
Everyone hates gatecamps, until they get a chance to join one.
Yeah, for a couple of hours, then it's time to watch TV. Might as well be mining.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 21:37:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Titen
What point is it for a pirate - who's 'task' is to rob from the rich/poor and keep for themselves - to podkill their prey?
Fail for assuming fixed roles in the game world.
Originally by: Titen
Podkilling when you are not trying to say 'stay away, and I mean it' is lame.
Fail for stating your opinion as fact.
Originally by: Titen
But for the players who pretend to play 'pirate', there's no realistic or rational reason for it.
Fail for thinking you need a reason to do anything in the game.
Originally by: Titen
Last note.. the big thing that comes up during these discussions is 'you should use an alt to scout the gate first'.
Sorry, but game mechanics dont allow that - since I can only log in under a single pilot at a time. Or, are you saying that the only people who should be allowed a chance to live in the universe are those who can afford two accounts? Or those who dont want to join a corp should HAVE to in order to traverse space?
Fail for assuming the game balanced around solo pilots.
4 hit monsterfailcombo.
-
DesuSigs |
N'irrti
Amarr
PURE Legion
Pure.
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 21:42:00 -
[128]
<3 Crumplecorn
|
Mark Lucius
The Vinlanders
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 21:43:00 -
[129]
<3 Crumplecorn
---
|
Titen
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 21:49:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Titen
What point is it for a pirate - who's 'task' is to rob from the rich/poor and keep for themselves - to podkill their prey?
Fail for assuming fixed roles in the game world.
Not assuming anything, just telling you that the pirate who claims to be pirating for pirating sake is the subject matter I'm discussion - Fail returned, volley 1
Originally by: Titen
Podkilling when you are not trying to say 'stay away, and I mean it' is lame.
Fail for stating your opinion as fact.
I never said it was a fact, but I'm glad you read my opinions as facts and have to comment about it - Fail returned - volley 2
Originally by: Titen
But for the players who pretend to play 'pirate', there's no realistic or rational reason for it.
Fail for thinking you need a reason to do anything in the game.
Thank you for proving my point that there is no reason for podkilling when a pirate is 'pirating' for goods - Fail returned, volley 3
Originally by: Titen
Last note.. the big thing that comes up during these discussions is 'you should use an alt to scout the gate first'.
Sorry, but game mechanics dont allow that - since I can only log in under a single pilot at a time. Or, are you saying that the only people who should be allowed a chance to live in the universe are those who can afford two accounts? Or those who dont want to join a corp should HAVE to in order to traverse space?
Fail for assuming the game balanced around solo pilots.
But it is constantly stated that if "I" (or anyone else) want to survive a camp, "I" (or anyone else) needs to scout first. Since that cant be done on a single account in a non-corp, then the game is not 'balanced around solo pilots'.. it is, rather, skewed way off balance for multiaccount/corp pilots. - Fail returned - volley 4
If the argument is now going to be 'there are more corp/multiaccount pilots than single account/noncorp pilots - therefore the way the majority plays is the rule', then perhaps other things need to be changed as well.. cuz I'm pretty sure that there are more carebears in ES than in the whole of the remaining EvE universe.. so should we start allowing them to dictate what is 'fair' and what is 'not fair' to the rest of us?
Lets see.. we'll start off with 'you cant shoot at me unless I target you back' and 'a mechanism needs to be in place to make us all EVEN, regardless of pilot age, so if I'm a 1 day noob and you're a 5 year vet - you need to be dropped down to my level of ability in order to fight me'
Yay.. democracy.
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 21:54:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Titen
If the argument is now going to be 'there are more corp/multiaccount pilots than single account/noncorp pilots - therefore the way the majority plays is the rule', then perhaps other things need to be changed as well.. cuz I'm pretty sure that there are more carebears in ES than in the whole of the remaining EvE universe.. so should we start allowing them to dictate what is 'fair' and what is 'not fair' to the rest of us?
Wow. This fails so hard I think you caused everyone who read it mild brain damage.
