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Carth Merrol	Posted - 2008.01.23 23:53:00 - [1] What's the main difference? Is it just that the Heavy Assault ships are way faster and more maneuverable, or what? Are there other advantages, or does the speed/agility make up for the decrease in survivability and firepower you get from using a heavy assault ship instead of a battleship. I.e., what's the appeal of heavy assault ships over battleships? And where do battlecruisers fall in this? Are they comparable to heavy assault ships? Better? Worse? The idea of a battlecruiser or heavy assault ship really appeals to me, but not if they can't really hold a candle to a battleship.
TimMc Gallente Vidar Fierd Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.24 00:15:00 - [2] Battleships outdamage the HACs by immense ammounts. Battleships have bigger tanks. Battleships require less skills, but need more to use proporly. HACs are quick and nimble. HACs have a small sig radius comparitively. HACs have huge tanks for their size. They proform different roles.
Carth Merrol	Posted - 2008.01.24 00:31:00 - [3] Originally by: TimMc Battleships outdamage the HACs by immense ammounts. Battleships have bigger tanks. Battleships require less skills, but need more to use proporly. HACs are quick and nimble. HACs have a small sig radius comparitively. HACs have huge tanks for their size. They proform different roles. And what roles would these be, kind sir? Battleships seem too slow for my taste.
Bosie Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.24 00:33:00 - [4] BS is the ship of the line for any large fleet. It's role is to kill the other BS'. HACs are more useful in smaller fights as they die very quickly in larger fights. "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND
Mizerik Grettistak	Posted - 2008.01.24 00:36:00 - [5] Battleship = DPS/Tank + Slow moving Roles: Fleet Ops, Sustained DPS, Tank HAC = DPS/Tank + Fast Deadly Roles - Oversized Interceptor/InterDictor, Burst DPS, Solo/Wolf Pack Hunter/Tank (Awesome Resists)
Commander Thrawn Fluffy Rabbit Killers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.24 01:10:00 - [6] small gangs = hacs large fleets, gate camps = BS
Belcour	Posted - 2008.01.24 02:59:00 - [7] Edited by: Belcour on 24/01/2008 02:59:52 I've been thinking of going HACs myself(Since I am Gallante, likely the Deimos). In a fleet battle, do they have a role?
Everyone Dies Caldari Lucky Tampon	Posted - 2008.01.24 03:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Belcour Edited by: Belcour on 24/01/2008 02:59:52 I've been thinking of going HACs myself(Since I am Gallante, likely the Deimos). In a fleet battle, do they have a role? deimos dies first after ew and logistics in fleet.
Enkilil Minmatar Carbon Moon Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.24 03:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Belcour I've been thinking of going HACs myself(Since I am Gallante, likely the Deimos). In a fleet battle, do they have a role? Yes, a very good one! The role of a Deimos is extreme dps dealer. Blasters / MWD in guns a'blazin. with 5x T2 medium scout drones and T2 Neutrons w/ magstabs, you'll be pushing out a LOT of dps, disputably more than any other HAC on the field. This will get you called primary pretty quickly however (as already mentioned). Depending on how your fleet / gang is set up, it's best left to you to determine what you'd rather have; ie: more gank and less tank, or vice versa. With the right skills and fittings, you can pull an acceptable tank out of it while still pushing out a lot of blaster damage.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.01.24 04:24:00 - [10] Hac vs bs goes to bs but bs vs Command ship is a different story

Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 05:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Hac vs bs goes to bs but bs vs Command ship is a different story BS would pwn any CS, assuming both pilots are competent and the bs is a short range fit.
Grytok moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.01.24 10:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Hac vs bs goes to bs but bs vs Command ship is a different story BS would pwn any CS, assuming both pilots are competent and the bs is a short range fit. This. HACs are good for smaller, roaming gangs, as they are more agil and can pick their fights. In fleets they're often used as Anti-Support, with long-range-setups most likely (Eagle, Zealot, Muninn). BC/CS have their role most likely in medium sized roaming gangs. For fleets only the Fleet Command Ships are usable, due to their gang-mods. BS are fleet-ships. . CCP gave us shiny new graphics. Too bad they removed Anti Aliasing for me :\
swordz	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:04:00 - [13] so for someone who is looking to get into PvP in a small gang or solo where would my time and skill points be better spent working on my battleships skills which are getting there as now fly a navy raven in lv4's or start working on my HAC skills for solo small group work ?
Ikonz Hyrule Corp	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:11:00 - [14] Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank.
Nuclear Warrior	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank. And thats why every ishtar ever flown by a non-noob is a MWD+nano ishtar =)
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:50:00 - [17] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/01/2008 11:53:03 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank. I think he's talking about PvE, LOL. Ikonz, PvE performance has absolutely nothing to do with PvP performance, and, just like EvE, ships & modules is about PvP. Unless specified otherwise in thread title Originally by: Nuclear Warrior And thats why every ishtar ever flown by a non-noob is a MWD+nano ishtar =) Frankly, I don't see a lot of point in HACs unless you are going to nano them (or unless it's a Diemost, which I just can't see a point in). BCs offer more bang for the buck (and often outright more bang), making me wonder if (at least semi) nano configurations were the intended way to fly HACs. It sure appears that way Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/01/2008 11:53:03 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank. I think he's talking about PvE, LOL. Ikonz, PvE performance has absolutely nothing to do with PvP performance, and, just like EvE, ships & modules is about PvP. Unless specified otherwise in thread title Originally by: Nuclear Warrior And thats why every ishtar ever flown by a non-noob is a MWD+nano ishtar =) Frankly, I don't see a lot of point in HACs unless you are going to nano them (or unless it's a Diemost, which I just can't see a point in). BCs offer more bang for the buck (and often outright more bang), making me wonder if (at least semi) nano configurations were the intended way to fly HACs. It sure appears that way HACs make excellent support ship killers..... --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Ikonz Hyrule Corp	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank. That was a mission setup. I haven't seen armor go beyond 90% ever in the abovementioned missions.
