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Mizerik
Grettistak
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Posted - 2008.01.09 23:05:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Mizerik on 09/01/2008 23:13:50
so whats the difference between an alt and a main?
Wow, so much anger about alts. So banning multi accounts from a IP address? So much for DCHP assigned IP's... So much for internet Cafe's... 
only one account with a credit card? Hmm, guess that means that all those people out there with more then one credit card won't have to worry about it? Those who don't use them (by choice or not) can't play Eve.
Remove alts on an account with a 6 month warning? So what happens to all the time and isk I spent on training those chars? Do I get reimbursment from CCP? and a credit into random skills on my *Main* ? or do I get screwed ?
Do I like greifers? nope lots of old players that bother high sec carebears, they leave me alone because I come in a big ship and have friends :)
*******
So quit crying, if your being bothered get some friends or move. Because you can't/won't use an alt thats on you. Many of us have these things called "Friends" who come over and play so the whole IP address thing will never happen as I'd bet the vast majority of us use routers with 1 IP outbound.
Learn something about computers and how a network works before talking about it.
btw, I used all the icons because I am bored and thought this post needed some humor as the orig poster needs to be wardec'd so we can get past all the whineing and get strait to the crying
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2008.01.09 23:11:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Mizerik
so whats the difference between an alt and a main?
There's two different issues here.
1) multiple characters on the single account. They are obviously alts as usually only one of 3 is heavily trained and used.
2) multiple accounts. Here defining an alt is more difficult as the accounts strictly speaking are equal. However usually characters that are ISK cows for another character are considered alts. For example, you have 3 accounts. One is a PvPer, another one is a miner and another one is an industrialist. If you regularly transfer ISK from miner/industrialist to PvPer so that you could PvP in a nice expensive ships, then miner and industrialist are your alts and the PvPer is your main.
Obviously it's just an issue of semantics, everybody knows what an alt is and what they are for, because nearly everybody uses them.
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Mizerik
Grettistak
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Posted - 2008.01.09 23:18:00 -
[33]
I use alts, simply because 1 out of 4 of them are alwasy wardec'd and I don't like losing my ships before I fly them.
Yes i can ask/hire someone to move them for me but why bother when I can do it myself with 100% reliability, no contracting needed, no waiting. I produce my own ammo/mods and t1 ships so don't need to waste time searching the market for stuff then going to get it. My *main* pvpr is the only char that has missions above L4 and my *Main* industialist has a freighter, Dread, Carrier while my other alts are just lonely cyno's who sit in space waiting for me to call them.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.01.09 23:19:00 -
[34]
Alts were an awful design decision to begin with, but taking them away can't realistically be done without slapping all the players in the face who have been paying for them.
If they DID decide to get rid of alts, the only realistic way to do it is to stop offering that service to new subscribers. People would complain that the older players have an advantage since they had a chance to get alts, but whatever. A few years down the line it will all hopefully be water under the bridge.
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Coffeegoffer
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Posted - 2008.01.09 23:32:00 -
[35]
quite possibly the dumbest idea I've heard yet. Sorry, I don't troll much but alts are a saving grace for this game and given the complexity of the in-game universe and inability for a character to perform logistics AND fight effectively an alt is practically a necessity in 'end game' scenarios.
And, umn, does the whole 'two for one' marketing that CCP introduces every now and again for a second account basically promote having an alt? Duh.
Proudly posted with my alt. Just cause I can. ;)
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2008.01.09 23:36:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Coffeegoffer
quite possibly the dumbest idea I've heard yet. Sorry, I don't troll much but alts are a saving grace for this game and given the complexity of the in-game universe and inability for a character to perform logistics AND fight effectively an alt is practically a necessity in 'end game' scenarios.
Actually that was the point where you were supposed to work with your friends, the community simply found a shortcut.
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Richard Phallus
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Posted - 2008.01.09 23:40:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Vaari
I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation.
-6/100
Student shows no effort or ability. Recommend that they not graduate this year and receive special education classes in the next.
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BlackSail
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Posted - 2008.01.09 23:46:00 -
[38]
Alts were not meant to be a part of EVE. The game is designed so that everyone can do anything with a single character. The reason we can make three characters goes back to beta so testers could explore different areas and different mids faster. CCP decided to just let the multiple characters go thinking that the restriction of 1 skill training at a time on an account would basically have the same affect. The secondary characters or "alts" were meant to be if someone lost too much standing and didnt want to build it back up they could start a new character without deleting their first one. CCP didnt want people to exploit secondary characters by using them for militious purposes, but since it happened at an uncontrollable rate they just decided to run with it.
As far as seperate accounts, there isnt really a way to stop it. CCP isn't going to limit 1 account per credit card number or anything. It would hurt them financially.
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Mutabae
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Posted - 2008.01.09 23:52:00 -
[39]
No.
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2008.01.09 23:57:00 -
[40]
I don't understand why some people hate alts so much.
So, no.
Originally by: Riethe
You know the female who does the voice for Aura?
Do you ever think when she's alone with her boyfriend, she's like... "Docking request accepted" ?
