EVE Search - The Mothership

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

The Mothership - End of an Era

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Saldoro Disco Biscuits New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:06:00 - [1] Well it's finally happened. There are more people producing these than pilots to fly them. And many that fly them are looking for a way out. This week we've seen the Nyx drop to 15b in Sell Orders and they are still not selling. Mineral cost alone is 12.5b then you have the BPC, the POS, the logistics. Mothership ganks are happening almost daily now. For the 25x carrier cost (or are standard T2 fit Moms going to be the standard now) why would you get in a Mothership? Certainly doesn't tank 25 times better. Doesn't shield or armour rep 25 times better, doesn't pwn 25 times better, doesn't hold 25 times more ships than a carrier. Mothership now a liability in a fleet rather than a table-turner? Seems many think so if the most popular mothership in the game can't be sold for below cost. Have we seen the end of the Mothership era? ---- Looking for secure research opportunities with no queues?

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:12:00 - [2] Nope, they're still tha uber miners And prices hasn't dropped, they are still around 17, just coz I did 15 doesn't mean you all have to follow lols. But tbh, no I don't think it's an end, maybe just need to be balanced again so that they have a little better defensive capabilities? (or nerf them to death and give them a mining drone bonus) /c Secure 3rd party service ■ the Love project

Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:15:00 - [3] I dont pay 15b isk to fly a giant slow unimpressive time consuming "shoot me" beacon. These hulls are so freaking huge, but all you get is more dronebay and a highslot? No thanks.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:23:00 - [4] T2 fitted carrier is good, t2 fitted mom is bad - so there is a cost associated with the fittings too - especially if you want to shield tank. On top of all that, you can't dock in one - which means you are stuck in the mom. . .no thanks. -----------
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:24:00 - [5] WHAT You mean the 30% or so improvment you get over a carrier for the 900% price increase isnt worth it oh wait ...
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:37:00 - [6] The EW immunity might be worth it if they could at least dock ... As they are now, 4-5x the cost of a Carrier would be reasonable. EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:39:00 - [7] A HAC cost about 100 mill (in worst case scenario) and a Cruiser about 4 mill. That is at least 10 times the cost, but I don't see a HAC do 10 times the damage, have 10x the tank, 10x the cargo hold and/or 10x the speed of a Cruiser. Don't base your arguments on price, the most flawed reason.
Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:43:00 - [8] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes A HAC cost about 100 mill (in worst case scenario) and a Cruiser about 4 mill. That is at least 10 times the cost, but I don't see a HAC do 10 times the damage, have 10x the tank, 10x the cargo hold and/or 10x the speed of a Cruiser. Don't base your arguments on price, the most flawed reason. let compare the maller and the sac. Fitted, insured, and setup nicely the sac is about 10 times more expensive. Its also does about 4 times the dps, tanks about twice as well, And is about 4 times as versatile (this versatility is why people fly t2 ships). For a mom though i agree that they just arent worth it anymore. The ability for them to be tackled with what become an incredibly common ship means that they die just as easilya as thier cheaper counterparts
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:57:00 - [9] My opinion is that CCP have been very clever here. They saw that Moms & Carriers (yes, I know this thread initially was just about Moms but bear with me) were being used in a way that they didn't like. So they announce a nerf. Oh look massive throwing-of-toys-out-of-prams happens, the whining drowns out even the noise of Oveurs personal bree fridge, CCP go "woah woah we were joking, lolz, it was all Zulupark's idea anyway!" and rein the nerfs in. They then carefully design a ship, the HIC, specifically designed to screw with the things people are doing with capships that they don't like. Once this takes effect, as it is now, and people stop flying these ships THEN they'll bring in a bunch of changes that make carriers & moms much more viable as fleet support ships but suck as solopwnmobiles. Everyone goes hooray CCP roxors they un-nerfed our capships! Genius IMO. ________________________________________________________________ Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
Asestorian Domination.	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:08:00 - [10] Edited by: Asestorian on 25/01/2008 13:08:42 Reading EON issue 1 I notice something: Motherships are designed for large alliance use. Think about that. Now look at those selling the Motherships. People keep buying these things because they're big and cool and they want to spend their ridiculous amounts of ISK, but they have absolutely no need to, and soon find that for their small corp Motherships are more of a pain in the arse than a useful tool. There are some people who knew this anyway but still bought their Mothership, and they are determined to work around the problems that owning such a ship entails. Basically, people aren't buying Motherships because they've realised that they don't need them, and don't have any use for them that Carriers can't already fulfil. For many large alliances Supercapitals in general have a use because they have the infrastructure to support them, where the extra cargo/ship space comes in handy, and the EW immunity helps to keep their Carriers, other Motherships, and even Titans, alive. --- MOZO
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Firkragg Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes A HAC cost about 100 mill (in worst case scenario) and a Cruiser about 4 mill. That is at least 10 times the cost, but I don't see a HAC do 10 times the damage, have 10x the tank, 10x the cargo hold and/or 10x the speed of a Cruiser. Don't base your arguments on price, the most flawed reason. let compare the maller and the sac. Fitted, insured, and setup nicely the sac is about 10 times more expensive. Its also does about 4 times the dps, tanks about twice as well, And is about 4 times as versatile (this versatility is why people fly t2 ships). For a mom though i agree that they just arent worth it anymore. The ability for them to be tackled with what become an incredibly common ship means that they die just as easilya as thier cheaper counterparts Its fairer to compare say the brutix and myrm. Yes the cost difference is higher, but thats usually the case with larger ships. --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Kerdrak 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:13:00 - [12] "Inmune to all forms of Electronic Warfare" ________________________________________

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:17:00 - [13] They were never meant to be a common ship. The cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them was meant to make them more of a corporate level project, not something that caters towards solo play. This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses.

Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:21:00 - [14] Originally by: CCP Atropos This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses. Battleship Combat? Fun? Personaly? w00t! Motherships are corporate assets - not alliance, you saw it here first. ~Nyron Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:24:00 - [15] Well I'm QA Engineering so I can but suggest to them. And tie them up. And dangle them off the roof. Sometimes they complain that it gets cold up there, but they eventually come round to my viewpoint...

Ping Li	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:33:00 - [16] Originally by: CCP Atropos They were never meant to be a common ship. The cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them was meant to make them more of a corporate level project, not something that caters towards solo play. This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses. The reason people aren't flying them is not because of the cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them. People don't fly them because they offer next to nothing extra if compared with a carrier.