Andreask14 Alterum - Infinitus - Fabula Dragons Of Oceans	Posted - 2008.01.24 12:03:00 - [20] BS are for goons and Hacs are for BOBs.

Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.24 12:12:00 - [21] Edited by: Andrue on 24/01/2008 12:14:36 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Hac vs bs goes to bs but bs vs Command ship is a different story BS would pwn any CS, assuming both pilots are competent and the bs is a short range fit. Nah. Stalemate. I've done tests. My corp mate's CNR could only take my semipassive tanked NH by NOSing it. Without the NOS he couldn't get my shields below 60%. I've had a harder time with mission rats, lol. Of course on the flipside my missiles were doing nothing particularly nasty to his shields either. A competent NH pilot would stay out of NOS range which given the speed difference and the fact that I can hit things up to 74km away isn't a problem. A passive tanked NH wouldn't even have to worry about NOS and could probably still soak the damage up. The real issue would be in the cost. Ignoring faction BS a BS wins because it's so cheap. Losing a NH would be painful. Losing a Raven would be a minor nuisance :) -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.24 12:17:00 - [22] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/01/2008 12:18:36 Originally by: Andrue Nah. Stalemate. I've done tests. My corp mate's CNR could only take my semipassive tanked NH by NOSing it. Well, taking it down is not a stalemate. Furthermore, I highly doubt you had a, like, distruptor installed? Originally by: Andrue A competent NH pilot would stay out of NOS range which given the speed difference and the fact that I can hit things up to 74km away isn't a problem. Yeah, hit things 74 km away, but can you scram 74km away, too? T2 distruptors have the same range as heavy neutralisers. Originally by: Ikonz That was a mission setup. I haven't seen armor go beyond 90% ever in the abovementioned missions. Mission setups in a HAC thread in ships and modules, regarding ship class performance? It's almost trolling Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.24 13:13:00 - [23] Originally by: Nuclear Warrior Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank. And thats why every ishtar ever flown by a non-noob is a MWD+nano ishtar =) A battleship with a heavy neut will still force you out of range or kill you.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 13:19:00 - [24] Edited by: Gamesguy on 24/01/2008 13:20:36 Edited by: Gamesguy on 24/01/2008 13:19:40 Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 24/01/2008 12:14:36 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Hac vs bs goes to bs but bs vs Command ship is a different story BS would pwn any CS, assuming both pilots are competent and the bs is a short range fit. Nah. Stalemate. I've done tests. My corp mate's CNR could only take my semipassive tanked NH by NOSing it. Without the NOS he couldn't get my shields below 60%. I've had a harder time with mission rats, lol. Of course on the flipside my missiles were doing nothing particularly nasty to his shields either. A competent NH pilot would stay out of NOS range which given the speed difference and the fact that I can hit things up to 74km away isn't a problem. A passive tanked NH wouldn't even have to worry about NOS and could probably still soak the damage up. The real issue would be in the cost. Ignoring faction BS a BS wins because it's so cheap. Losing a NH would be painful. Losing a Raven would be a minor nuisance :) A passive tanked NH is about as worthless as a passive tanked drake. Make pretend 1v1 "fights' with your corp mates is not pvp. In any kind of realistic pvp setup, BS>>> CS. CS have their role, but killing battleships is not one of them. EDIT: Oh and a neut domi would eat you alive, actually any BS with a heavy neut would.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 13:21:00 - [25] Originally by: Ikonz Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank. That was a mission setup. I haven't seen armor go beyond 90% ever in the abovementioned missions. And you bring this up in a thread about pvp setups because....
Taliac Caldari Soliders Of Eve The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.24 13:32:00 - [26] Edited by: Taliac on 24/01/2008 13:32:36 a passivr tanked Vulture can tank any bs (maybe not a fully ganked mega). While keeping a point on it. Any bs that does less than 1000 dps is going too have problems. And since it's passive it will last forever. EDIT And if the bs runs equals too lose anyway so^^
Shiodome Caldari Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2008.01.24 13:37:00 - [27] both have strong points and a close match... except for BS's fitting heavy nuets, which tips things waaaaay in thier favour. _____________________________________ today i am this cool: [uncool]================[*]====[cool]
Raxxius Maelstrom	Posted - 2008.01.24 14:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/01/2008 11:53:03 Frankly, I don't see a lot of point in HACs unless you are going to nano them (or unless it's a Diemost, which I just can't see a point in). BCs offer more bang for the buck (and often outright more bang), making me wonder if (at least semi) nano configurations were the intended way to fly HACs. It sure appears that way I don't really think they were, its more the evolution of the current mechanics, Min Maxing that occurs in all PvP games, and the introduction of tier 2 BCs which offer a cheaper, yet still highly effective role.
