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Heavy Assault Ships vs Battleships

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Carth Merrol	Posted - 2008.01.23 23:53:00 - [1] What's the main difference? Is it just that the Heavy Assault ships are way faster and more maneuverable, or what? Are there other advantages, or does the speed/agility make up for the decrease in survivability and firepower you get from using a heavy assault ship instead of a battleship. I.e., what's the appeal of heavy assault ships over battleships? And where do battlecruisers fall in this? Are they comparable to heavy assault ships? Better? Worse? The idea of a battlecruiser or heavy assault ship really appeals to me, but not if they can't really hold a candle to a battleship.
TimMc Gallente Vidar Fierd Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.24 00:15:00 - [2] Battleships outdamage the HACs by immense ammounts. Battleships have bigger tanks. Battleships require less skills, but need more to use proporly. HACs are quick and nimble. HACs have a small sig radius comparitively. HACs have huge tanks for their size. They proform different roles.
Carth Merrol	Posted - 2008.01.24 00:31:00 - [3] Originally by: TimMc Battleships outdamage the HACs by immense ammounts. Battleships have bigger tanks. Battleships require less skills, but need more to use proporly. HACs are quick and nimble. HACs have a small sig radius comparitively. HACs have huge tanks for their size. They proform different roles. And what roles would these be, kind sir? Battleships seem too slow for my taste.
Bosie Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.24 00:33:00 - [4] BS is the ship of the line for any large fleet. It's role is to kill the other BS'. HACs are more useful in smaller fights as they die very quickly in larger fights. "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND
Mizerik Grettistak	Posted - 2008.01.24 00:36:00 - [5] Battleship = DPS/Tank + Slow moving Roles: Fleet Ops, Sustained DPS, Tank HAC = DPS/Tank + Fast Deadly Roles - Oversized Interceptor/InterDictor, Burst DPS, Solo/Wolf Pack Hunter/Tank (Awesome Resists)
Commander Thrawn Fluffy Rabbit Killers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.24 01:10:00 - [6] small gangs = hacs large fleets, gate camps = BS
Belcour	Posted - 2008.01.24 02:59:00 - [7] Edited by: Belcour on 24/01/2008 02:59:52 I've been thinking of going HACs myself(Since I am Gallante, likely the Deimos). In a fleet battle, do they have a role?
Everyone Dies Caldari Lucky Tampon	Posted - 2008.01.24 03:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Belcour Edited by: Belcour on 24/01/2008 02:59:52 I've been thinking of going HACs myself(Since I am Gallante, likely the Deimos). In a fleet battle, do they have a role? deimos dies first after ew and logistics in fleet.
Enkilil Minmatar Carbon Moon Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.24 03:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Belcour I've been thinking of going HACs myself(Since I am Gallante, likely the Deimos). In a fleet battle, do they have a role? Yes, a very good one! The role of a Deimos is extreme dps dealer. Blasters / MWD in guns a'blazin. with 5x T2 medium scout drones and T2 Neutrons w/ magstabs, you'll be pushing out a LOT of dps, disputably more than any other HAC on the field. This will get you called primary pretty quickly however (as already mentioned). Depending on how your fleet / gang is set up, it's best left to you to determine what you'd rather have; ie: more gank and less tank, or vice versa. With the right skills and fittings, you can pull an acceptable tank out of it while still pushing out a lot of blaster damage.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.01.24 04:24:00 - [10] Hac vs bs goes to bs but bs vs Command ship is a different story

Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 05:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Hac vs bs goes to bs but bs vs Command ship is a different story BS would pwn any CS, assuming both pilots are competent and the bs is a short range fit.
Grytok moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.01.24 10:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Hac vs bs goes to bs but bs vs Command ship is a different story BS would pwn any CS, assuming both pilots are competent and the bs is a short range fit. This. HACs are good for smaller, roaming gangs, as they are more agil and can pick their fights. In fleets they're often used as Anti-Support, with long-range-setups most likely (Eagle, Zealot, Muninn). BC/CS have their role most likely in medium sized roaming gangs. For fleets only the Fleet Command Ships are usable, due to their gang-mods. BS are fleet-ships. . CCP gave us shiny new graphics. Too bad they removed Anti Aliasing for me :\
swordz	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:04:00 - [13] so for someone who is looking to get into PvP in a small gang or solo where would my time and skill points be better spent working on my battleships skills which are getting there as now fly a navy raven in lv4's or start working on my HAC skills for solo small group work ?
