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It is time to end alts

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Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:31:00 - [91] Originally by: Malcanis "Excessive" real life income? Erm, An account in EvE costs about the same as buying 1 bottle of decent wine per month. Or 2 beers if you live in bloody London. I have 3 accounts and that costs less than my mobile. You could get a Sunday paper route and make enough to run 3-4 accounts, and that's from what the going rate was when I left school. I'm serious. If you can raise 1.2B every 3 months, which isn't that demanding, you can have 3 accounts FOR FREE. As hobbies go, EvE is about as cheap as it gets. So knock off with the "excessive income" tears. If EvE is an expensive hobby for you, you really need to get a better job than selling roses at traffic lights. Some people say that you spend a lot more on EvE than non-subscription games. Fair enough. But you get a hell of a lot more play time too. Even with 3 accounts, it costs me about 6p an hour or something daft like that. Exactly. If you consider one or two extra accounts prohibitively expensive you shouldn't be wasting your money on an MMO in the first place. I have run three accounts for the better part of three years- it is the only way I could have explored all of the great potential CCP put into this game. It would take 5 or 6 years to train up one character to try it all. Plus, for those of you whining about unfair advantage with alts, I've LOST just as many ships as I've saved running multiple accounts. You get focused on one toon and come back to the other and ask "wtf am I in a station and where is my ship??" Running multiple accounts successfully is a lot of fun and requires an entirely different skillset. You people that have a problem with it- sorry, get over it. Alts are awesome, an integral part of the game, and they are here to stay. Quit whining, and seriously if Eve is taxing your income QUIT EVE or GET A BETTER JOB.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:37:00 - [92] Sorry, guys, I have my job and it's most likely better than yours. Tell to someone else how you "explore the endless possibilities of Eve" with your many accounts. It's simply your lot are not smart enough to finance your PvP fun with just one account, so that you need to explore missions grinding and many hours mining sessions. If I ever feel that I don't have enough ISK to enjoy Eve, I'd rather sell several GTCs to ppl with many accounts since many of them can't afford to pay for 3-4 accounts with their stellar jobs, lol.
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:46:00 - [93] Originally by: Estephania Sorry, guys, I have my job and it's most likely better than yours. Tell to someone else how you "explore the endless possibilities of Eve" with your many accounts. It's simply your lot are not smart enough to finance your PvP fun with just one account, so that you need to explore missions grinding and many hours mining sessions. If I ever feel that I don't have enough ISK to enjoy Eve, I'd rather sell several GTCs to ppl with many accounts since many of them can't afford to pay for 3-4 accounts with their stellar jobs, lol. Yep, I'm an idiot. I couldn't figure out how to fit leadership/ carriers/ T2 manufacturing/ invention/ siege dread/ exploration/ command ships/ trade/ missioning/ rorqual/ booster manufacturing/ interceptors/ interdictors/ freighters/ transports/ corp management/ exhumers/ reprocessing/ black ops/ covert ops/ research/ POS management/ moon mining/ etc into one character. Since you are smarter than me and have a better job than I do perhaps you can explain it to me?
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:55:00 - [94] Originally by: Enkindu Originally by: Estephania Sorry, guys, I have my job and it's most likely better than yours. Tell to someone else how you "explore the endless possibilities of Eve" with your many accounts. It's simply your lot are not smart enough to finance your PvP fun with just one account, so that you need to explore missions grinding and many hours mining sessions. If I ever feel that I don't have enough ISK to enjoy Eve, I'd rather sell several GTCs to ppl with many accounts since many of them can't afford to pay for 3-4 accounts with their stellar jobs, lol. Yep, I'm an idiot. I couldn't figure out how to fit leadership/ carriers/ T2 manufacturing/ invention/ siege dread/ exploration/ command ships/ trade/ missioning/ rorqual/ booster manufacturing/ interceptors/ interdictors/ freighters/ transports/ corp management/ exhumers/ reprocessing/ black ops/ covert ops/ research/ POS management/ moon mining/ etc into one character. Since you are smarter than me and have a better job than I do perhaps you can explain it to me? It will be a nasty surprise for you but I manage to do on one account: exploration, manufacturing, missioning, interceptors, interdictors, covert ops, research etc, etc. If you can't do it, then you should try harder, or at least stop making excuses that you need so many account just to explore Eve and not to buy nice expensive toys for your PvP char. You should also learn that when you make ad hominem remark, you are likely to get on back straight in your face. Wanna try some more?
