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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
SirMoric	Posted - 2008.01.08 00:58:00 - [31] Nice job, keep it comming! rgds
Xaziar Nortocus Knights of the Burger King YTMND.	Posted - 2008.01.08 01:11:00 - [32] Edited by: Xaziar Nortocus on 08/01/2008 01:12:36 Originally by: Malcanis Asking for 300 vs 400 battles to be lag-free may not be realistic with current technology. I beg to differ...its called Load Balancing...of course if there were MORE servers added to the cluster...we may have an increase of performance...oh...and a larger pipe...
Ezekiel Nailo Minmatar Deathwatch Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.08 01:15:00 - [33] Originally by: Xaziar Nortocus Originally by: Malcanis Asking for 300 vs 400 battles to be lag-free may not be realistic with current technology. Its called Load Balancing... he does have a point there and its also called GO MAC i mean INTEL ROCKS.... (ps dear ccp i must request that you remove all forms of comunisim from the game as it is offensive and debilitating to the free market system that we are trying to up hold. Case and point getting local spammed by the same guy under a new noob every 10min for www.aznwhateveriskbuyfromme.com <--- comunisim at work. When you have a state behind defrauding the rest of the universe target these guys. That and them dirty imigrants (Build a wall (on second note comunisim got one thing right)) But yes we have the technology we can rebuild him.
Dreeepa Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.01.08 01:29:00 - [34] /signed The grafics are a beatuy now. The game has grown significantly beyond all dreams. Seeing 40.000+ character (-alts = maybe 20.000-30.000?) online is really an advancement. The new grafx will channel even more newcomers. You have done well CCP, but now its time to take the next step! Multithreaded UI!! No more interface lags when the client waits for server data! Seperate the data processing from the local UI! Give us a fluid, smooth and responsive UI, like cough WoW cough has it. Thats all I can wish for in 2008. ____________________________________ touch the legacy code, touch the legacy code!!!
OneSock Crown Industries	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:44:00 - [35] Originally by: Andargor theWise In a sok thread \o/ I agree with you in essence, but practically I don't think they can reassign resources that easily. Different skill sets and all that. I don't think they need to reassign much resource. There's plenty of issues to resolve accross the board. Take game design for instance. The directional scanner needs an overhaul and as for exploration, surely there has to be a better way than a diceroll chance based system. Lot of stuff could be improved and redesigned, in addition to bug fixing.
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:48:00 - [36] I agree. Many improvements and features have rekindled my love of this game. The increased subscription numbers should show just how true this is, but all the same it is important to let you know Thanks CCP ! ♥ DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
Fenderson Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2008.01.08 13:06:00 - [37] this same post comes up like once every month or 2. anyone who has ever worked in software development can tell you the idea of "redirecting all resources to fixes" is rediculous and impossible, and would not get the major issues fixed any sooner. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Oh dear, how about we all calm down a bit instead?
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.08 13:36:00 - [38] Originally by: Fenderson this same post comes up like once every month or 2. anyone who has ever worked in software development can tell you the idea of "redirecting all resources to fixes" is rediculous and impossible, and would not get the major issues fixed any sooner. See: Originally by: OneSock I don't think they need to reassign much resource. There's plenty of issues to resolve accross the board. Take game design for instance. The directional scanner needs an overhaul and as for exploration, surely there has to be a better way than a diceroll chance based system. Lot of stuff could be improved and redesigned, in addition to bug fixing. Originally by: ISD Cortes You're at liberty to use the rolling sig you had, as long as there's no chimeras covering the nether regions of voluptuous females.
Ironnight Caldari x13 When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.08 14:00:00 - [39] The Overview, lag in 40 man battles, corp interface, just a few things I would like to see fixed or improved. The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.
Reiisha Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence	Posted - 2008.01.08 14:03:00 - [40] You only need 1 guy to change a lightbulb, the other 99 can do everything else. No use trying to put 100 guys on changing the same lightbulb. EVE History Wiki
achoura	Posted - 2008.01.08 14:10:00 - [41] I think there may be some slight confusion over what Sokratesz said. The implication was not to pour all departments into one large problem, but halt future development while each individual department fixed or improved what they actually have before developing new stuff which subsequently won't perform as intended until their next future release. Not a chance in hell sadly since targets are already set and halfway done. The balancing is a good point though, tii bs in particular we're not built to be giant hac destroying everything (which would discourage new subscribers) but dumbed them down, down to the point where they simply ar not worth the investment. *The EVE servers and their patches*
Admiral IceBlock Caldari Northern Intelligence The Reckoning.	Posted - 2008.01.08 14:24:00 - [42] Originally by: Spoon Thumb I think if CCP spent 100 man-years on POS they'd still be bugged.... We live in hope Why spend 100 man-years to fix something that can't be fixed when you only need one man-day to remove them entirely from the game itself and get rid of the whole problem?
Sleepkevert Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2008.01.08 14:52:00 - [43] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Originally by: Spoon Thumb I think if CCP spent 100 man-years on POS they'd still be bugged.... We live in hope Why spend 100 man-years to fix something that can't be fixed when you only need one man-day to remove them entirely from the game itself and get rid of the whole problem? If they had spent 100 man years on posses, they would start from scratch and work it out from there. Imho it's one of the better solutions, posses just have way to many difficult to find bugs... _______ Sign my sig!
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.15 15:24:00 - [44] Bump for dev attention.
seliana tanis Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.15 16:44:00 - [45] /signed

CCP Prism X C C P	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:46:00 - [46] Edited by: CCP Prism X on 15/01/2008 17:47:22 Firstly, thanks for the kind words. This is pretty much a text-book example of constructive criticism.. mainly because it's not impolite. In return I'll do my best to shed some light on things, but please keep in mind that I an a database developer. I don't make the decisions of resource allocations nor do I have much say in our policies. That is not to say I'm kept in a box and shut of from everything, but I still have to act within the limitations of my position. Disclaimer aside, as other's have pointed out we have different departments for different tasks, no big surprise there. I'm not going to waste words on that fact as it's obvious. I'm not going to maintain that there is nothing wrong with the game. I'm a perfectionist and it's my nature to refuse that anything is perfect, there's always room for improvements. But I'm also a realist (which doesn't go well with being a perfectionist because, like I said, I understand that nothing can ever be perfect) and as one I need to tell you that we'll never stop all development. That would put an entire departmant out of business for those 6 months. As far as I can see, it's just not happening. Sorry. However, I can shine some light in your life. I don't know if this has been mentioned before but there's an entire department in CCP which has nothing to do with EVE itself and everything to do with our architecture. I know it's the same argument as the different departments one, but I reckon you didn't know we had a split EVE group and CORE group. Now I'm not a part of the CORE group so I can't speak for them but I'm looking forward to see their work roll out... in a 100+, or so, man years. As to new EVE only features they're constantly being optimized. We're just careful about them and test them extensively.. they're liable to screw with established features if we don't. Now everyone starts screaming Jump Bridges and what-have-you. Granted some things have slipped through QA. But you'll notice I said nobody is perfect but they're sure trying to get there. If you'd realise how much the QA department here has grown and been reorganized you wouldn't be too surprised to see those growing pains in action. They're all great people, very dedicated to what they do and willing to learn from their mistakes and achievements. I'm serious on this growing pains... it's nothing like the QA I got used to when I started. This probably doesn't answer much. But I just thought the post was so well written and to the point that it deserved some attention.. even thought it's a league off my chosen field. As to the people here that maintain their many years of software experience give them a carte blanche on telling other people off on how they do their job... there are so many things wrong with that, professional cameraderie aside. Here are the bullet points: * You know nobody writes perfect code the first, second or third time around. Heck, if you're prudent like me you know it to never be perfect. You also know that people who maintain they code perfect are people you'd want to avoid like the plague. * You know these are forums. Quoting 1337 experience on anonymous forums is akin to the: "I'm not going to post again in this topic!" (Sadly I've found myself in way to many flamefest I've had to excuse myself out of with this, and I know what it makes people think). * Everyone knows that a farmer with 10000 years of experience with livestock is still not capable of doing everything. Those might be 10000 years of experience with a special breed and his methods might kill off other breeds. But if the case is that you're the best programmers in the world: Congratulations. Please apply for a job in the MSSQL Server team, there's a lot of stuff I'd want in there which they maintain isn't doable. Edit: Again, I am sorry for the vague information but I'd just rather not give you false information or extrapolations. I'll see if Explorer has some free time tomorrow and fancies explaining this better or correcting me (which I hope he won't have to do, please accept forward apologies if that is the case) ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer, Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.

Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:53:00 - [47] Heh Prism I am at uni atm as an engineer and software project planning is part of it. It must be a nightmare to write so many lines of code (considering comercial grade code is usally around 400-600 lines a month per person fully tested) that has to interact with such a complicated and established system where you can combine so many parts of it at once. --------------------------------- Oh noes!
BLAIYNE Shadow Play Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:56:00 - [48] Edited by: BLAIYNE on 15/01/2008 17:57:24 Thanks for the answer Prism - it's always good to know more about how CCP works. Looking forward to the results of the 100+ man years of performance development!
