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I'm Spying
Dead-i
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Posted - 2008.02.06 18:43:00 -
[1]
Ok...
Im stuck in my decision in selecting a Navy Raven or a Golem for mission running. Its been a few years since I've done lvl 4 missions.. the last time i did a lvl4 was before the torp changes when u can use just 3 torps to kill a frigate, and only needed bs lvl 3 and torp lvl 3.
Anyways, The char that i will be using for it, has 9.5mill sp in missiles, with cruise/torp spec lvl4. Also has 5mill in electronics/engineering and 13mill in gunnery. I have caldari/gallante bs lvl5... basically, i have a strong shield/armor tank and good missile/hybrid weaponry skills (60mill sp pvp char)..
From my understanding.. a Golem has 8 "Effective" missile turrents, which technically should out dps a torp navy raven. The tank i need isnt something thats really important, since i will be having someone with logistics, but i still prefer something that can give me the most dps, without sacrificing tank, kinda like a normal "mission running raven."
atm, im leaning towards a Navy Raven because i read in a few posts that the cnr has better DPS+tank, I also plan on fitting some missile rigs, like Warhead Calefaction Catalyst and Warhead Flare Catalyst.
discuss.
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MalVortex
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Posted - 2008.02.06 18:52:00 -
[2]
CNR has higher theoretical DPS with its ROF bonus. Golem has higher alpha strike with its damage bonus. You don't use torps for missions anymore, its all about the cruise missiles.
So, your choices come down to slightly higher overall DPS with the CNR, or a higher alpha-strike from the golem. The advantage the alpha strike provides is the ability to potentially 1-shot cruisers and some BCs, where the CNR might have overkill on those targets.
In the end, I don't think you can really theorycraft which one will be "better". Pick one and see how you like it, sell it and try the other later on if you like. Both will do very well.
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Cassandra Beckinsale
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:00:00 -
[3]
Golem is better than CNR under any circumstances, for PvP and for Pve.
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I'm Spying
Dead-i
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:04:00 -
[4]
thanks for the input MalVortex, didnt think of cruise missiles as being a viable weapons platform for missions.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:04:00 -
[5]
Edited by: goodby4u on 06/02/2008 19:05:15
 Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
Golem is better than CNR under any circumstances, for PvP and for Pve.
PVP?I seriously wouldnt take either,golem is too easy to jam and the cnr doesnt have a niche in pvp...PVE?for missioning the golem has a higher tank and is more usefull if you loot the wrecks however if you just zoom through missions like me go for the cnr,more dps=faster running missions.
This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth |
Cassandra Beckinsale
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:15:00 -
[6]
Originally by: goodby4u
Edited by: goodby4u on 06/02/2008 19:05:15
Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
Golem is better than CNR under any circumstances, for PvP and for Pve.
PVP?I seriously wouldnt take either,golem is too easy to jam and the cnr doesnt have a niche in pvp...PVE?for missioning the golem has a higher tank and is more usefull if you loot the wrecks however if you just zoom through missions like me go for the cnr,more dps=faster running missions.
How many EW warriors you have encountered in your PvP career? Anyway you can use the additional mid slot, if you truly fear so much EW, for a sensor strength booster.
Regarding damage, I doubt CNR do more "PURE" damage than a golem in PvE, and I let you discover why that alone.
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MalVortex
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:19:00 -
[7]
Oh, I almost forgot. The Golem uses sufficiently less ammunition that using faction cruise missiles may very well become viable. Considerably better dps = faster isk, potentially/hopefully offsetting the cost of those faction cruises. If you find the math works out, a faction cruise golem may be the best bet of all.
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xyeLz
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:21:00 -
[8]
CNR has more base dps as it has a RoF bonus.
However, what one must remember is:
- Golem uses less than half the ammo, thus saving not only space, but very much costs.
Faction ammo can be 10x as expensive as regular ammo and it increases dps quite a bit. Spending say half the ammo means you cut into your profits much less than a CNR would.
- Also there's the looting bonus of course, very important. You tractor at 1.000 m/s instead of 500, and tractor from 40k instead of 20k. You can also fit multiple tractors and salvagers.
And why this is so important.. Well from my experience I've gotten say 5-10m in bounties and often 15-20m in loot. This means I get over half my profit from actually looting, being able to do it much much faster increases profits loads, it really does.
- Capacitor bonus, 32% more cap and a higher cap buffer, nothing a cap rig gives.
- The fact that most ships are smaller than BS or even BC. A 35% bonus on a Target Painter can really make big DPS differences.
- Higher alpha strike, it helps. Killing 80% of a BC when a Golem could do it in one volley saves extra volleys.
- Higher resists, don't forget it. Higher resists on Golem means a better tank is available.
- 35% boost ammount, wheeh.
All in all, a Golem is a really nice ship, no doubt about it. With the extra tank it's worth fitting faction, and the lower ammo usage means faction ammo is viable.
A great end-game ship. CNR is amazing too, but a Golem is imo better. The above post was from a PvE perspective.
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Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:24:00 -
[9]
Quote:
How many EW warriors you have encountered in your PvP career? Anyway you can use the additional mid slot, if you truly fear so much EW, for a sensor strength booster.
Regarding damage, I doubt CNR do more "PURE" damage than a golem in PvE, and I let you discover why that alone.
ECM drones are quite common now and even lights will keep a marauder well jammed.
