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Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.02.07 16:17:00 - [31] Originally by: Scaramunga Scaramai Originally by: Arana Tellen Ah someone brought this one up. Defenders are chance based per missile so this makes 0% difference. Are you being serius? a chance based object still has a chance for it to happen even if its as small as 10% mate. It makes a massive differance if the ship you are trying to kill can shoot your missiles down. Even if one get popped out it will remove 1/4 if your effective DPS and it does happen, alot. (missile launchers) x (missile damage) x (chance of no defender) = damage 8 x 1 x 0.9 = 7.2 4 x 2 x 0.9 = 7.2 --------------------------------- Oh noes! Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal
Phil Miller Ocean Dynamics	Posted - 2008.02.07 16:49:00 - [32] Edited by: Phil Miller on 07/02/2008 16:50:28 Get EFT, and compare for yourself. I'd figure a 60mil sp character would know how to use it. ______________________________________
I'm Spying Dead-i	Posted - 2008.02.07 20:05:00 - [33] Originally by: Phil Miller Edited by: Phil Miller on 07/02/2008 16:50:28 Get EFT, and compare for yourself. I'd figure a 60mil sp character would know how to use it. Ok, lets se.. i've done that many times, and i know the CNR has higher DPS, and i know the golem has better tankability... but i wanted what other ppl's opinion were.. as you can see from this thread there are a lot of differentiating views on which is better, there are numerous threads and posts with different CNR and Golem setups, all of which can be easily setup into EFT. EFT shouldnt be the only reason on why someone should select a CNR over a Golem. One good example is how someone explained that you can use the Golem as a loot/salvager collecter at the same time due to its large cargo capacity. so, next time Phil Miller, be a little more constructive in your mediocre flame attempt.
Fager Xel'Naga Corp	Posted - 2008.02.08 03:31:00 - [34] Bare with me, these setups are all T2, and most of them require you to at least get a CN/dread XL Shield booster for the CPU reqs to fit. I havent found any faction modules in my EFT, thats why. If anyone knows a "cure" for this please tell me Golem torp pros: - Defender safe - Painter and optional sigexplosive rig = GolemTorp>>>CNRtorp (even if the dps is about 950 vs 1100 approx incl drones) - Needs less slots for tank (if you dont mind having a non-23/7 SB that is) - 3 3highs for loot/SB/NOS CNR rules the cruismissiles thou as rigs and painters dont help them as they do to torps. However with 2x painter + 1x rig a golems torp will outperform a CNR cruisemissile and still retain a similar tank. (using factions will result in overkill tank ;) even with 2 painters) Drawbacks: - Requires alot of skills at lvl 5, especially range skills that is not needed for cruise ships. - im sure theres more i cant remember atm I may ofcourse be wrong in my _theories_ as i havent tried all these ships yet, however have flown enough Ravens to know more then the basics, so feel free to flame me downs in any errors. TorpGolem: Note: replace XL SB II with CN XL SB for CPU (or greater XL SB) optional: take out the fourth hardener for a second painter optional2: take out sigexlopsion rig for a flight time rig (will get you to 43km with T1 instead of 36km, and 60+ with javalins) optional3: take out Power Diag for another BCU warning: Sacrificing to many tanking modds for DMG modds might make the tank to risky for its value... however should atleast retain a tank above T2raven tank. Otherwise use a gist XL SB or more tank modds [Golem] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Target Painter II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II Hammerhead II x5 DPS: 984 incl drones and all skills lvl 5 TorpCNR: This ship needs to use rigs to get a decent shield, unless you go for a faction gist. If used with faction gist its possibilities vs the torp golem will increase, however if golem uses it to, he can get more painters... so dunno.. Needs a CO-P and atlease a CN XL SB to fit! - more faction might ease on the CO-P II warning: Tank migth be to risky for the payment, however should be sufficient otherwise get a gist XL SB. [Raven Navy Issue] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Power Diagnostic System II X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo [empty high slot] Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Core Defence Capacitor Sa*uard I Capacitor Control Circuit II Hammerhead II x5 DPS: 1122 incl drones and all skills lvl 5** "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