EVE isn't balanced around multiple players because the majority of people play that way.
EVE is balanced around multiple players because it is a Massively Multiplayer Online Game.
-
DesuSigs |
Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 21:56:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Janu Hull
Everyone hates gatecamps, until they get a chance to join one.
Yeah, for a couple of hours, then it's time to watch TV. Might as well be mining.
Either way, you're farming, its simply a question of skills and fit.
|
Titen
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 22:02:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Titen
If the argument is now going to be 'there are more corp/multiaccount pilots than single account/noncorp pilots - therefore the way the majority plays is the rule', then perhaps other things need to be changed as well.. cuz I'm pretty sure that there are more carebears in ES than in the whole of the remaining EvE universe.. so should we start allowing them to dictate what is 'fair' and what is 'not fair' to the rest of us?
Wow. This fails so hard I think you caused everyone who read it mild brain damage.
EVE isn't balanced around multiple players because the majority of people play that way.
EVE is balanced around multiple players because it is a Massively Multiplayer Online Game.
You should really quit while you're behind.
The second "M" in MMORPG does not mean 'multiplayer' as in 'you have more than one account'.
You're not even worth debating the issue with any more.. that's got to be the most ignorant thing I've read in months.
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 22:06:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Titen
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Titen
If the argument is now going to be 'there are more corp/multiaccount pilots than single account/noncorp pilots - therefore the way the majority plays is the rule', then perhaps other things need to be changed as well.. cuz I'm pretty sure that there are more carebears in ES than in the whole of the remaining EvE universe.. so should we start allowing them to dictate what is 'fair' and what is 'not fair' to the rest of us?
Wow. This fails so hard I think you caused everyone who read it mild brain damage.
EVE isn't balanced around multiple players because the majority of people play that way.
EVE is balanced around multiple players because it is a Massively Multiplayer Online Game.
You should really quit while you're behind.
The second "M" in MMORPG does not mean 'multiplayer' as in 'you have more than one account'.
You're not even worth debating the issue with any more.. that's got to be the most ignorant thing I've read in months.
What is the difference, in practice, in game balance terms, of 2 players using 2 accounts, and 1 player using 2 accounts?
(answer is 'None' BTW)
-
DesuSigs |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 22:06:00 -
[135]
Fortunately he didn't say anything about multiple accounts. That was you.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Mark Lucius
The Vinlanders
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.26 22:24:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Mark Lucius on 26/12/2007 22:27:16
Your medical clone and your implants are assets like any other and are therefore subject to the same risks when transporting them.
There are more forms of competition other than war. Podding has several effects in most cases and can result in someone losing SP. Besides beating the competition (without prior agreement, everyone in the game is a competitor), this has one important result: satisfaction. This does not require further justification.
Gatecamps can be easily avoided by intelligent use of the map, the scanner and your brain. It is even easier with the use of an alt, either one from the same account or a second. *edit* Just in case it isn't obvious, having someone else scout for you is also a solution.
---
|
Siriyana
Astrum Contract Services Group
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 00:27:00 -
[137]
After reading this thread I can only offer a single reply, and I hope that it loses absolutely nothing in its brevity, or its translation to the original poster and his or her ideas about gatecamping, this game, what he or she expects of this game as opposed to the reality of what this game is.
My reply is; ROFL.
-----
CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
|
Atomos Darksun
Damage Incorporated.
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 00:32:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Titen
Ok, I can accept the 'forward ops' viewpoint on a pod.. that makes sense.
But I still dont understand how having a pod in your imagined 'territory' when you are not at war with the corp/alliance of the podowner would be detrimental to your cause.
I suppose it could be an alt in that pod, so the argument holds it's value to that extent.
But in the case of pirating, they are not attempting to just 'hold space' or defend a position.. they're (theoretically) supposed to be there to gank incoming ships (no problem with that), steal the cargo/remains of the ship they destroyed (no problem with that), and make their fortunes that way.