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:43:00 - [17] They would be real motherships and useful for large alliances if half a dozen battleships could dock in them with their pilots and cyno jump together with the Mothership ... EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:55:00 - [18] An idea i recently thought of - its quite simple really. Motherships - Requires two heavy interdictors with Focused scripts to hold it down from jumping out Titan - Requires 4 heavy interdictors with focused scripts to hold it down These ships were meant to be taken down by teamwork - they are two of the most expensive ships in game and after the past week seeing 3 Motherships being blown up by rather small gangs, its apparent there is a problem. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Shamen An idea i recently thought of - its quite simple really. Motherships - Requires two heavy interdictors with Focused scripts to hold it down from jumping out Titan - Requires 4 heavy interdictors with focused scripts to hold it down These ships were meant to be taken down by teamwork - they are two of the most expensive ships in game and after the past week seeing 3 Motherships being blown up by rather small gangs, its apparent there is a problem. It takes more than 1 HIC to hold down and kill a MS pilot with a brain and decent fittings and sometimes not even 1 to take down a noob with crap fittings. Looks good to me. EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Shamen An idea i recently thought of - its quite simple really. Motherships - Requires two heavy interdictors with Focused scripts to hold it down from jumping out Titan - Requires 4 heavy interdictors with focused scripts to hold it down These ships were meant to be taken down by teamwork - they are two of the most expensive ships in game and after the past week seeing 3 Motherships being blown up by rather small gangs, its apparent there is a problem. Were the motherships flying with a support fleet? If so how did the the rather small gang achieve victory. If not, then it sounds as if theres nothing wrong in terms of the general principal that a very large ship 'alone' can be taken out by a swarm of smaller ships. Thats not to say I think M Ships are working well - they should be as 'corp ships' something that provides a 'mobile station' aspect, with industrial production capabilities and so forth. C. Improved Low Sec Idea!!
Kappas. Galaxy Punks Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:01:00 - [21] I think they should get huuuuge tanking bonuses and also a massive boost to their ship maintenance bay. Then they would start to creep towards being worth their price or effort to make them. __________________
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:10:00 - [22] The other idea iv been thinking about is giving both the Mothership and Titan a 'Siege Shield' module. Siege Shield Creates a 'force field' 30km around the ship allowing ships friendly to the pilot into the shield. Requires 90% Capacitor to Activate -100% Capacitor Recharge Rate * -100% Velocity * -100% Targetting Range CPU: 200 PG: 400.000 Fuel Cost: 100 Stront per 30min Ofcorse im just throwing out ideas here, might work... ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:11:00 - [23] Sham we have wanted one of those since Mums and Titans were anounced. ~Nyron Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Kirjava Sham we have wanted one of those since Mums and Titans were anounced. Look who it was who wrote in the original mom thread lol. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:19:00 - [25] Originally by: Shamen Originally by: Kirjava Sham we have wanted one of those since Mums and Titans were anounced. Look who it was who wrote in the original mom thread lol. I can't remember, linky?.... ~Nyron Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:35:00 - [26] whoaaa... stop the train here. I don't fly them but my 0.02. Just because a bunch of morons buy isk, buy near skilled characters, can't be arsed to spend anymore skill time, fit their ships ridiculously poorly cause they maxed out their dad's credit card, have no combat experience and sit solo at a low sec gate, doesn't mean MoM's are dead. These ships are brutal to fight when they are in appropriate hands. Lets not let a few killmails all of a sudden taint their image. It doesn't matter if its MoMs or faction fit BS's getting pummeled at low sec gates or whatever. Ridiculous isk buying whether thru the farmers or massive gtc sales, everything else is just a consequence, and it will only get worse if a portion of the steam crowd shows up.
Primnproper	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:59:00 - [27] So by your arguement an intie that costs 7 mil (for example i can't check the prices now) isn't worth it because the t1 version costs only 100k, but wait that one is 70x the cost of the frig why isn't the inite 70 times better than the frig? Oh thats right its because value for money goes down as the price goes up on all things in eve and always has.... ... Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Jayne Tamm	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:03:00 - [28] Originally by: Matrixcvd whoaaa... stop the train here. I don't fly them but my 0.02. Just because a bunch of morons buy isk, buy near skilled characters, can't be arsed to spend anymore skill time, fit their ships ridiculously poorly cause they maxed out their dad's credit card, have no combat experience and sit solo at a low sec gate, doesn't mean MoM's are dead. These ships are brutal to fight when they are in appropriate hands. Lets not let a few killmails all of a sudden taint their image. It doesn't matter if its MoMs or faction fit BS's getting pummeled at low sec gates or whatever. Ridiculous isk buying whether thru the farmers or massive gtc sales, everything else is just a consequence, and it will only get worse if a portion of the steam crowd shows up. i must agree with this too. they are logistics ships essentially. you should not be able to solo in them. look at RL carriers......they are useless except in a support role (i.e.: no offensive capabilities). you dont send a mom or carrier for that matter into the heart of a fight.....you sit back...delegate fighters out...and rep anyone that needs it. solo one of these and you are asking to be BS fodder!!
McAltyalty	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Primnproper So by your arguement an intie that costs 7 mil (for example i can't check the prices now) isn't worth it because the t1 version costs only 100k, but wait that one is 70x the cost of the frig why isn't the inite 70 times better than the frig? Oh thats right its because value for money goes down as the price goes up on all things in eve and always has.... Except the Inti is far better than the t1 version and performs its role better, the mothership does not.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:14:00 - [30] While I've yet to get the dough for a Mothership (all Isk I have I've earned the old fashioned way), I've always had a dream of using one for Exploration. In my dream, the Mom carried the BS, probing ships, haulers and salvagers needed to run the Exploration sites. It would travel the systems providing support for Explorers, and when a nice complex was found people could Clone to it, hop into a waiting ship and run the complex. Unfortunately, the recent nerfs coupled with Heavy Dictors/bubbles make that dream a bit foolish. I'll be doing this in 0.0, so normal dictors are very,very common. Heavy dictors just make life worse because they'll follow you, eliminating the chance of a bad bubble placement. The hauling nerf means that the logistics capacity is down, although it may still be adequate to handle complex loot. I ask CCP to consider this type of Mom use as they re-spec Moms. Honestly: Had ANYONE EVER seen a Mom fit with a Clone Bay? Ever use it if you did?