Fager Xel'Naga Corp	Posted - 2008.02.08 03:39:00 - [35] And for comparison: CNR cruise: optional: Shift T2 launchers for CN launchers.. they are very similar and EFT only has T2 so bare with me. optional2: Take out a BCU for a tanking modd (another PDU probably) warning: the tank with just a CN xl shieldbooster is abit risky and certainly not disconnect proof like most my setups. Should still outperform a T2Raven tank (wich i so far have cleared most lvl4 with yet, hence i put my money on more damage wich in turn ease my tanking) [Raven Navy Issue, New Setup 2] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II X-Large Shield Booster II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 DPS: 715 incl drones and all skills at lvl5 All my 3 setups has similar tanks, Golem even sacrifing more mods then i have still would outtank the others, making it also safer. Hoever sacrificng hardeners fr painters makes the golem as vurnabel to EM as the others wich shouold not be ignored. Anyways, hope somone enjoys my setups and ideas, in my mind the king of lvl 4s in the caldari ships is the Golem with superior damage and tank. The CNR cruise is however close second and in situations i would prefer it (missions with many cruiser/friggs and few BC and extreemly few BS) Torps weakpoint even with maxxed out explosionsig still has probs with cruiser size compared to cruisemissies... "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.02.08 08:08:00 - [36] Originally by: Fager Bare with me, these setups are all T2, and most of them require you to at least get a CN/dread XL Shield booster for the CPU reqs to fit. I havent found any faction modules in my EFT, thats why. If anyone knows a "cure" for this please tell me There is those little tabs under the part where you pick modules, default is 'market' where you see T2 and T1 items, then there is 'faction' with faction modules, also 'deadspace' and 'officer' tabs are there. Now as far as general discussion about CNR vs Golem goes I have used both (altho have currently opted in favor of CNR). CNR is the best for 'gank style' missionrunning (ie 'you dont NEED to tank dead rats') while Golem is king of 'permatanking style' (ie 'I can tank em all till cows come home'). Permatanking is preferred by majority of missionrunners, thus for majority of them Golem might be better option. There is smaller part of missionrunners who need that extra edge to shave off those extra 5 minutes from mission completion time and who often do not loot or loot only select few missions, that smaller part usually prefers CNR's in non sustainable tanking modes depending on their ability to cut down incoming dps fast enough to be able to survive. So in a nutshell, they are different ships. Both are better than the other when fitted specifically for the task they are best suited for. I have yet to see Golem that can do missions faster than my CNR while I do not even dream of being able to tank as hard as Golem in my CNR. I am in the process of building myself pair of Golem's tho as my CNR pair is rather sensitive to lag (and I have started getting that on peak times where I live) to be used when I run missions in peak activity times. Test I did was solo mission completion times for gank CNR vs gank Golem, when I have pair of them I will most likely evaluate my numbers again.
Heelay Ashrum Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies	Posted - 2008.02.08 08:59:00 - [37] Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale Golem is better than CNR under any circumstances, for PvP and for Pve. wrong, wrong wrong ..... check better this ship. Personally i use a Kronos and not the golem but talked a lot with a corp mate that was using a CNR and was claiming that the marauders are crappy. After some talking was clear the fact that in some circumstances he was totally right. and i will explain why: he do missions in caldari space so fight mostly against guristas... and guristas scramle ... a lot Now if u check the sensor strength of caldari bs's u will se that GOLEM have 14 raven have 22 CNR 25 ( if im not wrong). His conclusion ( ad i must agree with him) was that if u are often jammed in a CRN, with a golem u will be permajammed all the time. making this ship a total waste. Different situation if u do missions in other regions. I do missions in gallente space so the jamming problem con happens almost never so im happy with my marauder ( much more effective than any gallente bs). Imho the golem could be nice, but not gaings jamming pirates. Im wondering if CCP thinked about that... the golem is totally worthles for L4 in caldari space, thats ridicolous. Give them at least the sensor strenght of a standard bs !!