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:59:00 - [95] Here's a nice case study for you btw. I'm selling all three of my accounts because I start my lousy job as a medical resident in a couple months and I won't have the time to play eve. You can look at these three toons and see clearly how they allowed me to explore different ships/races/skills during my limited time here. Aescelpius Enkindu Thaeus As for your idiotic rant about not being able to support my "pvp" with one character, my main pvp toon was also my main money maker and supported the other two.
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:03:00 - [96] Originally by: Estephania It will be a nasty surprise for you but I manage to do on one account: exploration, manufacturing, missioning, interceptors, interdictors, covert ops, research etc, etc. If you can't do it, then you should try harder, or at least stop making excuses that you need so many account just to explore Eve and not to buy nice expensive toys for your PvP char. You should also learn that when you make ad hominem remark, you are likely to get on back straight in your face. Wanna try some more? Yes please, I want to go some more. Please link your uber character so I can see the error of my ways.
Susung	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:04:00 - [97] Originally by: Estephania Sorry, guys, I have my job and it's most likely better than yours. Tell to someone else how you "explore the endless possibilities of Eve" with your many accounts. It's simply your lot are not smart enough to finance your PvP fun with just one account, so that you need to explore missions grinding and many hours mining sessions. If I ever feel that I don't have enough ISK to enjoy Eve, I'd rather sell several GTCs to ppl with many accounts since many of them can't afford to pay for 3-4 accounts with their stellar jobs, lol. If simplifying it helps you understand, by all means, but please don't post that narrowed viewpoint. I understand why multiple accounts may not be the best idea for you. As, has been stated multiple times before, in this thread, Did you read it? We can be of use to you in an infinite number of ways. I suggest you read the previous posts, please, you may find that we can help you compete in ways that have nothing to do with ISK grinding. Susung founder: Alt anti defamation league
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:16:00 - [98] It's amazing how ppl start an ad hominem debate and quickly get burned themselves. Now you had to tell what your RL job is (or will be), you are trying to justify yourself and state that your job is not that bad, while hadn't you call me a loser with a lousy job, you wouldn't come to this at all. After all it was the "pro alt" camp that brought the job argument here. I do not need to justify anything and bring my RL job here to prove my point. I have left the stage when I bragged about my per annum income behind me. I never did that on video game forums anyway and I'm not going to do it now. May be you use your alts to explore different aspects of Eve who knows. However it is clear that for the vast majority of alt users, the alts are utility alts which are there to make "the harsh and unforgiving world of Eve" a little bit more forgiving and warm.
Susung	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:18:00 - [99] It will be a nasty surprise for you but I manage to do on one account: exploration, manufacturing, missioning, interceptors, interdictors, covert ops, research etc, etc. If you can't do it, then you should try harder, or at least stop making excuses that you need so many account just to explore Eve and not to buy nice expensive toys for your PvP char. You should also learn that when you make ad hominem remark, you are likely to get on back straight in your face. Wanna try some more? I am sure you do an adequate job at several things and do not excel at anything. Go ahead you know you want to. Click the free trial link on the homepage new Worlds will open up to you. Oh and a fresh untrained toon can manufacture and research for you. shouldn't have wasted your time. You can get 2 for free. You could be flying command ships by now.