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr Ordo Ministorum MERCURY RISING.	Posted - 2008.01.24 14:48:00 - [29] Puts on Flame resistant suit Folks, TBH the title thread says nothing about PvP or PvE, though I admit that the OP is likely talking about PvP. Personally I'm training up for a HAC atm, I'm tired of running Lvl4's in a Battleship (Mega) and an alliance m8 often gangs with me in an Ishtar and the very high resists + smaller sig of HAC's make them seem like a good idea for lvl4 missions. OFC CC's are also another option for Lvl4 mission runninig. Often run them in small gangs for fun n' giggles and the uber tank of a HAC makes a great 'warp in 1st and get room aggro, rest of you warp in and gank' kinda setup. One Empire, One Emperor, One People, Forever under Heaven. Amarr Aeternus.
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.01.24 15:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig Puts on Flame resistant suit Folks, TBH the title thread says nothing about PvP or PvE, though I admit that the OP is likely talking about PvP. Personally I'm training up for a HAC atm, I'm tired of running Lvl4's in a Battleship (Mega) and an alliance m8 often gangs with me in an Ishtar and the very high resists + smaller sig of HAC's make them seem like a good idea for lvl4 missions. OFC CC's are also another option for Lvl4 mission runninig. Often run them in small gangs for fun n' giggles and the uber tank of a HAC makes a great 'warp in 1st and get room aggro, rest of you warp in and gank' kinda setup. PVE stuff goes in missions and exploration though. Besides, PVE is kinda hard to get a bad fit, unless you are just trying to be stupid. Tank/Gank/Guns. Isn't very difficult

Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 23:35:00 - [31] Originally by: Taliac Edited by: Taliac on 24/01/2008 13:32:36 a passivr tanked Vulture can tank any bs (maybe not a fully ganked mega). While keeping a point on it. Any bs that does less than 1000 dps is going too have problems. And since it's passive it will last forever. EDIT And if the bs runs equals too lose anyway so^^ Plated gank geddon with a neut could probably kill a vulture eventually, just will take a while. Passive tanked vulture cannot disengage(no mwd), cannot maintain a point on anything except a dread(carrier would just neut the point off). Its really quite useless outside of lowsec gate piracy and running gang mods/sniping support in fleet.
Panteroid The Hoodie Mafia Cosa Nostra.	Posted - 2008.01.25 02:39:00 - [32] I would have to say that anymore in eve, BS > HAC. Obviously there are exceptions.... For example, I would take my nano-ishtar vs any battleship that I didn't think could catch me (all but a Mach). And I would either win everytime, or the target has just too much tank, in which case I would just call help or burn off. For the most part this goes for the Vagabond as well. These two and a few other random setups are the wildcards. As far as the person who thinks that any decent BS pilot > any decent CS pilot. You are dearly mistaken. Astarte w/ECM drones = teH sEx! Proper setup sleipnir = no chance for any BS that can't hit 2.5 km/s, or that doesn't have a couple neuts.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 03:08:00 - [33] Originally by: Panteroid I would have to say that anymore in eve, BS > HAC. Obviously there are exceptions.... For example, I would take my nano-ishtar vs any battleship that I didn't think could catch me (all but a Mach). And I would either win everytime, or the target has just too much tank, in which case I would just call help or burn off. For the most part this goes for the Vagabond as well. These two and a few other random setups are the wildcards. As far as the person who thinks that any decent BS pilot > any decent CS pilot. You are dearly mistaken. Astarte w/ECM drones = teH sEx! Proper setup sleipnir = no chance for any BS that can't hit 2.5 km/s, or that doesn't have a couple neuts. Wrong. BS can and often do fit ECM drones as well, and they have higher sensor str than CS, an astarte is no match for a mega. Sleipnir can be easilly tracked by BS guns when its mwding. I've seen 5km/s sleips get driven off by BS because BS guns easilly track it while its orbitting.
Carth Merrol	Posted - 2008.01.25 07:15:00 - [34] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Panteroid I would have to say that anymore in eve, BS > HAC. Obviously there are exceptions.... For example, I would take my nano-ishtar vs any battleship that I didn't think could catch me (all but a Mach). And I would either win everytime, or the target has just too much tank, in which case I would just call help or burn off. For the most part this goes for the Vagabond as well. These two and a few other random setups are the wildcards. As far as the person who thinks that any decent BS pilot > any decent CS pilot. You are dearly mistaken. Astarte w/ECM drones = teH sEx! Proper setup sleipnir = no chance for any BS that can't hit 2.5 km/s, or that doesn't have a couple neuts. Wrong. BS can and often do fit ECM drones as well, and they have higher sensor str than CS, an astarte is no match for a mega. Sleipnir can be easilly tracked by BS guns when its mwding. I've seen 5km/s sleips get driven off by BS because BS guns easilly track it while its orbitting. This may be noobish of me, but how is a battleship/something battleship sized getting up to 5km/s, even with a MWD?
