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What's the cost of the Coalition vs BoB war?

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Boid Gallente Weirdwood	Posted - 2008.02.11 01:24:00 - [1] It's genuine curiosity more than anything else that has prompted me to post these questions, in full knowledge that posts that are neither from the usual clique nor from members of well known corporations are generally treated with derision and howls of, "Alt spotted!". Well, I'm not an alt, I'm truly neutral in the current war other than profiting from being an empire carebear; The demand for minerals is a wonderful thing. I occasionally browse the killboards of the involved alliances and I find the losses in terms of isk absolutely staggering even on a daily basis, I can barely comprehend the accumulated cost over the course of an entire campaign. Just how damaging are these multi-billion losses on a daily basis to a large corporation? Is it a constant battle to replenish these losses or are they easily absorbed? I can just about understand how the Coalition can manage, with easy access to all of the resources in EVE but even then such losses much surely hurt? How BoB manages to keep going is beyond me, I can only imagine that there are enormous stockpiles of ships and equipment. It's likely that I'm being incredibly naive in assuming these things are even a problem for either the Coalition or BoB and showing my complete lack of large corporation operations. I'm guessing that individual members of a corporation aren't expected to replace their own losses whilst fighting a war? As I said, it's genuine curiosity that raises these questions, I'm fascinated by the logistics that must go into feeding a campaign of this magnitude. I do enjoy reading the (factual, smack-free) battle reports and follow the war with interest. Keep up the good work! P.S. If I had to pick a side then right now it would have to be BoB if for no other reason than I'm British, we always pick the underdog. Yes, realise this wasn't always the case, I'd have been supporting the other side then! What can I say, I'm fickle.
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.11 01:26:00 - [2] Edited by: Raem Civrie on 11/02/2008 01:27:14 Have you seen the Delve moons? Lotsa dyspro. ---
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 01:29:00 - [3] The cost? ****ty threads like this one.
Sekhmet Orion Mandatory Suicide Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.11 01:33:00 - [4] About 15 euro per month.
Sinsalura id TECH	Posted - 2008.02.11 01:36:00 - [5] No doubt trillions of isk have been spent in this war. ~ id TECH ~ now recruiting
Sky Marshal Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.02.11 01:39:00 - [6] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 11/02/2008 01:39:43 Well... So... If we take in account all T2 modules destroyed, ships not insured and insufficiently insured, all server node crashs, all POS destroyed, the mental age of Sirmolle, the deficiencies of CCP, and some conceptual factors. We can state that it is... Really a lot of ISK. _______ 16/20 Dragon : ½ Great Game + 14/20 Revelations : ½ Desyncs... + 11/20 Trinity : ½ BBSOD, Bugs, Desyncs, F*** Nerfs + 10/20 v1.1 : ½ [...] + EXP shield nerf + CCP, you are tiring.
Boid Gallente Weirdwood	Posted - 2008.02.11 01:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Sky Marshal Really a lot of ISK. Actually I phrased the subject badly. I'm more interested on how the ongoing costs are met rather than the total cost of the war which can presumably only be summed up as a metric f'ing ****load.
Triest Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.02.11 01:49:00 - [8] Most of the cost is born by individual pilots, not the alliances themselves. To my knowledge none of the major players have any form of a PVP ship reimbursement scheme going, which makes the actual cost of the wars (to the corporations/alliances) pretty much limited to POSs, fuel for POSs and capitals, and (in some cases) replacing capital losses as well. There are also income concerns, such as fees gained from station use, as well as moon mining income. Delve, in particular, has a number of rare moon minerals, which in total probably yield 10+ billion isk a month easily.
Mr Funkadelic Tenacious Danes Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.02.11 02:02:00 - [9] I would think something like a fantasilion spaceship money or so, give or take alittle. No one can tell :) but moon mining does give alot of isk - one region can bring in with dys/prom moons like 20-25b amonth, atleast with the current price on promethium
Dal Thrax Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2008.02.11 02:05:00 - [10] Well most of the BoB corporations are communist. Everything 1000 pilots produce is quite a lot of isk. Goons have some from of ship program, though it may simply be selling cruisers in bulk. D2 I believe required all their pilots to have two fleet fitted BS's. Unfortunately in the early Titan era that didn't last to long. For isk it depends. Moon mining seems to be the favorite form of passive wealth generation. Some of the older alliances have a large stock of T2 BPOs, which are still profitable if not as profitable as they once were. A fair number of alliances have renters. The bigger alliances can generate isk just on pure mass. Dal Originally by: HEXXX In all seriousness; I think I made a miscalculation originally. . . We either need to fix this or fix our advertising.
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 02:25:00 - [11] 51.7% of eve's overall gdp
Svett Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.11 02:29:00 - [12] The cost is loads and loads of useless alt threads in COAD.
WraithFire Cassandra's Light	Posted - 2008.02.11 02:29:00 - [13] It is true that this magnitude of war can really hurt on varying degrees. The logistics of bringing in battleships and ammo, through very dangerous routes all the way through the fronts can be a pain. Also, the losses during major fleet battles truly gives a beating in terms of isk. Although the losses can be staggering, it all boils down to the "will" of the major powers in the Great War to stay the course. It maybe true that wiping BoB off the map can yield a more positive outcome in terms of long term planning. So, going through with this campaign regardless of the multi-billion isk losses can still be cheaper than letting BoB live in 0.0. Note that every war is costly. Member corps of alliances involve in this war somehow, even once if not in the near future, felt a squeeze in terms of manpower, isk and ships, but somehow these entities pulled through. One example was when MM was sieging Y-2ANO, and the BoB cynojammer was knocked off; however, BoB came in with more numbers than MM because some of their players were either offline and or maybe some were recuperating from the losses in the initial siege of that system. In that scenario, BoB was able to put another cynojammer in the system and MM players especially the high command was not very happy about that. But a week or two, MM and friends came back and finished off Y-2ANO. A couple of days after Y-2ANO fell, BoB definitely said that they did not want that system anyways, as if it was a run down motel where the bed sheets crawl off the mattress. Come on! Tell me something new for heaven's sake. It is beyond the reason that we [both sides of the conflict] are fighting this war for fighting's sake. The enormous amount of losses in isk and time poured by pilots cannot be explained by such trivial reasons. It has to be something more than that. And this is my two isk for this.
