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risall
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Posted - 2008.02.11 01:52:00 -
[1]
Why the hell, cant you guys at CCP give us a reliable service capable of handling the amount of players that you take monthly time money from????? Once again, a fleet battle ends up in lock ups and not able to get back on. This is a non provision of service and is illegal to the extent that you are taking money and not providing goods that are suitable for the use to which they are intended. Try putting some of the money back into the game in server upgrades (that are always promised but never materialise). Start upholding your end of the contract!!!!
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.02.11 01:53:00 -
[2]
The game doesn't lag because the server is insufficient, the game lags because people ******* join the battle until it lags.
CCP is working on improving the servers.
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Jamie Freely
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Posted - 2008.02.11 01:54:00 -
[3]
I like this game, but if you don't then stop playing
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Sarkkon
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Posted - 2008.02.11 02:03:00 -
[4]
Blob untill cluster crashes and hope you oponents cant get back on faster then you can. Tactic working as intended.
Maybe try something besides the 200 cap ship blob?
Just a thought...
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Nicholas Barker
MASS
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.02.11 02:08:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Sarkkon
Blob untill cluster crashes and hope you oponents cant get back on faster then you can. Tactic working as intended.
Maybe try something besides the 200 cap ship blob?
Just a thought...
how about they change the game mechanics so they don't need people to do that?
how about make it so you have to attack multiple systems at the same time, that'll cut the cake up abit, and try to work it so the different places are on different nodes :p
---
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Sarkkon
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Posted - 2008.02.11 02:17:00 -
[6]
maybe players need to adjust our strategies as well...
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codex09
Minmatar
Entropy Systems Mining Co.
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.11 02:18:00 -
[7]
I don't like the lag either and believe it MUST be fixed before they start worrying about walking in stations and EVE-voice, BUT as for what they are doing being illegal I am not so sure about that.
You need to have a very close read of the End User Agreement and in there you wil probably find that they cover them selves very well for the lag and other issues.
Now having said that I am not trying to say that they are right in what they are doing, in fact I truly believe that they are failing all of the players/customers by not at least making a bigger attempt to get the lag/desync to a playable level.
Now doing this is hard for many reasons but the main one is:
1). If they make it possible for 500 players to be in a fleet battle, 800 will very soon start turning up and the next thing you know the lag raises it's ugly head again. So maybe they need to look at some other sort of approach to this part of the problem. (I have no idea what can be done tat would help without it being used by one side or the other to win fights/systems/sov etc etc)
[URL=http://www.glitteryourway.com][/URL] |
Sarkkon
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Posted - 2008.02.11 02:25:00 -
[8]
maybe you can turn their blob agains t them, if the have 800 ships attacking one system (and you know they are comming) how many of their systems and statiosn are left unguarded? lose one of yours and fry many of theirs, couple rounds of this and they sti=op blobbin..lol
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.02.11 02:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sarkkon
maybe you can turn their blob agains t them, if the have 800 ships attacking one system (and you know they are comming) how many of their systems and statiosn are left unguarded? lose one of yours and fry many of theirs, couple rounds of this and they sti=op blobbin..lol
Strategery? In my EVE? GTFO
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OwlManAtt
Gallente
Yaasashii Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.02.11 02:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
The game doesn't lag because the server is insufficient, the game lags because people ******* join the battle until it lags.
God forbid somebody fixes that problem. No, instead, let's just whine about people having large fleet battles and blame them for the game not being able to handle something that it allows them to do.
Quote:
CCP is working on improving the servers.
This has been a problem that has gone on for a very long time. Where is the stop-gap fix until the real fix is ready?
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SVP OwlManAtt, Yasashii Syndicate |
Kil'Roy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.11 03:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
The game doesn't lag because the server is insufficient, the game lags because people ******* join the battle until it lags.
CCP is working on improving the servers.
Yes, and if a node could support 2500 players lag free, 5500 would try to join, until they can't due to lag...
Kind like any crowded place. People will go, until it is too unconfortalbe to be there.
It's called Mob in rl or blob in game.
Honestly, the only ones who can prevent it are individual players themselves, and due to human nature, that will never happen. 
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.02.11 03:33:00 -
[12]
Quote:
This has been a problem that has gone on for a very long time. Where is the stop-gap fix until the real fix is ready?
They are, but as more and more people join EVE ,it becomes increasingly hard to fix.
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WarlockX
Amarr
Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2008.02.11 03:59:00 -
[13]
you know whats even more annoying? driving to work during rush hour..
why can't the government do something about the highways!?
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"I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation." |
Cipher7
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Posted - 2008.02.11 04:05:00 -
[14]
If the node can't support 400 people then don't let 400 people get on the node.
Hows that for a novel concept.
"You cannot enter this system, it is filled to capacity [300/300]"
Let the system accept the number of players it can actually SUPPORT.
People blob because the game encourages it by allowing them to. No amount of throwing server resources at the problem will fix it. There has to be deisgn changes to the mechanics to allow X number of people to parcitipate in combat, where X is the number of people that the hardware can actually support.
If it cant support it, dont let them in.
But don't just let everyone go anywhere willy nilly and then throw your hands up when it causes a node crash.
That's like having no doormen at a club, it has a capacity of 300 but 800 people come in and the dance floor collapses into the basement.
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Anna Avarice
Corp 1 Allstars
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.11 04:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Yes, and if a node could support 2500 players lag free, 5500 would try to join
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Illyrinia
Caldari
Friendly Hostility
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Posted - 2008.02.11 04:18:00 -
[16]
if more people would leave the 'safety' of high sec, and go out to low sec, and 0.0, and FIGHT to be there, less crowding would happen, more systems would be settled, and it would make it easier on everyone... high sec is for the weak.... *huddles in a station in .3*
You are trying to post to a locked thread
CONCORD has been notified
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Kil'Roy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.11 04:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cipher7
If the node can't support 400 people then don't let 400 people get on the node.
Hows that for a novel concept.
That would be quickly exploited by defending forces.
Any limiting mechanic, other than lag, could be exploited, and that is even exploited at times, like purposeful node crashes so you can get your forces waiting outside, in, before the defenders can log back on.
The super computer should fix it. 
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Dreadchain
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.11 06:14:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Dreadchain on 11/02/2008 06:15:01
Allow sov4 lock systems upto say, 100 hostiles? So the attackers would have to spread in each system for the constellation? 
Im just a newb when it comes to 0.0 war, don't have to take my ideas seriously, but feel free to comment 
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Your Carebarestare wrecks Evul Piwat for 891 veldspar damage. |
Dristra
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.11 07:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Anna Avarice
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Yes, and if a node could support 2500 players lag free, 5500 would try to join
This.
Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions!
I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them. |
Mei Han
Gallente
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.11 07:44:00 -
[20]
I don't see how a 400 local was not "predicted" by CCP. And to those that say "Do not blob"... Alliance is a part of game mechanics and alliance warefare should be handled smoothly. Because as it is right now, EVE is a PVE game and the player minority raid the "Server" which is a huge monster droping nodes and stuff.
Oh and BTW the new client sux. I expected the freezeups(while having 50fps) in combat to be fixed but yea....
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Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.02.11 07:59:00 -
[21]
The only semi-reasonable solution I can even think of is limiting each alliance (or corporation, if said corporation is not in an alliance) to having 50-75 ships in the same system at the same time. Obviously, this would **** people off, and I'm not saying it's a good solution... just the best I can think of.
It may not even work due to the fact that multiple systems are on the same node all at once.
The fact is, though, that more ships means more firepower, support, etc. The more you have, the higher your chances of winning. Until something is implemented to alleviate that fact, blobbing will never go away, and neither will the lag.
________________
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Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.11 08:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: OwlManAtt
This has been a problem that has gone on for a very long time. Where is the stop-gap fix until the real fix is ready?
Probably becuase there is no stop-gap fix that will solve the problem until they do the upgrade using infiniband and other things. They've been constantly improving the hardware and improving the code over the years, but now it'll need a huge change to the server architechture to get results.
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risall
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Posted - 2008.02.11 08:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
They are, but as more and more people join EVE ,it becomes increasingly hard to fix.
But yet.....they continue to take peoples money. which means they are saying "There is no problem, we can handle the extra traffic"
Yeah right.....as the title says...Grab the money!!!!
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risall
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Posted - 2008.02.11 08:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jamie Freely
I like this game, but if you don't then stop playing
I didnt say anything about not liking the game....or did you just want to post something, anything, useless or not??
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2008.02.11 09:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: risall
Why the hell, cant you guys at CCP give us a reliable service capable of handling the amount of players that you take monthly time money from????? Once again, a fleet battle ends up in lock ups and not able to get back on. This is a non provision of service and is illegal to the extent that you are taking money and not providing goods that are suitable for the use to which they are intended. Try putting some of the money back into the game in server upgrades (that are always promised but never materialise). Start upholding your end of the contract!!!!
they are constantly upgrading servers.. but the lag thing and node crash will never go away.
wanna know why ?? because atm you cant have a 300vs300 fight... when they make it possible.... one side thinks.... okay... we dont want to do it and bring 600vs300 and hello... node crash. ccp upgrades and now you can have 600vs600.... ppl bring 1000 on one side and voila... node crash. there will allways be alliances/coalitions who will try and do that.
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This is Me |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.11 09:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cipher7
If the node can't support 400 people then don't let 400 people get on the node.
Hows that for a novel concept.
"You cannot enter this system, it is filled to capacity [300/300]"
Let the system accept the number of players it can actually SUPPORT.
People blob because the game encourages it by allowing them to. No amount of throwing server resources at the problem will fix it. There has to be deisgn changes to the mechanics to allow X number of people to parcitipate in combat, where X is the number of people that the hardware can actually support.
If it cant support it, dont let them in.
But don't just let everyone go anywhere willy nilly and then throw your hands up when it causes a node crash.
That's like having no doormen at a club, it has a capacity of 300 but 800 people come in and the dance floor collapses into the basement.
Give us a "fair" system to allocate ship to the two/more fleets in the combat and we can speak.
Your 300/300 example:
- 300 of the system owning alliance/300 other? Ops, the defender has put in space 200 noob alt in the NPC corporations so we can attack with only 100 ships
- 300 in each alliance? oops the attackers are in 3 alliances the defenders in 2, so the attackers have a 3 to 2 advantage;
- 600 total, first in get the space? Defender standing order would be to bring all the noob alt in system and log them when he main is not palying, so the system is already at saturation point.
Any mechanic limiting access to a system based on number of ships can be exploited.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.11 09:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Illyrinia
if more people would leave the 'safety' of high sec, and go out to low sec, and 0.0, and FIGHT to be there, less crowding would happen, more systems would be settled, and it would make it easier on everyone... high sec is for the weak.... *huddles in a station in .3*
You have even read the argument there? Or you think that 300 vs 300 fleet fight happen in 1.0?
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Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.11 10:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jakus Cemendur
Originally by: OwlManAtt
This has been a problem that has gone on for a very long time. Where is the stop-gap fix until the real fix is ready?
Probably becuase there is no stop-gap fix that will solve the problem until they do the upgrade using infiniband and other things. They've been constantly improving the hardware and improving the code over the years, but now it'll need a huge change to the server architechture to get results.
You forgot that they have also added a lot of dubious features over the years that greatly increased lag...
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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baltec1
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Posted - 2008.02.11 10:54:00 -
[29]
People who whine and complain about laggy mega blobs need to give themselves a slap. Very few games will let 200 people fight it out without game stopping lag let alone 400-500.
Most of the lag is caused by crappy computers and bad connections on the players side. This is why I can wander around jita while others are crashing and getting stuck.
CCP have said they are working on it and no ammount of complaining and insults is going to make it go any faster.
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Liberator 1
Gallente
Dhul Qarnayn
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Posted - 2008.02.11 11:08:00 -
[30]
Stop moaning and get on with it.
CCP are your friends, your cynical attitude is probably wrong, they aren't just sitting in the CCP office twiddling their thumbs, the management are paying people good money to fix stuff. They are a victim of their own success - have you any idea how tough it is to make a system run with the number of users in Eve?
I think considering that fact its a miracle it works as well as it does. In fact, its a triumph of programming.
Well done CCP.
L1
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Dreadchain
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.11 11:18:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Dreadchain on 11/02/2008 11:18:04
Originally by: baltec1
People who whine and complain about laggy mega blobs need to give themselves a slap. Very few games will let 200 people fight it out without game stopping lag let alone 400-500.
Indeed. Let's take a look at that highly popular game, world of warcraft, maybe some of you have heard of it?
Get 80 friends in it and attack a random city, the server is bound to crash. If it doesn't crash, it's unplayably laggy, which is followed by the forums crashing due to a massive wave of whine.
Eve servers are in their own class, be happy you're not stuck with the crappy 5v5 preset fights with a 20 minute queue.
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Your Carebarestare wrecks Evul Piwat for 891 veldspar damage. |
Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.11 11:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Liberator 1
They are a victim of their own success - have you any idea how tough it is to make a system run with the number of users in Eve?
I think considering that fact its a miracle it works as well as it does. In fact, its a triumph of programming.
