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Is the Raven still the Undisputed King of Missioning?

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Mazakura Republic University	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:19:00 - [1] Topic says it all. Even with the torp changes, aren't most people just changing over to cruise missles? I'm about to start up a pure mission runner. Is the raven still the undisputed king of missioning? (Yes, Level 3-5). Are there any ships that can compare to the speed and npc killing power of a raven spewing out loads and loads of cruise missles? To make a discussion out of this, I hear the typhoon is now a great ship but still doesn't compare to the good old proven raven.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:22:00 - [2] Pretty much, yes. The gap between raven and the alternatives has narrowed, which is good. But the Raven is still pretty hard to beat. (Golem and CNR may come out a little ahead, but then so too might the other marauders). -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
ezraniel Caldari An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:25:00 - [3] i don't have experience with other race's mission runners but i personally don't find cruise that big a difference vs torps. besides the damage part i actually like cruise's more since i can pick off targets right away instead of needing to get close to them. so... its down to personaly preference if you go cruise or torps i guess. i like being able to shoot right away, others like the pure destruction torps put forth... pure choice. now compared to other ships... i must say a wel fitted/trained Raven can be VERY deadly to say the least, but i've also seen minmatar ships almost instagib cruiser spawns and take down BS spawns with very great ease. the only ships i see struggling a bit are minmatar because they either need to get pretty close like torp ravens to be effective or they need to keep range to sniper in a mega or alike...
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:27:00 - [4] The Raven family (including Golem, CNR) will always be kings of mission grinding. What other ship has long range weapons which never miss and need zero cap, has a cap-efficient tank, and can fit damage mods without gimping said tank? -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Acoco Osiris Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:45:00 - [5] The Raven hasn't been the king of mission-running for a long time. The Raven Navy Issue has held that title. The Golem is a bit iffy, but is in good competition with the CNR. And yes, I know I'm being silly, but that's what I do best. ------------------- I nerfed my own sig To amuse you, here is my Retriever ever since its first Trinity deployment. RIP. * * * * ** * * * ** * * * * * *** *
Mining Magnate	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:51:00 - [6] Raven is still up there, as Acoco says CNR is obviously better/best (Some will always dispute which ship is best bc of personal preference). Golem has potential, but DPS could potentially suffer to defenders, as each missile knocked out is the equivalent of 2 from the Raven.
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:54:00 - [7] Originally by: Acoco Osiris The Raven hasn't been the king of mission-running for a long time. The Raven Navy Issue has held that title. The Golem is a bit iffy, but is in good competition with the CNR. And yes, I know I'm being silly, but that's what I do best. At the end of the day they're still all Ravens when you think about it. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Jei'son Bladesmith The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:54:00 - [8] I refuse to fly Ravens. Navy Mega or Machariel ftw. ☼☼☼ 12 Seconds ☼☼☼
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:01:00 - [9] Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:04:38 No, Typhoon or Dominix are best, put t2 sentries on them, and guns, plus a better tank, they win. Originally by: Arthur Frayn The Raven family (including Golem, CNR) will always be kings of mission grinding. What other ship has long range weapons which never miss and need zero cap, has a cap-efficient tank, and can fit damage mods without gimping said tank? Dominix and Typhoon both use 0 cap for guns, tank better, output more dps, never have to reload the sentry drones, constant output of dps, Typhoon and Dominix take the win. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Hans Angry Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:02:11 No, Typhoon or Dominix are best, put t2 sentries on them, and guns, plus a better tank, they win. Sentries can die from aggro. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:07:00 - [11] Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:08:19 Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Hans Angry Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:02:11 No, Typhoon or Dominix are best, put t2 sentries on them, and guns, plus a better tank, they win. Sentries can die from aggro. launch them after the rats have you hard locked... come on, you must know rats dont switch tagets forgot to say too, the drones wont get jammed Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:08:00 - [12] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 10/01/2008 23:08:39 Originally by: Hans Angry Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:04:38 No, Typhoon or Dominix are best, put t2 sentries on them, and guns, plus a better tank, they win. Originally by: Arthur Frayn The Raven family (including Golem, CNR) will always be kings of mission grinding. What other ship has long range weapons which never miss and need zero cap, has a cap-efficient tank, and can fit damage mods without gimping said tank? Dominix and Typhoon both use 0 cap for guns, tank better, output more dps, never have to reload the sentry drones, constant output of dps, Typhoon and Dominix take the win. Typhoon's guns can miss, their split weapons system requires two types of damage mods, and poor grid/cpu for fitting. Phoon also has split weapon ranges making it a poor choice for full dps at long range, drones can be killed easily. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:10:00 - [13] Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:10:59 Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 10/01/2008 23:08:39 Originally by: Hans Angry Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:04:38 No, Typhoon or Dominix are best, put t2 sentries on them, and guns, plus a better tank, they win. Originally by: Arthur Frayn The Raven family (including Golem, CNR) will always be kings of mission grinding. What other ship has long range weapons which never miss and need zero cap, has a cap-efficient tank, and can fit damage mods without gimping said tank? Dominix and Typhoon both use 0 cap for guns, tank better, output more dps, never have to reload the sentry drones, constant output of dps, Typhoon and Dominix take the win. Typhoon's guns can miss, their split weapons system requires two types of damage mods, and poor grid/cpu for fitting. Phoon also has split weapon ranges making it a poor choice for full dps at long range, drones can be killed easily. yes they can miss, but 4 cruises should be what you use on the phoon, and 4 250mm II's or 4 720mm II's, both work, 250's have more dps, and there is plenty of room to fit a double rep tank and damage mods, know what your talking about before you say anything, also only use BCU's the cruises will do more dps Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:10:00 - [14] Even with sentry drone augmentors, your DPS is still going to have trouble beating a properly fit CNR - however I agree that it stands the best chance of actually succeeding in dethroning the Raven. This is one of the comparisons I plan on making (I'm working on a comparison of all the popular mission ships with semi-realistic fits). So far, the Mach is really good, the sentry domi is really good, and the CNR/Golem is really good. I've been involved in a little war up in my neighborhood of Syndicate, so I haven't had as much time as I might have liked. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Liang Nuren Even with sentry drone augmentors, your DPS is still going to have trouble beating a properly fit CNR - however I agree that it stands the best chance of actually succeeding in dethroning the Raven. This is one of the comparisons I plan on making (I'm working on a comparison of all the popular mission ships with semi-realistic fits). So far, the Mach is really good, the sentry domi is really good, and the CNR/Golem is really good. I've been involved in a little war up in my neighborhood of Syndicate, so I haven't had as much time as I might have liked. -Liang i wont lie, the cnr can do well for itself, but the typhoon my out stat it a little, if you use t2 sentry's or ogres, phoon is cheaper, so is the domi, but yeah CNR is still a great ship for missions, but if you need a cheap easy way to start, both the domi and phoon are good, also if your not spec'ed caldari Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Hans Angry Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:04:38 No, Typhoon or Dominix are best, put t2 sentries on them, and guns, plus a better tank, they win. Originally by: Arthur Frayn The Raven family (including Golem, CNR) will always be kings of mission grinding. What other ship has long range weapons which never miss and need zero cap, has a cap-efficient tank, and can fit damage mods without gimping said tank? Dominix and Typhoon both use 0 cap for guns, tank better, output more dps, never have to reload the sentry drones, constant output of dps, Typhoon and Dominix take the win. Typhoon simply sucks for L4s, unbonused sentries and spilt weapons means it has pants for dps. Dominix can have decent dps with sentries, but then it doesn't have enough tank. If you tank it up, the damage sucks. Basically both ships are losers. Dominix still has many fans though, probably since it is okay for doing missions slow but safe, or completely AFK. The only thing that is on par with or even beats the Raven family is the laser boats that everyone whines so much about. Abaddon(or Paladin if you feel you are too rich) and Nightmare are hands down the best mission ships if you stick to racially suited enemies (i.e. run missions for Amarr). You just have to be interactive, if you want to semi-AFK they are probably worse than the missile ships too. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:19:00 - [17] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 10/01/2008 23:20:49 Originally by: Hans Angry yes they can miss, but 4 cruises should be what you use on the phoon, and 4 250mm II's or 4 720mm II's, both work, 250's have more dps, and there is plenty of room to fit a double rep tank and damage mods, know what your talking about before you say anything, also only use BCU's the cruises will do more dps I do know what I'm talking about. You claiming that I don't is a conceit, rather than knowledge. You could fit autocannons for more dps, but only up close. You could fit artillery but only for long range. You have to sacrifice half your dps on a target depending on what range you're shooting from. Sure you can fit a dual rep tank in the lows and have enough room for perhaps a gyrostab and a BCU... but with a Raven, you can fit four BCU's and retain a similar tank if not better. Also, your missiles hit at any range. Did I forget to mention you only need to keep one ammo type in your cargo hold? The real dealbreaker though is that anyone with 5 million skillpoints can solo level 4's in a Raven. The Phoon is a decent ship, I'll admit. But it's one of the most skill-intensive ships out there. Raven is far more efficient, and efficiency is the only thing that counts when grinding missions. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:39:00 - [18] Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:42:13 http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rattingtyphooneo1.jpg - typhoon http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rattingdominixlp1.jpg - dominix http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rattingravenyq2.jpg - raven, might not be the best fit, but seems pretty average now point out where the raven does more dps, navy raven though would do better then the phoon, would be competing with the domi Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Hitme Harder HERRO KITTY	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:40:00 - [19] Paladin for everything but angels.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:54:00 - [20] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 10/01/2008 23:56:59 I like how you used Arby cruises on the Raven and Cruise II's on the Phoon. Epic Win. -Liang Ed: Removed a bit o smack. -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:58:00 - [21] Edited by: Hans Angry on 10/01/2008 23:59:12 Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 10/01/2008 23:56:59 I like how you used Arby cruises on the Raven and Cruise II's on the Phoon. Epic Win. -Liang Ed: Removed a bit o smack. they didnt fit with the setup, post up a better setup, im not good with the raven i think 650 dps with t2 though... if you remove 1 bcu and use t2 though, it does less dps then the 3 bcu and 6 arbies Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:02:00 - [22] Fit a T1 or DG shield booster or use a CPU implant. Also, unless you're going for a perma run setup, you'll be more interested in 'burst' tanking - so you'll want to use PDUs or (CPRs + Amps). -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:07:00 - [23] http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rattingravenxq8.jpg Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Helen Eve Innovative Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Leandro Salazar The only thing that is on par with or even beats the Raven family is the laser boats that everyone whines so much about. Abaddon(or Paladin if you feel you are too rich) and Nightmare are hands down the best mission ships if you stick to racially suited enemies (i.e. run missions for Amarr). You just have to be interactive, if you want to semi-AFK they are probably worse than the missile ships too. This. CNR/Golem/Raven suck compared to the awesomeness of the Nightmare if you want to afk it get a Drake. If you want something that can clear a lvl 4 faster than it took you to accept mission and warp to mission the Nightmare is it. /Helen runs off to hug Nightmare. Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Hans Angry http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rattingravenxq8.jpg That's a much better Raven setup. It's completely reasonable to upgrade to CN launchers and BCUs, but it's by no means "mandatory". I certainly wouldn't do it in a ratting boat, though. At any rate, the part you're missing about the phoon's damage is: - The phoon requires ALOT more skills - The phoon has to deal with guns, which have tracking and transversal issues After having spent some time missioning in both a Maelstrom and a Raven, I've got to say that they perform "equivalently" with similar skills - until you factor in faction gear. Once there's faction gear on the Raven, it becomes really... really... really powerful for missioning. The effect of CN BCUs and CN Cruises is much more noticeable than Domi Gyros and SS TC's. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Hans Angry Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:16:00 - [26] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Hans Angry http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rattingravenxq8.jpg That's a much better Raven setup. It's completely reasonable to upgrade to CN launchers and BCUs, but it's by no means "mandatory". I certainly wouldn't do it in a ratting boat, though. At any rate, the part you're missing about the phoon's damage is: - The phoon requires ALOT more skills - The phoon has to deal with guns, which have tracking and transversal issues After having spent some time missioning in both a Maelstrom and a Raven, I've got to say that they perform "equivalently" with similar skills - until you factor in faction gear. Once there's faction gear on the Raven, it becomes really... really... really powerful for missioning. The effect of CN BCUs and CN Cruises is much more noticeable than Domi Gyros and SS TC's. -Liang yeah im just saying, if your spec'ed 50/50, i would say phoon or domi Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Hans Angry yeah im just saying, if your spec'ed 50/50, i would say phoon or domi TBH, I haven't gotten as far as gathering the raw numbers for the phoon (yet). I haven't progressed nearly as far as I would have liked in the "grand comparison". =/ At any rate, if any ships are going to throw the CNR/Golem out of the "best mission runner" spot, I'm sure it will be a mach, sentry domi, paladin, or nightmare. I may yet be surprised though. ;-) Anyway, I put out a request for setups for it (for various battleships), but it went unanswered. Meh. I watched movies with my wife last night :p -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:57:00 - [28] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Dominix can have decent dps with sentries, but then it doesn't have enough tank. If you tank it up, the damage sucks. Basically both ships are losers. Dominix still has many fans though, probably since it is okay for doing missions slow but safe, or completely AFK. At least the "looser" Dominix has it's main weapon immune to the ewar you ***** about in the other thread grumble grumble Domi, looser, pffft. Domi rocks!
VB Sarge The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.11 01:12:00 - [29] I'd say there are two ships that I hear about the most when it comes to doing lvl 4 missions, the Raven, and the Dominix. For the average joe who doesn't have billions to get the absolute best ship with the absolute best gear, those are your two main options. The Phoon seems to work also if you want to stay racial, but does need a bit more SP than the Domi or Raven. The Geddon I've actually heard quite a lot of good noise about from the few Amarr pilots I talk to. Basically the absolute "king" would have to be the Raven, due to the fact that it is useful at low SP levels and is the "everyman's" ship. If you want to go officer/faction fitted and use ultra high SP levels, then you'll obviously find another ship that can outperform, but if you are looking for something realistic, I don't think you can go wrong with the Raven, and the Domi coming in a not too distant second place. Third place I'd put the Geddon, and fourth would be the Phoon, as far as racial BS's go. www.the-bastards.com
Max Payne	Posted - 2008.01.11 02:03:00 - [30] I see what you did there :)
xyeLz	Posted - 2008.01.11 04:22:00 - [31] I still say Raven, or the Raven family. Phoon is nice, but not so great for PvE. The split damage types make it inconvinient, EVE is NOT about pure dps or pure tank.. It's also about skill-intensity, fitting the same type of weapons etc. Really, what you get with a Phoon is this: Any damage mods you'll fit, will only affect 50% of the weapon modules. On a raven, any damage mods will affect all weapons, making it require much less slots to achieve the same damage bonus, or alternatively, making it use the same slots for a higher damage bonus. Ontop of that, half the phoon's weapons will not hit as well as the raven's weapons. That's a fact, especially on frigates and destroyers, cruisers, I had alot of trouble hitting with turrets in the past, even with dual tracking enhancers in the lows. And though there are plenty of battleships, in missions there are way more frigate and cruiser sized ships that you need to take care of one way or another, and sentries will have alot of trouble hitting as well. Any smaller drones will just equal drones that a Raven can get, but doesn't require, as cruise missiles can do perfectly fine on smaller ships too in my experience. Any small ship circling you, you will not kill with turrets, you will with cruise missiles, and frankly the Raven has more of those period. The different ranges of Cruise and Turrets make it harder to choose targets, as one may be in range of the cruise, but not the turrets. That said, the optimal of turrets isn't exactly amazing either, unless you lower your DPS even more by choosing high range ammo. Lastly, the Phoon to compensate for the dual weapon types, yielding different ranges, requiring different damage mods, and different ship bonuses, to make up for this, you can fit 8 weapons. And frankly, it requires 8 weapons, and has trouble fitting the best 8 weapons it can fit, you don't have trouble like that on a Raven. Skillpoints wise, the Phoon requires missiles, turrets AND drones. Sure, you can say 'All skills V', but realistically by far most people will see skillpoint requirements as a realistic and practical issue, one that the Raven doesn't have as much. In the end, a Phoon is a great PvP ship because you can fit torps and autocannons, and drones are actually useful. In PvE, it's the other way around. A phoon can be and is powerful, but a Raven wins.
