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It is time to end alts

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Vaari Amarr Imperial Pharmacy	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:25:00 - [1] I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. This beginning. This birth of life. This dawn of greatness. I can not fail, for I have the Emperor to lead me and destiny to follow. undefined
Maasus Maxx GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:26:00 - [2] No
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:27:00 - [3] Possibly the dumbest suggestion since the one to work alts into the design of the game. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:28:00 - [4] I demand the next patch remove you from the player database. _________________________________
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:28:00 - [5] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. Your ideas are intriguing. I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:32:00 - [6] If we ended alt, what would I press to talk on ventrilo? Can we just keep the right alt? I hardly ever use the left one! _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Valrandir Gallente Slacker Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:34:00 - [7] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. Yes 1- Warn that in 6 months all alts will be terminated and each account will only hold one character. 2- In 6 months, do it. -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware - Oveur
Victor Forge Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:36:00 - [8] No, but make it possible to see all alts of a poster in forums. Then posters will have to stand for their posts instead of hiding behind alts. In game there is no better or more available Scout than a completly untrained alt with no implants in a starter ship. It is simply not worth the ammo to kill.
Haradgrim The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:01:00 - [9] I sometimes wonder how "certain" people manage to get up in the morning and avoid dying throughout the day..... The problem with any attempt to ban alts (I'm actually for alts, but I'm currently only commenting on the technical limitations) is that its well, impossible. I'd like to see someone come up with a method that didn't result in one or all of the following: 1) Removal of GTCs 2) Banning of any family member or roomate that makes use of the same IP to play 3) Parents unable to pay for Child / Spouse account with the same credit card or: if you meant simply 1 character per account: 1) Cries of injustice from those who can't afford two Easier solution; Step 1) if someone's alt is harrassing you, report it. Step 2) If the GMs do nothing; its not harrassment. in which case: Step 3) turn around and punch them in the mouth. Too Many of them? Step 4) Get some friends Still doesn't work: Step 5) Give me your stuff Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Miki Fin Gallente Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Victor Forge No, but make it possible to see all alts of a poster in forums. Then posters will have to stand for their posts instead of hiding behind alts. In game there is no better or more available Scout than a completly untrained alt with no implants in a starter ship. It is simply not worth the ammo to kill. As long as we do the same ingame too.
Big Edward Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:15:00 - [11] This is a topic, like perma death, that gets resurrected 1) everytime a new game goes into development, 2) every so often when people get frustrated with various aspects of a game and need something to blame it on. I've played in places that only allowed one character. Actually, I played on a private UO server that not only had a one character limit but implemented permanent death. I think SWG also had a one character limit, at least in the early days, but they had multiple servers, you could make new characters on other servers. The biggest problem is not being about to try out new things, new races, etc. Creating alts is the game for some people, it was damm near a skill tree in CoH. The differences in EVE between various types is small so it could probably be done without too much pain but it sure is nice to put on a new skin and go hide occasionally. Big Ed
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:17:00 - [12] At the later stages this game is built on alts. Play it for 2 years and you will understand that the code name for Eve is "alts online". How do you think all those guys with pirate implants and uber T2 ships are financing their PvP activity?
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:33:00 - [13] Edited by: Andrue on 09/01/2008 21:34:36 Originally by: Estephania At the later stages this game is built on alts. Play it for 2 years and you will understand that the code name for Eve is "alts online". How do you think all those guys with pirate implants and uber T2 ships are financing their PvP activity? If they are financing with 'alts' in the truest sense of the word they are gimping their primary. You can only train one char per account. More likely those people have multiple accounts in which case they are paying for the privilege. Using multiple accounts that way probably means only playing one at once. In that case CCP is getting extra money without their infrastruture being under extra load. I pay for two accounts but almost never play both at once so I end up paying double the subscription for the same amount of time spent on the server. If people couldn't fund a PvP life with a PvE life they wouldn't PvP as much. Using another char to fund your PvP life is good for the game. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:33:00 - [14] Banning alts won't work, people will just use multiple accounts. And there's no feasible way to ban multiple accounts, and no game company wishes to sabotage their earnings enough to try ;P
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:40:00 - [15] Originally by: Pwett Can we just keep the right alt? I hardly ever use the left one! No. Cause thats alt gr - presumably thats the griefer alt the OP whines about --
Vansard	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. Yes! yes! yes! That would be the best move to do. No more hauling alts, trading alts, production & mining alts, science alts, scam alts, pirate alts, recon alts, social alts, etc... . You all keep whining Eve is overcrowded - is mainly overcrowded by alts, multiple accounts & mutiple accounts alts. I'm sure it would only make the game better.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Valrandir Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. Yes 1- Warn that in 6 months all alts will be terminated and each account will only hold one character. 2- In 6 months, do it. 3- In another 3 months fix the people who had their mains deleted instead. Explain it was an error in the SQL. ---- Anything less is wasted effort
Battleclash	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:50:00 - [18] I have a dream my brothers and sisters! I have a dream that one day, alts and mains alike, will live together in peace and harmony on this world. Yes, I have a dream that one day no character shall be thought of as a lesser man because he is called an alt. Now I ask you my brothers and sisters, do you see this dream as I do hallelujah!? Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Stupidity is universal.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:52:00 - [19] Define Alt. - DesuSigs
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:54:00 - [20] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. Leave my alts alone you nasty man! I have a cyno alt and a scouting alt, and I apologise for neither. Your problem is not with alts but the people behind them. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Dunedon Ansillon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:56:00 - [21] How about you keep alts, but make them truely alternate CHARACTERS, not cannon fodder, forum ***s or scam/suicide bait. Make it so no character on a single account can have more than 50% of the total SP of the account, would force those that want to play differant characters to split their training (which they would have to do anyway to have playable characters) ... and would make it difficult to impossible for people to create "useless" alts, without paying for it by reduced training on their main. Just a suggestion that allows alts, but I think reduces some of the headaches associated with their misuse. - Dunedon ------ WYSIWYG:** I don't post with an Alt ... if I die in game for having an opinion, at least I know someone listened. - Dunedon
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:00:00 - [22] Originally by: Dunedon Edited by: Dunedon on 09/01/2008 21:57:56 How about you keep alts, but make them truely alternate CHARACTERS, not cannon fodder, forum *****s or scam/suicide bait. Make it so no character on a single account can have more than 50% of the total SP of the account, would force those that want to play differant characters to split their training (which they would have to do anyway to have playable characters) ... and would make it difficult to impossible for people to create "useless" alts, without paying for it by reduced training on their main. Just a suggestion that allows alts, but I think reduces some of the headaches associated with their misuse. Edit: And to Crumplecorn's point ... I'm defining alt here as a secondary (or tertiary) character on a single account ... I have zero problem with people paying for more than one account to play multiple characters simultaniously. - Dunedon This wouldnt really work. If for example, you had two character, and you wanted to train one to be a RECON specialist, and the other a cap ship pilot. The cap ship pilot would take FAR FAR more skills to train, and so you would have to spend at least twice the time training garbage skills on your other characters so that you could just get your cap ship training in. _________________________________
Uchuu Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:08:00 - [23] I suggest CCP figure out a way to be able to control multiple accounts/chars simultaneously on one client, like an RTS.
Vansard	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:21:00 - [24] Originally by: Dunedon Edited by: Dunedon on 09/01/2008 21:57:56 How about you keep alts, but make them truely alternate CHARACTERS, not cannon fodder, forum *****s or scam/suicide bait. ... I was thinking about some kind of punishment for intesive char swapping. This would be something connected to skill training too. It could work the following way: if you swap char, the char you left has skill training stopped, and has a 24h timer before he can skill train again. It would block pretty well those that uses alts on a daily basis, but still make alts valid as a way to experience with other gameplay approach.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:24:00 - [25] Originally by: Vansard Originally by: Dunedon Edited by: Dunedon on 09/01/2008 21:57:56 How about you keep alts, but make them truely alternate CHARACTERS, not cannon fodder, forum *****s or scam/suicide bait. ... I was thinking about some kind of punishment for intesive char swapping. This would be something connected to skill training too. It could work the following way: if you swap char, the char you left has skill training stopped, and has a 24h timer before he can skill train again. It would block pretty well those that uses alts on a daily basis, but still make alts valid as a way to experience with other gameplay approach. Hey, thanks. What about those of us that don't use our alts to smack-post, grief or generally be ass holes? See if you can find someone that will claim I have ever done those things, let alone metagamed, scammed, broken a 1v1, etc etc etc. Why should I be punished? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Uchuu I suggest CCP figure out a way to be able to control multiple accounts/chars simultaneously on one client, like an RTS. Yes because the overview isn't clogged up enough already. About the only real complaint I can see is using alts to infiltrate your enemys corp and spy on him. The current system makes this ridiculously easy if you have even the smallest scrap of brain matter floating around in your head. Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
Akane Miyamoto Paisti Paisti Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:53:00 - [27] I see Vaari finally got sick of alts corp thiefing IPHAR. To be honest removing alts let alone preventing their creation (Which is impossible because you can just make a new account.. Oh wait, most people already use alts on separate accounts!) is ridiculous. I think it's time you tighten your grib on member processing and start ruling your corp with more cruel methods, you're amarr after all aren't you? ;) --------------- The Miyamotos, Chaper #1
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:55:00 - [28] Originally by: Malcanis Hey, thanks. What about those of us that don't use our alts to smack-post, grief or generally be ass holes? See if you can find someone that will claim I have ever done those things, let alone metagamed, scammed, broken a 1v1, etc etc etc. Why should I be punished? Or me... I do all that with my main... my alt just sells the goods and has no idea where they came from Originally by: Tarminic Okay, that's it. You are on the KOS list, and you better pray that I don't have access to a locater agent.