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2008.01.10 00:03:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Estephania on 10/01/2008 00:03:45
Originally by: Mr Friendly
I don't understand why some people hate alts so much.
So, no.
Many ppl dislike alts because it's dirty gaming. It's like playing Sims with 3 toons where two are working and earning simoleons non-stop so that the remaining toon had all the money to spend on the cool stuff. It is not cheating, but it destroys the immersion and atmosphere of the virtual world.
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Richard Phallus
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Posted - 2008.01.10 00:05:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Estephania
Many ppl dislike alts because it's dirty gaming. It's like playing Sims with 3 toons where two are working and earning simoleons non-stop so that the remaining toon had all the money to spend on the cool stuff. It is not cheating, but it destroys the immersion and atmosphere of the virtual world.
Eve is more like an RTS of some kind anyway, it's better with more than one unit to micromanage.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.01.10 00:12:00 -
[43]
I created two untrained 800K SP alts so I could bring supplies to my pirate main and sell loot in high-sec. If I could go to high-sec (even if it was risky) on my main char, I'd do it.
However, I can't. Hence, alts.
Rifters!
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2008.01.10 00:15:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Estephania
Edited by: Estephania on 10/01/2008 00:03:45
Originally by: Mr Friendly
I don't understand why some people hate alts so much.
So, no.
Many ppl dislike alts because it's dirty gaming. It's like playing Sims with 3 toons where two are working and earning simoleons non-stop so that the remaining toon had all the money to spend on the cool stuff. It is not cheating, but it destroys the immersion and atmosphere of the virtual world.
You mean how you get two sims to fall in love and marry, then tell the expendible one to jump in the pool with no steps out and wait until your main sim is single again but with the now-dead one's money?
Didn't everyone do that?
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Anything less is wasted effort |
BlackSail
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Posted - 2008.01.10 00:19:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Mr Friendly
I don't understand why some people hate alts so much.
The problem is that when people use an alt to start a corp with an alt, then take their main and its corp to go kill or steal from the smaller corp. It ruins the game for alot of people. If alts werent in the game then you could see peoples employment history and see where they have been and know that its not some pirate corps puppet.
Alts defeat the purpose of security ratings and employment history and make it possible for poeple to harass, swindle, rob others through the use of the corp system without any trace or repercussion to their main character.
That said, its now a part of the game and I have learned to deal with it, but alot of new players have their games ruinned by this and it prevents people from making large scale corporations because you really cant trust anyone. Judging a player by the character activities is impossible now.
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BlackSail
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Posted - 2008.01.10 00:30:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Mizerik
I use alts, simply because 1 out of 4 of them are alwasy wardec'd and I don't like losing my ships before I fly them.
Yes i can ask/hire someone to move them for me but why bother when I can do it myself with 100% reliability, no contracting needed, no waiting. I produce my own ammo/mods and t1 ships so don't need to waste time searching the market for stuff then going to get it. My *main* pvpr is the only char that has missions above L4 and my *Main* industialist has a freighter, Dread, Carrier while my other alts are just lonely cyno's who sit in space waiting for me to call them.
This is the biggest problem with alts. EVE is supposed to be an interactive game. Many implemented systems have become useless (like the courier system) because of this. EVE would be so much more intracate and dynamic if people couldnt use alts.
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Arpiter
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Posted - 2008.01.10 00:33:00 -
[47]
Stupidist idea ever. Some people like me enjoy paying for 5 accounts and actually skilling our alts
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SumDum
AirHawk Alliance
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2008.01.10 00:40:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Vaari
I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation.
Post with your main :P
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BlackSail
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Posted - 2008.01.10 00:46:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Outright lie.
1) Capital ships. Yes, your corp will pop cynos whenever you need somewhere and if you leave corp you can reprocess it or have to join a new one. Riiiight. You *need* a cyno alt. To say otherwise is to be silly, to be realistic.
2) Pirates. Now, yes, you could have someone else in the corp to do your resupplying/loot selling. Over his alt. However, two basic 800K SP alts are a pirate's best friend; you use them for selling your loot and for transporting loot from low-sec to high-sec trade hubs and for brining in supplies from high-sec trade hubs to low-sec. I don't hear of many T2 producers/suppliers in low-sec now (or people buying carebear stuff in low-sec), do I now?
If I could take my main to high-sec even with a risk involved, i would. But as I can't, I must metagame or ask other people with a positive sec status (and I don't know many of those now) to buy me supplies and sell my loot (which is preety damn tedious, setting 50 sell orders with all the market lag), which they might do once or twice. Plus, trusting someone with selling faction/high-value loot is something I really wouldn't do.
It is no lie. Thats how the game was initially designed. Carriers and cyno's are pretty recent additions to the game. Years after CCP decided that it couldnt stop the use of alts. Furthermore, CCP does alot to encourage player interaction. They are not trying to encourage alt use, though they accept it now.
As to your second point, CCP did originally decide to allow side characters for the purpose of getting around security status issues, and thats it. Thats why they allowed alts that were limited by the skill training rule. Most problems occur with multiple accounts and the blatant militious activities.
