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Shemaul	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:29:00 - [1] Here's my story: Caldari Navy pilot, used to do mission in a 2 team NH's on 0.5 sys for a good agent (lvl4 qual 18). Enough money, crappy loots most of the time and ONE OFFICER ENCOUNTER! After get bored and rich enough, we decide to move on a low sec sys. We found a good agent in 0.2 so we move. We stay there almost one month, just to raise the standing with the agent. Result: on about 80 lvl4 missions, almost same reward (maybe 100/200k plus) same crappy loot, NO OFFICERS and, as expected, a pirate corp intercepted us and destroy our 2 Nighthawk. After this experience, i need a word from kill-mission runners: there is only a good reason to move in low sec, risking yor ship and pod, when if u stay ABSOLUTELY SAFE in 0.5 u get the same stuff and money?
IDF187	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:37:00 - [2] Actually, lower the sec. status=higher bounties. Can t say its worth it though, considering you are bound to loose you ship, so say fully fitted command ship oooh 260 million, you only get alltogether MORE in bounties 100mil then loose your ship, well math is simple.
Shemaul	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:54:00 - [3] Originally by: IDF187 Actually, lower the sec. status=higher bounties. Man i can tell u this is fantasy. The difference between 0.5 and 0.2 is none. I check it: same ship, same bounties. The only thing that raised up (100k/200k max) is the final reward from the agent. Actually i can see only one difference between missioning in empire or low sec: safety vs ship/pod destroyed. Running mission in 0.5 is the best option. And this is a shame, because this game should always work whit the rule: higher risk, higher cash.
IDF187	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:59:00 - [4] Originally by: Shemaul Originally by: IDF187 Actually, lower the sec. status=higher bounties. Man i can tell u this is fantasy. The difference between 0.5 and 0.2 is none. I check it: same ship, same bounties. The only thing that raised up (100k/200k max) is the final reward from the agent. Actually i can see only one difference between missioning in empire or low sec: safety vs ship/pod destroyed. Running mission in 0.5 is the best option. And this is a shame, because this game should always work whit the rule: higher risk, higher cash. Well you have answered your own question then, stay in 0.5. I am, and not even thinking of missio running in low sec. Catching pirates who hunt mission runners with their pants down in low sec, now thats another story
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:01:00 - [5] Eighty L4 missions before somone finally engages you? And you are complaining? LOL . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Shemaul	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:22:00 - [6] I guess u miss the point of the 3d. I'm not complaining at all about piracy risks (i have an alt and he' a pirate). More: i guess there so few chances to make some sort of small scale pvp tha hunting mission runners is a good thing. Of course my fitting was pure pve, we had a pvp/pve vulture ready to make missions in low sec, but we went there just to test if low sec missions are worth it. THE POINT OF THREAD IS: CCP do nothing to make mission runners move to low sec. If there truly are chances to live "high risk, high profits", i keep making mission in low sec, with all the danger i'll have to face. If it was so: more reward for mission runnes, some chance to learn pvp engagements vs pirate player, and more fun for pirates too, cause the number of encounter with mission runners will raise drastically. But as it is now, noone will risk engagement to gain just 100k more than a 0.5 sys mission.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:30:00 - [7] Naaah. If you are already willing to risk your skin then skip the zoo in low sec and hit straight to 0.0. You get better isk in both hi sec (pimped ride in missions) and in 0.0 (better amount of LP or alliance controlled 0.0 safer than low sec).