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:27:00 - [31] Originally by: Kirjava Motherships are corporate assets - not alliance, you saw it here first. I love it when people go out of their way to misinterpret a Dev Post. By the way, building one requires a CSAA, which requires Sov.....so, I think the lack of an alliance would make it difficult to build. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Asestorian Domination.	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:27:00 - [32] Yeah I've always wondered about the Clone Vat bays. They are only useful for a small group of people who are operating in enemy territory, except that this concept is entirely the opposite of how Motherships are, and are clearly supposed to be, used. --- MOZO
xttz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:28:00 - [33] Originally by: Princess Jodi I ask CCP to consider this type of Mom use as they re-spec Moms. Honestly: Had ANYONE EVER seen a Mom fit with a Clone Bay? Ever use it if you did? I have a clone vat for my Nyx. The only I use ever found for it was to clonejump in a disposable Iteron V alt to unload my haulers (for fueling and deploying POSes). Guess how much use this module has had since Rev3
III LightBringer Okkelen Grave Robbers	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Princess Jodi While I've yet to get the dough for a Mothership (all Isk I have I've earned the old fashioned way), I've always had a dream of using one for Exploration. In my dream, the Mom carried the BS, probing ships, haulers and salvagers needed to run the Exploration sites. It would travel the systems providing support for Explorers, and when a nice complex was found people could Clone to it, hop into a waiting ship and run the complex. Unfortunately, the recent nerfs coupled with Heavy Dictors/bubbles make that dream a bit foolish. I'll be doing this in 0.0, so normal dictors are very,very common. Heavy dictors just make life worse because they'll follow you, eliminating the chance of a bad bubble placement. The hauling nerf means that the logistics capacity is down, although it may still be adequate to handle complex loot. I ask CCP to consider this type of Mom use as they re-spec Moms. Honestly: Had ANYONE EVER seen a Mom fit with a Clone Bay? Ever use it if you did? Ehh?? Ehh?? Ehh?? Normal dictor bubbles die quite fast to smartbombs (1000hp) There are some kind of burst ECM thing, or simply, targetting ECM, that should help take care of heavy dictors. The remote ECM burst thingie that have a 25str burst, that I am fairly sure will make you able to get away from a heavy dictor.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:03:00 - [35] Originally by: III LightBringer The remote ECM burst thingie that have a 25str burst, that I am fairly sure will make you able to get away from a heavy dictor. Yes, with no skills in ECM, that burst should still 100% break the lock of anything sub-capital. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Merakys Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:04:00 - [36] Originally by: Saldoro Well it's finally happened. There are more people producing these than pilots to fly them. And many that fly them are looking for a way out. This week we've seen the Nyx drop to 15b in Sell Orders and they are still not selling. Mineral cost alone is 12.5b then you have the BPC, the POS, the logistics. Mothership ganks are happening almost daily now. For the 25x carrier cost (or are standard T2 fit Moms going to be the standard now) why would you get in a Mothership? Certainly doesn't tank 25 times better. Doesn't shield or armour rep 25 times better, doesn't pwn 25 times better, doesn't hold 25 times more ships than a carrier. Mothership now a liability in a fleet rather than a table-turner? Seems many think so if the most popular mothership in the game can't be sold for below cost. Have we seen the end of the Mothership era? Diminishing returns, meet Saldoro. Saldoro, meet diminishing returns.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:05:00 - [37] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: III LightBringer The remote ECM burst thingie that have a 25str burst, that I am fairly sure will make you able to get away from a heavy dictor. Yes, with no skills in ECM, that burst should still 100% break the lock of anything sub-capital. Wont get you away from HICS though, unless youre aligned and at 75% speed. They can relock immediatly and doing so will take only about 2 secs..
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:12:00 - [38] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: III LightBringer The remote ECM burst thingie that have a 25str burst, that I am fairly sure will make you able to get away from a heavy dictor. Yes, with no skills in ECM, that burst should still 100% break the lock of anything sub-capital. Wont get you away from HICS though, unless youre aligned and at 75% speed. They can relock immediatly and doing so will take only about 2 secs.. Of if they have a bubble up, which will still stop you and doesn't require them to lock you (although you can still jump out) ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Rurouni40	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:14:00 - [39] no solo flying MS use spider tank spider goes for all caps
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:16:00 - [40] Originally by: CCP Atropos They were never meant to be a common ship. The cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them was meant to make them more of a corporate level project, not something that caters towards solo play. This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses. TBH, I'd prefer a solo-capable, sub-capital carrier class (something akin to how the Dominix used to be). Four or five high slots, minimal weapon hardpoints with carrier style drone bonuses with massive drone bays (relative to the scale of the class) Right now you've given us the Nimitz class, there's nothing that really covers the Invincible/Iwo Jima level of carrier support. Just to be 100% clear, I'm not asking for Chimeras and their counterparts to be altered to become solo play boats. I would like a Raven-level Chimera-style ship to play around with.
Concordokken Plox	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:16:00 - [41] Originally by: Rurouni40 no solo flying MS use spider tank spider goes for all caps Is that supposed to be a haiku? If so, fail
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:36:00 - [42] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Kirjava Motherships are corporate assets - not alliance, you saw it here first. I love it when people go out of their way to misinterpret a Dev Post. By the way, building one requires a CSAA, which requires Sov.....so, I think the lack of an alliance would make it difficult to build. In EVE's broken sov mechanics and megalliance > all environment, sure. Why shouldn't a large corp be able to field everything short of a Titan? Originally by: Frug Your reputation has been entirely redeemed in my eyes. I now want your babies.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:40:00 - [43] You can't sensor damp or jam an Ewar-immune ship, so how long can a Hictor possibly survive the fire from 20 fighters, even assuming the MS doesn't have a support fleet to add to the DPS? I thought fighters were still effective against cruisers, no?
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:42:00 - [44] Originally by: Dirk Magnum You can't sensor damp or jam an Ewar-immune ship, so how long can a Hictor possibly survive the fire from 20 fighters, even assuming the MS doesn't have a support fleet to add to the DPS? I thought fighters were still effective against cruisers, no? Devoter properly setup can easily tank 20 fighters. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:43:00 - [45] Originally by: CCP Atropos They were never meant to be a common ship. The cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them was meant to make them more of a corporate level project, not something that caters towards solo play. This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses. Cost? With a money supply as large as we have today, cost really isn't a factor for a significant portion of the playerbase. Inflation may not exist, but a grossly disproportionate amount of wealth does sit with a good number of players. This really shouldn't have come as a surprise. Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
darth solo Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:50:00 - [46] motherships along with carriers are there to keep the friendly gang alive while giving out a little offence in the form of its fighters. the very basics or a mom/carrier pilot is capital reps along with remote reps shield AND armour. keep the gang alive win the fight. well setup motherships die to large BS gangs or cap gangs, rubbish fitted ones die to roaming nano gangs. with so much isk in eve ppl are throwing it at these ships while having no clue how to fit them, its embarassing. d solo.