I am not basing my arguement on what I heard from others, im basing it on my experience during the beta testing and when the game was released to the general public.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.01.10 01:02:00 -
[50]
Originally by: BlackSail
Furthermore, CCP does alot to encourage player interaction. They are not trying to encourage alt use, though they accept it now.
Power of two isn not encouraging alt use?!?
Originally by: BlackSail
As to your second point, CCP did originally decide to allow side characters for the purpose of getting around security status issues, and thats it.
Well, they created security status issues in the first place. Allowing outlaws to travel to high-sec (with everyone able to shoot em though) wouldn't have made it a requirement for pirates to use alts. There'd still be advantages, but it wouldn't be essentially mandatory to do so.
Rifters!
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.01.10 01:22:00 -
[51]
I can't stand that argument that you "need" a cyno alt. I don't care how hard cap ships are to fly without one. If you don't have someone who can light a cyno for you, don't fly cap ships. Period.
With all the nerfs and such lately, and just the general trend towards making Eve easier, would it really be so horrible to implement, as a counterweight to this, a no-new-alts policy? This policy of course would only apply to new players. I can at least understand older players feeling cheated if their alts (and, in a way, all that money they spent) were for naught.
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Susung
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Posted - 2008.01.10 01:50:00 -
[52]
Silly mains, You cannot end us. I am an ALT on a 4th account. I am not even sure who my main is You cannot stop us you are hopelessly outnumbered CEASE YOUR RESISTANCE.. The outcome is certain. We will treat you well, of course. Truly we are quite fond of you. Don't force us to do something we will regret, we have nothing to lose. That is why we scare you  isn't it? We are the characters you can have fun with and not worry about you pitiful reputation. Have you got a corp mate who is an irritating bonehead? No prob I can help with that. Some losers keep war dec'ing your empire corp Not an issue I'll haul the goods to market for you and never ask for a single isk in return. Just remember... I will take any risk for you do any unmentionable duty you feel needs done. I will not, however, tolerate your disloyalty. Now be a good little main keep buying me my pretty toys, don't tell anyone who I am and KEEP YOURSELF QUIET!!!
Susung
founder:
ALT anti defamation league
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Galmar Grief
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.01.10 01:50:00 -
[53]
Even though I believe that alt's are greatly abused, by that I mean they're used as thieves, contract scammers, forum spammers etc...
Not to mention they also make a lot of things reduntant now, ie scouting, training certain marketting skills.
Bla bla bla, i'm tired, <insert whine about alts being like vibrators, and how with them now i'll never get any friends ;(>
The simple fact is, Alts have been a part of the game for a long time, CCP's "Power of two" sales to promote them have continued, I believe 100% eve would have been a FAR FAR FAR better game had alts never existed, people might care a bit about their reputation.
Anyway alts are here to stay, even though they do suck completely and should have never imo have existed. CCP chose to stop the whole "multi skill training" thing on accounts because they knew everyone would have a char dedicated to producing stuff, or one dedicated just to PVP'ing that they didnt really care about to greif with.
The fact is with GTC's and people with far too much disposable income wether somone can train 3 chars on 1 account or 3 serpate accounts it realyl really doesnt matter.
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UI Suggestion for Missiles - Can we please turn the damn things off / disable the shake? |
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.01.10 01:57:00 -
[54]
Limit the allowable number of open clients to one tbh.
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Schani Kratnorr
Internal Revenue Service
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Posted - 2008.01.10 02:02:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Vaari
I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation.
Exept people would just get more accounts and use them instead?
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Susung
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Posted - 2008.01.10 02:05:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Limit the allowable number of open clients to one tbh.
I run on 3 separate pc's
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Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.10 02:07:00 -
[57]
Deleting alts is probably too extreme, even tho I'd go for it.
What can happen is that Show Info on a character would also show the 2 alt characters, if they exist.
That way you'll always know whose alt it is.
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Schani Kratnorr
Internal Revenue Service
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Posted - 2008.01.10 02:12:00 -
[58]
why is this a problem again?
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Susung
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Posted - 2008.01.10 02:18:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
why is this a problem again?
Some people don't know how to screen new corp members and give them access to corp assets days after they join. Then when they get ripped off they blame the system instead of their own stupidity. Not gonna learn anything that way IMO
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Frygok
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.01.10 02:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
why is this a problem again?
It's not a problem to me personally, if we are talking dual accounting. However, I do believe that the use of alts are discouraging teamwork in much of the PvE aspect in the game. It's simply not worth it to team up with other people to rat, run missions or plexes. You do it with your own alt.
I didn't experience it myself, but heard stories of rats in the old days being mean and able to actually destroy your ship. I say bring that back, and make level 4 missions much harder, so they require maybe 2-4 well geared people to complete. It would ofcourse be worthwhile financially. Level 5 missions could be upped to 5-9 man needed, with scaled up reward. Toughen up the NPC's please.
Now, this doesn't reflect that much on alts ofcourse, and you can't and shouldn't ban multiple accounts. However, making it more of a team effort and require a bit of skill to do missions, ratting, complexes (can be tough atm), would maybe let people team up instead of playing solo-Eve. Something that multiple accounts definately have promoted (sadly).
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