Fehnrail Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.11 09:24:00 - [32] Nighthawk beats Raven without much trouble. There is fighting, and then there is fighting: Some weapons are more useful than others, and not all battles must be won.
Mc Fraser Cross Roads	Posted - 2008.01.11 09:29:00 - [33] paladin. my paladin rips through missions in alot less time than my raven it saved me 15mins or the assault using the paladin over then raven
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.11 10:03:00 - [34] Originally by: xyeLz On a raven, any damage mods will affect all weapons, Just 6 highslots then. No, I'd definitely add a couple guns to a cruise raven, I even did to my torp raven back when torps were viable. Cruise Raven will also miss shots due to defenders. Cruise Raven dps is also nothing to write home about. CNR otoh can get decent numbers from cruise. Imho, Raven isn't that great, better then Domi in some missions perhaps, and worse in others. CNR can most likely be beat on some missions, but overall CNR and Golem are still the mission kings. Freely selectable damage type, long range, no tracking and ability to shoot for full dps while moving (unlike sentry Domi).
Mamarto Minmatar Dead Pirates' Society Valhalla Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.11 10:18:00 - [35] Originally by: Mc Fraser paladin. my paladin rips through missions in alot less time than my raven it saved me 15mins or the assault using the paladin over then raven I have to ask how you managed that? When looking you up ingame, your standings indicate that you're flying for the Minmatar and that should really give you a hard time with the Paladin's lasers.
Durzel	Posted - 2008.01.11 10:50:00 - [36] It would seem on paper at least that if you're looking for a one-size-fits-all ship then the Golem will do the job admirably. I mean cmon it even has a ridiculously large cargobay and bonuses to tractor beam speed & range. It might as well be called "The Mission Ship"
Lunara Yoshi Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:41:00 - [37] Originally by: Durzel It would seem on paper at least that if you're looking for a one-size-fits-all ship then the Golem will do the job admirably. I mean cmon it even has a ridiculously large cargobay and bonuses to tractor beam speed & range. It might as well be called "The Mission Ship" I dunno about the low amount of missile bays tho.. but yeah certain marauders are great for pve I reckon, for easy flying I still think the nighthawk has it best unless you are up against a large percentage of BS (then the damage output becomes annoyingly lower than those of cruises)...
Mc Fraser Cross Roads	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:48:00 - [38] Edited by: Mc Fraser on 11/01/2008 11:48:40 Originally by: Mamarto Originally by: Mc Fraser paladin. my paladin rips through missions in alot less time than my raven it saved me 15mins or the assault using the paladin over then raven I have to ask how you managed that? When looking you up ingame, your standings indicate that you're flying for the Minmatar and that should really give you a hard time with the Paladin's lasers. sorry my old character was Neon razor and you will find he has standngs to gallente but if you look at the corp i am in we operate out of shuria and i have a alt that has standing to access the 2 agents in shuria. i use her to access the missions would use her CNR if gurista or angels and would let neon razor do the mission if it was sansha. have maxed the alt in social skills so get more LP and isk if i use her to get the mission than what i would get
xyeLz	Posted - 2008.01.11 15:23:00 - [39] Anyone that quoted me thinking I said the Raven is the king of ratting, is a moron. I ment, just like I said, the raven family, ie CNR or Golem, and those are imo still better than the paladin or nighthawk.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.11 17:28:00 - [40] Some people mean what they say, and say what they mean. For others, that is too difficult.