Blinders GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.02.11 02:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Triest Most of the cost is born by individual pilots, not the alliances themselves. comin' for to carry me hoooooooooome
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.11 02:39:00 - [15] By characters named ahiwtfehjow and their low low prices
Muro Deez GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 03:22:00 - [16] Originally by: Boid I occasionally browse the killboards of the involved alliances and I find the losses in terms of isk absolutely staggering even on a daily basis, I can barely comprehend the accumulated cost over the course of an entire campaign. Just how damaging are these multi-billion losses on a daily basis to a large corporation? Is it a constant battle to replenish these losses or are they easily absorbed? As said above, most corps don't have reimbursement plans in place, a lot of the cost is borne by the pilots. Speaking for myself, it's not difficult to replace lost ships. Quote: I can just about understand how the Coalition can manage, with easy access to all of the resources in EVE but even then such losses much surely hurt? How BoB manages to keep going is beyond me, I can only imagine that there are enormous stockpiles of ships and equipment. It's likely that I'm being incredibly naive in assuming these things are even a problem for either the Coalition or BoB and showing my complete lack of large corporation operations. I'm guessing that individual members of a corporation aren't expected to replace their own losses whilst fighting a war? Yes, individual pilots replace their own stuff unless there are plans in place for it ie. capital reimbursement or the like. BoB's income has been cut dramatically over the last few months, so I'd say while they may still be breaking even, they're probably dipping into their savings from the last year or two. Quote: As I said, it's genuine curiosity that raises these questions, I'm fascinated by the logistics that must go into feeding a campaign of this magnitude. Here's a good figure for you: isk involved in pos logistics for campaigns like delve are often only 10-20% of an alliance's overall monthly fuel cost. Towers and modules aren't actually that expensive.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.02.11 03:29:00 - [17] How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie RollÖ pop? Farham: "Remember, sometimes evolution ends in extinction."
Tido Maliyu Condottieri Industries The Economy	Posted - 2008.02.11 03:34:00 - [18] over nine thousand?
Minyon Cross Roads	Posted - 2008.02.11 04:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Boid Originally by: Sky Marshal Really a lot of ISK. Actually I phrased the subject badly. I'm more interested on how the ongoing costs are met rather than the total cost of the war which can presumably only be summed up as a metric f'ing ***load. If you consider the extream size of the coalition forces (about 20,000 ? members) the cost to the players isnt that high on average. If the coalition has 20k members on its side, it could be more even if only 1/2 of them are active, not alts or industrialist then you still have an army of about 10k strong. From looking at the BoB killboard it looks like they could be geting about 200 - 300 kills a day or more, on sunday they killed 114 battleships alone . But with so many fighting 300 kills a day just doesnt do any damage to them at all as that works out at about 1 ship lost per player per month 300 kills/10,000 players 30 days = 0.9 ships lost per player If that ship lost was a tech2 and rig fitted battle ship or a t2 ship then it would prbaly cost them about 200m over 30 days thats about 6.7m per day, so to keep up the money needed to buy new ships you would need to kill some rats or run a mission for a couple hours a week. Bob could do this with alts.
Boid Gallente Weirdwood	Posted - 2008.02.11 04:24:00 - [20] A couple of people have now stated that individual pilots are responsible for replacing their own loss; Doesn't this effectively mean that those pilots who put in the most work also get punished the most? A quick check through the BoB killboards will often show the same pilot losing a battle ship several times during a single fleet battle.
Zinrix GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 04:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin By characters named ahiwtfehjow and their low low prices I laughed, awesome post.
Zinrix GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 04:52:00 - [22] Originally by: Boid A couple of people have now stated that individual pilots are responsible for replacing their own loss; Doesn't this effectively mean that those pilots who put in the most work also get punished the most? A quick check through the BoB killboards will often show the same pilot losing a battle ship several times during a single fleet battle. It would if this were a job and not a game. Part of the enjoyment is the possibility of dying. The risk makes it worth playing. The people who lose the most are generally the people who play the most. Whenever you go into a fleet fight, you have the likelihood of dying, but if you don't PVP and you stay in empire, you don't have any fun.
Tido Maliyu Condottieri Industries The Economy	Posted - 2008.02.11 04:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Zinrix but if you don't PVP and you stay in empire, you don't have any fun. Unfounded claim. I find mining QUITE entertaining!
Boid Gallente Weirdwood	Posted - 2008.02.11 05:07:00 - [24] Originally by: Zinrix Originally by: Boid A couple of people have now stated that individual pilots are responsible for replacing their own loss; Doesn't this effectively mean that those pilots who put in the most work also get punished the most? A quick check through the BoB killboards will often show the same pilot losing a battle ship several times during a single fleet battle. It would if this were a job and not a game. Part of the enjoyment is the possibility of dying. The risk makes it worth playing. The people who lose the most are generally the people who play the most. Whenever you go into a fleet fight, you have the likelihood of dying, but if you don't PVP and you stay in empire, you don't have any fun. Apologies if I gave the wrong impression, I didn't mean punishment in terms of ruining the game or fun of anyone, I only meant punishment in the context of my post, i.e. fiscally punished. I find it interesting that you say, "it would if it were a job and not a game". Bizarrely enough this is exactly why I haven't got involved with a big corporation in EVE. I spent around 7 years in a hardcore raiding guild in Everquest. I would work for 10 hours a day, get home and then go raid with my guild. It took a long, long time for me to realise it, but it had effectively become a second job for me. Looking back, the memory of it makes me cringe, I will never ever know how my wife put up with it - I'm just thankful she did! The end result of this is that I wont ever put myself in the situation where my schedule in a game isn't strictly on my own terms; It doesn't stop me reading about the what's going on around EVE and wishing I was more involved sometimes though! Anyway, what I was trying to say before I got a little side-tracked is that I wasn't trying to criticise anyone's style of management or play. Everyone should play the game how they want to play it to derive whatever fun they can from it.
Gentle Glide GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 05:10:00 - [25] Originally by: Tido Maliyu Originally by: Zinrix but if you don't PVP and you stay in empire, you don't have any fun. Unfounded claim. I find mining QUITE entertaining! Thanks for sharing!
