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Crystal set...unfair Advantage for Shield Tanks?

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Edelhonk Gallente The Alpha Connection	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:12:00 - [1] Only a few thoughts about it There is only a Implant Set for Shieldtanks, not for Armortanks. Why? Shield tanks have many Advantages (passiv Tanking possible, faster Boost, when shield is down armor is still there to protect the hull for a time). Why they need another one? And pls dont try to tell me thinks like "Shield tanks are so much harder to fit" or "Shield tanks are so much more cap intens then armor tanks". If you try to bring such arguments you are a. to dumb to fit a ship correct or b. you play a other game then i do. Its so easy to fit shield tanks that are a. )able to tank the same amount of damage that a good fittet Armor tank can do and b.) do the same ammount of damage and run stabil on cap. So why is there a need to boost shield tanks even more? And when there is a reason, why is there no implant set that does the same for Armor tanks???
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:16:00 - [2] ? what happened to slave implants? --- planetary interaction idea!
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:18:00 - [3] For soak tanks, Slaves are better then crystals SKUNK
Asestorian Domination.	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:20:00 - [4] Armour tankers have Slaves. They don't do the same thing, but they are really nice implants nonetheless. --- MOZO
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Qui Shon on 11/01/2008 13:22:30 Also, could I have some ZET 1000-5000 equivalents for shield tanks please. And could OP get a spell checker as well, especially when attempting to call others stupid.
Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Edelhonk So why is there a need to boost shield tanks even more? And when there is a reason, why is there no implant set that does the same for Armor tanks??? Active shield tanks are fail in most cases in pvp anyway imo and the Slave set doesn't give you repair-amount, it gives you +armor (which is much better for pvp). Passive shield tanks on the other hand are already strong enough so a +shield or +shield-recharge imp set would be imbalanced as well. I think it's fine the way it is. Go pvp a bit and then tell me a crystal set is overpowered.
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:22:00 - [7] Also AFAIK slave sets affect capital ships. --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:22:00 - [8] Originally by: Edelhonk Only a few thoughts about it There is only a Implant Set for Shieldtanks, not for Armortanks. Why? Shield tanks have many Advantages (passiv Tanking possible, faster Boost, when shield is down armor is still there to protect the hull for a time). Why they need another one? And pls dont try to tell me thinks like "Shield tanks are so much harder to fit" or "Shield tanks are so much more cap intens then armor tanks". If you try to bring such arguments you are a. to dumb to fit a ship correct or b. you play a other game then i do. Its so easy to fit shield tanks that are a. )able to tank the same amount of damage that a good fittet Armor tank can do and b.) do the same ammount of damage and run stabil on cap. So why is there a need to boost shield tanks even more? And when there is a reason, why is there no implant set that does the same for Armor tanks??? Sure. Give me a web and scram that can fit in a high slot and you can have your implants. Contract at Jita 4-4 pls. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Edelhonk Gallente The Alpha Connection	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:24:00 - [9] lets see Slave set gives you what...arround 55% more HP so you can stay in fight for 30 sec more Crystal Set....OMFG 55% more shield boost so i can tan tank 55% more damage for the same amount of time i know wich one i would take
Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:25:00 - [10] Originally by: Edelhonk lets see Slave set gives you what...arround 55% more HP so you can stay in fight for 30 sec more Crystal Set....OMFG 55% more shield boost so i can tan tank 55% more damage for the same amount of time i know wich one i would take Answer: the buffer tank.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:26:00 - [11] Originally by: Edelhonk lets see Slave set gives you what...arround 55% more HP so you can stay in fight for 30 sec more Crystal Set....OMFG 55% more shield boost so i can tan tank 55% more damage for the same amount of time i know wich one i would take CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Arana Tellen Also AFAIK slave sets affect capital ships. Aye. That's one of the he-uge advantages of the Slave set, 55% more armor buys a ton of time in a capital ship, and with a ship of that price the implants are at a practical cost. Meanwhile the Crystal set only works for sub-capitals, which means they're for people who either have huge-cajones (or a huge wallet) as the bonus isn't as useful on a smaller ship. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:49:00 - [13] Ships fitting active shield tanks along with standard PvP gear tend to have 1-3 slot tanks depending on the ship. Armor tanking PvP setups often have 5+ dedicated slots due to not sharing the same slots with EWAR.
