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The Mothership - End of an Era

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:27:00 - [31] Originally by: Kirjava Motherships are corporate assets - not alliance, you saw it here first. I love it when people go out of their way to misinterpret a Dev Post. By the way, building one requires a CSAA, which requires Sov.....so, I think the lack of an alliance would make it difficult to build. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Asestorian Domination.	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:27:00 - [32] Yeah I've always wondered about the Clone Vat bays. They are only useful for a small group of people who are operating in enemy territory, except that this concept is entirely the opposite of how Motherships are, and are clearly supposed to be, used. --- MOZO
xttz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:28:00 - [33] Originally by: Princess Jodi I ask CCP to consider this type of Mom use as they re-spec Moms. Honestly: Had ANYONE EVER seen a Mom fit with a Clone Bay? Ever use it if you did? I have a clone vat for my Nyx. The only I use ever found for it was to clonejump in a disposable Iteron V alt to unload my haulers (for fueling and deploying POSes). Guess how much use this module has had since Rev3
III LightBringer Okkelen Grave Robbers	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Princess Jodi While I've yet to get the dough for a Mothership (all Isk I have I've earned the old fashioned way), I've always had a dream of using one for Exploration. In my dream, the Mom carried the BS, probing ships, haulers and salvagers needed to run the Exploration sites. It would travel the systems providing support for Explorers, and when a nice complex was found people could Clone to it, hop into a waiting ship and run the complex. Unfortunately, the recent nerfs coupled with Heavy Dictors/bubbles make that dream a bit foolish. I'll be doing this in 0.0, so normal dictors are very,very common. Heavy dictors just make life worse because they'll follow you, eliminating the chance of a bad bubble placement. The hauling nerf means that the logistics capacity is down, although it may still be adequate to handle complex loot. I ask CCP to consider this type of Mom use as they re-spec Moms. Honestly: Had ANYONE EVER seen a Mom fit with a Clone Bay? Ever use it if you did? Ehh?? Ehh?? Ehh?? Normal dictor bubbles die quite fast to smartbombs (1000hp) There are some kind of burst ECM thing, or simply, targetting ECM, that should help take care of heavy dictors. The remote ECM burst thingie that have a 25str burst, that I am fairly sure will make you able to get away from a heavy dictor.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:03:00 - [35] Originally by: III LightBringer The remote ECM burst thingie that have a 25str burst, that I am fairly sure will make you able to get away from a heavy dictor. Yes, with no skills in ECM, that burst should still 100% break the lock of anything sub-capital. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Merakys Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:04:00 - [36] Originally by: Saldoro Well it's finally happened. There are more people producing these than pilots to fly them. And many that fly them are looking for a way out. This week we've seen the Nyx drop to 15b in Sell Orders and they are still not selling. Mineral cost alone is 12.5b then you have the BPC, the POS, the logistics. Mothership ganks are happening almost daily now. For the 25x carrier cost (or are standard T2 fit Moms going to be the standard now) why would you get in a Mothership? Certainly doesn't tank 25 times better. Doesn't shield or armour rep 25 times better, doesn't pwn 25 times better, doesn't hold 25 times more ships than a carrier. Mothership now a liability in a fleet rather than a table-turner? Seems many think so if the most popular mothership in the game can't be sold for below cost. Have we seen the end of the Mothership era? Diminishing returns, meet Saldoro. Saldoro, meet diminishing returns.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:05:00 - [37] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: III LightBringer The remote ECM burst thingie that have a 25str burst, that I am fairly sure will make you able to get away from a heavy dictor. Yes, with no skills in ECM, that burst should still 100% break the lock of anything sub-capital. Wont get you away from HICS though, unless youre aligned and at 75% speed. They can relock immediatly and doing so will take only about 2 secs..
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:12:00 - [38] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: III LightBringer The remote ECM burst thingie that have a 25str burst, that I am fairly sure will make you able to get away from a heavy dictor. Yes, with no skills in ECM, that burst should still 100% break the lock of anything sub-capital. Wont get you away from HICS though, unless youre aligned and at 75% speed. They can relock immediatly and doing so will take only about 2 secs.. Of if they have a bubble up, which will still stop you and doesn't require them to lock you (although you can still jump out) ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Rurouni40	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:14:00 - [39] no solo flying MS use spider tank spider goes for all caps
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:16:00 - [40] Originally by: CCP Atropos They were never meant to be a common ship. The cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them was meant to make them more of a corporate level project, not something that caters towards solo play. This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses. TBH, I'd prefer a solo-capable, sub-capital carrier class (something akin to how the Dominix used to be). Four or five high slots, minimal weapon hardpoints with carrier style drone bonuses with massive drone bays (relative to the scale of the class) Right now you've given us the Nimitz class, there's nothing that really covers the Invincible/Iwo Jima level of carrier support. Just to be 100% clear, I'm not asking for Chimeras and their counterparts to be altered to become solo play boats. I would like a Raven-level Chimera-style ship to play around with.
