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Piracier	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:14:00 - [1] After writing my petition on 18.12 i have received the answer few days later. As always Blabla sorry for your loss, but the server logs dont indicate blabla. When i have asked if i could see the server log our policy does not blabla. My question is: Is there an organ or comitte which can gain access to these logs and can i or CCP get another party to look up these matter. Bcs until now i now hat has happend and CCP is like executer and controller himself. And it looks like that i have to accept everything they say to me without a possibility to see the prove? Have a nice day
Zaqar	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:20:00 - [2] Short version: Its their game, they can do what they want.
Westly Synpa GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:22:00 - [3] Not constructive - Navigator
Sleepkevert Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:22:00 - [4] Edited by: Sleepkevert on 07/01/2008 10:23:47 I suggest you read this if you want to know what CCP re-reimburses before asking stupid questions. And especially this section: Quote: Losses caused due to disconnection as a direct result of a server node drop or an unannounced server downtime may be reimbursed pending investigation by, and at the discretion of, a GM. Ships lost due to lag or non-server related disconnection will not be reimbursed. _______ Sign my sig!
Piracier	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:39:00 - [5] Yes i have read this before posting. And i have lost my ship due to the fact that the server node has dropped. So i have suffered a losing due to the server side, so the normal way is it that the causer reimburse my loss. And now i see that CCP is the causer and the judge. So you may guess to whose benefit he will adjucate. And there are even any possibilitys to seek a fairfull decision and of course noone have the right to overcome the CCP
Iracham Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:44:00 - [6] Ask for your petition to be escalated.
Plib	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:54:00 - [7] Learn not to care. Never fly what you can't afford to lose and if the item is rare keep a backup. Whining on the forums was never an acceptable tactic
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:55:00 - [8] Originally by: Iracham Ask for your petition to be escalated. And when that fails, repetition for any reason you can think of. Sure people whine that your clogging the system blah blah blah, well boo hoo them. CCP are happy to take your money using the power of the internet, but they're not prepared to accept any responsibility for stuff they can get away with blaming on the internet. Tidy little arrangement. It's not like they have to send Elves out to build the damm ship replacement is it? But you're expected to have to grind for x hours to replace it. Fingers to CCP's attitude frankly. They waste your time, you waste theirs in response. -- Death of an insidious dictator Birth of a new one
AntonioBanderas Empirius Enigmus Navy Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:10:00 - [9] forget your ship. period i had ships lost doe to lag, some of my alliance mates got their ships back, i got '** off'. I've escalated it but ** it. if i get my ship back i'll selfdestruct it, jsut for fun I can say ASS \o/ yay!!!
Hul'ka Minmatar BALKAN EXPRESS	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Plib Learn not to care. Never fly what you can't afford to lose and if the item is rare keep a backup. Whining on the forums was never an acceptable tactic there's whining, and there's legit whining. No mattr how insignificant loss it's still a loss if it's lost due to server error. And when normal methods don't work, like petitioning, it is also legit to let the world know and try to search your answers elsewhere. It's easy for CCP to counter this, just need one of the GM tell us exactly what happened and give us some proof.. And they should response to every such thread with some kind of answer. --------- I want to phew phew
Kerdrak 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:16:00 - [11] Yeah, the GM's are broken. All depends on how well you construct your lie because they really don't check logs... I remember when my entire gang crashed while camping a gate and a few hostiles blowed us. We all filled petition and all received their ships but me, only because I said the truth of what happened. Never ever type "lag" in a petition. They have a filter that sends petitions with "lag" to the "our logs show blabla..." machine. ________________________________________
Johnny Gurkha Villains	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:19:00 - [12] Edited by: Johnny Gurkha on 07/01/2008 11:19:17 Originally by: Sleepkevert Edited by: Sleepkevert on 07/01/2008 10:23:47 I suggest you read this if you want to know what CCP re-reimburses before asking stupid questions That link is a crock of **** tbh: a. Characters deleted either accidentally or intentionally cannot be restored..... I recycled this character in a fit of drunken rage about 6 months ago and lost a hella lot of SP in the process. A month or two of boredom later messing with an alt I petitioned for the return and et voila it was reimbursed.... my one and only reimbursment and a grateful one at that
Tagg'net	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:41:00 - [13] I think the GMS do an amazin job.. I lost 1.3bil worth of ship to lag on the server side just 10min until DT & it was restored for that I am grateful & wish all of the GMS a Good year :)
GinoShin Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:47:00 - [14] The OP is right its bull** i spent two weeks saving up for two battleships ratting and they were destroyed due to the docking bug (50 secs and i still couldnt dock even though i hadnt launched drones or engaged..) So how much do I pay for this ty game ú10 a month and ive lost all my assets in two weeks so thats ú5 NOW I get paid about ú6 an hour so for not only have i wasted 28 hours of my life ratting ive also had to clean ** off a toilet for an entire hour to pay for this buggy game.
