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Is it me or do all races have the wrong e-war ???

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Norath84 Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 16:40:00 - [1] Minmatar / amarr range: both are medium range so both of them would like web range, only minmatar has it. TP/TD Amarr guns have optimal>falloff Minmatar guns have optimal<falloff Amarr ship are normal size for there class Minmatar ship are small size for there class So logically the Amarr empire would make tp ship and Minmatar would make TD ships...? Gallente / Caldari Range: Gallente are short range so the web bonus the kronos has fits well. Caldari are long range and if they were to get a ship with a longer web bonus than Amarr/Minmatar it would need to have a strength penalty. ECM / Damps ECM is luck based and works at any range. Damps has no random factors and protect you from hostiles that are far away. the way I see the 2 races Gallente: Chaotic and free spirited Caldari: Orderly and strict So i can easily see a Gallente charging his enemy and hoping the "dice" favors him and tips the scale to his favor. and I see the Caldari being at long range skillfully managing damps with no internal randomness. Warp disruption: with Gallente being the short range race they are I have no clue why they have a range bonus on it, Caldari are the ones that need it. I think thats it... so am I insane or am I onto something here
Norath84 Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 16:41:00 - [2] Reserved
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.01.27 16:42:00 - [3] It's you. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ... General Aesthetics Changes Thread
Falkus Widowmaker	Posted - 2008.01.27 16:47:00 - [4] Caldari vs Gallente Long range vs short range Gallente = short range Dampers + long range = short range Dampers = gallente.
Shinori GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.01.27 16:49:00 - [5] The way you're thinking would overpower gallente. Web range bonus on the most dps and drone boat ships? Yikes!
Norath84 Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 16:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Shinori The way you're thinking would overpower gallente. Web range bonus on the most dps and drone boat ships? Yikes! I never implied gallente with long range webs....
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.01.27 16:56:00 - [7] But you did imply that they were chaotic - in effect, saying that they are immature little sprites with no sense of order. Highly inappropriate. /me gets out his pokemon cards. My pokemans ... let me show you them. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ... General Aesthetics Changes Thread
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.27 17:16:00 - [8] I have just done some reading on the item database and role playing guide. I see that Gallente hates Caldari and Amarr hates Minmatar so why not the electronic warfare are based on racial hatred? Amarr hates Minmatar and Minmatar is about more speed and small size so Amarr has web and target painting bonuses electronic warfare. Minatar hates Amarr and Amarr is about more capacitor so Minmatar has enery drain electronic warfare. Gallente hates Caldari because Caldari likes to shoot missiles and they always hit so Gallente's electronic warfare is jamming. Cladari hates Gallente and Gallente is about short range warfare so Cadari electronic warfare is tracking disruptor and snesor dampener. Snesor dampening because it would force Gallente to approahc nearer to a Caldari before they could start to locke and shoot. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.01.27 18:39:00 - [9] ECM is the longest ranged kind of EW by far, at least on the specialized ships (and ECM is close to unusable on anything but specialized ships). Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Norath84 Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 18:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Ishina Fel ECM is the longest ranged kind of EW by far, at least on the specialized ships (and ECM is close to unusable on anything but specialized ships). Only because the ships that use them atm normally have a range bonus to make them long range T1 ecm 30 opt + 15 fall T1 damp 25 opt + 50 fall
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 18:56:00 - [11] I Totally agree with the TP\TD switch, target painting is even laser based, so it fits with amarr alot. It's great being Amarr isn't it. Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Haurian Commando Gallente Cursed Souls Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.01.27 19:34:00 - [12] I support the TP+nos+neut/TD+web switch, because some of Minmatar ships are speed tankers, hoping they can outrun turret's tracking (helped by the TDs), and want to deplete Ammar ships' capacitor so they cant fire, but Amarr want to slow down the Matari ships (so their lasers can track them), and also make them "bigger" and easier to hit. However, I think that the ECM/damp order is right as it is at the moment, because gallente are close range, meaning that using damps forces the enemy close if they want to shoot you (hopefully inside blaster range =D), but Caldari want to prevent you from shooting you at any range, since missiles dont care how far away you are, as long as they can hit you. --- My Mod autograph collection. Mods, please sign here! ---
Gazghkull	Posted - 2008.01.27 19:52:00 - [13] in a perfect world the amarr will only ever shoot at the minmitar and the caldari will only ever shoot at the gals but in reality you can fly any ship you want, if you wanna play about with damps train gal if you think nos is cool train amarr. there is nothing stopping you putting damps on a amarr ship and nos on a minmitar ship! if you look its often the case that a races EW systems are most effective againt there own race however they also of set some weakness in the ship, nos helps the amarr run there mods webs help arty guns hit damps help gal get into range and ecm helps with caldaris poor missile/rail dps. No change needed! if you want a 40+km web on your curse? well sorry train for a Minmitar its what we have to do if we minmitar wanna 40+km nos.