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 08:07:00 - [35] Originally by: Carth Merrol Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Panteroid I would have to say that anymore in eve, BS > HAC. Obviously there are exceptions.... For example, I would take my nano-ishtar vs any battleship that I didn't think could catch me (all but a Mach). And I would either win everytime, or the target has just too much tank, in which case I would just call help or burn off. For the most part this goes for the Vagabond as well. These two and a few other random setups are the wildcards. As far as the person who thinks that any decent BS pilot > any decent CS pilot. You are dearly mistaken. Astarte w/ECM drones = teH sEx! Proper setup sleipnir = no chance for any BS that can't hit 2.5 km/s, or that doesn't have a couple neuts. Wrong. BS can and often do fit ECM drones as well, and they have higher sensor str than CS, an astarte is no match for a mega. Sleipnir can be easilly tracked by BS guns when its mwding. I've seen 5km/s sleips get driven off by BS because BS guns easilly track it while its orbitting. This may be noobish of me, but how is a battleship/something battleship sized getting up to 5km/s, even with a MWD? Sleipnir can do it with a LG snake set+speed hardwirings and/or skirmish warfare gang mod. Without the snake set or gang mods it hits around 3.5km/sec when kitted for speed(ie polys, overdrives, and speed hard wirings). A macheriel can hit 4km/s with just t2 fittings, its actually faster.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.25 10:22:00 - [36] Edited by: Andrue on 25/01/2008 10:25:28 Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/01/2008 12:18:36 Originally by: Andrue Nah. Stalemate. I've done tests. My corp mate's CNR could only take my semipassive tanked NH by NOSing it. Well, taking it down is not a stalemate. Furthermore, I highly doubt you had a, like, distruptor installed? Originally by: Andrue A competent NH pilot would stay out of NOS range which given the speed difference and the fact that I can hit things up to 74km away isn't a problem. Yeah, hit things 74 km away, but can you scram 74km away, too? T2 distruptors have the same range as heavy neutralisers. Originally by: Ikonz That was a mission setup. I haven't seen armor go beyond 90% ever in the abovementioned missions. Mission setups in a HAC thread in ships and modules, regarding ship class performance? It's almost trolling Not at all. I'm making the point that my competent PvP oriented corp mate in his CNR couldn't take me down unless I let him. Same in reverse, hence 'stalemate'. I can't claim whether this is true for any BS/CS combination but it's enough to convince me that a sweeping statement that BS>CS is innaccurate. A pair of competent pilots in appropriately fitted ships will, in my opinion, spar for a few minutes then agree to go their separate ways. Either that or they exchange pleasantries in local, laugh at themselves and go off in opposite directions to find better prey. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.25 10:27:00 - [37] Originally by: Gamesguy Make pretend 1v1 "fights' with your corp mates is not pvp. In any kind of realistic pvp setup, BS>>> CS. CS have their role, but killing battleships is not one of them. Ah. So you don't understand the meaning of the word 'stalemate' then? Try looking it up sometime. I never said that a CS could take down a BS. In fact I specifically stated that it couldn't. Reading comprehension is a wonderful skill. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:02:00 - [38] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/01/2008 11:05:28 Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Gamesguy Make pretend 1v1 "fights' with your corp mates is not pvp. In any kind of realistic pvp setup, BS>>> CS. CS have their role, but killing battleships is not one of them. Ah. So you don't understand the meaning of the word 'stalemate' then? Try looking it up sometime. I never said that a CS could take down a BS. In fact I specifically stated that it couldn't. Reading comprehension is a wonderful skill. Did you have a disturptor on you (which reduces your tank)? Did you, in fact, have a realistic PvP setup? PvE setups typically tank better. Also, practically everything will track a Sleipnir. People are forgetting signature radius when MWD-ing; a Sleipnir has the sig radius of a small bloody moon. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:33:00 - [39] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Gamesguy Make pretend 1v1 "fights' with your corp mates is not pvp. In any kind of realistic pvp setup, BS>>> CS. CS have their role, but killing battleships is not one of them. Ah. So you don't understand the meaning of the word 'stalemate' then? Try looking it up sometime. I never said that a CS could take down a BS. In fact I specifically stated that it couldn't. Reading comprehension is a wonderful skill. Did you have a warp disruptor fitted? How about gang mods? What about tracking mods/sensor boosters? Or was the entire purpose of your vulture is to tank and be useless in pvp? A pure passive tanked vulture is completely and utterly worthless. You do no dps, you cant snipe support(which is one of its roles), you're not running gangmods, I'd rather have a tackler in a rifter than you in that vulture. Make believe 1v1s between a CNR(lul) and a passive tanked vulture is utterly ********. Did either of you have a even semi-useful pvp setup? Yes, 1v1 a bs and a fully tanked CS that do nothing but tank will end in stalemate. Too bad a fully tanked CS is about as useful as an ibis in actual pvp. Even a cyno damnation can tackle, what can you do in that vulture?
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:34:00 - [40] Originally by: Andrue A pair of competent pilots in appropriately fitted ships will, in my opinion, spar for a few minutes then agree to go their separate ways. Either that or they exchange pleasantries in local, laugh at themselves and go off in opposite directions to find better prey. You dont pvp do you.

Algey The Littlest Hobos Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:37:00 - [41] Edited by: Algey on 25/01/2008 13:37:02 Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 25/01/2008 10:25:28 A pair of competent pilots in appropriately fitted ships will, in my opinion, spar for a few minutes then agree to go their separate ways. Either that or they exchange pleasantries in local, laugh at themselves and go off in opposite directions to find better prey. No, what will happen is that the vulture of tankyness will have a point put on him while people run in from the surrounding systems. The solo ship will align, slightly unbothered by your lack of a point. If your friends get there first he'll disengage and you cannot do a thing about it. If his friends get there first you'll find your pod sat right in the middle of a bubble.
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:45:00 - [42] A Battleship outpreforms a hac on everything but speed and agility. *signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected]) EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Trojanman190 Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:55:00 - [43] All it takes to kill a command ship is a heavy neut. If you are in a decent setup and somewhat know how to pvp, the best fit commandship, 1 on 1, should not give you a lot of trouble. I know my dual rep pest setup can easily tank a neutron mega so I am doubtful any cs could break the tank while itself tanking and being hit with a neut. The cap 800s will give out at some point. I think the key to any smaller ship going against a bigger ship (at least when they are both experienced pilots and well setup) is that the smaller ship cannot go toe to toe in a damage / tank fight with the bigger one. You have to do something clever like kite them, ewar them or something of the like. Of course commandships have smoked battleships before. A poorly setup bs can die to a well setup t1 battlecruiser, happens all the time. Just before you take your cs against a battleship I would venture a guess as to what the bs is fitting... I don't leave home without the neut. As for the roles of these ships... hacs, cruisers, battlecruisers, cs and battleships... Screw all this role stuff. Of COURSE they have their roles. But seriously... is that why most people fly them? Its an epeen thing. Its pretty sexy killing people in a commandship or a hac, even if setting up a t1 ship can get almost the same effect for a lot less cash. Driving a honda to work will get you to work. Driving a Ferrari will get you there in style. Also, there is an intimidation fact. When you see a group of 5 stabbers... are you worried? Probably not. When you see a fleet of 5 hugins, or 5 vagabonds, or 5 ishtars... are you a bit more concerned? Almost definitely. When you are strolling around in your battleship and you meet another battleship... the only way to tell how good he is by looking at his age and guessing. He could have just stepped into that ship or he could have been flying it for ages. He could be fully t2 or he could be sporting ab all t1 setup. It could be the easiest bs kill of your life or it could be the toughest fight you have ever had in eve. You just don't know. When that target is a command ship... you can pretty much be assured that it's AT LEAST t2 fitted and the pilot knows what he is doing. /End Textwall
Hyakuchan Earth Federation Space Force	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:24:00 - [44] Can a CS/HAC defeat a battleship? Conditionally, yes. Can 10 CS/HACs defeat 10 battleships? Generally, no. That's the difference between the two.
Khorian Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:58:00 - [45] Theory and practical expirience are two different pair of shoes. There will always be situations where HaC/CS will beat BS and vice versa. It's just a matter of preference, I prefer smaller more agile ships over Battlehips. I love flying Deimos, no matter that people call it Diemost (grrr). I fly it because it's awesome cool Deimos Pilots probably see themselves as some kind of Kamikaze Pilots ---
Dreadmuppet Four	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:12:00 - [46] one important difference that is worth remembering is that a battleship can be close to 100% insured whereas with a command ship or a HAC the insurance is absolute rubbish.
Kel Solaar	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:56:00 - [47] Originally by: Dreadmuppet Four one important difference that is worth remembering is that a battleship can be close to 100% insured whereas with a command ship or a HAC the insurance is absolute rubbish. This. Your BS die, Ok u loose your fit and insurance. Your CS or HAC die, you loose everything. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kuseka Adama Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.01.25 18:03:00 - [48] Originally by: Kel Solaar Originally by: Dreadmuppet Four one important difference that is worth remembering is that a battleship can be close to 100% insured whereas with a command ship or a HAC the insurance is absolute rubbish. This. Your BS die, Ok u loose your fit and insurance. Your CS or HAC die, you loose everything. This is true. Do not fly a CS or HAC right out of the box. Get it to your base of operations fit it use it only in defense. Get another. THEN you can go hunting. I am looking at an Ishtar. Which i will basically use primarilly as a home system defense weapon until i can afford another. Command ships require even more specific fits and typically will run the price of a blackops unfitted (500 mill plus) if you seek out perfect gear. That is another reason why battleships are a better deal than HAC's. HAC's can own faces and are great for harrassment and solo pvp. But They have a nasty cost. Make sure you use one properly.