Eacham Graeme Caldari PsyCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.11 06:03:00 - [26] Edited by: Eacham Graeme on 11/02/2008 06:04:01 I've lost around 650k in ships and mods so far in this particular phase of the war. If I lose the remainder of stockpiled ships, you could probably add in another 1.5B. I've ISK reserves to do that about two more times before I really need to start working for a living again. I'm just one pilot, out of many, who is fighting this war.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2008.02.11 06:10:00 - [27] Originally by: Eacham Graeme Edited by: Eacham Graeme on 11/02/2008 06:04:01 I've lost around 650k in ships and mods so far in this particular phase of the war. If I lose the remainder of stockpiled ships, you could probably add in another 1.5B. I've ISK reserves to do that about two more times before I really need to start working for a living again. I'm just one pilot, out of many, who is fighting this war. Im guessing you mean 650mil although maybe you've only lost a kestrel who knows
Guardian Angell Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.11 08:58:00 - [28] Originally by: Sinsalura No doubt trillions of isk have been spent in this war. Trillions which could have been used instead to feed the poor starving minmatar children... But this galaxy is a tough one ____________________________ Chance favors the prepared mind.
Pandares Gallente I Love The Kha'ak	Posted - 2008.02.11 09:08:00 - [29] The cost of the war is bogged-down servers on the weekend. _______________________________________________
xRazoRx The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.02.11 09:21:00 - [30] There is a joke in every joke.
Tenschu	Posted - 2008.02.11 10:13:00 - [31] Edited by: Tenschu on 11/02/2008 10:13:34 BoB have an ace up their sleeve when it comes to financing the war, and that is one of the strongest Tech II BPO collections in the game. No tinfoil hat "Devs gave them the lot" collection either. Given the huge number of extreme veteran players they got into the T2 lottery early and have built up an excessive number of BPOs, financing their operations based upon the combined Empire sales of these items. We're talking tens of billions per month in sales here. More than enough to finance a huge, operational fighty-fight fleet. This income has been curtailed of late due to their increasing loss of moon mining capability, but they will never ever be wiped out completely because they will never loose thier BPOs, they can always buy components off the market and manufacture in Empire and thus their revenue channels can never be destroyed. And herein lies the rub. Anyone who thinks they will destroy BoB by taking Delve away from them is deluding themselves. Delve is a mere convenience to BoB, allowing them to solidify their powerbase, safely manufacture Supercaps and make even more ISK. If Delve is taken away then all we'll be left with is a rampaging uber-horde of nasties running amoc over the entire Eve map without a need to be based in any one particular region. And all along, they'll be financing this from the tens of thousands of Empire carebears who are buying their stuff. Dunno about you but that scares the bejeezus out of me
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.11 10:18:00 - [32] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 11/02/2008 10:24:44 Originally by: Boid It's genuine curiosity more than anything else that has prompted me to post these questions, in full knowledge that posts that are neither from the usual clique nor from members of well known corporations are generally treated with derision and howls of, "Alt spotted!". Well, I'm not an alt, I'm truly neutral in the current war other than profiting from being an empire carebear; The demand for minerals is a wonderful thing. I occasionally browse the killboards of the involved alliances and I find the losses in terms of isk absolutely staggering even on a daily basis, I can barely comprehend the accumulated cost over the course of an entire campaign. Just how damaging are these multi-billion losses on a daily basis to a large corporation? Is it a constant battle to replenish these losses or are they easily absorbed? I can just about understand how the Coalition can manage, with easy access to all of the resources in EVE but even then such losses much surely hurt? How BoB manages to keep going is beyond me, I can only imagine that there are enormous stockpiles of ships and equipment. It's likely that I'm being incredibly naive in assuming these things are even a problem for either the Coalition or BoB and showing my complete lack of large corporation operations. I'm guessing that individual members of a corporation aren't expected to replace their own losses whilst fighting a war? As I said, it's genuine curiosity that raises these questions, I'm fascinated by the logistics that must go into feeding a campaign of this magnitude. I do enjoy reading the (factual, smack-free) battle reports and follow the war with interest. Keep up the good work! P.S. If I had to pick a side then right now it would have to be BoB if for no other reason than I'm British, we always pick the underdog. Yes, realise this wasn't always the case, I'd have been supporting the other side then! What can I say, I'm fickle. If you really must know, and I speak for myself even though I know a lot of people in my position, it is that we make so much isk in empire, that we could pvp 23/7 and still never run out of isk. Again, I speak for myself, but for me 0.0 is just a battleground and not a isk factory. Therefore I can never go bankrupt. I gave up making isk in 0.0 long ago as I would make more isk in empire semi afk than I ever did chaining 6/10 plex's in delve. Seriously. And I dont mine or rat. Thats the slowest way to make isk to be honest. Now imagine a alliance with hundreds of people like me, who are impossible to bankrupt. -- Billion Isk Mission
Cippalippus Primus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 10:36:00 - [33] Wars in 0.0 aren't about depleting the opponent's income, but its will to fight. Unless it's some kind of carebear alliance, of course... -clp
Tenschu Amarr TerraDyne Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.11 10:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Wars in 0.0 aren't about depleting the opponent's income, but its will to fight. Unless it's some kind of carebear alliance, of course... I disagree with this. Wars in 0.0 are about whatever the combatants want it to be about. For some it is epeen measurement and bragging rights. For BoB it is all about their killboard and precious little else. There's a reason why they have one fo the oldest and best updated killboards in the game, you know. BoB have the continuous isk source to make sure they constantly have more "stuff" (i.e. killmails) to place on their killboard so I highly doubt they will ever be defeated on their terms, only on those terms dictated by those who fight them.
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 10:47:00 - [35] If this were true their numbers wouldn't have dropped by between a half and a 2/3 during all time zones.
Tenschu Amarr TerraDyne Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.11 10:53:00 - [36] Mebbe, but the fleet engagements on their killboard seem to be around the same size. Anyway, wasn't this thread about financing, not participation?