Where does podkilling enter into it, as far as pirating goes? It doesn't - at all.
But, I guess the only way to make it so you can still gatecamp a system in a non-pirate fashion (in order to protect your territory), the ability to podkill a potential alt spy is desireable.
Since I cant think of a way to make that happen, as well as stop basic pirates from podkilling, I guess the sec status hit's pirates take are the only viable 'punishment' for such an action.
I would, however, like any pilot (who is not war dec'd with me), that podkills me, to be potentially causing harm to their entire corp. Such as, not just having the pirates who fired on me be in my kill rights list - but their entire corporation.
If a corp cant keep their pilots in line, or if a corp is purely pirate friendly when it comes to their own members, then I should be able to stomp on any of that corps pilots when I come across them.
For those who would say 'wardec them', my obvious reply is 'they didn't wardec me to hit me to begin with, why should I take a sec status hit just to get some payback?'
So I'm off now. Dont think I argued my point well at all here.
what are you, completely ******* ********?
You don't HAVE to be at war with someone to be their enemies.
Let's say I'm in IAC.
Let's say, -V-/CoW decides to send in a fleet of battleships to F4R2 to oohhh I dunno, shoot at IAC because we each hate each others guts.
So now you're saying that even though they came straight into our territory, started shooting at us, that we can't pop their pods?
Moron.
In EVE, it's all about the freedom of what you want to do. Therefore, "because I want to" is a completely valid answer. Why do people pvp? Because they want to. QED.
-----
|
Titen
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 00:48:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Atomos Darksun
In EVE, it's all about the freedom of what you want to do. Therefore, "because I want to" is a completely valid answer. Why do people pvp? Because they want to. QED.
Odd.. I didnt WANT to pvp when I was gatecamp podkilled.. so that kinda podkills your argument huh?
Once again, you show that it is what someone else 'wants' that overrides what other people dont 'want' and your only response to the 'why is this a fair situation' is 'because I want to'.
Nice debating skills there.
|
Siriyana
Astrum Contract Services Group
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 01:11:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Titen
Originally by: Atomos Darksun
In EVE, it's all about the freedom of what you want to do. Therefore, "because I want to" is a completely valid answer. Why do people pvp? Because they want to. QED.
Odd.. I didnt WANT to pvp when I was gatecamp podkilled.. so that kinda podkills your argument huh?
Once again, you show that it is what someone else 'wants' that overrides what other people dont 'want' and your only response to the 'why is this a fair situation' is 'because I want to'.
Nice debating skills there.
That's what the rules of the game allow. CCP creates the rules the game operates by, the players operate within the bounds of those rules. If you dislike the rules the game operates by, there are many other games for you to choose from. If you like the rules and can overcome, then stay.
-----
CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
|
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 01:20:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Avon on 27/12/2007 01:22:09
It's all about teh pretty kersplosions and da squelchy sounds.
Nuffink wrong wiv dat.
My gate is my door
Enter and expect peril:
Winter brings much death.
*Added: Where is it that the anti-gatecampers would like to be killed?
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 01:24:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Titen
Originally by: Atomos Darksun
In EVE, it's all about the freedom of what you want to do. Therefore, "because I want to" is a completely valid answer. Why do people pvp? Because they want to. QED.
Odd.. I didnt WANT to pvp when I was gatecamp podkilled.. so that kinda podkills your argument huh?
Once again, you show that it is what someone else 'wants' that overrides what other people dont 'want' and your only response to the 'why is this a fair situation' is 'because I want to'.
Nice debating skills there.
Didn't want to? Really? Did you press the undock button?
Why is it a fair situation? It's not. 'Fair' is not a concept used in EVE.
-
DesuSigs |
Shardrael
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 01:26:00 -
[143]
we getting alot of wow players lately or what?
|
Titen
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 01:30:00 -
[144]
Anyone who resorts to WoW references has zero need to be listened to in the first place.
I've only played EvE - ever. No other MMORPG has ever crossed my bandwidth.