Semkhet Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 18:19:00 - [49] Edited by: Semkhet on 25/01/2008 18:25:27 If you are relatively new to the game and PvP in general, and you train mainly the Gallente skill tree, as HAC IMHO you should go for an Ishtar. Try to form a small gang with a few of your friends, and don't attempt to tackle. Leave this aspect to ceptors or a HIC. Take great care not to operate under the range of neuts (up to 29 Km for heavies on battleships, way more for curses). Fit a few drone links to get some breathing space, and a few drone nav comps to compensate the range by increasing your drones mwd speed. That way you will be able to inflict damage sitting far away at the beginning, and you can slowly by slowly get closer as you become more familiarized with engagements, procedures & tactics. Going closer, you will be able to replace drone mods with other stuff if you wish. Populate your drone bay with a mix of med & small drones. Don't take the ship out with low skills, just be patient until you can enjoy the full potential of the ship and setup/weapons you opted for before risking your gear on the field. If you want to practice PvP as beginner, do it in a T1 setup on a Vexor as close as possible to what you plan to use on the Ishtar. It will save you quite a bit of money and allow you to make a better use of your Ishtar once you feel confident enough to field it. Bottom line: give time to time, and don't forget that every screw up can be positive if you don't make the same mistake twice. GL
Lil Mule	Posted - 2008.01.25 18:42:00 - [50] It looks like this thread has been well answered a number of times thus far, but being the opinionated loud mouthed bastard that I am, Ive got to chime in my two cents. From my perspective the difference is the following: For a BS you can fly it much sooner than a HAC, however you probably shouldnt. I made the mistake in my n00b days of flying a BS as soon as I had the minimum skills to do so, which caused me a lot of losses and frustration. When you finally have the skills to fly a BS well, its a wonderful thing, but they are not designed for PVP unless its a fleet op. I can generally speaking tank 2-3 HACS on my BS (yes Ive done this in PVP and this is not theory or a test with corp mates), however the problem is, once you've got 2-3 HACS on you, even though you can tank them, chances are your going to die anyway because they will call in support. While I can kill 2-3 HAC's with my BS, it takes some time due to the Nano factor, and also because in most cases they are NOT n00b pilots with crap fittings. Nano HAC gangs can move fast from a number of jumps away, as opposed to BS's which lumber along. As pointed out many times above HAC's are ideal for small fast moving gangs to take down small, medium and in some cases large targets. They can also be used to kill support in large fleet ops. If your opposing fleet has small ship support, often times the HACS's etc will be sent in first to start engaging the support so the BS's dont get bubbled by dictors and otherwise tied down by annoyances. Would I reccomend flying a HAC? Absolutely, great fun. Would I reccomend flying a BS? Absolutely, its also fun. I find in Sniper BS situations in particular it can be quite a bit more boring because some times your waiting around to be called to align to engage, or told to wait at the POS if your hostiles outnumber you. Your kind of stuck there and you cant move around much because you simply dont have the agility - however your value to the fleet is immense. Which would I take to a fleet op? Probably a Sniper BS Which would I take on PVP excercises and small skirmishes? HAC or Force Recon. ----------------------------------------------- People enjoy flying Amarr for the same reason they like being tied up in leather, whipped and called names

Khorian Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.01.25 18:55:00 - [51] Edited by: Khorian on 25/01/2008 18:58:26 Yes, I forgot to mention that HaCs are also an ideal stepping stone on the way up to becoming a good BS pilot. I say this every time threads like these come up. All the skills you need to fly a HAC well you will need for BS later anyway. Energy Skills Electronics Gunnery Navigation Drones But especially the medium T2 turrets are required anyway on the way to T2 Large turrets, wich should be a requirement to be a good BS pilot. (yes the large turrets take a while to train but they are well worth it, due to superior T2 ammo) EDIT: Also, an important aspect to maybe flying BS over HaC as a newcomer (with T2 turrets) is that flying a Fleet BS is realtively easy and relaxing. You get your orders and gun the targets down. Thats great to get into fleet fights. A HaC would require some more thinking on your part, even in massive fleet battles, since you get to pick your own targets and should be smart about it. I would say flying support on massive fleet ops is much more dangerous than flying a fleet BS. ---
Semkhet Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:04:00 - [52] Originally by: Trojanman190 All it takes to kill a command ship is a heavy neut. If you are in a decent setup and somewhat know how to pvp, the best fit commandship, 1 on 1, should not give you a lot of trouble. I know my dual rep pest setup can easily tank a neutron mega so I am doubtful any cs could break the tank while itself tanking and being hit with a neut. The cap 800s will give out at some point. I think the key to any smaller ship going against a bigger ship (at least when they are both experienced pilots and well setup) is that the smaller ship cannot go toe to toe in a damage / tank fight with the bigger one. You have to do something clever like kite them, ewar them or something of the like. Of course commandships have smoked battleships before. A poorly setup bs can die to a well setup t1 battlecruiser, happens all the time. Just before you take your cs against a battleship I would venture a guess as to what the bs is fitting... I don't leave home without the neut. As for the roles of these ships... hacs, cruisers, battlecruisers, cs and battleships... Screw all this role stuff. Of COURSE they have their roles. But seriously... is that why most people fly them? Its an epeen thing. Its pretty sexy killing people in a commandship or a hac, even if setting up a t1 ship can get almost the same effect for a lot less cash. Driving a honda to work will get you to work. Driving a Ferrari will get you there in style. Also, there is an intimidation fact. When you see a group of 5 stabbers... are you worried? Probably not. When you