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Suiciding navy ravens in 0.5

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Igetshotalot THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.08 06:20:00 - [1] Im bored with eve. Baerly manage to log in anymore. So i tought about suiciding some cnr's in highsec for a change:) Im not sure tough if its possible and doable with a reasonable ammount of people involved. Anybody ever did this? What kind of force do you need? 10 gankatrons/ravens? More? Is it worthi it? Better suicide freigheters?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.08 06:26:00 - [2] some guy smart bombed jita with one saying he was giving it away. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
waferzankko Caldari Bears Inc Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.08 06:29:00 - [3] ya sb in jita prolly the best idea. or just camp l4x?
Gaunty North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.01.08 06:52:00 - [4] I don't think he's asking about using a CNR to suicide. I think he's asking what ships and how many would be best to suicide against CNR's in high sec. Presumably he wants to make carebears cry.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.08 06:54:00 - [5] Approx 12 people should do the trick. Even less if you get it while it's hardeners do not work. Just use n00balt with passive targeter to scan them beforehand and pick the ones who have 4+ bil setups so you get healthy profit if approx half of modules do survive. It is risky ofc, as if he is paranoid he might be aligned and manage to get out as soon as he notices 12 battleships dropping on him. Average 'semiafk' mission runner should be relatively easy victim tho. Or perhaps you manage to get him on the gate or something like that.
Eval B'Stard Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.01.08 07:06:00 - [6] I knew saving 5 minutes on a mission wasn't worth the investment and BIG target painted on my back. I'll stick with my 200mil Raven setup that does the job only slightly slower and leaves me to fly past the wrecks of the CNR pilots. ------------------------------------------- When we gonna see the 40km and 80km tractor beams ?
Awox Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2008.01.08 07:13:00 - [7] Originally by: waferzankko just camp l4x?
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.08 07:15:00 - [8] Originally by: Eval B'Stard I knew saving 5 minutes on a mission wasn't worth the investment and BIG target painted on my back. I'll stick with my 200mil Raven setup that does the job only slightly slower and leaves me to fly past the wrecks of the CNR pilots. You need approx 1.5+ bil in fittings to be worth suicide ganked. Preferably in several modules as one module is too big gamble. CNR itself is not worth ganking as one does it for the expensive fittings and ship gets popped in the process. 'Regular' CNR fit is not cost effective to gank (say 7x CN launchers, 4x CN BCU + T2 tank), however fitting stuff with 'estamel' in it's name paints that big bullseye on your hull.
Eval B'Stard Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.01.08 07:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: Eval B'Stard I knew saving 5 minutes on a mission wasn't worth the investment and BIG target painted on my back. I'll stick with my 200mil Raven setup that does the job only slightly slower and leaves me to fly past the wrecks of the CNR pilots. You need approx 1.5+ bil in fittings to be worth suicide ganked. Preferably in several modules as one module is too big gamble. CNR itself is not worth ganking as one does it for the expensive fittings and ship gets popped in the process. 'Regular' CNR fit is not cost effective to gank (say 7x CN launchers, 4x CN BCU + T2 tank), however fitting stuff with 'estamel' in it's name paints that big bullseye on your hull. Yeah but sounds like this guy is bored and wants to do it for jollies more than ISK ------------------------------------------- When we gonna see the 40km and 80km tractor beams ?
Igetshotalot THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.08 10:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Eval B'Stard Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: Eval B'Stard I knew saving 5 minutes on a mission wasn't worth the investment and BIG target painted on my back. I'll stick with my 200mil Raven setup that does the job only slightly slower and leaves me to fly past the wrecks of the CNR pilots. You need approx 1.5+ bil in fittings to be worth suicide ganked. Preferably in several modules as one module is too big gamble. CNR itself is not worth ganking as one does it for the expensive fittings and ship gets popped in the process. 'Regular' CNR fit is not cost effective to gank (say 7x CN launchers, 4x CN BCU + T2 tank), however fitting stuff with 'estamel' in it's name paints that big bullseye on your hull. Yeah but sounds like this guy is bored and wants to do it for jollies more than ISK nahh, would be nice to earn some isk on the way:)
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.08 10:33:00 - [11] Ofer to help them with a mission, salvage some wrecks for them, drop stuff in can, have them take it -> aggro -> keeeeeeeel Originally by: ISD Cortes You're at liberty to use the rolling sig you had, as long as there's no chimeras covering the nether regions of voluptuous females.
