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Mane Frehm
The Executioners
Capital Punishment.
7
   |
Posted - 2012.02.15 17:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
We have just confirmed that there was an unannounced change in Crucible to the mechanism for receiving security status increases when killing rats. Previously, all those who damaged the rat received the full secuirty status increase, whereas now only the player who "laid the final blow" receives the security status increase.
While this may seem like a small change to many it is a concern as:
a) this change was not announced (CCP - we thought you had stopped doing that)
b) grinding security status is slow and painful at the best of times; this change makes corporate roams through 0.0 to grind security status and kill the unwary much less fruitful
This is not an issue for those who want to go full pirate (-5.0 and beyond), but for those of us who are trying to keep our security status up it is a problem.
I was advised by a GM to post in this forum (seems odd as this isn't so much a suggestion as a request to fix what was changed), but so be it.
|
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 18:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you want to kill people in policed space you should expect to be an outlaw. Personally I think this is a good change. If you want to kill people without losing sec status go to space which isn't policed by CONCORD. If you don't care about being an outlaw/pirate keep on killing people in policed space. Simples!
|
Karlhockey Forte
Advent Chaos Theory
KRYSIS.
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 18:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Have you reported this as a bug or was it confirmed by a GM/Dev to be intended? |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
1059
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 18:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:If you want to kill people in policed space you should expect to be an outlaw. Personally I think this is a good change. If you want to kill people without losing sec status go to space which isn't policed by CONCORD. If you don't care about being an outlaw/pirate keep on killing people in policed space. Simples!
Exactly. In fact...make grinding faction MUCH harder so piracy is no longer an easy profession.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Cassius Longinus
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
11
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 19:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
What a terrible change in mechanics. Please unnerf this CCP.
(sec status has always been one of the worst aspects of the game, the last thing you want to do is make it worse). |
Yumi Sagara
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 19:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
If this is legit then I love this change, and love CCP for doing it. Sec status actually means something, now. |
Bacchanalian
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
27
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 19:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Karlhockey Forte wrote:Have you reported this as a bug or was it confirmed by a GM/Dev to be intended?
According to his post on FHC, yes, he reported it and a GM confirmed it was changed on the back-end but could not comment on whether it was intentional or not.
http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?5658-Change-in-Security-Status-Mechanism-Ratting
I posted my thoughts there. Most of them aren't in language appropriate for the EVE forums. But they boil down to what Cass said--the sec status mechanics are ridiculous and probably the one aspect of EVE that reminds me of WoW--but in WoW at least the PvE was mildly interesting. This nerf is just making a terrible mechanic even worse. As I stated there, there needs to be some sort of change to the mechanic (or addition) such that there are other less ridiculous avenues to fixing sec status, including something that seems like it would fit the lore of EVE to a "t"--bribery. Make every level of Fast Talk allow you to exchange isk bribes to CONCORD for sec. Hell, just let it convert my loltastic bounties from rat killing into CONCORD bribes. Let me pay AURUM for sec stauts. SOMETHING to prevent my having to decide between a JF alt, grinding in a way that makes WoW look like something I might be interested in taking back up, or simply reducing the amount of time I spend playing EVE. |
Funkert
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 20:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Tchulen wrote:If you want to kill people in policed space you should expect to be an outlaw. Personally I think this is a good change. If you want to kill people without losing sec status go to space which isn't policed by CONCORD. If you don't care about being an outlaw/pirate keep on killing people in policed space. Simples!
Exactly. In fact...make grinding faction MUCH harder so piracy is no longer an easy profession.
Yumi Sagara wrote:If this is legit then I love this change, and love CCP for doing it. Sec status actually means something, now.
Either you don't understand what is being said in the OP or you are so full of blind hate for any form of pirate that you don't care* Also Yumi your post is the worst, as sec still means the same damn thing and still has the same 'value' .
This IS NOT about the time you have to spend ratting sec status
This IS NOT about the sec status hit you receive for committing a crime
This IS NOT about the amount of rats you have to kill to get your sec status back up
The problem described in the OP is simply about the fact that if 2 people shoot the same NPC, only 1 gets a security status increase.
The only thing this does is taking a possible group activity (sec ratting) and turning it into something that can only be done solo.