Sleepkevert Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Johnny Gurkha Edited by: Johnny Gurkha on 07/01/2008 11:19:17 Originally by: Sleepkevert Edited by: Sleepkevert on 07/01/2008 10:23:47 I suggest you read this if you want to know what CCP re-reimburses before asking stupid questions That link is a crock of **** tbh: a. Characters deleted either accidentally or intentionally cannot be restored..... I recycled this character in a fit of drunken rage about 6 months ago and lost a hella lot of SP in the process. A month or two of boredom later messing with an alt I petitioned for the return and et voila it was reimbursed.... my one and only reimbursment and a grateful one at that Lol... Well, that link is CCP's offical statement on reimbursement... Looks like it needs some editing on the character thing _______ Sign my sig!
Shenko Minara	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:02:00 - [16] Well, I petitioned a loss due to a desync. 6 weeks to come to a resolution and after an escalation it was just closed. Two subsequent petitions referring to the first got cookie-cutter responses and were also just closed. Sorry, but the GMs in this game are uneducated and quite frankly a joke, much like the company they work for. -- 99% of Eve-o posters should stop posting. This probably includes me, but definitely includes you.
sesanti Minmatar Universal Exports FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:48:00 - [17] On the other hand I have never had any problems with my petitions. They were all solved smoothly and fast. Cheers for the GMs! _______________________________________________ The ShadowMaster - <I am a guy... don't mind the portrait>
Mangala Solaris Caldari Sanctuary Aegis Consortium	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:52:00 - [18] Originally by: sesanti On the other hand I have never had any problems with my petitions. They were all solved smoothly and fast. Cheers for the GMs! QFT. Ship returns, stuck petitions, even none standard responses to my petitons of isk advertisers and such. I have found so far the GM's to be a reasonably good bunch. -------
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.07 13:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Piracier Yes i have read this before posting. And i have lost my ship due to the fact that the server node has dropped. So i have suffered a losing due to the server side, so the normal way is it that the causer reimburse my loss. And now i see that CCP is the causer and the judge. So you may guess to whose benefit he will adjucate. And there are even any possibilitys to seek a fairfull decision and of course noone have the right to overcome the CCP That is really absurd. For CCP giving back your ship, giving back nothing or giving you a titan with officer set up has 0 impact (beside ****ing off or pleasing 1 costumer). For them all you EVE possession are bit they can change at leisure. It is not like they had to physically build the item to give it to you. So the only reason why they refuse your petition is because they feel you have not right to get the item back. The evaluation can be wrong, but there is no reason for a malicous intent as you are suggesting.
Shenko Minara	Posted - 2008.01.07 13:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Venkul Mul So the only reason why they refuse your petition is because they feel you have not right to get the item back. The evaluation can be wrong, but there is no reason for a malicous intent as you are suggesting. Yeah. Apart from the fact you'll have to grind up the ISK to replace the item you lost due to some dodgy bug that the GMs can't recognise in their 'logs'. And of course in order to grind up that ISK you'll probably need to buy another timecard. So yeah, they have no interest in automatically giving stuff back, even when you deserve it. :] -- 99% of Eve-o posters should stop posting. This probably includes me, but definitely includes you.
