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Sara Silva	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:17:00 - [1] The current gate camping mechanism ruins the entire game. I think mobile warp scramblers should not stop frigates from wrapping. I understand that blockade like things must exists to keep enemy fleets from entering a system or to give pirates an oportunity to look industrials or transport ships but it actually ruins the entire experience of a player who needs to go from a system to another as it cannot do it unless it have special equipment and skills. I will not stop playing the game but only until Black Prophecy releases. After that if Eve continues to be as rubbish in this regards, bye bye.
zakatai	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:19:00 - [2] lol
Lucias Trask Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:21:00 - [3] Learn the tricks. If youre going into 0.0 learn to deal, nano the ship, drop a bunch of odi's in and a warp stab and run like hell. If you get in a big bubble, hold your cloak, open the star map, set the previous system as destination, hit autopilot and mwd, you will jump without bumping off. And first and foremost. USE A SCOUT IN A NOOB SHIP!!!! [PANIC]
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:22:00 - [4] Crusader + Overdrive II's + 1mn MicroWarpDrive II = problem solved. They'll have you locked by the time you get out of the bubble, but you'll also be out of their scram range. It's really not very many skills, and it should take something to get through non-friendly 0.0 unphased. -----sig-starts-here------ Witty stuff goes here
Angel Yofiel	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:26:00 - [5] Yah yah I have seen all these tricks on google. I just think it does not make sense to require so much work. And there is no sense in allowing campers to catch frigates. What is the purpose of that? Originally by: Verx Interis Crusader + Overdrive II's + 1mn MicroWarpDrive II = problem solved. They'll have you locked by the time you get out of the bubble, but you'll also be out of their scram range. It's really not very many skills, and it should take something to get through non-friendly 0.0 unphased.
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:28:00 - [6] If you think it takes too much work, don't do there.
Rose Tyler	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Angel Yofiel Yah yah I have seen all these tricks on google. I just think it does not make sense to require so much work. And there is no sense in allowing campers to catch frigates. What is the purpose of that? Words fail me.
Lucias Trask Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:30:00 - [8] Originally by: Angel Yofiel Yah yah I have seen all these tricks on google. I just think it does not make sense to require so much work. And there is no sense in allowing campers to catch frigates. What is the purpose of that? Originally by: Verx Interis Crusader + Overdrive II's + 1mn MicroWarpDrive II = problem solved. They'll have you locked by the time you get out of the bubble, but you'll also be out of their scram range. It's really not very many skills, and it should take something to get through non-friendly 0.0 unphased. I run BPOs, Skillbooks and Implants in a stabbed out, cloaking taranis in and out of low sec to allow for our Alliance to jump them to our home system. When I promise same day delivery I will run the gauntlet myself. So if you had 3 bil in your cargo hold.. hell yeah I would shoot the living the hell out of you. also, its fun to shoot anyone, even frigates and noobships cause EVE players are spiteful angry creatures who enjoying a good explosion. [PANIC]
Angel Yofiel	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:32:00 - [9] I don't do. That's why I'm saying this. It this the only kind of answer you know how to throw? Originally by: MysticNZ If you think it takes too much work, don't do there.
Angel Yofiel	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:34:00 - [10] Hmmm yeah that's precisely what I felt. That's why I'm suggesting this change in the design so the spiteful spite on themselves. Originally by: Lucias Trask Originally by: Angel Yofiel Yah yah I have seen all these tricks on google. I just think it does not make sense to require so much work. And there is no sense in allowing campers to catch frigates. What is the purpose of that? Originally by: Verx Interis Crusader + Overdrive II's + 1mn MicroWarpDrive II = problem solved. They'll have you locked by the time you get out of the bubble, but you'll also be out of their scram range. It's really not very many skills, and it should take something to get through non-friendly 0.0 unphased. I run BPOs, Skillbooks and Implants in a stabbed out, cloaking taranis in and out of low sec to allow for our Alliance to jump them to our home system. When I promise same day delivery I will run the gauntlet myself. So if you had 3 bil in your cargo hold.. hell yeah I would shoot the living the hell out of you. also, its fun to shoot anyone, even frigates and noobships cause EVE players are spiteful angry creatures who enjoying a good explosion.
Kessiaan	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:34:00 - [11] Originally by: Rose Tyler Originally by: Angel Yofiel Yah yah I have seen all these tricks on google. I just think it does not make sense to require so much work. And there is no sense in allowing campers to catch frigates. What is the purpose of that? Words fail me. I would suggest, "It's called skill. You need to get some." ----- My in Eve Profile
Rose Tyler	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Kessiaan Originally by: Rose Tyler Originally by: Angel Yofiel Yah yah I have seen all these tricks on google. I just think it does not make sense to require so much work. And there is no sense in allowing campers to catch frigates. What is the purpose of that? Words fail me. I would suggest, "It's called skill. You need to get some." Thanks! Hey OP - It's called skill. You need to get some.
DasDizzy Terr0r F0rce Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:38:00 - [13] can i have your stuff OP In federate gallente, armor tanks YOU
Angel Yofiel	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:39:00 - [14] oh dear... you are so proud of knowing how to go through a gate camp! man! now words fail ME! Originally by: Kessiaan Originally by: Rose Tyler Originally by: Angel Yofiel Yah yah I have seen all these tricks on google. I just think it does not make sense to require so much work. And there is no sense in allowing campers to catch frigates. What is the purpose of that? Words fail me. I would suggest, "It's called skill. You need to get some."
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Angel Yofiel Originally by: MysticNZ If you think it takes too much work, don't do there. I don't do. That's why I'm saying this. It this the only kind of answer you know how to throw? That's the appropriate answer, the game isn't broken, you just aren't any good at it yet.
Ironnight Caldari x13	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Sara Silva The current gate camping mechanism ruins the entire game. I think mobile warp scramblers should not stop frigates from wrapping. I understand that blockade like things must exists to keep enemy fleets from entering a system or to give pirates an oportunity to look industrials or transport ships but it actually ruins the entire experience of a player who needs to go from a system to another as it cannot do it unless it have special equipment and skills. I will not stop playing the game but only until Black Prophecy releases. After that if Eve continues to be as rubbish in this regards, bye bye. bye bye have fun, can I have your stuff. The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Sara Silva The current gate camping mechanism ruins the entire game. I think mobile warp scramblers should not stop frigates from wrapping. I understand that blockade like things must exists to keep enemy fleets from entering a system or to give pirates an oportunity to look industrials or transport ships but it actually ruins the entire experience of a player who needs to go from a system to another as it cannot do it unless it have special equipment and skills. I will not stop playing the game but only until Black Prophecy releases. After that if Eve continues to be as rubbish in this regards, bye bye. next time use brain plox. --- planetary interaction idea!
Angel Yofiel	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:43:00 - [18] The question is not being good or that at it. The solution is given. Everybody knows it. I think it's a disgusting solution that does not bring a serious player satisfaction. Exactly the opposite, it keeps me from immersing in the experience I expect from it. The game is broken. It's not a good game yet. Originally by: Richard Phallus Originally by: Angel Yofiel Originally by: MysticNZ If you think it takes too much work, don't do there. I don't do. That's why I'm saying this. It this the only kind of answer you know how to throw? That's the appropriate answer, the game isn't broken, you just aren't any good at it yet.
Lucias Trask Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:43:00 - [19] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Sara Silva The current gate camping mechanism ruins the entire game. I think mobile warp scramblers should not stop frigates from wrapping. I understand that blockade like things must exists to keep enemy fleets from entering a system or to give pirates an oportunity to look industrials or transport ships but it actually ruins the entire experience of a player who needs to go from a system to another as it cannot do it unless it have special equipment and skills. I will not stop playing the game but only until Black Prophecy releases. After that if Eve continues to be as rubbish in this regards, bye bye. next time use brain plox. Grimpak owns... which one aam I talking to? Is it Grimpak or Grimpak? [PANIC]
Dron Yenko Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:43:00 - [20] Edited by: Dron Yenko on 25/12/2007 21:44:44 It's been said so many times in these forums that it hurts to repeat it again. But I am gonna go ahead and cause myself unnecessary pain by saying: GTFO/2WOW/URSTUFF? Nothing is easy in this game. But every problem has a solution. You want to run around lowsec/0.0 freely, yay for you, but people who control (or try to) that territory might want to beg to differ. Adapt and overcome. P.S. Trolling is bad mkay?. Originally by: Niklo Game to become is more and more similar to prison for not aggressive people.
Angel Yofiel	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:43:00 - [21] did you use your today yet? Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Sara Silva The current gate camping mechanism ruins the entire game. I think mobile warp scramblers should not stop frigates from wrapping. I understand that blockade like things must exists to keep enemy fleets from entering a system or to give pirates an oportunity to look industrials or transport ships but it actually ruins the entire experience of a player who needs to go from a system to another as it cannot do it unless it have special equipment and skills. I will not stop playing the game but only until Black Prophecy releases. After that if Eve continues to be as rubbish in this regards, bye bye. next time use brain plox.
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Angel Yofiel The question is not being good or that at it. The solution is given. Everybody knows it. I think it's a disgusting solution that does not bring a serious player satisfaction. Exactly the opposite, it keeps me from immersing in the experience I expect from it. The game is broken. It's not a good game yet. You think the game is broken, in reality you are broken, please quit the game and contract your stuff to me. Also quoted text goes above your reply because it's easier to read.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:45:00 - [23] The only thing broken here is the whiners. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:54:00 - [24] Originally by: SoftRevolution Is this a troll? It may be, Sara Silva started this, then a trolling alt seems to have taken over? Or may not be, I keep my expectations low.
Jimer Lins Gallente Pod Six Research	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:55:00 - [25] Gatecamps are so easy to avoid it's silly. Learn to use the tools you have available to you- the map shows average pilots in system, ship kills in the last hour, podkills in the last hour, and the same for the last 24 hours, and the number of jumps. Don't let your autopilot plan your route, it wants to kill you. Use Ombey's maps (ombeve.co.uk) or the star map to figure out less-traveled routes to and from your destination. Avoiding a camp or chokepoint can mean going 3 regions out of your way and 50 extra jumps. Balance that against losing your ship and fittings, and the extra time is almost always worth it. Gatecamps generally exist for one of 3 major reasons: 1. To blockade a sector of space. These are usually set up by 0.0 alliances or lowsec corps to protect claimed space. These are the most dedicated and hardest to get through- quite often large, with anchored bubbles and dictors and a well-organized gang. If you want to run one of these, bring your good balls. 2. To make ISK (or for cheap laughs). These are found everywhere but most often in lowsec, where the prey is often less likely to have useful teeth. Everything coming through dies but they won't chase you if you run the camp. Often less organized and smaller gangs, a large group of this type is moderately rare but not unheard of. The organized pirates tend to camp the same systems repeatedly because people never learn and they can make at least a decent income from ganking everything that comes through day after day (and they say mining's boring). And even if not, they still get to blow everything up. 3. To stop a specific person or problem- usually hastily set up and can vary in size depending on who's available. These will be set up quickly if you're spotted in local. Depending on how well organized and patient they are, you can find yourself in trouble or you could wave at them as you run the bubble. In all cases, it's my experience that it's better to avoid the camp than try to run it. If you have to run it, make sure you've got the ship and the skills to do it, as described above.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:59:00 - [26] If you're not even going to try to figure out ways around a problem, then I guess yes that problem will ruin your game. But in that case it's actually a good thing, and it should. When something as simple as a fast tech 1 frig, an mwd, a couple of inertial stabilizers and/or overdrive injectors, a cheap cloak, and the knowledge of how to use them correctly makes you near immune to most 0.0 gate camps (let alone low-sec, where all you really need is the tech 1 frig itself and that's it), you really have no right to whine.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:59:00 - [27] lol, red green is mater , love the sig man! oh, and all i'm saying to the op is "omggankageddon and warp to 15". you think things are rough now? had to go buy an assload of bookmarks off some shady guy w/ money you didn't have just to have a snowballs chance of making it through 0.0 used to get melted faster than you could say santa claus ------------------------------ of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most
Dron Yenko Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.25 22:00:00 - [28] This reminds me on Niklo, a russian carebear who called for nerfing nonconsentual pvp: "I do not wish to fight people and I, as a player, should have that ability." Niklo Originally by: Niklo Game to become is more and more similar to prison for not aggressive people.
