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300 People Fight , when will that be possible ?

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Mrs Dwarf	Posted - 2008.01.30 15:12:00 - [31] Edited by: Mrs Dwarf on 30/01/2008 15:18:04 ...wrong topic
Zothike Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.30 15:31:00 - [32] Edited by: Zothike on 30/01/2008 15:31:34 in planetside there is fight between 400 ppl with almost near noo lag, there is a cap of 144 for each faction and there is 3
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.30 15:45:00 - [33] Edited by: Kerfira on 30/01/2008 15:51:25 Edited by: Kerfira on 30/01/2008 15:46:46 Originally by: Serge Tahlon if the current situation does not allow for large gangs clashing what needs to happen is a redesign as to how soverinty works. Read the infiniband thread. Improving the situation notably will mean multi-CPU grids, and they're not going to do that. I agree that the mechanics has to change, but the only way they can do that is to (somehow) remove the advantage of blobbing, which a lot of blobbers will hate like the plague. Something like the titans doomsday pre-nerf (ie. without the high risk), but only working on large groups would be effective. Simply make it WAY too risky to blob! Another idea I had was to remove intra-alliance/corp standings, and limit alliance sizes to say 2000 accounts. That way, an alliance would be on its own, with everyone else looking the same on the overview, and we'd be without these 'alliances of alliances' which are creating the hugest blobs. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Vladt	Posted - 2008.01.30 16:07:00 - [34] Normally I would think that CCP as a company checks there produkt first and fixes those "big bugs" , then and only THEN the can add content on TOP of it. Afterwise the foundation will break ! The infinband puts the Problem more or less on "hardware" , from my experience with SQL it is always that "hardware" have an effect ( maybe 5 Times ) , SQL Processes or CODE can have an effect of 100-1000 Times faster. I want to do BIG Scale PVP and I dont want to wait for a killmail, I want to see the fight not just the mails. I want to know on which scale I can expect a decent fight , just say 50-50 ? What has to be done to achive that goal ?
Vladt	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:05:00 - [35] so with how many People may I do a "lag free" Large Scale Fight ? Where are the test on singularity ?
Andreask14 Alterum - Infinitus - Fabula Dragons Of Oceans	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:08:00 - [36] 300 only fight in Thermopylae.
Vladt	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:13:00 - [37] I would thing the old "LEAD DEV" are working for White Wolf now a days, so only the "noob" take care about the LAG , and they just dont have the insight in the "OLD" Code. That is maybe also the reason that we dont see so many post !! So the fusion with White wolf for "JUST ANOTHER FANTASY MMORPG" is killing softly EVE ;( Thanks guys
Lori Carlyle Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:26:00 - [38] Regardless of the pure and simple fact, POS warfiar needs blobs, the server can't deal with that style of warfair. Need for speed so far has no visable impact, this new server thingy is noware to be seen and unlikly to be givin to the ever expecting playerbase anytime soon, Hell even the dev's have a made a joke of the word soon(tm) I gave up 0.0 for the reason, waiting for the grid to load is not worth the money, the game is when I can play. regardless of the answers you seak, just admire the fact you now have bloom and other pointless graphic effects and you will be able to walk around in stations soon, and that should be around the same time as factional warfair, planetery combat and other such "planned but will come when we can be bothered to work and not drink" Yes i'm bitter, I used to love this game, now I swap skills and go play another game thats WORTH my money now. ----
Vladt	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:45:00 - [39] One Reason ... why can we not "mark" systems as Hotspots like JITA ? If 2 Parties are fighting over on system for "days" , "weeks" why is it not possible to give that particular system PLUS the next close system a NODE for themself OR a "Mini Cluster " with its own database . Where are the tests , where are the Answers !! Does CCP has a Qualtity Department ?