7sunami Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.11 10:57:00 - [37] the war helps reduce inflation in eve
Cippalippus Primus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 10:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Tenschu Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Wars in 0.0 aren't about depleting the opponent's income, but its will to fight. Unless it's some kind of carebear alliance, of course... I disagree with this. Wars in 0.0 are about whatever the combatants want it to be about. For some it is epeen measurement and bragging rights. For BoB it is all about their killboard and precious little else. There's a reason why they have one fo the oldest and best updated killboards in the game, you know. BoB have the continuous isk source to make sure they constantly have more "stuff" (i.e. killmails) to place on their killboard so I highly doubt they will ever be defeated on their terms, only on those terms dictated by those who fight them. This is nonsense. No one wins or loses on his own terms, otherwise no one would ever lose. I could claim that my defeat is something over which the enemy has no control, IE closing my EVE subscription, and then I'd stay undefeated. The same of course goes for BoB. -clp
Giant Diablo Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.02.11 11:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Shadowsword Well, on one side, you have Bob, who most often than not gets to recover the loots on the battlefield, supported by thousands of alts grinding missions/trading/proding in empire to support their mains (dual account is a requirement in at least several bob corps). And they had a lot of stockpiled stuff. On the other side, so many players than, in absolute terms, their cumulative income is much greater than Bob's, and who can also, to some extent, rotate their presence on the front. Basically, the coalition can afford to throw fleets after fleets after fleets at Bob, if it allow them to conquer systems. And time gradually increase the coalition's advantages, as it reduce the gap in FC quality, capital fleet size and skill points. Nice analysis and a good post that i agree with totally. And is also nice to see almost no smack in this topic
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 11:07:00 - [40] Originally by: 7sunami the war helps reduce inflation in eve Actually, on the contrary. It fuels it.
olzi Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.11 11:23:00 - [41] Atleast on the Goonswarm side, the player base is largely supported by 0.0 and its resources. So while the the damages are taken on the individual level, so are the rewards of better 0.0 space. In the end you fly what you can afford to lose, and when your ship explodes you either retreat to make some isk or dip into your wallet. On both sides you have alliances with thousands of players, so some rotation can happen.
Tenschu Amarr TerraDyne Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.11 12:02:00 - [42] Originally by: Cippalippus Primus This is nonsense. No one wins or loses on his own terms, otherwise no one would ever lose. I could claim that my defeat is something over which the enemy has no control, IE closing my EVE subscription, and then I'd stay undefeated. The same of course goes for BoB. OK maybe I should clarify. BoB's capability to play the game in the manner in which they wish to play it is not going to be significantly hampered by losing Delve, simply because their ISK generating capabilities will not be destroyed. They'll not be able to make as many super-caps (but how many people are selling motherships now?) and that's about it. So although I dare say that the coalition will declare themselves to have won, BoB will not actually end up being quite as knee-capped as they would like to believe.
Kaaii Caldari PixelJuice Design Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.02.11 12:24:00 - [43] 109... According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Moon Kitten GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.02.11 12:31:00 - [44] NO BLOOD FOR VELDSPAR! We've lulled our opponents into a false sense of confidence. Oh, yes. Everything is going according to plan. Those fools, they think they can win... by winning.
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 12:36:00 - [45] we spend enough isk on fuel every week to buy a titan with
vipeer Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2008.02.11 13:41:00 - [46] Blah blah bobbitses. Last time i checked fully fitted ships do not spring up at the station when you dock. I am fairly confident that has not changed since DT today so no amount of empire isk hoarding cannot help you when there is no ships for sale on the whole Delve market. Since one needs to buy and outfit a new ship closest to the frontlines possible and that cannot be done in Delve atm if Goons are doing their job you are screwed. Camping logistical routes will prove a very good deterent and the will to fight will cease very soon. We can see the logistical train has stopped since Molle is on vacation along with some others. As always empire huggers wont be able to save 0.0 players even if both are owned by the same RL person ;) Since hauling ships from empire where you bought them should be dangerous business. If not, goons should step up the pressure. You will run out of ships real soon. Those that havent already. The key is a good market or good corp policies. As always, best isk is in exploits one can keep for himself as some Bobbit hinted previously using other words to describe. I wish i knew about one or two but i never do :( -------------SIG STARTS HERE------------- Chaining BoBo in south Feyth: Your Neutron Blaster Cannon II perfectly strikes Dukath [EVOL]<BOB>(Vindicator), wrecking for 741.0 damage.
Centauris Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.11 13:48:00 - [47] Most killboards will have links ot specific campaigns, have a look there and it will tell you a very very "accurate" figure. Just like BOB's K/D ratio. Thundercats 4 Life
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:12:00 - [48] Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 11/02/2008 14:13:30 Originally by: Tenschu Originally by: Cippalippus Primus This is nonsense. No one wins or loses on his own terms, otherwise no one would ever lose. I could claim that my defeat is something over which the enemy has no control, IE closing my EVE subscription, and then I'd stay undefeated. The same of course goes for BoB. OK maybe I should clarify. BoB's capability to play the game in the manner in which they wish to play it is not going to be significantly hampered by losing Delve, simply because their ISK generating capabilities will not be destroyed. They'll not be able to make as many super-caps (but how many people are selling motherships now?) and that's about it. So although I dare say that the coalition will declare themselves to have won, BoB will not actually end up being quite as knee-capped as they would like to believe. Dude you will never get a goon to admit that they cannot win against bob so do not bother to try. Although considering goons history with bob and the fact that they were as destroyed as you can get in eve id say they realy underestimate what it takes to actualy win if it is at all possable. What will proly happen is that goons will declare victory when they take all of bobs stations and bob will argue the point that they are still here, much like goons vs bob in the past although the situation will be reversed. Personaly id be glad if they both died and left the game as bob was way too arrogant and goons ruin and screw up the game with their lemming style tactics and they also brag about that they wish to destroy the game or at least the enjoyment of other ppl playing it.