Lucias Trask Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 22:06:00 - [29] Originally by: Hannobaal If you're not even going to try to figure out ways around a problem, then I guess yes that problem will ruin your game. But in that case it's actually a good thing, and it should. When something as simple as a fast tech 1 frig, an mwd, a couple of inertial stabilizers and/or overdrive injectors, a cheap cloak, and the knowledge of how to use them correctly makes you near immune to most 0.0 gate camps (let alone low-sec, where all you really need is the tech 1 frig itself and that's it), you really have no right to whine. Dis Goon is a smart Goon... you listen to him. [PANIC]
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 22:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Rose Tyler Originally by: Angel Yofiel Yah yah I have seen all these tricks on google. I just think it does not make sense to require so much work. And there is no sense in allowing campers to catch frigates. What is the purpose of that? Words fail me. Indeed. I hope this is a troll. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Poaster Boy Dafuzz Fan Club	Posted - 2007.12.25 23:38:00 - [31] Originally by: Angel Yofiel Yah yah I have seen all these tricks on google. I just think it does not make sense to require so much work. And there is no sense in allowing campers to catch frigates. What is the purpose of that? ZOMG!! It takes too much WORK. Omg!! CCP you need to change this right away! God forbid somebody has to put EFFORT into the game! This aint WoW, son, you actually have to put a little effort into this game if you want to get any results. If you don't like it, GTFO.
Vivian Archemides	Posted - 2007.12.25 23:42:00 - [32] Originally by: Poaster Boy Originally by: Angel Yofiel Yah yah I have seen all these tricks on google. I just think it does not make sense to require so much work. And there is no sense in allowing campers to catch frigates. What is the purpose of that? ZOMG!! It takes too much WORK. Omg!! CCP you need to change this right away! God forbid somebody has to put EFFORT into the game! This aint WoW, son, you actually have to put a little effort into this game if you want to get any results. If you don't like it, GTFO. How do I join DaFuzz's Fan Club?
Poaster Boy Dafuzz Fan Club	Posted - 2007.12.25 23:45:00 - [33] Edited by: Poaster Boy on 25/12/2007 23:45:18 Originally by: Vivian Archemides Originally by: Poaster Boy Originally by: Angel Yofiel Yah yah I have seen all these tricks on google. I just think it does not make sense to require so much work. And there is no sense in allowing campers to catch frigates. What is the purpose of that? ZOMG!! It takes too much WORK. Omg!! CCP you need to change this right away! God forbid somebody has to put EFFORT into the game! This aint WoW, son, you actually have to put a little effort into this game if you want to get any results. If you don't like it, GTFO. How do I join DaFuzz's Fan Club? Create a poasting alt and apply at Duripant. I'll accept you app when I get home from work.
Tellenta Gallente White-Noise Skunk-Works	Posted - 2007.12.25 23:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Sara Silva The current gate camping mechanism ruins the entire game. I think mobile warp scramblers should not stop frigates from wrapping. I understand that blockade like things must exists to keep enemy fleets from entering a system or to give pirates an oportunity to look industrials or transport ships but it actually ruins the entire experience of a player who needs to go from a system to another as it cannot do it unless it have special equipment and skills. I will not stop playing the game but only until Black Prophecy releases. After that if Eve continues to be as rubbish in this regards, bye bye. I'm pretty sure no one stops anyone from wrapping... other than that gate camps happen.. sometimes they don't scouting and fitting properly fixes that, unless your lazy like me and trust in dumb luck.
Sara Silva	Posted - 2007.12.25 23:46:00 - [35] I thought I would find reasonable people here but I see you are (with a few exceptions) mostly a bunch of trolls. By the descriptions I expected this to be an inteligent game to play but I see it's more like an a place for a bunch of frustrated males to spend some hormones. pity...
Lucias Trask Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 23:52:00 - [36] Originally by: Sara Silva I thought I would find reasonable people here but I see you are (with a few exceptions) mostly a bunch of trolls. By the descriptions I expected this to be an inteligent game to play but I see it's more like an a place for a bunch of frustrated males to spend some hormones. pity... You had multiple people post ways to overcome gate camps, but it looks like the majority agree that gate camps are part of the game and it takes the skill and desire to get around them. If you dont ever want to be gate camped stay in high sec, otherwise its a risk you will have to take. Seems pretty reasonable. It s ahell of a lot better than being trained and ganked by a bunch of stupid NPC's [PANIC]
Poaster Boy Dafuzz Fan Club	Posted - 2007.12.25 23:53:00 - [37] Edited by: Poaster Boy on 25/12/2007 23:53:51 Originally by: Sara Silva I thought I would find reasonable people here but I see you are (with a few exceptions) mostly a bunch of trolls. By the descriptions I expected this to be an inteligent game to play but I see it's more like an a place for a bunch of frustrated males to spend some hormones. pity... Not really...It's just that the Eve community has very little sympathy for people who whine on the forums that they got blown up. Everybody who has posted in this thread has at some point been blown up, mostly likely a couple of dozen times. 75% Adapt and Overcome (a popular Eve catch-phrase), maybe 20% quit, and the remaining 5% make a forum post to complain about it. That 5% will get trolled every single time. The Eve community as a whole absolutely HATES anything that can be perceived as a whine.
Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.25 23:56:00 - [38] Originally by: Sara Silva Tactually ruins the entire experience of a player who needs to go from a system to another as it cannot do it unless it have special equipment and skills. Welcome to EVE. Here everything is based upon skills and modules. Skilling for the modules needed for surviving a 0.0 gatecamp in a frigate shouldn't take more time than a week. There is also, almost, always the option to go around any camped system. And if you actually managed to get busted in a lowsec camp whilst flying a frigate... ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.12.25 23:59:00 - [39] heheheh - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Poaster Boy Dafuzz Fan Club	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:00:00 - [40] Originally by: Frug heheheh lol
Tellenta Gallente White-Noise Skunk-Works	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:02:00 - [41] Originally by: Kharadran Sullath Originally by: Sara Silva Tactually ruins the entire experience of a player who needs to go from a system to another as it cannot do it unless it have special equipment and skills. Welcome to EVE. Here everything is based upon skills and modules. Skilling for the modules needed for surviving a 0.0 gatecamp in a frigate shouldn't take more time than a week. There is also, almost, always the option to go around any camped system. And if you actually managed to get busted in a lowsec camp whilst flying a frigate... remote sensor boostahs ftw?? yes pls :)
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:09:00 - [42] Originally by: Angel Yofiel did you use your today yet? depends of wich one of us 6 are typing atm. --- planetary interaction idea!
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:15:00 - [43] Wow, this thread is so 2006. Really though, there is no point shooting frigates. Take for instance this Probe I am in, no weapons, just some stabilisers, a cyno generator and a hold full of stront. I'm not a threat to anyone. Retro-Troll Thread fails I'm afraid.
Parline Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.12.26 01:01:00 - [44] Me calls the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAbulance for the OP and gives her a 1 way ride back to WOW.
Zorger Perkone	Posted - 2007.12.26 01:09:00 - [45] I hate WoW for generating such a ppl.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.26 01:24:00 - [46] Camps are not the problem, gates are :) The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.26 01:28:00 - [47] where do you live, you are an easy target, gate camps are great you are terrible, such is eve/life
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2007.12.26 01:45:00 - [48] I'm not sure if you realized this yet, but EVE is a MMORPG focused on PVP. Do you think Black Prophecy won't have PVP if it intends to compete with EVE, or something? Maybe you're thinking it will compete with the dead and buried EnB? _______________________________ Complex Fullerene Shards; why God? :\|
Chasseur Aveugle	Posted - 2007.12.26 02:15:00 - [49] Originally by: Angel Yofiel The question is not being good or that at it. The solution is given. Everybody knows it. I think it's a disgusting solution that does not bring a serious player satisfaction. Exactly the opposite, it keeps me from immersing in the experience I expect from it. The game is broken. It's not a good game yet. Originally by: Richard Phallus Originally by: Angel Yofiel Originally by: MysticNZ If you think it takes too much work, don't do there. I don't do. That's why I'm saying this. It this the only kind of answer you know how to throw? That's the appropriate answer, the game isn't broken, you just aren't any good at it yet. The solution isn't given you either have to learn from experience or research it(ask a corp mate?/google), just like any other problem, and on what grounds is it disgusting? more people play this game to be "spiteful" than to be able to move around anywhere you want without dieing, its like saying WoW sucks because if ure level 20 in winterspring all the mobs will pull to you and kill you, unless u know how to kite/have friends with u/are really lucky/know where to run (solutions) Its just in wow you don't loose all your armor, so u don't give a flying donkey **** when you die because of your noobiness. And if you cant handle this fact, go and play aforementioned fantasy MMORPG with orcs/elves instead(probally on a PvE server). P.S. can i have your stuff?