Xonkra Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.02 13:50:00 - [40] 300!? THIS IS MADNESS! Originally by: Illyria Ambri No matter how you want to say it.. it always sounds like frog clearing throat "Ve zurrendur, dunt schuut"
Liam Liam	Posted - 2008.02.02 15:03:00 - [41] Not any time soon that's for sure 30 v 30 at the moment is pushing it Lag has got worse not better they just choose to add content and people which will make things worse If they can't even solve Jitta they've no hope of solving pvp Theres some easy fixes that would help but they won't impliment any of them they just choose to add content and people which will make things worse For example Fix 1. Remove drones for all except gallante and carriers / capitals adjust damages etc for ships appropriately ( yes drones cause lag theres no real need for all races to have them on most ships ) Fix 2. Make a loading screen so if you are lagged going into a system you don't go in and then see yourself in a pod...or station you go into a loading screen and only appear in system once you have loaded and can see yourself and are relatively lag free Fix 3. Make ship weapons fire in volleys as one or two weapons ( yes tracking 8 different missiles etc takes more comp power than tracking one and multiplying it by 8 )
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.02 19:48:00 - [42] It will never happen. CCP's focus is on adding new players, adding "Second Life"-like gameplay and RMT and on adding unneeded stuff / messing with balance instead of fixing problems. Sadly, despite the subscriber base growing slower than the speed of modern computers is increasing, EVE is becoming slower in the average fleet fight setting. You can imagine the implications of this. I think we will see gameplay changes to counter lag before we see any kind of improvement with lag and the current game mechanics. EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
Pride NL Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.02.02 20:44:00 - [43] Originally by: Vladt Edited by: Vladt on 30/01/2008 12:12:02 Dear CCP, when will it be possible to fight ( not stand !! Lagmonster on !! ) in a system like everyone would expect ? Are you ever doing tests in that Matter ? Can we maybe have "someday" a statemant from a "trusted" source ( Developer ?! ) , when that will be possible OR at least tell us with how many Pilots can be in on Grid to fight and dont lag it out and let the Drones/Fighter fight ? PS: they planing to put EVE on the Steam Plattform and are pushing the "marketing" in Germany too. So guess what they getting money BUT have no solution for the current LAG Problems ?! We are patiant BUT I want to know when to expect RESULTS no Marketing s!&%, IF YOU HAVE NO FOUNDARY THE SKYSCRAPER YOU ARE PLANING, WILL "KILL" YOU I find it very anoying that after all that "need for speed" we still dont have a chance to fight large battle without lag :(( ( Maybe it is time to look into the hourglass and go for BIG changes !!!!!!!! ) Regards It has been possible. Few years ago. But with all the noobs joining and CCP getting attention it has gotten worse. Now they have to bear twice the numbers they did back then... Arrive. Raise Hell. Leave.
Pans Exual	Posted - 2008.02.02 21:06:00 - [44] The main lag cause is gang bonuses. Every time someone cloaks, decloaks, enters or leaves system, or gets blown up, that's another call the serve makes to recalculate gang skills. go in unganged for the win.
Faye Valerii Caldari Exeunt Omnes	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:50:00 - [45] You can say many bad things about WoW ... But when honor points first got introduced, we could at least fight 100 vs 100 in Southshore. And don't underestimate the server load there, with all those aura's, aoe's, fast movement etc ...
Vladt	Posted - 2008.02.04 08:54:00 - [46] Well those guys who fight " normally" in a large Fleet battle are the "old ones" as now a days the Capital Blob is very common. CCP is taking aim now at white wolfe and "new Content" ( great another Damsel ;( ) it leaves them with the wrong resources to cure the LAG. Maybe someone who reads it has more insight in the current development, and can give us a hint. The "Hardware" solution will not bring much good , as we still have "singel" Bottlenecks. The NEW Blade server havent fixed the Problem too !!! Am I alone with that Idee ? Am I paying not to much to entitle me to get answers ? Where is the beef CCP , or has EVE changed to Carebear Only ;( .... more ships more isk
Agif Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.04 10:25:00 - [47] Edited by: Agif on 04/02/2008 10:26:03 Meh scim read the topic and didnt see any mention on this super server IBM & Microsh1te was designing for EVE, and does anyone have a link from ccp on this or is it just rumor based? /Agif --------------- EvEmissions - Level 5 Missions - Updated 22/01/08
Jakus Cemendur Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.04 10:37:00 - [48] Originally by: Agif Edited by: Agif on 04/02/2008 10:26:03 Meh scim read the topic and didnt see any mention on this super server IBM & Microsh1te was designing for EVE, and does anyone have a link from ccp on this or is it just rumor based? /Agif Read the Infiniband thread, that's all about the implementation of that and turning the server into a super computer. That'll be the biggest improvement to lag as it will mean multiple nobes per system.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2008.02.04 11:29:00 - [49] Do you get 300 at Fanfest? Just asking... no reason.... -- Anything I said above is subject to the standard provision: Alts subvert it, and make it untrustworthy.
Vladt	Posted - 2008.02.05 12:15:00 - [50] so infiniband should solve the problem ? is that the answer to why we can play now with 300 Person in a Grid ?