Pendana Mider	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:00:00 - [29] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Uchuu I suggest CCP figure out a way to be able to control multiple accounts/chars simultaneously on one client, like an RTS. Yes because the overview isn't clogged up enough already. About the only real complaint I can see is using alts to infiltrate your enemys corp and spy on him. The current system makes this ridiculously easy if you have even the smallest scrap of brain matter floating around in your head. Don't let anyone join your corp then?
Seeker Khan	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:03:00 - [30] I am an alt and I like being an alt. I know its early, but you lead the award for "Damn Stupid Idea Of 2008"
Mizerik Grettistak	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:05:00 - [31] Edited by: Mizerik on 09/01/2008 23:13:50 so whats the difference between an alt and a main? Wow, so much anger about alts. So banning multi accounts from a IP address? So much for DCHP assigned IP's... So much for internet Cafe's... only one account with a credit card? Hmm, guess that means that all those people out there with more then one credit card won't have to worry about it? Those who don't use them (by choice or not) can't play Eve. Remove alts on an account with a 6 month warning? So what happens to all the time and isk I spent on training those chars? Do I get reimbursment from CCP? and a credit into random skills on my Main ? or do I get screwed ? Do I like greifers? nope lots of old players that bother high sec carebears, they leave me alone because I come in a big ship and have friends :) ******* So quit crying, if your being bothered get some friends or move. Because you can't/won't use an alt thats on you. Many of us have these things called "Friends" who come over and play so the whole IP address thing will never happen as I'd bet the vast majority of us use routers with 1 IP outbound. Learn something about computers and how a network works before talking about it. btw, I used all the icons because I am bored and thought this post needed some humor as the orig poster needs to be wardec'd so we can get past all the whineing and get strait to the crying
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:11:00 - [32] Originally by: Mizerik so whats the difference between an alt and a main? There's two different issues here. 1) multiple characters on the single account. They are obviously alts as usually only one of 3 is heavily trained and used. 2) multiple accounts. Here defining an alt is more difficult as the accounts strictly speaking are equal. However usually characters that are ISK cows for another character are considered alts. For example, you have 3 accounts. One is a PvPer, another one is a miner and another one is an industrialist. If you regularly transfer ISK from miner/industrialist to PvPer so that you could PvP in a nice expensive ships, then miner and industrialist are your alts and the PvPer is your main. Obviously it's just an issue of semantics, everybody knows what an alt is and what they are for, because nearly everybody uses them.
Mizerik Grettistak	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:18:00 - [33] I use alts, simply because 1 out of 4 of them are alwasy wardec'd and I don't like losing my ships before I fly them. Yes i can ask/hire someone to move them for me but why bother when I can do it myself with 100% reliability, no contracting needed, no waiting. I produce my own ammo/mods and t1 ships so don't need to waste time searching the market for stuff then going to get it. My main pvpr is the only char that has missions above L4 and my Main industialist has a freighter, Dread, Carrier while my other alts are just lonely cyno's who sit in space waiting for me to call them.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:19:00 - [34] Alts were an awful design decision to begin with, but taking them away can't realistically be done without slapping all the players in the face who have been paying for them. If they DID decide to get rid of alts, the only realistic way to do it is to stop offering that service to new subscribers. People would complain that the older players have an advantage since they had a chance to get alts, but whatever. A few years down the line it will all hopefully be water under the bridge.
Coffeegoffer	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:32:00 - [35] quite possibly the dumbest idea I've heard yet. Sorry, I don't troll much but alts are a saving grace for this game and given the complexity of the in-game universe and inability for a character to perform logistics AND fight effectively an alt is practically a necessity in 'end game' scenarios. And, umn, does the whole 'two for one' marketing that CCP introduces every now and again for a second account basically promote having an alt? Duh. Proudly posted with my alt. Just cause I can. ;)
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:36:00 - [36] Originally by: Coffeegoffer quite possibly the dumbest idea I've heard yet. Sorry, I don't troll much but alts are a saving grace for this game and given the complexity of the in-game universe and inability for a character to perform logistics AND fight effectively an alt is practically a necessity in 'end game' scenarios. Actually that was the point where you were supposed to work with your friends, the community simply found a shortcut.
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:40:00 - [37] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. -6/100 Student shows no effort or ability. Recommend that they not graduate this year and receive special education classes in the next. --
BlackSail	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:46:00 - [38] Alts were not meant to be a part of EVE. The game is designed so that everyone can do anything with a single character. The reason we can make three characters goes back to beta so testers could explore different areas and different mids faster. CCP decided to just let the multiple characters go thinking that the restriction of 1 skill training at a time on an account would basically have the same affect. The secondary characters or "alts" were meant to be if someone lost too much standing and didnt want to build it back up they could start a new character without deleting their first one. CCP didnt want people to exploit secondary characters by using them for militious purposes, but since it happened at an uncontrollable rate they just decided to run with it. As far as seperate accounts, there isnt really a way to stop it. CCP isn't going to limit 1 account per credit card number or anything. It would hurt them financially.
Mutabae	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:52:00 - [39] No.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:57:00 - [40] I don't understand why some people hate alts so much. So, no. Originally by: Riethe You know the female who does the voice for Aura? Do you ever think when she's alone with her boyfriend, she's like... "Docking request accepted" ?
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:03:00 - [41] Edited by: Estephania on 10/01/2008 00:03:45 Originally by: Mr Friendly I don't understand why some people hate alts so much. So, no. Many ppl dislike alts because it's dirty gaming. It's like playing Sims with 3 toons where two are working and earning simoleons non-stop so that the remaining toon had all the money to spend on the cool stuff. It is not cheating, but it destroys the immersion and atmosphere of the virtual world.
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Estephania Many ppl dislike alts because it's dirty gaming. It's like playing Sims with 3 toons where two are working and earning simoleons non-stop so that the remaining toon had all the money to spend on the cool stuff. It is not cheating, but it destroys the immersion and atmosphere of the virtual world. Eve is more like an RTS of some kind anyway, it's better with more than one unit to micromanage. --
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:12:00 - [43] I created two untrained 800K SP alts so I could bring supplies to my pirate main and sell loot in high-sec. If I could go to high-sec (even if it was risky) on my main char, I'd do it. However, I can't. Hence, alts. Rifters!
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:15:00 - [44] Originally by: Estephania Edited by: Estephania on 10/01/2008 00:03:45 Originally by: Mr Friendly I don't understand why some people hate alts so much. So, no. Many ppl dislike alts because it's dirty gaming. It's like playing Sims with 3 toons where two are working and earning simoleons non-stop so that the remaining toon had all the money to spend on the cool stuff. It is not cheating, but it destroys the immersion and atmosphere of the virtual world. You mean how you get two sims to fall in love and marry, then tell the expendible one to jump in the pool with no steps out and wait until your main sim is single again but with the now-dead one's money? Didn't everyone do that? ---- Anything less is wasted effort
BlackSail	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:19:00 - [45] Originally by: Mr Friendly I don't understand why some people hate alts so much. The problem is that when people use an alt to start a corp with an alt, then take their main and its corp to go kill or steal from the smaller corp. It ruins the game for alot of people. If alts werent in the game then you could see peoples employment history and see where they have been and know that its not some pirate corps puppet. Alts defeat the purpose of security ratings and employment history and make it possible for poeple to harass, swindle, rob others through the use of the corp system without any trace or repercussion to their main character. That said, its now a part of the game and I have learned to deal with it, but alot of new players have their games ruinned by this and it prevents people from making large scale corporations because you really cant trust anyone. Judging a player by the character activities is impossible now.
BlackSail	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:30:00 - [46] Originally by: Mizerik I use alts, simply because 1 out of 4 of them are alwasy wardec'd and I don't like losing my ships before I fly them. Yes i can ask/hire someone to move them for me but why bother when I can do it myself with 100% reliability, no contracting needed, no waiting. I produce my own ammo/mods and t1 ships so don't need to waste time searching the market for stuff then going to get it. My main pvpr is the only char that has missions above L4 and my Main industialist has a freighter, Dread, Carrier while my other alts are just lonely cyno's who sit in space waiting for me to call them. This is the biggest problem with alts. EVE is supposed to be an interactive game. Many implemented systems have become useless (like the courier system) because of this. EVE would be so much more intracate and dynamic if people couldnt use alts.
Arpiter	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:33:00 - [47] Stupidist idea ever. Some people like me enjoy paying for 5 accounts and actually skilling our alts
SumDum AirHawk Alliance Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:40:00 - [48] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. Post with your main :P
BlackSail	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:46:00 - [49] Originally by: Cpt Branko Outright lie. 1) Capital ships. Yes, your corp will pop cynos whenever you need somewhere and if you leave corp you can reprocess it or have to join a new one. Riiiight. You need a cyno alt. To say otherwise is to be silly, to be realistic. 2) Pirates. Now, yes, you could have someone else in the corp to do your resupplying/loot selling. Over his alt. However, two basic 800K SP alts are a pirate's best friend; you use them for selling your loot and for transporting loot from low-sec to high-sec trade hubs and for brining in supplies from high-sec trade hubs to low-sec. I don't hear of many T2 producers/suppliers in low-sec now (or people buying carebear stuff in low-sec), do I now? If I could take my main to high-sec even with a risk involved, i would. But as I can't, I must metagame or ask other people with a positive sec status (and I don't know many of those now) to buy me supplies and sell my loot (which is preety damn tedious, setting 50 sell orders with all the market lag), which they might do once or twice. Plus, trusting someone with selling faction/high-value loot is something I really wouldn't do. It is no lie. Thats how the game was initially designed. Carriers and cyno's are pretty recent additions to the game. Years after CCP decided that it couldnt stop the use of alts. Furthermore, CCP does alot to encourage player interaction. They are not trying to encourage alt use, though they accept it now. As to your second point, CCP did originally decide to allow side characters for the purpose of getting around security status issues, and thats it. Thats why they allowed alts that were limited by the skill training rule. Most problems occur with multiple accounts and the blatant militious activities. I am not basing my arguement on what I heard from others, im basing it on my experience during the beta testing and when the game was released to the general public.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.10 01:02:00 - [50] Originally by: BlackSail Furthermore, CCP does alot to encourage player interaction. They are not trying to encourage alt use, though they accept it now. Power of two isn not encouraging alt use?!? Originally by: BlackSail As to your second point, CCP did originally decide to allow side characters for the purpose of getting around security status issues, and thats it. Well, they created security status issues in the first place. Allowing outlaws to travel to high-sec (with everyone able to shoot em though) wouldn't have made it a requirement for pirates to use alts. There'd still be advantages, but it wouldn't be essentially mandatory to do so. Rifters!
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.01.10 01:22:00 - [51] I can't stand that argument that you "need" a cyno alt. I don't care how hard cap ships are to fly without one. If you don't have someone who can light a cyno for you, don't fly cap ships. Period. With all the nerfs and such lately, and just the general trend towards making Eve easier, would it really be so horrible to implement, as a counterweight to this, a no-new-alts policy? This policy of course would only apply to new players. I can at least understand older players feeling cheated if their alts (and, in a way, all that money they spent) were for naught.
Susung	Posted - 2008.01.10 01:50:00 - [52] Silly mains, You cannot end us. I am an ALT on a 4th account. I am not even sure who my main is You cannot stop us you are hopelessly outnumbered CEASE YOUR RESISTANCE.. The outcome is certain. We will treat you well, of course. Truly we are quite fond of you. Don't force us to do something we will regret, we have nothing to lose. That is why we scare you isn't it? We are the characters you can have fun with and not worry about you pitiful reputation. Have you got a corp mate who is an irritating bonehead? No prob I can help with that. Some losers keep war dec'ing your empire corp Not an issue I'll haul the goods to market for you and never ask for a single isk in return. Just remember... I will take any risk for you do any unmentionable duty you feel needs done. I will not, however, tolerate your disloyalty. Now be a good little main keep buying me my pretty toys, don't tell anyone who I am and KEEP YOURSELF QUIET!!! Susung founder: ALT anti defamation league
Galmar Grief Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.01.10 01:50:00 - [53] Even though I believe that alt's are greatly abused, by that I mean they're used as thieves, contract scammers, forum spammers etc... Not to mention they also make a lot of things reduntant now, ie scouting, training certain marketting skills. Bla bla bla, i'm tired, <insert whine about alts being like vibrators, and how with them now i'll never get any friends ;(> The simple fact is, Alts have been a part of the game for a long time, CCP's "Power of two" sales to promote them have continued, I believe 100% eve would have been a FAR FAR FAR better game had alts never existed, people might care a bit about their reputation. Anyway alts are here to stay, even though they do suck completely and should have never imo have existed. CCP chose to stop the whole "multi skill training" thing on accounts because they knew everyone would have a char dedicated to producing stuff, or one dedicated just to PVP'ing that they didnt really care about to greif with. The fact is with GTC's and people with far too much disposable income wether somone can train 3 chars on 1 account or 3 serpate accounts it realyl really doesnt matter. - - - UI Suggestion for Missiles - Can we please turn the damn things off / disable the shake?
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.01.10 01:57:00 - [54] Limit the allowable number of open clients to one tbh.
Schani Kratnorr Internal Revenue Service	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:02:00 - [55] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. Exept people would just get more accounts and use them instead?
Susung	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:05:00 - [56] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Limit the allowable number of open clients to one tbh. I run on 3 separate pc's
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:07:00 - [57] Deleting alts is probably too extreme, even tho I'd go for it. What can happen is that Show Info on a character would also show the 2 alt characters, if they exist. That way you'll always know whose alt it is.
Schani Kratnorr Internal Revenue Service	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:12:00 - [58] why is this a problem again?
Susung	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:18:00 - [59] Originally by: Schani Kratnorr why is this a problem again? Some people don't know how to screen new corp members and give them access to corp assets days after they join. Then when they get ripped off they blame the system instead of their own stupidity. Not gonna learn anything that way IMO
Frygok Minmatar Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:42:00 - [60] Originally by: Schani Kratnorr why is this a problem again? It's not a problem to me personally, if we are talking dual accounting. However, I do believe that the use of alts are discouraging teamwork in much of the PvE aspect in the game. It's simply not worth it to team up with other people to rat, run missions or plexes. You do it with your own alt. I didn't experience it myself, but heard stories of rats in the old days being mean and able to actually destroy your ship. I say bring that back, and make level 4 missions much harder, so they require maybe 2-4 well geared people to complete. It would ofcourse be worthwhile financially. Level 5 missions could be upped to 5-9 man needed, with scaled up reward. Toughen up the NPC's please. Now, this doesn't reflect that much on alts ofcourse, and you can't and shouldn't ban multiple accounts. However, making it more of a team effort and require a bit of skill to do missions, ratting, complexes (can be tough atm), would maybe let people team up instead of playing solo-Eve. Something that multiple accounts definately have promoted (sadly).
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.01.10 03:27:00 - [61] Let people turn in their alts for the jove option, a miniscule chance at morphing their character to jove, with an ever so slight increase for each month people have been playing. One time per account roll of the dice after the alt slots have been terminated. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2008.01.10 04:53:00 - [62] Whats with people who already have 2 chars on 1 account? I have 2 chars on one of my accounts one of which has 9m sp and the other has 6. Both have skill plans for the future! I am sure many people are in this situation and actually like to be able to play in 2 different corps or living 2 lifes one as an industrialist and another one as low-life scum maybe?
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 04:58:00 - [63] Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 10/01/2008 05:03:49 Oh 'Eck Vaari... I can never work out if you're for real or not... You log in, fly your carrier round a bit outside the station shouting 'I'm Lord Vaari - You are all my servents/slaves etc" with lots of pomp and vigour, and you never drop your character for a second. Please tell me you're not like this when you go to the shops to buy your potatoes, or go the doctors for a check-up.... (or post on the forums!?)
Xaziar Nortocus Knights of the Burger King YTMND.	Posted - 2008.01.10 06:20:00 - [64] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. ....Its been said before and I will say it again... NO Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn In other news, water still wet. Film at 11.
Thornat	Posted - 2008.01.10 06:35:00 - [65] Originally by: Valrandir Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. Yes 1- Warn that in 6 months all alts will be terminated and each account will only hold one character. 2- In 6 months, do it. While I hate the idea of alts, at this point I don't see how you could justify eliminating them. I mean although 90% of the player base abuses alt characters there are a considerable amount of players who actually train multiple characters or have trainned certain characters up to a point (for a specific purpose) and then train a new character with equal intensity making their Alt characters quite a bit more then what most ALTS are. Deleting those characters would simply be extremly unfair. The only thing they could concievably do is eliminate the ability to create new alts, but in the end everyone would fill their alts right before the patch is put in and the alts woudl continue to exist so that really wouldn't have much effect. In short, its just too late to eliminate alts in a fashion that would be justifiable. I mean eliminating alts would be the equivilant of suddenly deciding that Carriers where a bad idea and removing them from the game. While most players would be unaffected, the few that spent months trainning for it would probobly be quite upset hence a change like that could never be justified.
Shismo	Posted - 2008.01.10 07:03:00 - [66] Yes! Remove me! Metagaming is evil. One character per account, one account per person. Enforce that last one with IP, credit card number, personal information, and ninjas. This would fix the game in so many ways. 0.0 would become a vast trade empire because nobody would be afraid of alt spies. Macro miners would be significantly hurt also, fixing the economy. And the forums would improve.
SeismicForce Clear Horizon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.10 07:36:00 - [67] Just allow one character per account to post on the forums. Ingame alts should be left as be. Originally by: Allisie In a recent interview, a dev mentioned that ships and skills cause lag and will be removed in EVE 2.
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.10 07:45:00 - [68] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. I'm sure CCP is going to be all over that, bud. Lets see here. How much money would CCP lose "banning" people's ability to make alts? If we assume that there are 100k paying accounts and if we assume 15k of those accounts are "alt" accounts, then CCP stands to lose $225,000 a month or $2.7 million a year. Do you think that CCP hosts this game for fun? CCP is a capitalist entity which is designed to make money. I see the chances of CCP flushing $3,000,000 a year at 0. Thanks, drive through. -Karlemgne
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.10 07:55:00 - [69] Come on, kids, lets get real. See my above post. What is more, do you see a company that just finished offering a "power of two" promotion to get players to pick up multiple accounts "banning" alts? Does it even make sense that some of you are saying "CCP doesn't like alts?" No it doesn't. Your stuff please.