Well done CCP.
L1
It must be working really really well then in contrast to all the moaning on the forums about lag, since CCP's #1 priority is to get even more players (considering their advertising budget).
I'd like to see some of the stuff that has been fixed in the last couple of years, please. I still get 10-15s warp-in lag in any engagement with 20+ people and I have one of the fastest graphics cards on the market (so it's not client load).
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Sal Alo
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.02.11 12:28:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kil'Roy
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
The game doesn't lag because the server is insufficient, the game lags because people ******* join the battle until it lags.
CCP is working on improving the servers.
Yes, and if a node could support 2500 players lag free, 5500 would try to join, until they can't due to lag...
Kind like any crowded place. People will go, until it is too unconfortalbe to be there.
It's called Mob in rl or blob in game.
Honestly, the only ones who can prevent it are individual players themselves, and due to human nature, that will never happen.
Quoted a great lesson of life. Next time you can help somebody, DO NOT DO IT! Other 30 billions persons in the world need help and they will not get it.
Those damn humans...
Roll caldari, thank you.
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isomo gelard
Gallente
White Shadow Imperium
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Posted - 2008.02.11 13:54:00 -
[34]
u try find a game that allows 30,000+ players play on the same server. also..are there any other games that supports 300 vs 300 battles? only in eve will u ever see this. so stop complaining about lag...if u want lag, join a fleet op in delve when there is a lot of activity there. heh, then u will see lag
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baltec1
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Posted - 2008.02.11 14:10:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Liberator 1
They are a victim of their own success - have you any idea how tough it is to make a system run with the number of users in Eve?
I think considering that fact its a miracle it works as well as it does. In fact, its a triumph of programming.
Well done CCP.
L1
It must be working really really well then in contrast to all the moaning on the forums about lag, since CCP's #1 priority is to get even more players (considering their advertising budget).
I'd like to see some of the stuff that has been fixed in the last couple of years, please. I still get 10-15s warp-in lag in any engagement with 20+ people and I have one of the fastest graphics cards on the market (so it's not client load).
I have no issues with lag untill I get into a 150+ man fight and my pc is still running a radion 9550. So yes, that lag would be on your end.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Do Or Die And Live Or Try
The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.02.11 14:40:00 -
[36]
Originally by: risall
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
They are, but as more and more people join EVE ,it becomes increasingly hard to fix.
But yet.....they continue to take peoples money. which means they are saying "There is no problem, we can handle the extra traffic"
Yeah right.....as the title says...Grab the money!!!!
You should get a job. Find out how things work.
CCP are delivering the game, which is cutting edge in many areas. Cutting edge is not tested or optimized. That is work in progress. Do you think the car you are driven in was the first kind of car created?? No, car's have more than 100 years of history. The first cars didn't have a roof, should Ford stop asking money from the buyer because the cars didn't have a roof? No, they should not. If the buyer wanted a roof, he would have to wait till they added one.
If you don't like the game and if the game does not live up to your expectations, leave the game and stop wasting your money on it. You are not forced by law to participate in this game.
But ofcourse, CCP should just do all the work for free until it lives up to your standards .
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Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.11 15:13:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
Originally by: risall
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
They are, but as more and more people join EVE ,it becomes increasingly hard to fix.
But yet.....they continue to take peoples money. which means they are saying "There is no problem, we can handle the extra traffic"
Yeah right.....as the title says...Grab the money!!!!
You should get a job. Find out how things work.
CCP are delivering the game, which is cutting edge in many areas. Cutting edge is not tested or optimized. That is work in progress. Do you think the car you are driven in was the first kind of car created?? No, car's have more than 100 years of history. The first cars didn't have a roof, should Ford stop asking money from the buyer because the cars didn't have a roof? No, they should not. If the buyer wanted a roof, he would have to wait till they added one.
If you don't like the game and if the game does not live up to your expectations, leave the game and stop wasting your money on it. You are not forced by law to participate in this game.
But ofcourse, CCP should just do all the work for free until it lives up to your standards .
Nice description there of a game that is in the development stage (i.e. not finished) and where the game testers are paying to play ...
You're not doing CCP a service with such analogies. Try to argue instead that the game has minor flaws which are actively being fixed (we hope ... some day) and the fact that it is so popular despite the issues with it shows that these issues aren't such huge problems for most of the players.
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Angela Toren
Amarr
Toren Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.02.11 15:15:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
The game doesn't lag because the server is insufficient, the game lags because people ******* join the battle until it lags.
I'm sorry sir but that is bs. It is well known that the game suffers from insanely high node cpu usuage during fleet fights.
50 v 50 = it barely manages
100 v 100 = it chokes and spluuters blood
150+ v 150+ = SOMETHING HAPPENED, server up in 10 minutes!
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Agent Li
Caldari
Galactic Defence Consortium
BLACKHAWK FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.02.11 16:15:00 -
[39]
Originally by: risall
Why the hell, cant you guys at CCP give us a reliable service capable of handling the amount of players that you take monthly time money from????? Once again, a fleet battle ends up in lock ups and not able to get back on. This is a non provision of service and is illegal to the extent that you are taking money and not providing goods that are suitable for the use to which they are intended. Try putting some of the money back into the game in server upgrades (that are always promised but never materialise). Start upholding your end of the contract!!!!
Read the EULA. It's not illegal, and it's not a non-provision of service. You accepted the quality of service when you agreed to the EULA.
Additionally, I am not convinced that all connection/lag problems are the fault of CCP. I have the very strong opinion that a lot of this is ISP related, which can have deleterious effects upstream at the CCP servers.
Why don't you call your ISP? I'm sure there's a better chance that they have violated their terms of service.
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Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire. |
Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.11 16:21:00 -
[40]
Originally by: WarlockX
you know whats even more annoying? driving to work during rush hour..
why can't the government do something about the highways!?
yeah cause thats real life, and we play a game called internet space ships... You get paid to go to work and have to deal with all the **** necessary to get there and back, we are paying and using free time to play a game that doesn't work.
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Auron Shadowbane
Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2008.02.11 16:28:00 -
[41]
yeah please let the grafics guys and creative thinkerers ruin the code even more by fixing lag before new features.
guys I hope you arent responsible for something important in real life. I gues you think harvesting a farm twice a day yields more corn than once a season, right?
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Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.11 16:37:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Riho
they are constantly upgrading servers.. but the lag thing and node crash will never go away.
wanna know why ?? because atm you cant have a 300vs300 fight... when they make it possible.... one side thinks.... okay... we dont want to do it and bring 600vs300 and hello... node crash. ccp upgrades and now you can have 600vs600.... ppl bring 1000 on one side and voila... node crash. there will allways be alliances/coalitions who will try and do that.