Concordokken Plox	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:16:00 - [41] Originally by: Rurouni40 no solo flying MS use spider tank spider goes for all caps Is that supposed to be a haiku? If so, fail
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:36:00 - [42] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Kirjava Motherships are corporate assets - not alliance, you saw it here first. I love it when people go out of their way to misinterpret a Dev Post. By the way, building one requires a CSAA, which requires Sov.....so, I think the lack of an alliance would make it difficult to build. In EVE's broken sov mechanics and megalliance > all environment, sure. Why shouldn't a large corp be able to field everything short of a Titan? Originally by: Frug Your reputation has been entirely redeemed in my eyes. I now want your babies.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:40:00 - [43] You can't sensor damp or jam an Ewar-immune ship, so how long can a Hictor possibly survive the fire from 20 fighters, even assuming the MS doesn't have a support fleet to add to the DPS? I thought fighters were still effective against cruisers, no?
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:42:00 - [44] Originally by: Dirk Magnum You can't sensor damp or jam an Ewar-immune ship, so how long can a Hictor possibly survive the fire from 20 fighters, even assuming the MS doesn't have a support fleet to add to the DPS? I thought fighters were still effective against cruisers, no? Devoter properly setup can easily tank 20 fighters. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:43:00 - [45] Originally by: CCP Atropos They were never meant to be a common ship. The cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them was meant to make them more of a corporate level project, not something that caters towards solo play. This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses. Cost? With a money supply as large as we have today, cost really isn't a factor for a significant portion of the playerbase. Inflation may not exist, but a grossly disproportionate amount of wealth does sit with a good number of players. This really shouldn't have come as a surprise. Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
darth solo Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:50:00 - [46] motherships along with carriers are there to keep the friendly gang alive while giving out a little offence in the form of its fighters. the very basics or a mom/carrier pilot is capital reps along with remote reps shield AND armour. keep the gang alive win the fight. well setup motherships die to large BS gangs or cap gangs, rubbish fitted ones die to roaming nano gangs. with so much isk in eve ppl are throwing it at these ships while having no clue how to fit them, its embarassing. d solo.

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.25 17:16:00 - [47] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: CCP Atropos They were never meant to be a common ship. The cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them was meant to make them more of a corporate level project, not something that caters towards solo play. This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses. TBH, I'd prefer a solo-capable, sub-capital carrier class (something akin to how the Dominix used to be). Four or five high slots, minimal weapon hardpoints with carrier style drone bonuses with massive drone bays (relative to the scale of the class) Right now you've given us the Nimitz class, there's nothing that really covers the Invincible/Iwo Jima level of carrier support. Just to be 100% clear, I'm not asking for Chimeras and their counterparts to be altered to become solo play boats. I would like a Raven-level Chimera-style ship to play around with. Ah, and there in lies where I would like to see combat being. Note, this is only my opinion on the matter and by no means an indication of what may or may not be coming. With the ass covering out of the way, I'd love for 95% of combat to take place at Battleship and below classes. Unfortunately people come into the game and always want bigger and better ships. At present most people run out of resources/time at the Carrier point, since the drawbacks start becoming quite harsh beyond that (inability to dock/etc). Unfortunately, Carriers were never meant to be the mainstay ships of the fleet. I would be over the moon if we could balance things so that peoples first choice for a ship to take into combat didn't involve a cynosaural field fitted to call in the inevitable back up, and it's something I'm constantly debating with the Game Designers. People inevitably want a solo-pwn-mobile but it is never going to happen. There will always be a drawback to whatever ship you're flying, and if one ship or, as is the case at present, class of ships becomes too powerful in the niches they fills then we have to balance it, since it's not inline with our vision for the game. Presently Carriers and to a lesser degree, their big brothers, Motherships, are this pwn-mobile, solo or otherwise. Sure they have drawbacks, but as can be seen by the simple fact that they're becoming common, and yearned for, something needs to be done. To address this, there has been an immense amount of internal discussion about where we want them to go, contrasted with what the player base is using them for presently. It's not an easy decision to change them, and as can be seen from the post that was made a few months ago, by CCP Zulupark, about proposed changes, the player base vehemently disagrees to any changes to the status quo, whether it's actually in the best interests of game balance or not. We won't change them on a whim, but we are constantly analysing their usage and implementation as well as their accessibility to players currently on TQ.

Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.25 17:18:00 - [48] Quote: For the 25x carrier cost (or are standard T2 fit Moms going to be the standard now) why would you get in a Mothership? For something other than solo camping low sec gates?
Jin Jura	Posted - 2008.01.25 17:19:00 - [49] 2 officer neuts, and you can empty a hics cap in 2 maybe 3 cycles, then jump out
Destructor1792 Minmatar Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.25 17:41:00 - [50] Originally by: CCP Atropos what he just said Allow cyno gens to be fitted to only one type of unique race ship maybe (a one high slot ship wonder )? As for Cap ships, I nearly (note i said "nearly") quit the game due to the sheer boredom of actually piloting them! I now look back at the time i spent (or wasted) training for them and wish I never bothered! Having nearly jumped into a mom, I realised that this would effectively kill off the usefullness of my char.. not being able to dock, limited use, chance of POS getting blobbed, leaving an unpiloted one at a POS to go do something else!! No Chance and No thanks. I'm much happier flying standard ships again Some players enjoy using Cap Ships, others like myself don't. Simple as really ______________________________________ *Bringing The Fun Back* I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak.
Buxaroo Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.25 17:44:00 - [51] Originally by: Shamen .....after the past week seeing 3 Motherships being blown up by rather small gangs, its apparent there is a problem. Yeah, it's called fitting X-Large Shield Boosters on a Wyvern What's sad is that most of those motherships had really, really bad fittings, with the exception of the MC mom but that guy got caught with his pants down (his hardeners were not fitted, he was using travel fittings). Yes, motherships are rather expensive compared to a carrier and require a lot more isk to fit properly. And their immunity to EW is the best thing about them. But with a rather large fleet with titans and multiple carriers/dreads, they can make the difference between a dead cap fleet and a surviving cap fleet.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.25 18:47:00 - [52] Quote: TBH, I'd prefer a solo-capable, sub-capital carrier class (something akin to how the Dominix used to be). Four or five high slots, minimal weapon hardpoints with carrier style drone bonuses with massive drone bays (relative to the scale of the class) Oh I would love to see this. All good scifi is full of light carriers, escort carriers, etc, which are little more than launching bays with engines strapped on.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:20:00 - [53] I thought the jedi era ended with order 66 but thats just me
Panteroid The Hoodie Mafia Cosa Nostra.	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:42:00 - [54] Originally by: Shamen An idea i recently thought of - its quite simple really. Motherships - Requires two heavy interdictors with Focused scripts to hold it down from jumping out Titan - Requires 4 heavy interdictors with focused scripts to hold it down These ships were meant to be taken down by teamwork - they are two of the most expensive ships in game and after the past week seeing 3 Motherships being blown up by rather small gangs, its apparent there is a problem. If someone loses their MS to a gang that has only one HIC holding it down.. I would have to say they needed to die. Almost all MOM pilots fit an officer heavy neut. If nothing else, put an ***load of drones on the HIC until he bails. Basically what I am saying, it already should take AT LEAST two HIC's to kill a MOM. That is the least I can see. Them cycling their pts, and getting logistic boosting.
Sprzedawczyk	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:58:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP Atropos Well I'm QA Engineering so I can but suggest to them. And tie them up. And dangle them off the roof. Sometimes they complain that it gets cold up there, but they eventually come round to my viewpoint... I was going to flame you to hell and back for your lag peddling*, but then I noticed this post. QA Engineer. Quality. Assurance. In EVE. Let's just end at this. Unanimously biggest problem in EVE is lag. Lag happens because too many people get into one place. Which happens because people don't like loosing and zergling happens to be the best way to succeed in EVE. Be it fleet battle or market pvp. Fanatically advocating quantity over quality isn't exactly going to help. My solution would be to actually screw battleships and add middle class of ships - something deadly to BS, but very vulnerable to dreadnoughts. With t2 battleship pricetag. Everyone gets new dreamship to train for, zergling has viable counter which by itself cannot be zerged due to it's pricetag. Oh, and dreadnoughts still have some use. For MS and titans - make them ungodly fleet logistics ships. Awesome targeted boosting abilities(remote dmg, range, tracking, defense boosters), traveling improvements (small ships could dock to MS and travel with it, limited reverse jump bridge, etc.) and some general bonuses. Make them uber with a fleet, but totally useless on their own. I can promise you the amount of super capitals would balance itself within a week.