Eternal Hatred Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.01.10 07:59:00 - [70] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Oh 'Eck Vaari... I can never work out if you're for real or not... Sadly, his like this in reallife. I could give you link to his blog but you wouldn't understand it because it's finnish(ish). To Vaari: Proper screen your people before giving hangar access. Again I was left out and PERVS couldn't steal your **. Someone always gets you before us "Kolmas kerta toden sanoo?" Ps. I'm not who you think I am _________________ I'm a whorum warrior alt and current number of people in Jita is 910735** It's great being an Amarr
Vladimir Ilych Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.01.10 08:24:00 - [71] As a person who has one account and one char I would love to see each account forced to this model. Then if you want a scout, research or cyno alt you can either pay for that luxury or use teamwork with your corp mates. This is an MMO right?
Smacktalking Alt	Posted - 2008.01.10 08:28:00 - [72] I'm very much against this proposal.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 08:41:00 - [73] Alts and multi-accounts are here to stay. Yes, they give an unfair advantage to ppl with excessive RL income and they make the game many times dirtier and harder for those who play with just one account, but this is life. RL money buy you candy, even in the virtual world. Eve, where each player would have just one account is an utopia, just like communism - everything is looking great on paper but impossible to implement. When someone can get a degree of in-game advantage using his RL income, he will find a way to do so, that's human nature. Besides that, CCP is a private corporation, the more ppl will have more accounts, the more money will go to CCP - they'll never say no to that.
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.10 10:03:00 - [74] Originally by: Estephania Alts and multi-accounts are here to stay. Yes, they give an unfair advantage to ppl with excessive RL income and they make the game many times dirtier and harder for those who play with just one account, but this is life. RL money buy you candy, even in the virtual world. Eve, where each player would have just one account is an utopia, just like communism - everything is looking great on paper but impossible to implement. When someone can get a degree of in-game advantage using his RL income, he will find a way to do so, that's human nature. Besides that, CCP is a private corporation, the more ppl will have more accounts, the more money will go to CCP - they'll never say no to that. I agree. Alts are here to stay for economic reasons. That little editorial on "communism" though? Crap. Cheers, -Karl
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.10 11:22:00 - [75] Originally by: Victor Forge No, but make it possible to see all alts of a poster in forums. Then posters will have to stand for their posts instead of hiding behind alts. In game there is no better or more available Scout than a completly untrained alt with no implants in a starter ship. It is simply not worth the ammo to kill. Good idea, prevents (some of) the rampart trolling that is going crazy on eve forums currently. It's great being Amarr isn't it. Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Auron Shadowbane Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2008.01.10 11:25:00 - [76] stfu forum alt!
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2008.01.10 11:28:00 - [77] /signed Remove alts, all it is really is a way for people to play the metagame of EVE rather than do everything in game, it sucks and should be removed. If people want more than one character they should pay for them. Having multiple subscriptions on EVE I don't like but it's not a big issue, but removing alts from each account I like. Alts suck. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.01.10 11:29:00 - [78] What about just providing public record of what alts are on the same account? That way if someone posts on the forum with his 'alt', we know what other characters are associated with them. That way you have accountability, regardless of what character you use to post or harass other players. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2008.01.10 11:32:00 - [79] Because I don't give a shit about the forum really, it's the game I care about. I just want people to stop using alts to metagame because metagaming is what makes MMORPG's suck the most. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
RaTTuS BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.10 11:44:00 - [80] so make it so you can only post with one character... my alts have their uses - and have a shed load of SP - they are for when the main 'cannie take any more' labs \| production \| RPM ... etc -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve [Now Verified] & Recruiting
Cosmar Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.01.10 11:58:00 - [81] Edited by: Cosmar on 10/01/2008 11:59:57 Edited by: Cosmar on 10/01/2008 11:58:39 I belive that it would be a great ideea if there were no alts or multiple accounts allowed at all, but that it's way too late at this point to do it. They'll just lose too many people if they go around deleting characters with millions of skillpoints. Not to mention they probably get many thousands of dollars in subscription fees from people with more then one account. As how this would have been implemented ? Well for once you couldn't run two EvE clients at the same time on the same computer/IP adress, which would make multiple accounts useless for most people. And ofcourse one character slot per account. The reason is people cheating the system by avoiding consequences for actions that are done "in the name" of their main, by their alts. Avoiding security rating repercursions and bounties, avoiding combat by scouting ahead, avoiding negative ingame reputation by doing things that would give them bad reputation on disposable alts, using alts to infiltrate other corporations, etc... It would be much better if everyone would just "be" their one character in the game. Maybe there would need to be a way to have a one-off change to the initial stats, other then that i don't see why anyone would ever need a new character for a legitimate purpose, because unlike a MMORPG with "classes" in EvE everyone can learn any skill and do everything. If you're Gallente and want to fly Amarr there's nothing stoping you.
Chi'an Peimei Caldari Draconian Toymaker Corp	Posted - 2008.01.10 12:09:00 - [82] What, do they have a stupid idea on how to wreck games school? WTF man? First, there was the remove local thread... now this. Really, I would say there must be something in the water, but this is a world wide game. Now I'm worried about catching the stupids. Ignorant game ideas based on the bad reaction on a very minority of the player base can and has killed games in the past. I ENJOY PLAYING ON MY ALTS. I don't spy with my alts, I don't scam... on one account I have a Raven pilot and a HAC pilot. What, I should lose the months of training time and stop being able to enjoy playing the seperate chars? I love doing the missions in Caldari space in the Raven, but I can't just throw away the PVP fun of my Vagabond.... This is bull**** plain and simple.... and you having no effing idea of how lame this game would be without alts. Several corps I have been in have been war dec'd by corps 5x or more their size... so i just go and do something else... you would take away the escape from constant POS warfare? I wanna know where whoever beat you got the stupid forest to beat you with is! Tobias Creed did tell you all that I am more offensive than he is... Now go do the dishes like your mom is screaming so you can come back to your basement and play more EVE online
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.10 12:46:00 - [83] Originally by: Shismo Edited by: Shismo on 10/01/2008 07:06:28 Yes! Remove me! Metagaming is evil. One character per account, one account per person. Enforce that last one with IP, credit card number, personal information, and ninjas. This would fix the game in so many ways. 0.0 would become a vast trade empire because nobody would be afraid of alt spies. Macro miners would be significantly hurt also, fixing the economy. And the forums would improve. Also, to the post above. Carriers where a bad idea, and the longer they wait to remove them the more people that will be hurt. How will the game be when 99% of the playerbase is in a carrier, and the last 1% in a titan? (they all use alts to set up cynos). It would be boring and suck. Capital ships where a mistake. Just refund the points, let people select which skills they would rather have had trained up. A one time respec for all characters. At the same time they can remove learning skills. It would fix the game in so many ways, do it ccp. Or.... not. Again, you assert that alt "abuse" is the norm. I don't think I abuse my alts. I use several accounts so I can train SP faster and catch up a little with the people who've been playing since 2003. My 3rd character is pretty much done: she has lots of trade and corp skills that I needed, but I didn't want to spend ~8M SP on my main (Mal) on. So I'll probably transfer her to my main account once her current subscription period ends in a few weeks (trying to get her into covops first). I don't spy or scam with my alts; I just use them to broaden the variety of things that I can do in the game. I repeat: your problem is not with alts, but with the people playing them. Your argument is, in essence, that people shouldn't be allowed to do things you don't like. Now if you want to argue for a change whereby alts on account are visibly linked, I'd have less of a problem with that. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 12:49:00 - [84] Originally by: Karlemgne I agree. Alts are here to stay for economic reasons. That little editorial on "communism" though? Crap. Cheers, -Karl How is this crap? Care to elaborate? I know about communism more than you can imagine, because I've spent several years of my life in a country that was trying to build one. It looks very nice in books which you probably read, but it ended in rivers of blood and tears for millions of ppl. Next time post about something you really know.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.10 12:51:00 - [85] Originally by: Estephania Originally by: Karlemgne I agree. Alts are here to stay for economic reasons. That little editorial on "communism" though? Crap. Cheers, -Karl How is this crap? Care to elaborate? I know about communism more than you can imagine, because I've spent several years of my life in a country that was trying to build one. It looks very nice in books which you probably read, but it ended in rivers of blood and tears for millions of ppl. Next time post about something you really know. Oh dear. Look, there's something you should really have been told about the internet... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.10 12:58:00 - [86] Originally by: Estephania Alts and multi-accounts are here to stay. Yes, they give an unfair advantage to ppl with excessive RL income and they make the game many times dirtier and harder for those who play with just one account, but this is life. RL money buy you candy, even in the virtual world. Eve, where each player would have just one account is an utopia, just like communism - everything is looking great on paper but impossible to implement. When someone can get a degree of in-game advantage using his RL income, he will find a way to do so, that's human nature. Besides that, CCP is a private corporation, the more ppl will have more accounts, the more money will go to CCP - they'll never say no to that. "Excessive" real life income? Erm, An account in EvE costs about the same as buying 1 bottle of decent wine per month. Or 2 beers if you live in bloody London. I have 3 accounts and that costs less than my mobile. You could get a Sunday paper route and make enough to run 3-4 accounts, and that's from what the going rate was when I left school. I'm serious. If you can raise 1.2B every 3 months, which isn't that demanding, you can have 3 accounts FOR FREE. As hobbies go, EvE is about as cheap as it gets. So knock off with the "excessive income" tears. If EvE is an expensive hobby for you, you really need to get a better job than selling roses at traffic lights. Some people say that you spend a lot more on EvE than non-subscription games. Fair enough. But you get a hell of a lot more play time too. Even with 3 accounts, it costs me about 6p an hour or something daft like that. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Viilaa Caldari OH Corp	Posted - 2008.01.10 13:48:00 - [87] Originally by: Pwett If we ended alt, what would I press to talk on ventrilo? Can we just keep the right alt? I hardly ever use the left one! End the left alt ??? Are you crazy.. I always use the left alt to talk on Ventrilo. get rid of the right one... I actually think that you should be only able to post on the forums with your main. That would get rid of any forum-based alt problems. Viilaa
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.10 13:56:00 - [88] This brings back memories of hating a guy who had 9 accounts running. This is in the days just after Exodus when I joined, he had 8 Retreivers just sitting there, mining in hisec with me in my Bantam - sad days those were ~Nyron Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:13:00 - [89] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Estephania Alts and multi-accounts are here to stay. Yes, they give an unfair advantage to ppl with excessive RL income and they make the game many times dirtier and harder for those who play with just one account, but this is life. RL money buy you candy, even in the virtual world. Eve, where each player would have just one account is an utopia, just like communism - everything is looking great on paper but impossible to implement. When someone can get a degree of in-game advantage using his RL income, he will find a way to do so, that's human nature. Besides that, CCP is a private corporation, the more ppl will have more accounts, the more money will go to CCP - they'll never say no to that. "Excessive" real life income? Erm, An account in EvE costs about the same as buying 1 bottle of decent wine per month. Or 2 beers if you live in bloody London. I have 3 accounts and that costs less than my mobile. You could get a Sunday paper route and make enough to run 3-4 accounts, and that's from what the going rate was when I left school. I'm serious. If you can raise 1.2B every 3 months, which isn't that demanding, you can have 3 accounts FOR FREE. As hobbies go, EvE is about as cheap as it gets. So knock off with the "excessive income" tears. If EvE is an expensive hobby for you, you really need to get a better job than selling roses at traffic lights. Some people say that you spend a lot more on EvE than non-subscription games. Fair enough. But you get a hell of a lot more play time too. Even with 3 accounts, it costs me about 6p an hour or something daft like that. This kind of ignorance is amusing. Yes, 15$ is nothing more than 1/2 an hour of work for many ppl. Personally, I wouldn't bother with more than 1 account because of the lack of time, I'd rather sell GTCs as my time worth much more in RL than in Eve. But ppl like you should rally get off their high horse and travel around the world. No, I don't mean Disneyland or French Riviera. Visit different countries and see how ppl live there. Then it will probably be clear to you that not everyone was lucky to be born in the golden billion country and there are 4 billion of ppl who consider $15 not such a small amount. Of course poor ppl don't play Eve (when I say poor here I mean really poor ppl and not those who prefer to receive welfare and cry about their lousy existance because they didn't care to get any education or qualification in their life). In Eve we have ppl from all over the world, even from countries where $15 more per month can make a difference, so man, get off your high horse and look around you a little bit.
Hermosa Diosas The-Secret-Service Retribution.	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:17:00 - [90] Would be nice to see how many real active members they are, too many alliances/corps are falsely bloated with alt numbers
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:31:00 - [91] Originally by: Malcanis "Excessive" real life income? Erm, An account in EvE costs about the same as buying 1 bottle of decent wine per month. Or 2 beers if you live in bloody London. I have 3 accounts and that costs less than my mobile. You could get a Sunday paper route and make enough to run 3-4 accounts, and that's from what the going rate was when I left school. I'm serious. If you can raise 1.2B every 3 months, which isn't that demanding, you can have 3 accounts FOR FREE. As hobbies go, EvE is about as cheap as it gets. So knock off with the "excessive income" tears. If EvE is an expensive hobby for you, you really need to get a better job than selling roses at traffic lights. Some people say that you spend a lot more on EvE than non-subscription games. Fair enough. But you get a hell of a lot more play time too. Even with 3 accounts, it costs me about 6p an hour or something daft like that. Exactly. If you consider one or two extra accounts prohibitively expensive you shouldn't be wasting your money on an MMO in the first place. I have run three accounts for the better part of three years- it is the only way I could have explored all of the great potential CCP put into this game. It would take 5 or 6 years to train up one character to try it all. Plus, for those of you whining about unfair advantage with alts, I've LOST just as many ships as I've saved running multiple accounts. You get focused on one toon and come back to the other and ask "wtf am I in a station and where is my ship??" Running multiple accounts successfully is a lot of fun and requires an entirely different skillset. You people that have a problem with it- sorry, get over it. Alts are awesome, an integral part of the game, and they are here to stay. Quit whining, and seriously if Eve is taxing your income QUIT EVE or GET A BETTER JOB.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:37:00 - [92] Sorry, guys, I have my job and it's most likely better than yours. Tell to someone else how you "explore the endless possibilities of Eve" with your many accounts. It's simply your lot are not smart enough to finance your PvP fun with just one account, so that you need to explore missions grinding and many hours mining sessions. If I ever feel that I don't have enough ISK to enjoy Eve, I'd rather sell several GTCs to ppl with many accounts since many of them can't afford to pay for 3-4 accounts with their stellar jobs, lol.
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:46:00 - [93] Originally by: Estephania Sorry, guys, I have my job and it's most likely better than yours. Tell to someone else how you "explore the endless possibilities of Eve" with your many accounts. It's simply your lot are not smart enough to finance your PvP fun with just one account, so that you need to explore missions grinding and many hours mining sessions. If I ever feel that I don't have enough ISK to enjoy Eve, I'd rather sell several GTCs to ppl with many accounts since many of them can't afford to pay for 3-4 accounts with their stellar jobs, lol. Yep, I'm an idiot. I couldn't figure out how to fit leadership/ carriers/ T2 manufacturing/ invention/ siege dread/ exploration/ command ships/ trade/ missioning/ rorqual/ booster manufacturing/ interceptors/ interdictors/ freighters/ transports/ corp management/ exhumers/ reprocessing/ black ops/ covert ops/ research/ POS management/ moon mining/ etc into one character. Since you are smarter than me and have a better job than I do perhaps you can explain it to me?
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:55:00 - [94] Originally by: Enkindu Originally by: Estephania Sorry, guys, I have my job and it's most likely better than yours. Tell to someone else how you "explore the endless possibilities of Eve" with your many accounts. It's simply your lot are not smart enough to finance your PvP fun with just one account, so that you need to explore missions grinding and many hours mining sessions. If I ever feel that I don't have enough ISK to enjoy Eve, I'd rather sell several GTCs to ppl with many accounts since many of them can't afford to pay for 3-4 accounts with their stellar jobs, lol. Yep, I'm an idiot. I couldn't figure out how to fit leadership/ carriers/ T2 manufacturing/ invention/ siege dread/ exploration/ command ships/ trade/ missioning/ rorqual/ booster manufacturing/ interceptors/ interdictors/ freighters/ transports/ corp management/ exhumers/ reprocessing/ black ops/ covert ops/ research/ POS management/ moon mining/ etc into one character. Since you are smarter than me and have a better job than I do perhaps you can explain it to me? It will be a nasty surprise for you but I manage to do on one account: exploration, manufacturing, missioning, interceptors, interdictors, covert ops, research etc, etc. If you can't do it, then you should try harder, or at least stop making excuses that you need so many account just to explore Eve and not to buy nice expensive toys for your PvP char. You should also learn that when you make ad hominem remark, you are likely to get on back straight in your face. Wanna try some more?
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:59:00 - [95] Here's a nice case study for you btw. I'm selling all three of my accounts because I start my lousy job as a medical resident in a couple months and I won't have the time to play eve. You can look at these three toons and see clearly how they allowed me to explore different ships/races/skills during my limited time here. Aescelpius Enkindu Thaeus As for your idiotic rant about not being able to support my "pvp" with one character, my main pvp toon was also my main money maker and supported the other two.
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:03:00 - [96] Originally by: Estephania It will be a nasty surprise for you but I manage to do on one account: exploration, manufacturing, missioning, interceptors, interdictors, covert ops, research etc, etc. If you can't do it, then you should try harder, or at least stop making excuses that you need so many account just to explore Eve and not to buy nice expensive toys for your PvP char. You should also learn that when you make ad hominem remark, you are likely to get on back straight in your face. Wanna try some more? Yes please, I want to go some more. Please link your uber character so I can see the error of my ways.