If you do it by yourself, like most people do, NOTHING has changed.
this is about a very minute change that was never announced and will just make EVE that tiny little bit more of a singleplayer game.
*this won't even matter to the people that i presume hurt you the most, perma -10's and suicide gankers that use throwaway alts.
also, id say lowsec isnt really 'policed space', but as i said thats not even what this topic is about |
RuriHoshino
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 20:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Exactly. In fact...make grinding faction MUCH harder so piracy is no longer an easy profession.
Vertisce Soritenshi's signature wrote:EvE is not about PvP. EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP! Open the door!!!
There literally aren't enough facepalms in the universe. You consent to PvP the second you log on no matter where you are in space. This concept is what makes EvE interesting and unique and has been affirmed countless times by the developers. The security status mechanic doesn't prevent people from bringing PvP to all corners of EvE, it just makes it more inconvenient. If you really desire total safety from other players, there are many other games on the market.
If you're going to make changes to this system, CCP, please do it out in the open rather than squeezing it into a patch unannounced. This doesn't just affect pirates, but anyone who roams through lowsec (which is in need of attention all on it's own). |
NiGhTTraX
Operational Urban Zion Order
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
23
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 00:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:In fact...make grinding faction MUCH harder so piracy is no longer an easy profession.
Sure, just make mining, trading, exploring, manufacturing, PvE and other EVE professions equally as hard. |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
Late Night Alliance
158
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 00:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
If this is true its a huge pile of steaming BULL by CCP again.
They took something that really was the worst grind in EvE and made it worse to the 10th degree.
This needs to at least be fixed CCP this is not cool at all.
Worst of all they never gave us a chance to talk about it or get our thoughts as players on it. Yet again the crap all over the players.
This is just some more backhanded punishment without communication with the players again.
Heck we used to run corp OPs to grind up sec. Thanks for crapping on that being something we can do now CCP. |
Lexa Hellfury
Incura
32
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 03:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Terrible terrible change. |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
Late Night Alliance
159
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 04:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP sneaking it in without player feedback is what pissed me off the most about this honestly. |
foxnod
BOAE INC
GIANTSBANE.
36
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 04:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
The carebears still don't get it. Every time CCP tries to nerf us (the real EVE players), it just motivates us to go gank carebears even more. Just for this change, I think I'll head into empire and gank another miner. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
1179
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 05:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
This is a good first step.
Now all CCP have to do is change concord to sue the outside of wardec jihaddist gankers in hisec space for the isk value of any ganks they made and give that over to the victim.
Victims dont lose any isk (save their cargo), gankers get their lol ganks and gaina much needed isk sink cuz lets face it, they haz way too much isk to begin with if all they care to do is throw it away on kills, carebears will be more at ease, gankers will be mad. More Pvp encouraged because now carebears won't care if they lose ships in hisec and gankers cannot make isk from lol ganks anymore.
Everybody wins! |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
1179
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 05:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Funkert wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Tchulen wrote:If you want to kill people in policed space you should expect to be an outlaw. Personally I think this is a good change. If you want to kill people without losing sec status go to space which isn't policed by CONCORD. If you don't care about being an outlaw/pirate keep on killing people in policed space. Simples!
Exactly. In fact...make grinding faction MUCH harder so piracy is no longer an easy profession. Yumi Sagara wrote:If this is legit then I love this change, and love CCP for doing it. Sec status actually means something, now. Either you don't understand what is being said in the OP or you are so full of blind hate for any form of pirate that you don't care* Also Yumi your post is the worst, as sec still means the same damn thing and still has the same 'value' . This IS NOT about the time you have to spend ratting sec status This IS NOT about the sec status hit you receive for committing a crime This IS NOT about the amount of rats you have to kill to get your sec status back up The problem described in the OP is simply about the fact that if 2 people shoot the same NPC, only 1 gets a security status increase. The only thing this does is taking a possible group activity (sec ratting) and turning it into something that can only be done solo. If you do it by yourself, like most people do, NOTHING has changed. this is about a very minute change that was never announced and will just make EVE that tiny little bit more of a singleplayer game. *this won't even matter to the people that i presume hurt you the most, perma -10's and suicide gankers that use throwaway alts. also, id say lowsec isnt really 'policed space', but as i said thats not even what this topic is about
You know, if 2 hulks mine the same roid and its on its last cycle worth of ore, only 1 hulk gets the load.