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:02:00 - [51] Edited by: Kerfira on 05/02/2008 17:03:22 Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Read the Infiniband thread, that's all about the implementation of that and turning the server into a super computer. That'll be the biggest improvement to lag as it will mean multiple nodes per system. This will NOT solve the problem of fleet battles. Solving fleet battles will require multiple nodes per GRID, not per system. In the infiniband thread a CCP dev has already said they're not going to do that. Infiniband will help Jita and busy mission systems, but'll have only a limited (if any at all) effect on fleet battles. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Surreptitious Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:35:00 - [52] IMO EVE peaks at about 10vs10. Anything more and the lag becomes tangible and impacts the outcome. Anything over 50vs50 is essentially out of the question unless your OK with a slideshow and the outcome being determined by luck. If you want PVP on a larger scale then just about everyother game on the market does a better job so go pick your poison. CCP has been making claims for the 4+ years Ive been playing and every single one has failed to work or come to fruition. Sure they might make improvements but they are certainly not fixes. And those imporvements are always countered by the growing userbase. At this point EVE is a numbers game for CCP. How many people can they jam in, how much revenue can they generate before they reach the point of no return. The point where no combination of hardware/software can accomodate the userbase, gameplay suffers(more than now if thats possible) and people start leaving. The "point of no return" is a proven valid concept and is literally just a matter of time. Have you tried playing on Sundays? It is literally unplayable for a huge chunk of the population. One of the corps im in has recently put a ban on Sunday PVP because with the cost of cap ships and the EVE lag monster it is to much a gamble. Dont fool yourself, they have no intentions of "fixing" EVE. Maybe their next game, but certainly not EVE. Theyre to far gone to recover now and they already stated the cost asociated with the infiniband thing is simply out of the realm of possibility. Syrup
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:55:00 - [53] Simple fixes: -Wait for the pilot's client to be completely synched before being visible to the rest of the grid. People will wait ten minutes for a fight if the knew they had a chance once the grid loaded. Instead we get pilots jumping into a fight and finding themselves in their clone before the battlefield even loads, which IMHO is unacceptable. -Enforce population-based Graphics Quality so that lower quality models and textures are used on ships in fleet engagements. Turret and weapon effects are automatically disabled when jumping into a new system, and are only enabled once the server determines the new location isn't overloaded. As a side effect, this might keep graphics *****s away from highly populated areas where sharp angles and blurry textures might offend them. -Any ship that is not properly synched up should be emergency warped out to a different grid, even if their client is still active. They can still be probed out, however. Log these desynchs on the SERVER. -Finally, stop rendering every drone, fighter, and missile in space. Most fleet engagements are fought in the overview anyway. Only report to the client the hits that the server determines had an affect, and drones or fighters that are in the client's immediate vicinity. Unless CCP is going to implement friendly fire, cover, and LoS accuracy, having exact coordinates for every object in space updated realtime is a huge waste.
Vladt	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:11:00 - [54] Quote: How many people can they jam in, how much revenue can they generate before they reach the point of no return. The point where no combination of hardware/software can accomodate the userbase, gameplay suffers(more than now if thats possible) and people start leaving. Well that seems nice for "the Momemt" but is not really a "long term" Story. They will end like Sony , when they change to that way. So that would mean a "restart" in about 3 Years ;(
Wizzkidy Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:23:00 - [55] CCP have a good way of making people turn around and "think" this problem is being resolved. Yet as others have stated in the past 3 years I have seen hardly ANY changes in lag in fleet fights. This is why I hardly logon anymore and play, its just non playable in large fleet battles and although small gangs are fun I have had my fair share of small group fights. I like the way CCP promote "need for speed" and other things yet I have yet to see ANY changes that make a decent differance to fleet battles. Are you reading this CCP? Doubt it. Here is the situation I am in if you give a rats ass, I pay my sub's each month HOPING you will fix your game, I hardly logon (personal stuff as well) - yet I would be dragged back to this game IF I saw an improvment, yet I have not. Even with your new "client" and new "gfx" fleet fights are NON playable and unless you give me a stright answer as to WHY and WHAT you are doing then I have had it to be fair. I will pay my subs to support your company for a few more months yet because I'm still hoping you will fix your game. What also annoys me is the way they ignore a system that is at a stand still, you can sit in lag for over 3 hours and they do NOTHING.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:31:00 - [56] Seriously.. Turn based fleet combat... Timed Turns, White wolf can help you with this, When you jump into a system that bob is lag bombing with fighter swarms you join the turn based mode. 20 seconds(?) of watching followed by 20 seconds of clicking things and letting the server think about whats going to happen, followed by everyone watching what happens, followed by more input turns. If you think that would be terrible then the current 5/10 minute turn times that we are experiencing arent any better. What say you CCP? could this be possible? It isnt perfect but by god it would be better than what we have now.
Rutoo Gallente Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:25:00 - [57] Originally by: Pans Exual The main lag cause is gang bonuses. Every time someone cloaks, decloaks, enters or leaves system, or gets blown up, that's another call the serve makes to recalculate gang skills. go in unganged for the win. Incorrect _________________________________________________________ My Second EvE Video Club Seals Not Sandwichs
Suitonia Gallente interimo	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:14:00 - [58] As a high-sec war-deccing corp member, the lag is bareable, as long as you don't fight in, or around mission hubs, everything seems to run smoothly. Had a 19 man engagement in Palas about a week back and everything was functional. I find that capital ships cause a lot more lag than otherships on the grid. Which is why I avoid them like the plague. --- I've always wondered about those Vagabond pilots...
Jolliejoe Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:44:00 - [59] Look at the frontpage... CCP is so full of it... Record this, record that, blablabla... meanwhile even 10 vs 10 is unplayable.. What do they do? Nothing, stick some more **** on the frontpage. Wasn't there something like the need for speed?? I'm not sure what they are smoking but they are not doing speed.
Rhaegor Stormborn Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:20:00 - [60] CCP is losing the battle versus lag. Volition Cult Recruitment Thread

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