If you didnt need 100's of people, organizing around both euro and US timezones, and had serious options in terms of hurting people's POS's making money, POS's holding SOV, then these fleet fights wouldnt happen as often or would not be as necessary. If HP was reduced, so that small groups can go in and disable services/assets, combat would be spread out among TZ's but since you really need 100+ BS/Support, to drop cyno jammers, to bring in dreads to shoot harderned large towers which can take hours, these game mechanics require blobing, they require large numbers of people, which in turn brings out larger numbers of defenders.
The HP of station services, WHICH WERE CONCEIVED TO DELIEVER SMALL GANG WARFARE, were given way too much HP.
So a stop-gap fix would be to lower the HP of POS's, anchorables, Station services. Whatever is quick to take down can be repped back in as quickly
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The Internets
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Posted - 2008.02.11 16:39:00 -
[43]
How about creating an instance in situations where there are enough people to crash a node; free travel back and fourth from the instance to allow reinforcements/etc, but would be using a dedicated server.
And it's not the players' faults for bringing in enough forces to cause node crashes/extreme lag to happen. It's CCPs fault for encouraging such behavior and not providing the proper support.
It is not the player's fault for playing the game.
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Taedrin
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.02.11 16:57:00 -
[44]
Quote:
If the node can't support 400 people then don't let 400 people get on the node.
Hows that for a novel concept.
"You cannot enter this system, it is filled to capacity [300/300]"
Let the system accept the number of players it can actually SUPPORT.
People blob because the game encourages it by allowing them to. No amount of throwing server resources at the problem will fix it. There has to be deisgn changes to the mechanics to allow X number of people to parcitipate in combat, where X is the number of people that the hardware can actually support.
If it cant support it, dont let them in.
But don't just let everyone go anywhere willy nilly and then throw your hands up when it causes a node crash.
That's like having no doormen at a club, it has a capacity of 300 but 800 people come in and the dance floor collapses into the basement.
They tried that already. They called them "jump queues". Everybody hated it.
Quote:
It must be working really really well then in contrast to all the moaning on the forums about lag, since CCP's #1 priority is to get even more players (considering their advertising budget).
I'd like to see some of the stuff that has been fixed in the last couple of years, please. I still get 10-15s warp-in lag in any engagement with 20+ people and I have one of the fastest graphics cards on the market (so it's not client load).
Might I ask where you obtained CCPs advertising budget? I highly doubt that CCP's #1 priority is advertising. I have one of the worst graphics cards on the market, yet I don't have this 10-15s warp-in lag on engagements with 20+ people.
Let's also ignore the fact that CCP is working on that whole Infini-band thing, trying to make EVE one of the most powerful super computers in the world.
CCP provides a service to us, and we continue to pay them for said service. If you feel that CCP is not providing you with the service you desire, you are free to cancel your subscription. CCP is a corporation. Their #1 concern is profitability. If they lose too much money, they will do something about it.
|
ARGH69
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 17:35:00 -
[45]
the fix is simple. they need to deploy the quad core xeon servers. i remember when they upgraded to the current dual core AMD blade servers and the lag was "fixed". now the lag is as bad as it was right before the previous server hardware upgrade. the hardware upgrade lasted one year before lag started rearing it's ugly head again.
instead of sitting on the profits, ccp needs to upgrade the server hardware every year at the current pace of game population expansion. the game mechanics does not allow any other solution.
|
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 17:42:00 -
[46]
Originally by: ARGH69
the fix is simple. they need to deploy the quad core xeon servers. i remember when they upgraded to the current dual core AMD blade servers and the lag was "fixed". now the lag is as bad as it was right before the previous server hardware upgrade. the hardware upgrade lasted one year before lag started rearing it's ugly head again.
instead of sitting on the profits, ccp needs to upgrade the server hardware every year at the current pace of game population expansion. the game mechanics does not allow any other solution.
How would that help? Only one core could run a system at any one time...
----------------
Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!) |
Spurty
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 17:54:00 -
[47]
Remove Local, Remove overview, Remove Drones and remove the ability to set 'standings' with people.
This will make blobbers lose out to smaller gangs of tighter packed 'rat packs'.
Having to select a ship to fire on via the front end rather than the overview will make being part of a gang of 400 people I can't tell from the enemy so frustrating no one will want to do it. Anyone that tries it will be punished by sneaky people.
Lag will subside, confusion will reign.
Seriously though, the game mechanics are setup to make being part of a blob simple to manage. Nothing happening as far as I can see to quell the issue.
Drones mean that one ship sends out 6 ships worth of data (just make all 5/4/3/2 drones 1 entity, at least on the test server to see how much traffic it frees up).
I don't believe the CCP servers are weak in the least.
Oh and Windows 2008 advertises itself as having an optimized TCP stack woah woah woah!
I wish I could do more for CCP with resolving the 'spacial distortions' than throw random suggestions into the forums and never know if they are read by CCP or entertained by the Devs that work on optimization 
--
Two cannibals eating a clown. One says to the other "Does this taste funny to you?" |
Dimitry Kalashnikov
The Black Fleet
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 18:04:00 -
[48]
Has anyone really stopped and looked at this constant complaint that has been brought up numerous times? I personally think this very concept is ridiculous.
Here let me put it in different words with the same meaning:
"Dammit CCP we tried to crap a huge amount of ships into this tiny little node and it crashed!"
Heres another one:
"Excuse me, I bought this jar here yesterday and I tried to put my car in it but it won't fit! What kind of a company are you?"
Yet another one:
Black man vs Asian chick
I mean jeez people, if the shoe doesn't fit THEN DO NOT WEAR IT!
==============================================
The thousand ships of the Black Fleet Corporation descent upon you! Our Void L will blot out the sun! |
Angri Bob2
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 18:25:00 -
[49]
+1 to the thread, I agree, if game mechanics allows something - then technical capacity should also be sufficient to sustain all possible game variations which includes big number of ships. On the other hand I do agree that CCP was not meant to be building platform which will sustain infinite number of ships, there should be certain margin, within which lag will be tolerated. What I mean by this is that I agree that lag is unavoidable, however the system should be designed in a particular way so that ANY REASONABLY BIG number of ships in 1 location will work ok.
I think in that very good primer is WOW again. For that period of couple of years whihc I played warcraft, I experienced severe lag only once, that was extraordinary event, during opening of Ahq-Quiraj gates.