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.25 17:16:00 - [47] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: CCP Atropos They were never meant to be a common ship. The cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them was meant to make them more of a corporate level project, not something that caters towards solo play. This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses. TBH, I'd prefer a solo-capable, sub-capital carrier class (something akin to how the Dominix used to be). Four or five high slots, minimal weapon hardpoints with carrier style drone bonuses with massive drone bays (relative to the scale of the class) Right now you've given us the Nimitz class, there's nothing that really covers the Invincible/Iwo Jima level of carrier support. Just to be 100% clear, I'm not asking for Chimeras and their counterparts to be altered to become solo play boats. I would like a Raven-level Chimera-style ship to play around with. Ah, and there in lies where I would like to see combat being. Note, this is only my opinion on the matter and by no means an indication of what may or may not be coming. With the ass covering out of the way, I'd love for 95% of combat to take place at Battleship and below classes. Unfortunately people come into the game and always want bigger and better ships. At present most people run out of resources/time at the Carrier point, since the drawbacks start becoming quite harsh beyond that (inability to dock/etc). Unfortunately, Carriers were never meant to be the mainstay ships of the fleet. I would be over the moon if we could balance things so that peoples first choice for a ship to take into combat didn't involve a cynosaural field fitted to call in the inevitable back up, and it's something I'm constantly debating with the Game Designers. People inevitably want a solo-pwn-mobile but it is never going to happen. There will always be a drawback to whatever ship you're flying, and if one ship or, as is the case at present, class of ships becomes too powerful in the niches they fills then we have to balance it, since it's not inline with our vision for the game. Presently Carriers and to a lesser degree, their big brothers, Motherships, are this pwn-mobile, solo or otherwise. Sure they have drawbacks, but as can be seen by the simple fact that they're becoming common, and yearned for, something needs to be done. To address this, there has been an immense amount of internal discussion about where we want them to go, contrasted with what the player base is using them for presently. It's not an easy decision to change them, and as can be seen from the post that was made a few months ago, by CCP Zulupark, about proposed changes, the player base vehemently disagrees to any changes to the status quo, whether it's actually in the best interests of game balance or not. We won't change them on a whim, but we are constantly analysing their usage and implementation as well as their accessibility to players currently on TQ.

Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.25 17:18:00 - [48] Quote: For the 25x carrier cost (or are standard T2 fit Moms going to be the standard now) why would you get in a Mothership? For something other than solo camping low sec gates?
Jin Jura	Posted - 2008.01.25 17:19:00 - [49] 2 officer neuts, and you can empty a hics cap in 2 maybe 3 cycles, then jump out
Destructor1792 Minmatar Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.25 17:41:00 - [50] Originally by: CCP Atropos what he just said Allow cyno gens to be fitted to only one type of unique race ship maybe (a one high slot ship wonder )? As for Cap ships, I nearly (note i said "nearly") quit the game due to the sheer boredom of actually piloting them! I now look back at the time i spent (or wasted) training for them and wish I never bothered! Having nearly jumped into a mom, I realised that this would effectively kill off the usefullness of my char.. not being able to dock, limited use, chance of POS getting blobbed, leaving an unpiloted one at a POS to go do something else!! No Chance and No thanks. I'm much happier flying standard ships again Some players enjoy using Cap Ships, others like myself don't. Simple as really ______________________________________ *Bringing The Fun Back* I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak.
Buxaroo Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.25 17:44:00 - [51] Originally by: Shamen .....after the past week seeing 3 Motherships being blown up by rather small gangs, its apparent there is a problem. Yeah, it's called fitting X-Large Shield Boosters on a Wyvern What's sad is that most of those motherships had really, really bad fittings, with the exception of the MC mom but that guy got caught with his pants down (his hardeners were not fitted, he was using travel fittings). Yes, motherships are rather expensive compared to a carrier and require a lot more isk to fit properly. And their immunity to EW is the best thing about them. But with a rather large fleet with titans and multiple carriers/dreads, they can make the difference between a dead cap fleet and a surviving cap fleet.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.25 18:47:00 - [52] Quote: TBH, I'd prefer a solo-capable, sub-capital carrier class (something akin to how the Dominix used to be). Four or five high slots, minimal weapon hardpoints with carrier style drone bonuses with massive drone bays (relative to the scale of the class) Oh I would love to see this. All good scifi is full of light carriers, escort carriers, etc, which are little more than launching bays with engines strapped on.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:20:00 - [53] I thought the jedi era ended with order 66 but thats just me
Panteroid The Hoodie Mafia Cosa Nostra.	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:42:00 - [54] Originally by: Shamen An idea i recently thought of - its quite simple really. Motherships - Requires two heavy interdictors with Focused scripts to hold it down from jumping out Titan - Requires 4 heavy interdictors with focused scripts to hold it down These ships were meant to be taken down by teamwork - they are two of the most expensive ships in game and after the past week seeing 3 Motherships being blown up by rather small gangs, its apparent there is a problem. If someone loses their MS to a gang that has only one HIC holding it down.. I would have to say they needed to die. Almost all MOM pilots fit an officer heavy neut. If nothing else, put an ***load of drones on the HIC until he bails. Basically what I am saying, it already should take AT LEAST two HIC's to kill a MOM. That is the least I can see. Them cycling their pts, and getting logistic boosting.