Sarkkon	Posted - 2007.12.26 02:29:00 - [50] Nerf whiners are ruining the game. ALL of these NERF this and NERF tht threads seem based arround either ensuring the whiner has a way to escape all possible ganks. Or they want a way to make sure they can ALWAYS gank the 1 or 2 setups tht can get by them. BUBBLES are needed by those who live in 0.0. Alowing frigates and shuttles a free pass thru bubble will just allow enemies to frigate in and grab combat ships and cyno in fleets at will. another attempt at an "I WIN" button,
Jawas Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.26 04:07:00 - [51] Originally by: Poaster Boy ZOMG!! It takes too much WORK. Omg!! CCP you need to change this right away! God forbid somebody has to put EFFORT into the game! This aint WoW, son, you actually have to put a little effort into this game if you want to get any results. If you don't like it, GTFO. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Above is a basic cut/paste reponse that has no value. With speed nerfs on the way, most of the gatecamp running tactics will be killed off. The only way left will be the Covops. That means lots of skills to train and mega isk to pay out for the ship and cloak. Add to that, nowhere near enough insurance payout if you still don't make it through the gatecamp alive. -- Sig design in training: Remaining time 30 years 20 days, 4 hours, 10 mins, 15 seconds.
flung dung	Posted - 2007.12.26 04:20:00 - [52] TBH the op has a point in a small way, wouldnt we 0.0 dwellers like to see more action there, away from concord, eve for me has always been about risk vs reward and over the last year i've sen that main part of the game die away, lvl 4 mission in high sec who would of thought of it.... I would like to see more exit points opened from empire to 0.0 so 1. i dont have to get blue with every fecker in that region so i can have some 1 vs 1 like the old days, 2. the few exit points that are there, are so heavily camped most of the time its impossible for small corps, or single players to get through. 3. ccp have already stated they would like to see more small gangs, more people in 0.0 (i mean come on how many systems are wasted out there), having a large bubble, couple of huggins, bs's, recons and 1 0r 2 intys at there optimals as most gate camps have on them, is boring but also a hindernce for the "little guy". now im not saying nerf gate camps, if thats your thing waiting then so be it, but i would like to see more access points into 0.0
Caledric Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.26 07:10:00 - [53] EVE Vault Site Manager. Visit the EVE Vault Fansite
Atomos Darksun Damage Incorporated.	Posted - 2007.12.26 07:29:00 - [54] Originally by: Angel Yofiel The question is not being good or that at it. The solution is given. Everybody knows it. I think it's a disgusting solution that does not bring a serious player satisfaction. Exactly the opposite, it keeps me from immersing in the experience I expect from it. The game is broken. It's not a good game yet. Originally by: Richard Phallus Originally by: Angel Yofiel Originally by: MysticNZ If you think it takes too much work, don't do there. I don't do. That's why I'm saying this. It this the only kind of answer you know how to throw? That's the appropriate answer, the game isn't broken, you just aren't any good at it yet. Go back to WoW you spoiled brat. This game is meant to be the grittiest, warzone like game ever conceieved. If you don't like gate camps, go back to empire. The experience you're suppose to get from EVE is it's the grittiest, most warlike game ever conceived. It's not suppose to be filled with happy elves and dwarves, who will hold your hand and run through the rose gardens with you. In EVE, no one is your friend. -----
Whineroy	Posted - 2007.12.26 08:01:00 - [55] Originally by: Atomos Darksun Go back to WoW you spoiled brat. This game is meant to be the grittiest, warzone like game ever conceieved. If you don't like gate camps, go back to empire. The experience you're suppose to get from EVE is it's the grittiest, most warlike game ever conceived. It's not suppose to be filled with happy elves and dwarves, who will hold your hand and run through the rose gardens with you. In EVE, no one is your friend. And go back to Counter-Strike, you killmail-hunting little loser. I'm sorry, I forgot, PvP at CS involves real skill and not doing 10-on-1 gatecamps, using 40m SP+ pilots to gank newbies and similar. Well, perhaps you could find a server that allows aimbots so that you could satiate your sad little power fantasies. Get rid of mothership-gatecamping bed wetters and similar if you want to get rid of real wimps at Eve.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.26 08:27:00 - [56] Originally by: Sara Silva The current gate camping mechanism ruins the entire game. I think mobile warp scramblers should not stop frigates from wrapping. I understand that blockade like things must exists to keep enemy fleets from entering a system or to give pirates an oportunity to look industrials or transport ships but it actually ruins the entire experience of a player who needs to go from a system to another as it cannot do it unless it have special equipment and skills. I will not stop playing the game but only until Black Prophecy releases. After that if Eve continues to be as rubbish in this regards, bye bye. http://www.agony-unleashed.com Go learn why you are so horribly wrong. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Commander 598 Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.26 08:49:00 - [57] Hrm... Question: How would the option to warp (Or some other form of ftl requiring a module that would really only fit well on certain ships) to and/or around locations (With the added catch of having to come out of warp when you hit the edge of a system and the still functional warp bubbles) rather than be forced use the instant transport gates work? People would still use gates because they don't want to spend X amount of time (3 AU/sec between systems of varying distance would take awhile I imagine...) traveling between systems the slow way but those unconcerned about time would have a lot less reason to whine. An Industrial would be probably be sacrificing a lot of defensive ability to mount such a module... It could eat such massive chunks of CPU and power to use that it would make mounting anything else of any significance impossible. As I currently stand, lowsec gate campers aren't causing me any MASSIVE setbacks so much as they are causing MASSIVE annoyances that I just don't feel like putting forth the effort to deal with...I'm also quite fond of situations that allow me to take bathroom breaks and make a visit to the fridge.
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.12.26 09:20:00 - [58] I love this thread. I love you OP, and I love you, Angel Yofiel. You guys are awesome. I'm going to check out your other posts too. This is comedy gold!
Sara Silva	Posted - 2007.12.26 10:47:00 - [59] lol... finally some reasonable soul! Originally by: Whineroy Originally by: Atomos Darksun Go back to WoW you spoiled brat. This game is meant to be the grittiest, warzone like game ever conceieved. If you don't like gate camps, go back to empire. The experience you're suppose to get from EVE is it's the grittiest, most warlike game ever conceived. It's not suppose to be filled with happy elves and dwarves, who will hold your hand and run through the rose gardens with you. In EVE, no one is your friend. And go back to Counter-Strike, you killmail-hunting little loser. I'm sorry, I forgot, PvP at CS involves real skill and not doing 10-on-1 gatecamps, using 40m SP+ pilots to gank newbies and similar. Well, perhaps you could find a server that allows aimbots so that you could satiate your sad little power fantasies. Get rid of mothership-gatecamping bed wetters and similar if you want to get rid of real wimps at Eve.
Angel Yofiel	Posted - 2007.12.26 10:52:00 - [60] Why do you prefer to answer with a link to thirdy part articles? Don't you have an opinion on your own? Gate campings ruins all the game. It's a design problem that CCP keeps for the joy of a minority that inhabit that space. Unfortunately, it keeps the great part of the players, veterans and rookies alike from enjoying the game at it's full potential. In my opinion at least shuttles should be imune to warp scramblers. Originally by: Rells Originally by: Sara Silva The current gate camping mechanism ruins the entire game. I think mobile warp scramblers should not stop frigates from wrapping. I understand that blockade like things must exists to keep enemy fleets from entering a system or to give pirates an oportunity to look industrials or transport ships but it actually ruins the entire experience of a player who needs to go from a system to another as it cannot do it unless it have special equipment and skills. I will not stop playing the game but only until Black Prophecy releases. After that if Eve continues to be as rubbish in this regards, bye bye. http://www.agony-unleashed.com Go learn why you are so horribly wrong.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:07:00 - [61] Originally by: Angel Yofiel Why do you prefer to answer with a link to thirdy part articles? Don't you have an opinion on your own? Gate campings ruins all the game. It's a design problem that CCP keeps for the joy of a minority that inhabit that space. Unfortunately, it keeps the great part of the players, veterans and rookies alike from enjoying the game at it's full potential. In my opinion at least shuttles should be imune to warp scramblers. Originally by: Rells Originally by: Sara Silva The current gate camping mechanism ruins the entire game. I think mobile warp scramblers should not stop frigates from wrapping. I understand that blockade like things must exists to keep enemy fleets from entering a system or to give pirates an oportunity to look industrials or transport ships but it actually ruins the entire experience of a player who needs to go from a system to another as it cannot do it unless it have special equipment and skills. I will not stop playing the game but only until Black Prophecy releases. After that if Eve continues to be as rubbish in this regards, bye bye. http://www.agony-unleashed.com Go learn why you are so horribly wrong. Rells of Agony Unleashed just gave you the link to the Agony Unleashed website. I am sure you will find many of his own opinions there. You failed to see the link, you failed to check out free advice before mouthing off. That is why you are a failure.
Kransthow AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:08:00 - [62] Originally by: Angel Yofiel Gate campings ruins all the game How?
Max Godsnottlingson Amarr Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:12:00 - [63] Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson on 26/12/2007 11:13:59 Even as a carebear, though a carebear with teeth Max gives a long sigh at the OP You know, we see there threads all too often. What it actually boils down to is the following statement. "I want to play Eve on my own and not have those nasty gangs of pirates gank me!" The one thing the Carebear community seem to fail to accept, and in many cases don't want to accept is that; As well as being a PvP game Eve is about TEAMWORK. Player pirates fully understand that, that's why you let them win. Think of your original complaint. That bubble camp will need one guy to drop the bubble, another one or two to make sure that you stay locked down, while the shooters pop your ship. It's called teamwork. Gate camps can be easily avoided if you work in a team, and if you work in a half decent sized team can be beaten too, even if it's just a soft kill by driving them off the gate. 90% of *****ing about pirates simply boils down to people wanting to do things on their own, and then getting pi....'annoyed' when people playing the game as it was envisaged beat the crap out of them. Why so many people insist on tyring to play Eve as a solo game I don't know. But even for us Carebears, ganging together makes for a much better game, and much more fun for everybody
Exsalisis eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:47:00 - [64] Originally by: Hannobaal When something as simple as a fast tech 1 frig, an mwd, a couple of inertial stabilizers and/or overdrive injectors, a cheap cloak, and the knowledge of how to use them correctly makes you near immune to most 0.0 gate camps (let alone low-sec, where all you really need is the tech 1 frig itself and that's it), you really have no right to whine. I wish that was totally true.. :( Week ago or so I took my brand new Daredevil through lowsec as a shortcut to my destination. I thought zomg I'll never get killed. What do I know? Warped to a gate, before I had completely dropped out of warp, a Rokh smartbombed me.. Bye lil Daredevil.. Nice knowing you. Submitted a petition, but CCP said they can't get anything conclusive from the logs, so too bad for me.. I have to agree that except when weird stuff like this happen it's really pretty easy to travel safely through lowsec and 0.0..
Xiarem Amarr The Ghost Works	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:58:00 - [65] Why don't you just scout ahead? I managed to lose my Maller the other day because I was lazy and couldn't be arsed going through with a shuttle to see what was on the other side of the gate. Jumped through and found myself facing a T2 battlecruiser and was promptly killed. In hindsight I should have just logged off but it was about 3am in the morning and I wasn't thinking straight. Luckliy I had my ship insured and spare modules lying around so I was able to get another Maller fitted quickly. Now I always scout ahead in a shuttle when going into lowsec. . "Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!"
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2007.12.26 12:12:00 - [66] I just cant stop smiling at the carebear tears that fill threads like this, each and every one is a gem.