The conclusion is such, that when making these kind of requests we should always take into account economics of these kind of games. Yes indeed it is not possible to make a system whereby an infinite number of ships would be without lag as it will require an infinite amount of money to buy infinite amount of servers. On the legal side of thinks I doubt there is any significant come back to CCP, however in my view it is more on the lines of CCP's RESPECT towards its players.
Blizzard's WOW has considerably different game mechanics, yet very similar economics - and still somehow (duh) Blizzard is capable of operating its servers within a tolerable lag margin implied by game mechanics. The fact that CCP is not able to operate its servers within a tolerable lag margin implied by game mechanics simply means a disrespect to fellow players. It appears to me that they simply do not really care as long as people give them money (whihc is a valid point of view from economics side of things, however I would feel really bad about interacting with this kind of company).
P.s. I forsee a huge outcry here of somewhat brain absent part of Eve comunity that dislikes Wow, that is why in post-scriptum I would like to re-iterate the following phrase - [capable of operating its servers within a TOLERABLE LAG MARGIN IMPLIED BY GAME MECHANICS]. The point is that if you are one of those brain absent Eve comunity members I strongly suggest you think about this phrase as long as possible, until you actually understand that within the category which this sentece implies comparability of WoW and Eve is perfectly feasible.
|
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 18:37:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Angri Bob2
Blizzard's WOW has considerably different game mechanics, yet very similar economics - and still somehow (duh) Blizzard is capable of operating its servers within a tolerable lag margin implied by game mechanics. The fact that CCP is not able to operate its servers within a tolerable lag margin implied by game mechanics simply means a disrespect to fellow players. It appears to me that they simply do not really care as long as people give them money (whihc is a valid point of view from economics side of things, however I would feel really bad about interacting with this kind of company).
Without debating any of the merits or becoming involved in the standard 'OMG WOW SUX!' type debates, WoW has a very easy way out when it comes to server-side lag.
I believe that the average WoW server can handle about 5 thousand people on it at any one time and about 50-100 players in a single location (location is defined loosely here, as I'm not especially familiar with how their server mechanics work. Any potentially crowded location in WoW (towns, cities, etc) is designed so that there is not enough physical space to fit more than a hundred people in - i.e. the rooms aren't quite big enough, the streets just a bit too narrow, etc. Though I've heard of lots of lag around things like the auction houses or mailbox thingies.
When overall server lag becomes an issue, Blizzard doesn't have to worry at all - they just plop down another server and give it a random, fantasy-sounding name (Steeltooth, Grinning Demon, Epicface, whatever). People will flee the lag and join the new server until thing balance out, and all is right with the world. I think that Blizzard has something like 200 different shards, though I don't recall where I got that number.
I think that based on how often the developers interact with the community that CCP cares. However it's hard to see what they're doing to alleviate the issue without actually being inside the company - after all, they've been working on the Trinity graphics for the better part of a year but it wasn't until the final two months that we saw any of the progress they've made.
----------------
Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!) |
Angri Bob2
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 18:49:00 -
[51]
I do not entirelly agree with the argument, I will explain why, but slightly later , kinda tired at the moment and I don't think its the most important point. The most imporatant point is actually this, read my lips 'I do not care'. Blizzard does something, whatever it is they are doing I don't really care but it works, CCP does something whatever it is they are doin and it doesn't work - that's it. The reason being why I dont care is because I am a customer, and I SHOULD NOT care in principle. My ONLY function as a customer is to pay money and recieve product (that makes it 2 functions lol, but nvm), that is it !!! I SHOULD NOT be engaging in all those sorts of complicated discussions about how to improve the game, I am not payed for that, in fact Im not payed AT ALL, Im the one who is paying money here and I'm the one who is trying to improve the game.
Lol ?
|
Agent Li
Caldari
Galactic Defence Consortium
BLACKHAWK FEDERATION
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 18:51:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Angri Bob2
I do not entirelly agree with the argument, I will explain why, but slightly later , kinda tired at the moment and I don't think its the most important point. The most imporatant point is actually this, read my lips 'I do not care'. Blizzard does something, whatever it is they are doing I don't really care but it works, CCP does something whatever it is they are doin and it doesn't work - that's it. The reason being why I dont care is because I am a customer, and I SHOULD NOT care in principle. My ONLY function as a customer is to pay money and recieve product (that makes it 2 functions lol, but nvm), that is it !!! I SHOULD NOT be engaging in all those sorts of complicated discussions about how to improve the game, I am not payed for that, in fact Im not payed AT ALL, Im the one who is paying money here and I'm the one who is trying to improve the game.
Lol ?
F**k sharding. Sharding is what makes WoW so lame. No sharding is what makes Eve great.
------------------
Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire. |
Wreth Saran
Caldari
Phantom Stallion Security Forces
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 18:53:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Wreth Saran on 12/02/2008 18:54:00
Now I have to admit, I like this game, but I hardly ever take part in huge battles and I too am experiencing annoying freezes when before there weren't. Both of the sides here clearly have given some rather lame handed responses, let's not turn this into a fanboi war here and just look at the situation, I myself have submitted a petition about this because I'm actually experiencing these kind of freezes as well though there hasn't been a reply yet, it seems to happen most often when I begin warping or when I begin jumping through a stargate and in some cases this has quite often happened in areas where there are hardly any people as well.
I WANT EVE Online to have as many updates it can get I WANT there to be ambulation and more graphics updates, but what I don't want is for CCP to over extend themselves so much that their server is unable to handle it all, I would also like to point out to those saying 'don't fleet capital ship blob' is that EVE Online was meant to be ABOUT huge fleet battles, how can they have huge fleet battles if the server can't even handle that many players connected at once? I just think about the situation for a moment and look at what's happening before you go off flaming each other.
|
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 18:54:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Angri Bob2
I do not entirelly agree with the argument, I will explain why, but slightly later , kinda tired at the moment and I don't think its the most important point. The most imporatant point is actually this, read my lips 'I do not care'. Blizzard does something, whatever it is they are doing I don't really care but it works, CCP does something whatever it is they are doin and it doesn't work - that's it. The reason being why I dont care is because I am a customer, and I SHOULD NOT care in principle. My ONLY function as a customer is to pay money and recieve product (that makes it 2 functions lol, but nvm), that is it !!! I SHOULD NOT be engaging in all those sorts of complicated discussions about how to improve the game, I am not payed for that, in fact Im not payed AT ALL, Im the one who is paying money here and I'm the one who is trying to improve the game.
Lol ?
True, but this isn't a matter of just throwing money or code at it. It's not that CCP is too lazy to do it, it's just that doing so is really cutting-edge research and requires a lot of time and effort to complete. Remember that CCP is building one of the largest supercomputers in Europe for exactly this purpose with IBM. They can't just plop down another server.