Susung	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:04:00 - [97] Originally by: Estephania Sorry, guys, I have my job and it's most likely better than yours. Tell to someone else how you "explore the endless possibilities of Eve" with your many accounts. It's simply your lot are not smart enough to finance your PvP fun with just one account, so that you need to explore missions grinding and many hours mining sessions. If I ever feel that I don't have enough ISK to enjoy Eve, I'd rather sell several GTCs to ppl with many accounts since many of them can't afford to pay for 3-4 accounts with their stellar jobs, lol. If simplifying it helps you understand, by all means, but please don't post that narrowed viewpoint. I understand why multiple accounts may not be the best idea for you. As, has been stated multiple times before, in this thread, Did you read it? We can be of use to you in an infinite number of ways. I suggest you read the previous posts, please, you may find that we can help you compete in ways that have nothing to do with ISK grinding. Susung founder: Alt anti defamation league
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:16:00 - [98] It's amazing how ppl start an ad hominem debate and quickly get burned themselves. Now you had to tell what your RL job is (or will be), you are trying to justify yourself and state that your job is not that bad, while hadn't you call me a loser with a lousy job, you wouldn't come to this at all. After all it was the "pro alt" camp that brought the job argument here. I do not need to justify anything and bring my RL job here to prove my point. I have left the stage when I bragged about my per annum income behind me. I never did that on video game forums anyway and I'm not going to do it now. May be you use your alts to explore different aspects of Eve who knows. However it is clear that for the vast majority of alt users, the alts are utility alts which are there to make "the harsh and unforgiving world of Eve" a little bit more forgiving and warm.
Susung	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:18:00 - [99] It will be a nasty surprise for you but I manage to do on one account: exploration, manufacturing, missioning, interceptors, interdictors, covert ops, research etc, etc. If you can't do it, then you should try harder, or at least stop making excuses that you need so many account just to explore Eve and not to buy nice expensive toys for your PvP char. You should also learn that when you make ad hominem remark, you are likely to get on back straight in your face. Wanna try some more? I am sure you do an adequate job at several things and do not excel at anything. Go ahead you know you want to. Click the free trial link on the homepage new Worlds will open up to you. Oh and a fresh untrained toon can manufacture and research for you. shouldn't have wasted your time. You can get 2 for free. You could be flying command ships by now.
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:29:00 - [100] Originally by: Estephania It's amazing how ppl start an ad hominem debate and quickly get burned themselves. Now you had to tell what your RL job is (or will be), you are trying to justify yourself and state that your job is not that bad, while hadn't you call me a loser with a lousy job, you wouldn't come to this at all. After all it was the "pro alt" camp that brought the job argument here. I do not need to justify anything and bring my RL job here to prove my point. I have left the stage when I bragged about my per annum income behind me. I never did that on video game forums anyway and I'm not going to do it now. May be you use your alts to explore different aspects of Eve who knows. However it is clear that for the vast majority of alt users, the alts are utility alts which are there to make "the harsh and unforgiving world of Eve" a little bit more forgiving and warm. 1)All I said originally was that anyone who finds the cost of additional eve accounts prohibitive probably shouldn't be wasting money on the game in the first place. You were the one that percieved this as a personal attack and responded by announcing that you probably had a better job than everyone else. 2)I bring up my forthcoming job in the hopes that people will understand why I'm leaving the game. Come to think of it I probably won't be able to afford it timewise OR financially.. residents get paid squat. 3)If you are making the argument that you can reasonably "do it all" with one character, where is a link to your character? It is easy to do here :ineve 4)You are entitled to your own opinions of course, but try to make sense/support your claims. I've been listening to people whine about alts on this forum for years and I'm tired of all the silliness.
Kayna Eelai Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:51:00 - [101] Originally by: Cpt Branko Outright lie. 1) Capital ships. Yes, your corp will pop cynos whenever you need somewhere and if you leave corp you can reprocess it or have to join a new one. Riiiight. You need a cyno alt. To say otherwise is to be silly, to be realistic. could you please enlighten me how you log in 2 chars from the same account AT SAME TIME for a cyno? ppl. really needs to L2READ before they press the reply button. it has been clarified already that we're talking about ALTS not secondary accounts. my 2c? either buff alts by being able to train skills (even if slowed down) on them at same time as your main, or just delete the "feature" as it's pointless anyways. with the skill training limitation i wonder why we can only make 2 anyways, any other MMO lets you create docens. the whole alt feature is so full of crap... get rid off it already. and again, coz i know ppl. just won't get it with 1 time being said: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALTS, NOT SECONDARY ACCOUNTS fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:10:00 - [102] I don't claim my job to be better than everybody else, and certainly I'm not going to prove anything using that "argument". As you're tired of ppl who whine about alts, I'm tired of ppl who value success in Eve as success in RL. Like "OMG you don't have another account, that's because you're flipping burgers IRL, go get a job". Eve is just a game, many ppl here need to write it 100 times in their diary. Like that guy who said that my char is not excelling in anything and I could have been flying Command Ships if I had alts. I probably could, but SO WHAT? My toon has probably 2-3 mill sp's less in certain fields because I've trained exploration or manufacturing skills at that time, SO WHAT? OMG, I'm so stupid, that means that I'm a RL loser and I should stop selling roses on the street, oh noes. Grow up, ppl it's just a game after all, and if I don't have more than one toon is most likely because I don't care enough to get it; and if my toon is not so efficient then so what? Are we talking about national security here? Or US budget for the next fiscal year? No, we are talking about internet spaceships game ffs.
Chi'an Peimei Caldari Draconian Toymaker Corp	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:13:00 - [103] Originally by: Estephania This kind of ignorance is amusing. Yes, 15$ is nothing more than 1/2 an hour of work for many ppl. Personally, I wouldn't bother with more than 1 account because of the lack of time, I'd rather sell GTCs as my time worth much more in RL than in Eve. But ppl like you should rally get off their high horse and travel around the world. No, I don't mean Disneyland or French Riviera. Visit different countries and see how ppl live there. Then it will probably be clear to you that not everyone was lucky to be born in the golden billion country and there are 4 billion of ppl who consider $15 not such a small amount. Of course poor ppl don't play Eve (when I say poor here I mean really poor ppl and not those who prefer to receive welfare and cry about their lousy existance because they didn't care to get any education or qualification in their life). In Eve we have ppl from all over the world, even from countries where $15 more per month can make a difference, so man, get off your high horse and look around you a little bit. Please do not social commentary you stuck up ***. Some people on welfare genuinely have no choice. I am on Social Security Disablity due to health reasons... I had insurance, and afterwards, I had State insurance... now I have Federal Insurance.... My issues would never have left me permanently out of work if there was better regulations on HMO's, and if state insurance was worth a damn. Due to the insurance not covering a brace, and due to the state not covering the operation that became nessisary because the HMO would not cover a $1500 set of braces, my legs, back, and body in general are now totally ed up. Live on the lower end of the spectrum for 1 month before you open your goddamn mouth again. STFU and ** off. Tobias Creed did tell you all that I am more offensive than he is... Now go do the dishes like your mom is screaming so you can come back to your basement and play more EVE online
Louisa Ferncliff	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:15:00 - [104] Just for clarification, from my point of view an "alt" refers to a "secondary account." Those other two toons available on your account are basically useless for anything except stuff like research, manufacturing, etc. and that requires taking huge amounts of training time for your "main." They also don't provide any tactical advantage since they can't be logged in with your other characters. I guess some people use them as spies.. I dunno. I've never put even a small amount of training time into those other two slots on my accounts.
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:22:00 - [105] Originally by: Estephania Sorry, guys, I have my job and it's most likely better than yours. Originally by: Estephania I don't claim my job to be better than everybody else Enough said. You gonna link this super alt-free character so we can all benefit from your experience?
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:32:00 - [106] Originally by: Enkindu Originally by: Estephania Sorry, guys, I have my job and it's most likely better than yours. Originally by: Estephania I don't claim my job to be better than everybody else Enough said. You gonna link this super alt-free character so we can all benefit from your experience? I've said "most likely" in the first sentence and "everybody else" in the second. You still couldn't catch me, although you were close. The toon is not that amazing. It is possible to fly what I fly (which is heavily specced in one race and just short of command ships) and have good exploration, acceptable manufacturing and good science skills with 30 mill sp char. There's no magic in that. It took some time to train that and with alts I could have been better, but again so what? I play the game the way I play and if I feel that I desperately need a capital ship pilot (although I despise POS warfare and everything connected with it) I will simply buy cap ship toon and replace one of my 2 spare n00b alts with it. Problem solved.
Enkindu Gallente Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:53:00 - [107] Originally by: Estephania It's amazing how ppl start an ad hominem debate and quickly get burned themselves. Read the thread again and look up "ad hominem." I find it quite funny that you described precisely what happened to you in this thread. Originally by: Estephania As you're tired of ppl who whine about alts, I'm tired of ppl who value success in Eve as success in RL. Like "OMG you don't have another account, that's because you're flipping burgers IRL, go get a job". Eve is just a game, many ppl here need to write it 100 times in their diary. Like that guy who said that my char is not excelling in anything and I could have been flying Command Ships if I had alts. I probably could, but SO WHAT? My toon has probably 2-3 mill sp's less in certain fields because I've trained exploration or manufacturing skills at that time, SO WHAT? OMG, I'm so stupid, that means that I'm a RL loser and I should stop selling roses on the street, oh noes. Grow up, ppl it's just a game after all, and if I don't have more than one toon is most likely because I don't care enough to get it; and if my toon is not so efficient then so what? Are we talking about national security here? Or US budget for the next fiscal year? No, we are talking about internet spaceships game ffs. You are missing the point entirely. People said that alts give an unfair advantage to those who can afford them. I said that if you can't afford a couple eve accounts, you probably shouldn't be playing in the first place and I stand by this. You were the one that started this debate by saying that the only reason people use alts is because they were too stupid to "make it" with one character. We've given you lots of evidence to the contrary in this thread. I'm indulging your arguments here because, quite frankly, it's fun... but I'm starting to feel bad. There is someone here that's taking this a bit too seriously, and it's not me.... Go play eve however you want and have fun. Hell, I'm leaving anyway.