Norath84 Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:24:00 - [14] I don't believe I ever stated taking web away from minmatar just adding it to amarr as both are medium range
Gazghkull	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Norath84 I don't believe I ever stated taking web away from minmatar just adding it to amarr as both are medium range i agree the amarr need some loveing there electronic attack frigate is pants but giving amarr web range bonuses will make them to deadly.
Taedrin Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Dristra I Totally agree with the TP\TD switch, target painting is even laser based, so it fits with amarr alot. But target painters don't actually really DO anything for Amarr weapons. Amarr don't need another nerf. (TBH, target painters don't really have a purpose, except to boost torp damage on Caldari ships)
MenanceWhite Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.27 21:53:00 - [17] Only thing atm is that whenever nanos are mentioned, rapier/muminn/sabres are also mentioned. Kind of silly that minmatar ships are secondary counter after neuts vs nanos, since minmatar are supposed to be the fast ones. --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.01.27 21:57:00 - [18] Damps force someone to come close to lock you. Sounds idea for a blaster ship. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Norath84 Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 21:58:00 - [19] Originally by: James Lyrus Damps force someone to come close to lock you. Sounds idea for a blaster ship. but once your there they are useless..
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 22:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Franga It's you. No he's right. Every race has ew that kills their own ships most effectively. Ofcourse the logic in this can be debated. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.01.27 22:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Norath84 Originally by: James Lyrus Damps force someone to come close to lock you. Sounds idea for a blaster ship. but once your there they are useless.. Good thing you have blasters then, isn't it? -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Norath84 Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.28 02:32:00 - [22] Originally by: James Lyrus Good thing you have blasters then, isn't it? blasters would be better with ECM than damps blaster/ecm Celestis vrs blaster/rails damp Celestis
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.28 04:10:00 - [23] i have been wondering why amarr gets tds and nos/neuts, when minmatar has webs/tps amarr has big heavy slow ships that are vulnerable to capping out, where as minmatar has fast ships with smaller sig radius
Letias Caldari Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2008.01.28 04:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Norath84 ECM is luck based and works at any range. Proof or STFU _____________________________ Originally by: Damini Frostmane Sex isn't sex unless one of you is crying afterwards :-)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.28 04:28:00 - [25] hmmm well drones have a range of 35km about right? so damps make sense.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.28 05:06:00 - [26] Originally by: MotherMoon hmmm well drones have a range of 35km about right? so damps make sense. 5km per level of scoutdrone interfacing, and 3km/level with ewar drone interfacing
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2008.01.28 05:09:00 - [27] 60km with maxed skills Originally by: MotherMoon hmmm well drones have a range of 35km about right? so damps make sense.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.01.28 09:00:00 - [28] It would seem that the empires came across their EW preferences before they met each other, and have yet to figure out the full workings of the opposing factions more advanced EW boats. Amarr TDs/Nos/Neuts are ideal for taking out other Amarr ships, and before they had to encountered everyone else, that would have been what they fought with most of the time. Civil and other such intra-empire wars would only reinforce the reliance on TDs. They're also stodgy enough to keep using them against the minmatar, who have much less TD-vulnerable weapons. Caldari fighting amongst themselves need long range ECM to deal with the long range ships the other Caldari factions use, and FOFs would have been developed to counter this very tactic (the fact that they work with damps too being a happy coincidence). Gallentean damps seem to be useful for forcing opponents to get in range to be toasted with blasters or keeping then from replying at rail ranges. Sure, the Caldari can work outside of damp range, but Gallente ships (before the advent of T2 rails and Spike) would have a hard time, especially without Battleship support. Minmatar Republic was birthed in fire fighting the Amarrians, and their advanced TP/web technologies were probably later developments. They in all likelihood simply stole Amarrian turret disruptors to use in their revolution, and the web tech came later. Perhaps not even during an active fight, maybe just as 'just in case' countermeasures. Not sure how well the tribes get along with each other, but I doubt relationships would be so cordial if they didn't have a common enemy in the Amarrians. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.28 09:03:00 - [29] Originally by: KISOGOKU 60km with maxed skills Originally by: MotherMoon hmmm well drones have a range of 35km about right? so damps make sense. seems like a huge range then lol. perfect for damps.