Now rat based sec grinding is working as intended. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
78
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 05:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Funkert wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Tchulen wrote:If you want to kill people in policed space you should expect to be an outlaw. Personally I think this is a good change. If you want to kill people without losing sec status go to space which isn't policed by CONCORD. If you don't care about being an outlaw/pirate keep on killing people in policed space. Simples!
Exactly. In fact...make grinding faction MUCH harder so piracy is no longer an easy profession. Yumi Sagara wrote:If this is legit then I love this change, and love CCP for doing it. Sec status actually means something, now. Either you don't understand what is being said in the OP or you are so full of blind hate for any form of pirate that you don't care* Also Yumi your post is the worst, as sec still means the same damn thing and still has the same 'value' . This IS NOT about the time you have to spend ratting sec status This IS NOT about the sec status hit you receive for committing a crime This IS NOT about the amount of rats you have to kill to get your sec status back up The problem described in the OP is simply about the fact that if 2 people shoot the same NPC, only 1 gets a security status increase. The only thing this does is taking a possible group activity (sec ratting) and turning it into something that can only be done solo. If you do it by yourself, like most people do, NOTHING has changed. this is about a very minute change that was never announced and will just make EVE that tiny little bit more of a singleplayer game. *this won't even matter to the people that i presume hurt you the most, perma -10's and suicide gankers that use throwaway alts. also, id say lowsec isnt really 'policed space', but as i said thats not even what this topic is about You know, if 2 hulks mine the same roid and its on its last cycle worth of ore, only 1 hulk gets the load. Now rat based sec grinding is working as intended.
You're a moron. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
471
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 07:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Flipping awesome! Sec grind is not prevented, its just more difficult now to work with someone and nothing really changes. Now CCP just needs to change sec status to go deeper and beyond -10 as well as change other mechanics to make it even harsher. Market taxes increase, clone update costs tripple, NPC shoots you at gates while you afk in a pod through highsec (cause it is a harsh universe and you needed to be reminded of that  ). Yeah, sec status loss should mean something to you and be a real hindrance if you go to far down the rabbit hole  .
This change is something that lets you the player, determine how much you are willing to risk and self regulate your behavior (think Palov and his dogs, in EVE there just wasn't enough punishment to make you not drool over random asshattery behavior as you gank hulks all day to pad your game score). Instead of haha I just destroyed 6 hulks this last hour as you toss ships away like trash, its "FUNK ME!" as you relize "Is it really worthwile to gank/pod this mofo because the grind to get back up - I have to allocate extra hours to do it solo  ". |
Funkert
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 07:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:You know, if 2 hulks mine the same roid and its on its last cycle worth of ore, only 1 hulk gets the load.
Now rat based sec grinding is working as intended.
and if 2 people shoot the same rat each only gets half the bounty and it only drops loot once too.
Look, sorry to burst your bubble, but like I said this will not make it any harder for anyone rat sec/gank.
It will just turn us into even more antisocial bastards! Is that what you really want?  |
Mike Whiite
Progressive State
15
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 08:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
So breaking the law has drawbacks???
Hare dare they. Bastards!!!! |
Tinu Moorhsum
Royal Scientific Research Enterprise
26
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 11:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote:So breaking the law has drawbacks???
Hare dare they. Bastards!!!!
Everyone who attacks a carebear in high/low-sec gets a sec status hit. It only seems reasonable that everyone who helps kill a rat gets a sec status gain.
Fix pls.
T- |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions
Reckless Ambition
220
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 12:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:
You know, if 2 hulks mine the same roid and its on its last cycle worth of ore, only 1 hulk gets the load.
Now rat based sec grinding is working as intended.
Oh, for the love of.../o\
Stop posting?
Will you please,
Just.
Stop.
*******.
Posting.
Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM 7!
(Mittens, you may not want to admit it, but your day in the sun is over. Next!)
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
1061
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 13:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:
You know, if 2 hulks mine the same roid and its on its last cycle worth of ore, only 1 hulk gets the load.
Now rat based sec grinding is working as intended.
Oh, for the love of.../o\ Stop posting? Will you please, Just. Stop. *******. Posting.