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:56:00 - [108] alts in eve should go for the good of the game. they won't let you change your char name to ensure your reputation stays with you for life. then they allow you to create alts and trash them to avoid this. makes no sense to me. alts just allow you to do things like train a pair of alts for generating r and d points or to open up more research/production slots. this is just messing with the game mechanics and i lean toward it being something of an exploit.
BlackSail	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:59:00 - [109] Originally by: Wu Jiun Whats with people who already have 2 chars on 1 account? I have 2 chars on one of my accounts one of which has 9m sp and the other has 6. Both have skill plans for the future! I am sure many people are in this situation and actually like to be able to play in 2 different corps or living 2 lifes one as an industrialist and another one as low-life scum maybe? If everyone did this and kept their alts lives seperate there wouldnt be a problem. The problem is when people use alts to hurt other players or to avoid interation with other players. Which isnt so bad by itself, but when too many people do that it ruins the economy and limits the takes away from the dynamic game play.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:08:00 - [110] It is time to end whines. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
BlackSail	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:20:00 - [111] Originally by: Chi'an Peimei What, do they have a stupid idea on how to wreck games school? WTF man? First, there was the remove local thread... now this. Really, I would say there must be something in the water, but this is a world wide game. Now I'm worried about catching the stupids. Ignorant game ideas based on the bad reaction on a very minority of the player base can and has killed games in the past. I ENJOY PLAYING ON MY ALTS. I don't spy with my alts, I don't scam... on one account I have a Raven pilot and a HAC pilot. What, I should lose the months of training time and stop being able to enjoy playing the seperate chars? I love doing the missions in Caldari space in the Raven, but I can't just throw away the PVP fun of my Vagabond.... This is bull**** plain and simple.... and you having no effing idea of how lame this game would be without alts. Several corps I have been in have been war dec'd by corps 5x or more their size... so i just go and do something else... you would take away the escape from constant POS warfare? I wanna know where whoever beat you got the stupid forest to beat you with is! If you are wardec'd you make an alliance, gather your corp and make a defense perimeter in a system, hire a merc corp, or leave the corp. This is a PVP game. However, playing second lagitimate characters isnt the problem. Using a second character to infiltrate an opposing corp to steal everything from their corp hangar or kill the corp members without Concord coming after you would be the problem that we are talking about. Imagine if someone did that to you. Then they transfer all your corps mods and other stolen loot to their main and delete the alt and start a new one. Then they wait a few weeks to skill up a new "clean" alt and restart the process. This happens all the time.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:37:00 - [112] Who cares about alts if u have another account anyways, i just use em to scout prices in Jita CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:53:00 - [113] Having alt accounts/characters greatly encriches my playing experience, both by allowing me to explore and experience more aspects of the game, and by allowing me to be busy on two accounts at once, thus eliminating the need to 'sit around and wait' that comprises much of EVE. My own alts have increased my happiness more than others alts have decreased it. The main problem with alts is on the forums. You can never block people from having more than one account, and thus access to alts, so it seems silly to try to prevent them from having alts on the same account (which are by definition less powerful)
Grim Vandal Caldari Burn Proof	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:00:00 - [114] EVE fails at alts. Simple as that. If you dont like it leave. Dont ask for things that will never change cuz they wont. Greetings Grim
Kurtis Lowe	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:41:00 - [115] wow that's the new dumbest thing i've heard on the eveO forums. Congrats and take yer a** back to WoW
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:46:00 - [116] THIS IS NOW AN IMAGE THREAD Image - DesuSigs
Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:50:00 - [117] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. epic...posted by an alt...i dont know how this will be outdone.
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:50:00 - [118] You can't get rid of alts overnight If everyone lost their manufacturing alts, there'd be economic meltdown What is needed are ways to make alts less attractive / more attractive alternatives rather than arbitrary deletion or punishing people who use them E.g. More manufacturing slots per player or a different non-skills based system for manufacturing, so that only a mug would be silly enough to buy a whole other account for manufacturing purposes Khaldari khanidpublic: RP channel for Kingdom loyalists Recruiting
Sky KiorSun Minmatar Kinetic Vector Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:53:00 - [119] Originally by: Spoon Thumb What is needed are ways to make alts less attractive / more attractive alternatives rather than arbitrary deletion or punishing people who use them Yes i totally agree, make alts less attractive.....Cos I want to be the prettiest 'Typical male. Satisfy yourself first.'
Eternal Hatred Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.01.10 20:00:00 - [120] Originally by: Crumplecorn THIS IS NOW AN IMAGE THREAD Image You sir, you have just won eve-o for this week. Gz for your success! _________________ I'm a whorum warrior alt and current number of people in Jita is 977856 It's great being an Amarr
Calebes Gallente Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 20:04:00 - [121] Originally by: BlackSail Furthermore, CCP does alot to encourage player interaction. They are not trying to encourage alt use, though they accept it now. Yeah, right. May I laugh at your ignorant face? -- Calebes, against alts since birth. Still waiting for that 'real life simulation' MMO where resources of the world are limited, death is permanent, and there's no magical GM interaction or organized events. No NPCs. Only people, and their characters. "True roleplaying" MMO, where art thou?
Almethea Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.10 20:08:00 - [122] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. Nice, you take the first rank of my "list of stupid idea". One Isk Baby
Vaari Amarr Imperial Pharmacy	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:04:00 - [123] Over year i have been constantly targettet by alt. This time loss was acceptable level, but last time was simply devastating. I lost almost everything and my corp lost every 0.0 asset we had. No other ancient ammarr speaking corporation has this kind of alt problem than we have. Using alts as a corp thieves is...dirty and heretical act. Against it has almost impossible to defend since tehre is no certain ways to see if someone is alt or not. This beginning. This birth of life. This dawn of greatness. I can not fail, for I have the Emperor to lead me and destiny to follow. undefined
Lucy Light	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:31:00 - [124] lol so how do we stop people from creating alts on multiple accounts? I like to eat one nutella sandwich for breakfast
Rigo Kajjar Rigo Reloaded	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:45:00 - [125] Originally by: Vaari I think it is time to close the ability to create alternative characters. They are constantly pain and are used to haras others. I see them nothing but nuisance. This game would be much better without them. I demand that next patch will eliminate all existing alts and prevent their creation. Give me 10% faster skill training if I don't have any alts, and we might have a deal.
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:48:00 - [126] Edited by: Karlemgne on 10/01/2008 21:50:54 Originally by: Estephania How is this crap? Care to elaborate? I know about communism more than you can imagine, because I've spent several years of my life in a country that was trying to build one. It looks very nice in books which you probably read, but it ended in rivers of blood and tears for millions of ppl. Next time post about something you really know. sigh I don't normally get involved in discussions relating to my political beliefs, or my academic work on these forums. I do this, because it takes quite a bit of energy to discuss complex issues with people who are ignorant (not in a bad way) about much of what goes on in the world. I do feel slightly compelled to reply to you though. You claim to have spent much of your life living in a communist state (or rather an authoritarian socialist state) and use this to claim some sort of authoritative position as far as this discussion goes. Firstly, I want you to know that I don't believe you. In my experience (having done a bit of research on this topic) most people who lived much of their adult lives under authoritarian socialist rule don't have this opinion. Often in these cases (I just wrote a paper about this) there is a serious amount of post-soviet nostalgia, which can be seen both politically and culturally. Usually people who express the opinion you just did fall into one of these categories: 1. People who were born in a communist country, where the communist system collapsed in their early childhood. Usually when they were 1 to 4 years old (to young to really remember what "communism" was like.) 2. People who are exiles, or the children of exiles who left the "communist" world sometime during the last 25 to 50 years. 3. People who claim to be something they are not. These people are often, but not always, Americans who try to prove their point by claiming to be a member of an oppressed group of people. Which do I think you are? I wouldn't hazard a guess, and it is still possible you are what you say you are. Though, the particular language you use e.g. "great on paper" is similar to what I was taught in American high schools, and is not something I usually hear out of the mouths (or finger tips) of people who actually lived through the experience of authoritarian communism. Second I would suggest to you that authoritarian socialism has really nothing to do with Marxism and Marx. In most of the cases (Cuba I think is different) "communism" became sometime after the 1920's a simple justification of authoritarian rule. Authoritarian socialism is not something that can be simply blamed on Marxism, just as ****** and the NDSAP can't simply be blamed on capitalism. Third, even granting this, do you really want to compare body counts? How many people has capitalism killed over the last 200 years. Just counting wars, colonial occupation, etc we are talking millions. And it isn't as if "capitalist" countries are all human rights respecting democracies. We can look to Chile, El Salvador, the Contras etc etc just in the Western hemisphere in the last 40 years. If we expand that to include, again, colonial occupations and capitalist adventures in places like Vietnam the body count multiplies. And then if you count wars like World War II and the first World War the number begins to get even larger. We could also count all of the people who die every year of curable diseases, but can't afford medicine. We could count the people who die of starvation in a world that produces enough food to give every man, woman, and child 35 pounds of foodstuffs a day. I actually think a better use of the phrase "looks good on paper" is capitalism, and NOT authoritarian socialism. I could go on and on about this topic, but I won't because it expends far too much energy, and I could write hundreds of pages. What I presented here though, I think is enough to suggest that the subject of authoritarian socialism is NOT so easily described by the phrase "great on paper."