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:15:00 - [49] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edit: Again, I am sorry for the vague information but I'd just rather not give you false information or extrapolations. I'll see if Explorer has some free time tomorrow and fancies explaining this better or correcting me (which I hope he won't have to do, please accept forward apologies if that is the case) Thank you, looking forward to it :)
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:32:00 - [50] Originally by: Arana Tellen (considering comercial grade code is usally around 400-600 lines a month per person fully tested) Damn, I should ask more money. When in a developpement period, I write 400-1200 lines of code fully tested per day. Oh wait, it's COBOL . If it were c++, I guess it should be 200-600... I agree about the maintenance. I have the same problem in my job. "Hey guys we should stop and clean our code/db !! So we could work faster after this... So we can do things better, with less bugs, crashes and angry clients !!" "Just... Shut up." 2isk
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:38:00 - [51] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: CCP Prism X Edit: Again, I am sorry for the vague information but I'd just rather not give you false information or extrapolations. I'll see if Explorer has some free time tomorrow and fancies explaining this better or correcting me (which I hope he won't have to do, please accept forward apologies if that is the case) Thank you, looking forward to it :) Prism, btw, you wrote almost a devblog there. What about saying a word about different CCP teams ? "We are 200 ppl, here's QA, they are 40, they are testing stuff, here's IT, 8 ppl, doing this, here's buisness guys, scheming how to conquer the world, 40 guys. Here's db guys, 20 ppl, these are the hamsters. Here's client ops, 5 ppl, they are counting money and stuff about our clients" etc 2isk
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:03:00 - [52] Hi PrismX. I am learning some basic programming and I am not very good at it. But I am willing to learn and be better at programming if I am given the chance. Would I be able to apply at CCP please? Thank you. I can understand how hard writing a program can be. Writing program is not an easy work and programmers have my respect. LOL, heck even the cash register at where I work in looks overly difficult to program. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:23:00 - [53] Originally by: CCP Prism X As to the people here that maintain their many years of software experience give them a carte blanche on telling other people off on how they do their job... there are so many things wrong with that, professional cameraderie aside. Here are the bullet points: * You know nobody writes perfect code the first, second or third time around. Heck, if you're prudent like me you know it to never be perfect. You also know that people who maintain they code perfect are people you'd want to avoid like the plague. Fully agreed. Perfect code does not simply exist. Most of the time you make do with code that works and avoid playing with it after it gets to work to a reasonable degree of efficency and works reliably; after all, you have other stuff to develop. I know I have modules in release software which I don't want to touch with a rusty ten-foot pole anymore. It is horrible code, I don't understand how it works anymore and I don't even remember what is it supposed to do anymore. However, the rest of the system relies on it and it does the job. Would adding massive new features probably break it? Likely. Does this happen to EvE periodically? Yes, of course, it happens to bloody everyone with a complex system. Experience in working on other stuff except EvE does not necessarily transfer to fixing EvE; first off, many things which apply to N jobs do not apply to a online game of this nature, and N things that applies to other online games of this nature does not apply to EvE, and you have to work within the existing framework anyway. Tbh, I'd rather shoot myself in the foot then apply for the MSSQL team. Now, EvE, on the other hand... I'd probably shoot myself in the foot after two months ;P Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Pyr3x Gallente TiS Industries	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:32:00 - [54] Are you guys crazy!? Development on the game it's engine etc will lead to a better game in general. You will see reduced lag and better performance. Also those of you who wine and gripe because of the new graphics only do se because you refuse to dish out some cash to upgrade your PC's. I feel that the devlopment team should continue there work on everything and anything they wish to bring to eve. I DO NOT support this thread.