Why? She actually has a brain and a thought process that makes sense. Unlike SOME people...
Poor little pirates can't grind faction as easy as they could yesterday.
RuriHoshino wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Exactly. In fact...make grinding faction MUCH harder so piracy is no longer an easy profession. Vertisce Soritenshi's signature wrote:EvE is not about PvP. EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP! Open the door!!! There literally aren't enough facepalms in the universe. You consent to PvP the second you log on no matter where you are in space. This concept is what makes EvE interesting and unique and has been affirmed countless times by the developers. The security status mechanic doesn't prevent people from bringing PvP to all corners of EvE, it just makes it more inconvenient. If you really desire total safety from other players, there are many other games on the market. If you're going to make changes to this system, CCP, please do it out in the open rather than squeezing it into a patch unannounced. This doesn't just affect pirates, but anyone who roams through lowsec (which is in need of attention all on it's own).
Yes...not enough facepalms. This has nothing to do with ones desire to PvP or not. This has to do with piracy as a profession being far too easy. You are a criminal. It should be far more difficult to be successful as a criminal than any other profession, but it isn't. I live in Nullsec and WH space...I PvP on a daily bases between all my characters. You are a fool to assume that I have any aversion to PvP just because I like a mechanic change that positively effects a single aspect of PvP.
CCP. Feel free to make changes to the game as you see fit. It is YOUR game after all. If you can see it in your heart of hearts to fix Lowsec, however, please do so.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
1181
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 17:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:
You know, if 2 hulks mine the same roid and its on its last cycle worth of ore, only 1 hulk gets the load.
Now rat based sec grinding is working as intended.
Oh, for the love of.../o\ Stop posting? Will you please, Just. Stop. *******. Posting.
No.
Can I haz your stuff?
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
You're a well liked moron.
Fixed it for you. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
13
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 17:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Funkert wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Tchulen wrote:If you want to kill people in policed space you should expect to be an outlaw. Personally I think this is a good change. If you want to kill people without losing sec status go to space which isn't policed by CONCORD. If you don't care about being an outlaw/pirate keep on killing people in policed space. Simples!
Exactly. In fact...make grinding faction MUCH harder so piracy is no longer an easy profession. Yumi Sagara wrote:If this is legit then I love this change, and love CCP for doing it. Sec status actually means something, now. Either you don't understand what is being said in the OP or you are so full of blind hate for any form of pirate that you don't care* Also Yumi your post is the worst, as sec still means the same damn thing and still has the same 'value' . This IS NOT about the time you have to spend ratting sec status This IS NOT about the sec status hit you receive for committing a crime This IS NOT about the amount of rats you have to kill to get your sec status back up The problem described in the OP is simply about the fact that if 2 people shoot the same NPC, only 1 gets a security status increase. The only thing this does is taking a possible group activity (sec ratting) and turning it into something that can only be done solo. If you do it by yourself, like most people do, NOTHING has changed. this is about a very minute change that was never announced and will just make EVE that tiny little bit more of a singleplayer game. *this won't even matter to the people that i presume hurt you the most, perma -10's and suicide gankers that use throwaway alts. also, id say lowsec isnt really 'policed space', but as i said thats not even what this topic is about
I don't hate pirates. There is no hate in my heart for anyone. I'm a carebear. We.... care.
However, this IS about the time you have to spend ratting sec status. I'm not entirely sure I agree with the implimentation as I think it would've been substantially better to merely split the sec status equally between the members of the fleet who's member struck the last blow but it really IS about the amount of time it takes to build your sec status back up.
This ISN'T about it affecting those who have perma -10. They are playing the game. They have decided to be pirates.
This IS about people trying to be law abiding citizens whilst murdering people. It makes sense that it's difficult and time consuming to "prove" that you've turned good.
As for low sec not being policed space please read up on lore. It is. It's just not enforced. Thus the sec status hit for killing people. |
Jisu Viscera
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 17:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:If you want to kill people in policed space you should expect to be an outlaw. Personally I think this is a good change. If you want to kill people without losing sec status go to space which isn't policed by CONCORD. If you don't care about being an outlaw/pirate keep on killing people in policed space. Simples!
