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Lexandre
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Posted - 2008.01.01 12:53:00 -
[1]
People in this game seem to have nothing better to do than lure newbies and then pod kill them. First someone invites you to join a fleet, then ask for help and tell you to warp to their location. As soon as you warped you get blasted by a very strong ship.
I suppose no good deed goes unpunished, but tricking newbie players and then podkilling them is as low as it gets...
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Durzel
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Posted - 2008.01.01 13:11:00 -
[2]
Got to be more to this story... being part of a fleet/gang doesn't alter the mechanics of being Concorded in high-sec etc for unauthorised aggression.
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Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.01.01 14:33:00 -
[3]
Yes it is a cowardly low thing to do. But eve is a cold hard place.
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Kessiaan
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Posted - 2008.01.01 15:07:00 -
[4]
First rule of Eve is to trust no one. Except maybe your corp and even then only after you've been with them a while.
Better to learn now in a cheap ship though.
-----
My in Eve Profile
My BattleClinic Page |
La Smurf
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Posted - 2008.01.01 15:11:00 -
[5]
They have an alt in another corp that they are at war with, once you join the gang they invite their alt to the same gang.
You are now a valid war target to them so they can kill you with no Concord intervention.
You will get a notice that the person that invites you is in a corp that's at war.
Rules of Eve
1. Trust no one
2. Read the pop up messages before clicking OK
3. Fly only what you can afford to loose
4. Trust no one (this ones important)
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Jovoich
Towers Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.01 18:19:00 -
[6]
Its called the Lofty scam
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.01.01 18:53:00 -
[7]
You will either come to love that you are in no way protected from your choices (no one made you accept the fleet invite) and will learn to improve with each mistake (joining a fleet with strangers) or you will want an MMO that is more "cushy" and leave. Wishing you the first choice in this new year. EVE is an incredible game.
When you get knocked on your ass (which will happen again - bet on it) you will find that if you come to the rookie forum and post asking how to improve so you don't experience the same loss again you will find a very helpful, supportive and even empathetic group. When you come here and post a whine about the consequence of a choice you made don't expect to be coddeled and told "Oh Noes! Those Bastards. How could they do that to you? You are so right - they are so childish and you are a poor, poor victim. I'm sending you 20 mil isk right now so you don't leave." It won't happen. Ever.
If you can't hack the cruel environment of EVE no one is going to talk you into staying or validate for you how "correct" your opinion is of those that do play. It's either for you or it's not. If you think it might be for you (and of course I hope it is) then I encourage you to use this forum to learn from your mistakes because that's why your ship got blown to smithereens: you made a mistake.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.01 19:08:00 -
[8]
When someone ask for help, the standard system to be fairly secure is to be the one forming the fleet, with the option to accept or deny access to the fleet to other people.
You should always suspect some form of trap when some unknown person ask for help, and you should help them only if you think that the ship you are using can be lost without consequences, even if you are the fleet commander.
There are several system to make life hard for the members of a fleet. One example is getting aggro from anything in a mission and then warping away, leaving the other player to be overwhelmed by the enemies.
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Micia
Minmatar
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.01.01 20:53:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Lexandre
People in this game seem to have nothing better to do than lure newbies and then pod kill them.
No, that is simply not true. It's a very small percentage of pilots who do this.
I do agree that it is an extremely lame thing to do, though. 
_______
We are Ushra'Khan. We come for our people. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.01.01 21:02:00 -
[10]
almost every time you do something in eve a nice little warning box comes up READ IT!!!!!
Quote:
<insert name> wants you to join their fleet, do you accept?
No one in this fleet is in a corporation that is currently at war. However, be aware that if fellow fleet members' corporations go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first.
if one of your fleet members goes to war, or is at war you are a legal target for their aggressors.
now did they blow up your pod, or was it your ship and you ejected in your pod?
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Segil Nastra
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Posted - 2008.01.01 22:23:00 -
[11]
Don't judge everyone by a few players that you meet that behave lowly. There are definitely griefers in this game, people who enjoy nothing more than to ruin someone else's gaming experience. And there are those who will share everything with you, advice, iskis, and help you have fun playing EVE.
When you accept a gang invite from someone you do not know, it is always a risk. If you decide to take this risk, bring a ship and clone that you do not care to lose. It goes both ways - sometimes you can meet some really cool people in game and meet friends, and other times you're gonne get ambushed.
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Disunity
Gallente
Royal Regiment of Wales
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Posted - 2008.01.01 23:32:00 -
[12]
You meet this sort of behaviour in any pvp (ffa in this case) or pve with dueling environment.
Originally by: Lexandre
I suppose no good deed goes unpunished
And neither should a bad deed. Most of these random player killing muppets never record the names of the players they grief, use the ingame player notes and standings to remember him/them.
You will get the chance in time to even the score, just don't rush it, make sure it hurts.
I wont kill anybody without a reason, but give me a reason and I'm giggling like a little girl for months. 
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.01.02 00:28:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 02/01/2008 00:29:44
Let's not give the new guy misinformation. He was not 'griefed'. The sticky at the top of this forum concerning EVE Golden Rules is very helpful for any new person to read and would help them realize that this event is not griefing.
EVE does not disallow a huge range of "scams" (as they would be defined in the context of another MMO) and in fact provides an environment where while not exactly encouraged there are rich rewards waiting for those that choose to use game mechanics to separate players from their isk because said player failed to read the warnings or educate themselves about the game or got too greedy (Honestly most scams are successful because of the "victim's" inherent greed.).
And let's spare rookies the moral high ground schtick. I personally don't "scam" but I certainly take advantage of folks ignorance about the market to make good isk trading. I take every opportunity to shoot people down or ransom them in low-sec. Is someone who never aggresses and always pays and sells items at the market average morally superior to me? This is just a video game lads.
I chose one way to enjoy the game the "scammer" or the high-sec "noble" mission runner chose another. That's what you chose to play and give you enjoyment. I do not play in a more "morally" superior way to anyone else and neither does anyone else reading this. This is a video game where the rules and mechanics are available to everyone to understand and master - it's an equal playing field for everyone. So long as you are playing within those rules and mechanics there is no moral high ground and no low ground. There is just how we each play the game and how we choose to enjoy it. And because this is a multiplayer game with a rich player on player environment most of that enjoyment is going to be had at the expense of someone else (Try to play this game in a way in which your 'gain' never came at someone else's 'loss'. Let's see how interesting EVE stays for you.). Get used to that idea and you will love EVE and even better you will no longer be wracked with bouts of unnecessary moral self-righteousness.
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Westly Synpa
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.01.02 00:44:00 -
[14]
rule #1 in the game is never fly anthing you can't afford to lose.
rule #2 is never gang with anyone you don't trust implicity.
This game is harsh on you treat it that way. Dont gang with anyone you dont know and never help random people because it will most likley get you blown up.
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Helen Hunts
Gallente
Red Dragon Mining inc
Red Dragon Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.02 01:14:00 -
[15]
Sounds like the OP ran afoul of a 'Lofty29' all right
Now as to revenge....
Don't add to the bounty on his head. It'll only make him happier.
Don't just get a new ship and try to gun him down. It'll make him really happy.
Don't talk a lot of 'smack' to him. To him, it's a form of applause, which makes him happy.
DO read through the 'Crime & Punishment' section of the forums for a few ideas on how these guys work.
DO keep quiet about any revenge you might wish to take. (no sense in giving him any more warning than you got, eh?)
DO make a few plans and review them carefully.
DO look into having a professional take him out....repeatedly (until you get bored or out of funds)
Or... you can chalk it up as a learning experience and make sure that such things don't happen again. Learn how these guys operate. Learn the difference between griefers and pirates. (yes, there IS a difference)
Oh, and try to only fly with people you know and trust....it saves on repair/replacement costs in the long run.