Sprzedawczyk	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:58:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP Atropos Well I'm QA Engineering so I can but suggest to them. And tie them up. And dangle them off the roof. Sometimes they complain that it gets cold up there, but they eventually come round to my viewpoint... I was going to flame you to hell and back for your lag peddling*, but then I noticed this post. QA Engineer. Quality. Assurance. In EVE. Let's just end at this. Unanimously biggest problem in EVE is lag. Lag happens because too many people get into one place. Which happens because people don't like loosing and zergling happens to be the best way to succeed in EVE. Be it fleet battle or market pvp. Fanatically advocating quantity over quality isn't exactly going to help. My solution would be to actually screw battleships and add middle class of ships - something deadly to BS, but very vulnerable to dreadnoughts. With t2 battleship pricetag. Everyone gets new dreamship to train for, zergling has viable counter which by itself cannot be zerged due to it's pricetag. Oh, and dreadnoughts still have some use. For MS and titans - make them ungodly fleet logistics ships. Awesome targeted boosting abilities(remote dmg, range, tracking, defense boosters), traveling improvements (small ships could dock to MS and travel with it, limited reverse jump bridge, etc.) and some general bonuses. Make them uber with a fleet, but totally useless on their own. I can promise you the amount of super capitals would balance itself within a week.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:59:00 - [56] Originally by: CCP Atropos Unfortunately, Carriers were never meant to be the mainstay ships of the fleet. Quote: People inevitably want a solo-pwn-mobile but it is never going to happen. There will always be a drawback to whatever ship you're flying, and if one ship or, as is the case at present, class of ships becomes too powerful in the niches they fills then we have to balance it, since it's not inline with our vision for the game. Presently Carriers and to a lesser degree, their big brothers, Motherships, are this pwn-mobile, solo or otherwise. Sure they have drawbacks, but as can be seen by the simple fact that they're becoming common, and yearned for, something needs to be done. Killing their logistical function didn't change their combat effectiveness too much. Carrier droneswarms are still pretty amazing to behold when they're unleashed, and the kicker is, you can't balance (nerf) that too hard without changing them from carriers into something else entirely. The carrier droneswarm is the heart and soul of the solo-pwn mobile (ok, small gang pwn-mobile, unless you don't mind hanging out in one system all the time). They can quickly and effectively engage targets from frigates on up to battleships just by selecting the appropriate mix of drones for the job. Ewar drones give them an effective extra mid/low slot depending on what they choose to fly. They're VERY powerful and VERY flexible, because their primary weapons they can deploy in great number are themselves still extremely effective, despite some of the Trinity nerfage. You can't kill carriers as desirable combat ships without killing their drones. Kill drones and you may as well remove the Gallente from the game. Your worst case scenario is to simply accept that carriers are going to be the pinnacle of combat power in the current scheme. Motherships and Titans have been given impressive achilles heels, and the only reason anyone ever undocks a dreadnought is to siege a POS. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Sprzedawczyk	Posted - 2008.01.25 20:17:00 - [57] Auto drone targeting module maybe? Plus, killing off fighters really hurt.
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.01.25 20:39:00 - [58] interesting responses so far. To add my few cents. Capitals are not broken, they were planned as a new class to add more depth into combat but ccp lost the plot on this new dimension. Pos wars lead to lag and Pos wars make capital ships needed. More capitals mean more risk (as in isk on the field) and hence more support and more fleet comes and hence even more lag. Really a circle thingy here. Motherships and Titans have one major flaw. When they were designed they were "sold" to the playerbase as something to aim for, something unique and uber. Literally a solopwnmobile dream. When reality caught up with supercaps they were nerfed to hell and back because ccp realized that they greatly imbalance gameplay vs newer players and those who simply cant afford it. This turned the wheel once again, leaving those who invested heavily into those promised superboats in a rather sore spot. The result was that the spend hillarious amounts of cash on a ship which is "abit better" but has severe drawbacks not to mention a big bullseye painted on it. The majority of all current mothership pilots wouldnt rebuy or rebuild one i guess if its not just for the epeen thing. Titans are still usefull but too weak for the pricetag, especially if you only field one precious of your alliance. The idea to battle lag via weapons simply is a big failtrain. DD and Bombs showed that. As for the QA ideas guy, i dont see how anyone in ccp thought it would be a good idea to create two of the most versatile shipclasses in the game, the dictor, cheap and superfast and the hictor, ubertank and superscrambler, both with easy skillchains to be the "anti supercap" scrambler. That these ships would be some of the most common ingame, especially in fleetcombat never came as a surprise. Far smarter would have been to allow dreads or carriers to carry a "capital warpscrambler". The biggest imbalance ingame is the fact that it advertises quantity above quality while not having the ressources to handle the results. Ships from "lower tier" have it too easy to kill above their own weightclass. Imagine there would be something like a negative sig radius on turrets, reducing the amount guns do to "bigger targets" similar to the current diminishing return on targets which are smaller then your weapontype. Roaming gangs would actually need a few bs to kill bs. Fleets would need more support and Capital ships wouldnt melt to hac and bs fleets anymore but require a decent force with the right shiptypes. Nowadays you can kill any pilot in his mothership with 50+ longrange frigs and 2 hictors. Tho digitalcommunist wrote some well thought out post somewhere about zerging and why ppl zerg, so i wont repeat it all again. Just ccp needs to wake up and change the "whys" and not the symptoms. If ppl dish out 20bln + fitting for their ship to be uber and a solopwnmobile in lowsec. Let them. Give ppl a maybe 5% chance to catch them those who really want to get it done will do so. Currently the whiners got the better end of ccp and there is literally a 100% to catch a mom at any given time as soon as he leaves the forcefield.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.25 20:40:00 - [59] Originally by: Sprzedawczyk Auto drone targeting module maybe? Plus, killing off fighters really hurt. In the half dozen times I've been killed by carriers, I've never once seen a fighter fly. Its always been drones, usually Ogre IIs. Fighters seem to be pretty reviled by drone pilots (especially since they leave their brain behind when they follow their targets into warp). Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.01.25 21:03:00 - [60] The only promlem is you cant solo pwn in them with a small support gang, hang on that isnt a problem after all. nothing wrong here please move along and use your ship in the required role
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2008.01.25 21:06:00 - [61] Originally by: Apocryphai My opinion is that CCP have been very clever here. They saw that Moms & Carriers (yes, I know this thread initially was just about Moms but bear with me) were being used in a way that they didn't like. So they announce a nerf. Oh look massive throwing-of-toys-out-of-prams happens, the whining drowns out even the noise of Oveurs personal bree fridge, CCP go "woah woah we were joking, lolz, it was all Zulupark's idea anyway!" and rein the nerfs in. They then carefully design a ship, the HIC, specifically designed to screw with the things people are doing with capships that they don't like. Once this takes effect, as it is now, and people stop flying these ships THEN they'll bring in a bunch of changes that make carriers & moms much more viable as fleet support ships but suck as solopwnmobiles. Everyone goes hooray CCP roxors they un-nerfed our capships! Genius IMO. QFT ... truely genius.. lol *** "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told, I'm a child of the moon and a Goddess among men." Free pint of blood for the Dev who agrees
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.01.25 21:09:00 - [62] Say Atropos, see if you can have one of the designers take a gander at this thread here Flagship idea The OP in that thread has really put some thought into the idea of a Flagship based off of the BS hulls, and so far there has been no dev response in that thread what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Dirtee Girl Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.01.25 21:14:00 - [63] "To address this, there has been an immense amount of internal discussion about where we want them to go, contrasted with what the player base is using them for presently." so you addressed the solo pwn issue by removing the ability to haul y/n? "It's not an easy decision to change them, and as can be seen from the post that was made a few months ago, by CCP Zulupark, about proposed changes, the player base vehemently disagrees to any changes to the status quo, whether it's actually in the best interests of game balance or not." at which point has this become in the best interests of the game or balance if anything the carrier changes ccp implemented where the exact oposite of the intended goal we constantly hear ooh no too good too uber to usefull !!! nay nerf!! nerf!! but did it ever occur to ccp to consider did the player base enjoy it ? what the player base happy with it ? did this ship achieve even anything remotetly as extreme as was fervently reported no , carriers were dying all the time ! capital kills ! fun ! honestly the constant statements that are made about quality and balance and the changes that seem to go in the oposite direction <-> * *
Hitme Harder HERRO KITTY	Posted - 2008.01.25 22:34:00 - [64] Supply can outgrow demand? OH MY GOD BUFF MOTHARSHEEPZ~ AREN'T THEY ADORABLE?