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:29:00 - [100] Originally by: Estephania It's amazing how ppl start an ad hominem debate and quickly get burned themselves. Now you had to tell what your RL job is (or will be), you are trying to justify yourself and state that your job is not that bad, while hadn't you call me a loser with a lousy job, you wouldn't come to this at all. After all it was the "pro alt" camp that brought the job argument here. I do not need to justify anything and bring my RL job here to prove my point. I have left the stage when I bragged about my per annum income behind me. I never did that on video game forums anyway and I'm not going to do it now. May be you use your alts to explore different aspects of Eve who knows. However it is clear that for the vast majority of alt users, the alts are utility alts which are there to make "the harsh and unforgiving world of Eve" a little bit more forgiving and warm. 1)All I said originally was that anyone who finds the cost of additional eve accounts prohibitive probably shouldn't be wasting money on the game in the first place. You were the one that percieved this as a personal attack and responded by announcing that you probably had a better job than everyone else. 2)I bring up my forthcoming job in the hopes that people will understand why I'm leaving the game. Come to think of it I probably won't be able to afford it timewise OR financially.. residents get paid squat. 3)If you are making the argument that you can reasonably "do it all" with one character, where is a link to your character? It is easy to do here :ineve 4)You are entitled to your own opinions of course, but try to make sense/support your claims. I've been listening to people whine about alts on this forum for years and I'm tired of all the silliness.
Kayna Eelai Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:51:00 - [101] Originally by: Cpt Branko Outright lie. 1) Capital ships. Yes, your corp will pop cynos whenever you need somewhere and if you leave corp you can reprocess it or have to join a new one. Riiiight. You need a cyno alt. To say otherwise is to be silly, to be realistic. could you please enlighten me how you log in 2 chars from the same account AT SAME TIME for a cyno? ppl. really needs to L2READ before they press the reply button. it has been clarified already that we're talking about ALTS not secondary accounts. my 2c? either buff alts by being able to train skills (even if slowed down) on them at same time as your main, or just delete the "feature" as it's pointless anyways. with the skill training limitation i wonder why we can only make 2 anyways, any other MMO lets you create docens. the whole alt feature is so full of crap... get rid off it already. and again, coz i know ppl. just won't get it with 1 time being said: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALTS, NOT SECONDARY ACCOUNTS fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:10:00 - [102] I don't claim my job to be better than everybody else, and certainly I'm not going to prove anything using that "argument". As you're tired of ppl who whine about alts, I'm tired of ppl who value success in Eve as success in RL. Like "OMG you don't have another account, that's because you're flipping burgers IRL, go get a job". Eve is just a game, many ppl here need to write it 100 times in their diary. Like that guy who said that my char is not excelling in anything and I could have been flying Command Ships if I had alts. I probably could, but SO WHAT? My toon has probably 2-3 mill sp's less in certain fields because I've trained exploration or manufacturing skills at that time, SO WHAT? OMG, I'm so stupid, that means that I'm a RL loser and I should stop selling roses on the street, oh noes. Grow up, ppl it's just a game after all, and if I don't have more than one toon is most likely because I don't care enough to get it; and if my toon is not so efficient then so what? Are we talking about national security here? Or US budget for the next fiscal year? No, we are talking about internet spaceships game ffs.
Chi'an Peimei Caldari Draconian Toymaker Corp	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:13:00 - [103] Originally by: Estephania This kind of ignorance is amusing. Yes, 15$ is nothing more than 1/2 an hour of work for many ppl. Personally, I wouldn't bother with more than 1 account because of the lack of time, I'd rather sell GTCs as my time worth much more in RL than in Eve. But ppl like you should rally get off their high horse and travel around the world. No, I don't mean Disneyland or French Riviera. Visit different countries and see how ppl live there. Then it will probably be clear to you that not everyone was lucky to be born in the golden billion country and there are 4 billion of ppl who consider $15 not such a small amount. Of course poor ppl don't play Eve (when I say poor here I mean really poor ppl and not those who prefer to receive welfare and cry about their lousy existance because they didn't care to get any education or qualification in their life). In Eve we have ppl from all over the world, even from countries where $15 more per month can make a difference, so man, get off your high horse and look around you a little bit. Please do not social commentary you stuck up ***. Some people on welfare genuinely have no choice. I am on Social Security Disablity due to health reasons... I had insurance, and afterwards, I had State insurance... now I have Federal Insurance.... My issues would never have left me permanently out of work if there was better regulations on HMO's, and if state insurance was worth a damn. Due to the insurance not covering a brace, and due to the state not covering the operation that became nessisary because the HMO would not cover a $1500 set of braces, my legs, back, and body in general are now totally ed up. Live on the lower end of the spectrum for 1 month before you open your goddamn mouth again. STFU and ** off. Tobias Creed did tell you all that I am more offensive than he is... Now go do the dishes like your mom is screaming so you can come back to your basement and play more EVE online
Louisa Ferncliff	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:15:00 - [104] Just for clarification, from my point of view an "alt" refers to a "secondary account." Those other two toons available on your account are basically useless for anything except stuff like research, manufacturing, etc. and that requires taking huge amounts of training time for your "main." They also don't provide any tactical advantage since they can't be logged in with your other characters. I guess some people use them as spies.. I dunno. I've never put even a small amount of training time into those other two slots on my accounts.