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:31:00 - [8] Again--you ran EIGHTY unmolested missions making conservatively 2.4 BILLION ISK (average 30 mill/mission conservatively) and you are complaining? And you use this to fund a pirate alt? And you still complain? Sheer and utter LOL . The buckets of mission runners in losec also make hash of your complaints. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Ludi Tomina	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:53:00 - [9] Same problem here, i ran lev3 in high-sec and low-sec, didnt notice anythig different in quality of loot, or salvage,or bounties, certainly no faction/officer rats. Only difference is final agent reward (ISK and LP slightly higher in low-sec). So for power mission runner, I would say that there is no real reason to run them in low-sec. What you gain in 100+ missions, you will lose to pirates. Take your pick.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:09:00 - [10] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Again--you ran EIGHTY unmolested missions making conservatively 2.4 BILLION ISK (average 30 mill/mission conservatively) and you are complaining? And you use this to fund a pirate alt? And you still complain? Sheer and utter LOL . The buckets of mission runners in losec also make hash of your complaints. I think you're missing the point, still. At 100-200k extra per mission that's about 12 million for eighty missions. 12 million vs the cost of two Nighthawks that wouldn't have been lost in high-sec. You get it now? Low-Sec missions are bogus. Don't do it. Don't let your friends do it.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:11:00 - [11] LP should be significantly higher, considering there is quite a bit of difference in .1 difference already.
Shemaul	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:13:00 - [12] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Again--you ran EIGHTY unmolested missions making conservatively 2.4 BILLION ISK (average 30 mill/mission conservatively) and you are complaining? And you use this to fund a pirate alt? And you still complain? Sheer and utter LOL . The buckets of mission runners in losec also make hash of your complaints. Man i guess u have problem reading my posts. Really. I'm not complaining about nothing except the isk difference between 0.5 or below. I can write it in spanish, or french or italian if it helps you understand that this is not a complain 3d. Anyway, reading your post, it's pretty peaceful that u don't know anything about the stuff you're talking about. So, no prob mate, and fly safe! @Carniflex: thx for the line! I guess u are right. Low sec are useless atm. I'll move for sure to 0.0. Same risk but higher prizes! ;) It is anyway a sad thing, cause low sec sys are good for nothing.The main theme in EVE is Empire or 0.0, no other way.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Qui Shon LP should be significantly higher, considering there is quite a bit of difference in .1 difference already. It is slightly higher, yes. Unfortunately - that one time you get probed out and had to warp, had your mission critical loot stolen, had to wait out a gate camp or were otherwise inconvenienced and unable to mission for an extended amount of time made all that "extra" seem a lot less significant. Maybe it even screwed your standings. Low-sec: Don't do it.
Shemaul	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:26:00 - [14] Originally by: Qui Shon LP should be significantly higher, considering there is quite a bit of difference in .1 difference already. Not as much as i hope. Absolutely not worth the risk you'll face. The biggest ones (extravaganza, wc or similar) gives you no more than 1000 lp plus (7k vs 8k lp). I repeat, who gives a damn about risks and losses, the only point is: 10 miss 0.5: "n" money, "n" LP. 10 miss 0.2: "n" money plus a couple of millions, "n" LP plus 5,6k. Between this thin difference, there is the chance to loose ship and pod. Only one way to say this: the trick ain't worth the time and risks.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:26:00 - [15] From what I know the differenc in missions between low sec and high sec are only based on the Missions (not bounty) reward in basic pay, bonus and LP. Plus some of the most lucrative mission are available only in low sec or are significatively more common there (the different extravaganza, for example) and the maximum quality of the agents is higher. Some question about your OP: a OFFICER spawn in high sec during a mission? in what mission you had this incredible find? Or you mean a commander spawn in some encounter site (completly different rewards, it is the equivalent of a low level faction spawn)? In low level the rats have a significantly better value that in high sec, but not enough to make it worthwhile to rat there as the risk of ship loss is significantly higher too. Exploration on the otehr hand can have good rewards.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Shemaul Originally by: Qui Shon LP should be significantly higher, considering there is quite a bit of difference in .1 difference already. Not as much as i hope. Absolutely not worth the risk you'll face. The biggest ones (extravaganza, wc or similar) gives you no more than 1000 lp plus (7k vs 8k lp). You were running some 4 +18 Caldari agent in 0.5? and for all I know the LP reward in high sec is capped ad about 5.000 and teh big missions are rearely given out.