_______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships.
Pop da rats, make more rigs.
Sell da gear, make more money.
Any Questions? |
Randolf Sightblinder
Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2008.01.02 03:18:00 -
[16]
Really, this scam should have been ruled an exploit a while ago. The reason why is that you ARE warned when you would join a gang "at war" but you ARE NOT notified if that status changes. You should be notified if your "at war" status changes and then it becomes up to you to make a decision. If the fleet interface did not warn you at all then maybe ok, or if you were notified any time that status changed then again ok, but as it is the system FAILS to warn you of a status change which other players can exploit without your knowledge, particularly of newer players or players who do not understand exactly how the fleet system and agro works. And without a written manual and without documented mechanics how are people really expected to know what is going on?
CCP needs to set down and document the mechanics of fleets, corps, can agro, and wars and then stick to or change that document any time they fix or change something.
Randolf Sightblinder
And if these are documented could someone point me to where?
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Considered
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Posted - 2008.01.02 03:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lexandre
People in this game seem to have nothing better to do than lure newbies and then pod kill them. First someone invites you to join a fleet, then ask for help and tell you to warp to their location. As soon as you warped you get blasted by a very strong ship.
I suppose no good deed goes unpunished, but tricking newbie players and then podkilling them is as low as it gets...
Other people in the game seem to have nothing better to do than cry about it on the forums.
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Lexandre
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Posted - 2008.01.02 06:44:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Lexandre on 02/01/2008 06:47:12
Edited by: Lexandre on 02/01/2008 06:45:13
I didn't expect to get so many informative responses. Thank you!
Yes, it is a good experience to learn how the game world works early, when you don't have much to loose.
Given what I know know I can see that it was very silly of me to trust people.
Being a newbies and seeing a popup about fleets and war is not really helpful, as you have no clue about how the agro system works. A quick tutorial about it in the beginning of the game could be helpful.
Quote:
When you get knocked on your ass (which will happen again - bet on it) you will find that if you come to the rookie forum and post asking how to improve so you don't experience the same loss again you will find a very helpful, supportive and even empathetic group. When you come here and post a whine about the consequence of a choice you made don't expect to be coddeled and told "Oh Noes! Those Bastards. How could they do that to you? You are so right - they are so childish and you are a poor, poor victim. I'm sending you 20 mil isk right now so you don't leave." It won't happen. Ever.
Usually games are made in a way that explicitly makes the gameplay challenging for everybody. Normally this means that stronger, more experienced player are discouraged from attacking weaker newbie players by the game mechanics. Obviously this is not the case in eve.
There is nothing wrong with starting a fight with a worthy opponent or taxing miners/traders or making elaborate scams for profit.
However there is also no excuse for killing a complete stranger who has nothing to give and does not present any challenge for no apparent reason and for no apparent gain.
It's like slapping a baby and then bragging to your friends: "Me so strong and manly ROAR. I slap a baby, f34r me!"
I mean COMMON, you cannot possibly be defending or rationalizing such behavior!!! What strikes me is that there are people who do it. And what strikes me even more - there are people who see nothing wrong with it.
Quote:
Other people in the game seem to have nothing better to do than cry about it on the forums.
I am a baby who was slapped, I cannot walk yet and my only real defense is to cry.
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Considered
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Posted - 2008.01.02 08:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lexandre
I mean COMMON, you cannot possibly be defending or rationalizing such behavior!!! What strikes me is that there are people who do it. And what strikes me even more - there are people who see nothing wrong with it.
quote]
If you ever come into lowsec I will do some striking.
EVE is a PVP game. Live with it. If it bothers you that much, click self-destruct on your pod.
Sorry, but you need to realise NOW that EVE will always have members who do that. You were warned with the little pop up that cleary states that you can be attacked when a gang member is at war, yet you choose to hide behind a "I don't know the mechanis of eve" shield. It stated plain and simple you could be attacked and you agreed.