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:54:00 - [14] Crystal implants are for Raven-flying mission runners. Slave implants are for PvP.
Edelhonk Gallente The Alpha Connection	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:59:00 - [15] Edited by: Edelhonk on 11/01/2008 14:03:10 Edited by: Edelhonk on 11/01/2008 14:01:06 Originally by: Malcanis Sure. Give me a web and scram that can fit in a high slot and you can have your implants. Contract at Jita 4-4 pls. ok...lets have a look on a gank-PvP (i would fit it this way) fitting for the Marus for example Kronos Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Medium Nosferatu II Medium Nosferatu II Medium Nosferatu II Ancillary Current Router I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Ogre II x3 Hammerhead II x5 it can Web, it can scram and with my skills i have a tank from 863 DPS by 14k HP (with a Slave set) and can do around 1070 DPS with Drones and it run stabil on cap for a long time ok, fine ship now the Golem Gravimetric Backup Array II Co-Processor II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II X-Large Shield Booster II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Medium Nosferatu II Medium Nosferatu II Medium Nosferatu II Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I Breserker SW-900 x3 or Ogre II x3 It can scram and web (with the drones) (imo a web ist needed ont his ship because its a missle boat and has 3 times the attackrange of the Kronos as example and missles have no tracking speed), and does it has nearly the same tank and damage output (tank 853/Damage 1070 with the ogres) and run stabil on cap the same time. Now give this thing a Crystal set and wush..you have a 1300 dpsTank...wtf?
DJ P	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:17:00 - [16] Slave implants are far superior to Crystal. What are we talking about then?
General Cane Federation of Synthetic Persons	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:32:00 - [17] cry baby cry... as shieldtank you cant tackle without hurting your tank. Sure you can tank like hell but you cant hold anything. Shieldtank = tank / damage Armortank = omgwtf solopwnmobile, tackle and... uhm yea you have a slave set, and you know what this imlants cost?!
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:39:00 - [18] Edited by: Ishina Fel on 11/01/2008 14:40:38 EFT warrior, are we? For starters, you're setting up short-range battleships without MWDs. You'll have trouble even gatecamping in that Kronos, because you'll be always out of range of everything. Furthermore, adding a MWD means you can't use a heavy injector on the Golem any more, even with dual grid rigs. That kills the big 1300 dps tank quite well... or the dps, because you could fit a RCU instead of a BCU. Or instead of the ECCM thingy. Then you'll get jammed too easily. You also have to toss out an invul field, bringing your 1300 down to 1000 even with perfect skills. Further, now your tank is not cap stable despite the heavy injector running all the time, even with the MWD off. Second, you seem to have no grasp of explosion velocity or explosion radius. With rage torpedos, you start losing damage when your target moves faster than 200 m/s. How was that with not needing a web? Okay, so you have drones for that. Then, you lose around 20% damage on the average battleship just due to them being too small. Targets below battleship size will take much, much less damage still. So you need a target painter. Which midslot will you sacrifice for this? Another invul down leaves you 730 dps tanked, even with all six crystal implants. Or, you can just live with dealing 650 dps vs. the Kronos' 1070... oh, and that's still with 2 BCU, and your sensor strength way down there. Third, you are hand-picking the single best active shield tanker in the game to illustrate the effects - the only non-capital ship in the game which has more than six midslots (ECM ships do not count), and even has a shield boost skill bonus to boot. Take any other ship than the Golem, any other, and the advantage of the crystals shrinks at an alarming rate. Are you still convinced that active shield tanks are all that useful in PvP? The one role where you would be using a crystal shield boost tank in PvP is in the role of a tank ship - a bait, if you will. A ship that, so you hope, makes the enemy try to kill it while your friends do the scrambling and webbing and painting for you. But then you are in a gang situation, which is one of two cases: 1.) you outnumber the opponents badly, likely ganking single ships; your tank does not matter. Or 2.) You are in a fight between gangs, where primaries are called and focus fire happens. Any active tank goes under in the face of many thousands of DPS. Only buffer tanks survive long enough to react. This is the realm of the slave implants for armor tankers.