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.26 12:39:00 - [67] Considering that 378% of us spend our entire lives in hisec, and of those that don't, some are involved in gatecamping, and for those that aren't some never even see a gatecamp, and for those that do some know how to deal with it. So how many people is this really ruining the game for? Eleven? ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.26 12:51:00 - [68] Originally by: Exsalisis Originally by: Hannobaal When something as simple as a fast tech 1 frig, an mwd, a couple of inertial stabilizers and/or overdrive injectors, a cheap cloak, and the knowledge of how to use them correctly makes you near immune to most 0.0 gate camps (let alone low-sec, where all you really need is the tech 1 frig itself and that's it), you really have no right to whine. I wish that was totally true.. :( Week ago or so I took my brand new Daredevil through lowsec as a shortcut to my destination. I thought zomg I'll never get killed. What do I know? Warped to a gate, before I had completely dropped out of warp, a Rokh smartbombed me.. Bye lil Daredevil.. Nice knowing you. Submitted a petition, but CCP said they can't get anything conclusive from the logs, so too bad for me.. I have to agree that except when weird stuff like this happen it's really pretty easy to travel safely through lowsec and 0.0.. Hehe, yeah that will happen. Smartbombing is the exception. Although, in my experience, it's not very common. Personally, I've only been smartbombed on a gate by Miz's Nyx while traveling in a pod, and that was only once. Also, even that can be avoided if you're extra paranoid. Granted, when I run through low-sec in a smaller ship I always just go straight through without caring about what may be on the next gate, so I would definitely lose my ship if I ran into a smartbombing battleship. A tanked assault ship would get through though unless it's a carrier or mothership smartbombing.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.26 12:56:00 - [69] open map -> show ships/pods destroyed in the last hour. if you see this big red blip, go arround. --- planetary interaction idea!
Angel Yofiel	Posted - 2007.12.26 13:15:00 - [70] You seems to be quite familiar with this word. This tells a lot about what you are out of the game. Originally by: Telemicus Thrace You failed to see the link, you failed to check out free advice before mouthing off. That is why you are a failure.
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2007.12.26 15:26:00 - [71] Originally by: Angel Yofiel Originally by: Telemicus Thrace You failed to see the link, you failed to check out free advice before mouthing off. That is why you are a failure. You seems to be quite familiar with this word. This tells a lot about what you are out of the game. Creating a whine thread at the first sign of a tiny challenge, ignoring all the advice you were given, adopting a childish attitude and finally resorting to personal attacks after your argument fails. This says a lot more about YOU out of the game tbqfh
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2007.12.26 15:30:00 - [72] Alot of people haven't figured out yet that people aren't shooting you because they are jerks, they just like shooting things. Who you are and you're gametime are immaterial. 95% of the time, it's not personal, it's just that you're there. I may be speaking for myself here, but I doubt it ... Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ... General Aesthetics Changes Thread
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.26 15:39:00 - [73] Posting in a fail thread. - DesuSigs
Profhet NYIT Gangstaz SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 15:41:00 - [74] hmmm ____________________________ FEED ON THE DYING
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.26 15:43:00 - [75] Is it more fun to hunt targets and be active, or is it more fun to sit at a gate and be passive? The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Lucias Trask Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 16:15:00 - [76] Originally by: Franga Alot of people haven't figured out yet that people aren't shooting you because they are jerks, they just like shooting things. Who you are and you're gametime are immaterial. 95% of the time, it's not personal, it's just that you're there. I may be speaking for myself here, but I doubt it ... ^^^^ THIS!!! I shoot everyone all the time. I love ganking noobs and haulers too [PANIC]
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.26 16:26:00 - [77] I'll toss in my 2 cents.. Gatecamping doesn't really 'ruin the game' for me, but it is an annoyance. I see many people defending it by saying 'You just need better skills' or 'Lowsec space has to have a way to keep unwanted people out of it'. For one, jumping from a .5 to .4 system is not always 'invading lowsed space'. Often it's just 'moving through ES'. If the folks who think they 'own' a particular area of space want to defend it, I have no problem with that at all. But camping in a .4 isn't 'defending' anything, it's pirating. And if the best you can do is to 'own' a .4 system, all I can do is laugh at you. For those who continually retort with 'you need better skills', I'll just say that a 40 against 1 battle doesn't require much skill at all. It's an instapop for many ships and no amount of skills is going to allow you to survive. I am not complaining. In fact, I lost a bustard just after patch day to a gate camp (yes, I checked my map and have the skills and the ship was fitted with wcs and so on). The ONLY thing that I dont like about campers is the podding. Ok, if you want to gank ships with your massive fleet, feel free to do so. But after you've blown up my ship, stolen my cargo and had your fun - why is it neccessary to podkill me as well? Sure, it's a free trip back to my home station so I dont have to fly there in a pod - but there go all my implants. If it were 'me' running things (thankfully I'm not), I'd make it so you can't podkill someone unless you're at war with them. (here will come the folks saying 'then people can infiltrate 0.0 too easily cuz we cant stop them from flying a pod in, buying a ship, then taking over our space!.. ok.. if you cant defend the space you claim you 'own', then you dont really 'own' it do you?) For the naysayers, explain this one to me: If it is so easy to get away from a gatecamp with the right skills/setup, then even though a POD is sooo hard to target - and sooo quick to warp out of an area - how can gatecampers manage to podkill? I can understand if the pilot was AFK during a flight (dumb), but when the campers have enough ships on hand and can torch your pod before it can warp out, there's something to consider. When I went into that camp I was in a fully gatecrashing set up bustard. It was empty, cuz I was on my way TO a pickup, not coming back from one. I emerged from the gate jump, would swear I was target locked before my ship even decloaked (was taking hits to my shield before I could see my own ship on the screen), was warped, torped and podkilled before my first shot could even be fired. My overview was filled to the rim with ships that were targeting me, so the camp was pretty large. No, I didn't send a scout. I was headed through ES and (my fault) had just changed to the new EvE client by doing a complete reinstall. I forgot to change my autopilot settings to 'safest' and didn't really worry much about the 1 or 2 -.5 systems I had to go through. The podkilling, however, is uncalled for - bad form - and just lazy gaming. Want my ship's goods? Fine, set up a camp. Want to blow up ships for fun? Fine, set up a camp. Want to hold people for ransom? Fine, set upa camp. But dont podkill pilots that you aren't at war with. It's not like their implants are gonna be floating in a can next to their corpse in space. Personally, I think gatecamping should be kept to 0.0.. cuz if you're really defending your territory - you should probably be IN your territory. But pirates have to eat too :)
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.26 16:45:00 - [78] Originally by: Titen The podkilling, however, is uncalled for - bad form - and just lazy gaming. OP says frigates should be immune to gatecamps, you say pods should be. Same attitude, just with the line drawn in a different place. - DesuSigs
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2007.12.26 16:53:00 - [79] Originally by: Titen The podkilling, however, is uncalled for - bad form - and just lazy gaming. Don't really need your permission to do anything tbh. And you say it is lazy gaming, but previously admit that you couldn't be bothered to scout the gate Originally by: Titen And if the best you can do is to 'own' a .4 system, all I can do is laugh at you. Well why aren't you laughing then..you sound quite angry
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.26 16:54:00 - [80] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Titen The podkilling, however, is uncalled for - bad form - and just lazy gaming. OP says frigates should be immune to gatecamps, you say pods should be. Same attitude, just with the line drawn in a different place. If you think a frig (or any other ship) being destroyed is equivalent to a podkill which causes implants to be lost, you must not use said implants and therefore are not using your brain to it's fullest potential (which is apparent from your response). Drawing the line in a different place would be in the other direction, like "Not just frigs, but anything that isn't either a BS or T2 ship should be immune to gatecamps". Blow frigs up all day for all I care, blow up all the ships you want cuz you want their goodies, but the podding is lame cuz there are no 'goodies' (unless you collect corpses).
OOOSOOO Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.12.26 16:56:00 - [81] hiccup
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:06:00 - [82] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 26/12/2007 17:06:54 Originally by: Titen If you think a frig (or any other ship) being destroyed is equivalent to a podkill which causes implants to be lost, you must not use said implants and therefore are not using your brain to it's fullest potential (which is apparent from your response). Wow, that was actually pretty witty. Originally by: Titen Drawing the line in a different place would be in the other direction, like "Not just frigs, but anything that isn't either a BS or T2 ship should be immune to gatecamps". Blow frigs up all day for all I care, blow up all the ships you want cuz you want their goodies, but the podding is lame cuz there are no 'goodies' (unless you collect corpses). 1. Drawing the line in a different place counts for either direction. 2. You think there are many 'goodies' to be had from frig kills? 3. If I gatecamped, I'd sure as hell collect the corpses. That might just be me though. - DesuSigs
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:14:00 - [83] Ok.. maybe the better way to try to make my point is to ask it as a question. What would be the problem/drawback to making podkills something that can only be accomplished when the targeting pilot is at war with the pilot targeted for podkilling? I see that the responses to my inquiry have been focused on the pod ship itself and not the 'podding' of a pilot - so maybe asking that question will make my intended comment more understandable.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:21:00 - [84] Why should your pod get any more protection than your ship? Not to mention, how would you accomplish this? A message that pops up? "You are unable to lock that target as podkilling people you aren't at war with isn't very nice" - DesuSigs
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:24:00 - [85] Originally by: Crumplecorn Why should your pod get any more protection than your ship? Not to mention, how would you accomplish this? A message that pops up? "You are unable to lock that target as podkilling people you aren't at war with isn't very nice" So this is your answer? Basically saying 'the drawback to the idea is that your pod would get more protection than your ship'? Why is that a drawback? Can a pod turn around and shoot back? Can a pod grab anything from any cans that might be floating around? Can a pod do anything but fly away? Sorry, I dont see your point.
Xiarem Amarr The Ghost Works	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:25:00 - [86] Originally by: Titen Ok.. maybe the better way to try to make my point is to ask it as a question. What would be the problem/drawback to making podkills something that can only be accomplished when the targeting pilot is at war with the pilot targeted for podkilling? I see that the responses to my inquiry have been focused on the pod ship itself and not the 'podding' of a pilot - so maybe asking that question will make my intended comment more understandable. Adding restrictions to the game to improve the gameplay for part of the playerbase will in the end lead to discontent and generate friction. The more freedom a player has the more accountable they are for their actions and to me that is a good thing. If you choose to go into lowsec without scouting ahead you have nobody to blame apart from yourself if you get podded and pod killed. . "Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!"
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:28:00 - [87] Edited by: Drizit on 26/12/2007 17:29:40 Originally by: Titen For the naysayers, explain this one to me: If it is so easy to get away from a gatecamp with the right skills/setup, then even though a POD is sooo hard to target - and sooo quick to warp out of an area - how can gatecampers manage to podkill? In a word - Lag. Large gang plus drones etc causes lag which is why they go large. Jetcan spamming is a bannable offence now so the only way to create lag is to use a large team. Gatecamping is lame enough but doing it in a large group so as to deliberately create lag is absurd. They are not affected since everything is already loaded and need only load the data for the ship jumping in but anyone jumping through has to wait for all the data for ships camping the gate to upload to their client. Edit: Repeating myself. --
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:31:00 - [88] Originally by: Titen Originally by: Crumplecorn Why should your pod get any more protection than your ship? Not to mention, how would you accomplish this? A message that pops up? "You are unable to lock that target as podkilling people you aren't at war with isn't very nice" So this is your answer? Basically saying 'the drawback to the idea is that your pod would get more protection than your ship'? Why is that a drawback? Can a pod turn around and shoot back? Can a pod grab anything from any cans that might be floating around? Can a pod do anything but fly away? Sorry, I dont see your point. I'm not trying to say that there is any drawback (though there is). I'm just wondering why this idea should even be considered. You want the game to deny people the ability to kill pods in certain circumstances, just because you don't like getting podkilled, and you don't see any reason to do it. - DesuSigs
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:39:00 - [89] Yeah, lag is a major factor in the kill, that's for sure. It's kind of hard to put into words what I'm actually trying to figure out. When I consider the facts, other than in a 'war' situation, there is no real reason to podkill anyone - nor is there a reason to be able to podkill anyone. A pod can't fight back. A pod doesn't jettison cargo. A pod can't assist a fleet in any way (other than being another target on the screen). There is no tactical, industrial or economical advantage to podkilling someone you are not at war with (or, at least, no advantages have been suggested here that fit the bill). Podkills on an enemy you are at war with has it's advantages. It sends that enemy to wherever their clone is (hopefully far away from you). It can destroy implants, making the enemy less effective on the battlefield and/or at skill training. It assists in lowering the moral of the enemy, and raising the moral of your own pilots. But if you are not at war and are just pirating or protecting your territory, there is no advantage to podkilling your target. So, in any case other than podkilling a war-related enemy, the only reason that I can come up with for doing it is 'because I can' which, in itself, is pretty rediculous.