What strikes many players in EVE is that there is so many whiners on the forums these days. Do you honestly think anyone cares if you loose a ship? hundreds if not thousands are blowen up daily. What makes yours special?
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Jojo Redana
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Posted - 2008.01.02 08:51:00 -
[20]
Message is clear: don't trust people, don't help anyone. Abuse people!
It's really sad because Eve could be so much more...
--
I'm lost in space |
Lexandre
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Posted - 2008.01.02 09:48:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Lexandre on 02/01/2008 09:49:42
Quote:
What strikes many players in EVE is that there is so many whiners on the forums these days. Do you honestly think anyone cares if you loose a ship? hundreds if not thousands are blowen up daily. What makes yours special?
I hear the word "whining" over and over again. I have made a post for two reasons:
1) to warn other newbie players
2) to find out if this is the normal thing for this game
I have not asked for money, any form of assistance (though all the advice is welcome) or pity. I don't even care about the cheap ship - I almost made money on it because the insurance was more than the cost of the ship. Please stop attacking and threatening me.
I was simply not sure if what happened is something that goes on in the game regularly and considered to be the norm. While many people were helpful and gave a good advice there are many irritated and angry players.
Being a new player and trying a new a game, this is not the kind of community I want to get into (no offense to all the good folks here). I will simply try some other game that encourages competition and a good sense of sportsmanship.
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Considered
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Posted - 2008.01.02 10:00:00 -
[22]
"podkilling them is as low as it gets..."
whine...
Sorry, if you accept you got killed fair and square, and that no one in eve cares if you get podded repeateadly by some guy whos got tons of isk to waste suicide ganking players that's fine. Welcome to EVE.
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Tzar'rim
Minmatar
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.01.02 10:04:00 -
[23]
Almost everyone in EVE went through this phase, the "WTF I didn't cause any trouble for anyone, why did they do this to me" phase. The REAL answer to the "WHY!!!?!?!!?!" question is; "because they can". It's as simple as that really, EVE is a PVP game in every aspect, it's complete anarchy with little to no rules. As such you will HAVE to come to grips with the fact that everyone is out to get you in the most fantastic, unexpected and low ways possible.
You're not in Stormwind sitting around a campfire and 'RPing' by telling your sad past to anyone who doesn't want to hear it. EVE caters for strong, prepared and informed players, it does NOT in any way shield uninformed/new players of any bad expierences so the trick to EVE is to expect to fall a whole lot and learn every time you do so.
Learn BEFORE you do, otherwise you'll find out what you did wrong AFTER it happened (hopefully).
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.02 10:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
How come most of the name-calling and group stereotyping I hear either in local or on the forums almost always comes from folks that don't spend most of their time in low or null sec?
The rest of your post I can accept even if I disagree in some point, but this is generally false. At least in forum there is a big group of pirates and 0.0 people seriously abusive and prone to name calling ans stereotyping as soon as someone disagree with them.
Even in game the only one that I have found going to name calling and offenses (pretty rare) are generally pirates trying to lure targets to their guns making them irate enough to try a fight between a new player in a cruiser against a veteran in a Bs.
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Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
Snake Assault
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lexandre
I hear the word "whining" over and over again. I have made a post for two reasons:
1) to warn other newbie players
2) to find out if this is the normal thing for this game
That's all fair and well. But if you don't want to sound like a whiner, don't start your post with whiners' favourite opening line which is:
Originally by: Lexandre
People in this game seem to have nothing better to do...
Accept that you'll never be invincible, accept that there'll always be someone who can outsmart you by knowing how to use game mechanics against you, and you'll be just fine.
Also note that I have not said "exploit the game mechanics". Luring, baiting, stealing, and all those things that may seem horrible to a WoW softie are standard in EVE. And often even encouraged.
