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afukuzawa1
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Posted - 2007.12.30 02:32:00 -
[1]
thinking about training to use the stuff, is it worth it?
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2007.12.30 02:40:00 -
[2]
Faction is nearly as powerful without the drawbacks in _most_ circumstances.
But the guns are worth it. :) ________
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Kismo
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Posted - 2007.12.30 02:41:00 -
[3]
Short range, yes. Long range, no.
-Kiz
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Shereza
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Posted - 2007.12.30 03:12:00 -
[4]
For short range on hybrid weapons if you can get dread guristas antimatter ammo for around the same cost as like-sized T2 ammo then go for the DG. More DPS less drawbacks.
If you're doing long range on hybrids then spike's probably better than just about anything else you'll find.
I have no real experience with energy, projectile, and missile T2 weapons so I can't say much that way however I would like to point out that in several instances CalNav missile ammo performs almost as well as some flavors of T2 ammo and without the drawbacks the performance somewhat equalizes.
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"Titans were never meant to be cost-effective. It's a huge ****." - Some dev(?). |
UGLYUGLY
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Posted - 2007.12.30 03:23:00 -
[5]
For pulse lasers at lease, Faction multi's are better than t2 ammo. But scorch is a sexy t2 ammo, IMO much better than using faction radio.
Faction missles are great. I persnally use faction missles exclusivly. Precision missles have their place and it's always good to carry a few.
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Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition
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Posted - 2007.12.30 03:31:00 -
[6]
Yeah.
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Naviset
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Posted - 2007.12.30 03:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kismo Short range, yes. Long range, no.
-Kiz
Uhhh... no.
Short range, no. Use faction ammo for shortrange.
Long range, yes. Long range T2 ammo is amazing.
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.12.30 03:35:00 -
[8]
precisions/long range ammo = worth it
hi-damage/short range ammo = not worth it. faction stuff does nearly the same damage for 0 drawbacks. ---
planetary interaction idea! |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.30 10:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kismo Short range, yes. Long range, no.
-Kiz
As someone who uses t2 ammo,
Shortrange - No - Use faction insted Longrange - yes - Better than non-t2 long range damage --
Billion Isk Mission |
Vathar
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.30 11:28:00 -
[10]
Only times when short range t2 ammo is worth it is when you're shooting something bigger that can't really hit back. (Or when you're fighting a moron that doesn't know what transversal means)
Originally by: Radeberger If you plan to make your alliance combat based, recruit pvpers with mining alts rather than miners with pvp alts[/qu |
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.30 11:32:00 -
[11]
T2 short range ammo needs a boost or a serious change. Conflagration ammo is a joke. ________________________________________
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Djerin
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.12.30 12:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vathar Only times when short range t2 ammo is worth it is when you're shooting something bigger that can't really hit back. (Or when you're fighting a moron that doesn't know what transversal means)
Yeah, like when shooting battleships or bigger stuff from your cruiser-/battlecruiser sized ship. The reason for this is that t2 ammois actually less expensive. But unless you're Amarr the delay of reloading ammo is a pain. :( ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition
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Posted - 2007.12.30 12:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kerdrak T2 short range ammo needs a boost or a serious change. Conflagration ammo is a joke.
Conflagration has a better EM/therm ratio.
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Warrio
Mining Bytes Inc. Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.12.30 12:08:00 -
[14]
The OP could do with a little more info such as what size guns/launchers and what type of weapon.
Sig removed due to being too freaking awsome. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard Cain |
Word
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Posted - 2007.12.30 14:52:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Word on 30/12/2007 14:53:00 Pretty much what Adm Pelleon says in the first post:
I've honestly given T2 ammo a good try and I'm very disappointed with the rediculously high penalties.
When flying Minmatar, I'm down to only using Tremor projectile ammo for long range, and even that sucks because of the tracking penalty. A sniper with Large guns needs all the tracking it can get.
Same for missiles, the penalties just make it too impractical and inefficient.
SO, I'm mostly using faction and Republic Military ammo from my station's LP store now.
IMHO, the only reason to get T2 guns and missile launcher, at least as far a Minmatar goes, is for the ROF and damage bonus from the module, and NOT because it can take a T2 charge.