----------------
Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!) |
Angri Bob2
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 18:55:00 -
[55]
Ok, Im sorry all this Wow thing sounds like an advert and I did not mean too. All I'm saying is that there are system out there which are incredibly similar in nature, however people who run those system somewho do not meet same problems as CCP guys.
|
Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 18:59:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Angri Bob2
I do not entirelly agree with the argument, I will explain why, but slightly later , kinda tired at the moment and I don't think its the most important point. The most imporatant point is actually this, read my lips 'I do not care'. Blizzard does something, whatever it is they are doing I don't really care but it works, CCP does something whatever it is they are doin and it doesn't work - that's it. The reason being why I dont care is because I am a customer, and I SHOULD NOT care in principle. My ONLY function as a customer is to pay money and recieve product (that makes it 2 functions lol, but nvm), that is it !!! I SHOULD NOT be engaging in all those sorts of complicated discussions about how to improve the game, I am not payed for that, in fact Im not payed AT ALL, Im the one who is paying money here and I'm the one who is trying to improve the game.
Lol ?
If you don't care, then leave. If you don't care, why even post here?
That being said, if you're going to back up a way of doing things, you kind of need to know the mechanics behind it. You need to know that WoW works on shards, and the players on one shard cannot interact with the players on another. That's not Eve and never will be. If it was Eve, you would have the BoB fleet getting together on one shard, and the Goon fleet on another. They'll both come to the same system, but neither will see the other there. If Eve shards like Wow, Eve dies.
And.... if you like Wow so much, go there. Fancy caps doesn't make your point any more valid than it already isn't. Yes, you would need to have some understanding of the mechanics behind it to discuss it, because otherwise you have absolutely no idea what you are asking for and you would not be improving the game at all.
My sig taken from this site. [IMAGE REMOVED] |
Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:00:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Angri Bob2
Ok, Im sorry all this Wow thing sounds like an advert and I did not mean too. All I'm saying is that there are system out there which are incredibly similar in nature, however people who run those system somewho do not meet same problems as CCP guys.
And he explained why and what it would do for the game of Eve, how it would ruin it, so why do you want to use it as an example?
My sig taken from this site. [IMAGE REMOVED] |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:01:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Matrixcvd
Originally by: Riho
they are constantly upgrading servers.. but the lag thing and node crash will never go away.
wanna know why ?? because atm you cant have a 300vs300 fight... when they make it possible.... one side thinks.... okay... we dont want to do it and bring 600vs300 and hello... node crash. ccp upgrades and now you can have 600vs600.... ppl bring 1000 on one side and voila... node crash. there will allways be alliances/coalitions who will try and do that.
If you didnt need 100's of people, organizing around both euro and US timezones, and had serious options in terms of hurting people's POS's making money, POS's holding SOV, then these fleet fights wouldnt happen as often or would not be as necessary. If HP was reduced, so that small groups can go in and disable services/assets, combat would be spread out among TZ's but since you really need 100+ BS/Support, to drop cyno jammers, to bring in dreads to shoot harderned large towers which can take hours, these game mechanics require blobing, they require large numbers of people, which in turn brings out larger numbers of defenders.
The HP of station services, WHICH WERE CONCEIVED TO DELIEVER SMALL GANG WARFARE, were given way too much HP.
So a stop-gap fix would be to lower the HP of POS's, anchorables, Station services. Whatever is quick to take down can be repped back in as quickly
Re: station services. Rather than one monolithic station service with eleventy-twelve billion jillion HP that works at 100% or not at all, a much better model would be: degradable services. eg: knock 5% off the refinery HP, reduce refinery efficiency by 5%. Medical services would have a delay, say up to an hour at 1% HP (36 seconds delay per 1% damage done - which could make medical service a viable *tactical* target...), Factory takes longer to build and requires more minerals when damaged, etc., etc.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Devious Syn
StarHunt
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:01:00 -
[59]
Anyone ever notice there is NEVER a response from any CCP regarding this?
lmao they know its broken and probably laughing at us while collecting our money every month 
|
ARGH69
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:01:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: ARGH69
the fix is simple. they need to deploy the quad core xeon servers. i remember when they upgraded to the current dual core AMD blade servers and the lag was "fixed". now the lag is as bad as it was right before the previous server hardware upgrade. the hardware upgrade lasted one year before lag started rearing it's ugly head again.
instead of sitting on the profits, ccp needs to upgrade the server hardware every year at the current pace of game population expansion. the game mechanics does not allow any other solution.
How would that help? Only one core could run a system at any one time...
what do you mean how would that help?.....
how did going from single core to dual core help when they upgraded the servers 2 years ago?.....
it's not our job to find out what they did or how their game is coded. we only want a lag-free game experience. the only way this is achievable is through server hardware upgrades like history has shown.
people need to stop suggesting altered game mechanics! the game was designed to be open-ended with one persistant world. this requires the best hardware resources, not reduction of server side tasks to combat excessive server load. this whole need for speed initiative has turned into the need for speed bumps instead with the elimination of alot of features that were once standard. deletion of belts in jita and other places? re-routing of nearby jita systems? wallet delayed transactions? can't scan this, can't scan that anymore?.....what worthless initiative this has turned out to be because lag is as bad as ever, and even worse.
when you cannot log in for an hour because of lag and the inability to support fleet fights anymore, and at the current server state, the consumer is not getting the full experience that he or she is paying for.
|
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:10:00 -
[61]
Originally by: ARGH69
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: ARGH69
the fix is simple. they need to deploy the quad core xeon servers. i remember when they upgraded to the current dual core AMD blade servers and the lag was "fixed". now the lag is as bad as it was right before the previous server hardware upgrade. the hardware upgrade lasted one year before lag started rearing it's ugly head again.
instead of sitting on the profits, ccp needs to upgrade the server hardware every year at the current pace of game population expansion. the game mechanics does not allow any other solution.
How would that help? Only one core could run a system at any one time...
what do you mean how would that help?.....
how did going from single core to dual core help when they upgraded the servers 2 years ago?.....
it's not our job to find out what they did or how their game is coded. we only want a lag-free game experience. the only way this is achievable is through server hardware upgrades like history has shown.
True, but the biggest problem is that a server node can only be run on a single core, and instead of the speed of a single core increasing based on Moore's Law (which CCP was counting on), they have increased by adding multiple cores, which CCP's server architecture isn't capable of taking advantage of yet. That's why they're working on using Infiniband.
Quote:
this whole need for speed initiative has turned into the need for speed bumps instead with the elimination of alot of features that were once standard. deletion of belts in jita and other places? re-routing of nearby jita systems? wallet delayed transactions? can't scan this, can't scan that anymore?.....what worthless initiative this has turned out to be because lag is as bad as ever, and even worse.