Believe me, the more you get whacked, the more you know, and then one fine day, it may be your turn to teach someone something new.
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Durzel
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:17:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Durzel on 02/01/2008 11:18:59
Originally by: Westly Synpa
rule #1 in the game is never fly anthing you can't afford to lose.
rule #2 is never gang with anyone you don't trust implicity.
This game is harsh on you treat it that way. Dont gang with anyone you dont know and never help random people because it will most likley get you blown up.
Number 2 is a shame really.
I ganged with someone I'd never spoken to before simply because they said they were having problems with a mission (Worlds Collide, unsurprisingly). As it turned out everything was legit, I mopped up the kills and the other person looted... I had no clue that it was possible to game the gang system to legitimately gank people, otherwise I would've been more cautious. More fool me I guess for simply wanting to help someone for no other reason than my own altruism.
Whilst I respect the attitude that "everything goes" in EvE, it makes for a very frosty and unforgiving environment for anyone new to the game. And whilst it is also true that the harshest lessons are learnt through experience (and loss) I don't think it's necessarily healthy from a player-base perspective to allow, or perpetuate, crushing total newbies into the ground simply because you know how to exploit a game mechanic to your advantage. We were (and some - including myself - still are) noobs once.
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Nexus Kinnon
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:18:00 -
[27]
also, since I don't think anyone has mentioned it, scamming is completely allowed in EVE.
Trust no one is the bottom line 
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Gerry TheViking
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:27:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Gerry TheViking on 02/01/2008 11:32:16
Edited by: Gerry TheViking on 02/01/2008 11:31:26
Originally by: Lexandre
However there is also no excuse for killing a complete stranger who has nothing to give and does not present any challenge for no apparent reason and for no apparent gain.
It's like slapping a baby and then bragging to your friends: "Me so strong and manly ROAR. I slap a baby, f34r me!"
I strongly agree with you.
But dont forget.Being a pirate is an honourable occupation in this game and I aint talking about "Robin Hoods" from fairytales.
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Tzar'rim
Minmatar
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:33:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gerry TheViking
Originally by: Lexandre
However there is also no excuse for killing a complete stranger who has nothing to give and does not present any challenge for no apparent reason and for no apparent gain.
It's like slapping a baby and then bragging to your friends: "Me so strong and manly ROAR. I slap a baby, f34r me!"
I strongly agree with you.
I don't.
What's your reason for killing people when playing battlefield? the answer is ofcourse "because it's the purpose of the game". Does that mean that if you do so you're an axe wielding murderer IRL who should be locked up 24/7?
Also, if there is no 'honor' in shooting people in the back or kicking people who are down or almost dead, would that stop you from shooting someone in the back when playing battlefield? Or killing someone who's down to 20% health? Ofcourse not, the game is about shooting people the best way possible. Same as with EVE; it's about PVP and gaining an advantage, the best way possible.
Either accept that fact or be prepared to run into the same kidn of problems over and over again and being frustrated over it. Learn and adapt.
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Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.01.02 14:01:00 -
[30]
Ard describes it pretty well. The one thing i take exception to there is him turning scams into "so called scams". Simple fact is, if it is a technique that revolves around abusing the trust or ignorance of someone else to get something from him he would not wish to part with (money, items, the ability to blow his ship up), it's a scam plain and simple. The key difference EVE has with other games is that it doesn't forbid scams as long as they are true scams (rely on misplaced trust rather than on loopholes in mechanics designed to secure against untrusted transactions, which are classified as exploits). So you can fully and wholeheartedly admit these actions as being full fledged scams, knowing that they are an intentional part of the game world.
Of course Helen Hunt's approach to how you should react to someone scamming (or even attempting to scam) you in game is also supposed to be an intended part of the game. Especially the killing repeatedly, preferably if this traps said scammer inside a single station for a few weeks of real time, effectivly making the game unplayable for him and destroying his corp  . |
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