Knoppaz Rens Nursing Home	Posted - 2008.01.28 10:54:00 - [30] Edited by: Knoppaz on 28/01/2008 10:55:02 Imo the Amarr/Minmatar swap would make sense. Minmatar ships have the lowest sig and are fastest, so the Amarr would try to slow them down and increase their sig to hit them better. Minmatar autos track better than lasers so they would try to use their speed and tracking to their advantage while disrupting tracking of the Amarr ships and sucking their cap to overcome their tank. Very good point made by OP on this one. Leave Gallente and Caldari alone tho. Edit: Typo
Aramendel Amarr North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.28 12:10:00 - [31] The thing is with all the 08/15 "amarr slavers enslaved my gallantean lovechild to jita" roleplaying people often forget one important fact: The empires are not at war with each other. Let me repeat: The empires are not at war with each other. They are at peace, a shackey one, but still a peace since several hundred of years. The empire still have enemies they openly fight in a real war situation though: the pirate factions. Thats where their racial EW is designed against.
Grytok moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.01.28 12:13:00 - [32] Edited by: Grytok on 28/01/2008 12:14:48 Gallente and Caldari are OK with their given EW. Gallente gets damps and scramrange, because dampening their targets to force them into their own Blaster-Range and scrambling them at long range to have time approaching them. Caldari just jam everything, which is also fine. Amarr and MinMatar however really seem to have the wrong sides EW, when we compare them to only each other. Originally by: Aramendel The thing is with all the 08/15 "amarr slavers enslaved my gallantean lovechild to jita" roleplaying people often forget one important fact: The empires are not at war with each other. Let me repeat: The empires are not at war with each other. They are at peace, a shackey one, but still a peace since several hundred of years. The empire still have enemies they openly fight in a real war situation though: the pirate factions. Thats where their racial EW is designed against. Problem is, that from a RP-POV this might be true, but EW does not work very well against NPCs. Ever tried to jam a NPC? . CCP gave us shiny new graphics. Too bad they removed Anti Aliasing for me :\
Inertial Blood Reavers	Posted - 2008.01.28 12:31:00 - [33] Originally by: Grytok Edited by: Grytok on 28/01/2008 12:14:48 Gallente and Caldari are OK with their given EW. Gallente gets damps and scramrange, because dampening their targets to force them into their own Blaster-Range and scrambling them at long range to have time approaching them. Caldari just jam everything, which is also fine. Amarr and MinMatar however really seem to have the wrong sides EW, when we compare them to only each other. Ammar are the energy race, NOS + Nuets only make sense on AMMAR ships. Ammar doesn't really have missile ships, it is true that Khanid ships are missile ships, but that is only a few ships. What good would a TP bonus do to a Ammar fleet full of Apocs, Geddons and Abbadons? Minmatar on the other hand, got a lot of ships with split Missile and Turret hardpoints, the Tempests, Phoon, Cane, Cyclone, Stabber, Rupture, Bellicose etc. They can all use Launchers, however very few of them got any missile bonuses, the TP allows them to have a missile bonus for the cost of a midslot. Makes sense now? * Reavers are recruiting
Thoran Karlien Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.28 12:31:00 - [34] I think there are two diffrent ways of looking at the EWAR... either you look at, what hurts the other one the most, or you look at, what helps you the most. Damps forces other people within blaster range. ECM lowers damage across the board. Target Painter lights up a target, so that your fast flying gang can still hit it, which it wouldn't be able to do if the target wasn't size boosted. NOS helps refill cap, so the other mods can run longer. While we use them as an attack, you could also use them to boost your own performance kinda. ____________________________ Whine : The only FOTM than never gets nerved or out of style!