Ikonz Hyrule Corp	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:11:00 - [14] Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank.
Nuclear Warrior	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank. And thats why every ishtar ever flown by a non-noob is a MWD+nano ishtar =)
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:50:00 - [17] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/01/2008 11:53:03 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank. I think he's talking about PvE, LOL. Ikonz, PvE performance has absolutely nothing to do with PvP performance, and, just like EvE, ships & modules is about PvP. Unless specified otherwise in thread title Originally by: Nuclear Warrior And thats why every ishtar ever flown by a non-noob is a MWD+nano ishtar =) Frankly, I don't see a lot of point in HACs unless you are going to nano them (or unless it's a Diemost, which I just can't see a point in). BCs offer more bang for the buck (and often outright more bang), making me wonder if (at least semi) nano configurations were the intended way to fly HACs. It sure appears that way Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/01/2008 11:53:03 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank. I think he's talking about PvE, LOL. Ikonz, PvE performance has absolutely nothing to do with PvP performance, and, just like EvE, ships & modules is about PvP. Unless specified otherwise in thread title Originally by: Nuclear Warrior And thats why every ishtar ever flown by a non-noob is a MWD+nano ishtar =) Frankly, I don't see a lot of point in HACs unless you are going to nano them (or unless it's a Diemost, which I just can't see a point in). BCs offer more bang for the buck (and often outright more bang), making me wonder if (at least semi) nano configurations were the intended way to fly HACs. It sure appears that way HACs make excellent support ship killers..... --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Ikonz Hyrule Corp	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank. That was a mission setup. I haven't seen armor go beyond 90% ever in the abovementioned missions.
Andreask14 Alterum - Infinitus - Fabula Dragons Of Oceans	Posted - 2008.01.24 12:03:00 - [20] BS are for goons and Hacs are for BOBs.

Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.24 12:12:00 - [21] Edited by: Andrue on 24/01/2008 12:14:36 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Hac vs bs goes to bs but bs vs Command ship is a different story BS would pwn any CS, assuming both pilots are competent and the bs is a short range fit. Nah. Stalemate. I've done tests. My corp mate's CNR could only take my semipassive tanked NH by NOSing it. Without the NOS he couldn't get my shields below 60%. I've had a harder time with mission rats, lol. Of course on the flipside my missiles were doing nothing particularly nasty to his shields either. A competent NH pilot would stay out of NOS range which given the speed difference and the fact that I can hit things up to 74km away isn't a problem. A passive tanked NH wouldn't even have to worry about NOS and could probably still soak the damage up. The real issue would be in the cost. Ignoring faction BS a BS wins because it's so cheap. Losing a NH would be painful. Losing a Raven would be a minor nuisance :) -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.24 12:17:00 - [22] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/01/2008 12:18:36 Originally by: Andrue Nah. Stalemate. I've done tests. My corp mate's CNR could only take my semipassive tanked NH by NOSing it. Well, taking it down is not a stalemate. Furthermore, I highly doubt you had a, like, distruptor installed? Originally by: Andrue A competent NH pilot would stay out of NOS range which given the speed difference and the fact that I can hit things up to 74km away isn't a problem. Yeah, hit things 74 km away, but can you scram 74km away, too? T2 distruptors have the same range as heavy neutralisers. Originally by: Ikonz That was a mission setup. I haven't seen armor go beyond 90% ever in the abovementioned missions. Mission setups in a HAC thread in ships and modules, regarding ship class performance? It's almost trolling Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.24 13:13:00 - [23] Originally by: Nuclear Warrior Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank. And thats why every ishtar ever flown by a non-noob is a MWD+nano ishtar =) A battleship with a heavy neut will still force you out of range or kill you.