Boid Gallente Weirdwood	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:27:00 - [49] Thanks for all the replies, some really interesting reads. It does sounds as though isk will never really be a problem for a half decent corporation or alliance. I guess the logistics of converting that isk to ships and modules and getting that hardware to where it needs to be is by far the greater issue. Anyway, it seems the thread is wandering somewhat off topic now. Probably best to let it die when it's content is still somewhat pertinent to the topic.
duckmonster GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:00:00 - [50] Originally by: Centauris Most killboards will have links ot specific campaigns, have a look there and it will tell you a very very "accurate" figure. Just like BOB's K/D ratio. I like your bee Centauris -----------
Gloomy Gus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:56:00 - [51] Many of Goonfleet's POS costs are taken care of by Jake Noble as we tend to take them as often as break them. However besides dreads and supercaps, most hardware bills are footed by the individual. For me that comes to about 50mil per fight, as I lose an Abaddon almost every time and t1 fitted an Abaddon costs me about 50mil for the insurance and the insurance at platinum covers hull and cheap hardware. Since I fly my Armageddons tII it costs about the same either way. LV's old space can generate that kind of isk easily between fights. Originally by: JakeNoble well id just like to say kilz is an epic****got plz
Seth Quantix Domination.	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:58:00 - [52] Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 11/02/2008 01:39:43 the mental age of Sirmolle, quote] Hey look the French are smacking...............Turning into your goon masters!!
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 18:35:00 - [53] What is with this perception that BoB is somehow special? No, they will do what every other beaten alliance does and disintegrate. There is no special bond holding them together. The forum warriors don't seem to understand what those of us fighting BoB do. Today's BoB is a farce. The majority of BoB are from such failed alliances as LV, RISE, and FIX. Most of BoB I see in local have been in the alliance for only a few months. The long time members don't log in (on vacation) or have left the alliance to be replaced with scrubs. BoB's propaganda machine is quite something though. Its propped them up for years and saved them from any real challenge.
Bartolomeo Colleoni Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.11 18:44:00 - [54] Originally by: Boid Thanks for all the replies, some really interesting reads. It does sounds as though isk will never really be a problem for a half decent corporation or alliance. I guess the logistics of converting that isk to ships and modules and getting that hardware to where it needs to be is by far the greater issue. Reminds me of the saying "Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics." BTW good interesting topic.
Nocturnal Avenger The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2008.02.11 19:40:00 - [55] Originally by: Zinrix It would if this were a job and not a game. Part of the enjoyment is the possibility of dying. The risk makes it worth playing. The people who lose the most are generally the people who play the most. Whenever you go into a fleet fight, you have the likelihood of dying, but if you don't PVP and you stay in empire, you don't have any fun. I endorse this product and/or statement. - Carebear Pirate -
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.11 22:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Hrin What is with this perception that BoB is somehow special? No, they will do what every other beaten alliance does and disintegrate. There is no special bond holding them together. The forum warriors don't seem to understand what those of us fighting BoB do. Today's BoB is a farce. The majority of BoB are from such failed alliances as LV, RISE, and FIX. Most of BoB I see in local have been in the alliance for only a few months. The long time members don't log in (on vacation) or have left the alliance to be replaced with scrubs. BoB's propaganda machine is quite something though. Its propped them up for years and saved them from any real challenge. Theres plenty of alliances with a new name and even some with their old name that lost their space and regained some either elsewhere or in their original systems. Goons lost to bob but sat around in npc stations or behind others, recruited like mad, napped most of eve, got a nerf or two and are now the pain in eves ass once again that they were before.
Orebuster GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 22:50:00 - [57] Originally by: HEY LISTEN Goons lost to bob but sat around in npc stations or behind others, recruited like mad, napped most of eve, got a nerf or two and are now the pain in eves ass once again that they were before. I would suggest we are much larger pains than we were before. To the OPs' question, what price can you put on liberty? How much isk is too much to spend on freedom? The shackles which BoB put on many Eve pilots have been shattered, and space will soon be as it was intended to be, held by those who have the wherewithal to hold it, fought for by those who have the testicular fortitude to fight for it, and cherished by those whose ships and treasure have gone to winning it.
Kilostream Caldari Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.11 23:27:00 - [58] Edited by: Kilostream on 11/02/2008 23:29:28 Originally by: Tenschu ....rampaging uber-horde of nasties.... They aren't doing a whole lot of rampaging at the moment, mate - and as for the t2 bpo collection - the greatest chunk of isk that will make them has already been made. Invention means anyone can be a t2 producer now and although on an individual level one guy with a few negative-ME bpc's can't compete with a bpo owner, cumulative over-supply from hundreds (or thousands) of inventors has seen prices drop and the racketeering has come to an end - BPO owners can still make isk from their BPO's, but not on anything like the scale seen pre-invention. That and the fact that we [the coalition] are systematically dismantling their moon mining pos chains is hitting them in the wallet hard. Of course you are right, losing Delve would not necessarily guarantee the end of BoB, but don't kid yourself it's "nothing more than a mere convenience" to them - it's a f*****g gold mine!
Junkie Beverage GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.11 23:53:00 - [59] Originally by: Semkhet The peeps who think that entities like BoB can be wiped off by taking away its current territory are deeply deluded. The game mechanics simply do not allow the loss of territory to translate into significant resource gains for the winner since at these scales, a single fleet battle can commonly represent losses requiring mining a dyspro moon for almost 3 years due to the limits of insurance coverage. That vs a merry band of vets using multisubs and a stash of T2 BPO's which represent an income stream which can't be neither stopped nor controlled since minerals and precursors are fungible goods. So me quietly laugh at those expecting the end of BoB. If BoB ends it will be due to endogenous causes like mismanagement, lack of leadership or cohesion, and not for things like possible circumstantial military setbacks facing overwhelming numbers or loosing control of a 0.0 backyard. Social engineering against their leadership would be far more effective than the current brute force approach. Besides, I would be delighted to know how the distinguished Coalition strategists think to cope on the long run with a BoB untied from estates. That day BoB will regain the privilege of choosing where, when and who they engage, without risking anything else than the assets thrown in battles, while Coalition members will only have achieved to exhaust trillion of isk in the current war while drawing nice red crosshairs on their beloved new POS'es networks where is lv these days anyway i never see those guys around anymore
Annaliese Witschak Galgorth's Corporation	Posted - 2008.02.11 23:54:00 - [60] Edited by: Annaliese Witschak on 11/02/2008 23:54:35 I've seen LV in empire. --- Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Disco Bum Gallente Scream Discoteque	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:04:00 - [61] BoB might have lots of $$, but how do they transport new ships and equipment to Delve? Are there any rutes from empire to Delve, that are not controled by coallition?