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:22:00 - [105] Originally by: Estephania Sorry, guys, I have my job and it's most likely better than yours. Originally by: Estephania I don't claim my job to be better than everybody else Enough said. You gonna link this super alt-free character so we can all benefit from your experience?
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:32:00 - [106] Originally by: Enkindu Originally by: Estephania Sorry, guys, I have my job and it's most likely better than yours. Originally by: Estephania I don't claim my job to be better than everybody else Enough said. You gonna link this super alt-free character so we can all benefit from your experience? I've said "most likely" in the first sentence and "everybody else" in the second. You still couldn't catch me, although you were close. The toon is not that amazing. It is possible to fly what I fly (which is heavily specced in one race and just short of command ships) and have good exploration, acceptable manufacturing and good science skills with 30 mill sp char. There's no magic in that. It took some time to train that and with alts I could have been better, but again so what? I play the game the way I play and if I feel that I desperately need a capital ship pilot (although I despise POS warfare and everything connected with it) I will simply buy cap ship toon and replace one of my 2 spare n00b alts with it. Problem solved.
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:53:00 - [107] Originally by: Estephania It's amazing how ppl start an ad hominem debate and quickly get burned themselves. Read the thread again and look up "ad hominem." I find it quite funny that you described precisely what happened to you in this thread. Originally by: Estephania As you're tired of ppl who whine about alts, I'm tired of ppl who value success in Eve as success in RL. Like "OMG you don't have another account, that's because you're flipping burgers IRL, go get a job". Eve is just a game, many ppl here need to write it 100 times in their diary. Like that guy who said that my char is not excelling in anything and I could have been flying Command Ships if I had alts. I probably could, but SO WHAT? My toon has probably 2-3 mill sp's less in certain fields because I've trained exploration or manufacturing skills at that time, SO WHAT? OMG, I'm so stupid, that means that I'm a RL loser and I should stop selling roses on the street, oh noes. Grow up, ppl it's just a game after all, and if I don't have more than one toon is most likely because I don't care enough to get it; and if my toon is not so efficient then so what? Are we talking about national security here? Or US budget for the next fiscal year? No, we are talking about internet spaceships game ffs. You are missing the point entirely. People said that alts give an unfair advantage to those who can afford them. I said that if you can't afford a couple eve accounts, you probably shouldn't be playing in the first place and I stand by this. You were the one that started this debate by saying that the only reason people use alts is because they were too stupid to "make it" with one character. We've given you lots of evidence to the contrary in this thread. I'm indulging your arguments here because, quite frankly, it's fun... but I'm starting to feel bad. There is someone here that's taking this a bit too seriously, and it's not me.... Go play eve however you want and have fun. Hell, I'm leaving anyway.
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:56:00 - [108] alts in eve should go for the good of the game. they won't let you change your char name to ensure your reputation stays with you for life. then they allow you to create alts and trash them to avoid this. makes no sense to me. alts just allow you to do things like train a pair of alts for generating r and d points or to open up more research/production slots. this is just messing with the game mechanics and i lean toward it being something of an exploit.
