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Is the Raven still the Undisputed King of Missioning?

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Mazakura Republic University	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:19:00 - [1] Topic says it all. Even with the torp changes, aren't most people just changing over to cruise missles? I'm about to start up a pure mission runner. Is the raven still the undisputed king of missioning? (Yes, Level 3-5). Are there any ships that can compare to the speed and npc killing power of a raven spewing out loads and loads of cruise missles? To make a discussion out of this, I hear the typhoon is now a great ship but still doesn't compare to the good old proven raven.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:22:00 - [2] Pretty much, yes. The gap between raven and the alternatives has narrowed, which is good. But the Raven is still pretty hard to beat. (Golem and CNR may come out a little ahead, but then so too might the other marauders). -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
ezraniel Caldari An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:25:00 - [3] i don't have experience with other race's mission runners but i personally don't find cruise that big a difference vs torps. besides the damage part i actually like cruise's more since i can pick off targets right away instead of needing to get close to them. so... its down to personaly preference if you go cruise or torps i guess. i like being able to shoot right away, others like the pure destruction torps put forth... pure choice. now compared to other ships... i must say a wel fitted/trained Raven can be VERY deadly to say the least, but i've also seen minmatar ships almost instagib cruiser spawns and take down BS spawns with very great ease. the only ships i see struggling a bit are minmatar because they either need to get pretty close like torp ravens to be effective or they need to keep range to sniper in a mega or alike...
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:27:00 - [4] The Raven family (including Golem, CNR) will always be kings of mission grinding. What other ship has long range weapons which never miss and need zero cap, has a cap-efficient tank, and can fit damage mods without gimping said tank? -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Acoco Osiris Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:45:00 - [5] The Raven hasn't been the king of mission-running for a long time. The Raven Navy Issue has held that title. The Golem is a bit iffy, but is in good competition with the CNR. And yes, I know I'm being silly, but that's what I do best. ------------------- I nerfed my own sig To amuse you, here is my Retriever ever since its first Trinity deployment. RIP. * * * * ** * * * ** * * * * * *** *
Mining Magnate	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:51:00 - [6] Raven is still up there, as Acoco says CNR is obviously better/best (Some will always dispute which ship is best bc of personal preference). Golem has potential, but DPS could potentially suffer to defenders, as each missile knocked out is the equivalent of 2 from the Raven.
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:54:00 - [7] Originally by: Acoco Osiris The Raven hasn't been the king of mission-running for a long time. The Raven Navy Issue has held that title. The Golem is a bit iffy, but is in good competition with the CNR. And yes, I know I'm being silly, but that's what I do best. At the end of the day they're still all Ravens when you think about it. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Jei'son Bladesmith The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:54:00 - [8] I refuse to fly Ravens. Navy Mega or Machariel ftw. ☼☼☼ 12 Seconds ☼☼☼
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:01:00 - [9] Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:04:38 No, Typhoon or Dominix are best, put t2 sentries on them, and guns, plus a better tank, they win. Originally by: Arthur Frayn The Raven family (including Golem, CNR) will always be kings of mission grinding. What other ship has long range weapons which never miss and need zero cap, has a cap-efficient tank, and can fit damage mods without gimping said tank? Dominix and Typhoon both use 0 cap for guns, tank better, output more dps, never have to reload the sentry drones, constant output of dps, Typhoon and Dominix take the win. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Hans Angry Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:02:11 No, Typhoon or Dominix are best, put t2 sentries on them, and guns, plus a better tank, they win. Sentries can die from aggro. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:07:00 - [11] Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:08:19 Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Hans Angry Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:02:11 No, Typhoon or Dominix are best, put t2 sentries on them, and guns, plus a better tank, they win. Sentries can die from aggro. launch them after the rats have you hard locked... come on, you must know rats dont switch tagets forgot to say too, the drones wont get jammed Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:08:00 - [12] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 10/01/2008 23:08:39 Originally by: Hans Angry Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:04:38 No, Typhoon or Dominix are best, put t2 sentries on them, and guns, plus a better tank, they win. Originally by: Arthur Frayn The Raven family (including Golem, CNR) will always be kings of mission grinding. What other ship has long range weapons which never miss and need zero cap, has a cap-efficient tank, and can fit damage mods without gimping said tank? Dominix and Typhoon both use 0 cap for guns, tank better, output more dps, never have to reload the sentry drones, constant output of dps, Typhoon and Dominix take the win. Typhoon's guns can miss, their split weapons system requires two types of damage mods, and poor grid/cpu for fitting. Phoon also has split weapon ranges making it a poor choice for full dps at long range, drones can be killed easily. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:10:00 - [13] Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:10:59 Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 10/01/2008 23:08:39 Originally by: Hans Angry Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:04:38 No, Typhoon or Dominix are best, put t2 sentries on them, and guns, plus a better tank, they win. Originally by: Arthur Frayn The Raven family (including Golem, CNR) will always be kings of mission grinding. What other ship has long range weapons which never miss and need zero cap, has a cap-efficient tank, and can fit damage mods without gimping said tank? Dominix and Typhoon both use 0 cap for guns, tank better, output more dps, never have to reload the sentry drones, constant output of dps, Typhoon and Dominix take the win. Typhoon's guns can miss, their split weapons system requires two types of damage mods, and poor grid/cpu for fitting. Phoon also has split weapon ranges making it a poor choice for full dps at long range, drones can be killed easily. yes they can miss, but 4 cruises should be what you use on the phoon, and 4 250mm II's or 4 720mm II's, both work, 250's have more dps, and there is plenty of room to fit a double rep tank and damage mods, know what your talking about before you say anything, also only use BCU's the cruises will do more dps Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:10:00 - [14] Even with sentry drone augmentors, your DPS is still going to have trouble beating a properly fit CNR - however I agree that it stands the best chance of actually succeeding in dethroning the Raven. This is one of the comparisons I plan on making (I'm working on a comparison of all the popular mission ships with semi-realistic fits). So far, the Mach is really good, the sentry domi is really good, and the CNR/Golem is really good. I've been involved in a little war up in my neighborhood of Syndicate, so I haven't had as much time as I might have liked. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Liang Nuren Even with sentry drone augmentors, your DPS is still going to have trouble beating a properly fit CNR - however I agree that it stands the best chance of actually succeeding in dethroning the Raven. This is one of the comparisons I plan on making (I'm working on a comparison of all the popular mission ships with semi-realistic fits). So far, the Mach is really good, the sentry domi is really good, and the CNR/Golem is really good. I've been involved in a little war up in my neighborhood of Syndicate, so I haven't had as much time as I might have liked. -Liang i wont lie, the cnr can do well for itself, but the typhoon my out stat it a little, if you use t2 sentry's or ogres, phoon is cheaper, so is the domi, but yeah CNR is still a great ship for missions, but if you need a cheap easy way to start, both the domi and phoon are good, also if your not spec'ed caldari Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Hans Angry Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:04:38 No, Typhoon or Dominix are best, put t2 sentries on them, and guns, plus a better tank, they win. Originally by: Arthur Frayn The Raven family (including Golem, CNR) will always be kings of mission grinding. What other ship has long range weapons which never miss and need zero cap, has a cap-efficient tank, and can fit damage mods without gimping said tank? Dominix and Typhoon both use 0 cap for guns, tank better, output more dps, never have to reload the sentry drones, constant output of dps, Typhoon and Dominix take the win. Typhoon simply sucks for L4s, unbonused sentries and spilt weapons means it has pants for dps. Dominix can have decent dps with sentries, but then it doesn't have enough tank. If you tank it up, the damage sucks. Basically both ships are losers. Dominix still has many fans though, probably since it is okay for doing missions slow but safe, or completely AFK. The only thing that is on par with or even beats the Raven family is the laser boats that everyone whines so much about. Abaddon(or Paladin if you feel you are too rich) and Nightmare are hands down the best mission ships if you stick to racially suited enemies (i.e. run missions for Amarr). You just have to be interactive, if you want to semi-AFK they are probably worse than the missile ships too. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:19:00 - [17] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 10/01/2008 23:20:49 Originally by: Hans Angry yes they can miss, but 4 cruises should be what you use on the phoon, and 4 250mm II's or 4 720mm II's, both work, 250's have more dps, and there is plenty of room to fit a double rep tank and damage mods, know what your talking about before you say anything, also only use BCU's the cruises will do more dps I do know what I'm talking about. You claiming that I don't is a conceit, rather than knowledge. You could fit autocannons for more dps, but only up close. You could fit artillery but only for long range. You have to sacrifice half your dps on a target depending on what range you're shooting from. Sure you can fit a dual rep tank in the lows and have enough room for perhaps a gyrostab and a BCU... but with a Raven, you can fit four BCU's and retain a similar tank if not better. Also, your missiles hit at any range. Did I forget to mention you only need to keep one ammo type in your cargo hold? The real dealbreaker though is that anyone with 5 million skillpoints can solo level 4's in a Raven. The Phoon is a decent ship, I'll admit. But it's one of the most skill-intensive ships out there. Raven is far more efficient, and efficiency is the only thing that counts when grinding missions. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:39:00 - [18] Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:42:13 http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rattingtyphooneo1.jpg - typhoon http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rattingdominixlp1.jpg - dominix http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rattingravenyq2.jpg - raven, might not be the best fit, but seems pretty average now point out where the raven does more dps, navy raven though would do better then the phoon, would be competing with the domi Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Hitme Harder HERRO KITTY	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:40:00 - [19] Paladin for everything but angels.