Aramendel Amarr North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.28 12:35:00 - [35] Edited by: Aramendel on 28/01/2008 12:36:08 Originally by: Grytok Problem is, that from a RP-POV this might be true, but EW does not work very well against NPCs. Ever tried to jam a NPC? Did you? ECM is actually the one EW which does work against NPCs. However, yes, EW in general isn't that hot vs NPCs. But the thing is that the RP-POV is the whole point of this whole thread. Outside the RP-POV where does it matter that racial EW is most effective vs the same race? The only argument against it is from a roleplay viewpoint, but that one is as shown a bit flawed.
Knoppaz Rens Nursing Home	Posted - 2008.01.28 13:54:00 - [36] Originally by: Inertial Ammar are the energy race, NOS + Nuets only make sense on AMMAR ships. Ammar doesn't really have missile ships, it is true that Khanid ships are missile ships, but that is only a few ships. What good would a TP bonus do to a Ammar fleet full of Apocs, Geddons and Abbadons? Minmatar on the other hand, got a lot of ships with split Missile and Turret hardpoints, the Tempests, Phoon, Cane, Cyclone, Stabber, Rupture, Bellicose etc. They can all use Launchers, however very few of them got any missile bonuses, the TP allows them to have a missile bonus for the cost of a midslot. Makes sense now? Well, Amarr got lots of cap, so it makes sense for the Minmatar to get the Amarr's cap down quickly. Also about the TP, let's take the tracking guide as an example: Heavy Beam I + Multi against 30 sig and 200 transversal Result: 12,84% hit chance Heavy Beam I + Multi against 41,25 (pwnage + skill = max. 37,5%) sig and 200 transversal Result: 27,25% hit chance That means the TP more than doubled the hit chance. Against fast ships with small sig a pretty good thing I'd say.. Pulses could more easily keep up with even more transversal especialy when combined with web. So it absolutely makes sense for Amarr to have Web+TP as well as the Minmatar having Nos/Neut as their EW. They would be trying to negate the advantage of their enemy this way.
Shinori GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:26:00 - [37] Originally by: Norath84 Originally by: Shinori The way you're thinking would overpower gallente. Web range bonus on the most dps and drone boat ships? Yikes! I never implied gallente with long range webs.... Quote: Range: Gallente are short range so the web bonus the kronos has fits well.
Norath84 Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:35:00 - [38] Originally by: Shinori Originally by: Norath84 Originally by: Shinori The way you're thinking would overpower gallente. Web range bonus on the most dps and drone boat ships? Yikes! I never implied gallente with long range webs.... Quote: Range: Gallente are short range so the web bonus the kronos has fits well. Kronos Hull: Megathron Class Role: Marauder Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to large hybrid weapon damage and 2% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level Marauder Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to repair amount of armor repair systems and 7.5% bonus to large hybrid weapon tracking per level Role Bonus: 100% bonus to large hybrid weapon damage, 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams Relevant info for you in bold.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:58:00 - [39] Originally by: Knoppaz ... Problem being Amarr are bad enough already, minmatar are probably the most balanced race and target painters are very niche because web bonuses are very powerful. Capacitor based warfare is still very effective and is one of the few things that stops Amarr being completely obsolete. As for they bloke above stating that Amarr "aren't really a missile race" they're now the second missile race, obviously. Khanid ships have bonuses dedicated to missiles only and require intensive training of the missile skill tree to use, minmatar ships dont in order to be as effective. --------------- you all smell!
Norath84 Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.29 16:19:00 - [40] Wonder if the original reasoning for the race's E-war selection is written somewhere. If any one have a link plz post it. Or the responsible dev could just state it

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