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xyeLz
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Posted - 2008.01.11 04:22:00 -
[31]
I still say Raven, or the Raven family.
Phoon is nice, but not so great for PvE. The split damage types make it inconvinient, EVE is NOT about pure dps or pure tank.. It's also about skill-intensity, fitting the same type of weapons etc.
Really, what you get with a Phoon is this:
Any damage mods you'll fit, will only affect 50% of the weapon modules. On a raven, any damage mods will affect all weapons, making it require much less slots to achieve the same damage bonus, or alternatively, making it use the same slots for a higher damage bonus.
Ontop of that, half the phoon's weapons will *not* hit as well as the raven's weapons. That's a fact, especially on frigates and destroyers, cruisers, I had alot of trouble hitting with turrets in the past, even with dual tracking enhancers in the lows. And though there are plenty of battleships, in missions there are way more frigate and cruiser sized ships that you need to take care of one way or another, and sentries will have alot of trouble hitting as well. Any smaller drones will just equal drones that a Raven can get, but doesn't require, as cruise missiles can do perfectly fine on smaller ships too in my experience. Any small ship circling you, you will not kill with turrets, you will with cruise missiles, and frankly the Raven has more of those period.
The different ranges of Cruise and Turrets make it harder to choose targets, as one may be in range of the cruise, but not the turrets. That said, the optimal of turrets isn't exactly amazing either, unless you lower your DPS even more by choosing high range ammo.
Lastly, the Phoon to compensate for the dual weapon types, yielding different ranges, requiring different damage mods, and different ship bonuses, to make up for this, you can fit 8 weapons. And frankly, it *requires* 8 weapons, and has trouble fitting the best 8 weapons it can fit, you don't have trouble like that on a Raven.
Skillpoints wise, the Phoon requires missiles, turrets AND drones. Sure, you can say 'All skills V', but realistically by far most people will see skillpoint requirements as a realistic and practical issue, one that the Raven doesn't have as much.
In the end, a Phoon is a great PvP ship because you can fit torps and autocannons, and drones are actually useful. In PvE, it's the other way around. A phoon can be and is powerful, but a Raven wins.
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Fehnrail
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.11 09:24:00 -
[32]
Nighthawk beats Raven without much trouble.
There is fighting, and then there is fighting:
Some weapons are more useful than others, and not all battles must be won. |
Mc Fraser
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2008.01.11 09:29:00 -
[33]
paladin.
my paladin rips through missions in alot less time than my raven it saved me 15mins or the assault using the paladin over then raven
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.01.11 10:03:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: xyeLz
On a raven, any damage mods will affect all weapons,
Just 6 highslots then. No, I'd definitely add a couple guns to a cruise raven, I even did to my torp raven back when torps were viable.
Cruise Raven will also miss shots due to defenders. Cruise Raven dps is also nothing to write home about. CNR otoh can get decent numbers from cruise.
Imho, Raven isn't that great, better then Domi in some missions perhaps, and worse in others. CNR can most likely be beat on some missions, but overall CNR and Golem are still the mission kings. Freely selectable damage type, long range, no tracking and ability to shoot for full dps while moving (unlike sentry Domi).
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Mamarto
Minmatar
Dead Pirates' Society
Valhalla Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.11 10:18:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Mc Fraser
paladin.
my paladin rips through missions in alot less time than my raven it saved me 15mins or the assault using the paladin over then raven
I have to ask how you managed that?
When looking you up ingame, your standings indicate that you're flying for the Minmatar and that should really give you a hard time with the Paladin's lasers.
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Durzel
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Posted - 2008.01.11 10:50:00 -
[36]
It would seem on paper at least that if you're looking for a one-size-fits-all ship then the Golem will do the job admirably. I mean cmon it even has a ridiculously large cargobay and bonuses to tractor beam speed & range. It might as well be called "The Mission Ship"
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Lunara Yoshi
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.11 11:41:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Durzel
It would seem on paper at least that if you're looking for a one-size-fits-all ship then the Golem will do the job admirably. I mean cmon it even has a ridiculously large cargobay and bonuses to tractor beam speed & range. It might as well be called "The Mission Ship"
I dunno about the low amount of missile bays tho.. but yeah certain marauders are great for pve I reckon, for easy flying I still think the nighthawk has it best unless you are up against a large percentage of BS (then the damage output becomes annoyingly lower than those of cruises)...