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.08 09:47:00 - [38] Originally by: Heelay Ashrum Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale Golem is better than CNR under any circumstances, for PvP and for Pve. wrong, wrong wrong ..... check better this ship. Personally i use a Kronos and not the golem but talked a lot with a corp mate that was using a CNR and was claiming that the marauders are crappy. After some talking was clear the fact that in some circumstances he was totally right. and i will explain why: he do missions in caldari space so fight mostly against guristas... and guristas scramle ... a lot Now if u check the sensor strength of caldari bs's u will se that GOLEM have 14 raven have 22 CNR 25 ( if im not wrong). His conclusion ( ad i must agree with him) was that if u are often jammed in a CRN, with a golem u will be permajammed all the time. making this ship a total waste. Different situation if u do missions in other regions. I do missions in gallente space so the jamming problem con happens almost never so im happy with my marauder ( much more effective than any gallente bs). Imho the golem could be nice, but not gaings jamming pirates. Im wondering if CCP thinked about that... the golem is totally worthles for L4 in caldari space, thats ridicolous. Give them at least the sensor strenght of a standard bs !! And NPC jamming is purely chance based too, and completely independent of sensor strength. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Xequecal	Posted - 2008.02.08 09:51:00 - [39] Actually, Marauders suck for mission looting right now. For both looting while mission running AND looting the mission afterwards. The damned double speed tractor beam doesn't actually pull wrecks within 1500m if your ship has any level of forward movement at all, meaning you can't loot the wrecks. A standard T1 battleship is still a better salvage platform than a salvage-fitted Marauder.
Heelay Ashrum Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies	Posted - 2008.02.08 09:57:00 - [40] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Heelay Ashrum Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale Golem is better than CNR under any circumstances, for PvP and for Pve. wrong, wrong wrong ..... check better this ship. Personally i use a Kronos and not the golem but talked a lot with a corp mate that was using a CNR and was claiming that the marauders are crappy. After some talking was clear the fact that in some circumstances he was totally right. and i will explain why: he do missions in caldari space so fight mostly against guristas... and guristas scramle ... a lot Now if u check the sensor strength of caldari bs's u will se that GOLEM have 14 raven have 22 CNR 25 ( if im not wrong). His conclusion ( ad i must agree with him) was that if u are often jammed in a CRN, with a golem u will be permajammed all the time. making this ship a total waste. Different situation if u do missions in other regions. I do missions in gallente space so the jamming problem con happens almost never so im happy with my marauder ( much more effective than any gallente bs). Imho the golem could be nice, but not gaings jamming pirates. Im wondering if CCP thinked about that... the golem is totally worthles for L4 in caldari space, thats ridicolous. Give them at least the sensor strenght of a standard bs !! And NPC jamming is purely chance based too, and completely independent of sensor strength. As far i know all jamming is chance based, but the sensor strenght affect them.
Ping Li	Posted - 2008.02.08 10:02:00 - [41] Edited by: Ping Li on 08/02/2008 10:04:34 Originally by: Fager And for comparison: Anyways, hope somone enjoys my setups and ideas, in my mind the king of lvl 4s in the caldari ships is the Golem with superior damage and tank. The CNR cruise is however close second and in situations i would prefer it (missions with many cruiser/friggs and few BC and extreemly few BS) You are comparing a torp golem with a TP with a torp CNR without TP so it's pretty obvious the Golem will win. I'm using a CNR which also has a TP fitted and for BS heavy missions it's much faster then a Golem (because of the 10-15% extra DPS). If you have a frig heavy mission the cruise CNR usually wins (also a TP fitted). So for quick missioning a CNR wins. Otoh if you look at isk/hour i'm not sure which one is the best. A golem can easily salvage/loot all BS-wrecks, where a CNR will only get a few. Returning in a salvage ship is usually not worth it isk-wise so that salvage + loot is extra profit. I'm not sure though if that compensates for the lower DPS (though with the ever decreasing LP-value it will be sooner or later) You can select faction items in EFT by selecting 'Faction;'in the box below your item list. Jamming is also chance based and therefore a Golem is jammed as much as a CNR. Oh BTW i forgot to mention i also have a 2-TP torp CNR setup which can do any missions but that one is faction fitted.
Kel Solaar Soulbound. Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.02.08 10:15:00 - [42] Edited by: Kel Solaar on 08/02/2008 10:16:29 Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale How many EW warriors you have encountered in your PvP career? Anyway you can use the additional mid slot, if you truly fear so much EW, for a sensor strength booster. Regarding damage, I doubt CNR do more "PURE" damage than a golem in PvE, and I let you discover why that alone. Seriously with such a statement I guess you had never PVP :) And yeah because of his low sensor stenght a Golem would be primary for any Ewar ships.
Jin Entres Malevolent Intervention Reavers.	Posted - 2008.02.08 10:21:00 - [43] Without commenting on overall performance, it's worth considering that CNR's 7 launchers have tactical flexibility compared to 4 launchers: you can assign odd launcher amounts. Same type of NPC's often take the same amount of missiles to kill which you can learn to memorise to manage your launchers effectively so as to not waste missiles that are in flight when the NPC pops. The difference of 1 launcher in manageability admittedly does not have a huge impact, but it's certainly a benefit worth noting, and could arguably accumulate fast where odd numbers are frequently optimal. --- CEO
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.02.08 10:25:00 - [44] Originally by: Heelay Ashrum As far i know all jamming is chance based, but the sensor strenght affect them. Wrong. A carrier will be jammed by npcs just as much as a marauder. Yes, it's not logical. Yes, npc cheat. ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Heelay Ashrum Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies	Posted - 2008.02.08 11:06:00 - [45] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Heelay Ashrum As far i know all jamming is chance based, but the sensor strenght affect them. Wrong. A carrier will be jammed by npcs just as much as a marauder. Yes, it's not logical. Yes, npc cheat. that's odd. btw, tnx for the info .. i'll pass the info to my corp mate.
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.02.08 11:24:00 - [46] I think the golem is only better in PVP. It has also a bonus on explosion VELOCITY and that is a thing, that you barely ever need in missions or ratting. Missions/ratting its often pretty slow ships. However against nano ships or faster pvp ships, this explosion velocity bonus might help. So whats better for pvp on the long run: ravens with less tanking and less explosion bonus and target paint bonus, or a golem? Personally i think the golem requires too many materials, is too easy to be jammed and that makes its not really wanted. Fix the cost and the jamming vulnerability and people will build them more often.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.02.08 12:33:00 - [47] Originally by: Carniflex Now as far as general discussion about CNR vs Golem goes I have used both (altho have currently opted in favor of CNR). CNR is the best for 'gank style' missionrunning (ie 'you dont NEED to tank dead rats') while Golem is king of 'permatanking style' (ie 'I can tank em all till cows come home'). Being a militant ganktanker myself, I have to disagree with this. I prefer the Golem over the CNR for ganktanking as well. Of course, I am fairly lazy (I prefer to call it 'efficient' though), so I like the convenience the Golem offers. Plus the 4th BCU I can fit on my Golem offsets what, half of the CNRs damage advantage? (I am writing this under the impression that a viable T2 torp CNR setup with 4 BCUs does not exist, please enlighten me if I am wrong) And the rest is made up by better one-volleying, which has my Golem performing just as well as my CNR did of not better. Add the convenience of the tank, the better TP and the free slot for an AB, and you have the perfect ship for both ganktank and permatank. The only thing outdoing the Golem imho are the high damage turret boats against the correct NPCs. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.02.08 13:55:00 - [48] You are correct that 4 BCU T2 siege CNR is not possible, if one wants to have any kind of semireasonable tank also. However in my opinion it more or less averages out vs Golem as CNR has one more rig slot (for third range rig) plus it has better base DPS it starts off from. 4th BCU vs extra rig slot + 16% more base dps PS. That officer RCU needed to pull that off is reasonably cheap even, some 150 mil or so approx last time cheked.
I'm Spying Dead-i	Posted - 2008.02.08 19:39:00 - [49] One of the ideas i like about the golem is the ability to permatank, well almost permatank depending on the fittings... this is a huge plus for me, because the reason is that when im on my laptop, i prefer to not dual account, and when im on my laptop i will be most likely on a wireless connection. We all know how unstable some wireless conenctions are, and i would hate to loose a ship while doing a mission because of a lame connection drop Originally by: Jin Entres Without commenting on overall performance, it's worth considering that CNR's 7 launchers have tactical flexibility compared to 4 launchers: you can assign odd launcher amounts. Same type of NPC's often take the same amount of missiles to kill which you can learn to memorise to manage your launchers effectively so as to not waste missiles that are in flight when the NPC pops. The difference of 1 launcher in manageability admittedly does not have a huge impact, but it's certainly a benefit worth noting, and could arguably accumulate fast where odd numbers are frequently optimal. nice argument.. i tend to do that a lot, assigning 2 or 3 cruise launchers to certain frigates and/or cruisers
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild	Posted - 2008.02.08 20:37:00 - [50] On the topic of Defenders, Cruise Missiles, and Torpedoes: Regardless of RoF, number of defenders, chance of defenders hitting, etc., there is one fact that gives Toepedoes a very key edge over Cruise Missiles. Torpedoes have more HP than Cruise Missiles and can survive a Defender hit whereas a single Defender hit will always take out a Cruise Missile. Now, this is true regardless of the ship that fired them, but you can see why Torpedoes have another advantage over Cruise Missiles in terms of damage output. Of course, their other stats (range, explosion radius and velocity, etc.) hurt them if you don't take them into account. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Fager Xel'Naga Corp	Posted - 2008.02.08 20:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Ping Li Edited by: Ping Li on 08/02/2008 10:04:34 Originally by: Fager And for comparison: Anyways, hope somone enjoys my setups and ideas, in my mind the king of lvl 4s in the caldari ships is the Golem with superior damage and tank. The CNR cruise is however close second and in situations i would prefer it (missions with many cruiser/friggs and few BC and extreemly few BS) You are comparing a torp golem with a TP with a torp CNR without TP so it's pretty obvious the Golem will win. I'm using a CNR which also has a TP fitted and for BS heavy missions it's much faster then a Golem (because of the 10-15% extra DPS). If you have a frig heavy mission the cruise CNR usually wins (also a TP fitted). So for quick missioning a CNR wins. Otoh if you look at isk/hour i'm not sure which one is the best. A golem can easily salvage/loot all BS-wrecks, where a CNR will only get a few. Returning in a salvage ship is usually not worth it isk-wise so that salvage + loot is extra profit. I'm not sure though if that compensates for the lower DPS (though with the ever decreasing LP-value it will be sooner or later) You can select faction items in EFT by selecting 'Faction;'in the box below your item list. Jamming is also chance based and therefore a Golem is jammed as much as a CNR. Oh BTW i forgot to mention i also have a 2-TP torp CNR setup which can do any missions but that one is faction fitted. if you use 3 hardeners + TP on CNR, you can use 2x TP and 3 hard on golem (and TP bonus) and still retain a superior shield and damage. (and ofcourse match up 3 against 2 TPs with faction tank) Golem can sacrifice tank rigs for Gank riggs (1range + 1explosion sig) while CNR has 3 slots, more are needed on tank unless you got imba gist stuff ;) - then i guess you can match it up better. i totally agree and said so before, against cruiser heavy missions, Cruisemissies wins.. friggs is smallfactor when you got drones... Loot in many missions will often double your bounty income, so if your looting and not salvaging a maurouder is nast isk/time++ then. P.S - Thanks for the tip on faction stuff (these options where greyed out when i looked around couse of not having selected a module that had a faction option ;) ) "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
I'm Spying Dead-i	Posted - 2008.04.03 19:37:00 - [52] Edited by: I''m Spying on 03/04/2008 19:37:28 here is the setups i've been using lately... like the golem a lot actually... ------------------------------------------ [Golem, Misson Cheap] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Cap Recharger II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I -------------------------------- And my other -------------------------------- [Golem, Mission - Faction 2] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Power Diagnostic System II Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I -------------------------------------------------------
Galvanized	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:15:00 - [53] Edited by: Galvanized on 04/04/2008 15:15:17 And if you've read this far and want to buy a " Golem " contact me .I wont say the price i sell for here as it will start a huge market debate etc but im sure you'll be happy .