I agree, but how do you know that lag wouldn't be worse without the changes you mentioned?
----------------
Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!) |
Troyd23
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:13:00 -
[62]
Originally by: baltec1
People who whine and complain about laggy mega blobs need to give themselves a slap. Very few games will let 200 people fight it out without game stopping lag let alone 400-500.
Most of the lag is caused by crappy computers and bad connections on the players side. This is why I can wander around jita while others are crashing and getting stuck.
CCP have said they are working on it and no ammount of complaining and insults is going to make it go any faster.
I'm new...but ive always wondered what the big deal with jita was... i fly in.. fly around dock with a station, do my thing, undock and leave. Usually with little to no lag, minus the marke screen...that thing has a horrendus load time! The only real trouble I have is with the massive amount of people who are sitting just outside of the undock area.. Forcing me to manually fly out of their way in order to warpout. Otherwise i get stuck in one of those endless warp cycles where your ship just kinda bumps into things.
But on the Server lag issue as a whole, i think we should just wait for the infiniband to come online and then judge CCP's service. If they manage to significantly upgrade the amount each node can handle. Then well they deserve some credit, and less bashing.
|
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:16:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Troyd23
But on the Server lag issue as a whole, i think we should just wait for the infiniband to come online and then judge CCP's service. If they manage to significantly upgrade the amount each node can handle. Then well they deserve some credit, and less bashing.
If you tread through this forum's history you'll see people commenting on server upgrades before and their responses have been overwhelmingly positive. There was a time (before I joined EVE) that a battle with 50 people would lag as much as a battle with 400 people. And yet people constantly claim that "the lag has never gotten any better."
I think that some people just need something to complain about and don't really care if their issue has an explanation that doesn't line up with their disposition to blame everything on authority (the authority being CCP in this case). I just ignore them when I can.
----------------
Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!) |
Daelin Blackleaf
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:17:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Dristra
Originally by: Anna Avarice
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Yes, and if a node could support 2500 players lag free, 5500 would try to join
This.
35,000 players on-line. Approximately 80% of them being in empire leaves around 7000 players in 0.0. If a node could support 2500 players then you'd need to bring almost half of the 0.0 population to a single node to make it a problem. If a node could support 1000 players I still doubt we'd surpass it any time in the next few years, 0.0 simply doesn't have the manpower.
I'm no technical guru, I just wanted to point out the minor detail that the residents of 0.0 are not infinite and in theory it would be feasible to just throw hardware at it. Though of course a better and likely cheaper option would be to have the system assign resources based on how many pilots are in a given area.
|
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:20:00 -
[65]
I wunder, why is it not posible to put 1 server for 1 system? That would fix lag for all, wuoldn't it? Servers is not veri expensive, isn't it?
---------
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment
-KB- |
Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:33:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I wunder, why is it not posible to put 1 server for 1 system? That would fix lag for all, wuoldn't it? Servers is not veri expensive, isn't it?
Yes, you are talking about expensive hardware. I don't know the real numbers, but it's something like going from 250 servers to 5000 servers. Think about it.
My sig taken from this site. [IMAGE REMOVED] |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:34:00 -
[67]
But 5000 servers is liek less than a year's porfit ...
and customers is satify too ...
---------
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment
-KB- |
ARGH69
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:38:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: ARGH69
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: ARGH69
the fix is simple. they need to deploy the quad core xeon servers. i remember when they upgraded to the current dual core AMD blade servers and the lag was "fixed". now the lag is as bad as it was right before the previous server hardware upgrade. the hardware upgrade lasted one year before lag started rearing it's ugly head again.
instead of sitting on the profits, ccp needs to upgrade the server hardware every year at the current pace of game population expansion. the game mechanics does not allow any other solution.
How would that help? Only one core could run a system at any one time...
what do you mean how would that help?.....
how did going from single core to dual core help when they upgraded the servers 2 years ago?.....
it's not our job to find out what they did or how their game is coded. we only want a lag-free game experience. the only way this is achievable is through server hardware upgrades like history has shown.
True, but the biggest problem is that a server node can only be run on a single core, and instead of the speed of a single core increasing based on Moore's Law (which CCP was counting on), they have increased by adding multiple cores, which CCP's server architecture isn't capable of taking advantage of yet. That's why they're working on using Infiniband.
Quote:
this whole need for speed initiative has turned into the need for speed bumps instead with the elimination of alot of features that were once standard. deletion of belts in jita and other places? re-routing of nearby jita systems? wallet delayed transactions? can't scan this, can't scan that anymore?.....what worthless initiative this has turned out to be because lag is as bad as ever, and even worse.
I agree, but how do you know that lag wouldn't be worse without the changes you mentioned?
then they need to fix this problem by having nodes that can operate on multiple cores. why fight the progression of hardware technology? they should be adapting to fit with it. the future is multicore application support whether they like it or not.
instead of pulling out a magic wand from their a$$ and shoving it into ours they should get their so-very-smart coders working on optimizing their servers for multi-core support. this infiband or whatever it is sounds like empty promises. use the damn technology at your disposal already!
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:54:00 -
[69]
"instead of pulling out a magic wand from their a$$ and shoving it into ours they should get their so-very-smart coders working on optimizing their servers for multi-core support. this infiband or whatever it is sounds like empty promises. use the damn technology at your disposal already!"
This is not a trivial undertaking. It's a lot harder than just "set lag=0" or "set threads=many"
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:58:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
But 5000 servers is liek less than a year's porfit ...
and customers is satify too ...
lol, yer funny. You think CCP makes 5 Bil a year? We're talking dollars or Euros here, not ISK. Even then, you'd not be feeding any of the developers and their families, or paying their electric bill.
My sig taken from this site. [IMAGE REMOVED] |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 20:08:00 -
[71]
Originally by: ARGH69
then they need to fix this problem by having nodes that can operate on multiple cores. why fight the progression of hardware technology? they should be adapting to fit with it. the future is multicore application support whether they like it or not.
instead of pulling out a magic wand from their a$$ and shoving it into ours they should get their so-very-smart coders working on optimizing their servers for multi-core support. this infiband or whatever it is sounds like empty promises. use the damn technology at your disposal already!
I really don't understand what you're talking about - you're suggesting that CCP won't upgrade their hardware or optimize their code, just remove features. CCP is already doing the things that you're talking about. But it takes longer than a month.
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Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!) |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.02.12 20:26:00 -
[72]
Angel ...
but ...
CCP eans like 3M a month ...
and 5000 new servers is liked 5M a oder ...