Jakus Ikmonar	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:56:00 - [90] Originally by: Titen But if you are not at war and are just pirating or protecting your territory, there is no advantage to podkilling your target. So, in any case other than podkilling a war-related enemy, the only reason that I can come up with for doing it is 'because I can' which, in itself, is pretty rediculous. Implants. You pod someone with a head full of expensive implants he's going to be a bit more cautious nextime
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:59:00 - [91] So the direction you are coming from is, we should start off unable to do anything, and then add only things which we have a specific reason to be able to do? As opposed to starting off able to do anything, and only restricting people when necessary? Fail approach fails. There is no good reason to restrict the shooting of pods, so it should not be restricted. - DesuSigs
Hul'ka Minmatar BALKAN EXPRESS	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:04:00 - [92] Here’s a couple: 1.BOOM! HEADSHOT! 2.pleasure, my own personal 3.BOOM! HEADSHOT! 4.you didn’t want to pay the ransom.. 5.BOOM! HEADSHOT! 6.I really, really want to be flashy red -10 pirate. Can I? oh can I good sire? And it’s not ridiculous… There are people.. who think different than you do.. they also enjoy different things than you do… They earn they isk in different ways than you do… They are… different… And thank God there is a game on the market that gives so many different people a place to play together… Don’t you think that’s wonderfull? Don’t you….? /me wipes a tear --------- I want to phew phew
Skjorta	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:05:00 - [93] you guys got loltrolled.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:09:00 - [94] Originally by: Titen Yeah, lag is a major factor in the kill, that's for sure. It's kind of hard to put into words what I'm actually trying to figure out. When I consider the facts, other than in a 'war' situation, there is no real reason to podkill anyone - nor is there a reason to be able to podkill anyone. A pod can't fight back. A pod doesn't jettison cargo. A pod can't assist a fleet in any way (other than being another target on the screen). There is no tactical, industrial or economical advantage to podkilling someone you are not at war with (or, at least, no advantages have been suggested here that fit the bill). Podkills on an enemy you are at war with has it's advantages. It sends that enemy to wherever their clone is (hopefully far away from you). It can destroy implants, making the enemy less effective on the battlefield and/or at skill training. It assists in lowering the moral of the enemy, and raising the moral of your own pilots. But if you are not at war and are just pirating or protecting your territory, there is no advantage to podkilling your target. So, in any case other than podkilling a war-related enemy, the only reason that I can come up with for doing it is 'because I can' which, in itself, is pretty rediculous. One big advantage for pirates: getting the victim out of the system and far away so he can't warn the next victim. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Willow Whisp Sadist Faction	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:13:00 - [95] Edited by: Willow Whisp on 26/12/2007 18:13:36 Originally by: Titen When I consider the facts, other than in a 'war' situation, there is no real reason to podkill anyone - nor is there a reason to be able to podkill anyone. Tons of reasons. To hear the squish, to remove a hostile feeding info from the vicinity, to stop hearing the smacktalk in local, to cause them further economic harm in case they have implants Quote: A pod can't fight back. A pod doesn't jettison cargo. A pod can't assist a fleet in any way (other than being another target on the screen). A pod can observe enemy movements. A pod can position itself in such a way to provide a warp-in point to a potential enemy fleet. A pod can smacktalk in local until your eyes bleed. A pod can try and get in the way of aligning a ship. Quote: There is no tactical, industrial or economical advantage to podkilling someone you are not at war with (or, at least, no advantages have been suggested here that fit the bill). You don't have to be legally at war in empire to cause economic harm on a target. You don't have to be legally at war in empire to wish economic harm on an individual or corporation, you don't have to be at war with someone to note that a pod being able to observe the field of battle at leisure is not a tactical advantage. Hell, we sometimes specifically target the pods of known fleet commanders to wreak havoc on the enemy leadership structure. To say there is no tactical, industrial or economic advantage to podkill someone is to be grossly unaware of all the factors that a single neutral or otherwise party can have in the field of battle. Quote: Podkills on an enemy you are at war with has it's advantages. It sends that enemy to wherever their clone is (hopefully far away from you). It can destroy implants, making the enemy less effective on the battlefield and/or at skill training. It assists in lowering the moral of the enemy, and raising the moral of your own pilots. You don't have to be at war with anyone to see this advantages on ANY target. Quote: But if you are not at war and are just pirating or protecting your territory, there is no advantage to podkilling your target. In your opinion. As shown above, however, this isn't the case. Quote: So, in any case other than podkilling a war-related enemy, the only reason that I can come up with for doing it is 'because I can' which, in itself, is pretty rediculous. You have a small imagination, then. And "Because I can" in eve is reason enough, on top of the other reasons stated. -- Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes ^^ Woo hoo! Yellow Text!... wait... :(
Neon Genesis The Landed Gentry	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:14:00 - [96] Originally by: Titen Yeah, lag is a major factor in the kill, that's for sure. It's kind of hard to put into words what I'm actually trying to figure out. When I consider the facts, other than in a 'war' situation, there is no real reason to podkill anyone - nor is there a reason to be able to podkill anyone. A pod can't fight back. A pod doesn't jettison cargo. A pod can't assist a fleet in any way (other than being another target on the screen). There is no tactical, industrial or economical advantage to podkilling someone you are not at war with (or, at least, no advantages have been suggested here that fit the bill). Podkills on an enemy you are at war with has it's advantages. It sends that enemy to wherever their clone is (hopefully far away from you). It can destroy implants, making the enemy less effective on the battlefield and/or at skill training. It assists in lowering the moral of the enemy, and raising the moral of your own pilots. But if you are not at war and are just pirating or protecting your territory, there is no advantage to podkilling your target. So, in any case other than podkilling a war-related enemy, the only reason that I can come up with for doing it is 'because I can' which, in itself, is pretty rediculous. It's important that we're free to be mean spirited and violent, or charitable. The question you have to ask yourself is why should I not be allowed to kill your valuable pod out of spite when there is no law ennforcement around to stop me. _
Sarkkon	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:16:00 - [97] Many times i curse myself for being in a mission ship with 'precious' mods, or a shuttle when i see some Pod on AUTOPILOT with a 40mil plus bounty lazily cruising thru lonetrek. Protecting these Idiots by making it harder for me to take a 200k loss ona chep ship to collect that tasty bounty is just more sad and pathetic whining. They griefed to get that bounty, and you would protect them.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:18:00 - [98] Quote: But dont podkill pilots that you aren't at war with. It's not like their implants are gonna be floating in a can next to their corpse in space. adds flavor to the game. e.g. Vlad Dracul marked his territorial borders with peoples heads on spikes. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:26:00 - [99] Finally. Ok, so 'pilot would not pay the ransom request' is a viable reason for podkills. But in all the scenario's I've discussed podkilling - 'ransom' never entered into it. When I got ganked, there was no request for ransom - just BOOM HEADSHOT! and that was all. Thus, 'because I can' remains the evident majority stockholder in the reasoning behind podkilling outside of war. When the patch first came around I read that there were problems with POS's not being able to defend themselves properly. Was 'because I can' an acceptable reason for pilots to go ahead and blow them up anyway? I'm not saying that podkilling is an exploit.. so dont go there.. I just couldn't come up with another example. "Because I Can" holds zero value. There is exactly 'None' listed in the benefit category to podkilling someone you are not at war with. And, if 'ransom' is the factor involved.. then it begs the question - what mechanism is so great that a pilot in a pod is incapable of warping away while the 'ransom request' is being typed into local chat? If there's a way to keep a pod held so tightly that it can't run away during negociations, then the pods are either too vulnerable or the mechanisms with which to freeze one in space are too powerful. Pod VS Blob wars.. there's a fine bunch of fun. I think that blowing up the persons ship is 'message' enough that the pilots in the area dont want visitors. Taking out the pod as well is just lame. Those who like it think of it as icing on the cake. So.. if podkills to non-enemy combatants (or non-combatants) is so great, why stop there? Why not make a kill a KILL. Your toon gets reverted back to zero skillpoints in a noob station. After all, you died right? The reason for having that particular 'effect' in the game is as sound and reasonable as allowing podkills to non-warring targets. "Because I Can". Other than 'ransom', I have yet to see any answers other than the typical 'you are just a whiner' come forth. I would have expected there to be many more intelligent and reasonable responses come out, since podkilling at gatecamps is such a 'can do' thing. And yes, I understand that other people play the game for other reasons - and find their tactics and/or gameplay enhanced because of the ability to podkill non-warring pilots.. but I still haven't seen any explanation as to the actual benefits of such activity. For those who said I sounded 'angry'.. I'm not. I'm more curious than anything. I've got plenty of ships, and there's always more implants out there, so it's not like I'm whining about a loss. If I were angry or terribly frustrated, I would say: It's amazing how great and mighty a single pilot deems themself when they've got an entire fleet of wannabees camping a gate. One on one PVP doesn't exist any more I guess. But I suppose the carebears have to have a way to get one-up on an experienced pilot. And that's fair :) So, to those who gatecamp NOT for territory domination, but do it just because the only way they can dream of getting a real kill is to band together with as many losers as possible and shoot down solitary pilots, I hope your real life doesn't reflect upon your game life. If it does, I hope 'Would you like fries with that?' is a phrase you cherish. /end sarcasm
Kurtis Lowe	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:33:00 - [100] bubbles ? wooptydoo, fit a vigil w/ t2 1mn MWD, 2x overdrive II's and a Nanofiber Inertial II and laugh as you whiz thru gate camps 5kms + depending on your skills.
Commander 598 Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:39:00 - [101] Originally by: Sharupak Quote: But dont podkill pilots that you aren't at war with. It's not like their implants are gonna be floating in a can next to their corpse in space. adds flavor to the game. e.g. Vlad Dracul marked his territorial borders with peoples heads on spikes. Yeah well Vlad Dracul wasn't claiming a tiny mostly unvisited pocket of land IN the Ottoman Empire as his territory either...