Digicomm The Digital Communists	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:11:00 - [62] The cost is about 7 stabs worth. Nice tactics cryilition, who needs BoB when you can pwn urselves. Comedy Fail sup?
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:11:00 - [63] Originally by: Disco Bum BoB might have lots of $$, but how do they transport new ships and equipment to Delve? Are there any rutes from empire to Delve, that are not controled by coallition? Thats why they will only last as long as they can build stuff or safely carrier it up.
acompton Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:12:00 - [64] Well it clearly costs the lives of several hamsters when the servers die every weekend... Think of the hamsters!
Disco Bum Gallente Scream Discoteque	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:15:00 - [65] Edited by: Disco Bum on 12/02/2008 00:15:50 Originally by: Digicomm The cost is about 7 stabs worth. Nice tactics cryilition, who needs BoB when you can pwn urselves. Comedy Fail My main has often 5-6 stabs in cargo, just in case I'm left behind by main fleet. Many ppl do this. You can see his low slot mods in his cargo. try harder next time Digi
Semkhet Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:21:00 - [66] Originally by: Junkie Beverage where is lv these days anyway i never see those guys around anymore It's quite funny that you mention this, since in fact you are crossing some of them almost on a daily base in Delve because many Shinra and Finfleet vets joined BoB less than a year ago. So you can speculate on alliance names, but the fact of the matter is that while allegiances might be volatile in form, these are fascinatingly resilient in substance. Everything bears consequences which ripple through time, on and on...
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:24:00 - [67] Originally by: Disco Bum Edited by: Disco Bum on 12/02/2008 00:15:50 Originally by: Digicomm The cost is about 7 stabs worth. Nice tactics cryilition, who needs BoB when you can pwn urselves. Comedy Fail My main has often 5-6 stabs in cargo, just in case I'm left behind by main fleet. Many ppl do this. You can see his low slot mods in his cargo. try harder next time Digi Stabs are a waste of time in a bubble and not theres a easier and sure fired way not to get caught by ppl with only points and stabbs aint it.
Disco Bum Gallente Scream Discoteque	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:28:00 - [68] Originally by: HEY LISTEN Stabs are a waste of time in a bubble... Yes this is true, but when left behind enemy lines and with 30 jumps home - without scout - there is not much else you can do. I know it saved my fleet BS couple of times.
Junkie Beverage GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:29:00 - [69] Originally by: Semkhet Originally by: Junkie Beverage where is lv these days anyway i never see those guys around anymore It's quite funny that you mention this, since in fact you are crossing some of them almost on a daily base in Delve because many Shinra and Finfleet vets joined BoB less than a year ago. So you can speculate on alliance names, but the fact of the matter is that while allegiances might be volatile in form, these are fascinatingly resilient in substance. Everything bears consequences which ripple through time, on and on... finfleet is the best corp in band of brothers
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:29:00 - [70] Edited by: Hrin on 12/02/2008 00:29:26 Originally by: HEY LISTEN Originally by: Disco Bum Edited by: Disco Bum on 12/02/2008 00:15:50 Originally by: Digicomm The cost is about 7 stabs worth. Nice tactics cryilition, who needs BoB when you can pwn urselves. Comedy Fail My main has often 5-6 stabs in cargo, just in case I'm left behind by main fleet. Many ppl do this. You can see his low slot mods in his cargo. try harder next time Digi Stabs are a waste of time in a bubble and not theres a easier and sure fired way not to get caught by ppl with only points and stabbs aint it. yeah its in my sig. Ask a couple BoB pilots about it.
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:37:00 - [71] Originally by: Hrin Edited by: Hrin on 12/02/2008 00:29:26 Originally by: HEY LISTEN Originally by: Disco Bum Edited by: Disco Bum on 12/02/2008 00:15:50 Originally by: Digicomm The cost is about 7 stabs worth. Nice tactics cryilition, who needs BoB when you can pwn urselves. Comedy Fail My main has often 5-6 stabs in cargo, just in case I'm left behind by main fleet. Many ppl do this. You can see his low slot mods in his cargo. try harder next time Digi Stabs are a waste of time in a bubble and not theres a easier and sure fired way not to get caught by ppl with only points and stabbs aint it. yeah its in my sig. Ask a couple BoB pilots about it. Nope and not even close lol you guys realy do suck at actualy playing this game dont you.
Pseudothei GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:56:00 - [72] Edited by: Pseudothei on 12/02/2008 01:05:27 Originally by: HEY LISTEN Nope and not even close lol you guys realy do suck at actualy playing this game dont you. I know I suck. The irony being that BoB is losing, tbqh. lol
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.12 01:05:00 - [73] Originally by: Pseudothei Edited by: Pseudothei on 12/02/2008 00:57:24 Originally by: HEY LISTEN Nope and not even close lol you guys realy do suck at actualy playing this game dont you. I know I suck. The irony being that BoB is losing, tbqh. lol Its their own fault for making holding space their thing instead of pvp cos as soon as ppl do that all it needs is enough numbers to get beat as im sure you will find out eventualy.
Pseudothei GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.12 01:10:00 - [74] Originally by: HEY LISTEN Its their own fault for making holding space their thing instead of pvp cos as soon as ppl do that all it needs is enough numbers to get beat as im sure you will find out eventualy. Exactly.
Pseudothei GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.12 01:12:00 - [75] Wait... what?