Scripts are a new factor. Will they help to minimize the T2 ammo nerfing? I've noticed from the info's that they have some pretty wierd penalties too.
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.31 09:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
Originally by: Kerdrak T2 short range ammo needs a boost or a serious change. Conflagration ammo is a joke.
Conflagration has a better EM/therm ratio.
Abaddon/Apoc/Geddon with Conflag has worse tracking than Dreadnaught Ion Seige blasters or Dreadnaught Arty.
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Hans Angry
Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii
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Posted - 2007.12.31 09:32:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Hans Angry on 31/12/2007 09:34:19 depends... federation navy antimatter, republic fleet emp, and all close range faction ammo's are good to carry and use from time to time if you want, but most engagements im in are short, so for say with my deimos, i only carry void, so i can max dps, and its cheaper then faction :P... guns are worth it though... blasters i would say void is a must autocannons i would say barrage is a must artillery quake is needed to snipe railguns spike is needed to use it as a sniper Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2007.12.31 10:00:00 -
[18]
I'm training T2 heavy missiles just to fit the launchers. Extra RoF and saves a LOT of money over buying the horribly overpriced Arbalests. Hell even Meta 3 are more expensive than T2.
Don't intend to use much actual T2 ammo... I hear those precision missiles can be pretty kickass, though.
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.31 10:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Wet Ferret I'm training T2 heavy missiles just to fit the launchers. Extra RoF and saves a LOT of money over buying the horribly overpriced Arbalests. Hell even Meta 3 are more expensive than T2.
Don't intend to use much actual T2 ammo... I hear those precision missiles can be pretty kickass, though.
Training for t2 missiles uses more skills than t2 launchers. So training t2 heavys missiles just to fit launchers is not 100% clevler unless you plan on carrying t2 missiles with you
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nabort
Immoral Tendancies
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Posted - 2007.12.31 11:05:00 -
[20]
Edited by: nabort on 31/12/2007 11:07:23 Edited by: nabort on 31/12/2007 11:05:37
Originally by: Jonny JoJo Abaddon/Apoc/Geddon with Conflag has worse tracking than Dreadnaught Ion Seige blasters or Dreadnaught Arty.
Unfortunatly, not true. Assuming maxed skills, Mega Pulse with Conflag fitted has a tracking of 0.02109, whereas Capital Arties have 0.00053, and Capital Autocannons have 0.00203.
This is in Siege Mode ofc, but anyway, Mega Pulse have better DPS than Capital Turrets if they're not used with a Siege Module :p
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.12.31 12:06:00 -
[21]
T2 long range ammunition adds a funktionality not available from other types, so that would be a yes... Penalties are harsh though... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Z3r0n
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.31 12:34:00 -
[22]
I'm a big Null fan for gangs so I'd say it's worth it. I can still hit at 20km with ok hit-chance with Null and still get nice DPS... dunno of any faction ammo that could do the same job (DG Iron may have the range but the DPS is a lot weaker then Null). The only times I use Void though is when I'm shooting a slow moving BS or something (where tracking and range-keeping isn't an issue) and if nothing else is available (which is often the case when I'm lazy and don't wanna fly around to much hehe).
I personally find the price of most t2 ammo balanced.
Currently Training: ePeen Compensation Rank (19) |
Jonny JoJo
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.31 12:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: nabort Edited by: nabort on 31/12/2007 11:07:23 Edited by: nabort on 31/12/2007 11:05:37
Originally by: Jonny JoJo Abaddon/Apoc/Geddon with Conflag has worse tracking than Dreadnaught Ion Seige blasters or Dreadnaught Arty.
Unfortunatly, not true. Assuming maxed skills, Mega Pulse with Conflag fitted has a tracking of 0.02109, whereas Capital Arties have 0.00053, and Capital Autocannons have 0.00203.
This is in Siege Mode ofc, but anyway, Mega Pulse have better DPS than Capital Turrets if they're not used with a Siege Module :p
Except you need to learn maths.
Without skills, 0.0216 for Capital Shortrange, and 0.016 for 8 x Megapulse II + Conflag
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Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition
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Posted - 2007.12.31 12:53:00 -
[24]
I didn't fit my Abaddon to swat nanoships, it sits still pumping DPS into other ships that are sitting still. And seriously, what the hell was that about? How are MP II even comparable to capital weaponry?