I don't know much about this type of thing, but this is in line with my initial thought(s), and the above post, as well. Because you are even grinding the status to begin with means, to me, that you're abusing the system in a way to keep punishment from being meted out on you for the choices you choose to make in the game. So, in my opinion, this change was a good thing, because now it makes the repercussions for doing something illegal far more meaningful.
If you do something that is, otherwise, against the law, you should be punished for it, not have the opportunity to go to another system and easily kill a few NPC's with some friends to avoid it. It should be hard to gain back the trust you lost, because, in reality, it usually is. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
1181
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 17:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jisu Viscera wrote:Tchulen wrote:If you want to kill people in policed space you should expect to be an outlaw. Personally I think this is a good change. If you want to kill people without losing sec status go to space which isn't policed by CONCORD. If you don't care about being an outlaw/pirate keep on killing people in policed space. Simples! I don't know much about this type of thing, but this is in line with my initial thought(s). Because you are even grinding the status to begin with means, to me, that you're abusing the system in a way to keep punishment from being meted out on you for the choices you choose to make in the game. So, in my opinion, this change was a good thing, because now it makes the repercussions for doing something illegal far more meaningful. If you do something that is, otherwise, against the law, you should be punished for it, not have the opportunity to go to another system and easily kill a few NPC's with some friends to avoid it. It should be hard to gain back the trust you lost, because, in reality, it usually is.
I wanted to post something similar.
But you did a far superior job wording it.
+ 1
Maybe CCP should revamp sec grinding completely. Remove sec status gains from NPCs. Add them to the killing of other outlaws with negative sec status at a severely reduced rate. Force lolgankers to kill other lolgankers in lolspace over many months to earn their way back into hi-sec. |
Tinu Moorhsum
Royal Scientific Research Enterprise
27
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 17:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jisu Viscera wrote: So, in my opinion, this change was a good thing, because now it makes the repercussions for doing something illegal far more meaningful.
Meh. it just means you have to rat solo. No big deal.
The whole process of ratting back your sec status is one of the most boring things in eve if you ask me. I wish CCP would implement something for bounty hunting that killing someone with a lower sec status than yourself results in a sec status gain and that flying logistics would gain you "karma" that would raise sec status too.
As it is we're stuck with occasional bouts of mind-numbingly boring work so we can go back in high-sec and to kill more T1 easter-eggs ... er... haulers >:) On balance I'd say it's worth it :)
T- |
Jisu Viscera
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 17:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Maybe CCP should revamp sec grinding completely. Remove sec status gains from NPCs. Add them to the killing of other outlaws with negative sec status at a severely reduced rate. Force lolgankers to kill other lolgankers in lolspace over many months to earn their way back into hi-sec.
I agree with your sentiments, but lets not forget that this is a game - it should be fun, and some people have fun in different ways. While I think it should be difficult to raise your security status, such as removing the option completely from NPC's, I don't think it should be so murderously "un-fun" to drive away that particular playerbase; I like the idea, but not necessarily the time it would take to win yourself back into safe space.
Plus, there should also be other avenues that are less wallet-intensive, otherwise the majority of those players would quickly be poor and driven away... or maybe they would find it fun, who knows. At any rate, there should be a quick, possibly expensive, way, and then a slow, relatively cheap, way to balance it out. Some people just make poor decisions that they will eventually regret or decide was not what they really wanted. They should have a way out without breaking bank.
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:Jisu Viscera wrote: So, in my opinion, this change was a good thing, because now it makes the repercussions for doing something illegal far more meaningful.
Meh. it just means you have to rat solo. No big deal. The whole process of ratting back your sec status is one of the most boring things in eve if you ask me. I wish CCP would implement something for bounty hunting that killing someone with a lower sec status than yourself results in a sec status gain and that flying logistics would gain you "karma" that would raise sec status too. As it is we're stuck with occasional bouts of mind-numbingly boring work so we can go back in high-sec and to kill more T1 easter-eggs ... er... haulers >:) On balance I'd say it's worth it :) T-
Yes, I understand, but it makes it take that much longer, which is nothing but a good thing.
As for your idea, please see previous quote. |
Xolve
The Suicide Kings
Test Alliance Please Ignore
897
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 18:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
ITT: PvE Players being :smug: about forcing PvP players to PvE; but criticizing EvE: Online (A PvP Game) for having 'PvP'.
One big circlejerk, working as intended.
Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
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