BlackSail	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:59:00 - [109] Originally by: Wu Jiun Whats with people who already have 2 chars on 1 account? I have 2 chars on one of my accounts one of which has 9m sp and the other has 6. Both have skill plans for the future! I am sure many people are in this situation and actually like to be able to play in 2 different corps or living 2 lifes one as an industrialist and another one as low-life scum maybe? If everyone did this and kept their alts lives seperate there wouldnt be a problem. The problem is when people use alts to hurt other players or to avoid interation with other players. Which isnt so bad by itself, but when too many people do that it ruins the economy and limits the takes away from the dynamic game play.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:08:00 - [110] It is time to end whines. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
BlackSail	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:20:00 - [111] Originally by: Chi'an Peimei What, do they have a stupid idea on how to wreck games school? WTF man? First, there was the remove local thread... now this. Really, I would say there must be something in the water, but this is a world wide game. Now I'm worried about catching the stupids. Ignorant game ideas based on the bad reaction on a very minority of the player base can and has killed games in the past. I ENJOY PLAYING ON MY ALTS. I don't spy with my alts, I don't scam... on one account I have a Raven pilot and a HAC pilot. What, I should lose the months of training time and stop being able to enjoy playing the seperate chars? I love doing the missions in Caldari space in the Raven, but I can't just throw away the PVP fun of my Vagabond.... This is bull**** plain and simple.... and you having no effing idea of how lame this game would be without alts. Several corps I have been in have been war dec'd by corps 5x or more their size... so i just go and do something else... you would take away the escape from constant POS warfare? I wanna know where whoever beat you got the stupid forest to beat you with is! If you are wardec'd you make an alliance, gather your corp and make a defense perimeter in a system, hire a merc corp, or leave the corp. This is a PVP game. However, playing second lagitimate characters isnt the problem. Using a second character to infiltrate an opposing corp to steal everything from their corp hangar or kill the corp members without Concord coming after you would be the problem that we are talking about. Imagine if someone did that to you. Then they transfer all your corps mods and other stolen loot to their main and delete the alt and start a new one. Then they wait a few weeks to skill up a new "clean" alt and restart the process. This happens all the time.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:37:00 - [112] Who cares about alts if u have another account anyways, i just use em to scout prices in Jita CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:53:00 - [113] Having alt accounts/characters greatly encriches my playing experience, both by allowing me to explore and experience more aspects of the game, and by allowing me to be busy on two accounts at once, thus eliminating the need to 'sit around and wait' that comprises much of EVE. My own alts have increased my happiness more than others alts have decreased it. The main problem with alts is on the forums. You can never block people from having more than one account, and thus access to alts, so it seems silly to try to prevent them from having alts on the same account (which are by definition less powerful)
Grim Vandal Caldari Burn Proof	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:00:00 - [114] EVE fails at alts. Simple as that. If you dont like it leave. Dont ask for things that will never change cuz they wont. Greetings Grim
Kurtis Lowe	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:41:00 - [115] wow that's the new dumbest thing i've heard on the eveO forums. Congrats and take yer a** back to WoW
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:46:00 - [116] THIS IS NOW AN IMAGE THREAD Image - DesuSigs
Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:50:00 - [117] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. epic...posted by an alt...i dont know how this will be outdone.
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:50:00 - [118] You can't get rid of alts overnight If everyone lost their manufacturing alts, there'd be economic meltdown What is needed are ways to make alts less attractive / more attractive alternatives rather than arbitrary deletion or punishing people who use them E.g. More manufacturing slots per player or a different non-skills based system for manufacturing, so that only a mug would be silly enough to buy a whole other account for manufacturing purposes Khaldari khanidpublic: RP channel for Kingdom loyalists Recruiting
Sky KiorSun Minmatar Kinetic Vector Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:53:00 - [119] Originally by: Spoon Thumb What is needed are ways to make alts less attractive / more attractive alternatives rather than arbitrary deletion or punishing people who use them Yes i totally agree, make alts less attractive.....Cos I want to be the prettiest 'Typical male. Satisfy yourself first.'
Eternal Hatred Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.01.10 20:00:00 - [120] Originally by: Crumplecorn THIS IS NOW AN IMAGE THREAD Image You sir, you have just won eve-o for this week. Gz for your success! _________________ I'm a whorum warrior alt and current number of people in Jita is 977856 It's great being an Amarr

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It's great being an Amarr