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 13:19:00 - [24] Edited by: Gamesguy on 24/01/2008 13:20:36 Edited by: Gamesguy on 24/01/2008 13:19:40 Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 24/01/2008 12:14:36 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Hac vs bs goes to bs but bs vs Command ship is a different story BS would pwn any CS, assuming both pilots are competent and the bs is a short range fit. Nah. Stalemate. I've done tests. My corp mate's CNR could only take my semipassive tanked NH by NOSing it. Without the NOS he couldn't get my shields below 60%. I've had a harder time with mission rats, lol. Of course on the flipside my missiles were doing nothing particularly nasty to his shields either. A competent NH pilot would stay out of NOS range which given the speed difference and the fact that I can hit things up to 74km away isn't a problem. A passive tanked NH wouldn't even have to worry about NOS and could probably still soak the damage up. The real issue would be in the cost. Ignoring faction BS a BS wins because it's so cheap. Losing a NH would be painful. Losing a Raven would be a minor nuisance :) A passive tanked NH is about as worthless as a passive tanked drake. Make pretend 1v1 "fights' with your corp mates is not pvp. In any kind of realistic pvp setup, BS>>> CS. CS have their role, but killing battleships is not one of them. EDIT: Oh and a neut domi would eat you alive, actually any BS with a heavy neut would.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 13:21:00 - [25] Originally by: Ikonz Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ikonz Edited by: Ikonz on 24/01/2008 11:13:45 I disagree with all the people here that say that BS>HAC Ishtar has: awesome resists, high DPS (can use 5 heavy drones and ability to carry light/med drones with it to destroy frigs/cruisers even more easily), 500 m/s with afterburner while still perma maintaining the tank (med+duration reduce rig+rep hp increase rig). Runs every gurista/serpentis/sansha mission with 85-90 resists, on top of a speed tank, if you go 500 m/s the BS and many BC/cruisers even barely hit you. And then the BS MWDs into web range, webs you, neuts you, and melt your shiny ishtar before you can even dent his tank. That was a mission setup. I haven't seen armor go beyond 90% ever in the abovementioned missions. And you bring this up in a thread about pvp setups because....
Taliac Caldari Soliders Of Eve The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.24 13:32:00 - [26] Edited by: Taliac on 24/01/2008 13:32:36 a passivr tanked Vulture can tank any bs (maybe not a fully ganked mega). While keeping a point on it. Any bs that does less than 1000 dps is going too have problems. And since it's passive it will last forever. EDIT And if the bs runs equals too lose anyway so^^
Shiodome Caldari Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2008.01.24 13:37:00 - [27] both have strong points and a close match... except for BS's fitting heavy nuets, which tips things waaaaay in thier favour. _____________________________________ today i am this cool: [uncool]================[*]====[cool]
Raxxius Maelstrom	Posted - 2008.01.24 14:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/01/2008 11:53:03 Frankly, I don't see a lot of point in HACs unless you are going to nano them (or unless it's a Diemost, which I just can't see a point in). BCs offer more bang for the buck (and often outright more bang), making me wonder if (at least semi) nano configurations were the intended way to fly HACs. It sure appears that way I don't really think they were, its more the evolution of the current mechanics, Min Maxing that occurs in all PvP games, and the introduction of tier 2 BCs which offer a cheaper, yet still highly effective role.
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr Ordo Ministorum MERCURY RISING.	Posted - 2008.01.24 14:48:00 - [29] Puts on Flame resistant suit Folks, TBH the title thread says nothing about PvP or PvE, though I admit that the OP is likely talking about PvP. Personally I'm training up for a HAC atm, I'm tired of running Lvl4's in a Battleship (Mega) and an alliance m8 often gangs with me in an Ishtar and the very high resists + smaller sig of HAC's make them seem like a good idea for lvl4 missions. OFC CC's are also another option for Lvl4 mission runninig. Often run them in small gangs for fun n' giggles and the uber tank of a HAC makes a great 'warp in 1st and get room aggro, rest of you warp in and gank' kinda setup. One Empire, One Emperor, One People, Forever under Heaven. Amarr Aeternus.
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.01.24 15:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig Puts on Flame resistant suit Folks, TBH the title thread says nothing about PvP or PvE, though I admit that the OP is likely talking about PvP. Personally I'm training up for a HAC atm, I'm tired of running Lvl4's in a Battleship (Mega) and an alliance m8 often gangs with me in an Ishtar and the very high resists + smaller sig of HAC's make them seem like a good idea for lvl4 missions. OFC CC's are also another option for Lvl4 mission runninig. Often run them in small gangs for fun n' giggles and the uber tank of a HAC makes a great 'warp in 1st and get room aggro, rest of you warp in and gank' kinda setup. PVE stuff goes in missions and exploration though. Besides, PVE is kinda hard to get a bad fit, unless you are just trying to be stupid. Tank/Gank/Guns. Isn't very difficult



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