Raven Skarresbriar	Posted - 2008.01.11 18:14:00 - [41] I'd cheer for the golem, but rat defenders start neutering its firepower.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.11 18:29:00 - [42] I think the king of mission running is the paladin fighting amarr type ships. Raven is a fairly good 'generalist' that lets you run missions fairly effectively with a minimum of skill points.
Helen Eve Innovative Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:46:00 - [43] Originally by: Ulstan I think the king of mission running is the paladin fighting amarr type ships. Fail. Nightmare is king for amarr type missions. Those who fly it know. Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.01.11 20:07:00 - [44] OK, so it looks like there is some dispute. But either way, raven is still not a bad choice, there's just some that also square up quite nicely. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Ap0ll0n Gallente Pikfjaes	Posted - 2008.01.11 23:04:00 - [45] Originally by: Fehnrail Nighthawk beats Raven without much trouble. Surely it does not. It can keep up with a normal Raven, but a CNR or Golem will be so much better.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.01.12 00:23:00 - [46] Originally by: Ap0ll0n Originally by: Fehnrail Nighthawk beats Raven without much trouble. Surely it does not. It can keep up with a normal Raven, but a CNR or Golem will be so much better. Tradoff really. NH can run a passive tank, and 3 BCS. It'll do near 500dps with heavys and drones. On paper, that's lower. However your heavy missiles also have a very small explosion radius, which means they totally slaughter smaller ships. (In PVE). In general, they tend to be pretty comparable, simply because you're able to wipe out cruisers and frigates so much faster, and still have enough punch to take down the BS. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
xyeLz	Posted - 2008.01.12 07:43:00 - [47] It's kind of like saying, win the lotterly of 10 million dollars once, or work 23 hours a day and become richer than winning the lottery.. Which is better. Sure, the latter can make more money in the end, but is it convenient? The raven is cheap, and it doesn't require many skillpoints, and it's widely available and accepted. For that reason alone I'd prefer it over a ship that does say 25% extra dps, and takes 10x longer to learn for. Just a thought.. The Raven really is /easy to use/, and that is an unwritten statistic that one should not ignore.
Bellator Militaris	Posted - 2008.01.12 09:44:00 - [48] YES
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.12 10:02:00 - [49] Edited by: cal nereus on 12/01/2008 10:03:09 The Raven (or CNR) is still the king of missioning, but it isn't undisputed anymore. If you have enough skills to fly the Raven well, know how to use the Raven properly, and know how to handle each mission... you're fine. Torp changes don't hurt you, they only help you if you know how to use 'em right. However, now there are other ships that are just as awesome, and some pilots are gonna fly those better than they'd ever fly the Raven family. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Ikonz Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2008.01.12 11:08:00 - [50] What about a maxed nighthawk?
Ban Shui Eve University	Posted - 2008.01.13 07:55:00 - [51] I used to fly missions with the Raven, but switched the the Mega Pulse Abaddon. I have to say that I rate the Abaddon quite highly compared to the raven. It has a much better tank and absolutely melts cruisers as well as BS within 20km. For BS at longer range (out to 45km) it is a bit more tedious. The only problem is that it is pretty sucky at longer ranges and especially against guristas. Still, I'd say the raven is probably better in general given its good range with cruise missiles and its ability to change damage types.