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:54:00 - [20] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 10/01/2008 23:56:59 I like how you used Arby cruises on the Raven and Cruise II's on the Phoon. Epic Win. -Liang Ed: Removed a bit o smack. -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:58:00 - [21] Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:59:12 Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 10/01/2008 23:56:59 I like how you used Arby cruises on the Raven and Cruise II's on the Phoon. Epic Win. -Liang Ed: Removed a bit o smack. they didnt fit with the setup, post up a better setup, im not good with the raven i think 650 dps with t2 though... if you remove 1 bcu and use t2 though, it does less dps then the 3 bcu and 6 arbies Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:02:00 - [22] Fit a T1 or DG shield booster or use a CPU implant. Also, unless you're going for a perma run setup, you'll be more interested in 'burst' tanking - so you'll want to use PDUs or (CPRs + Amps). -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:07:00 - [23] http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rattingravenxq8.jpg Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Helen Eve Innovative Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Leandro Salazar The only thing that is on par with or even beats the Raven family is the laser boats that everyone whines so much about. Abaddon(or Paladin if you feel you are too rich) and Nightmare are hands down the best mission ships if you stick to racially suited enemies (i.e. run missions for Amarr). You just have to be interactive, if you want to semi-AFK they are probably worse than the missile ships too. This. CNR/Golem/Raven suck compared to the awesomeness of the Nightmare if you want to afk it get a Drake. If you want something that can clear a lvl 4 faster than it took you to accept mission and warp to mission the Nightmare is it. /Helen runs off to hug Nightmare. Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Hans Angry http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rattingravenxq8.jpg That's a much better Raven setup. It's completely reasonable to upgrade to CN launchers and BCUs, but it's by no means "mandatory". I certainly wouldn't do it in a ratting boat, though. At any rate, the part you're missing about the phoon's damage is: - The phoon requires ALOT more skills - The phoon has to deal with guns, which have tracking and transversal issues After having spent some time missioning in both a Maelstrom and a Raven, I've got to say that they perform "equivalently" with similar skills - until you factor in faction gear. Once there's faction gear on the Raven, it becomes really... really... really powerful for missioning. The effect of CN BCUs and CN Cruises is much more noticeable than Domi Gyros and SS TC's. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:16:00 - [26] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Hans Angry http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rattingravenxq8.jpg That's a much better Raven setup. It's completely reasonable to upgrade to CN launchers and BCUs, but it's by no means "mandatory". I certainly wouldn't do it in a ratting boat, though. At any rate, the part you're missing about the phoon's damage is: - The phoon requires ALOT more skills - The phoon has to deal with guns, which have tracking and transversal issues After having spent some time missioning in both a Maelstrom and a Raven, I've got to say that they perform "equivalently" with similar skills - until you factor in faction gear. Once there's faction gear on the Raven, it becomes really... really... really powerful for missioning. The effect of CN BCUs and CN Cruises is much more noticeable than Domi Gyros and SS TC's. -Liang yeah im just saying, if your spec'ed 50/50, i would say phoon or domi Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Hans Angry yeah im just saying, if your spec'ed 50/50, i would say phoon or domi TBH, I haven't gotten as far as gathering the raw numbers for the phoon (yet). I haven't progressed nearly as far as I would have liked in the "grand comparison". =/ At any rate, if any ships are going to throw the CNR/Golem out of the "best mission runner" spot, I'm sure it will be a mach, sentry domi, paladin, or nightmare. I may yet be surprised though. ;-) Anyway, I put out a request for setups for it (for various battleships), but it went unanswered. Meh. I watched movies with my wife last night :p -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:57:00 - [28] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Dominix can have decent dps with sentries, but then it doesn't have enough tank. If you tank it up, the damage sucks. Basically both ships are losers. Dominix still has many fans though, probably since it is okay for doing missions slow but safe, or completely AFK. At least the "looser" Dominix has it's main weapon immune to the ewar you ***** about in the other thread grumble grumble Domi, looser, pffft. Domi rocks!
VB Sarge The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.11 01:12:00 - [29] I'd say there are two ships that I hear about the most when it comes to doing lvl 4 missions, the Raven, and the Dominix. For the average joe who doesn't have billions to get the absolute best ship with the absolute best gear, those are your two main options. The Phoon seems to work also if you want to stay racial, but does need a bit more SP than the Domi or Raven. The Geddon I've actually heard quite a lot of good noise about from the few Amarr pilots I talk to. Basically the absolute "king" would have to be the Raven, due to the fact that it is useful at low SP levels and is the "everyman's" ship. If you want to go officer/faction fitted and use ultra high SP levels, then you'll obviously find another ship that can outperform, but if you are looking for something realistic, I don't think you can go wrong with the Raven, and the Domi coming in a not too distant second place. Third place I'd put the Geddon, and fourth would be the Phoon, as far as racial BS's go. www.the-bastards.com
Max Payne	Posted - 2008.01.11 02:03:00 - [30] I see what you did there :)

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