Shemaul	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Venkul Mul From what I know the differenc in missions between low sec and high sec are only based on the Missions (not bounty) reward in basic pay, bonus and LP. Plus some of the most lucrative mission are available only in low sec or are significatively more common there (the different extravaganza, for example) and the maximum quality of the agents is higher. Some question about your OP: a OFFICER spawn in high sec during a mission? in what mission you had this incredible find? Or you mean a commander spawn in some encounter site (completly different rewards, it is the equivalent of a low level faction spawn)? In low level the rats have a significantly better value that in high sec, but not enough to make it worthwhile to rat there as the risk of ship loss is significantly higher too. Exploration on the otehr hand can have good rewards. Let me remember... It was a World Collide in 0.5 (i though it was scripted like the extras). Don't remember the name of the officer. 4,5m bounty (BS). valuable drop: Dread Gurista Shield Booster (120m sold). This should be correct, but i'm at office atm. I'll check home if what i posted is correct, but i'm quite sure.
Shemaul	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:33:00 - [18] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Shemaul Originally by: Qui Shon LP should be significantly higher, considering there is quite a bit of difference in .1 difference already. Not as much as i hope. Absolutely not worth the risk you'll face. The biggest ones (extravaganza, wc or similar) gives you no more than 1000 lp plus (7k vs 8k lp). You were running some 4 +18 Caldari agent in 0.5? and for all I know the LP reward in high sec is capped ad about 5.000 and teh big missions are rearely given out. If they change something in Trinity i still don't know, but missions like extras or wc gives me a lot more than 5k LP.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.07 13:18:00 - [19] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 07/01/2008 13:21:12 Originally by: Shemaul Originally by: RuleoftheBone Again--you ran EIGHTY unmolested missions making conservatively 2.4 BILLION ISK (average 30 mill/mission conservatively) and you are complaining? And you use this to fund a pirate alt? And you still complain? Sheer and utter LOL . The buckets of mission runners in losec also make hash of your complaints. Man i guess u have problem reading my posts. Really. I'm not complaining about nothing except the isk difference between 0.5 or below. I can write it in spanish, or french or italian if it helps you understand that this is not a complain 3d. Anyway, reading your post, it's pretty peaceful that u don't know anything about the stuff you're talking about. So, no prob mate, and fly safe! @Carniflex: thx for the line! I guess u are right. Low sec are useless atm. I'll move for sure to 0.0. Same risk but higher prizes! ;) It is anyway a sad thing, cause low sec sys are good for nothing.The main theme in EVE is Empire or 0.0, no other way. Then stay in high sec until CCP allow you to earn new and valuable pixels at a better rate of return. Thanks but a lot of folks enjoy losec for a relatively lag-free environment and would prefer to keep it that way. By shifting all the rewards to losec CCP would just create the losec equal to current lagfest hisec mission pockets-and of course the endless whines form those getting ganked would increase exponentially requiring CCP to put on more staff to police these silly boards . No offense...but you crapped out (not meant in a mean way-reference to bad luck shooting dice) lossing your mission ships after 80 previous trouble-free runs. And hey...Lofty29 and others are more than capable of ruining your hisec experience as well . EDITBusting mission runners is bread and butter to me. I have a pretty darn good idea of what those L4's you are running generate in terms of ISK. And certain very valuable losec agents offer significantly increased rewards compared to what you find in hisec. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.07 13:36:00 - [20] Edited by: Andrue on 07/01/2008 13:38:48 Originally by: Shemaul THE POINT OF THREAD IS: CCP do nothing to make mission runners move to low sec. Unfortunately you are missing an even bigger point. CCP cannot make mission runners do anything. This is a game. It's entirely voluntary. If the mission runners aren't able to play the game the way they want to they will leave. All that CCP can do is try to entice them. This a discussion that I've seen and taken part in many times over the years and it always comes down to a mismatch in game-styles. Hard core low-sec residents want more player targets to blow up. Hard core high-sec residents don't want to lose their ships and mostly don't have any interest in blowing up other people's ships either. I'll also add that for an experienced L4 mission runner low-sec isn't worth it. Such players are rich and content and don't need to earn huge rewards. They are generally happy to diddle around chatting, playing the market a bit and relaxing. I don't need to earn hundreds of millions a week because it'd only join the rest in my wallet. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Shemaul Originally by: Venkul Mul From what I know the differenc in missions between low sec and high sec are only based on the Missions (not bounty) reward in basic pay, bonus and LP. Plus some of the most lucrative mission are available only in low sec or are significatively more common there (the different extravaganza, for example) and the maximum quality of the agents is higher. Some question about your OP: a OFFICER spawn in high sec during a mission? in what mission you had this incredible find? Or you mean a commander spawn in some encounter site (completly different rewards, it is the equivalent of a low level faction spawn)? In low level the rats have a significantly better value that in high sec, but not enough to make it worthwhile to rat there as the risk of ship loss is significantly higher too. Exploration on the otehr hand can have good rewards. Let me remember... It was a World Collide in 0.5 (i though it was scripted like the extras). Don't remember the name of the officer. 4,5m bounty (BS). valuable drop: Dread Gurista Shield Booster (120m sold). This should be correct, but i'm at office atm. I'll check home if what i posted is correct, but i'm quite sure. Faction item. It was a named NPC or a Overseer, but you find those even in the training 10 episode mission for new player. There is a chance they give better items, and you were lucky with the booster, but please don't call it officer, as they are a different order of magnitude.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: RuleoftheBone Again--you ran EIGHTY unmolested missions making conservatively 2.4 BILLION ISK (average 30 mill/mission conservatively) and you are complaining? And you use this to fund a pirate alt? And you still complain? Sheer and utter LOL . The buckets of mission runners in losec also make hash of your complaints. I think you're missing the point, still. At 100-200k extra per mission that's about 12 million for eighty missions. 12 million vs the cost of two Nighthawks that wouldn't have been lost in high-sec. You get it now? Low-Sec missions are bogus. Don't do it. Don't let your friends do it. While the 2.4 b isk estimation is grossly inflated (not all missions are blockades or extravaganzas), the 100-200k more per mission is grossly underestimated, as well. As an user of the best low-sec and best high-sec agents, I can say that low-sec gives about 2 more millions and 4000 LP in reward (let say that it's equivalent to 5M isks) for big missions, and about half that for the average small mission. And there's more big missions in low-sec. Not worth losing 2 NightHawks every month over it, but for a solo player with standard T2 stuff, it's worth it. And you can do a lot more than 80 missions in a month, if you put your mind into it. ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.07 15:33:00 - [23] There is a signficant difference bewteen running missions for a mediocre agent in 0.5 and a good agent in 0.2, enough to make the latter much more desirable if the risks were the same. Unfortunately, they aren't. Quote: Absolutely not worth the risk you'll face. Quite true. If you're looking to earn more than you do in high sec missions and are willing to take some risks, I'd recommend you move on out to 0.0. Still, if you managed to do 80 L4 missions before you got jumped, that's pretty good. I would have called it a day long before then, thrilled that my gamble had paid off and netted me a lot of extra isk without getting my ship blown up.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.07 15:36:00 - [24] Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 07/01/2008 13:38:48 Originally by: Shemaul THE POINT OF THREAD IS: CCP do nothing to make mission runners move to low sec. Unfortunately you are missing an even bigger point. CCP cannot make mission runners do anything. This is a game. It's entirely voluntary. If the mission runners aren't able to play the game the way they want to they will leave. All that CCP can do is try to entice them. This a discussion that I've seen and taken part in many times over the years and it always comes down to a mismatch in game-styles. Hard core low-sec residents want more player targets to blow up. Hard core high-sec residents don't want to lose their ships and mostly don't have any interest in blowing up other people's ships either. I'll also add that for an experienced L4 mission runner low-sec isn't worth it. Such players are rich and content and don't need to earn huge rewards. They are generally happy to diddle around chatting, playing the market a bit and relaxing. I don't need to earn hundreds of millions a week because it'd only join the rest in my wallet. Then if the ISK really doesn't matter to you, why would you care whether you're running level 4s in a BS/CS or level 2s in an AF? The level of challenge would be the same (not that much). hi-sec level 4s give so much money that they're practically an exploit. I should know - I've just spent a few days doing them. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Newbear	Posted - 2008.01.07 15:44:00 - [25] Has anyone mentioned agent quality? Too lazy to read all the posts above. When you change agents new agent usually does not like you as much as old agent. Lowers the reward. I'd say on an lazy average you make 20m per hr including time wasted looting/salvaging in annancale, a .1 system. You can heckle away the pirates pretty easy. Most of the pies i've heckled are emotionally fragile. Click here for my High Security POS Service
Kessiaan	Posted - 2008.01.07 17:01:00 - [26] Edited by: Kessiaan on 07/01/2008 17:02:12 Also, you have an alt account, just park them in a shuttle or a cloaked ship 100kms away from the gate. Makes lowsec mission running virtually risk-free since even if they find you and you miss their probes you'll see them coming. Reject non-deadspace missions, of course. Yet another of the many advantages alt-account owners have. ----- My in Eve Profile My BattleClinic Page
abbagabba Gallente Monster Raving Loonies	Posted - 2008.01.07 17:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 07/01/2008 13:38:48 I'll also add that for an experienced L4 mission runner low-sec isn't worth it. Such players are rich and content and don't need to earn huge rewards. They are generally happy to diddle around chatting, playing the market a bit and relaxing. I don't need to earn hundreds of millions a week because it'd only join the rest in my wallet. This is the point, it shouldnt be possible to 'diddle around chatting' (im presuming this means 'run level 4 missions a bit slower than normal whilst chatting and playing the markets'). At the moment this is all too possible. These missions are a doddle for a 1 year old character in a good ship and are in need of a serious nerf in my opinion. You are right in that in some sense we do have two different types of player, but the easy availability of isk in high sec affects all the players, and those who believe in the mantra risk vs reward feel like they are being slapped in the face. When alliances with good safe 0.0 space still have carebear members grinding for isk in high sec, you know you have a problem. To grind isk and then pvp knowing you are going to come out a financial loser in the end seems a strange way to play the game to me, although I realise this is probably the most common playstyle (obviously alliances have to pvp to maintain their space and profit making potential). I think it is partly this attitude that is moving Eve away a healthy balance of pirates vs miners/mission runners/ratters in low sec and alliance vs alliance in 0.0, with everyone intending to profit from all of their activities.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.01.07 18:16:00 - [28] Originally by: Shemaul Result: on about 80 lvl4 missions, almost same reward (maybe 100/200k plus) Something is wrong with those numbers. What is the quality of the losec agent? What is the effective quality of both agents? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Murath Kalth Minmatar Ripping Yarns Inc	Posted - 2008.01.07 18:32:00 - [29] Or another way of looking at it (from someone who lives in lo-sec)... Hi-sec is broken giving too Much Reward for Very little risk. Sometimes Pleasure is a sin But to Sin is Always a Pleasure
Daelin Blackleaf	Posted - 2008.01.07 18:37:00 - [30] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Thanks but a lot of folks enjoy losec for a relatively lag-free environment and would prefer to keep it that way. By shifting all the rewards to losec CCP would just create the losec equal to current lagfest hisec mission pockets-and of course the endless whines form those getting ganked would increase exponentially requiring CCP to put on more staff to police these silly boards . By the same token can we get pirate missions, 10/10 exploration complexes, and high end ores moved to hi-sec? They are causing too much lag in 0.0. Reasonable rewards in lo-sec would lead to more people in lo-sec. We're not talking Motsu numbers, firstly there are a lot of 4:20 agents in lo-sec compared to the scant few 4:18's in hi-sec, secondly most carebears still wouldn't take the risk as they just plain don't like getting shot at. More people in lo-sec, more targets for the many pirate corps that whine endlessly on the forums. As for people whining about losing their ship in lo-sec... seriously, we have those people already and they get shot down pretty quick both in space and the forums.

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