Amuko Amarr Disturbed Amarrians	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:48:00 - [19] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Edelhonk Only a few thoughts about it There is only a Implant Set for Shieldtanks, not for Armortanks. Why? Shield tanks have many Advantages (passiv Tanking possible, faster Boost, when shield is down armor is still there to protect the hull for a time). Why they need another one? And pls dont try to tell me thinks like "Shield tanks are so much harder to fit" or "Shield tanks are so much more cap intens then armor tanks". If you try to bring such arguments you are a. to dumb to fit a ship correct or b. you play a other game then i do. Its so easy to fit shield tanks that are a. )able to tank the same amount of damage that a good fittet Armor tank can do and b.) do the same ammount of damage and run stabil on cap. So why is there a need to boost shield tanks even more? And when there is a reason, why is there no implant set that does the same for Armor tanks??? Sure. Give me a web and scram that can fit in a high slot and you can have your implants. Contract at Jita 4-4 pls. Ok fine, as soon as I get damage mods that fit in mids... See what I did there? Armor tanks and shield tanks both have to sacrifice tanking slots for decent pvp fits.
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.12 03:09:00 - [20] Originally by: Edelhonk Edited by: Edelhonk on 11/01/2008 14:03:10 Edited by: Edelhonk on 11/01/2008 14:01:06 Originally by: Malcanis Sure. Give me a web and scram that can fit in a high slot and you can have your implants. Contract at Jita 4-4 pls. ok...lets have a look on a gank-PvP (i would fit it this way) fitting for the Marus for example Kronos Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Medium Nosferatu II Medium Nosferatu II Medium Nosferatu II Ancillary Current Router I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Ogre II x3 Hammerhead II x5 it can Web, it can scram and with my skills i have a tank from 863 DPS by 14k HP (with a Slave set) and can do around 1070 DPS with Drones and it run stabil on cap for a long time ok, fine ship now the Golem Gravimetric Backup Array II Co-Processor II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II X-Large Shield Booster II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Medium Nosferatu II Medium Nosferatu II Medium Nosferatu II Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I Breserker SW-900 x3 or Ogre II x3 It can scram and web (with the drones) (imo a web ist needed ont his ship because its a missle boat and has 3 times the attackrange of the Kronos as example and missles have no tracking speed), and does it has nearly the same tank and damage output (tank 853/Damage 1070 with the ogres) and run stabil on cap the same time. Now give this thing a Crystal set and wush..you have a 1300 dpsTank...wtf? A damage control is better than the third EANM or a faction non energized resist (read: cheap). --------------------------------- Oh noes!