When speaking on cruise missiles the CNR would most certainly do more damage than the golem in both pve and pvp. However the golem gets 2 things that work well in it's favor, the first is a better capacitor allowing it to fit bay thrusters rather than CCC's and TP's to boost sig radius for torps. Shooting torps to 60km with 2x TP's is a better alternative than cruises on a golem for pve. I would hesitate to bring a golem into pvp because of the horrible sensor strength. A single ECCM mod brings it to the same level of a CNR which can still be easily jammed by a dedicated ECM boat or medium/heavy ECM drones.
-=^=-
"Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Pantaloon McPants
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:27:00 -
[10]
The golem was designed as a one stop pve shop ...
* no problems with fittings
* save ammo
* has nice alpha
* save time by tractoring & salvaging from range on the go!
* huge cargo bay so no goodies get left behind
* nice tank - 7.5% rep bonus per marauder level!
* tasty tank
* its golden (well a goldeny brown)
only down side is the price, a few hundred more then a CNR, but im sure it will pay itself off in the long run.
Im sure the CNR is like .222222222345% quicker but if you also run a salvager alt, you can now get rid of it and turn it into a dps/tank buddy to quicken things along even more.
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I'm Spying
Dead-i
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:32:00 -
[11]
Interesting view xyeLz, I might actually get a Golem. I never thought about the tractor beam bonus, nor the options of having all those extra hi slots.
Thanks for the input :)
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2008.02.06 20:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: MalVortex
You don't use torps for missions anymore, its all about the cruise missiles.
You need to go and buy some clue. Torps still, if not even more so than before, outclass cruise, you just have to use T2 launchers now so you can fit Jav torps for stuff beyond 35ish km, and you cannot permatank. But permatanking is an anachronism anyway tbh, you just lose ISK by doing that. Unless you are running out of Motsu or something, but then you need brain surgery anyway.
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Veryez
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Posted - 2008.02.06 20:51:00 -
[13]
Leandro has it right, but torps vs cruise missiles is pretty much a matter of personal choice in missions. Setup correctly a t2 torp golem with an AB to catch the BS's that try to keep range has more than enough tank and gank for any lvl 4 and is a better choice, for me, than a torp CNR. For Cruise missiles the CNR is my ship of choice since it can get higher DPS and tank if fitted w/faction/deadspace gear (and why wouldn't you?). Neither one is significantly better than the other despite what some say. Some missions one will outshine the other by a small amount, but either one just walks through lvl 4's.
My suggestion to you is get a golem and outfit it w/t2 gear. It is fairly cheap and can rip through missions. When you get plenty of cash and get bored then splurge and buy a fully faction/deadspace fitted CNR. Try it for a while and keep the one you like best (or keep both  ). If you chose to sell one you won't really lose much iskies anyway.
Oh and NEVER loot a lvl 4 mission in your mission ship. 
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Goonga Malungaboonga
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Posted - 2008.02.06 21:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Veryez
Oh and NEVER loot a lvl 4 mission in your mission ship.
Just curious, why not?? I understand about looting a can, but how can anyone trick you into looting someone elses wreck??
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Veryez
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Posted - 2008.02.07 02:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Goonga Malungaboonga
Just curious, why not?? I understand about looting a can, but how can anyone trick you into looting someone elses wreck??
Like everything else in eve, a ship setup to perform one thing well will always beat a ship trying to do many things. A dedicated salvager/looter will carry more tractors and salvagers, have more cargo expanders, have salvage rigs (or cargo expander rigs) have an AB for deadspace looting and a MWD for non-deadspace looting, tons of cap and perform far better/faster than any mission ship. The Hurricane is my favorite for this, but a dedicated looting Marauder would be even better. 
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Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2008.02.07 05:57:00 -
[16]
Here's a Torp Golem setup:
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Amarr Navy Capacitor Power Relay
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Amarr Navy Cap Recharger
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Hammerhead II x5
Nice thing about this setup that a lot of people really underestimate is that torps need to be hit multiple times by defenders to be blown up and it's very unusual for the same torp to be hit the necessary 3 times. Which is basically a 20% increase in damage from cruises and you can shoot to nearly 60km with the bay thrusters. Tank is a little weak for being a golem with gist fit but it's good enough to handle in lvl4 mission, especially with having 900-1100 DPS depending on your opponents range.
-=^=-
"Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Hectaire Glade
Forum Jockey
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Posted - 2008.02.07 08:20:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Veryez
Like everything else in eve, a ship setup to perform one thing well will always beat a ship trying to do many things. A dedicated salvager/looter will carry more tractors and salvagers, have more cargo expanders, have salvage rigs (or cargo expander rigs) have an AB for deadspace looting and a MWD for non-deadspace looting, tons of cap and perform far better/faster than any mission ship. The Hurricane is my favorite for this, but a dedicated looting Marauder would be even better.
QFT! run your missions in a CNR or Rattlesnake, come back and hoover up on a Golem or Kronos, job done in 1/2 the time.
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fugimi
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Posted - 2008.02.07 10:32:00 -
[18]
a Golem for the most parts will make a better lvl 4 mission ship, IF your skills are proper.
by saying better i mean it will be a better profit maker.
the reasons for it are quite simple.
1: the ability to fit a proper T2 Torpedo Setup.
upto 900dps with T2 javelin at 52km range using only 1 missile range rig.
enough to reach all far orbiting ships.
and 1100-1200dps with T2 rage or Faction Torps at the range of 35km.
2: the ability to gather all wrecks to one or several spots.
this will make coming back with a salvage ship and looting/salvaging way more
faster, and eliminate the agility disadvantage of using BC/BS's for loot/salvage.
all this with a stronger tank then a cnr and large cargo bay which can be used for cap boosing among other things.
depending on your skills and preferances there are quite a few viable setups which work well with the golem.
here's a suggestion... or few:
High: 4xT2 siege launchers, 3xtractor beams
Mid: 1xTarget Painter 2xDG Inv Fields 1xShield Boost Amps II
1xGist C,B,A,X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
2x of whatever u think is best for ur ship, style, or mission:
AB.
another TP.
another Hardener or SB amp.
Cap Booster.
Low: 3xDG BCU
1xFaction CPR
Rigs 1xHydraulic Bay Thruster I/II
1xCCC I/II
you can use 2 missile rigs and compensate for cap in the mids instead, if ur range skills r not perfect.
or a dmg rig for, duh.. more dmg, but also a way to compensate for removing a BCU which will enable the option for another CPR or a damage control and allow even more flexible setup customizing.
did u notice how everything fit on a golem ? try fitting all that on a cnr 
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Durzel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.07 11:45:00 -
[19]
How big of an issue is the sensor strength though?
I appreciate that using a Golem in PvP is probably not the best idea, but my understanding is that the Golem has pretty poor sensor strength - therefore a lot more likely to be jammed during missions?
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fugimi
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Posted - 2008.02.07 12:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Durzel
How big of an issue is the sensor strength though?
I appreciate that using a Golem in PvP is probably not the best idea, but my understanding is that the Golem has pretty poor sensor strength - therefore a lot more likely to be jammed during missions?
Afaik npc jamming works differnt from player pvp.
Its based on % and have nothing to do with your sensor strength.
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Bradstone
Team Squirrel
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Posted - 2008.02.07 12:04:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Durzel
How big of an issue is the sensor strength though?
I appreciate that using a Golem in PvP is probably not the best idea, but my understanding is that the Golem has pretty poor sensor strength - therefore a lot more likely to be jammed during missions?
Not really a problem in pve if like me you have an alt boosting your sensors, get mine from 13 to 93 lol. I use the Kronos but the sensors are round about the same me thinks. But even without boosting, you can still complete missions at least 30% faster then a cnr . Which i tend to use up looting and salvaging, bottom line is the cnr never really paid for itself when i used one, the Kronos and the Golem would within about 5 days to a week depending on how often you mission run.
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Durzel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.07 12:15:00 -
[22]
I suppose the only issue then is the cost, as it's still twice the price of a CNR. Is it likely to come down a lot in price over the coming few months? (I guess that's a bit of a crystal ball question)
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Bradstone
Team Squirrel
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Posted - 2008.02.07 12:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Durzel
I suppose the only issue then is the cost, as it's still twice the price of a CNR. Is it likely to come down a lot in price over the coming few months? (I guess that's a bit of a crystal ball question)
These ships pay for themselves, they are the best pve ships i've seen (please donÆt nerf them now i said that )
DonÆt look at the price for it will pay for itself, IÆm sure the price will slowly go down, but of course the laws of supply and demand will be the factor in how much.
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wide
Gallente
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.07 12:39:00 -
[24]
My alt flies a Golem and initially i hated it. It cost way more than my CNR and delivered less damage. The tank was good but so is a Drake's.
Marauders 5, faction cruise and overheating certainly make the Golem awesome for missions. However, where it really rocks is in pvp with faction torps and overheating.
The numbers, bonus, benefits and deficits can be debated forever, although from experience the Golem is a very nice piece of kit.
(BTW a crystal set is a very useful bonus) |
Scaramunga Scaramai
Amarr
Filthy Scum
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Posted - 2008.02.07 13:11:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Scaramunga Scaramai on 07/02/2008 13:12:55
I guess it depends entirely on where you are missioning as no one here seems to ever mention the effect of Defender missiles from the Gurista rats. The golem only fires 4 rounds of ammo to reach its 8 effective shots. The defenders the gurista rats can shoot 1 - 2 of these down per volley you shoot. In this situation the CNR is better in every way as it fires 7 missiles instead of 4.
If you mission in caldari space / rat against gurista choose the CNR / rattlesnake / navy mega as they are the daddies.
edited as i am a gimp and can't spell
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Arana Tellen
Gallente
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2008.02.07 13:35:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Scaramunga Scaramai
Edited by: Scaramunga Scaramai on 07/02/2008 13:12:55
I guess it depends entirely on where you are missioning as no one here seems to ever mention the effect of Defender missiles from the Gurista rats. The golem only fires 4 rounds of ammo to reach its 8 effective shots. The defenders the gurista rats can shoot 1 - 2 of these down per volley you shoot. In this situation the CNR is better in every way as it fires 7 missiles instead of 4.
If you mission in caldari space / rat against gurista choose the CNR / rattlesnake / navy mega as they are the daddies.
edited as i am a gimp and can't spell
Ah someone brought this one up. Defenders are chance based per missile so this makes 0% difference.
---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
*moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Scaramunga Scaramai
Amarr
Filthy Scum
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Posted - 2008.02.07 14:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Arana Tellen
Ah someone brought this one up. Defenders are chance based per missile so this makes 0% difference.
Are you being serius? a chance based object still has a chance for it to happen even if its as small as 10% mate. It makes a massive differance if the ship you are trying to kill can shoot your missiles down. Even if one get popped out it will remove 1/4 if your effective DPS and it does happen, alot.
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Darkonian
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Posted - 2008.02.07 14:50:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Darkonian on 07/02/2008 14:53:04
Edited by: Darkonian on 07/02/2008 14:51:11
Edited by: Darkonian on 07/02/2008 14:50:27
Originally by: Scaramunga Scaramai
Even if one get popped out it will remove 1/4 if your effective DPS and it does happen, alot.
If two get popped on a 8 missile volley, you will also loose 1/4 of your effective DPS. This is math.
If there is 10% chance to loose a missile, if you fire 100 missiles, 90 will hit the target, if you launch 50 with 100% more damage, 45 will hit, you loose 10% of your dps in any case.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.02.07 15:20:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Veryez
Originally by: Goonga Malungaboonga
Just curious, why not?? I understand about looting a can, but how can anyone trick you into looting someone elses wreck??
Like everything else in eve, a ship setup to perform one thing well will always beat a ship trying to do many things. A dedicated salvager/looter will carry more tractors and salvagers, have more cargo expanders, have salvage rigs (or cargo expander rigs) have an AB for deadspace looting and a MWD for non-deadspace looting, tons of cap and perform far better/faster than any mission ship. The Hurricane is my favorite for this, but a dedicated looting Marauder would be even better.
Not to nitpick but you CAN salvage while you're doing the mission too, and that being the case the Golem does that job remarkably well. It's the only loot I ever pick up because I'm lazy.
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Tenpun M
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Posted - 2008.02.07 16:05:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Hectaire Glade
Originally by: Veryez
Like everything else in eve, a ship setup to perform one thing well will always beat a ship trying to do many things. A dedicated salvager/looter will carry more tractors and salvagers, have more cargo expanders, have salvage rigs (or cargo expander rigs) have an AB for deadspace looting and a MWD for non-deadspace looting, tons of cap and perform far better/faster than any mission ship. The Hurricane is my favorite for this, but a dedicated looting Marauder would be even better.
QFT! run your missions in a CNR or Rattlesnake, come back and hoover up on a Golem or Kronos, job done in 1/2 the time.
So pls tell what magical items do you both put in the left over high slots that make a tractor fitted marauder gimped? It's so easy to loot as you kill you're wasting your time with a salvage ship imo.
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Arana Tellen
Gallente
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2008.02.07 16:17:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Scaramunga Scaramai
Originally by: Arana Tellen
Ah someone brought this one up. Defenders are chance based per missile so this makes 0% difference.
Are you being serius? a chance based object still has a chance for it to happen even if its as small as 10% mate. It makes a massive differance if the ship you are trying to kill can shoot your missiles down. Even if one get popped out it will remove 1/4 if your effective DPS and it does happen, alot.
(missile launchers) x (missile damage) x (chance of no defender) = damage
8 x 1 x 0.9 = 7.2
4 x 2 x 0.9 = 7.2
---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
*moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Phil Miller
Ocean Dynamics
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Posted - 2008.02.07 16:49:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Phil Miller on 07/02/2008 16:50:28
Get EFT, and compare for yourself.
I'd figure a 60mil sp character would know how to use it.
______________________________________
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I'm Spying
Dead-i
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Posted - 2008.02.07 20:05:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Phil Miller
Edited by: Phil Miller on 07/02/2008 16:50:28
Get EFT, and compare for yourself.
I'd figure a 60mil sp character would know how to use it.
Ok, lets se.. i've done that many times, and i know the CNR has higher DPS, and i know the golem has better tankability... but i wanted what other ppl's opinion were.. as you can see from this thread there are a lot of differentiating views on which is better, there are numerous threads and posts with different CNR and Golem setups, all of which can be easily setup into EFT. EFT shouldnt be the only reason on why someone should select a CNR over a Golem. One good example is how someone explained that you can use the Golem as a loot/salvager collecter at the same time due to its large cargo capacity.
so, next time Phil Miller, be a little more constructive in your mediocre flame attempt.
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Fager
Xel'Naga Corp
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Posted - 2008.02.08 03:31:00 -
[34]
Bare with me, these setups are all T2, and most of them require you to at least get a CN/dread XL Shield booster for the CPU reqs to fit.
I havent found any faction modules in my EFT, thats why. If anyone knows a "cure" for this please tell me
Golem torp pros:
- Defender safe
- Painter and optional sigexplosive rig = GolemTorp>>>CNRtorp (even if the dps is about 950 vs 1100 approx incl drones)
- Needs less slots for tank (if you dont mind having a non-23/7 SB that is)
- 3 3highs for loot/SB/NOS
CNR rules the cruismissiles thou as rigs and painters dont help them as they do to torps. However with 2x painter + 1x rig a golems torp will outperform a CNR cruisemissile and still retain a similar tank. (using factions will result in overkill tank ;) even with 2 painters)
Drawbacks:
- Requires alot of skills at lvl 5, especially range skills that is not needed for cruise ships.
- im sure theres more i cant remember atm
I may ofcourse be wrong in my _theories_ as i havent tried all these ships yet, however have flown enough Ravens to know more then the basics, so feel free to flame me downs in any errors.
TorpGolem: Note: replace XL SB II with CN XL SB for CPU (or greater XL SB)
optional: take out the fourth hardener for a second painter
optional2: take out sigexlopsion rig for a flight time rig (will get you to 43km with T1 instead of 36km, and 60+ with javalins)
optional3: take out Power Diag for another BCU
warning: Sacrificing to many tanking modds for DMG modds might make the tank to risky for its value... however should atleast retain a tank above T2raven tank. Otherwise use a gist XL SB or more tank modds
[Golem]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Target Painter II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Hammerhead II x5
DPS: 984 incl drones and all skills lvl 5
TorpCNR:
This ship needs to use rigs to get a decent shield, unless you go for a faction gist. If used with faction gist its possibilities vs the torp golem will increase, however if golem uses it to, he can get more painters... so dunno..
Needs a CO-P and atlease a CN XL SB to fit! - more faction might ease on the CO-P II
warning: Tank migth be to risky for the payment, however should be sufficient otherwise get a gist XL SB.
[Raven Navy Issue]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II
Power Diagnostic System II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
[empty high slot]
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Core Defence Capacitor Sa***uard I
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hammerhead II x5
DPS: 1122 incl drones and all skills lvl 5
"I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
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Fager
Xel'Naga Corp
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 03:39:00 -
[35]
And for comparison:
CNR cruise:
optional: Shift T2 launchers for CN launchers.. they are very similar and EFT only has T2 so bare with me.
optional2: Take out a BCU for a tanking modd (another PDU probably)
warning: the tank with just a CN xl shieldbooster is abit risky and certainly not disconnect proof like most my setups. Should still outperform a T2Raven tank (wich i so far have cleared most lvl4 with yet, hence i put my money on more damage wich in turn ease my tanking)
[Raven Navy Issue, New Setup 2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5
DPS: 715 incl drones and all skills at lvl5
All my 3 setups has similar tanks, Golem even sacrifing more mods then i have still would outtank the others, making it also safer. Hoever sacrificng hardeners fr painters makes the golem as vurnabel to EM as the others wich shouold not be ignored.
Anyways, hope somone enjoys my setups and ideas, in my mind the king of lvl 4s in the caldari ships is the Golem with superior damage and tank. The CNR cruise is however close second and in situations i would prefer it (missions with many cruiser/friggs and few BC and extreemly few BS)
Torps weakpoint even with maxxed out explosionsig still has probs with cruiser size compared to cruisemissies...
"I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
|
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 08:08:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Fager
Bare with me, these setups are all T2, and most of them require you to at least get a CN/dread XL Shield booster for the CPU reqs to fit.
I havent found any faction modules in my EFT, thats why. If anyone knows a "cure" for this please tell me
There is those little tabs under the part where you pick modules, default is 'market' where you see T2 and T1 items, then there is 'faction' with faction modules, also 'deadspace' and 'officer' tabs are there.
Now as far as general discussion about CNR vs Golem goes I have used both (altho have currently opted in favor of CNR). CNR is the best for 'gank style' missionrunning (ie 'you dont NEED to tank dead rats') while Golem is king of 'permatanking style' (ie 'I can tank em all till cows come home').
Permatanking is preferred by majority of missionrunners, thus for majority of them Golem might be better option. There is smaller part of missionrunners who need that extra edge to shave off those extra 5 minutes from mission completion time and who often do not loot or loot only select few missions, that smaller part usually prefers CNR's in non sustainable tanking modes depending on their ability to cut down incoming dps fast enough to be able to survive.
So in a nutshell, they are different ships. Both are better than the other when fitted specifically for the task they are best suited for. I have yet to see Golem that can do missions faster than my CNR while I do not even dream of being able to tank as hard as Golem in my CNR. I am in the process of building myself pair of Golem's tho as my CNR pair is rather sensitive to lag (and I have started getting that on peak times where I live) to be used when I run missions in peak activity times. Test I did was solo mission completion times for gank CNR vs gank Golem, when I have pair of them I will most likely evaluate my numbers again.
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Heelay Ashrum
Caldari
Santhe Sienar Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 08:59:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
Golem is better than CNR under any circumstances, for PvP and for Pve.
wrong, wrong wrong ..... check better this ship.
Personally i use a Kronos and not the golem but talked a lot with a corp mate that was using a CNR and was claiming that the marauders are crappy. After some talking was clear the fact that in some circumstances he was totally right. and i will explain why:
he do missions in caldari space so fight mostly against guristas...
and guristas scramle ...
a lot
Now if u check the sensor strength of caldari bs's u will se that
GOLEM have 14
raven have 22
CNR 25 ( if im not wrong).
His conclusion ( ad i must agree with him) was that if u are often jammed in a CRN, with a golem u will be permajammed all the time. making this ship a total waste.
Different situation if u do missions in other regions. I do missions in gallente space so the jamming problem con happens almost never so im happy with my marauder ( much more effective than any gallente bs). Imho the golem could be nice, but not gaings jamming pirates.
Im wondering if CCP thinked about that... the golem is totally worthles for L4 in caldari space, thats ridicolous. Give them at least the sensor strenght of a standard bs !!
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Ogul
Caldari
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 09:47:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Heelay Ashrum
Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
Golem is better than CNR under any circumstances, for PvP and for Pve.
wrong, wrong wrong ..... check better this ship.
Personally i use a Kronos and not the golem but talked a lot with a corp mate that was using a CNR and was claiming that the marauders are crappy. After some talking was clear the fact that in some circumstances he was totally right. and i will explain why:
he do missions in caldari space so fight mostly against guristas...
and guristas scramle ...
a lot
Now if u check the sensor strength of caldari bs's u will se that
GOLEM have 14
raven have 22
CNR 25 ( if im not wrong).
His conclusion ( ad i must agree with him) was that if u are often jammed in a CRN, with a golem u will be permajammed all the time. making this ship a total waste.
Different situation if u do missions in other regions. I do missions in gallente space so the jamming problem con happens almost never so im happy with my marauder ( much more effective than any gallente bs). Imho the golem could be nice, but not gaings jamming pirates.
Im wondering if CCP thinked about that... the golem is totally worthles for L4 in caldari space, thats ridicolous. Give them at least the sensor strenght of a standard bs !!
And NPC jamming is purely chance based too, and completely independent of sensor strength.
---
This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Xequecal
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 09:51:00 -
[39]
Actually, Marauders suck for mission looting right now. For both looting while mission running AND looting the mission afterwards. The damned double speed tractor beam doesn't actually pull wrecks within 1500m if your ship has any level of forward movement at all, meaning you can't loot the wrecks. A standard T1 battleship is still a better salvage platform than a salvage-fitted Marauder.
|
Heelay Ashrum
Caldari
Santhe Sienar Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 09:57:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ogul
Originally by: Heelay Ashrum
Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
Golem is better than CNR under any circumstances, for PvP and for Pve.
wrong, wrong wrong ..... check better this ship.
Personally i use a Kronos and not the golem but talked a lot with a corp mate that was using a CNR and was claiming that the marauders are crappy. After some talking was clear the fact that in some circumstances he was totally right. and i will explain why:
he do missions in caldari space so fight mostly against guristas...
and guristas scramle ...
a lot
Now if u check the sensor strength of caldari bs's u will se that
GOLEM have 14
raven have 22
CNR 25 ( if im not wrong).
His conclusion ( ad i must agree with him) was that if u are often jammed in a CRN, with a golem u will be permajammed all the time. making this ship a total waste.
Different situation if u do missions in other regions. I do missions in gallente space so the jamming problem con happens almost never so im happy with my marauder ( much more effective than any gallente bs). Imho the golem could be nice, but not gaings jamming pirates.
Im wondering if CCP thinked about that... the golem is totally worthles for L4 in caldari space, thats ridicolous. Give them at least the sensor strenght of a standard bs !!
And NPC jamming is purely chance based too, and completely independent of sensor strength.
As far i know all jamming is chance based, but the sensor strenght affect them.
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Ping Li
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 10:02:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Ping Li on 08/02/2008 10:04:34
Originally by: Fager
And for comparison:
Anyways, hope somone enjoys my setups and ideas, in my mind the king of lvl 4s in the caldari ships is the Golem with superior damage and tank. The CNR cruise is however close second and in situations i would prefer it (missions with many cruiser/friggs and few BC and extreemly few BS)
You are comparing a torp golem with a TP with a torp CNR without TP so it's pretty obvious the Golem will win. I'm using a CNR which also has a TP fitted and for BS heavy missions it's much faster then a Golem (because of the 10-15% extra DPS). If you have a frig heavy mission the cruise CNR usually wins (also a TP fitted). So for quick missioning a CNR wins. Otoh if you look at isk/hour i'm not sure which one is the best. A golem can easily salvage/loot all BS-wrecks, where a CNR will only get a few. Returning in a salvage ship is usually not worth it isk-wise so that salvage + loot is extra profit. I'm not sure though if that compensates for the lower DPS (though with the ever decreasing LP-value it will be sooner or later)
You can select faction items in EFT by selecting 'Faction;'in the box below your item list.
Jamming is also chance based and therefore a Golem is jammed as much as a CNR.
Oh BTW i forgot to mention i also have a 2-TP torp CNR setup which can do any missions but that one is faction fitted.
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Kel Solaar
Soulbound.
Tenth Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 10:15:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Kel Solaar on 08/02/2008 10:16:29
Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
How many EW warriors you have encountered in your PvP career? Anyway you can use the additional mid slot, if you truly fear so much EW, for a sensor strength booster.
Regarding damage, I doubt CNR do more "PURE" damage than a golem in PvE, and I let you discover why that alone.
Seriously with such a statement I guess you had never PVP :) And yeah because of his low sensor stenght a Golem would be primary for any Ewar ships.
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
Reavers.
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 10:21:00 -
[43]
Without commenting on overall performance, it's worth considering that CNR's 7 launchers have tactical flexibility compared to 4 launchers: you can assign odd launcher amounts. Same type of NPC's often take the same amount of missiles to kill which you can learn to memorise to manage your launchers effectively so as to not waste missiles that are in flight when the NPC pops. The difference of 1 launcher in manageability admittedly does not have a huge impact, but it's certainly a benefit worth noting, and could arguably accumulate fast where odd numbers are frequently optimal.
---
CEO
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 10:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Heelay Ashrum
As far i know all jamming is chance based, but the sensor strenght affect them.
Wrong. A carrier will be jammed by npcs just as much as a marauder. Yes, it's not logical. Yes, npc cheat.
------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Heelay Ashrum
Caldari
Santhe Sienar Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 11:06:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Heelay Ashrum
As far i know all jamming is chance based, but the sensor strenght affect them.
Wrong. A carrier will be jammed by npcs just as much as a marauder. Yes, it's not logical. Yes, npc cheat.
that's odd. 
btw, tnx for the info .. i'll pass the info to my corp mate.
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KhaniKirai
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 11:24:00 -
[46]
I think the golem is only better in PVP.
It has also a bonus on explosion VELOCITY and that is a thing, that you barely ever need in missions or ratting. Missions/ratting its often pretty slow ships.
However against nano ships or faster pvp ships, this explosion velocity bonus might help.
So whats better for pvp on the long run: ravens with less tanking and less explosion bonus and target paint bonus, or a golem?
Personally i think the golem requires too many materials, is too easy to be jammed and that makes its not really wanted.
Fix the cost and the jamming vulnerability and people will build them more often.
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 12:33:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Carniflex
Now as far as general discussion about CNR vs Golem goes I have used both (altho have currently opted in favor of CNR). CNR is the best for 'gank style' missionrunning (ie 'you dont NEED to tank dead rats') while Golem is king of 'permatanking style' (ie 'I can tank em all till cows come home').
Being a militant ganktanker myself, I have to disagree with this. I prefer the Golem over the CNR for ganktanking as well. Of course, I am fairly lazy (I prefer to call it 'efficient' though), so I like the convenience the Golem offers. Plus the 4th BCU I can fit on my Golem offsets what, half of the CNRs damage advantage? (I am writing this under the impression that a viable T2 torp CNR setup with 4 BCUs does not exist, please enlighten me if I am wrong) And the rest is made up by better one-volleying, which has my Golem performing just as well as my CNR did of not better. Add the convenience of the tank, the better TP and the free slot for an AB, and you have the perfect ship for both ganktank and permatank. The only thing outdoing the Golem imho are the high damage turret boats against the correct NPCs.
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 13:55:00 -
[48]
You are correct that 4 BCU T2 siege CNR is not possible, if one wants to have any kind of semireasonable tank also. However in my opinion it more or less averages out vs Golem as CNR has one more rig slot (for third range rig) plus it has better base DPS it starts off from.
4th BCU vs extra rig slot + 16% more base dps PS. That officer RCU needed to pull that off is reasonably cheap even, some 150 mil or so approx last time cheked.
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I'm Spying
Dead-i
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 19:39:00 -
[49]
One of the ideas i like about the golem is the ability to permatank, well almost permatank depending on the fittings... this is a huge plus for me, because the reason is that when im on my laptop, i prefer to not dual account, and when im on my laptop i will be most likely on a wireless connection. We all know how unstable some wireless conenctions are, and i would hate to loose a ship while doing a mission because of a lame connection drop
Originally by: Jin Entres
Without commenting on overall performance, it's worth considering that CNR's 7 launchers have tactical flexibility compared to 4 launchers: you can assign odd launcher amounts. Same type of NPC's often take the same amount of missiles to kill which you can learn to memorise to manage your launchers effectively so as to not waste missiles that are in flight when the NPC pops. The difference of 1 launcher in manageability admittedly does not have a huge impact, but it's certainly a benefit worth noting, and could arguably accumulate fast where odd numbers are frequently optimal.
nice argument.. i tend to do that a lot, assigning 2 or 3 cruise launchers to certain frigates and/or cruisers
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 20:37:00 -
[50]
On the topic of Defenders, Cruise Missiles, and Torpedoes:
Regardless of RoF, number of defenders, chance of defenders hitting, etc., there is one fact that gives Toepedoes a very key edge over Cruise Missiles.
Torpedoes have more HP than Cruise Missiles and can survive a Defender hit whereas a single Defender hit will always take out a Cruise Missile.
Now, this is true regardless of the ship that fired them, but you can see why Torpedoes have another advantage over Cruise Missiles in terms of damage output. Of course, their other stats (range, explosion radius and velocity, etc.) hurt them if you don't take them into account.
--------------------
"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Fager
Xel'Naga Corp
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 20:45:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ping Li
Edited by: Ping Li on 08/02/2008 10:04:34
Originally by: Fager
And for comparison:
Anyways, hope somone enjoys my setups and ideas, in my mind the king of lvl 4s in the caldari ships is the Golem with superior damage and tank. The CNR cruise is however close second and in situations i would prefer it (missions with many cruiser/friggs and few BC and extreemly few BS)
You are comparing a torp golem with a TP with a torp CNR without TP so it's pretty obvious the Golem will win. I'm using a CNR which also has a TP fitted and for BS heavy missions it's much faster then a Golem (because of the 10-15% extra DPS). If you have a frig heavy mission the cruise CNR usually wins (also a TP fitted). So for quick missioning a CNR wins. Otoh if you look at isk/hour i'm not sure which one is the best. A golem can easily salvage/loot all BS-wrecks, where a CNR will only get a few. Returning in a salvage ship is usually not worth it isk-wise so that salvage + loot is extra profit. I'm not sure though if that compensates for the lower DPS (though with the ever decreasing LP-value it will be sooner or later)
You can select faction items in EFT by selecting 'Faction;'in the box below your item list.
Jamming is also chance based and therefore a Golem is jammed as much as a CNR.