Igetshotalot THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.08 10:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Sokratesz Ofer to help them with a mission, salvage some wrecks for them, drop stuff in can, have them take it -> aggro -> keeeeeeeel yeah.. good idea.. but not as much then just shoot em:)
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.08 10:44:00 - [13] Originally by: Eval B'Stard I knew saving 5 minutes on a mission wasn't worth the investment and BIG target painted on my back. I'll stick with my 200mil Raven setup that does the job only slightly slower and leaves me to fly past the wrecks of the CNR pilots. Or you could get a Nighthawk. Nearly as good as a CNR for speed and the passive tank runs 23/7. Would probably take at least 13 ships to gank one -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Jolliejoe Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.08 10:45:00 - [14] Edited by: Jolliejoe on 08/01/2008 10:45:09
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.08 10:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Eval B'Stard I knew saving 5 minutes on a mission wasn't worth the investment and BIG target painted on my back. I'll stick with my 200mil Raven setup that does the job only slightly slower and leaves me to fly past the wrecks of the CNR pilots. Or you could get a Nighthawk. Nearly as good as a CNR for speed and the passive tank runs 23/7. Would probably take at least 13 ships to gank one Hehe. Well I imagine it's slightly harder to gank nighthawk indeed, but not bcos of tank as only hp buffer counts in suicide gank (it's all over in approx 15 or so seconds). It just has very good resists against kinetic and thermal. Main saving point for nighthawk would be however that it's usually just T2 fitted with perhaps few navy BCU's in mix. It's just not cost effective usually to suicide one while one gistii x-type can fund your next 3 suicide ganks.
Terminal Entry New Fnord Industries Black Scope Project	Posted - 2008.01.08 11:02:00 - [16] Originally by: Igetshotalot Im bored with eve. Baerly manage to log in anymore. So i tought about suiciding some cnr's in highsec for a change:) Im not sure tough if its possible and doable with a reasonable ammount of people involved. Anybody ever did this? What kind of force do you need? 10 gankatrons/ravens? More? Is it worthi it? Better suicide freigheters? I remember a post by someone who got suicided by 20 Caracales in Motsu. He was in a CNR and survived. As for which would be better to suicide CNR or Freighter, a ship scanner and cargo scanner would answer that question. Also I had to laugh at posts 2 & 3 who seemed not to have even read the OP before replying. Originally by: CCP kieron If you feel we as an entity are corrupt and abhorrent, we bid you good luck in finding a game and company that suits your interests.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.08 11:34:00 - [17] Originally by: MotherMoon some guy smart bombed jita with one saying he was giving it away. Yup, and i was in Jita and frapsed it all HERE is the link to the fraps i took with my alt in Jita that time. CCP, fix my forum portrait FFS
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.08 11:43:00 - [18] I think your forgetting about the great insurance oayout you'll get. just gop tech one fitted and isk wise you'll lose almost nothing and hopefully get a sweet modules or two. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
Marsha Greeves	Posted - 2008.01.08 11:48:00 - [19] Empire suicide ganking = lame
Igetshotalot THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.08 11:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Marsha Greeves Empire suicide ganking = lame why? cnrs are ususaly nice fitted and juicy targets.. cant wait to get some gist x-type stuffz:)
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.08 11:58:00 - [21] A golem is far better than a CNR for under 1bil isk in fittings anyways.
Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:01:00 - [22] Edited by: Melor Rend on 08/01/2008 12:03:46 Edited by: Melor Rend on 08/01/2008 12:03:17 A Mega with t2 blasters + t2 damage mods (max gank) does just over 4000 damage per volley (Void L = 50% Kin 50% Therm). A Raven fitted for lvl4s (that is worth ganking) can have effective HP between about 40'000 effective HP (no DCU, hardners or expanders) and 90'000 effective HP (worst-case if hardners are active and with a DCU which is probably not that likely). For the sake of this example we can use about 65'000 effective HP against a kin/therm damage dealer. That would mean that a CNR would need between 10 and 20 volleys (depending on hardners and setup) from a max gank fitted Mega. I guess you can get about 2 volleys (maybe even 3?) out before you get raped by concord so let's say a mega can deal an average of 10'000 damage before getting killed. That would mean you need between 4 and 10 megas to do the job. This calculation is ignoring the damage from drones that the mega does and also ignores the shield-booster of the CNR (since he won't get more then one cycle out anyway). Anyone that already killed a CNR (in highsec) wish to confirm or tell me if i'm way off track?