see a fleet of 5 hugins, or 5 vagabonds, or 5 ishtars... are you a bit more concerned? Almost definitely. When you are strolling around in your battleship and you meet another battleship... the only way to tell how good he is by looking at his age and guessing. He could have just stepped into that ship or he could have been flying it for ages. He could be fully t2 or he could be sporting ab all t1 setup. It could be the easiest bs kill of your life or it could be the toughest fight you have ever had in eve. You just don't know. When that target is a command ship... you can pretty much be assured that it's AT LEAST t2 fitted and the pilot knows what he is doing. /End Textwall I had a funny engagement last year. Got aggroed in a 0.4 or 0.3 after jumping in by an Arma & Drake. I was just moving my Abso (TS disruptor, injector, 85% res omni tank with dual reps, etc...) I will never understand why they did it. With the added dps of the sentries, they just melted (despite a partial T2 fit). I suppose the combined dps was close to 1K, and taking into account that the sentries weren't probably doing more than 400 dps, the fraction of support dps you need to break a tank when you field a CS isn't so critical as long you aren't neuted, track disrupted or jammed to hell and back. Against a single BS (what seldom happens anyhow), two hvy neuts are manageable for a CS. They cycle in 24 seconds for a total combined drain of 1200 cap, and if you are injecting with 800 charges, meanwhile you inject 1600. The difference still allows to launch two repper cycles (320 cap). So in fact the question is reduced to being able to break the BS tank before burning all your charges. Sometimes the BS will win, sometimes the CS. It all boils down to sp's, fits and experience. And here we get the point: a T1 fit can be either gank or tank. But some T2 fits can do both at the same time
ElCholo Minmatar The SMITE Brotherhood Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:14:00 - [53] Originally by: Trojanman190 ... stuff ... Of course commandships have smoked battleships before. A poorly setup bs can die to a well setup t1 cruiser, happens all the time. Just before you take your cs against a battleship I would venture a guess as to what the bs is fitting... I don't leave home without the neut. ... stuff ... /End Textwall fixed that line for ya
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:23:00 - [54] Originally by: Khorian Edited by: Khorian on 25/01/2008 18:58:26 EDIT: Also, an important aspect to maybe flying BS over HaC as a newcomer (with T2 turrets) is that flying a Fleet BS is realtively easy and relaxing. You get your orders and gun the targets down. Thats great to get into fleet fights. A HaC would require some more thinking on your part, even in massive fleet battles, since you get to pick your own targets and should be smart about it. I would say flying support on massive fleet ops is much more dangerous than flying a fleet BS. I'd tend to agree with this. In a fleet battleship it's a game of russian roulette where you shoot until your number is up. In a support ship (scorpion for example) you WILL be called primary the instant the FC notices you and has ships in position to stop you. Not to mention many support ships are rather lacking in their tank (my scorp basically has a buffer to HOPEFULLY buy me time to jump out before I melt). Either way though, in larger fleet battles "survival time" is only moderately determined by your skill, SP, ship choice, tank or gank - it's only a matter of hoping you don't get called as primary and if you do, hope your buffer is thick enough to make the jump. (Though I suppose if you're flying around in an Ibis with your civillian gattling rail gun and whatnot, you'll probably be just about the last one alive since there is no need to shoot at you). Smaller gangs, certain ship classes will be called first (megathrons as an example, ravens as another) because removing them has a dramatic effect on DPS output of the fleet. Ships with notoriously tough tanks like Drakes and Abbadons seem to be much further on the list given the amount of time it takes to pop them.
Xaen Caldari Black Podding	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:26:00 - [55] Originally by: Trojanman190 All it takes to kill a command ship is a heavy neut. If you are in a decent setup and somewhat know how to pvp, the best fit commandship, 1 on 1, should not give you a lot of trouble. I know my dual rep pest setup can easily tank a neutron mega so I am doubtful any cs could break the tank while itself tanking and being hit with a neut. The cap 800s will give out at some point. I think the key to any smaller ship going against a bigger ship (at least when they are both experienced pilots and well setup) is that the smaller ship cannot go toe to toe in a damage / tank fight with the bigger one. You have to do something clever like kite them, ewar them or something of the like. Of course commandships have smoked battleships before. A poorly setup bs can die to a well setup t1 battlecruiser, happens all the time. Just before you take your cs against a battleship I would venture a guess as to what the bs is fitting... I don't leave home without the neut. As for the roles of these ships... hacs, cruisers, battlecruisers, cs and battleships... Screw all this role stuff. Of COURSE they have their roles. But seriously... is that why most people fly them? Its an epeen thing. Its pretty sexy killing people in a commandship or a hac, even if setting up a t1 ship can get almost the same effect for a lot less cash. Driving a honda to work will get you to work. Driving a Ferrari will get you there in style. Also, there is an intimidation fact. When you see a group of 5 stabbers... are you worried? Probably not. When you see a fleet of 5 hugins, or 5 vagabonds, or 5 ishtars... are you a bit more concerned? Almost definitely. When you are strolling around in your battleship and you meet another battleship... the only way to tell how good he is by looking at his age and guessing. He could have just stepped into that ship or he could have been flying it for ages. He could be fully t2 or he could be sporting ab all t1 setup. It could be the easiest bs kill of your life or it could be the toughest fight you have ever had in eve. You just don't know. When that target is a command ship... you can pretty much be assured that it's AT LEAST t2 fitted and the pilot knows what he is doing. /End Textwall Thread winner. If you're new, read this. If you're not new and think he's wrong, read it again. For once, every thing a poster said is right and I don't have much to add. o7, Torjanman190 -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Panteroid The Hoodie Mafia Cosa Nostra.	