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:43:00 - [102] Originally by: Commander 598 Originally by: Sharupak Quote: But dont podkill pilots that you aren't at war with. It's not like their implants are gonna be floating in a can next to their corpse in space. adds flavor to the game. e.g. Vlad Dracul marked his territorial borders with peoples heads on spikes. Yeah well Vlad Dracul wasn't claiming a tiny mostly unvisited pocket of land IN the Ottoman Empire as his territory either... what does that have to do with disembowelment? Leaders of nations have been ****heads since time began and they will continue to be. Why would eve be any different? _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Regat Kozovv Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:47:00 - [103] Originally by: Sara Silva The current gate camping mechanism ruins the entire game. Seriously. Stay in Empire. And if you still find gate camps unbearable, by all means, go play Black Prophecy or whatever. Everyone here finds gate camps frustrating, and we all participate in them one way or another. Chokepoints are always going to be present, and naturally that's where kills are going to try to be made. It happens in other games and it's no different in EVE. ...and while you may thing that we're all "trolling" and being "immature", you'll find that the players here spend their time discussing how to best deal with gate camps, as they many strategies here have suggested. They don't fill the forums with whining threads "threatening" to leave EVE to go play some other game. This isn't some universe where we're racing to hit that 10 million player mark. We're not trying to cater to every type of player's desires. You either get used to this style, or find something else that entertains you more.
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:50:00 - [104] The Vlad reference, though funny, is self defeating. Vlad put heads on pikes at the borders to warn off potential enemy travellers, true. But where does that reference have a position with gatecamps? I dont recall any mechanism in the game that allows corps/groups who are intent on territorial domination put anything in space that.. oh.. WAIT! Yes there is isn't there? If you want to use the head-on-a-stick warning reference, then I would suppose putting up a can just outside of a protected area that says "The following system is owned, operated and protected by XXXXX - enter here and die" would be a fair equivalent, would it not? But no.. the campers dont do that do they? Vlad Reference = Fail Next?
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:57:00 - [105] Originally by: Titen The Vlad reference, though funny, is self defeating. Vlad put heads on pikes at the borders to warn off potential enemy travellers, true. But where does that reference have a position with gatecamps? I dont recall any mechanism in the game that allows corps/groups who are intent on territorial domination put anything in space that.. oh.. WAIT! Yes there is isn't there? If you want to use the head-on-a-stick warning reference, then I would suppose putting up a can just outside of a protected area that says "The following system is owned, operated and protected by XXXXX - enter here and die" would be a fair equivalent, would it not? But no.. the campers dont do that do they? Vlad Reference = Fail Next? Ok, good point. For gatecamps, I would go with WW2 uboat wolf packs ganking allied convoys. Beat that! _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:02:00 - [106] Originally by: Titen For the naysayers, explain this one to me: If it is so easy to get away from a gatecamp with the right skills/setup, then even though a POD is sooo hard to target - and sooo quick to warp out of an area - how can gatecampers manage to podkill? Smartbombs. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:04:00 - [107] to the question "why pod the poor sod?" I will give the simple answer: because I can. --- planetary interaction idea!
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:16:00 - [108] Originally by: Titen long post Its amazing that in such a long post you still haven't managed to justify your suggestion. As I have pointed out before, you are advocating the restriction of an activity with no more justification than you don't think it should be done. - DesuSigs
Willow Whisp Sadist Faction	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:16:00 - [109] Originally by: Titen Other than 'ransom', I have yet to see any answers other than the typical 'you are just a whiner' come forth. I would have expected there to be many more intelligent and reasonable responses come out, since podkilling at gatecamps is such a 'can do' thing. I just gave you a whole bunch of reasons in my post above. You just decided to ignore them. Fair enough. Quote: So, to those who gatecamp NOT for territory domination, but do it just because the only way they can dream of getting a real kill is to band together with as many losers as possible and shoot down solitary pilots, I hope your real life doesn't reflect upon your game life. If it does, I hope 'Would you like fries with that?' is a phrase you cherish. /end sarcasm You are wandering into ad-hominem territory here. Be careful of going down this path. -- Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes ^^ Woo hoo! Yellow Text!... wait... :(
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:24:00 - [110] I pod to hear the squishy noise Originally by: Tarminic Okay, that's it. You are on the KOS list, and you better pray that I don't have access to a locater agent.
Neon Genesis The Landed Gentry	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:25:00 - [111] Originally by: Titen Flap In a game that lets you make your own decisions about how to treat people, 'because I can' is the ONLY reason that matters. _
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:25:00 - [112] Originally by: Titen The Vlad reference, though funny, is self defeating. Vlad put heads on pikes at the borders to warn off potential enemy travellers, true. But where does that reference have a position with gatecamps? I dont recall any mechanism in the game that allows corps/groups who are intent on territorial domination put anything in space that.. oh.. WAIT! Yes there is isn't there? If you want to use the head-on-a-stick warning reference, then I would suppose putting up a can just outside of a protected area that says "The following system is owned, operated and protected by XXXXX - enter here and die" would be a fair equivalent, would it not? But no.. the campers dont do that do they? Vlad Reference = Fail Next? I already told you: to remove from the system (and hopefully the whole area) someone who might warn the next potential target. But really, you're failing to comprehend something basic about this game. You are asking "Why pod kill?" They are asking "Why not?" You might as well ask "why have sex with pretty girls?" Just because it's fun? Come on now, there's no reason to have sex with pretty girls - it's time consuming, can be expensive, takes a lot of effort. Seriously, I want you to justify it with a better reason than "because I can" CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:34:00 - [113] Originally by: Malcanis You might as well ask "why have sex with pretty girls?" Just because it's fun? Come on now, there's no reason to have sex with pretty girls - it's time consuming, can be expensive, takes a lot of effort. Seriously, I want you to justify it with a better reason than "because I can" You're going to have to add "why have sex with pretty girls, when you're not legally contracted to reproduce with them?" -- My sig taken from this site, so thoroughly explains the people I speak with on the forums.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:36:00 - [114] Actually I'm just bitter because someone took my pretty girl away and now I can't have sex with her. Actually, you know what? I'm not extending that analogy any further. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:54:00 - [115] Everyone hates gatecamps, until they get a chance to join one.
tek tek Gallente Porta Igneus	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:18:00 - [116] Edited by: tek tek on 26/12/2007 20:24:19 Originally by: Titen Finally. sarcasm 0.0/alliance warfare.You do not allow a NBSI pod into your territory. Its simple...INTEL. The pod is basically a Forward OP. You have the choice to enter low sec at your own risk and the guy on the other side has the choice to pod you if you are unlucky to get caught. Each player has his/her reasons why they like to pod. For me I only pod if the guy is being a dork or he is on my KOS list. So there is no universal reasoning for it. If you knew what you were doing you would never or very rarely ever get your pod captured in low sec. So you see its not a bad game mechanic issue its an issue of adapting and a learning to overcome issue. And who really cares why the guy did it or not. I mean seriously every one needs to back off the Freud routine and figure out how to play the game. As far as insulting players and assuming if they play like this then that means they are losers in life? What does that say about you if you have to brow beat other players to justify the fact you can not adapt to a damn game. Lead follow or get the hell out of the way!
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:34:00 - [117] Ok, I can accept the 'forward ops' viewpoint on a pod.. that makes sense. But I still dont understand how having a pod in your imagined 'territory' when you are not at war with the corp/alliance of the podowner would be detrimental to your cause. I suppose it could be an alt in that pod, so the argument holds it's value to that extent. But in the case of pirating, they are not attempting to just 'hold space' or defend a position.. they're (theoretically) supposed to be there to gank incoming ships (no problem with that), steal the cargo/remains of the ship they destroyed (no problem with that), and make their fortunes that way. Where does podkilling enter into it, as far as pirating goes? It doesn't - at all. But, I guess the only way to make it so you can still gatecamp a system in a non-pirate fashion (in order to protect your territory), the ability to podkill a potential alt spy is desireable. Since I cant think of a way to make that happen, as well as stop basic pirates from podkilling, I guess the sec status hit's pirates take are the only viable 'punishment' for such an action. I would, however, like any pilot (who is not war dec'd with me), that podkills me, to be potentially causing harm to their entire corp. Such as, not just having the pirates who fired on me be in my kill rights list - but their entire corporation. If a corp cant keep their pilots in line, or if a corp is purely pirate friendly when it comes to their own members, then I should be able to stomp on any of that corps pilots when I come across them. For those who would say 'wardec them', my obvious reply is 'they didn't wardec me to hit me to begin with, why should I take a sec status hit just to get some payback?' So I'm off now. Dont think I argued my point well at all here.
macrobiotic	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:36:00 - [118] Originally by: Whineroy And go back to Counter-Strike, you killmail-hunting little loser. I'm sorry, I forgot, PvP at CS involves real skill and not doing 10-on-1 gatecamps, using 40m SP+ pilots to gank newbies and similar. Well, perhaps you could find a server that allows aimbots so that you could satiate your sad little power fantasies. Get rid of mothership-gatecamping bed wetters and similar if you want to get rid of real wimps at Eve. Could not have said it better, gatecamping is to Pvp what shooting an animal in a cage is to hunting ===> FOR LOOSERS !!! And dont get me started on the "carebears" insult,anybody who lived in 0,0 knows that its full of carebears who rat, missions, mine and do plex all day long
tek tek Gallente Porta Igneus	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:57:00 - [119] Originally by: macrobiotic Originally by: Whineroy And go back to Counter-Strike, you killmail-hunting little loser. I'm sorry, I forgot, PvP at CS involves real skill and not doing 10-on-1 gatecamps, using 40m SP+ pilots to gank newbies and similar. Well, perhaps you could find a server that allows aimbots so that you could satiate your sad little power fantasies. Get rid of mothership-gatecamping bed wetters and similar if you want to get rid of real wimps at Eve. Could not have said it better, gatecamping is to Pvp what shooting an animal in a cage is to hunting ===> FOR LOOSERS !!! And dont get me started on the "carebears" insult,anybody who lived in 0,0 knows that its full of carebears who rat, missions, mine and do plex all day long Wow..so do you actually pew pew..or is this observation from the receiving end of non consensual pew pew? And at one time the term "Carebear" was actually a label applied to players who did not support non consensual pvp what so ever. So the so call bears down in 0.0 are not really bears..they go by another name. And there is a big difference between a MS on a gate a 10 guys on a low sec gate. Now 10 guys on a 0.0 gate you pretty screwed, but low sec you have a decent chance. Lead follow or get the hell out of the way!