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 23:14:00 - [65] Originally by: Jin Jura 2 officer neuts, and you can empty a hics cap in 2 maybe 3 cycles, then jump out I couldve sworen there was this module that gave you intant cap.... oh wait, there is.
Grim Vandal Caldari Burn Proof	Posted - 2008.01.25 23:42:00 - [66] k so ccp will analyze this situation in 2008. And will make minor changes (to not interrup gameplay???!!!) in 2009 to get it maybe fixed in 2010?! why does it take your 300 man team longer to react than it did take you 20 man team back in 2003. Greetings Grim
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ama-gi	Posted - 2008.01.28 10:39:00 - [67] Originally by: CCP Atropos T Ah, and there in lies where I would like to see combat being. Note, this is only my opinion on the matter and by no means an indication of what may or may not be coming. With the ass covering out of the way, I'd love for 95% of combat to take place at Battleship and below classes. Unfortunately people come into the game and always want bigger and better ships. At present most people run out of resources/time at the Carrier point, since the drawbacks start becoming quite harsh beyond that (inability to dock/etc). Unfortunately, Carriers were never meant to be the mainstay ships of the fleet. I would be over the moon if we could balance things so that peoples first choice for a ship to take into combat didn't involve a cynosaural field fitted to call in the inevitable back up, and it's something I'm constantly debating with the Game Designers. People inevitably want a solo-pwn-mobile but it is never going to happen. There will always be a drawback to whatever ship you're flying, and if one ship or, as is the case at present, class of ships becomes too powerful in the niches they fills then we have to balance it, since it's not inline with our vision for the game. Presently Carriers and to a lesser degree, their big brothers, Motherships, are this pwn-mobile, solo or otherwise. Sure they have drawbacks, but as can be seen by the simple fact that they're becoming common, and yearned for, something needs to be done. To address this, there has been an immense amount of internal discussion about where we want them to go, contrasted with what the player base is using them for presently. It's not an easy decision to change them, and as can be seen from the post that was made a few months ago, by CCP Zulupark, about proposed changes, the player base vehemently disagrees to any changes to the status quo, whether it's actually in the best interests of game balance or not. We won't change them on a whim, but we are constantly analysing their usage and implementation as well as their accessibility to players currently on TQ. The easiest way to do that without altering any gameplay would be to take the jump-fuel requirements and multiply it by 10x ( or some appropriate number). That would make the costs prohibitive enough that they would only be used when absolutely necessary. -- No love for the Matari
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.01.28 11:01:00 - [68] Originally by: Ris Dnalor Originally by: CCP Atropos T Ah, and there in lies where I would like to see combat being. Note, this is only my opinion on the matter and by no means an indication of what may or may not be coming. With the ass covering out of the way, I'd love for 95% of combat to take place at Battleship and below classes. Unfortunately people come into the game and always want bigger and better ships. At present most people run out of resources/time at the Carrier point, since the drawbacks start becoming quite harsh beyond that (inability to dock/etc). Unfortunately, Carriers were never meant to be the mainstay ships of the fleet. I would be over the moon if we could balance things so that peoples first choice for a ship to take into combat didn't involve a cynosaural field fitted to call in the inevitable back up, and it's something I'm constantly debating with the Game Designers. People inevitably want a solo-pwn-mobile but it is never going to happen. There will always be a drawback to whatever ship you're flying, and if one ship or, as is the case at present, class of ships becomes too powerful in the niches they fills then we have to balance it, since it's not inline with our vision for the game. Presently Carriers and to a lesser degree, their big brothers, Motherships, are this pwn-mobile, solo or otherwise. Sure they have drawbacks, but as can be seen by the simple fact that they're becoming common, and yearned for, something needs to be done. To address this, there has been an immense amount of internal discussion about where we want them to go, contrasted with what the player base is using them for presently. It's not an easy decision to change them, and as can be seen from the post that was made a few months ago, by CCP Zulupark, about proposed changes, the player base vehemently disagrees to any changes to the status quo, whether it's actually in the best interests of game balance or not. We won't change them on a whim, but we are constantly analysing their usage and implementation as well as their accessibility to players currently on TQ. The easiest way to do that without altering any gameplay would be to take the jump-fuel requirements and multiply it by 10x ( or some appropriate number). That would make the costs prohibitive enough that they would only be used when absolutely necessary. It would not. Thre is way too much is in this game and many people simply aimn for the biggest ship as a goal. Make the mothership useless and they go buy an offier fit pirate battleship. Yesterday a mission runner contacted me and asked lots of qustions about motherships. He's going to get an aeon. This guy will never ever PVP with it nor will he be able to use the aeon in any effective way. It's just a goal for him. There is many motherships like this about. Doesn't mean it's overpowered. People will allways aim for the biggest most expensive thing out there. That's simply what people in MMO's do (not all of course but many).