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:31:00 - [56] Originally by: Gamesguy Wrong. BS can and often do fit ECM drones as well, and they have higher sensor str than CS, an astarte is no match for a mega. Sleipnir can be easilly tracked by BS guns when its mwding. I've seen 5km/s sleips get driven off by BS because BS guns easilly track it while its orbitting. Interesting.. I find a few errors here as well. CS do have higher sensor strength than a NON-Sensor boosted bs. Unless you are fighting something that has a few spare midslots, you will lock him faster. And if he does have a sensor booster, his setup has to have a flaw. Not to mention.. only a few bs pilots even carry ecm drones.. the ones that do seem to still use the combat drones they brought. Now maybe this was just a setup I used, but on my old sleipnir.. I fitted for speed and little tank. Almost 100% of the time (bar gate camping) I fitted a tracking disruptor. So if you are now going to come back and tell me a true speed fitted Sleip can be hit by a tracking disrupted.... ANYTHING, then you sir are nuts. In the event you decide to find error in the ishtar, I ALWAYS fit a TD on it as well.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.01.25 21:01:00 - [57] Edited by: Trevor Warps on 25/01/2008 21:01:43 Originally by: Panteroid Interesting.. I find a few errors here as well. CS do have higher sensor strength than a NON-Sensor boosted bs. Unless you are fighting something that has a few spare midslots, you will lock him faster. And if he does have a sensor booster, his setup has to have a flaw. Not to mention.. only a few bs pilots even carry ecm drones.. the ones that do seem to still use the combat drones they brought. Now maybe this was just a setup I used, but on my old sleipnir.. I fitted for speed and little tank. Almost 100% of the time (bar gate camping) I fitted a tracking disruptor. So if you are now going to come back and tell me a true speed fitted Sleip can be hit by a tracking disrupted.... ANYTHING, then you sir are nuts. In the event you decide to find error in the ishtar, I ALWAYS fit a TD on it as well. lol ... You found errors ? Oh you did ? Let me laugh. You might go back to the academy to learn that sensor boosters and sensor strenghts aren't related the least bit. A sensor booster won't help agaisnt ecm ... and a sensor booster wont help much in a BS - CS fight ... Also ... a tracking disrupted missile boat will hit your sleipnir no probs, with the right missiles.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.26 00:03:00 - [58] Originally by: Panteroid Interesting.. I find a few errors here as well. CS do have higher sensor strength than a NON-Sensor boosted bs. Unless you are fighting something that has a few spare midslots, you will lock him faster. And if he does have a sensor booster, his setup has to have a flaw. Go back to eve uni and learn about ECM first. Your sensor strength has nothing to do with how fast you lock something. And yes, battleships have higher sensor strength than command ships. Case in point, mega has 21, and astarte 18. Quote: Not to mention.. only a few bs pilots even carry ecm drones.. the ones that do seem to still use the combat drones they brought. Then stop fighting noob opponents. Bar the mega/geddon, many, many BS pilots in my alliance uses ecm drones. Although when we do an RR gang its usually logistics drones. Quote: Now maybe this was just a setup I used, but on my old sleipnir.. I fitted for speed and little tank. Almost 100% of the time (bar gate camping) I fitted a tracking disruptor. So if you are now going to come back and tell me a true speed fitted Sleip can be hit by a tracking disrupted.... ANYTHING, then you sir are nuts. Yes it can, you're the one thats delusional. Have you ever even pvped in that sleipnir? Against competent opponents? Medium guns(even with t2 long range ammo's tracking penalty) track nano-hacs perfectly fine, and a sleipnir only has oh twice the sig radius. So at the very minimum you WILL be tracked by cruisers and other BCs. A tempest using longer ranged t1 ammo will track a nano-hac reasonably well(no tracking mods), a geddon with a TC(common fitting) will as well. A sleipnir is much easier to track then a nano-hac. Nano-hacs are faster and have way smaller sig radius. Quote: In the event you decide to find error in the ishtar, I ALWAYS fit a TD on it as well. Please post your fit so I can laugh at you.
Panteroid The Hoodie Mafia Cosa Nostra.	Posted - 2008.01.27 00:42:00 - [59] Ya that is one up on me.. Simple drunk misunderstanding.. I thought you were refering to the scan resolution ... Was thinking,"what the hell are they talkzing about higher scan res on bs over CS." I now realise the error. Fair enough etc.. and now that I'm as sober as a bird: Trevor: Missile boat w/torps = I win, Missile boat w/cruise (explosion velocity ftl) = I win ps.. post w/ your main Gamesguy: I just read your alliance ticker.. and it all made sense. We are not talking about a CS vs HAC or CS vs CS.. This is CS vs BS! You find me one BS that can track a CS that is doing anything over 2.5 km/s while disrupted. I don't have my sleipnir char. anymore for obvious reasons So tbh.. never really flew it too often. Did fly it a lot against RA and xXx death, with much success. This was all based on situational fights and you turned it into a slicing away at a setup. Whatever floats your boat. Ishtar: 3x 150mm II, Med. Diminishing now, Med. Unstable neut MWD, DB Warp Disrupt., cap inject w/800's, Tracking Disrupt. w/tracking script. I vary the last slot depending on what I will be doing. 2 domi OD's, I-stab II., Explosive Hardener II, Med rep II. 2 poly carbs. With partial implant set and some other implants. Easily hits 6km/s out of gang. I live in Utopia, come and see it for yourself.
Durethia Momentum. The Reckoning.	Posted - 2008.01.27 02:40:00 - [60] Originally by: Belcour Edited by: Belcour on 24/01/2008 02:59:52 I've been thinking of going HACs myself(Since I am Gallante, likely the Deimos). In a fleet battle, do they have a role? The Deimos has a nice niche role in large fleet engagements. Large meaning 0.0 capital supported fleet engagements. The Deimos' DPS and ability to maneuver makes it a very nice ship to take out fighters. Might not seem glamorous but when you have fighters on you, someone who can take care of them quickly is an angel, believe me.



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