Adel Sorra Gallente Recruitment and Industrial Center	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:02:00 - [55] Edited by: Adel Sorra on 15/01/2008 21:07:13 Originally by: Xaziar Nortocus Edited by: Xaziar Nortocus on 08/01/2008 01:12:36 Originally by: Malcanis Asking for 300 vs 400 battles to be lag-free may not be realistic with current technology. I beg to differ...its called Load Balancing...of course if there were MORE servers added to the cluster...we may have an increase of performance...oh...and a larger pipe... No we dont. it has been explained several times, atm the smallest thing they can swap between servers of the cluster is a whole solar system, running on one cpu. And swaping is only possible at boot-time. so adding more server wont change anything for jita, only improve the odds of 'not crashing' in a biiig fight somewhere in 0.0 very, very slightly. Originally by: Cpt Branko Fully agreed. Perfect code does not simply exist. Most of the time you make do with code that works and avoid playing with it after it gets to work to a reasonable degree of efficency and works reliably; after all, you have other stuff to develop. I know I have modules in release software which I don't want to touch with a rusty ten-foot pole anymore. It is horrible code, I don't understand how it works anymore and I don't even remember what is it supposed to do anymore. However, the rest of the system relies on it and it does the job. Would adding massive new features probably break it? Likely. Does this happen to EvE periodically? Yes, of course, it happens to bloody everyone with a complex system. This hits the nail on the head. Let me just add, for the non-programmers, without explaning the why: rewriting those parts is a very, very timeconsuming work and often frustrating work. // edit but i do agree, the ui could use some love
Spurty Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.16 23:29:00 - [56] CCP, its all black box to us customers and comes across as the perceived 'lag' we get when doing something time critical (like turning on your modules or targeting someone). Is there anyway to give those of us that can work on such issues some more information to go on? All I see is Wireshark readouts and a complete lack of response from my client. Is there anything we can do to help ourselves? Is there a network card we can buy that will alleviate some of the stress our clients get, any 'pre-cache' settings we can tweak or is the issue all on your side? Coming from the Open Source World (not that I want you to suddenly allow me access to your source code ;-) ) I've found that many heads can solve really big problems. Sometimes, the best solutions come from Left Field. In real life, I'm a Quality Developer (I write tools for the QA team to help them out testing software the company I work for sells) and I know no developer writes perfect code (and to be watchful of those that say they do ;0). There is a LOT of love for this game and people can be very dedicated for zero cost to you. Infact, I reckon EVE has more than its fair share of Developers playing it (i.e. compared to the Spread sheet type combat MMOs like WoW) and hey, you might just find someone in your customer base just developed a new technology that could help you. Its 2008 after all, lots of fresh BSc Comp Sci's out there since you started. Any way, to be clear, information about what the 'bottle necks' are for the game is what I would love to see talked about in an open manner. At least if we know where the issues are so we can stop people screaming 'Fix it' and start helping you with a solution. -- Two cannibals eating a clown. One says to the other "Does this taste funny to you?"
Ikthorn Balhar Veto.	Posted - 2008.01.16 23:33:00 - [57] I'd settle with a comprehensive explanation of how command modules and links are supposed to to work, and how squad/wing/fleet make-ups should be affected, rather than have to guess at a lot of this stuff, or go by information that's almost 2 years old...
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.01.17 00:01:00 - [58] Edited by: Taikun on 17/01/2008 00:01:52 Originally by: CCP Prism X Firstly, thanks for the kind words. This is pretty much a text-book example of constructive criticism.. mainly because it's not impolite. Ahhh I see how it is. People who are genuinely upset with lackluster service incompetent game design and communication get the door slammed in their faces. (posts deleted, emails unanswered and moderated threads) While those that act like fan-bois and use just the right about of verbal lube get you Devs in mood for a bit of forum loving. (someone quick! get me a bucket) Here is some advice. Perhaps you should do your jobs and address every paying customers concerns. Percieved 'impolite' or not... we are all customers and YOU should conduct yourselves with a bit of professionalism. Christ... if a snot nosed 15 year old at McDOnalds can conduct himself with a professional demeaner with an upset customer and have a dialouge... well? Don't like the truth in my post? Too impolite? Well just sprinkle a few of the comments below through it until you are suitably stupefied. "You are the best!" "Eve Rocks" "Thanks for 2007" "Marry my sister" "Lets have a beer a fan fest" "Gawd I'd like it ever-so-much to work at CCP". Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.17 10:13:00 - [59] Quote: However there is a thing i must ask you. Freeze development of any and all new features (Ambulation, factional warfare, universe expansions) for, say, 6 months, and instead, during that time, focus all human and hamster resources on optimising the game. A: New graphics require some programming, all programmers dedicated to server code means the graphics guys can't do anything. B: Since the graphics guys can't do anything the gamedesigners can't do anything. C: Content teams will grind to halt or delivering only very small ammounts of unimaginative work (ie. the umpteenth kill mission, if a mission would be anything other then standard it needs programming again). Also for example ambulation is programmed by programmers located in the US office, these programmers probably can't help improve the server side code. Not to mention hardware upgrades do get press atttention (and always has): http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/1724 http://www.cesspit.net/drupal/node/1196 http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/10044 http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/08/0352256 Anyways yes I do hope lag is improved, and I hope the infiniband project will help there. But quite frankly I have no doubt in my mind that the moment for example 400 vs 400 is playable that alliances will sent 700 vs 700 and break the server again. Same goes for jita . --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Eternal Hatred Amarr Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.17 10:27:00 - [60] End of nano-era? Oh boy, there's moar nanos than evar! _________________ It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :(

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It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :(