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LOL, and I thought the Ferox was bad

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X340	Posted - 2008.02.09 11:47:00 - [1] After playing around with fittings, in-game and then in EFT...I don't understand why people so often bash the Ferox, when the Brutix needs to be bashed twice as much. At least the ferox offers a different weapons platform when compared to the drake, while otherwise being worse in every way. But the brutix offers nothing. The myrimidon can use the same weapons system, and use it better. The extra low slots for damage mods, along with mids for more web/speed, makes it better in every way. Drones are just a bonus. Can we see some sort of boost to the brutix to make it worth something? It is _relatively_ useless. I also wouldn't mind seeing the Ferox and other underpowered ships brought in line to make them worth using.
Antodias North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.02.09 11:49:00 - [2] Sorry, what? ------------------------------------ Politically Correct since 2007. No really.
X340	Posted - 2008.02.09 11:51:00 - [3] Originally by: Antodias Sorry, what? Did you miss the part where I called the brutix useless? Try reading next time.
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.02.09 11:57:00 - [4] Edited by: General Coochie on 09/02/2008 12:00:47 Yes the myrmidons dps operates quite well under sentry fire. The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.09 11:59:00 - [5] You obviously fail at EFT warrioring. You should be easily able to produce a Brutix setup which outdamages and outtanks a Ferox at the same time. As for the Myrmidon being just better: Well yes. Yes it is. All tier 2 BCs are vastly better than their tier 1 counterparts. Also, the Hurricane and the Cyclone share the same weapon systems. And the Prophecy and the Harbinger do, too. Finally, the Ferox also shares the Drake's missile weapon systems. Not that it's very good at using them. But it could. You'll have to excuse me, but I fail to see your point entirely. Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:01:00 - [6] Originally by: X340 Originally by: Antodias Sorry, what? Did you miss the part where I called the brutix useless? Try reading next time. No, I think he saw it. A brutix can put down 900dps, and has the hitpoints of a battlecruiser. It uses turrets for it's primary DPS. Myrmidon uses drones. Ergo, different weapon systems. Brutix remains the only of the tier 1 BCs that are worth using, on merits alone. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Jin Entres Malevolent Intervention Reavers.	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:12:00 - [7] Edited by: Jin Entres on 09/02/2008 12:13:53 Hmm. I have to agree, actually. Not that this makes Ferox any better and not a nigh worthless pile of crap, but Myrmidon does outperform Brutix in every way. Looking at all BC bonuses: Prophecy: cap and tank Harbinger: cap and damage Cyclone: damage and tank Hurricane: damage and damage Ferox: optimal and tank Drake: damage and tank Brutix: damage and tank Myrmidon: damage and tank cap and optimal bonuses being (at least intended) equivalent to damage, there is a clear mismatch between the roles of amarr and minmatar BC's with caldari and gallente ones. Where the previous two are the tankier one and the gankier one, the latter are both the same but with different weapon systems. Due to the lower amount of slots on Tier 1 BC's aswell as lower base hp, they simply end up being outperformed in all ways by Tier 2. It would seem that Brutix needs the repper bonus changed to a damage equivalent one (10% falloff seems most reasonable, direct damage would make it too good). And similarly Ferox would either have to go the tank or the damage way. Personally I would keep the hybrid orientation and change its resistance bonus to a hybrid damage bonus instead. Then it would justify its existence as a railboat (or blasters with Null for that minority [you know who you are]). This also makes more sense because we all know the Drake is good at tanking but does not do that great damage. --- CEO
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:28:00 - [8] There are many ships that are worse than the Myrmidon. The fact that the Brutix is also worse than Myrmidon, does not mean it's a usable tier 1 BC, where all the other tier 1 BCs are not. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Tatsue Niko Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:34:00 - [9] While I do agree with Jim, I also see the point of james. Basicly the myrmidon is better than most BCs, which is what james states. Jim confronts us with the fact that the myrm and the brutix have the exact same roles. These are two different matters, the latter involving the brutix, the first involves the myrm being overpowered I suppose?
Jin Entres Malevolent Intervention Reavers.	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:42:00 - [10] Originally by: James Lyrus A brutix can put down 900dps, and has the hitpoints of a battlecruiser. It uses turrets for it's primary DPS. Myrmidon uses drones. Ergo, different weapon systems. Brutix remains the only of the tier 1 BCs that are worth using, on merits alone. I am comparing the figures here. With a full rack of ions on both aswell as 5 Hammerheads on the Brutix and 2 Ogres, 2 Hammerheads and 1 Hobgoblin on the Myrmidon I get: No damage mods: Brutix 517 vs Myrmidon 556 1 damage mod: Brutix 601 vs Myrmidon 614 2 damage mods: Brutix 690 vs Myrmidon 675 3 damage mods: Brutix 757 vs Myrmidon 721 Myrmidon has 1 extra low aswell as an extra mid. It can fit an extra damage mod while achieving the same tank, which means that it will outdamage Brutix on any setup with less than 3 or more damage mods, and with three it falls behind only 36 DPS (10 if it fits a 4th damage mod). The extra mid can also be utilised for damage by wielding a second web for instance, or a tracking computer which improves average hit quality and therefore effective damage dealt. A tanking comparison is hardly neccessary, but suffice to say that Myrmidon is less reliant on damage mods to deal its respectable damage, has an extra low, more base armor hitpoints aswell as one less gun fitted which translates to more powergrid available (the cpu saved is negated by Brutix's higher cpu, however). The only reason Brutix is useful is because of the magnitude of damage it deals. But it is still beat by Myrmidon in every aspect, including damage. As for using "different weapon system" as an argument, it doesn't really fly: different is not automatically better. There are advantages aswell as disadvantages to drones as opposed to turrets. To name a few (or most, actually), drones have much better range, use no cap, do not rely on damage mods, deal singular damage type, are not shut down by ECM but they can be destroyed (which, although, is to some extent alleviated by Myrmidon's spare drone room in bay). If anything, drones can be argued to be better than turrets. --- CEO
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:46:00 - [11] The op fails so badly and in so many ways, it's barely believable.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Jin Entres But it is still beat by Myrmidon in every aspect, including damage. As is every other tier 1 battlecruiser compared to it's race's tier 2. Just like they are supposed to be.
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:50:00 - [13] There are advantages and disadvantages to rely on drones as your main dps. + even when jammed or ECMd you still deal damage. - your drones can pop fast to smart bombs or sentry guns. I'm glad I can choose between the brutix and myrm. The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)
Jin Entres Malevolent Intervention Reavers.	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:53:00 - [14] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Jin Entres But it is still beat by Myrmidon in every aspect, including damage. As is every other tier 1 battlecruiser compared to it's race's tier 2. Just like they are supposed to be. Actually Prophecy and Cyclone get tanking bonuses which Harbinger and Hurricane do not. They make better tanking oriented gang mod boats. This is a difference in role and utility, not only flat out inferiority in performance with similar fittings. --- CEO
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.02.09 13:01:00 - [15] Originally by: Jin Entres Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Jin Entres But it is still beat by Myrmidon in every aspect, including damage. As is every other tier 1 battlecruiser compared to it's race's tier 2. Just like they are supposed to be. Actually Prophecy and Cyclone get tanking bonuses which Harbinger and Hurricane do not. They make better tanking oriented gang mod boats. This is a difference in role and utility, not only flat out inferiority in performance with similar fittings. Myrmidon gets drone bonuses, while the Brutix gets hybrid turret damage bonuses. Also, the Brutix has an extra turret. Kill the drones (very easy to do for many ships) and the Myrmidon is way inferior to a Brutix without its drones.
Jin Entres Malevolent Intervention Reavers.	Posted - 2008.02.09 13:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Jin Entres Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Jin Entres But it is still beat by Myrmidon in every aspect, including damage. As is every other tier 1 battlecruiser compared to it's race's tier 2. Just like they are supposed to be. Actually Prophecy and Cyclone get tanking bonuses which Harbinger and Hurricane do not. They make better tanking oriented gang mod boats. This is a difference in role and utility, not only flat out inferiority in performance with similar fittings. Myrmidon gets drone bonuses, while the Brutix gets hybrid turret damage bonuses. Also, the Brutix has an extra turret. Kill the drones (very easy to do for many ships) and the Myrmidon is way inferior to a Brutix without its drones. You'll kill a Brutix faster than you'll kill the drones. But seriously, equally I could say jam the Brutix and it can do nothing. Or stay out of its web range and it can do nothing. Besides, first of all Myrmidon has spare drones. Second of all it gets a hitpoint bonus for drones. Third of all, drones can be scooped and redeployed which makes killing them more difficult. And fourthly, even if you manage to kill the drones, Myrmidon will still do damage from its 6 guns which is 68.7% of Brutix's damage (6 vs 8.75 effective guns after bonus applied, 82% if you utilise the extra low slot by an extra damage mod). --- CEO
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.09 13:43:00 - [17] It isn't April 1st yet. --------------- you all smell!
Sidephex Ballistic Void	Posted - 2008.02.09 14:05:00 - [18] brutix is fun. i also like the cyclone quite a lot and it served me well. its not always about 110% performance, but also about what is fun. a gank brutix can be so much more fun than micromanaging drones. dont see the ops problem. therefore this thread gets a 'lol'... ___________
X340	Posted - 2008.02.09 15:34:00 - [19] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Jin Entres But it is still beat by Myrmidon in every aspect, including damage. As is every other tier 1 battlecruiser compared to it's race's tier 2. Just like they are supposed to be. What's with you people and your lack of reading comprehension? Don't you understand that the problem is with being outdone in every way, rather than just being "overall worse"? Ferox is weaker than Drake...BUT, AT LEAST it can be useful in a different way: rails. The problem with brutix is that it's outperformed by myrmidon in every way possible. The only exception is a very, very small DPS win by brutix, in the case of both of them fitting 3 damage mods. Myrm uses rails almost as well (usually better because of more slots).
Magazaki	Posted - 2008.02.09 15:53:00 - [20] Edited by: Magazaki on 09/02/2008 15:55:17 I hope this is a joke thread about the poor, overpowered monsters of the game. And to think that the game is coming to such a good balance these days that out of the top of my head the Brutix is pretty much the only ship that needs a slight nerfbat. As for the same but different use, I suggest you reconsider. See, there is the matter of weaponry - guns and drones are used quite differently, making the two ships markedly different in use anyway. Ship bonuses are secondary, ship performance is what really matters, and a brutix works quite differently than the myrmidon even if the bonuses seem similar... -----sig----- Originally by: Kaemonn:Signature Originally by: kieron: off duty You dont have to swallow! Win...
Katrina Coreli No Fear Buccaneers	Posted - 2008.02.09 16:07:00 - [21] The Brutix is my favorite ship ingame, dont knock it The Duel Mar and Electron Blaster setup pwns Try getting off EFT and actually playing the game, you might learn something
X340	Posted - 2008.02.09 16:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Magazaki Edited by: Magazaki on 09/02/2008 15:55:17 I hope this is a joke thread about the poor, overpowered monsters of the game. And to think that the game is coming to such a good balance these days that out of the top of my head the Brutix is pretty much the only ship that needs a slight nerfbat. As for the same but different use, I suggest you reconsider. See, there is the matter of weaponry - guns and drones are used quite differently, making the two ships markedly different in use anyway. Ship bonuses are secondary, ship performance is what really matters, and a brutix works quite differently than the myrmidon even if the bonuses seem similar... Dude, are you even reading the thread? I can use the same weapons on the myrmidon and have almost the same DPS with turrets alone...IN ADDITION to a better tank or ewar or whatever else I feel like using the extra slots for. Brutix is just a gimp myrmidon with weaker drones.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.09 16:29:00 - [23] The next patch apparently will be a buff for the Ferox (+1 rail turret) and + some PG... I rather like the Ferox. ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
Arazel Chainfire	Posted - 2008.02.09 16:44:00 - [24] To the OP, Please shut up. If you don't know the difference between the two ships, I suggest that you try using them sometime. Try setting them up for tank, gank, and a mix of the two. You'll find that the myrm is better for tank and mix, but if you set up the brutix in any reasonable manner, and you have equal skills in both drones and gunnery, you'll easily outgank the myrm in a brutix (with battlecruiser lvl 5). Then, if you look at the drake and the ferox, you'll find that the drake can outdamage, outtank, and outrange the ferox in every case. Yes, the ferox uses a different weapons system. However, if you look a the moa and caracel as well, you'll see that in almost every case the missile ship is used over the railboat. The only exception is the rohk for fleet combat. So if you would please go stuff your arguments, until you can put some real logic behind them, please just stay away from the forums. -Arazel
X340	Posted - 2008.02.09 17:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Arazel Chainfire To the OP, Please shut up. If you don't know the difference between the two ships, I suggest that you try using them sometime. Try setting them up for tank, gank, and a mix of the two. You'll find that the myrm is better for tank and mix, but if you set up the brutix in any reasonable manner, and you have equal skills in both drones and gunnery, you'll easily outgank the myrm in a brutix (with battlecruiser lvl 5). Then, if you look at the drake and the ferox, you'll find that the drake can outdamage, outtank, and outrange the ferox in every case. Yes, the ferox uses a different weapons system. However, if you look a the moa and caracel as well, you'll see that in almost every case the missile ship is used over the railboat. The only exception is the rohk for fleet combat. So if you would please go stuff your arguments, until you can put some real logic behind them, please just stay away from the forums. -Arazel "shut up"? You obnoxious little ape. I guess decency is unknown to you. I know the difference between the two ships. Myrmidon has more slots and better stats, while the brutix only has a small damage bonus to turrets and a single additional turret slot. You don't need to be a genious to realize that the myrm can fulfil any realistic rail or blaster role better than the brutix. Sure, you can have a paper tank and no speed or no web and do SLIGHTLY more damage with purely rails than a myrmidon can. That doesn't count. Even if it did, that's only one small exception out of many failures. Also, I stated I would like to see all ships to be equally useful within their ship class. So there's no need for you to waste space with your trash post content about the moa and caracal.
benzss The Highwayman Union	Posted - 2008.02.09 17:25:00 - [26] Edited by: benzss on 09/02/2008 17:25:27 Brutix is an excellent gank ship. Thorax on steroids. Myrmidon can't really perform that rule as well (i.e. it won't be using ECM drones). Myrmidon is overall a better ship, sure, but Brutix is hardly useless!
Livinglegend Gallente The Dark Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.02.09 17:33:00 - [27] i've flown both the brutix and the myrmidon many times and to say one is better then the other is comparing which people are flying it if it came down to ships alone then yeah the myrm would win but a inexperienced myrm flyer and a experienced brutix who would win? If lifes a joke i don't get it....
echohead	Posted - 2008.02.09 17:51:00 - [28] Wow, I really don't see where the backlash again the OP came from here. People need to learn to read a post twice if it does not seem to make sense the first time. Do you not think the brutix's damage bonus is enough to set it apart from the myrmidon as at least a different ship?
Quinten Blood	Posted - 2008.02.09 18:09:00 - [29] The Brutix is no where near useless it is the highest dps BC out there, by some distance tbh.
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.09 18:39:00 - [30] Edited by: Rastigan on 09/02/2008 18:39:12 7 Neutron Blaster 2's w/void Named 10mn MWD Web Scram II small cap booster II 3 Mag stab II's 1 DCU II 1 PDS II 5 Hammerhead II's 870 DPS, almost 1000 DPS when you overload the weapons.. all for around 40 million ISK w/modules.. Yeah, its a really crappy ship

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