They still like making porfit ...
and it do not look like expansive to buy ... 
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
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Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.12 20:34:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Angel DeMorphis on 12/02/2008 20:35:29
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Angel ...
but ...
CCP eans like 3M a month ...
and 5000 new servers is liked 5M a oder ...
They still like making porfit ...
and it do not look like expansive to buy ...
Try something on the order of 1 Million for a supercomputer, and you'll be closer to the truth. These things do cost money. 1 Mil * 5,000 = 5 Bil. And just because CCP pulls in 3 Mil a month, doesn't mean that's how much extra they have. That goes to the pay our dear developers and GMs, as well as pay for electricity for their offices/server rooms.
But don't believe me, see it from a Devs mouth: Linkage
EDIT: Also, earlier in the same thread: Linkage
My sig taken from this site. [IMAGE REMOVED] |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.02.12 20:35:00 -
[74]
1M for one server? 
Is is rael? ...
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
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Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.12 20:38:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
1M for one server?
Is is rael? ...
I was throwing a number out there, from what I've seen on the internet, and my experience at my own job. But yes, this isn't a souped-up personal computer we're talking about.
My sig taken from this site. [IMAGE REMOVED] |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.02.12 20:42:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 12/02/2008 20:43:41
and 5000M for 5000 servers ...
that is liek a lot of cash ...
Mien PC costs like 1500 dolar ... and lol, it is like only 0.2% of a CCP server ...
I feel so spesial that CCP do care about this game. They give us veri expansive and good hardware for our game. I raelly love this game and will never leave it.  
Maby I should go open a shop and build servers for CCP at a cheap prize. Everyone will be happy.
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment
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Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 20:47:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Mien PC costs like 1500 dolar ... and lol, it is like only 0.2% of a CCP server ...
Like I said, your PC is very cheap in comparison, lol. Not always a million (though the new IBM Gene, or whatever, is something like 1.5 Mil), but when I saw what my company was selling servers for (I've worked at two companies that sold servers) my eyes bugged and I figured they could afford to keep me around for a while longer (though that wasn't the truth :P).
My sig taken from this site. [IMAGE REMOVED] |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.02.12 20:52:00 -
[78]
Still their one servers is like a few times more expansive than my PC and I really feel like I am in a very well acred game because CCP invest in very good servers.
I am glad that I am an Eve palyer. I am very happy. 
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Recruitment
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Darek Castigatus
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Posted - 2008.02.12 21:10:00 -
[79]
funny thing that never seems to get considered by people who whine about stuff like Blobbing causing node crashes - A LARGE MAJORITY OF THE PLAYER BASE DOESNT DO THIS SORT OF STUFF. Biggest fight ive ever been in had around 15 people in it and that was fine. You really want to blame someone blame BoB for ****ing off enough of EVE that they have 300-400 size fleets battering their territory 23/7.
Ok maybe thats an oversimplification but CCP in my eyes are doing their absolute best to keep up with a situation which has gotten somewhat out of control.
Also as many people have already said server upgrades are freakin expensive and take a ****load of time to put into place.
I'd say more but i cant be arsed
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000Hunter000
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.02.12 21:22:00 -
[80]
Yeah blame BoB!!! OR GOONS!! HELL BLAME EM BOTH!!!
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! |
7shining7one7
Quafe Paladins
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Posted - 2008.02.12 22:33:00 -
[81]
to think that ccp is not doing the very best they can to make the game great is ridiculous.
ofcourse they are, but it's not that easy, you don't just "fix" it like snapping your fingers and then it's done.
if you think you can do it so much better, then please make an eve type game, i'm quite sure that if it was better you wouldn't have problems getting a player base!
eve is quite a great game and sometimes i think ppl take for granted just how many toys ccp has actually given us to play with.
the game is HUGE, there's a lot of data going around all the time, and it's not just updating ship positions and such. it's much more than that.
i think in the future that goal with much less lag will be achieved, but for now, they are doing the best they can with what they got, give them a break.. it's not like the game is completely unplayable.
and again i say, if you think you can do it much better, then make another game or apply for a job at ccp and "show them how big noobs they are at developing games". please do if you are so f'ing good..
i'm sure nobody would complain either if you "fixed" eve and you'd get a substantial salary if you could pull it off i can guarantee you that rofl
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F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Valainaloce
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Posted - 2008.02.13 07:19:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: ARGH69
the fix is simple. they need to deploy the quad core xeon servers. i remember when they upgraded to the current dual core AMD blade servers and the lag was "fixed". now the lag is as bad as it was right before the previous server hardware upgrade. the hardware upgrade lasted one year before lag started rearing it's ugly head again.
instead of sitting on the profits, ccp needs to upgrade the server hardware every year at the current pace of game population expansion. the game mechanics does not allow any other solution.
How would that help? Only one core could run a system at any one time...
Given the way the hardware works now, if they kept the same number of servers and doubled the cores on them, then most nodes would have fewer systems in them. So this would be a good upgrade for the average user. For fleet fights, Jita, and other major systems, nothing would change.
Still it would be a general improvement, just not the most desirable one.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
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tai shang
Dominus Imperium
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Posted - 2008.02.13 10:36:00 -
[83]
i too have been having problems with the clien crashing. Just now, it crashed on me twice within 2 minutes, and did the same earlier today as well. I came to check the forums to see if there was any helpfull information on whats been going on lately, as i have been hearing about this problem a lot with other players.
But instead I find a winy little girl complaining that the server crashed and others complaining that the servers need upgrades and screw ambulation, etc. ect...
So let me ask a honest question, and put urself in the scenario: u are in charge of fleet ops for your corp/alliance. u know that the servers will crash when 300+ people log in to one system. so you bring as many people to the fight as possible, trying to push the limit and put numbers on your side. then one day, CCP uprgades the servers, and now the limit is 400+. What are you going to do now? If YOU dont bring more people, your opponent WILL. BASIC large scale combat tactics. When the limit is raised, it WILL be tested. The only way to solve this problem is to stop blobbing. Even if CCP puts a limit on the size of a fleet, it will do no good because then players will just make multiple fleets. The only thing that could be done (or the only thing i can think of off hand), would be to put a limit on the amount of people that can enter one system at any given time. Like how public pools have a maximum capacity limit. But even then, you would just see hundreds of players in neighboring systems waiting for their turn in the que to enter the system, which would lag out the entire cluster. SO even then, problem not solved.
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Kur'Dekaija
Atomic Heroes
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.13 13:10:00 -
[84]
dunno why ppl are whining, they are trying to make a the most powerful supercomputer in Europe with help from IBM and Microsoft... that ain't enough??
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