Sekhmet Orion Mandatory Suicide Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.12 01:18:00 - [76] Originally by: HEY LISTEN Nope and not even close lol you guys realy do suck at actualy playing this game dont you. Hey listen ( I would spell it wrong if I wanted to hang with you) It would appear that you have had your nose up SirMolle's sexy butt so long that it has cut the oxygen supply off to your brain. Why are you trying to say Goons suck when they are taking everything from your pretty little BOB main. Fight more...smack less
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.12 01:59:00 - [77] Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 12/02/2008 02:03:51 Originally by: Sekhmet Orion Originally by: HEY LISTEN Nope and not even close lol you guys realy do suck at actualy playing this game dont you. Hey listen ( I would spell it wrong if I wanted to hang with you) It would appear that you have had your nose up SirMolle's sexy butt so long that it has cut the oxygen supply off to your brain. Why are you trying to say Goons suck when they are taking everything from your pretty little BOB main. Fight more...smack less Im not a member of bob in fact up until a week or so ago i was in delve shooting at them. Why is it that blinkered reards like you think that because sombody does not like a particular style of play or the ppl that use it that they are always on the other side?. Are you so two dimensional that you cannot even think that just because i do not buy into all the bullsht propaganda that im a bob alt?. stfu more......post less
Sekhmet Orion Mandatory Suicide Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.12 02:05:00 - [78] Originally by: HEY LISTEN lots of aggression...little content Have you ever posted anything decent? Stop crying and enjoy the game little man. And as for being a sheep with propaganda...nice sig numpty
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.12 02:11:00 - [79] Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 12/02/2008 02:13:42 Originally by: HEY LISTEN Im not a member of bob in fact up until a week or so ago i was in delve shooting at them. Why is it that blinkered reards like you think that because sombody does not like a particular style of play or the ppl that use it that they are always on the other side?. Are you so two dimensional that you cannot even think that just because i do not buy into all the bullsht propaganda that im a bob alt?. stfu more......post less Originally by: Sekhmet Orion I have never posted anything decent although i do post one liners about crying and enjoying the game like im actualy getting to ppl. And as for being a sheep with propaganda i actualy called you a bob alt and then make a comment about your goon sig. Your right i should realy stfu and not fall back on stupid and pointless "cryalition" posts. Fixed
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Omniscient Order	Posted - 2008.02.12 02:26:00 - [80] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 12/02/2008 02:35:39 Originally by: Sky Marshal We can state that it is... Really a lot of ISK. That sounds about right, +/- 10%
portney	Posted - 2008.02.12 02:45:00 - [81] read my bio
Danyael Tyren Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.12 03:26:00 - [82] You guys are forgetting the real cost of this war. A price paid everyday by every single person in this forum. Terrible, terrible posts by alts. Because of this war, we have to see threads and posts from the like of Hey Listen, that Windyprops guy, the Mittani, Arghy, sometimes even me. I weep for the future.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.02.12 05:58:00 - [83] the only real cost is fun as lagfests are apparently no fun although some people tend to forget that this is a game
Tenschu Amarr TerraDyne Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.12 08:28:00 - [84] If this thread had been allowed to die when the OP asked for it, it would have been so less full of crap by now... Where are the mods when you need them?
Kaaii Caldari PixelJuice Design Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:00:00 - [85] If Pend insurance would stop paying out in null sec, the price of war, a war of attrition would actually mean something.... According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Drachma Golea Caldari Egnop	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:45:00 - [86] Originally by: vipeer Blah blah bobbitses. Last time i checked fully fitted ships do not spring up at the station when you dock. I am fairly confident that has not changed since DT today so no amount of empire isk hoarding cannot help you when there is no ships for sale on the whole Delve market. Since one needs to buy and outfit a new ship closest to the frontlines possible and that cannot be done in Delve atm if Goons are doing their job you are screwed. Camping logistical routes will prove a very good deterent and the will to fight will cease very soon. We can see the logistical train has stopped since Molle is on vacation along with some others. As always empire huggers wont be able to save 0.0 players even if both are owned by the same RL person ;) Since hauling ships from empire where you bought them should be dangerous business. If not, goons should step up the pressure. You will run out of ships real soon. Those that havent already. The key is a good market or good corp policies. This ^-^ and ONLY this is how much it costs. Welcome to real war, it is logistics and only logistics that counts, and yes the Goons and allies have a steady form of a continues supply of ships and other supplies to keep it going at this moment. Logistics coming from the south, the east and the north. And they just keep on coming.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.13 19:07:00 - [87] Personally, I haven't had any trouble supplying myself through this war. Still have a reserve of about 14 ships (with everything from tech 2 cruisers to tech 1 frigates) on the front and my ISK reserves have barely moved. (And I'm not even using my industrial alt right now.)
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2008.02.13 22:06:00 - [88] Originally by: Tenschu Originally by: Cippalippus Primus This is nonsense. No one wins or loses on his own terms, otherwise no one would ever lose. I could claim that my defeat is something over which the enemy has no control, IE closing my EVE subscription, and then I'd stay undefeated. The same of course goes for BoB. OK maybe I should clarify. BoB's capability to play the game in the manner in which they wish to play it is not going to be significantly hampered by losing Delve, simply because their ISK generating capabilities will not be destroyed. They'll not be able to make as many super-caps (but how many people are selling motherships now?) and that's about it. So although I dare say that the coalition will declare themselves to have won, BoB will not actually end up being quite as knee-capped as they would like to believe. That is a good point but did you take into consideration that the t2 item production with every joes inventions running 24/7 and many more joes starting to invent is basically going to become a same deal as t1 "minerals that i mine are free :D" The only part of it that still makes the profit are the components and those are only created by moonmining hence you need 0.0 if you buy in empire today your prfits on t2 items are marginal today and its going to get worse.
Mark Amarr Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.13 22:25:00 - [89] Edited by: Mark Amarr on 13/02/2008 22:26:25 Originally by: Boid ....I occasionally browse the killboards of the involved alliances and I find the losses in terms of isk absolutely staggering even on a daily basis, I can barely comprehend the accumulated cost over the course of an entire campaign. Just how damaging are these multi-billion losses on a daily basis to a large corporation? Is it a constant battle to replenish these losses or are they easily absorbed?.... I can't speak for all corps - only the one I'm in, the cost of losses is borne partly personally, but there is a scheme that is corp funded that mitigates the personal losses (in alliance pvp) to a much more manageable level. I had a go at making an ass-generated figure for the overall cost, but I could probably only make a meaningful estimate at battleship cost since I have personal experience of how much it costs me but, in terms of POS infrastructure, capital fleets, and the support network, I don't have even rough figures on which to base any calculations. I wouldn't be surprised if the figure is well into the tens of trillions, though.