Andrest Disch	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:59:00 - [120] Originally by: macrobiotic Originally by: Whineroy And go back to Counter-Strike, you killmail-hunting little loser. I'm sorry, I forgot, PvP at CS involves real skill and not doing 10-on-1 gatecamps, using 40m SP+ pilots to gank newbies and similar. Well, perhaps you could find a server that allows aimbots so that you could satiate your sad little power fantasies. Get rid of mothership-gatecamping bed wetters and similar if you want to get rid of real wimps at Eve. Could not have said it better, gatecamping is to Pvp what shooting an animal in a cage is to hunting ===> FOR LOOSERS !!! And dont get me started on the "carebears" insult,anybody who lived in 0,0 knows that its full of carebears who rat, missions, mine and do plex all day long Heh, so basically you're abject to anything thatr equires you to sit at the computer and learn to use the map itnerface, instead of just "Set Destination"? Seriously, i've only been playing for 5 days and its alot of fun to the game that it requires some skill to travel around in low sec. If there was no risk, this game would be an afk fest. Learn to get use your intuition, and when it fails learn what you did wrong and try again. That's what I did. =p
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:01:00 - [121] Originally by: Titen Where does podkilling enter into it, as far as pirating goes? It doesn't - at all. ... For those who would say 'wardec them', my obvious reply is 'they didn't wardec me to hit me to begin with, why should I take a sec status hit just to get some payback?' So I'm off now. Dont think I argued my point well at all here. First, for pirates, as you haven't read, there's the ransom thing. Besides that, as we're just discussing random gate camps and not territory protecting ones, if they don't pod you, it's likely your pod will make it to the next system and be able to warn everyone in system "There's a x number of ship gate camp through this gate", which results in fewer ships going through the gate and fewer kills so fewer cargo holds to loot. So, either way, unless honor or a fear of retaliation or sec status hit comes into account, a gatecamping pirate should pod you. Period. All of what I said in my previous paragraph has been said in other people's posts here that you've chosen to ignore; so, no, that's not a very good way to argue your point. And by the way, wardeccing them doesn't give you a status hit. In fact, if you attack pilots that you are in a war with, you do not get a status hit. Wardeccing is a way to avoid status hit (and avoid CONCORD, if in high sec). So my advice would be (a) learn how Eve really works (b) don't whine about mechanics of game (it's allowable, so it will happen, no matter what their reasoning is) (c) don't whine about the mechanics of the game (it makes you look like an unreasoning whiner, just don't do it) and (d) adapt or GTFO. -- My sig taken from this site, so thoroughly explains the people I speak with on the forums.
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:09:00 - [122] Originally by: Angel DeMorphis Originally by: Titen Where does podkilling enter into it, as far as pirating goes? It doesn't - at all. ... For those who would say 'wardec them', my obvious reply is 'they didn't wardec me to hit me to begin with, why should I take a sec status hit just to get some payback?' So I'm off now. Dont think I argued my point well at all here. First, for pirates, as you haven't read, there's the ransom thing. I've already discussed ther ransom thing - so perhaps it is you who hasn't read. Dont get on your high horse about people not paying attention, until you learn to do so yourself. Thanks for playing though, parting gifts are just outside the door marked 'Exit'
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:12:00 - [123] Originally by: Titen So I'm off now. Well this lasted a long time. - DesuSigs
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:12:00 - [124] Originally by: Titen Ok, I can accept the 'forward ops' viewpoint on a pod.. that makes sense. But I still dont understand how having a pod in your imagined 'territory' when you are not at war with the corp/alliance of the podowner would be detrimental to your cause. I suppose it could be an alt in that pod, so the argument holds it's value to that extent. But in the case of pirating, they are not attempting to just 'hold space' or defend a position.. they're (theoretically) supposed to be there to gank incoming ships (no problem with that), steal the cargo/remains of the ship they destroyed (no problem with that), and make their fortunes that way. Where does podkilling enter into it, as far as pirating goes? It doesn't - at all. But, I guess the only way to make it so you can still gatecamp a system in a non-pirate fashion (in order to protect your territory), the ability to podkill a potential alt spy is desireable. Since I cant think of a way to make that happen, as well as stop basic pirates from podkilling, I guess the sec status hit's pirates take are the only viable 'punishment' for such an action. I would, however, like any pilot (who is not war dec'd with me), that podkills me, to be potentially causing harm to their entire corp. Such as, not just having the pirates who fired on me be in my kill rights list - but their entire corporation. If a corp cant keep their pilots in line, or if a corp is purely pirate friendly when it comes to their own members, then I should be able to stomp on any of that corps pilots when I come across them. For those who would say 'wardec them', my obvious reply is 'they didn't wardec me to hit me to begin with, why should I take a sec status hit just to get some payback?' So I'm off now. Dont think I argued my point well at all here. Podkills are just salt on the wound. Especially against more experienced pilots who's clone costs are starting to get into the millions per death. I've heard it suggested on our TS to let the pods go so they have to crawl back through 0.0 space naked. For everyday raiding, yeah, why not? On a typical basis, consider the podkill an victor's way of saying, "Really, we mean it, go away."
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:29:00 - [125] My point was lost. All I am talking about is pirating. What point is it for a pirate - who's 'task' is to rob from the rich/poor and keep for themselves - to podkill their prey? Podkilling when you are not trying to say 'stay away, and I mean it' is lame. Want to protect your territory? Podkill all day - it's an effective tool. But for the players who pretend to play 'pirate', there's no realistic or rational reason for it. However, noone ever said the universe was supposed to be rational.. so when I see you piloting happily through a system, and decide to podkill you just for the heck of it, I guess that should be considered rational gameplay. EvE, where the strong pick on the weak, and if 'stronger' shows up, the strong just run away - oh what a way to ratify your dominant position in space. Last note.. the big thing that comes up during these discussions is 'you should use an alt to scout the gate first'. Sorry, but game mechanics dont allow that - since I can only log in under a single pilot at a time. Or, are you saying that the only people who should be allowed a chance to live in the universe are those who can afford two accounts? Or those who dont want to join a corp should HAVE to in order to traverse space? My my.. for a group that is so bent on saying this game lets you do what you want to have your fun, there sure are a lot of prerequisites and restrictions you have to deal with before your fun can begin. Thus far what I've mostly seen is excuses with no merit for pirates. "Scout the gate first", "We should be able to podkill you so you cant warn others about our gate camp". Hmm.. sure sounds like you want your cake and ice cream, without all the calories. Remove the 'risk' from your endeavor, but when someone else suggests that their own risk should be lightened it's a bad thing. Shrug.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:34:00 - [126] Originally by: Janu Hull Everyone hates gatecamps, until they get a chance to join one. Yeah, for a couple of hours, then it's time to watch TV. Might as well be mining. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:37:00 - [127] Originally by: Titen What point is it for a pirate - who's 'task' is to rob from the rich/poor and keep for themselves - to podkill their prey? Fail for assuming fixed roles in the game world. Originally by: Titen Podkilling when you are not trying to say 'stay away, and I mean it' is lame. Fail for stating your opinion as fact. Originally by: Titen But for the players who pretend to play 'pirate', there's no realistic or rational reason for it. Fail for thinking you need a reason to do anything in the game. Originally by: Titen Last note.. the big thing that comes up during these discussions is 'you should use an alt to scout the gate first'. Sorry, but game mechanics dont allow that - since I can only log in under a single pilot at a time. Or, are you saying that the only people who should be allowed a chance to live in the universe are those who can afford two accounts? Or those who dont want to join a corp should HAVE to in order to traverse space? Fail for assuming the game balanced around solo pilots. 4 hit monsterfailcombo. - DesuSigs
N'irrti Amarr PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:42:00 - [128] <3 Crumplecorn
Mark Lucius The Vinlanders SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:43:00 - [129] <3 Crumplecorn ---
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:49:00 - [130] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Titen What point is it for a pirate - who's 'task' is to rob from the rich/poor and keep for themselves - to podkill their prey? Fail for assuming fixed roles in the game world. Not assuming anything, just telling you that the pirate who claims to be pirating for pirating sake is the subject matter I'm discussion - Fail returned, volley 1 Originally by: Titen Podkilling when you are not trying to say 'stay away, and I mean it' is lame. Fail for stating your opinion as fact. I never said it was a fact, but I'm glad you read my opinions as facts and have to comment about it - Fail returned - volley 2 Originally by: Titen But for the players who pretend to play 'pirate', there's no realistic or rational reason for it. Fail for thinking you need a reason to do anything in the game. Thank you for proving my point that there is no reason for podkilling when a pirate is 'pirating' for goods - Fail returned, volley 3 Originally by: Titen Last note.. the big thing that comes up during these discussions is 'you should use an alt to scout the gate first'. Sorry, but game mechanics dont allow that - since I can only log in under a single pilot at a time. Or, are you saying that the only people who should be allowed a chance to live in the universe are those who can afford two accounts? Or those who dont want to join a corp should HAVE to in order to traverse space? Fail for assuming the game balanced around solo pilots. But it is constantly stated that if "I" (or anyone else) want to survive a camp, "I" (or anyone else) needs to scout first. Since that cant be done on a single account in a non-corp, then the game is not 'balanced around solo pilots'.. it is, rather, skewed way off balance for multiaccount/corp pilots. - Fail returned - volley 4 If the argument is now going to be 'there are more corp/multiaccount pilots than single account/noncorp pilots - therefore the way the majority plays is the rule', then perhaps other things need to be changed as well.. cuz I'm pretty sure that there are more carebears in ES than in the whole of the remaining EvE universe.. so should we start allowing them to dictate what is 'fair' and what is 'not fair' to the rest of us? Lets see.. we'll start off with 'you cant shoot at me unless I target you back' and 'a mechanism needs to be in place to make us all EVEN, regardless of pilot age, so if I'm a 1 day noob and you're a 5 year vet - you need to be dropped down to my level of ability in order to fight me' Yay.. democracy.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:54:00 - [131] Originally by: Titen If the argument is now going to be 'there are more corp/multiaccount pilots than single account/noncorp pilots - therefore the way the majority plays is the rule', then perhaps other things need to be changed as well.. cuz I'm pretty sure that there are more carebears in ES than in the whole of the remaining EvE universe.. so should we start allowing them to dictate what is 'fair' and what is 'not fair' to the rest of us? Wow. This fails so hard I think you caused everyone who read it mild brain damage. EVE isn't balanced around multiple players because the majority of people play that way. EVE is balanced around multiple players because it is a Massively Multiplayer Online Game. - DesuSigs
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:56:00 - [132] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Janu Hull Everyone hates gatecamps, until they get a chance to join one. Yeah, for a couple of hours, then it's time to watch TV. Might as well be mining. Either way, you're farming, its simply a question of skills and fit.