Oh BTW i forgot to mention i also have a 2-TP torp CNR setup which can do any missions but that one is faction fitted.
if you use 3 hardeners + TP on CNR, you can use 2x TP and 3 hard on golem (and TP bonus) and still retain a superior shield and damage. (and ofcourse match up 3 against 2 TPs with faction tank)
Golem can sacrifice tank rigs for Gank riggs (1range + 1explosion sig) while CNR has 3 slots, more are needed on tank unless you got imba gist stuff ;) - then i guess you can match it up better.
i totally agree and said so before, against cruiser heavy missions, Cruisemissies wins.. friggs is smallfactor when you got drones...
Loot in many missions will often double your bounty income, so if your looting and not salvaging a maurouder is nast isk/time++ then.
P.S - Thanks for the tip on faction stuff (these options where greyed out when i looked around couse of not having selected a module that had a faction option ;) )
"I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
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I'm Spying
Dead-i
|
Posted - 2008.04.03 19:37:00 -
[52]
Edited by: I''m Spying on 03/04/2008 19:37:28
here is the setups i've been using lately... like the golem a lot actually...
------------------------------------------
[Golem, Misson Cheap]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Cap Recharger II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I
Salvager I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
--------------------------------
And my other
--------------------------------
[Golem, Mission - Faction 2]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Power Diagnostic System II
Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I
Salvager I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
-------------------------------------------------------
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Galvanized
|
Posted - 2008.04.04 15:15:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Galvanized on 04/04/2008 15:15:17
And if you've read this far and want to buy a " Golem " contact me .I wont say the price i sell for here as it will start a huge market debate etc but im sure you'll be happy .
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Einherji
Mesric
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.04 15:39:00 -
[54]
I think ppl are misunderstanding the Golem, of course the cnr can do more dam with cruise missiles but, thats not the point the golem is made for ratting/missions. I have done my share of missions and I would pick the golem over the cnr anyday, so what if the CNR can do a little more dam but you are still gonna do it faster in a Golem if you loot/salvage, as you dont need to get a dedicated ship for loot/salvage. It's not just about damage it's about function.
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
Black Star Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.04.04 15:48:00 -
[55]
Tbh anyone fitting cruise missiles to a Golem is also misunderstanding it ;)
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Ed Travelz
|
Posted - 2008.04.04 20:30:00 -
[56]
I run Both. I find that the Golem has an edge in saving time in looting and saving ISK in replacing Faction Cruise missiles. As for the tank, Golem also has the edge. But the raven does have a slightly better DPS.
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Hait
|
Posted - 2008.04.04 21:43:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Arana Tellen
(missile launchers) x (missile damage) x (chance of no defender) = damage
8 x 1 x 0.9 = 7.2
4 x 2 x 0.9 = 7.2
Bad maths.
10% chance one of your missiles will be defended....
If this occures then -> damage output for raven = 7*1
__________________ damage output for golem = 3*2 |
Neuvik
|
Posted - 2008.04.05 00:35:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Tbh anyone fitting cruise missiles to a Golem is also misunderstanding it ;)
misunderstanding what exactly?
care to explain for those of us that are confused and misunderstanding it?
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for (i=0; i<n=1337; i++)
{while (start sig != true)
if (sig_within_rules(sig)) {show sig;}}}
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2672/deepspacegg5.gif |
NoNah
Tenth Legion Holdings
Tenth Legion
|
Posted - 2008.04.05 00:56:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Hait
Originally by: Arana Tellen
(missile launchers) x (missile damage) x (chance of no defender) = damage
8 x 1 x 0.9 = 7.2
4 x 2 x 0.9 = 7.2
Bad maths.
10% chance one of your missiles will be defended....
If this occures then -> damage output for raven = 7*1
__________________ damage output for golem = 3*2
I suppose you still don't get what they're trying to say.
Each and every missile launched at an npc using defender missiles has a chance to trigger a defender. This has nothing to do with volleys or anything such. In this aspect you're not worse of sending your missiles one by one, than in a cluster/volley.
The chance of a golem losing a a missile to defenders per volley would be 1-0.9^4(35%), the chance of a CNR losing a missile to defenders per volley would be 1-0.9^7(52%). The chance of losing two would be (1-0.9^3)*0.35 for the golem and (1-0.9^6)*0.52 for the CNR. Add RoF to this and you'll soon see that CNR and Golems are EXACTLY as affected by Defenders - in missions.(0.52/0.75 == 0.35 * 2, and the fact that it won't add up exactly is just a rounding error).
For PvP the Golem would be more vulnerable to defenders - yes. But contrary to the question about how often ECM is used in pvp - asking how often defenders are viably used in pvp is motivated.
Postcount: 707766
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Dearest Wish
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Posted - 2008.04.05 13:50:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Dearest Wish on 05/04/2008 13:56:02
If you don't fit your golem like this, or better (meta wise), you shouldn't be flying it. pack some t2 javs for BS's that orbit past 40km. 1.25k DPS with the wires (you should have if you're flying a golem). This will tank every level 4 mission blind-folded. You'll melt everything. If you need more tank (because youre terrible), get a crystal set.
[Golem, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Dark Blood Cap Recharger
Dark Blood Cap Recharger
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
e; You can put a 100mn Domi/Gist AB instead of one of the CR's. With wirrings it'll last for about 50 minutes like that. This allows you to avoid ever having to use Javs since you top speed will be about 750m/s+
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