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Mc Fraser
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2008.01.11 11:48:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Mc Fraser on 11/01/2008 11:48:40
Originally by: Mamarto
Originally by: Mc Fraser
paladin.
my paladin rips through missions in alot less time than my raven it saved me 15mins or the assault using the paladin over then raven
I have to ask how you managed that?
When looking you up ingame, your standings indicate that you're flying for the Minmatar and that should really give you a hard time with the Paladin's lasers.
sorry my old character was Neon razor and you will find he has standngs to gallente but if you look at the corp i am in we operate out of shuria and i have a alt that has standing to access the 2 agents in shuria.
i use her to access the missions would use her CNR if gurista or angels and would let neon razor do the mission if it was sansha.
have maxed the alt in social skills so get more LP and isk if i use her to get the mission than what i would get
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xyeLz
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Posted - 2008.01.11 15:23:00 -
[39]
Anyone that quoted me thinking I said the Raven is the king of ratting, is a moron. I ment, just like I said, the raven family, ie CNR or Golem, and those are imo still better than the paladin or nighthawk.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.01.11 17:28:00 -
[40]
Some people mean what they say, and say what they mean. For others, that is too difficult.
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Raven Skarresbriar
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Posted - 2008.01.11 18:14:00 -
[41]
I'd cheer for the golem, but rat defenders start neutering its firepower.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.01.11 18:29:00 -
[42]
I think the king of mission running is the paladin fighting amarr type ships.
Raven is a fairly good 'generalist' that lets you run missions fairly effectively with a minimum of skill points.
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Helen
Eve Innovative Technologies
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Posted - 2008.01.11 19:46:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ulstan
I think the king of mission running is the paladin fighting amarr type ships.
Fail. Nightmare is king for amarr type missions.
Those who fly it know.
Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2008.01.11 20:07:00 -
[44]
OK, so it looks like there is some dispute.
But either way, raven is still not a bad choice, there's just some that also square up quite nicely.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Pikfjaes
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Posted - 2008.01.11 23:04:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Fehnrail
Nighthawk beats Raven without much trouble.
Surely it does not. It can keep up with a normal Raven, but a CNR or Golem will be so much better.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2008.01.12 00:23:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Originally by: Fehnrail
Nighthawk beats Raven without much trouble.
Surely it does not. It can keep up with a normal Raven, but a CNR or Golem will be so much better.
Tradoff really.
NH can run a passive tank, and 3 BCS.
It'll do near 500dps with heavys and drones.
On paper, that's lower. However your heavy missiles also have a very small explosion radius, which means they totally slaughter smaller ships. (In PVE).
In general, they tend to be pretty comparable, simply because you're able to wipe out cruisers and frigates so much faster, and still have enough punch to take down the BS.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
xyeLz
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Posted - 2008.01.12 07:43:00 -
[47]
It's kind of like saying, win the lotterly of 10 million dollars once, or work 23 hours a day and become richer than winning the lottery.. Which is better.
Sure, the latter can make more money in the end, but is it convenient? The raven is cheap, and it doesn't require many skillpoints, and it's widely available and accepted. For that reason alone I'd prefer it over a ship that does say 25% extra dps, and takes 10x longer to learn for.
Just a thought.. The Raven really is /easy to use/, and that is an unwritten statistic that one should not ignore.
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Bellator Militaris
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Posted - 2008.01.12 09:44:00 -
[48]
YES 
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.12 10:02:00 -
[49]
Edited by: cal nereus on 12/01/2008 10:03:09
The Raven (or CNR) is still the king of missioning, but it isn't undisputed anymore. If you have enough skills to fly the Raven well, know how to use the Raven properly, and know how to handle each mission... you're fine. Torp changes don't hurt you, they only help you if you know how to use 'em right. However, now there are other ships that are just as awesome, and some pilots are gonna fly those better than they'd ever fly the Raven family.
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Join BH-DL
Skills |
Ikonz
Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2008.01.12 11:08:00 -
[50]
What about a maxed nighthawk?
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Ban Shui
Eve University
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Posted - 2008.01.13 07:55:00 -
[51]
I used to fly missions with the Raven, but switched the the Mega Pulse Abaddon. I have to say that I rate the Abaddon quite highly compared to the raven.
It has a much better tank and absolutely melts cruisers as well as BS within 20km. For BS at longer range (out to 45km) it is a bit more tedious. The only problem is that it is pretty sucky at longer ranges and especially against guristas.
Still, I'd say the raven is probably better in general given its good range with cruise missiles and its ability to change damage types.