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.01.07 13:52:00 - [21] you wouldnt understand the log anyway, dont fly what you cant afford to loose and try not to blame every loss on the server.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:02:00 - [22] Originally by: Venkul Mul So the only reason why they refuse your petition is because they feel you have not right to get the item back. The evaluation can be wrong, but there is no reason for a malicous intent as you are suggesting. Well...not on their side. On his side it helps salve his poor, bruised ego a bit. Classic modern response to adversity. It's always someone else' fault. 'They' have always got it in for 'us'. Truth is GMs cannot (and should not) reimburse without evidence. If they say they have no evidence then they don't and that's that. Whittering on about conspiracies is just pandering to feelings of self-importance whether it's in-game or real-life. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Piracier	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:19:00 - [23] Right so where is the evidence that this was client based issue? Answer: none!!! During the fight the system was not accessible, noone could jump in, if you wanted to relog then you also couldnt. Ant this was the situation for all people in the system. ISP problem doesnt work here bcs the people which were engaged in battle were around the world, also client base error wont work here all clients had the same problem. So the only possibility would be error on server side. When asked to look upon this matter, sorry no evidence, which i dont trust when asked to look upon the matter by myself, sorry can policy forbids. If they can trust me as player, why dont they have someone else who has the right to look upon the server logs? And yes i can and i should raise my voice if i think that something is fishy, bcs simply i am the customer. The same as you are, if you receive some wrong doings and dont raise you voice, then it is you fault if you then sit in the ****. I can afford to lose ships, but now it isnt going about ships its goes about the fact that i am being given a mass of pottage, and i simple have to acc it?
sesanti Minmatar Universal Exports FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:23:00 - [24] Can I have your stuff? (Well, if you can get any back from a petition, that is ) _______________________________________________ The ShadowMaster - <I am a guy... don't mind the portrait>
Cameron Vayle	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:39:00 - [25] Originally by: GinoShin The OP is right its bull** i spent two weeks saving up for two battleships ratting and they were destroyed due to the docking bug (50 secs and i still couldnt dock even though i hadnt launched drones or engaged..) So how much do I pay for this ty game ú10 a month and ive lost all my assets in two weeks so thats ú5 NOW I get paid about ú6 an hour so for not only have i wasted 28 hours of my life ratting ive also had to clean ** off a toilet for an entire hour to pay for this buggy game. 1) No one forces you to play the game. 2) CCP is not required to give you anything back when your ship is destroyed. 3) When you leave the game I don't think anyone will notice. Bye...bye
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:43:00 - [26] Originally by: Cameron Vayle Originally by: GinoShin The OP is right its bull** i spent two weeks saving up for two battleships ratting and they were destroyed due to the docking bug (50 secs and i still couldnt dock even though i hadnt launched drones or engaged..) So how much do I pay for this ty game ú10 a month and ive lost all my assets in two weeks so thats ú5 NOW I get paid about ú6 an hour so for not only have i wasted 28 hours of my life ratting ive also had to clean off a toilet for an entire hour to pay for this buggy game. 1) No one forces you to play the game. 2) CCP is not required to give you anything back when your ship is destroyed. 3) When you leave the game I don't think anyone will notice. Bye...bye See this attitude right here....? Can we call this a ERTANK? I've seen armor tanks, I've seen shield tanks, I've ever seen Honour and Fear tanks. But recently I've met a growing number of people that I would never shoot at because they are just such *** **ers I wouldn't play Eve with them if we were the last two people on Tranquility. Seems to go hand in hand with being part of rather large alliances, but certainly isn't limited to it... -- Death of an insidious dictator Birth of a new one