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.14 09:14:00 - [52] Originally by: Arthur Frayn The real dealbreaker though is that anyone with 5 million skillpoints can solo level 4's in a Raven. The Phoon is a decent ship, I'll admit. But it's one of the most skill-intensive ships out there. Raven is far more efficient, and efficiency is the only thing that counts when grinding missions. This. Raven is the best way to get into L4s quickly. It may or may not be edged out by a phoon pilot eventually, but by the time the phoon pilot is doing L4s the Raven pilot will have bought him and his mother with spare change. -- DEVS get multiple CPUs/Cores per system and all will be forgiven. www.octavianvanguard.net
Love Denied Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.01.14 09:45:00 - [53] CNR cruise spec is the best choice IMO since you can do all types of damages and hit from 0m- your max locking range,id never use a turretbased ship for missions ever since if the target starts doing to much transversal you are much likely to hit. raven / CN raven is the "easy" choice and dosent really take much SP invested to start doing missions in, i cant really say about Golem but from what iwe heard / gathered from ppl i know that have flown em is that its a minor upgrade from CN raven, so id not spend 2 1/2 month from where i am now to fly one. some on the part about nighthawk killing cruisers faster that might be true but with cruise missiles i kill cruisers in 3 wolleys battlecruisers in 2 and battleships in 6-12 wolleys depending on mission / bounty. my CN fit 7x CN launchers 1x drone augmentation link 4x CN hardners ( mission specific) 1x CN booster amp 1x CN X-large booster 3x CN BCU¦s 1x pdu 1x dcu id use 2x pdus but i run in system that sometimes lags for 1-3min and 3 CCC rigs for ratting id go full tech2 and a CPU in low on a regular raven Caldari Loyalist *people die when love is denied*
Kaian Voskhod	Posted - 2008.01.14 09:53:00 - [54] Well, a raven is quite fast but i simply hate missiles when NPC launch anti missiles. I was told, go pve noob. But i wanted to pvp. I searched around and saw that raven isn't that good in pvp... Missiles... I serched around and find that drones are ok both in PVE and PVP... So i skilled a Dominix. Now im a T2 calda that tank armor, blasters, heavy drones and im happy with that (cuz i wreck many ravens =)
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:46:00 - [55] I'd say raven/CNR, I'm going to one now for missions and selling my mega. Shield Tank does not share slots with damage mods, it shares with tackle & EWAR which only gimps it for PvP. Shield tank is better for PvE. Missiles are much better at low SP's. it seems to take a vast number of SP's before Gunnery catches missiles for PvE. Ability to choose damage types - come up against the wrong faction in a mission when you cant choose your damage and life sucks. Cruise damage may not be uber but it's good and you never have to worry about resists. ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder
Reiisha Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence	Posted - 2008.01.14 20:11:00 - [56] I think people are underestimating the Paladin. EVE History Wiki
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.01.14 20:27:00 - [57] Raven is the Yawn. Megathron is the Yarr !
mistersparky Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2008.01.15 16:13:00 - [58] I had been using a Navythron up until this week (woops), fitted with 425mm proto's, webber, tracking comp, faction rep, T2 hardeners, lots of mag stabs/tracking enhancers, with sentries and lights in the drone bay. Even with marginal gunnery skills, it had an excellent damage output, and went through missions very fast. GB4 in 20 mintes, with a lot of missions (UMP, massive attack and so on) not even requiring the rep. Anything larger than a frigate in webbing range dropped pretty fast. HAC's were a little harder to hit around the 14km range, and the turrets could hit frigates under 30km or so. With a sensor booster, you could quite often catch and drop the frigate class ships at thier spawn points anyways. For the larger missions, you had to be careful about handling agro - and once in a while I fit a 3rd hardener or even damage control. I have zero missils skills, and so cannot compare to a Raven setup, but I woud certainly recommend this approach to anyone wanting to run missions quickly.
Jezabel2	Posted - 2008.01.15 16:28:00 - [59] Nightmare!!!! me and a CNR buddy faced off in missions, for gurista's, angel's, serpentis we killed at about the same rate, for all the other missions I slaughtered his kill rate :) With a correctly setup nightmare it gets kinda rare for tachs to miss. :)
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.15 16:30:00 - [60] Against Sansha and Blood raiders Abaddon with Pulse and scorch is the best one. Its also good against serpentis (but then you need to use beams and MultiFrequency for high Thermal damage) ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

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