Einherji Mesric Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:39:00 - [54] I think ppl are misunderstanding the Golem, of course the cnr can do more dam with cruise missiles but, thats not the point the golem is made for ratting/missions. I have done my share of missions and I would pick the golem over the cnr anyday, so what if the CNR can do a little more dam but you are still gonna do it faster in a Golem if you loot/salvage, as you dont need to get a dedicated ship for loot/salvage. It's not just about damage it's about function.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:48:00 - [55] Tbh anyone fitting cruise missiles to a Golem is also misunderstanding it ;) There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Ed Travelz	Posted - 2008.04.04 20:30:00 - [56] I run Both. I find that the Golem has an edge in saving time in looting and saving ISK in replacing Faction Cruise missiles. As for the tank, Golem also has the edge. But the raven does have a slightly better DPS. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Hait	Posted - 2008.04.04 21:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Arana Tellen (missile launchers) x (missile damage) x (chance of no defender) = damage 8 x 1 x 0.9 = 7.2 4 x 2 x 0.9 = 7.2 Bad maths. 10% chance one of your missiles will be defended.... If this occures then -> damage output for raven = 71 __________________ damage output for golem = 32
Neuvik	Posted - 2008.04.05 00:35:00 - [58] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Tbh anyone fitting cruise missiles to a Golem is also misunderstanding it ;) misunderstanding what exactly? care to explain for those of us that are confused and misunderstanding it? ----- for (i=0; i<n=1337; i++) {while (start sig != true) if (sig_within_rules(sig)) {show sig;}}} http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2672/deepspacegg5.gif
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.04.05 00:56:00 - [59] Originally by: Hait Originally by: Arana Tellen (missile launchers) x (missile damage) x (chance of no defender) = damage 8 x 1 x 0.9 = 7.2 4 x 2 x 0.9 = 7.2 Bad maths. 10% chance one of your missiles will be defended.... If this occures then -> damage output for raven = 71 __________________ damage output for golem = 32 I suppose you still don't get what they're trying to say. Each and every missile launched at an npc using defender missiles has a chance to trigger a defender. This has nothing to do with volleys or anything such. In this aspect you're not worse of sending your missiles one by one, than in a cluster/volley. The chance of a golem losing a a missile to defenders per volley would be 1-0.9^4(35%), the chance of a CNR losing a missile to defenders per volley would be 1-0.9^7(52%). The chance of losing two would be (1-0.9^3)0.35 for the golem and (1-0.9^6)0.52 for the CNR. Add RoF to this and you'll soon see that CNR and Golems are EXACTLY as affected by Defenders - in missions.(0.52/0.75 == 0.35 * 2, and the fact that it won't add up exactly is just a rounding error). For PvP the Golem would be more vulnerable to defenders - yes. But contrary to the question about how often ECM is used in pvp - asking how often defenders are viably used in pvp is motivated. Postcount: 707766
Dearest Wish	Posted - 2008.04.05 13:50:00 - [60] Edited by: Dearest Wish on 05/04/2008 13:56:02 If you don't fit your golem like this, or better (meta wise), you shouldn't be flying it. pack some t2 javs for BS's that orbit past 40km. 1.25k DPS with the wires (you should have if you're flying a golem). This will tank every level 4 mission blind-folded. You'll melt everything. If you need more tank (because youre terrible), get a crystal set. [Golem, New Setup 1] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Gist C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Dark Blood Cap Recharger Dark Blood Cap Recharger Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 e; You can put a 100mn Domi/Gist AB instead of one of the CR's. With wirrings it'll last for about 50 minutes like that. This allows you to avoid ever having to use Javs since you top speed will be about 750m/s+

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