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.31 12:58:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 12:58:10
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad I didn't fit my Abaddon to swat nanoships, it sits still pumping DPS into other ships that are sitting still. And seriously, what the hell was that about? How are MP II even comparable to capital weaponry?
Point is Conflag is crap compared to alternatives.
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Rixsta
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.12.31 13:06:00 -
[26]
For Autocannons Barrage is pretty much a yes yes when you need to dictate range and still do damage, hail is pretty much a no no, favoring RF Emp in its place.
Arty, both have their place really, if you know your target is sitting still Quake is a nasty piece of work (the drawbacks aren't too much of a big deal on a dedicated sniper boat, no real module with high cap usage, velocity not needed unless you're trying to get out of a bubble, in which case you deserve to die if you've still got quake loaded) and Tremor is pretty standard and decent as it gives you the most range.
Some may prefer to use RF Emp instead of Quake again, but the drawbacks aren't as important because of the nature of it, Quake you'd be a in sniping setup, Hail you'd general be in a close range possibly tanked setup. -------------------------------
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Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition
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Posted - 2007.12.31 13:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 12:58:10
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad I didn't fit my Abaddon to swat nanoships, it sits still pumping DPS into other ships that are sitting still. And seriously, what the hell was that about? How are MP II even comparable to capital weaponry?
Point is Conflag is crap compared to alternatives.
Not really. Amarr Navy Multifrequency has a worse EM/therm ratio in exchange for a lack of T2 penalties. Because the penalties themselves are fairly negligible, I accept them and in the end do more damage than you would on average with a similar setup and faction crystals.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2007.12.31 20:41:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Wet Ferret I'm training T2 heavy missiles just to fit the launchers. Extra RoF and saves a LOT of money over buying the horribly overpriced Arbalests. Hell even Meta 3 are more expensive than T2.
Don't intend to use much actual T2 ammo... I hear those precision missiles can be pretty kickass, though.
Training for t2 missiles uses more skills than t2 launchers. So training t2 heavys missiles just to fit launchers is not 100% clevler unless you plan on carrying t2 missiles with you
You're right. I trained up Missile Op V so long ago that I forgot about that. But I didn't mean to say I wouldn't be carrying T2 ammo, just that I wouldn't be using a lot of it. Not very cost efficient for me
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Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.12.31 20:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Naviset
Uhhh... no.
Short range, no. Use faction ammo for shortrange.
Long range, yes. Long range T2 ammo is amazing.
You people are crazy.
Barrage and Scorch are freaking godsends. The mother and father of all ammos.
Seriously, Barrage and Scorch are the best ammos in the game. Barrage and Scorch are both short range ammos.
So it really boils down to this:
Close Range Damage Ammo: Use Faction (Void, Hail, Conflag) Close Range Range Ammo: BEST AMMO IN THE GAME, BAR NONE (excepting hybrids) (Null, Barrage, Scorch) Long Range Damage Ammo: Use Faction (Quake, Javelin, Gleam) Long Range Range Ammo: Only use it if you plan on shooting something sitting still and a long long way away. (Spike, Tremor, Aurora)
Precision Missiles: They're ok but they're too slow Fury Missiles: Use Faction Javelin: Pretty nice! Rage Missiles: Use Faction
There might be errors on the Amarr ammos, but Missiles/Hybrid/Projectiles I'm really quite familiar with.
-Liang --
Originally by: "QProQ"
When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.31 21:02:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 12:58:10
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad I didn't fit my Abaddon to swat nanoships, it sits still pumping DPS into other ships that are sitting still. And seriously, what the hell was that about? How are MP II even comparable to capital weaponry?
Point is Conflag is crap compared to alternatives.
Not really. Amarr Navy Multifrequency has a worse EM/therm ratio in exchange for a lack of T2 penalties. Because the penalties themselves are fairly negligible, I accept them and in the end do more damage than you would on average with a similar setup and faction crystals.
If you know for 100% fact that your target is going to be not moving at all (i.e webbed like mad) then yes, tracking does not matter.
Otherwise, there is no point, in some cases, tripling your missed shots just because you used conflag to give worse than non-Amarr Dreadnaught tracking.
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