Potty Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.13 23:41:00 - [90] I'm in the so called coaltion. Every T2 rigged Mega I lose costs me 20mill ISK, I have a 5bn wallet you work it out. The cost of all the ships lost in the 'great war' is alot, but each player when helped by their corp or alliance makes each loss rarther small imo. And in responce to the chap who stated "they cants just be doing it for fun". We are, its a game, killing stuff is fun. Killing stuff with a purpose is fun. Attemping to Kill bob is even more fun. If you want to look at real isk cost, just view the cap loss's. In this day and age most people work in billions not millions in contrast to 2-3 years ago when 100mill was alot. Today its relitivly peanuts.
Boid Gallente Weirdwood	Posted - 2008.02.20 16:13:00 - [91] As a matter of interest I wrote a quick app to pull the data from Bob's killboard for previous 365 days until today - 20th Feb 2008. Here are some of the raw numbers. Total BoB kills - 78273 ISK value lost to BoB kills: 2249888920858 Total number Bob deaths: 21685 ISK value of BoB deaths: 735724728762 Before anyone jumps in I know this isn't accurate and is simply the view from the BoB killboards, there will be gross inaccuracies and it is no doubt horribly biased. The graphs for this data over the entire 365 days are generally fairly constant with 5 noticeable massive spike periods, I assume mothership or dreadnought losses account for these. The ISK numbers actually aren't as huge as I thought they were going to be, just a little short of 3 trillion. Then again, I'm glad it didn't come out of my pocket! Anyway, useless information I'm sure but I thought I'd share it nonetheless.
Stoggaf Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:30:00 - [92] Edited by: Stoggaf on 20/02/2008 17:32:03 Myself and a team of my work colleagues who also play EVE have written a script that is currently in the process of scanning multiple kill boards belonging to different alliances participating in the war. It takes the data from both sides. It processes the data in a number of extremely complex steps. I'll provide a brief overview of these steps. Upon first extraction from a kill board, it scans the database for duplicate kill mails. Provided it is not a duplicate kill mail the kill mail will enter the next stage of the process. The kill mails extracted from each kill board must have certain attributes to qualify as adding to the total cost of the war. Once a kill mail gets through, and the requirements of the kill mails attributes have been met, the script defines how much the loss was worth based upon current prices on the market in Jita. The prices, we acquire from another script which accurately logs market prices and holds the average price which I will not get in to. If anyone would like to review the source code of the script, it can be found in the link at the bottom of this post. Anyway, once the script has finished scanning hopefully we will have a very accurate estimate at the cost in ships and poses so far for either side. I wont expect to have a fully accurate estimation for about another week and a bit. We've currently made our way through near 70,000 kill mails, and so far the cost is well over 9000 billion isk. Links Link to source code. Link to data presentation. :3
Razvic Minmatar Wolfen Holding Company	Posted - 2008.02.21 02:07:00 - [93] ...
Proxay Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2008.02.21 02:13:00 - [94] Originally by: Razvic ... Text is usually required to make a post. And posting is what you should stop doing. If you're going to remove a signature, at least make sure it's got something that breaks the EULA, k-ta.
NeoTheo Final Conflict UK SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:52:00 - [95] Originally by: Muro Deez Originally by: Boid I occasionally browse the killboards of the involved alliances and I find the losses in terms of isk absolutely staggering even on a daily basis, I can barely comprehend the accumulated cost over the course of an entire campaign. Just how damaging are these multi-billion losses on a daily basis to a large corporation? Is it a constant battle to replenish these losses or are they easily absorbed? As said above, most corps don't have reimbursement plans in place, a lot of the cost is borne by the pilots. Speaking for myself, it's not difficult to replace lost ships. Quote: I can just about understand how the Coalition can manage, with easy access to all of the resources in EVE but even then such losses much surely hurt? How BoB manages to keep going is beyond me, I can only imagine that there are enormous stockpiles of ships and equipment. It's likely that I'm being incredibly naive in assuming these things are even a problem for either the Coalition or BoB and showing my complete lack of large corporation operations. I'm guessing that individual members of a corporation aren't expected to replace their own losses whilst fighting a war? Yes, individual pilots replace their own stuff unless there are plans in place for it ie. capital reimbursement or the like. BoB's income has been cut dramatically over the last few months, so I'd say while they may still be breaking even, they're probably dipping into their savings from the last year or two. Quote: As I said, it's genuine curiosity that raises these questions, I'm fascinated by the logistics that must go into feeding a campaign of this magnitude. Here's a good figure for you: isk involved in pos logistics for campaigns like delve are often only 10-20% of an alliance's overall monthly fuel cost. Towers and modules aren't actually that expensive. OMG OMG OMG, a none smacky response from a goon, :) SIR I SALUTE YOU!
Suckjob	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:47:00 - [96] I'd imagine the cost to most alliances is huge except for Goons who seem content to use scrap setups whilst their allies lose caps. GG
Reacz Caldari Empirius Enigmus Navy Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:49:00 - [97] The Cost: My sanity as it slowly bleeds away because of all the douchebaggery.
DoctorGonzo Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:58:00 - [98] Key assumptions in working out the cost of the war, On average there's been 40k accounts involved Average cost per account ú12 per month The war has been running for about 12 months 40,000 x ú12 x 12 months = ú5,760,000 Basically the cost of the war to the players involved is a staggering ú5.76 million.
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:19:00 - [99] Originally by: DoctorGonzo Basically the cost of the war to the players involved is a staggering ú5.76 million. Dunno what the ISK price is but I'm pretty sure we could get oort a new titan for that aswell as a new MS for us :) --- "Cutting Edge 4 Life"
Mele STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:54:00 - [100] I dont actually think the cost of this 'great war' is very high at all because in order to work out the cost of it imo you need to compare it to the cost of a non great war period. If there wasnt a great war on atm then there would still be loads of alliance wars going on all over the place. Some want power, some want glory, some just wanna fight and some just like seeing expensive things go pop, and because of that there will allways be isk lost to fights. Its just because of the current polarized political situation with most of the eve population split into 2 camps duking it out for over a year now that makes it look like loads of isk is being lost. Imho the true 'cost' of this war should be calculated in terms systems and assets won and lost. Or political clout/influence gained or lost. Because a station in a rich constellation, access to a top plex, top mineral moons or from a political pov even the preception of your military might by other alliances far outweight the cost of ships and modules.
Akov Stohs FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:01:00 - [101] Just fyi, my corp has a full replacement policy. I've not spent any isk of my own yet this war.

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