gordon cain Minmatar x13 When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.28 11:10:00 - [69] Originally by: Kerdrak "Inmune to all forms of Electronic Warfare" "Inmune to all (almost) all forms of Electronic Warfare" Never argue with idiots, they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.28 11:33:00 - [70] Nah - I think main reason why they are nearing to their mineral cost is the fact that they do not offer any significant advantage over carrier anymore while offering some very considerable disadvantages. They used to have their spot in the field before HiC and carrier ability to jump around battleships nowdays immunity to damps and ECM is not worth extra 10+ bil and inability to dock. The last one is main reason prolly, as it in effect means that you will need separate alt for the ship to log off with it.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.28 11:51:00 - [71] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Jin Jura 2 officer neuts, and you can empty a hics cap in 2 maybe 3 cycles, then jump out I couldve sworen there was this module that gave you intant cap.... oh wait, there is. Hehe
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.28 15:50:00 - [72] the sky is falling Trashed sig, Shark was here
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2008.01.28 16:05:00 - [73] Edited by: Soulita on 28/01/2008 16:05:08 Originally by: CCP Atropos Note, this is only my opinion on the matter and by no means an indication of what may or may not be coming. With the ass covering out of the way, I'd love for 95% of combat to take place at Battleship and below classes. This. Glad to see someone from the development team puts it this clearly. My honest opinion is that cap and supercap useage was starting to get out of hand. There is a thread on CAOD about some battle close to delve that was mostly fought in battleship class and below ships. Seems all sides had a lot of fun, and most would agree one of the reasons for the fun was the lack of caps and supercaps in that battle.
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.01.28 16:17:00 - [74] Originally by: Hexxx Cost? With a money supply as large as we have today, cost really isn't a factor for a significant portion of the playerbase. Inflation may not exist, but a grossly disproportionate amount of wealth does sit with a good number of players. This really shouldn't have come as a surprise. I think that he meant cost as in productionfactor-costs which are higher for capitalships. I would also dare to say that the exchange rate of our currecny has very little to do with the number of capitalships that are being built. This really shouldn't have been to hard to comprehend.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.01.28 16:22:00 - [75] If you're referring to the fall of Querious when you reference 'some action around Delve', then I'd like to point out that the entire region of Querious was takes by Battleship fleets only. Not one single Capital ship was used to destroy 48 or so POS's. Some of the POS's fell to as little as 22 Battleships. However, there have been some fights where Capitals were the only choice. The attempt to kill Shrikes Titan for one: it didn't matter how many Battleships were there, they couldn't do anything because the 40+ min Lag coupled with DoomsDay on Autorepeat equals dead Battleships. I know: I lived thru the first DD, jumped back in, and was only able to shoot for a few minutes before I had to warp out to avoid the second DD.
Lobo Noturno	Posted - 2008.01.28 17:19:00 - [76] Since I am a Carrier pilot, let me give you the rundown of what I think and would like to have: 1) Motherships are Fleet Logistics Ships. I am not talking about repping, any cruiser sized ship can do that. What I really mean is transportation of fuel, ammo and reserve ships to the battlefield. It should an enormous advantage to the fleet, as long as it is fitted and filled with stuff. It doesn't really need hordes of fighters(although it can keep the ones it have now, nothing brilliant). My idea for them is to focus on the clone bay, huge Ship Hangar(think many, many BS replacements) and corporate hangars. It can have fleet bonuses, but the idea is really to be a mobile station.(people might be able to repair on it, if docked, for example) 2) Carriers should be focused on their fleet frontline engagement abilities. Let them keep their fighters and control them(no crappy forced assign after 5 drones), and drop some Ship Hangar and Corporate hanger sizes. It can also keep it's remote repair capabilities, unless someone devises a new capital ship-class to do this. The siege module for it already creates a good balance between focused logistics or focused combat. Fighters need to be checked so that they are ineffective against cruisers and smaller ships, but still work well on bigger ships. A carrier is not that much powerfull in DPS when using heavy drones... At least not when you factor in the cost, and the lack of mobility through jumpgates. I know, I really don't want to make carriers less useful than BSes, but then I've not seen any case where a good BS fleet has been rendered useless by a single carrier. If anything, carriers really show their power in mixed fleets and when in large capital groups, where the support+fighters concentration can work wonders on any defense. Any fool using a carrier for gatecamping or solo-ganking will lose it's ship sooner or latter, cause they're far from invulnerable...(most people that lose ships to solo carriers either weren't paying attention or did something stupid, cause they don't kill that fast...) Lobo
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2008.01.28 17:46:00 - [77] Originally by: CCP Atropos There will always be a drawback to whatever ship you're flying, and if one ship or, as is the case at present, class of ships becomes too powerful in the niches they fills then we have to balance it, since it's not inline with our vision for the game. Presently Carriers and to a lesser degree, their big brothers, Motherships, are this pwn-mobile, solo or otherwise. Sure they have drawbacks, but as can be seen by the simple fact that they're becoming common, and yearned for, something needs to be done. Firstly, I thank you for your responses so far in this thread and I do feel that the Devs try to make the game better but I IMHO I think that sometimes they do fail at this miserably. That said, it is to be expected some times due to human nature, we all fail at some point or another. However, this particular statement is one that I find irksome. If a ship was developed for a "niche" properly then the idea of nerfing it because it performed that task extremely well seems really illogical. I do not mind the idea of Rock, Papper, Scisors with the ship Classes in any way, but the ruining of those Classes by nerfing them so that they cannot perform their intended function is just plain frustrating. If you skill up to fly something who's sole purpose is to Disable the enemy Sensors then it should do that VERY well, while doing everything else rather poorly. If you fly a ship that is designed to Tank Damage then it should do THAT very well and do everything else poorly. The reason I bring this up is because if you continue to make everything balance so that no ship can perform in a Niche role then there is really no point in flying one type of ship over any other. Right now you already have some of that problem going on with the Intercepter, the Interdicter, and the HIC. Who needs an Inty these days? The HIC can do everything it does better, except Tackle Nano ships maybe. Who needs a normal Interdicter for that matter? Who needs Cruisers when BC's do everything they do better? What needs to happen is MORE specailization not less. The idea the Dev's have about making EW very effective only for EW ships is a very good one. They need to expand on that principle. Make each ship class have a purpose, a reason for being in existance, (and I am not talking T1 Vs. T2 here, that is a matter of Isk and SP amounts rather plain and simple, though the T2 should be worth the extra effort) because otherwise you just get left with the lingering question "Why does this ship even exist?". It also adds to the temptation to Blob, why fly specailized ships that cannot perform their task when you could just have more DPS and Tank? Pretty good question IMO. As for the likes of the Titan and younger players not being able to compete with it, that may be true but most younger players have a hard time competing with older players anyway. Titans are so slow and cumbersome it is easy to avoid them, and that is fine as they should be HUGE lumbering giants. However, making them weak in any way aside from their wretched speed and inability to shoot the broadside of a stopped frigat is unneeded. If you are a newer player you SHOULD respect those monsters and learn to avoid a conflict with them until you can amass the numbers required to kill them. After all this game seems to promote the need for numbers all the time which makes having Blobs a requirement, if more ships could handle themselves this would not be so urgent. Anyway, that is my 0.02 Isk on the subject. Breathe some life into your creations, let them work together as a cohesive unit, with that done flying things other than Role Restricted Caps would be a lot more satisfying. +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...! O.o