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:56:00 - [127] Originally by: Vaari Over year i have been constantly targettet by alt. This time loss was acceptable level, but last time was simply devastating. I lost almost everything and my corp lost every 0.0 asset we had. No other ancient ammarr speaking corporation has this kind of alt problem than we have. Using alts as a corp thieves is...dirty and heretical act. Against it has almost impossible to defend since tehre is no certain ways to see if someone is alt or not. You will never be 100% safe from this, friend, EVEN if alts were banned (which they won't be). The best you can do is lock down your BPOs, only give directors and highly trusted people access to sensitive corp hangars. In fact, in my industrial corp the ONLY people who have access to the corp hangars are the three guys that founded the corp. It is possible to run a corp without allowing anyone but your top three people access to corp hangars. -Karlemgne
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:07:00 - [128] Originally by: Estephania Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Estephania Alts and multi-accounts are here to stay. Yes, they give an unfair advantage to ppl with excessive RL income and they make the game many times dirtier and harder for those who play with just one account, but this is life. RL money buy you candy, even in the virtual world. Eve, where each player would have just one account is an utopia, just like communism - everything is looking great on paper but impossible to implement. When someone can get a degree of in-game advantage using his RL income, he will find a way to do so, that's human nature. Besides that, CCP is a private corporation, the more ppl will have more accounts, the more money will go to CCP - they'll never say no to that. "Excessive" real life income? Erm, An account in EvE costs about the same as buying 1 bottle of decent wine per month. Or 2 beers if you live in bloody London. I have 3 accounts and that costs less than my mobile. You could get a Sunday paper route and make enough to run 3-4 accounts, and that's from what the going rate was when I left school. I'm serious. If you can raise 1.2B every 3 months, which isn't that demanding, you can have 3 accounts FOR FREE. As hobbies go, EvE is about as cheap as it gets. So knock off with the "excessive income" tears. If EvE is an expensive hobby for you, you really need to get a better job than selling roses at traffic lights. Some people say that you spend a lot more on EvE than non-subscription games. Fair enough. But you get a hell of a lot more play time too. Even with 3 accounts, it costs me about 6p an hour or something daft like that. This kind of ignorance is amusing. Yes, 15$ is nothing more than 1/2 an hour of work for many ppl. Personally, I wouldn't bother with more than 1 account because of the lack of time, I'd rather sell GTCs as my time worth much more in RL than in Eve. But ppl like you should rally get off their high horse and travel around the world. No, I don't mean Disneyland or French Riviera. Visit different countries and see how ppl live there. Then it will probably be clear to you that not everyone was lucky to be born in the golden billion country and there are 4 billion of ppl who consider $15 not such a small amount. Of course poor ppl don't play Eve (when I say poor here I mean really poor ppl and not those who prefer to receive welfare and cry about their lousy existance because they didn't care to get any education or qualification in their life). In Eve we have ppl from all over the world, even from countries where $15 more per month can make a difference, so man, get off your high horse and look around you a little bit. Don't be silly. If 15 euros is a lot of money to you, then you shouldn't be playing EvE. It's a game. It's a luxury leisure activity. You yourself shot down your whole post with "Of course poor ppl don't play Eve". You need a PC worth hundreds of euros, an internet connection, electricity, free time and somewhere to live to play EvE. In that economic context, it's a very very cheap hobby indeed. Unemployed? Fine, then you have 23 hours a day to make ISK, and within a month, or at most two, you can easily play for free. A week's solid missioning = enough ISK to run 3 accounts for 3 months - joy for the poor proles. So kindly take your holier-than-thou attitude and place it where charity collection boxes are rarely found. You don't know a thing about me, and I'm pretty sure that what you think you do know is largely wrong. HINT: I do not have a BMW. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Orgos Khenn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:07:00 - [129] Originally by: Maasus Maxx No This.
Rhaegor Stormborn Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:12:00 - [130] /signed Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - The Volition Cult
Khatred Fluffy Mungoose Guinea Pigs	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:16:00 - [131] Without alts, how will half the people on this forum post?
Skaz Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:33:00 - [132] Originally by: Crumplecorn Define Alt. Second See as I look at it I have a lot of mains....industrial, combat, hauler etc. - - PINK PINK PINK PINK
BlackSail	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:30:00 - [133] Originally by: Calebes Originally by: BlackSail Furthermore, CCP does alot to encourage player interaction. They are not trying to encourage alt use, though they accept it now. Yeah, right. May I laugh at your ignorant face? -- Calebes, against alts since birth. Still waiting for that 'real life simulation' MMO where resources of the world are limited, death is permanent, and there's no magical GM interaction or organized events. No NPCs. Only people, and their characters. "True roleplaying" MMO, where art thou? I will admit it, I overlooked the "power of two" promotion, but that is the first time CCP promoted buying multiple accounts. As I said before, I realize there isnt anything CCP can do to fairly eliminate alts, nor would they want to for financial reasons, but the original intent was to make a "real" MMO where players had the freedom to make any kind of character they wanted to make and live the experience. They ORIGINALLY didnt expect the use of alts on a massive scale because MMO's were still picking up in mainstream, and no other company had done anything like this game world (and still hasnt). The truth is that while there alot of people that like the ingame experience and play the game as a persona, there are alot more people that play the game as they would monopoly. Some players play to be a part of EVE, and some players play to beat the system and "win." Cant really say which is right or wrong, but when beating the system involves alts to rob/swindle/kill other players its kind of like using multiple tokens in monopoly to beat out the oponent just using one token, and doesnt even know he is in a competition. I guess my arguement is a moral one, but I think its important for people to recognize the different perceptions of the game.
Laila Eldgorn	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:42:00 - [134] Posting in epic vaari thread. With an alt of course. I don't think there's any justification for removal of alts. However I can see the point for introducing player account names so everyone can see them. Also I find it odd I cannot use same account as same person to play my other account. So what I mean is. That it would be better idea to make every single person have only one out-of-game personal id/alias/whatever. After all we're not those spaceships or characters in-game.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:43:00 - [135] Originally by: Malcanis Don't be silly. If 15 euros is a lot of money to you, then you shouldn't be playing EvE. It's a game. It's a luxury leisure activity. You yourself shot down your whole post with "Of course poor ppl don't play Eve". You need a PC worth hundreds of euros, an internet connection, electricity, free time and somewhere to live to play EvE. In that economic context, it's a very very cheap hobby indeed. Unemployed? Fine, then you have 23 hours a day to make ISK, and within a month, or at most two, you can easily play for free. A week's solid missioning = enough ISK to run 3 accounts for 3 months - joy for the poor proles. So kindly take your holier-than-thou attitude and place it where charity collection boxes are rarely found. You don't know a thing about me, and I'm pretty sure that what you think you do know is largely wrong. HINT: I do not have a BMW. For many people, paying 15 euros per month extra (which is really little, although is about roughly 2.5% of the average wage here), is no real issue. It's a matter of principle though; I think paying 30 eur/month for a game is a bit much personally. Also, I happen to personally -dislike- alts / dual accounting; I like playing with one character and doing everything with one character. Fact is though, for some activities you need same-account alts or even dual acounts. Blaming it on the people who do it is stupid: if game mechanics make alts necessary, people will use alts. Rifters!
Laila Eldgorn	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:51:00 - [136] Edited by: Laila Eldgorn on 11/01/2008 00:51:31 Originally by: Cpt Branko Blaming it on the people who do it is stupid: if game mechanics make alts necessary, people will use alts. Oh and this. I think it would be cool if you would not need alt for so-many-things-around.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.11 01:09:00 - [137] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Malcanis Don't be silly. If 15 euros is a lot of money to you, then you shouldn't be playing EvE. It's a game. It's a luxury leisure activity. You yourself shot down your whole post with "Of course poor ppl don't play Eve". You need a PC worth hundreds of euros, an internet connection, electricity, free time and somewhere to live to play EvE. In that economic context, it's a very very cheap hobby indeed. Unemployed? Fine, then you have 23 hours a day to make ISK, and within a month, or at most two, you can easily play for free. A week's solid missioning = enough ISK to run 3 accounts for 3 months - joy for the poor proles. So kindly take your holier-than-thou attitude and place it where charity collection boxes are rarely found. You don't know a thing about me, and I'm pretty sure that what you think you do know is largely wrong. HINT: I do not have a BMW. For many people, paying 15 euros per month extra (which is really little, although is about roughly 2.5% of the average wage here), is no real issue. It's a matter of principle though; I think paying 30 eur/month for a game is a bit much personally. Also, I happen to personally -dislike- alts / dual accounting; I like playing with one character and doing everything with one character. Fact is though, for some activities you need same-account alts or even dual acounts. Blaming it on the people who do it is stupid: if game mechanics make alts necessary, people will use alts. The economics of EvE are a bit different to that of buying some game you complete in 20-40 hours. I repeatedly used the word "hobby" deliberately. Compared to, say, renting a 5-a-side football pitch a few times a week or having a gym membership, EvE is good value. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.11 17:27:00 - [138] are we banning people with similar ips too? what if i use my neighbors internet for my second account? Trashed sig, Shark was here

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