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.26 22:02:00 - [133] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Titen If the argument is now going to be 'there are more corp/multiaccount pilots than single account/noncorp pilots - therefore the way the majority plays is the rule', then perhaps other things need to be changed as well.. cuz I'm pretty sure that there are more carebears in ES than in the whole of the remaining EvE universe.. so should we start allowing them to dictate what is 'fair' and what is 'not fair' to the rest of us? Wow. This fails so hard I think you caused everyone who read it mild brain damage. EVE isn't balanced around multiple players because the majority of people play that way. EVE is balanced around multiple players because it is a Massively Multiplayer Online Game. You should really quit while you're behind. The second "M" in MMORPG does not mean 'multiplayer' as in 'you have more than one account'. You're not even worth debating the issue with any more.. that's got to be the most ignorant thing I've read in months.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.26 22:06:00 - [134] Originally by: Titen Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Titen If the argument is now going to be 'there are more corp/multiaccount pilots than single account/noncorp pilots - therefore the way the majority plays is the rule', then perhaps other things need to be changed as well.. cuz I'm pretty sure that there are more carebears in ES than in the whole of the remaining EvE universe.. so should we start allowing them to dictate what is 'fair' and what is 'not fair' to the rest of us? Wow. This fails so hard I think you caused everyone who read it mild brain damage. EVE isn't balanced around multiple players because the majority of people play that way. EVE is balanced around multiple players because it is a Massively Multiplayer Online Game. You should really quit while you're behind. The second "M" in MMORPG does not mean 'multiplayer' as in 'you have more than one account'. You're not even worth debating the issue with any more.. that's got to be the most ignorant thing I've read in months. What is the difference, in practice, in game balance terms, of 2 players using 2 accounts, and 1 player using 2 accounts? (answer is 'None' BTW) - DesuSigs
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.12.26 22:06:00 - [135] Fortunately he didn't say anything about multiple accounts. That was you. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Mark Lucius The Vinlanders SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 22:24:00 - [136] Edited by: Mark Lucius on 26/12/2007 22:27:16 Your medical clone and your implants are assets like any other and are therefore subject to the same risks when transporting them. There are more forms of competition other than war. Podding has several effects in most cases and can result in someone losing SP. Besides beating the competition (without prior agreement, everyone in the game is a competitor), this has one important result: satisfaction. This does not require further justification. Gatecamps can be easily avoided by intelligent use of the map, the scanner and your brain. It is even easier with the use of an alt, either one from the same account or a second. edit Just in case it isn't obvious, having someone else scout for you is also a solution. ---
Siriyana Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:27:00 - [137] After reading this thread I can only offer a single reply, and I hope that it loses absolutely nothing in its brevity, or its translation to the original poster and his or her ideas about gatecamping, this game, what he or she expects of this game as opposed to the reality of what this game is. My reply is; ROFL. ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
Atomos Darksun Damage Incorporated.	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:32:00 - [138] Originally by: Titen Ok, I can accept the 'forward ops' viewpoint on a pod.. that makes sense. But I still dont understand how having a pod in your imagined 'territory' when you are not at war with the corp/alliance of the podowner would be detrimental to your cause. I suppose it could be an alt in that pod, so the argument holds it's value to that extent. But in the case of pirating, they are not attempting to just 'hold space' or defend a position.. they're (theoretically) supposed to be there to gank incoming ships (no problem with that), steal the cargo/remains of the ship they destroyed (no problem with that), and make their fortunes that way. Where does podkilling enter into it, as far as pirating goes? It doesn't - at all. But, I guess the only way to make it so you can still gatecamp a system in a non-pirate fashion (in order to protect your territory), the ability to podkill a potential alt spy is desireable. Since I cant think of a way to make that happen, as well as stop basic pirates from podkilling, I guess the sec status hit's pirates take are the only viable 'punishment' for such an action. I would, however, like any pilot (who is not war dec'd with me), that podkills me, to be potentially causing harm to their entire corp. Such as, not just having the pirates who fired on me be in my kill rights list - but their entire corporation. If a corp cant keep their pilots in line, or if a corp is purely pirate friendly when it comes to their own members, then I should be able to stomp on any of that corps pilots when I come across them. For those who would say 'wardec them', my obvious reply is 'they didn't wardec me to hit me to begin with, why should I take a sec status hit just to get some payback?' So I'm off now. Dont think I argued my point well at all here. what are you, completely ***** ******? You don't HAVE to be at war with someone to be their enemies. Let's say I'm in IAC. Let's say, -V-/CoW decides to send in a fleet of battleships to F4R2 to oohhh I dunno, shoot at IAC because we each hate each others guts. So now you're saying that even though they came straight into our territory, started shooting at us, that we can't pop their pods? Moron. In EVE, it's all about the freedom of what you want to do. Therefore, "because I want to" is a completely valid answer. Why do people pvp? Because they want to. QED. -----
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:48:00 - [139] Originally by: Atomos Darksun In EVE, it's all about the freedom of what you want to do. Therefore, "because I want to" is a completely valid answer. Why do people pvp? Because they want to. QED. Odd.. I didnt WANT to pvp when I was gatecamp podkilled.. so that kinda podkills your argument huh? Once again, you show that it is what someone else 'wants' that overrides what other people dont 'want' and your only response to the 'why is this a fair situation' is 'because I want to'. Nice debating skills there.
Siriyana Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2007.12.27 01:11:00 - [140] Originally by: Titen Originally by: Atomos Darksun In EVE, it's all about the freedom of what you want to do. Therefore, "because I want to" is a completely valid answer. Why do people pvp? Because they want to. QED. Odd.. I didnt WANT to pvp when I was gatecamp podkilled.. so that kinda podkills your argument huh? Once again, you show that it is what someone else 'wants' that overrides what other people dont 'want' and your only response to the 'why is this a fair situation' is 'because I want to'. Nice debating skills there. That's what the rules of the game allow. CCP creates the rules the game operates by, the players operate within the bounds of those rules. If you dislike the rules the game operates by, there are many other games for you to choose from. If you like the rules and can overcome, then stay. ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.27 01:20:00 - [141] Edited by: Avon on 27/12/2007 01:22:09 It's all about teh pretty kersplosions and da squelchy sounds. Nuffink wrong wiv dat. My gate is my door Enter and expect peril: Winter brings much death. *Added: Where is it that the anti-gatecampers would like to be killed? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.27 01:24:00 - [142] Originally by: Titen Originally by: Atomos Darksun In EVE, it's all about the freedom of what you want to do. Therefore, "because I want to" is a completely valid answer. Why do people pvp? Because they want to. QED. Odd.. I didnt WANT to pvp when I was gatecamp podkilled.. so that kinda podkills your argument huh? Once again, you show that it is what someone else 'wants' that overrides what other people dont 'want' and your only response to the 'why is this a fair situation' is 'because I want to'. Nice debating skills there. Didn't want to? Really? Did you press the undock button? Why is it a fair situation? It's not. 'Fair' is not a concept used in EVE. - DesuSigs
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.27 01:26:00 - [143] we getting alot of wow players lately or what?
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.27 01:30:00 - [144] Anyone who resorts to WoW references has zero need to be listened to in the first place. I've only played EvE - ever. No other MMORPG has ever crossed my bandwidth. And, in the end, the resounding answer to 'Can anyone give me a valid reason, other than 'because they can', for a pirate - acting as a pirate and not defending territory - to be podkilling?' is: "Because they can" No wonder CCP ignores most of these threads.. you fanboy types are useless.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.27 01:33:00 - [145] Originally by: Titen Anyone who resorts to WoW references has zero need to be listened to in the first place. I've only played EvE - ever. No other MMORPG has ever crossed my bandwidth. And, in the end, the resounding answer to 'Can anyone give me a valid reason, other than 'because they can', for a pirate - acting as a pirate and not defending territory - to be podkilling?' is: "Because they can" No wonder CCP ignores most of these threads.. you fanboy types are useless. If you won't accept that 'because they can' is all the reason they need, there is zero need to listen to you. And you probably should gb2/WoW. - DesuSigs
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.27 01:39:00 - [146] Originally by: Titen No wonder CCP ignores most of these threads.. you fanboy types are useless. One of the greatest things about Eve is that you can actually play one of the "bad guys" in a meaningful way. "Evil" players are constrained by the game mechanics in the same way as "Good" players, and so any perception you have of advantage or unfairness is based purely on your own moralistic viewpoint and nothing more. It is perfectly possible for the "good" guys to shoot the "bad" guys first, but they won't because then they are the "bad" guys. It is just a matter of perspective. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.27 01:51:00 - [147] Jesus guys it's a ******* troll post, how on earth did it get to 6 pages. -----
Titen	Posted - 2007.12.27 02:19:00 - [148] Hey, I can accept that 'because they can' is a good enough reason for pirates to podkill just for the sake of podkilling. The only reason this got so drawn out was because I was basically called a moron because I said that the reason was lame. It's as if 'because they can' cant also be a 'lame' reason or something, so I asked for explanations why it wasn't. I've been playing EvE for about five years now and dont plan on going anywhere. Pirates do as pirates do.. they are a part of the game, and make it more interesting. My own losses of ships and gear are due to my own stupidity at the time of the loss, and I'm not gonna blame some game mechanic for it. I just said podkilling outside of war was lame. Then I agreed that podkilling to defend territory wasn't lame, and made sense. Then I agreed that podkilling after a ransom demand was rejected wasn't lame, and made sense. All that was left was podkilling 'because they can' in the 'lame' category.. and I think it still is in the lame category. Yes, okay, all right, fine, i UNDERSTAND that you CAN podkill.. but that doesn't mean it's not LAME to do it for no reason at all other than chest beating. The OP says camping ruins the game.. that mws shouldn't be able to catch frigs.. etc.. I dont agree at all. Having my ship blown up didn't ruin anything for me. I didn't care too much. Having my pod toasted and losing implants in the process was no real biggie, cuz I can easily afford replacements. So it's not out of suffering, pain, or whineyness that I even bothered to post. It was to point out an activity that I find to be uncalled for. Just because my perception of what is 'acceptable' is different from yours doesn't mean I'm wrong - or that you are wrong. It doesn't make either one of us dumb. What makes you dumb is fanboy attitudes and 'thats the way it is so live with it' remarks.. or 'go play WoW'.. or 'why dont you just quit'.. instead of constructive discussions about an issue. And, yes, I too can play right along in the deconstrutive attitude category. Sometimes you have to stoop to ignorant remarks and troll-like responses just to get through the thick skulls out there. See ya in space. Titen
Mordrake Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.27 02:43:00 - [149] Edited by: Mordrake on 27/12/2007 02:43:39 I just wish I could "Tea Bag" the corpses in space after I POD Kill ; [ It would make my Gate Camp expierience all the more enjoyable!! CCP INTRODUCE TEA BAGGING!! "Arte et Marte"
Siriyana Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2007.12.27 03:10:00 - [150] Originally by: Mordrake CCP INTRODUCE TEA BAGGING!! /signed ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
SumDum AirHawk Alliance Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.12.27 03:42:00 - [151] Originally by: Mordrake CCP INTRODUCE TEA BAGGING!! /signed
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.27 03:52:00 - [152] OMG YES! TeaBag is so awesome that I can't wait, torrenting some BFs as we speak. Later, EVE! ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Jimer Lins Gallente Pod Six Research	Posted - 2007.12.27 03:57:00 - [153] I've got an idea. Titen, why not live like the other half does for a while? I challenge you to do this: Create a Minmatar alt, trained with the soldier/SF lines. Train Propulsion Jamming and Minmatar Frigates up a bit. Go pirating somewhere for a week or two. (there's some great guides in the C&P forum on low-skill piracy) Or, create an alt, train it up for a day or two and join a pirate corp and camp a gate or two- see what you think. Hell, if you'd take this challenge up, I bet we could get enough ISK donated to a fund to buy you a GTC for a month to try out piracy, IF you'd agree to fully commit and report your experiences openly afterward. Then you can come back and judge everyone you like, having walked a mile in their moccasins.

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