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.28 17:56:00 - [78] just because it cost you more isk than 100 of the average players earn in a month together doesnt mean that it cant die to 50 average players spending less than 100 million each Trashed sig, Shark was here
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.28 18:27:00 - [79] Originally by: Kcel Chim Nowadays you can kill any pilot in his mothership with 50+ longrange frigs and 2 hictors. Uh, no. Remember that ewar immunity thing? A long range frigate will do maybe 100 dps. 50 of them = 5000 dps, let's say 5500 counting the HICs. That's a laughably tiny amount of dps for a mothership pilot. Well, maybe not the ebayers who fit motherships with x-large boosters and half their slots empty, but a properly fitted mothership can tank 50 frigates until downtime. Not that it will need to, as 20x Warrior IIs will massacre the frigate blob. It may or may not be able to break the tank on the HICs, but that just leaves it a question of which side gets reinforcements in faster. And assuming the mothership pilot isn't an idiot, his backup will quickly kill the HICs and allow the mothership to escape. As for the OP: if you don't want your mothership, I will gladly take it off your hands. And because I'm really nice, I won't even charge you for disposal of this awful ship, I'll come pick it up for free! The simple fact is, motherships are just fine. As long as you stop looking at them like solo pwnmobiles and give them a proper support fleet, they don't really need anything else. They might not be cost effective compared to the same ISK worth of carriers, but EVE is a game of diminishing returns. But they have four key words that carriers lack: immune to electronic warfare. Where a carrier can be damped/ECMed out of the fight, a mothership can't. That's just an incredibly powerful ability, and more than anything else, the reason why motherships cost so much and are worth that cost.
Rheinkraft D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.28 18:40:00 - [80] I certainly dont think moms should be solo pwn ships but I do think they should be specialised more than what they are now in fleet combat. It would be nice for something to be done with the remote ecm and clone vat mods as curently there pretty much useless. I think sok's thread about the 1 extra high slot is a excellent idea and the way forward for moms. I dont know why there is a sudden crash in the market for moms.... Maybe it has lost the 'immune to all forms of ew' tags since the introduction of hics and unsettled players thoughts on them.... whos knows. Under The Black Flag Est 2004
Mourn Navarre Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.28 19:12:00 - [81] Some important quotes in this thread I'd like to point out. Originally by: Apocryphai My opinion is that CCP have been very clever here. They saw that Moms & Carriers (yes, I know this thread initially was just about Moms but bear with me) were being used in a way that they didn't like. So they announce a nerf. Oh look massive throwing-of-toys-out-of-prams happens, the whining drowns out even the noise of Oveurs personal bree fridge, CCP go "woah woah we were joking, lolz, it was all Zulupark's idea anyway!" and rein the nerfs in. They then carefully design a ship, the HIC, specifically designed to screw with the things people are doing with capships that they don't like. Once this takes effect, as it is now, and people stop flying these ships THEN they'll bring in a bunch of changes that make carriers & moms much more viable as fleet support ships but suck as solopwnmobiles. Everyone goes hooray CCP roxors they un-nerfed our capships! Genius IMO. They've been doing this for years and years, directly or indirectly, and it works. Alot of these things get blown out of proportion and nitpicked to death or are based solely on some bias or self-interest. But the point is it works in the long run. Originally by: Asestorian Reading EON issue 1 I notice something: Motherships are designed for large alliance use. Think about that. Now look at those selling the Motherships. People keep buying these things because they're big and cool and they want to spend their ridiculous amounts of ISK, but they have absolutely no need to, and soon find that for their small corp Motherships are more of a pain in the arse than a useful tool. There are some people who knew this anyway but still bought their Mothership, and they are determined to work around the problems that owning such a ship entails. Basically, people aren't buying Motherships because they've realised that they don't need them, and don't have any use for them that Carriers can't already fulfil. For many large alliances Supercapitals in general have a use because they have the infrastructure to support them, where the extra cargo/ship space comes in handy, and the EW immunity helps to keep their Carriers, other Motherships, and even Titans, alive. Out of the mouths of babes..:) I only say that because what is pointed out in EON 1 is not that much different in what was said about battleships during beta and the early days of Eve. Originally by: CCP Atropos They were never meant to be a common ship. The cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them was meant to make them more of a corporate level project, not something that caters towards solo play. This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses. Make it cruiser and below and I'd have to kiss you. :D This is something I have been saying for years. Originally by: Hexxx Cost? With a money supply as large as we have today, cost really isn't a factor for a significant portion of the playerbase. Inflation may not exist, but a grossly disproportionate amount of wealth does sit with a good number of players. This really shouldn't have come as a surprise. All I can really say is No Duh. Levels may not technically exist in Eve but they still kind of do. It is called ISK. The training for the big stuff can be taken care of by just focusing on the one thing.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.28 19:24:00 - [82] Originally by: Rheinkraft It would be nice for something to be done with the remote ecm Make it a 20 second jam like other ECM, problem solved. The concept is good, the only problem is when everyone's fitting insta-lock setups you don't get enough time to take advantage of the jamming before everyone's re-locked their targets. Unless of course it's a laggy node-death fleet fight, but do we really want to be planning for these?
UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp INVICTUS.	Posted - 2008.01.28 21:01:00 - [83] would u please consider making npc buy back mom bpo`s cause when i bought it, i investedin the future at the current point in the game. i saved alot of money tobe able to buy that bpo and now im sort of stuck with it.. yes i whine about it so would any here if they made 17 bill isk mining etc.. it took me a god damn year. and now its worthless. all i ask for is npc buy back.. OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.