schurem Silver Snake Enterprise SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:06:00 - [23] wouldnt it be far smarter to use amarr battleships fit for gank against shield tanking carebears? However, I still think EvE needs more and better tactical warning sounds. <<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free* Or Die Trying* >>>>
Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:12:00 - [24] Yes it would be slightly better to shoot with EM/Therm however we're only talking about 10'000 more effective hitpoints... thats not as big a difference as i had initially expected compared to kin/therm. Ofc it always depends on how the target is fitted... if they have a kin/therm tank then amarr ships would be better but if they have only two invuls then the difference isn't that big.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Melor Rend Edited by: Melor Rend on 08/01/2008 12:03:46 Edited by: Melor Rend on 08/01/2008 12:03:17 A Mega with t2 blasters + t2 damage mods (max gank) does just over 4000 damage per volley (Void L = 50% Kin 50% Therm). A Raven fitted for lvl4s (that is worth ganking) can have effective HP between about 40'000 effective HP (no DCU, hardners or expanders) and 90'000 effective HP (worst-case if hardners are active and with a DCU which is probably not that likely). For the sake of this example we can use about 65'000 effective HP against a kin/therm damage dealer. That would mean that a CNR would need between 10 and 20 volleys (depending on hardners and setup) from a max gank fitted Mega. I guess you can get about 2 volleys (maybe even 3?) out before you get raped by concord so let's say a mega can deal an average of 10'000 damage before getting killed. That would mean you need between 4 and 10 megas to do the job. This calculation is ignoring the damage from drones that the mega does and also ignores the shield-booster of the CNR (since he won't get more then one cycle out anyway). Anyone that already killed a CNR (in highsec) wish to confirm or tell me if i'm way off track? You don't have to fight against it's tank. If you engage a guy with really expensive stuff (and this are the ones you like to kill) with faction/officer hardeners/invuls and a gist x-type sb etc. the best thing to do is to nuke his cap. Will take you a neutralizer-dedicated ship + few neuts on another ship to be sure. You instantly nuke his cap, it takes few seconds till the last hardener stopped to work because of a lack of cap. And then you have only the base shield/armor/hull ammount with natural resistances, no expensive shieldbooster working, no expensive hardeners, it's quite an easy kill if the cap is gone. If your lucky he's in a golem, then it goes down even faster as it has considerably less base shields/armor/hull.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:23:00 - [26] I luv me NH!!! Tbh i can't understand why people would sit in their lumbering slow BS and do missions while u can go zoooommmm zoooommm all the time and pop everything equally fast. I hardly ever use me flight of T2 goblins to pop frigs, usually i use them for some added dps to whack the last few bs's or structures. (well tbh i usually forget to deploy them hehe) Oh and simple T2 setup works like a charm. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Lord Det	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:49:00 - [27] Originally by: MotherMoon I think your forgetting about the great insurance oayout you'll get. just gop tech one fitted and isk wise you'll lose almost nothing and hopefully get a sweet modules or two. I think you are forgetting about the insurance fee you have to pay to get a new insurance. Suiciding your ship will only limit your total isk loss when your ship is at the end of it's insurance period. Try doing the following, buy a Raven, buy platinum insurance, selfdestruct it, buy raven, buy platinum insurance, selfdestruct it,.... check your wallet after doing this 10 times. When you get a few 500+ mil mods, it's a whole different story but simply suiciding cheap t1 ships will drain your wallet eventually.
Jarod Hawke Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.08 13:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Igetshotalot Originally by: Marsha Greeves Empire suicide ganking = lame why? cnrs are ususaly nice fitted and juicy targets.. cant wait to get some gist x-type stuffz:) highsec suicide ganking IS lame.... the fact that you are doing it only make you a lame ass too.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.01.08 13:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Eval B'Stard I knew saving 5 minutes on a mission wasn't worth the investment and BIG target painted on my back. I'll stick with my 200mil Raven setup that does the job only slightly slower and leaves me to fly past the wrecks of the CNR pilots. Or you could get a Nighthawk. Nearly as good as a CNR for speed and the passive tank runs 23/7. Would probably take at least 13 ships to gank one Hehe. Well I imagine it's slightly harder to gank nighthawk indeed, but not bcos of tank as only hp buffer counts in suicide gank (it's all over in approx 15 or so seconds). It just has very good resists against kinetic and thermal. Main saving point for nighthawk would be however that it's usually just T2 fitted with perhaps few navy BCU's in mix. It's just not cost effective usually to suicide one while one gistii x-type can fund your next 3 suicide ganks. WTB: Gistii X-type modules. (Hint: They don't exist. Try "Gist".) --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. Tyrrax's bet status: UNPAID.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.08 14:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Lord Det Originally by: MotherMoon I think your forgetting about the great insurance oayout you'll get. just gop tech one fitted and isk wise you'll lose almost nothing and hopefully get a sweet modules or two. I think you are forgetting about the insurance fee you have to pay to get a new insurance. Suiciding your ship will only limit your total isk loss when your ship is at the end of it's insurance period. Try doing the following, buy a Raven, buy platinum insurance, selfdestruct it, buy raven, buy platinum insurance, selfdestruct it,.... check your wallet after doing this 10 times. When you get a few 500+ mil mods, it's a whole different story but simply suiciding cheap t1 ships will drain your wallet eventually. I think you should spend some time looking at the mineral value of ships, and the cost of bpc's if a bpo investment is too much, before making comments like that. It's not very hard to make Battleship suicide setups that you loose no more then 5 mil on, 10mil tops, insurance cost included, even assuming no recovery of own modules. This means concord provides 0, zip, zilch, nada in the form of consequence, and that insurance in relation to suicides is broken. I'm not going to post a damn guide here, so even the gankmonkeys too slow to figure it out by themselves (if that's possible) can follow it and we get even more of this in highsec. And more of these threads, as a consequence. Thankfully, I think not too many gankbears (there is no risk in this) have Industry alts or even PE trained themselves.

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