TA0	Posted - 2008.01.12 03:34:00 - [21] bah, expensive implants mean nothing... they are for peeps that have everything and have stupid amounts of money that they dont know what to do with it.. Implants mean nothing when you jump into a heavy dictor/dictor with web support such as a rapier or huggin.. thinking you have recon which turns out to be bad (talking from personal experiance) your better off getting faction mods, and fitting your ships well, than implants that are expensive for what they do.. imo... TA0
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.12 03:54:00 - [22] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 12/01/2008 03:54:22 Slaves for gang pvp. Cystals for 1v1 pvp. The JoJo has spoken! Though ZET crystal implants do sound intresting, they are some which are used by passive shield tankers. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(21 total)
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.12 04:01:00 - [23] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 12/01/2008 03:54:22 Ships using Crystal sets damage the fabric of the sub space foam at the Planck distance boundary which causes Amarr lasers to malfunction! More nerfs ffs! The JoJo has spoken! Fixed that for you bringing it more in line with your usual posts. ----------------------------------------------- My new years resolution is to give up nonconstructive posting
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.12 04:07:00 - [24] Shield tankers in general aren't popular in PvP for 1 major reason: no room for tackle gear for small scale pvp. For fleet pvp, no room for sensor boosters and tracking comps Shield tanking is way popular for NPCing, and crystals offer huge benefit for NPCing setups. In that sense, Ravens and the like will remain kings of NPCing. But we don't need to worry about crystals being too powerful for pvp situations because of those other short comings of shield tankers.
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.12 04:11:00 - [25] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 12/01/2008 03:54:22 Ships using Crystal sets damage the fabric of the sub space foam at the Planck distance boundary which causes Amarr lasers to malfunction! More nerfs ffs! The JoJo has spoken! Fixed that for you bringing it more in line with your usual posts. Actually - All of my posts are pretty much spot on - its people like you that make stuff up and pretend I wrote it. For example, the bit you quoted Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(21 total)
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.12 04:21:00 - [26] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 12/01/2008 03:54:22 Ships using Crystal sets damage the fabric of the sub space foam at the Planck distance boundary which causes Amarr lasers to malfunction! More nerfs ffs! The JoJo has spoken! Fixed that for you bringing it more in line with your usual posts. Actually - All of my posts are pretty much spot on - its people like you that make stuff up and pretend I wrote it. For example, the bit you quoted Sadly im not as creative as you are with the excuses ----------------------------------------------- My new years resolution is to give up nonconstructive posting
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.12 04:46:00 - [27] OP + Whiskey + beer = headache _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Malthros Zenobia The Cold Wind Foundation	Posted - 2008.01.12 05:19:00 - [28] Originally by: Edelhonk Only a few thoughts about it There is only a Implant Set for Shieldtanks, not for Armortanks. Why? Shield tanks have many Advantages (passiv Tanking possible, faster Boost, when shield is down armor is still there to protect the hull for a time). Why they need another one? And pls dont try to tell me thinks like "Shield tanks are so much harder to fit" or "Shield tanks are so much more cap intens then armor tanks". If you try to bring such arguments you are a. to dumb to fit a ship correct or b. you play a other game then i do. Its so easy to fit shield tanks that are a. )able to tank the same amount of damage that a good fittet Armor tank can do and b.) do the same ammount of damage and run stabil on cap. So why is there a need to boost shield tanks even more? And when there is a reason, why is there no implant set that does the same for Armor tanks??? Believe me when I tell you that you do not want crystals to work like slaves. Slaves are also better than crystals in that they affect capital ships, as crystals do not affect capital shield boosters. There are times soak is good, there are times that boost is good. Persoanlly I wouldn't mind seeing armor boost implants, and shield HP (shield regen penalty) implants for some extra diversity, however the armor and shield imps are made to be different, and they have their ups and downs. HG slaves also aren't nullified by killing cap. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.12 05:31:00 - [29] Lets just impliment some new sets then. One that grants shield tankers + percent amount. And a set that does what the crystal does but for armour tankers. Problem solved \o/
Triath Lon Keepers of Balance Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.01.12 06:03:00 - [30] Why are some people always looking for "unfair advantage" others have? Shield tanking is different from armor tanking. What unfair advantage do oranges have over apples? Gallente have 5 industrials, while others have less - unbalanced... and they have Ogre drones! So what if others can use Orges? Ogres are Gallente drones! We conclude, that due to the aforementioned facts Gallente have unfair advantage in both trade and combat! ________ Sig will, eventually, appear here.

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