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:59:00 - [56] Originally by: CCP Atropos Unfortunately, Carriers were never meant to be the mainstay ships of the fleet. Quote: People inevitably want a solo-pwn-mobile but it is never going to happen. There will always be a drawback to whatever ship you're flying, and if one ship or, as is the case at present, class of ships becomes too powerful in the niches they fills then we have to balance it, since it's not inline with our vision for the game. Presently Carriers and to a lesser degree, their big brothers, Motherships, are this pwn-mobile, solo or otherwise. Sure they have drawbacks, but as can be seen by the simple fact that they're becoming common, and yearned for, something needs to be done. Killing their logistical function didn't change their combat effectiveness too much. Carrier droneswarms are still pretty amazing to behold when they're unleashed, and the kicker is, you can't balance (nerf) that too hard without changing them from carriers into something else entirely. The carrier droneswarm is the heart and soul of the solo-pwn mobile (ok, small gang pwn-mobile, unless you don't mind hanging out in one system all the time). They can quickly and effectively engage targets from frigates on up to battleships just by selecting the appropriate mix of drones for the job. Ewar drones give them an effective extra mid/low slot depending on what they choose to fly. They're VERY powerful and VERY flexible, because their primary weapons they can deploy in great number are themselves still extremely effective, despite some of the Trinity nerfage. You can't kill carriers as desirable combat ships without killing their drones. Kill drones and you may as well remove the Gallente from the game. Your worst case scenario is to simply accept that carriers are going to be the pinnacle of combat power in the current scheme. Motherships and Titans have been given impressive achilles heels, and the only reason anyone ever undocks a dreadnought is to siege a POS. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Sprzedawczyk	Posted - 2008.01.25 20:17:00 - [57] Auto drone targeting module maybe? Plus, killing off fighters really hurt.
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.01.25 20:39:00 - [58] interesting responses so far. To add my few cents. Capitals are not broken, they were planned as a new class to add more depth into combat but ccp lost the plot on this new dimension. Pos wars lead to lag and Pos wars make capital ships needed. More capitals mean more risk (as in isk on the field) and hence more support and more fleet comes and hence even more lag. Really a circle thingy here. Motherships and Titans have one major flaw. When they were designed they were "sold" to the playerbase as something to aim for, something unique and uber. Literally a solopwnmobile dream. When reality caught up with supercaps they were nerfed to hell and back because ccp realized that they greatly imbalance gameplay vs newer players and those who simply cant afford it. This turned the wheel once again, leaving those who invested heavily into those promised superboats in a rather sore spot. The result was that the spend hillarious amounts of cash on a ship which is "abit better" but has severe drawbacks not to mention a big bullseye painted on it. The majority of all current mothership pilots wouldnt rebuy or rebuild one i guess if its not just for the epeen thing. Titans are still usefull but too weak for the pricetag, especially if you only field one precious of your alliance. The idea to battle lag via weapons simply is a big failtrain. DD and Bombs showed that. As for the QA ideas guy, i dont see how anyone in ccp thought it would be a good idea to create two of the most versatile shipclasses in the game, the dictor, cheap and superfast and the hictor, ubertank and superscrambler, both with easy skillchains to be the "anti supercap" scrambler. That these ships would be some of the most common ingame, especially in fleetcombat never came as a surprise. Far smarter would have been to allow dreads or carriers to carry a "capital warpscrambler". The biggest imbalance ingame is the fact that it advertises quantity above quality while not having the ressources to handle the results. Ships from "lower tier" have it too easy to kill above their own weightclass. Imagine there would be something like a negative sig radius on turrets, reducing the amount guns do to "bigger targets" similar to the current diminishing return on targets which are smaller then your weapontype. Roaming gangs would actually need a few bs to kill bs. Fleets would need more support and Capital ships wouldnt melt to hac and bs fleets anymore but require a decent force with the right shiptypes. Nowadays you can kill any pilot in his mothership with 50+ longrange frigs and 2 hictors. Tho digitalcommunist wrote some well thought out post somewhere about zerging and why ppl zerg, so i wont repeat it all again. Just ccp needs to wake up and change the "whys" and not the symptoms. If ppl dish out 20bln + fitting for their ship to be uber and a solopwnmobile in lowsec. Let them. Give ppl a maybe 5% chance to catch them those who really want to get it done will do so. Currently the whiners got the better end of ccp and there is literally a 100% to catch a mom at any given time as soon as he leaves the forcefield.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.25 20:40:00 - [59] Originally by: Sprzedawczyk Auto drone targeting module maybe? Plus, killing off fighters really hurt. In the half dozen times I've been killed by carriers, I've never once seen a fighter fly. Its always been drones, usually Ogre IIs. Fighters seem to be pretty reviled by drone pilots (especially since they leave their brain behind when they follow their targets into warp). Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.01.25 21:03:00 - [60] The only promlem is you cant solo pwn in them with a small support gang, hang on that isnt a problem after all. nothing wrong here please move along and use your ship in the required role

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