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Tar om
Minmatar
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.14 09:14:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
The real dealbreaker though is that anyone with 5 million skillpoints can solo level 4's in a Raven. The Phoon is a decent ship, I'll admit. But it's one of the most skill-intensive ships out there. Raven is far more efficient, and efficiency is the only thing that counts when grinding missions.
This.
Raven is the best way to get into L4s quickly. It may or may not be edged out by a phoon pilot eventually, but by the time the phoon pilot is doing L4s the Raven pilot will have bought him and his mother with spare change.
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DEVS get multiple CPUs/Cores per system and all will be forgiven.
www.octavianvanguard.net |
Love Denied
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.01.14 09:45:00 -
[53]
CNR cruise spec is the best choice IMO since you can do all types of damages and hit from 0m- your max locking range,id never use a turretbased ship for missions ever since if the target starts doing to much transversal you are much likely to hit. raven / CN raven is the "easy" choice and dosent really take much SP invested to start doing missions in, i cant really say about Golem but from what iwe heard / gathered from ppl i know that have flown em is that its a minor upgrade from CN raven, so id not spend 2 1/2 month from where i am now to fly one.
some on the part about nighthawk killing cruisers faster that might be true but with cruise missiles i kill cruisers in 3 wolleys battlecruisers in 2 and battleships in 6-12 wolleys depending on mission / bounty.
my CN fit
7x CN launchers 1x drone augmentation link 4x CN hardners ( mission specific) 1x CN booster amp 1x CN X-large booster
3x CN BCU¦s 1x pdu 1x dcu id use 2x pdus but i run in system that sometimes lags for 1-3min  and 3 CCC rigs
for ratting id go full tech2 and a CPU in low on a regular raven 
Caldari Loyalist
people die when love is denied |
Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.01.14 09:53:00 -
[54]
Well, a raven is quite fast but i simply hate missiles when NPC launch anti missiles.
I was told, go pve noob. But i wanted to pvp. I searched around and saw that raven isn't that good in pvp... Missiles... I serched around and find that drones are ok both in PVE and PVP...
So i skilled a Dominix.
Now im a T2 calda that tank armor, blasters, heavy drones and im happy with that (cuz i wreck many ravens =)
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Byzan Zwyth
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.01.14 19:46:00 -
[55]
I'd say raven/CNR, I'm going to one now for missions and selling my mega.
Shield Tank does not share slots with damage mods, it shares with tackle & EWAR which only gimps it for PvP. Shield tank is better for PvE.
Missiles are much better at low SP's. it seems to take a vast number of SP's before Gunnery catches missiles for PvE.
Ability to choose damage types - come up against the wrong faction in a mission when you cant choose your damage and life sucks. Cruise damage may not be uber but it's good and you never have to worry about resists.
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Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.
Dawn of Transcendence
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Posted - 2008.01.14 20:11:00 -
[56]
I think people are underestimating the Paladin.
EVE History Wiki
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.01.14 20:27:00 -
[57]
Raven is the Yawn.
Megathron is the Yarr !
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mistersparky
Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.01.15 16:13:00 -
[58]
I had been using a Navythron up until this week (woops), fitted with 425mm proto's, webber, tracking comp, faction rep, T2 hardeners, lots of mag stabs/tracking enhancers, with sentries and lights in the drone bay. Even with marginal gunnery skills, it had an excellent damage output, and went through missions very fast. GB4 in 20 mintes, with a lot of missions (UMP, massive attack and so on) not even requiring the rep. Anything larger than a frigate in webbing range dropped pretty fast. HAC's were a little harder to hit around the 14km range, and the turrets could hit frigates under 30km or so. With a sensor booster, you could quite often catch and drop the frigate class ships at thier spawn points anyways. For the larger missions, you had to be careful about handling agro - and once in a while I fit a 3rd hardener or even damage control.
I have zero missils skills, and so cannot compare to a Raven setup, but I woud certainly recommend this approach to anyone wanting to run missions quickly.
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Jezabel2
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Posted - 2008.01.15 16:28:00 -
[59]
Nightmare!!!!
me and a CNR buddy faced off in missions, for gurista's, angel's, serpentis we killed at about the same rate, for all the other missions I slaughtered his kill rate :)
With a correctly setup nightmare it gets kinda rare for tachs to miss. :)
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.15 16:30:00 -
[60]
Against Sansha and Blood raiders Abaddon with Pulse and scorch is the best one. Its also good against serpentis (but then you need to use beams and MultiFrequency for high Thermal damage)
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If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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