Cameron Vayle	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:43:00 - [27] Originally by: Shenko Minara Well, I petitioned a loss due to a desync. 6 weeks to come to a resolution and after an escalation it was just closed. Two subsequent petitions referring to the first got cookie-cutter responses and were also just closed. Sorry, but the GMs in this game are uneducated and quite frankly a joke, much like the company they work for. Wow. And you still pay to play the game? Makes one wonder then who is "uneducated and quite frankly a joke". I know that if I am not happy with something and the people that are in charge refuse to do anything then I take my business elsewhere. Guess that has to do with common sense.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:55:00 - [28] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/01/2008 14:57:16 quite frankly ccp's EULA will be quite a thorn in their own side eventually. why? a) you can't discuss moderation b) you cannot view the information that caused the moderation/reimbursement or whichever other decision, so you have no way of knowing if it was correct or based on a mistake. (which becomes increasingly relevant with a forum moderator sticky'ing no less than two rant posts in caod yesturday by mistake). c) ccp is dependent on the players playing the game. d) the players of the game puts great effort and quite a bit of rl money via many years of subscription into this. with all this, when actions are taken and you can't see the proof, and you can't discuss the action, eventhough it involves actions taken on things you yourself have payed for with rl money, dedication and/or both. then ccp is just begging for someone to be fed up with it and take them to court to get a ruling that forces ccp to reformulate the EULA and reimburse their losses, regardless of what the EULA says. why? cause when people put real life money into a game through subscription, and spend years on playing it, and loose their stuff, or loose their character through incidental biomass or through identity theft without reimbursement, or get banned or whatever the action is, and not able to see the data that was the cause of such a decision. then that is not acceptable. and yes ccp may think that they can just pay a lawyer to write a sneaky legal document etcetera. but if they don't start taking customer support and _need for information_ regarding the game aswell as actions taken, more seriously. then they'll eventually get a dose of _reality_ outside of ccp hq. ps: i have never had any action taken against me, i am speaking of this in general, as a friendly warning to ccp and to present a different perspective. you may also call this a symbolic preemptive strike for the better of eve in general. before a _real_ preemptive strike is taken by one or several individual parties as a result of the current, quite frankly unwise customer relation policies.
Cameron Vayle	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:59:00 - [29] Originally by: 7shining7one7c) ccp is dependent on the players playing the game. d) the players of the game puts great effort and quite a bit of rl money via many years of subscription into this. with all this, when actions are taken and you can't see the proof, and you can't discuss the action, eventhough it involves actions taken on things you yourself have payed for with rl money, dedication and/or both. then ccp is just begging for someone to be fed up with it and take them to court to get a ruling that forces ccp to reformulate the EULA. why? cause when people put real life money into a game through subscription, and spend years on playing it, and loose their stuff, or loose their character through incidental biomass or through identity theft without reimbursement, or get banned or whatever the action is, and not able to see the data that was the cause of such a decision. then that is not acceptable. and yes ccp may think that they can just pay a lawyer to write a sneaky legal document etcetera. but if they don't start taking customer support and _need for information_ regarding the game aswell as actions taken, more seriously. then they'll eventually get a dose of _reality_ outside of ccp hq. ps: i have never had any action taken against me, i am speaking of this in general, as a friendly warning to ccp and to present a different perspective. you may also call this a symbolic preemptive strike for the better of eve in general. before a _real_ preemptive strike is taken by one or several individual parties as a result of the current, quite frankly unwise customer relation policies.[/quote Care to tell me another game that gives you stuff back if... 1) you die for game mechanics. 2) you delete your character in a drunken rage. 3) you lose items due to lag ect.... Can't think of one myself.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.01.07 15:07:00 - [30] I'm not talking about lag reimbursements. but if you loose your char or similar severe things like that, like bans etc. without seing all the evidence and being allowed to debate it with ccp without censorship, regardless of the EULA it's ccp's responsibility to protect your investment or reimburse you fully, they should be taken to court immediately if they refuse. there is no argument good enough to deny this responsibiliy especially in an mmo. what if someone went on your bank account and transferred all your rl money to a different account just for spite. (or biomassed your main char to take an eve example). if there was no reimbursement of your lifelong investement regardless of how it happened, then obviously something must be done. we live in a democracy afterall, not a dictatorship. and eventhough ccp might behave like one, there's this thing called _the real world_ that can come and kick their ass if they get out of line now you begin to see why they need to change their eula or they'll be dragged to court eventually _and loose_. untill it's changed it's a matter of _when_ not if.

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