And, in the end, the resounding answer to 'Can anyone give me a valid reason, other than 'because they can', for a pirate - acting as a pirate and not defending territory - to be podkilling?' is:
"Because they can"
No wonder CCP ignores most of these threads.. you fanboy types are useless. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 01:33:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Titen
Anyone who resorts to WoW references has zero need to be listened to in the first place.
I've only played EvE - ever. No other MMORPG has ever crossed my bandwidth.
And, in the end, the resounding answer to 'Can anyone give me a valid reason, other than 'because they can', for a pirate - acting as a pirate and not defending territory - to be podkilling?' is:
"Because they can"
No wonder CCP ignores most of these threads.. you fanboy types are useless.
If you won't accept that 'because they can' is all the reason they need, there is zero need to listen to you. And you probably should gb2/WoW.
-
DesuSigs |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 01:39:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Titen
No wonder CCP ignores most of these threads.. you fanboy types are useless.
One of the greatest things about Eve is that you can actually play one of the "bad guys" in a meaningful way.
"Evil" players are constrained by the game mechanics in the same way as "Good" players, and so any perception you have of advantage or unfairness is based purely on your own moralistic viewpoint and nothing more.
It is perfectly possible for the "good" guys to shoot the "bad" guys first, but they won't because then *they* are the "bad" guys.
It is just a matter of perspective.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Plaetean
Murder-Death-Kill
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 01:51:00 -
[147]
Jesus guys it's a ******* troll post, how on earth did it get to 6 pages.
-----
|
Titen
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 02:19:00 -
[148]
Hey, I can accept that 'because they can' is a good enough reason for pirates to podkill just for the sake of podkilling.
The only reason this got so drawn out was because I was basically called a moron because I said that the reason was lame.
It's as if 'because they can' cant also be a 'lame' reason or something, so I asked for explanations why it wasn't.
I've been playing EvE for about five years now and dont plan on going anywhere.
Pirates do as pirates do.. they are a part of the game, and make it more interesting.
My own losses of ships and gear are due to my own stupidity at the time of the loss, and I'm not gonna blame some game mechanic for it.
I just said podkilling outside of war was lame.
Then I agreed that podkilling to defend territory wasn't lame, and made sense.
Then I agreed that podkilling after a ransom demand was rejected wasn't lame, and made sense.
All that was left was podkilling 'because they can' in the 'lame' category.. and I think it still is in the lame category.
Yes, okay, all right, fine, i UNDERSTAND that you CAN podkill.. but that doesn't mean it's not LAME to do it for no reason at all other than chest beating.
The OP says camping ruins the game.. that mws shouldn't be able to catch frigs.. etc.. I dont agree at all. Having my ship blown up didn't ruin anything for me. I didn't care too much.
Having my pod toasted and losing implants in the process was no real biggie, cuz I can easily afford replacements. So it's not out of suffering, pain, or whineyness that I even bothered to post. It was to point out an activity that I find to be uncalled for.
Just because my perception of what is 'acceptable' is different from yours doesn't mean I'm wrong - or that you are wrong. It doesn't make either one of us dumb.
What makes you dumb is fanboy attitudes and 'thats the way it is so live with it' remarks.. or 'go play WoW'.. or 'why dont you just quit'.. instead of constructive discussions about an issue. And, yes, I too can play right along in the deconstrutive attitude category. Sometimes you have to stoop to ignorant remarks and troll-like responses just to get through the thick skulls out there.
See ya in space.
Titen |
Mordrake
Dragons Of Redemption
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 02:43:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Mordrake on 27/12/2007 02:43:39
I just wish I could "Tea Bag" the corpses in space after I POD Kill ; [
It would make my Gate Camp expierience all the more enjoyable!!
CCP INTRODUCE TEA BAGGING!!
"Arte et Marte" |
Siriyana
Astrum Contract Services Group
|
Posted - 2007.12.27 03:10:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Mordrake
CCP INTRODUCE TEA BAGGING!!
/signed
-----
CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |