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Ability to change career/intitial attributes

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Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.19 08:05:00 - [1] Edited by: Tank CEO on 19/02/2008 08:16:19 I started playing this game in beta 5. When retail came closer and closer, I tried to get everything right with my character. In 2003/2004 I really thought I went the right route. I got high intel/mem. I thought in the beginning that having high attributes in that field would serve me good because I knew I was just going to stay caldari and stay with missiles. Of coarse, that did change in 2004/2005 when I speced to fly the macherial and there were no more missile skills to train. But after 4.5 years, I can honestly say im pretty embarrased at my career/attributes. Im also jealous of my alts attributes whos a achura. She has 28perc/26intel/24will/24mem/7char with LVl 5 skills / +4 implants, where as for me, I have 26in,20perc,20will,29mem,22char with +4s.. And you know whats pathetic is my career. Ts "Industry/Merchandisers/Engineer". IF I woulda know my career would be that, (since they didnt have that display feature in 2003) I woulda so went the other way and I only have 700k SP in Industry! But I did go that way for a reason. In 2003, it was all a rush, a rush to start training skills, a rush to get that head start in eve. I mean I was even ****ed off that I got eve 1 day after the euros did because of the release in US. So I went that route to get I think Electronics 3 or 4. ( I wish i woulda gotten Frigate Lvl 4 right off that back. Another reason I got high intel/memory was for learning skills and engineering. At the time there wasnt hardly any missile skills and there werent many ships at all. So I didnt really think that too far ahead but you know, I didnt think i would stay in this game for almost 5 years when I made my character. So the whole point of this story is, are there any plans to allow veterans to AT LEAST change their career path (which is very doable roleplaying wise, people change careers all the time). At least give us that if you won't allow us to change our initial attribute selection. I think making a character permant for so long shouldnt be. People make mistakes and I for one had to suffer it for 5 years. If you don't have any plans, make them now because careers should be changable at least once in a players life time. I would honestly pay a fee, real or ingame money wise, to allow me to change my initial attributes/career once. You can do something with this and make it possible. ------------- Jita is mine.
Unvisibility	Posted - 2008.02.19 08:20:00 - [2] So, let me get this right. You're a 5-year vet. You already have many advantages over newer players - 10's of millions of SP's more, years of experience, probably huge amounts of ISK. And you want to refine your character more perfectly and have even bigger advantages? Since you returned after your long forum ban you seem to have used your forum access to... run a lottery and now whine that you're not uber enough. Have you done a Jenny Spitfire or something? The Tank CEO I remember used to be cool...
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.02.19 08:28:00 - [3] One Tarminic is quite enought tank you very much. Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
Slickdrac Minmatar Replicatorz Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.19 08:36:00 - [4] say hi to my 19/15/16/13/25 charactor don't complain, I've seen chars 4 months younger than me with 5 million sp more
Killer Marine	Posted - 2008.02.19 08:38:00 - [5] And for good measure, one of my alts, with 14/26/11/20/14
Judgement Dave	Posted - 2008.02.19 08:40:00 - [6] Guess you should have stayed off the forums after your ban, yet another alomst legendary toon turns out to be a complete plum.
Phoenicia Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.19 08:42:00 - [7] If CCP wants to make some big bucks, they'd implement a once-in-a-character's-lifetime respec option, at the lowly price of 30 Euros. I'd hit it.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.19 08:44:00 - [8] Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 19/02/2008 08:44:27 Originally by: Zeba One Tarminic is quite enought tank you very much. ¼_¼
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.02.19 08:47:00 - [9] Edited by: Zeba on 19/02/2008 08:47:31 nvm Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.19 08:48:00 - [10] Let any person, who is without complaint, cast the first stone. Yea thats right you bunch of hypocrites. To answer uninvisibilities question : Yes. I would like to refine my character. You act like i should be in debt because I have this huge advantage you say. What huge advantage. All the advantages I have are well deserved and I think the gap between new players/veterans isnt enough. Skill wise, any character in the game can specialize their character in a year or less and be just as deadly. The only benefit of being 5 year old player is variety, being able to fly more ships, enjoying more aspects of the game. And for all those players saying I have it better then you do. Wouldn't it be nice to know that one day in the future you would have a chance to respec your character, at least career wise to better suit your needs? I think everyones answer would be yes. ------------- Jita is mine.

Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.19 08:50:00 - [11] Originally by: Jesus Let any person, who is without complaint, cast the first stone. Hows judas doing?
Phoenicia Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.19 09:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Tank CEO Let any person, who is without complaint, cast the first AXE HITS THE TOP OF YOUR SKULL. Sorry couldn't resist
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.02.19 09:02:00 - [13] How much did you pay for this toon? If you had actually played the game for more than a day, you'd know there's no such thing as "career" and you just train the skills you want to train. If you aren't satisfied with Tank CEO, sell him and buy another toon that's a better fit.
Phoenicia Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.19 09:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker How much did you pay for this toon? If you had actually played the game for more than a day, you'd know there's no such thing as "career" and you just train the skills you want to train. If you aren't satisfied with Tank CEO, sell him and buy another toon that's a better fit. In your rush to flame, you forgot to actually use your intellect. You DO have it, yes? He's talking about the actual 'names' of your chosen path during character creation. I can understand someone not wanting to be labelled a "Miner" when he has 90k in industry and 8 mil in gunnery- even if he's the only one who can see it. Point redistribution would be cool, but should be very restricted (i.e. once per toon per year?). Skill respec would completely change the game and should not happen (although I do love to play with the though).
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.19 09:20:00 - [15] Originally by: Tank CEO So the whole point of this story is, are there any plans to allow veterans to AT LEAST change their career path (which is very doable roleplaying wise, people change careers all the time). At least give us that if you won't allow us to change our initial attribute selection. I think making a character permant for so long shouldnt be. People make mistakes and I for one had to suffer it for 5 years. I'd like this part ;) Particularly if you could change it to what it really is, like write 'Pirate' as mine ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.02.19 09:20:00 - [16] The career path merely represents what you studied whilst training to become a pod pilot, and maybe your experiences prior to that as well. Before my RL current career, I trained in two completely different fields. I can still remember a lot of what I learned, and the qualifications are still on my CV. So no, being able to change your career path is not really very believable. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Scrutt5 Snuff inc	Posted - 2008.02.19 09:22:00 - [17] Edited by: Scrutt5 on 19/02/2008 09:25:49 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 19/02/2008 08:44:27 Originally by: Zeba One Tarminic is quite enought tank you very much. ¼_¼ Dude (Marcus TheMartin) I have been reading the forums for a couple of hours this morning. Why do you persistantly post meaningless comments on umpteen threads ? How about the ability to individualy block numbnuts like this ccp so I dont have to constantly read his drivel. Tank, would love the opportunity but cant see it happening.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.02.19 09:23:00 - [18] I'd like a way to reduce my charisma a bit, too. When us old players created our characters, there was little outsdie infos on what was really usefull and was wasn't, compared to what you have today, and the game changed quite a bit since then. We didn't know what we were doing when creating our characters, and we'd like a chance to correct things a bit. Make the changes cost 500M, if that's what it takes. ------------------------------------------
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.02.19 10:22:00 - [19] Just re-roll.
Zaerlorth Maelkor	Posted - 2008.02.19 10:36:00 - [20] Originally by: Shadowsword I'd like a way to reduce my charisma a bit, too. When us old players created our characters, there was little outsdie infos on what was really usefull and was wasn't, compared to what you have today, and the game changed quite a bit since then. We didn't know what we were doing when creating our characters, and we'd like a chance to correct things a bit. Make the changes cost 500M, if that's what it takes. You know it. Charisma is my highest attribute

Andrue Amarr Federation Of Space Loonies Culture Shock Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.19 10:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Shadowsword I'd like a way to reduce my charisma a bit, too. When us old players created our characters, there was little outsdie infos on what was really usefull and was wasn't, compared to what you have today, and the game changed quite a bit since then. We didn't know what we were doing when creating our characters, and we'd like a chance to correct things a bit. Make the changes cost 500M, if that's what it takes. Nah. It's like life. You make your choices and you are supposed to deal with the consequences. Whining because things didn't turn out right it just the loser's way. If it gets out of hand it can even make you turn to religion. /me shudders. My perception is a little low which makes training for ships and weaponry a bit on the slow side but it was a deliberate choice. I studied the forums while spec'ing my character and went with what I thought was best. I'm actually quite pleased at the way Andrue turned out -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Gaven Blands Caldari interimo	Posted - 2008.02.19 12:32:00 - [22] Five years service from any game is extremely good going. There's no chance I'll last that long since Darkfall and Infinity will occur in my life time.
Mr Ballard	Posted - 2008.02.19 12:42:00 - [23] did you ever kill that freighter with your super-dooper sekrit tactic thingy?
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.02.19 12:42:00 - [24] Originally by: Mr Ballard did you ever kill that freighter with your super-dooper sekrit tactic thingy? you stupid alt you are so getting spanked when i log in... -------------------------------------------- Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.02.19 12:45:00 - [25] Wait, Tank CEO is still around!?
Sisohiv	Posted - 2008.02.19 13:03:00 - [26] This is an interesting topic for this character. Ioci is the 'Main' here but Sisohiv is a curious and unique character. She was created prior to this new creation system and had base 50K or whatever it was back then and never trained a skill. She was granted skill levels to get her to new, noob levels of 900K. As a result, she has 12 Percep and everything else is 7 with learning 5 and no other books in learning group because back then, they weren't granted. If I ever train Sisohiv her attribute potential is very visible and exposed. 10 points trainable add a 5 implant add to 7. She could flat rate all her attributes to 22 and have percep of 27. More to the point being made here, a modern template version of Sisohiv couldn't make a Sisohiv. What she was and what she is are not the same thing. I don't know if I like respec. I've seen what respec does to games. I'm not sure it would impact that way in Eve because attributes don't make much difference unless training 5 or high multiplier and Min/ Maxing isn't everyones priority. Me? I'd rather see them add a Vet reward attribute. Wisdom. Let players Use temporary wisdom allocation as a way to influence the other stats. Character transfers void Wisdom. It should be a Vet reward that is meant for the people who truly grow a character.
Luda Yana Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.19 13:50:00 - [27] right.. if they do implement to change initial stats, what going to stop me to do max 2 stats and gimp the rests, then keep it for couple months untill i leatn the group of skill which benefits from these 2 stats most and then reconfigure my stats for next group of skills I want to learn? I know some people like OP would say 'only one or twise blah blah' but this is only because they do learn some skills and now decide these skills are not very good and want to get maximum benefit for upcoming skills. What about if they do allow this to happen only if you unlearn skills which are affected from the stats you going to gimp? This going to be fair since you feel these stats 'not so important' for you =)
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2008.02.19 14:52:00 - [28] Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 19/02/2008 14:53:43 Originally by: Luda Yana right.. if they do implement to change initial stats, what going to stop me to do max 2 stats and gimp the rests, then keep it for couple months untill i leatn the group of skill which benefits from these 2 stats most and then reconfigure my stats for next group of skills I want to learn? The $30 it costs is gonna stop you. The can even borrow a page from WoW and make the charge double every time you do this: $30, $60, $120, $240 at some point people will stop. EDIT: I'd like to see a re-spec (re-shuffle skills too), not just an attribute shuffle.
Kyanzes Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.02.19 14:59:00 - [29] Edited by: Kyanzes on 19/02/2008 14:58:48 Star Wars Galaxies respec kits ftw --------------------------------------------- GET TO THE CHOPPA!!! The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Weeaboot	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:09:00 - [30] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker How much did you pay for this toon? If you had actually played the game for more than a day, you'd know there's no such thing as "career" and you just train the skills you want to train. If you aren't satisfied with Tank CEO, sell him and buy another toon that's a better fit. Epic, epic fail.

Nova Fox	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:14:00 - [31] Looking for these? "Minor DNA mutators, with commonly made materials gained from bioreprocessing they would let you reroll your inital +5 bonus points but you lose a point first before gaining one takes about 2 weeks per point. Major DNA mutators will reroll a players bloodline and ancestry, made from very rare materials from bioreprocessing, requires you to lose all points until the most common level of skill points are meet between the two blood lines, once common skill points are acheived the character will then gain points with the new bloodline. 1 point gain/loss per week." Taken from "Planetary Medical Services" a part of "Fan-Project Planetfall"
space fox Noir.	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:18:00 - [32] Originally by: Tank CEO Edited by: Tank CEO on 19/02/2008 08:16:19 I started playing this game in beta 5. When retail came closer and closer, I tried to get everything right with my character. In 2003/2004 I really thought I went the right route. I got high intel/mem. I thought in the beginning that having high attributes in that field would serve me good because I knew I was just going to stay caldari and stay with missiles. Of coarse, that did change in 2004/2005 when I speced to fly the macherial and there were no more missile skills to train. But after 4.5 years, I can honestly say im pretty embarrased at my career/attributes. Im also jealous of my alts attributes whos a achura. She has 28perc/26intel/24will/24mem/7char with LVl 5 skills / +4 implants, where as for me, I have 26in,20perc,20will,29mem,22char with +4s.. And you know whats pathetic is my career. Ts "Industry/Merchandisers/Engineer". IF I woulda know my career would be that, (since they didnt have that display feature in 2003) I woulda so went the other way and I only have 700k SP in Industry! But I did go that way for a reason. In 2003, it was all a rush, a rush to start training skills, a rush to get that head start in eve. I mean I was even ****ed off that I got eve 1 day after the euros did because of the release in US. So I went that route to get I think Electronics 3 or 4. ( I wish i woulda gotten Frigate Lvl 4 right off that back. Another reason I got high intel/memory was for learning skills and engineering. At the time there wasnt hardly any missile skills and there werent many ships at all. So I didnt really think that too far ahead but you know, I didnt think i would stay in this game for almost 5 years when I made my character. So the whole point of this story is, are there any plans to allow veterans to AT LEAST change their career path (which is very doable roleplaying wise, people change careers all the time). At least give us that if you won't allow us to change our initial attribute selection. I think making a character permant for so long shouldnt be. People make mistakes and I for one had to suffer it for 5 years. If you don't have any plans, make them now because careers should be changable at least once in a players life time. I would honestly pay a fee, real or ingame money wise, to allow me to change my initial attributes/career once. You can do something with this and make it possible. I'm apparently a miner, yet I have almost perfect gunnery skills. Its somewhat embarrassing every time I open my character sheet. I'd actually pay an agent 100m to scrub this characters miner past from every data bank in eve, and think I had got the best bit of the deal.
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:36:00 - [33] While skilltraining in eve have a rather unique style or whatever you want to call it I agree. When you implement new features into the game like the career choices and so on you need to concider that people before that never had the same choices, only way to properly reimburse them is to let them choose for themselves. When they change the talent trees in WOW they will reimburse your talentpoints for free so you can spend them again just because blizzard ruined your FOTM spec, even if wow is very different from eve, why cant we have it here? I was lucky in EVE tho, It's highly likely that I'd be in the same situation as Tank. But my brother who had played for a few months before I joined made me put my points into Perc/willpower and select a "career" for the federal navy academy etc. so my char turned out allright with 14int, 22perc, 11char, 17 will, 12 mem without any implants. basic learning skills are @ V(except for int which is @ IV) with advanced @lvl III EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.02.19 17:13:00 - [34] So Tank you're telling me your accomplishment in your chosen field isn't enough? You now want everyone to be as broken a game feature as the achura? My solution is way simpler, nerf the achura to the ground. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
BLAMMM Minmatar Blue.	Posted - 2008.02.19 17:21:00 - [35] Originally by: Phoenicia If CCP wants to make some big bucks, they'd implement a once-in-a-character's-lifetime respec option, at the lowly price of 30 Euros. I'd hit it. and so would the people with a bajillion skill points and the maniacal laughter would damage your ears BLAMMM's Rifter has been wtfpwn'd by something bigger.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.19 18:44:00 - [36] Originally by: Scrutt5 Dude (Marcus TheMartin) I have been reading the forums for a couple of hours this morning. Why do you persistantly post meaningless comments on umpteen threads ? How about the ability to individualy block numbnuts like this ccp so I dont have to constantly read his drivel. Tank, would love the opportunity but cant see it happening. 1.Ctrl+F 2.Type in Marcus T 3.Click Next 4.If Marcus T is found cover eyes and scroll down screaming as clearly your time is so valuable that you spend it on a forum talking about internet spaceships 5.If Marcus T is not found jump for joy at your precious precious time has been saved Wash rinse repeat
Daelorn Dark Cartel	Posted - 2008.02.19 18:51:00 - [37] The only problem is some people will make chars with high intel/mem then train those skills then respec to a high perc/wp (or a balanced char) and train other skills. Unless this would only apply to old chars from back in 03/04 that had no ******* idea what they were doing (Even if they thought they did )
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.02.19 18:54:00 - [38] Originally by: Tank CEO But I did go that way for a reason. In 2003, it was all a rush, a rush to start training skills, a rush to get that head start in eve. I mean I was even ****ed off that I got eve 1 day after the euros did because of the release in US. So I went that route to get I think Electronics 3 or 4. Well, it seems to me you just misjudged the situations. In your mad rush to be 'better' than others, you've undone yourself. You bet on the wrong horse. Tough luck mate, you gambled and lost. That happens to gamblers all the time. The rest of your arguments ("I think making a character permant for so long shouldnt be") are purely motivated by your selfish desire to be 'better' than others, and I see no benefit to the game as a whole for these change. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Vasili vonHolst Minmatar Gargamel's Lair	Posted - 2008.02.19 19:03:00 - [39] Make a new toon Want to see 100 Faction Battleships killed in one EVE Movie?ôCarebear sorrowsö - 500B in Carebear devastation
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.19 19:14:00 - [40] Originally by: Merdaneth Originally by: Tank CEO But I did go that way for a reason. In 2003, it was all a rush, a rush to start training skills, a rush to get that head start in eve. I mean I was even ****ed off that I got eve 1 day after the euros did because of the release in US. So I went that route to get I think Electronics 3 or 4. Well, it seems to me you just misjudged the situations. In your mad rush to be 'better' than others, you've undone yourself. You bet on the wrong horse. Tough luck mate, you gambled and lost. That happens to gamblers all the time. The rest of your arguments ("I think making a character permant for so long shouldnt be") are purely motivated by your selfish desire to be 'better' than others, and I see no benefit to the game as a whole for these change. Character creation shouldn't be about risk. I made my character to the best of my knowledge of the game. For a time it was good, but the game has evolved extremely. I mean, its been 5 years and I havent made a post like this till now and all you guys are like OMG WHINE. Man, grow UP. This post is a suggestion to CCP. There are many ways they could make this possible and its a great oppurtunity for them. I think that this possible future feature should have restrictions. I mean, for myself, I wouldnt change much attribute wise.. I wouldnt go from 3 Intel/2mem (attribute selection) and ancestry +4 Memory to straight Perc/will. I would choose 3 perc/2will and ancestry would prolly be 3Intel/1 Perc. I would still keep Intel because it is usefull. I would prolly almost think of going 3perc/2intel. Another way to do this is to make a skill that does +1 Perc but -1 Memory. Or +1 Intel but -1 charisma. CCP would have to figure out the balance of those skills tho. But that can be highly exploitable and honestly unfair. All I would like to see happen is the ability to change my ancestry/career and if possible my initial attributes. Have severe restirctions on them and a cost if you like. Make it so that only player 4years old can do this or 3 years old. Make it a 1 time thing only. As long as its balanced, its cool and ccp would have to decide on the balance. ------------- Jita is mine.

Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.02.19 19:17:00 - [41] The only two things that need to happen is a nerf of the achura and the introduction of more charisma based skills. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.19 19:28:00 - [42] They aren't going to nerf the new asian characters. They were built that way to help noobs catch up alittle to the veterans. IF anything, just adjust the old races/bloodlines to be more to date if your going to change something. ------------- Jita is mine.
Stela'Artois Los Gordos	Posted - 2008.02.19 19:35:00 - [43] The only reason I agree at all with being able to re-allocate attribute points, is due to the fact that no matter how much one studies before he plays a game, there is always that high possibility of making a big mistake when first rolling a character. How was I supposed to know that charisma was going to be worthless? Was I expected to fully grasp the concept that having balanced stats was more important in the long run? I thought I wanted to be a fighter and a high perception/willpower would be awesome! Oh well...some things can only be learned through experience. Now, where EvE differs from other games, and the main reason I don't think re-allocating is as much a big deal, because all attributes do is effect the amount of time it takes to train, not the effect of that training. Now, if we talk about reassigning skill points...then I am 100% against that. If Blizzard and WoW wants players to be able to wave a magic wand and sprinkle some pixie dust and you magically forget and then viola! relearn everything into a new profession, then more power to them. Part of playing EvE is the strategy of deciding which skills you want your character to specialize in, and even what you will avoid. Much of the advantage we have over other players lie in how we spend our time training, not only in what we did during that time. In short, I have advantages over certain characters because I >chose< to spend some time training certain things. I have disadvantages in some areas because I neglected training in those areas. If I were able to change that EvE would be lessened greatly. Im sorry your attributes suck...join the rest of the players who have to train a few skills a bit longer.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.02.19 19:37:00 - [44] Originally by: Tank CEO They aren't going to nerf the new asian characters. They were built that way to help noobs catch up alittle to the veterans. IF anything, just adjust the old races/bloodlines to be more to date if your going to change something. Seeing as the asian version fell flat on its ass I hope they reconsider. I'd puke on EVE if I two years down the line see the population being 90% achura, in whatever version of the Raven is the optimal grinder then. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2008.02.19 20:20:00 - [45] Why doesn't someone tell me a good reason for why different characters should train skills at a different rate in EVE? Really. Come on now. This is EVE. You are stuck with your first go around 90% of the time. Why should we have in essence 'power-leveling' Achuras and 'normal' and 'gimped' characters? Why should we all not have the same starting attributes, say 10s across the board and only have them modified by learning skills and implants? Someone who wants to play say, Intaki, basically has to accept being 'nerfed' from the get-go. You've got high starting charisma and your only useful skill bonus is +2Perc/+2 Charisma. So you've got take another nerf just to get a bonus to your low starting Perception. Seriously wtf? I've got to have my attributes in essence nerfed because I liked the Intaki backstory? Even so I ended up with 22 in Charisma, 22 in Memory and 23 in everything else. Not the worst thing in the world. But still my alt has better attributes. Hell my alt has more attributes. My total is 113.3. My alt will end up with 114.4. Its only one more attribute. But really, why is this game set-up so that you can not only have a better distribution, but more in total than another character build? My Alt isn't even the super-optimized Achura. I went for high Perception and high Intel incase I ever felt the need to do industry things with him. All the same he trains everything faster than my main, outside of the leadership skills. The only reason we've got attributes in the first place is likely because CCP felt they couldn't have an MMO without them. In EVE they don't serve a purpose outside of determining your skill training time. Why should some people simply end up with a real and tangible advantage over everyone else that you can not ever change. In other MMOs you shut down, re-roll and power-level yourself up to the level cap if your build was wrong. You can't do that in EVE. ____ Black Rabbits Recruitment
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.19 21:49:00 - [46] Im not for relocating skill points. ------------- Jita is mine.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.02.19 22:07:00 - [47] I've been playing 2 years or so now (nowhere near as long) but there is one thing that completely bugs me about this character.... His utterly crap perception. i would gladly pay ú20 to allow me to move even 5 of my total attributes around, and then have it lock that option for 3/4 months, so i couldnt just do it again when i felt like it. 19 max perc just, hurts. Welcome to EvE
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.20 00:45:00 - [48] My main character (this one) has his best attributes as Memory, then Intel. By the time I realized the mistake, I did not want to start over. And to this day, I'm not to worried about it. So I have 60mil Skill Points instead of 70 or 80 mil..... Somehow I think I'll get by..... Having said all that, I'd be perfectly happy to take advantage of a chance to change my attributes around a bit. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over the issue. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.20 05:24:00 - [49] You wouldn't be saying that now if you had the chance to have 20 more skillpoints then you have now. 20m skill points is alot of points. ------------- Jita is mine.
Shopping FTW	Posted - 2008.02.20 06:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Tank CEO You wouldn't be saying that now if you had the chance to have 20 more skillpoints then you have now. 20m skill points is alot of points. Actually, I pretty much just did say it. I'd LOVE to have those skill point. And with even a modest reshuffling of my attributes, I'd be 100% certain to earn five to ten million more skill points this year than I otherwise would...... But I'll make due. Actually, I expect sometime in future we might get the option, but I seriously doubt it will be this year. But even if we don't get the option, I'll make do. Still, those skill points would be nice. I have to confess that is true.

Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.02.20 06:48:00 - [51] Originally by: Scrutt5 Dude (Marcus TheMartin) I have been reading the forums for a couple of hours this morning. Why do you persistantly post meaningless comments on umpteen threads ? How about the ability to individualy block numbnuts like this ccp so I dont have to constantly read his drivel. Tank, would love the opportunity but cant see it happening. Go hunt down something called the CAOD Cleaner. I think the latest variant even lets you pick subforums. If not, you'll have to hand modify it. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Karma Eve University	Posted - 2008.02.20 10:09:00 - [52] frankly, I wouldn't mind being able to choose another career-path/respec my attribute points. I did pretty much the same thing as Tank did. specced for maximum Int/Mem.
Arria Periclee Gallente Aristotle Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.20 10:36:00 - [53] Originally by: Tank CEO Edited by: Tank CEO on 19/02/2008 19:00:00 Edited by: Tank CEO on 19/02/2008 08:16:19 I started playing this game in beta 5. Blah de blah. Think about a character name change, too.
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:42:00 - [54] Originally by: Arria Periclee Originally by: Tank CEO Edited by: Tank CEO on 19/02/2008 19:00:00 Edited by: Tank CEO on 19/02/2008 08:16:19 I started playing this game in beta 5. Blah de blah. Think about a character name change, too. Wha ------------- Jita is mine.
Jim Pooley Seven.	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:53:00 - [55] Originally by: Tank CEO Originally by: Arria Periclee Originally by: Tank CEO Edited by: Tank CEO on 19/02/2008 19:00:00 Edited by: Tank CEO on 19/02/2008 08:16:19 I started playing this game in beta 5. Blah de blah. Think about a character name change, too. Wha As you are clearly too thick to understand sarcasm, allow me to point it out for you. Noone believes for one second you are the original TANK CEO. He was way way cooler and dignified than you are. You are no more the original TANK than I am. ------------------------------------------ Mines a Pint of Large
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:59:00 - [56] I could care less about who you think i am, if im the original or not. People who know me know who I am and thats all that matters to me. The reason i reply to your pathetic post is I don't like ******** who think they know it all, post lies and go off topic. ------------- Jita is mine.
Frug True Foundation R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:05:00 - [57] I was apprehensive about the suggestion at first but the more I think about it the more I believe it would only be a good thing to give people some way to adjust their attribute points. The "DNA mutator" nova fox suggests on the first page sounds great to me. Whoever suggested shuffling SP is a douche though. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Lost True Caldari Paradise project	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:13:00 - [58] Maybe for noobs(for new caracters, less than a month in game)... but reassign stats just like that... NO. P.s. yes, LT is achura, this is alt, and my main have 28 intel and 7+ mil in missiles. and i dont'care. but since i've trained them with bad perc, i can be wery angry because i haven't train all engineering first and now with new career train missiles with high perc also...
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Tank CEO Im not for relocating skill points. I am confused... you are asking to have your race and starting path changed because you have more knowledge now on what would be best for what you ended up being... but you don't want to relocate (Reallocate?) skill points... so your change would have little affect on your past, just on your future... how long it will take to train that next skill point, not the skills you trained a week ago. If you are actually asking that youÆre starting stats (Race and Back Ground Story) to be modified, and then your past training reflect that change, then in fact you are asking for the Reallocation of skills. --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
Frug True Foundation R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:35:00 - [60] Originally by: Hamfast I am confused... you are asking to have your race and starting path changed because you have more knowledge now on what would be best for what you ended up being... but you don't want to relocate (Reallocate?) skill points... so your change would have little affect on your past, just on your future... how long it will take to train that next skill point, not the skills you trained a week ago. If you are actually asking that youÆre starting stats (Race and Back Ground Story) to be modified, and then your past training reflect that change, then in fact you are asking for the Reallocation of skills. lol I dunno what's confusing about this to you, but you best not worry about it too much . - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles

Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.20 21:09:00 - [61] Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Tank CEO Im not for relocating skill points. I am confused... you are asking to have your race and starting path changed because you have more knowledge now on what would be best for what you ended up being... but you don't want to relocate (Reallocate?) skill points... so your change would have little affect on your past, just on your future... how long it will take to train that next skill point, not the skills you trained a week ago. If you are actually asking that youÆre starting stats (Race and Back Ground Story) to be modified, and then your past training reflect that change, then in fact you are asking for the Reallocation of skills. Hi read my post again, it will solve your confusion. ------------- Jita is mine.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood ANTHRAX DEATH	Posted - 2008.02.20 21:28:00 - [62] Originally by: Tank CEO So I didnt really think that too far ahead but you know, I didnt think i would stay in this game for almost 5 years when I made my character. Oh well. Originally by: Tank CEO So the whole point of this story is, are there any plans to allow veterans to AT LEAST change their career path (which is very doable roleplaying wise, people change careers all the time). At least give us that if you won't allow us to change our initial attribute selection. I think making a character permant for so long shouldnt be. People make mistakes and I for one had to suffer it for 5 years. If you don't have any plans, make them now because careers should be changable at least once in a players life time. I would honestly pay a fee, real or ingame money wise, to allow me to change my initial attributes/career once. You can do something with this and make it possible. Edit> Let me add that I thought career was the first line of decision making in the character process. I have forgotten of ancestry since its been so long since I made a character. Let me add that what I ment in the respec was the ability to change ancestry along with career. I left WoW for a lot of reasons. EVE doesn't need a 'respec' button. If you want the benefits of a reroll, then reroll. Oh, wait... you also said this: Originally by: Tank CEO Im also jealous of my alts attributes whos a achura. She has 28perc/26intel/24will/24mem/7char with LVl 5 skills / +4 implants, where as for me, I have 26in,20perc,20will,29mem,22char with +4s.. So you already DID reroll. You rolled an alt and trained it up differently. Quit crying. If the current state of affairs is absolutely unacceptable to you, can I hav ur stuff?
Protrade Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2008.02.20 21:34:00 - [63] I also wish I had the ability to change my starting five attribute points... I put +4 into charisma to balance my attributes out not knowing any better....... Since then I have +5 my adv learning skills to help balance, still stinks though. _____________________________________ I am the trading alt for a very wealthy industrial corporation. Billions of isk flow through my Jita 4-4 account every day and I never undock. I'm lovin it.
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.20 22:21:00 - [64] Edited by: Tank CEO on 20/02/2008 22:21:54 Quote: So you already DID reroll. You rolled an alt and trained it up differently. Quit crying. If the current state of affairs is absolutely unacceptable to you, can I hav ur stuff? Actually, I speced him ( not trained ) slightly different, +3 Perc/+2 Intel. Try harder flaming noob. Also, you cant have my stuff begger. ------------- Jita is mine.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.20 23:43:00 - [65] Originally by: Tank CEO Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Tank CEO Im not for relocating skill points. I am confused... you are asking to have your race and starting path changed because you have more knowledge now on what would be best for what you ended up being... but you don't want to relocate (Reallocate?) skill points... so your change would have little affect on your past, just on your future... how long it will take to train that next skill point, not the skills you trained a week ago. If you are actually asking that youÆre starting stats (Race and Back Ground Story) to be modified, and then your past training reflect that change, then in fact you are asking for the Reallocation of skills. Hi read my post again, it will solve your confusion. I read it again... it did not really help... (and no, I am not all that worried about it) If all you are asking for is to have your sub-race (Civire it seems) changed to Achura and your base stats adjusted accordingly Charisma 6 to 3 Intelligence 5 to 8 Memory 4 to 6 Perception 9 to 7 Willpower 6 to 6 then Change your Career and Specialization (title listed on your character sheet that no longer fit)... with again some minor shift in your base stats and from this point forward your training would be based on those stats (modified by training and Implants of course) then tend to agree with you, some stipulations may be needed, race and bloodline would require a new picture and that may be too much, but the stats, Career and Specialization don't seem to be all that major... --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.21 00:52:00 - [66] Wow you fail at reading. Theres no way in hell I would swap over to Achura. My post clearly states to make it possible to change my ancestry, not bloodline/race, as well as career one time in a characters life time to enable people to somewhat respec their initial attribute selection. ------------- Jita is mine.
Akabe Six Sense Corp. CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:50:00 - [67] I think I can see the reasoning behind Tank's opening post. I haven't been in the game since beta, but sometimes I too wish I could reallocate my attribute points just a little. I started out with a very high INT and MEM and I'm now feeling that training PER/WIL based skills takes an awful lot of time. While I don't agree that you should be able to change your career path (as it's supposed to be your history before your character enters the EVE universe, RPG-wise), I think it would be nice if there was a possibility to alter your attributes at least slightly. The DNA mutator that has been suggested sounds interesting, and so does the "wisdom" attribute. How about giving veteran characters (that have nto been transfered) one extra attribute point they can freely allocate to one of their attributes each year, as some kind of a birthday present? Or, alternatively, the possibility to re-allocate one of their attribute points from one attribute to another, each year? Generally, I think that this is indeed something that CCP should think about.
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.21 19:33:00 - [68] My only issue is im listed as a Industrialist.. which I only have 700k SP in that field. Thats not my path... Ill tell you the reason I went high memory. It wasnt for drones or industry, it was for learning skills, I thought that the learning skills and adv learning skills would all have a memory as their main attributes. ------------- Jita is mine.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood ANTHRAX DEATH	Posted - 2008.02.21 20:01:00 - [69] Originally by: Tank CEO Edited by: Tank CEO on 20/02/2008 22:21:54 Quote: So you already DID reroll. You rolled an alt and trained it up differently. Quit crying. If the current state of affairs is absolutely unacceptable to you, can I hav ur stuff? Actually, I speced him ( not trained ) slightly different, +3 Perc/+2 Intel. Try harder flaming noob. Also, you cant have my stuff begger. You reinforce my point, then. You rolled a toon with new attributes but trained the same skills. That's a reroll if I ever saw one. Since you're quitting, I demand you give me ur stuff.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood ANTHRAX DEATH	Posted - 2008.02.21 20:21:00 - [70] Originally by: Tank CEO My only issue is im listed as a Industrialist.. which I only have 700k SP in that field. Thats not my path... Ill tell you the reason I went high memory. It wasnt for drones or industry, it was for learning skills, I thought that the learning skills and adv learning skills would all have a memory as their main attributes. Mmkay, so you thought wrong, you made a choice based on a flawed understanding of the skills, and now want CCP to give you a "I don't lose" button (not to be mistaken with the "I Win" button)? Listen mate, all flaming and nonsense aside, it sounds like you made a noob mistake when you were a noob. I'm sure thousands of people did the same thing (I'm sebiestor instead of Brutor, for instance). I don't think it would be a good development for CCP to put this type of World of Warcraft import in the game. It's bad enough they've been nerfing the hell out of everything, they don't need to nerf 'consequences of ill-informed choices' too.

Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.21 21:43:00 - [71] Originally by: Havohej You reinforce my point, then. You rolled a toon with new attributes but trained the same skills. That's a reroll if I ever saw one. Since you're quitting, I demand you give me ur stuff. Damn your annoying. Who the hell says im quiting? I train alts perfectly, use them, then sell them when I can get a hefty profit of isk. JUST by addding a 1 Time only respec does not make this game like world of warcraft. IN wow, you can respec with no limit. I am suggesting that CCP implement a 1 time respec per character and have a restriction that would only allow characters over 2,3,4 or 5 years old, whatever they may choose to respec. Its like having a name you don't want. I dont want to be a industrialists. As I said before, If I known I would have been listed in my character sheet as a "Industrialist/Merchandiser (Engineer i dont mind) I would have never specced that way. I didnt make a noob mistake in beginning of eve. Its just that eve has evolved so much in 5 years that If i knew what I knew now, I would have never went all intel/memory. Again, I dont mind intel, I just hate my memory. Its useless to me! ------------- Jita is mine.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 21:52:00 - [72] Watching a 5 year vet get trolled by a is pretty funny, tbh. Tank, you should know better ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Sparta Honour Bound	Posted - 2008.02.21 22:02:00 - [73] I agree with Tank CEO. I would enjoy the respec system similar to Starwars. I too was in BETA 5 and I started the game all tilted to being an industrial type. Career change, role play change, I do not care what you call it EVE would be a better game if allowed its customers to adjust their characters. And on another note, way shouldn't CCP value its long standing customers; ya, I'd love a Christmas present every year with a reward for my loyality (new faction frigate--sure). They never will, I am sure, in their hearts they are socialists. I still have fond memories of you Tank. You attacked me in your merlin when I was mining in a bantam. You old pirate you.
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.22 00:43:00 - [74] i fully agree with the OP, i to did a bit of digging around and found most people saying that a good character has high mem, and intel when i first started playing. Well now my toon is borked, but hay that's the way of the world i suppose. I think the real reason its annoying is, because in a game like WOW or SWG, or any-other MMO for that matter, re-rolling a character is a lot easier, you work with your stats in other games, in EVE its TIME that is the problem. You train your skills and they take time, based on your stats. where as with other MMO's you have your base attributes, but then you Grind your character up, someone with more time at the computer can train a character up faster than one who works a 12 hour shift and only gets to play for 1 hour a day, where as in Eve, if your attributes are pants, then your learning is pants, regardless of how long you spend at the screen. I used to play RF online, it was a very good PVP game at one point, and re-rolling a character was as easy as sitting there whacking a monster to death. I love the skill book system in EVE, it means i can walk away and train whilst not even logged in. But when my husband recently rolled a toon, his base stats were miles ahead of mine. his training time was down a lot lower than mine, and i had implants and learning skills trained not to mention a 2 year old character? Many a time i have thought about just quiting with the toon i have, and re rolling, but having to wait all that time for skills to train is a bit disconcerting, its not about a "quick fix" its about having to sit and wait for skills that you previously had again regardless of if you are now training them faster. Its hard to explain but i hope you get what I'm trying to say.
Daelorn Dark Cartel	Posted - 2008.02.22 02:09:00 - [75] Originally by: Havohej You reinforce my point, then. You rolled a toon with new attributes but trained the same skills. That's a reroll if I ever saw one. Since you're quitting, I demand you give me ur stuff. We don't "roll" "toons" Now please GTFO of my EVE, you and your WoW corp.
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2008.02.22 06:32:00 - [76] Originally by: Jim Pooley As you are clearly too thick to understand sarcasm, allow me to point it out for you. Noone believes for one second you are the original TANK CEO. He was way way cooler and dignified than you are. You are no more the original TANK than I am. Oops. Do me a favour matey and say hi to your next clone for me yeah... ---------------------------- Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........ Hah, no more hijacks here!!!!
UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp INVICTUS.	Posted - 2008.02.22 07:50:00 - [77] why is it everytime a vet say somehtying like this, tons of newer player whine about the old player whine. do not forget what i am about to say to you.... the old players are the direct reason to why you are playing this ausome game, so stop it and have some respect. i fully understand tank ceo on this matter, hell i bet most at ccp does to. when we first started out eve wasent what it is now. and we made our caracters to what it was and now we have to suffer for it ? bull**.. . its just stupid atributes, not like a whole rebuilding of skills... so stuff it. im so sick and tired of all the god damn whining in this game, u cant make a thread without it being flamed.. and that is really a shame.. to sum it up... OFCAUSE it should be posible to change SOMETHING with your caracter when you have played that long, you ***** paid 5 years for a game and that has to meen something! end of story,. OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp INVICTUS.	Posted - 2008.02.22 07:52:00 - [78] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Tank CEO My only issue is im listed as a Industrialist.. which I only have 700k SP in that field. Thats not my path... Ill tell you the reason I went high memory. It wasnt for drones or industry, it was for learning skills, I thought that the learning skills and adv learning skills would all have a memory as their main attributes. Mmkay, so you thought wrong, you made a choice based on a flawed understanding of the skills, and now want CCP to give you a "I don't lose" button (not to be mistaken with the "I Win" button)? Listen mate, all flaming and nonsense aside, it sounds like you made a noob mistake when you were a noob. I'm sure thousands of people did the same thing (I'm sebiestor instead of Brutor, for instance). I don't think it would be a good development for CCP to put this type of World of Warcraft import in the game. It's bad enough they've been nerfing the hell out of everything, they don't need to nerf 'consequences of ill-informed choices' too. you say it yourself... made a n00b mistake 5 YEARS AGO... and others will want also to change a litlle on there mains... OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.02.22 09:07:00 - [79] I see nothing wrong with what Tank is asking for. Tbh it's kind of jacked that character creation can make such a big differenece in amount of time to acquire your skills of choice WHILE ASKED TO MAKE THESE CHOICES when you know the least about the game. Wish I had had a clue like this when I first started: Akita T's thread Juwi Kotch thread Of course, if everyone got that kind of tip when they first started, everyone would be Achura. There's something fundamentally wrong with character creation in Eve. Primarily that alot of choices are made based on avatar appearence when that may seriously effect your SP progress due to the inequality in rate of stats use in training. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.22 09:41:00 - [80] Originally by: Roy Batty68 I see nothing wrong with what Tank is asking for. Tbh it's kind of jacked that character creation can make such a big differenece in amount of time to acquire your skills of choice WHILE ASKED TO MAKE THESE CHOICES when you know the least about the game. That's the rub of it. Noobs are asked to make a choice about something they do not understand and forced to deal with it or reroll and loose what they've accomplished. That's not good for customer satisfaction. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)

UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp INVICTUS.	Posted - 2008.02.22 10:19:00 - [81] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Roy Batty68 I see nothing wrong with what Tank is asking for. Tbh it's kind of jacked that character creation can make such a big differenece in amount of time to acquire your skills of choice WHILE ASKED TO MAKE THESE CHOICES when you know the least about the game. That's the rub of it. Noobs are asked to make a choice about something they do not understand and forced to deal with it or reroll and loose what they've accomplished. That's not good for customer satisfaction. /signed. OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.22 10:53:00 - [82] Edited by: Tesl on 22/02/2008 10:54:33 Originally by: UGWidowmaker Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Roy Batty68 I see nothing wrong with what Tank is asking for. Tbh it's kind of jacked that character creation can make such a big difference in amount of time to acquire your skills of choice WHILE ASKED TO MAKE THESE CHOICES when you know the least about the game. That's the rub of it. Noobs are asked to make a choice about something they do not understand and forced to deal with it or reroll and loose what they've accomplished. That's not good for customer satisfaction. /signed. /Agree Although i haven't been playing the game long (only 2 years, with a 6 month break) But it seems fundamentally wrong. I rolled a Alt on the same account the other day to see if i could get better base stats, and then sat there thinking "wow, i rolled a character back then and didn't have the first idea what "gunnery +II" or "spatial awareness +III" was all about, no wonder my character has borked base stats. Funny thing is, i rolled a Amarr and ended up with better skills trained already (almost all trained to level 4 or 5 ?) and decent base stats everything either 10 or better, with charisma as low as possible only thing putting me off using the Alt, is that ive almost trained my main up to use the ship i always wanted.
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.22 22:40:00 - [83] If you agree with my idea, sign it. Make this post get noticed. ------------- Jita is mine.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood ANTHRAX DEATH	Posted - 2008.02.23 07:31:00 - [84] Originally by: Daelorn Originally by: Havohej You reinforce my point, then. You rolled a toon with new attributes but trained the same skills. That's a reroll if I ever saw one. Since you're quitting, I demand you give me ur stuff. We don't "roll" "toons" Now please GTFO of my EVE, you and your WoW corp. Go to page 1 of this thread, click 'Edit' at the top of your browser, click 'Find in this page', and type in the word toon. Then try roll and reroll. I didn't appear on page one of this thread, I came in late. Come down to Omist and make me GTFO your EvE. Me and my WoW corp.
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.23 21:31:00 - [85] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Daelorn Originally by: Havohej You reinforce my point, then. You rolled a toon with new attributes but trained the same skills. That's a reroll if I ever saw one. Since you're quitting, I demand you give me ur stuff. We don't "roll" "toons" Now please GTFO of my EVE, you and your WoW corp. Go to page 1 of this thread, click 'Edit' at the top of your browser, click 'Find in this page', and type in the word toon. Then try roll and reroll. I didn't appear on page one of this thread, I came in late. Come down to Omist and make me GTFO your EvE. Me and my WoW corp. Stop posting here. ------------- Jita is mine.
pershphanie Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.02.23 21:43:00 - [86] Originally by: Tank CEO Edited by: Tank CEO on 22/02/2008 22:40:32 I started playing this game in beta 5. When retail came closer and closer, I tried to get everything right with my character. In 2003/2004 I really thought I went the right route. I got high intel/mem. I thought in the beginning that having high attributes in that field would serve me good because I knew I was just going to stay caldari and stay with missiles. Of coarse, that did change in 2004/2005 when I speced to fly the macherial and there were no more missile skills to train. But after 4.5 years, I can honestly say im pretty embarrased at my career/attributes. Im also jealous of my alts attributes whos a achura. She has 28perc/26intel/24will/24mem/7char with LVl 5 skills / +4 implants, where as for me, I have 26in,20perc,20will,29mem,22char with +4s.. And you know whats pathetic is my career. Ts "Industry/Merchandisers/Engineer". IF I woulda know my career would be that, (since they didnt have that display feature in 2003) I woulda so went the other way and I only have 700k SP in Industry! But I did go that way for a reason. In 2003, it was all a rush, a rush to start training skills, a rush to get that head start in eve. I mean I was even ****ed off that I got eve 1 day after the euros did because of the release in US. So I went that route to get I think Electronics 3 or 4. ( I wish i woulda gotten Frigate Lvl 4 right off that back. Another reason I got high intel/memory was for learning skills and engineering. At the time there wasnt hardly any missile skills and there werent many ships at all. So I didnt really think that too far ahead but you know, I didnt think i would stay in this game for almost 5 years when I made my character. So the whole point of this story is, are there any plans to allow veterans to AT LEAST change their career path (which is very doable roleplaying wise, people change careers all the time). At least give us that if you won't allow us to change our initial attribute selection. I think making a character permant for so long shouldnt be. People make mistakes and I for one had to suffer it for 5 years. If you don't have any plans, make them now because careers should be changable at least once in a players life time. I would honestly pay a fee, real or ingame money wise, to allow me to change my initial attributes/career once. You can do something with this and make it possible. Edit> Let me add that I thought career was the first line of decision making in the character process. I have forgotten of ancestry since its been so long since I made a character. Let me add that what I ment in the respec was the ability to change ancestry along with career. Me and my 5 base willpower points agree with everything said above.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.23 22:14:00 - [87] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 23/02/2008 22:14:41 It doesn't matter who you are in the game, on the forums any ! can smack like as if he actually knew something. I agree with you Tank, but I doubt CCP will ever do such a thing. Maybe add implants that go beyond +4, but work similar to: -5cha, +4int =P Help promote the "boost low-sec"-project.
Crax McGee Quam Singulari	Posted - 2008.02.23 22:33:00 - [88] /sighned
Deira Lenia The Chaotic Order Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.02.23 22:35:00 - [89] Your complaining about something you did 5 years ago and suggest a feature to fix that fault to CCP. So what, CCP patched in some senseless words. For someone with your reputation (tbh, nice job on the lowsec miner) I did not expect such low-class whine. Like you posted you wanted to be the best when you started. After 5 years you concluded that you are not the best. And are practicaly demanding CCP to give you the option to become the best. You sir, Are a numpty. -- Real men corpse tank Fallout Project Forums The Chaotic Order Forums
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.23 22:50:00 - [90] Originally by: Deira Lenia Your complaining about something you did 5 years ago and suggest a feature to fix that fault to CCP. So what, CCP patched in some senseless words. For someone with your reputation (tbh, nice job on the lowsec miner) I did not expect such low-class whine. Like you posted you wanted to be the best when you started. After 5 years you concluded that you are not the best. And are practicaly demanding CCP to give you the option to become the best. You sir, Are a numpty. And you are daft? He didn't say anything about being "the best". There was no way to predict what the choices you made 4-5 years ago would lead to. Added that to the fact that several training fields had their primary/secondary attributes reassinged at some time to "balance" that exact thing we're talking about. It's not absurd to have the option of a limited "respec" (yuk word)... not change the race entirely... profession, bloodline could do the trick. Be it a once per 2-3-4 years option. I wouldn't change mine even though I have more charisma than I'd like heh... I kinda like being a special forces ...artist I would probably change my alt's though.

Dionisius Gallente Critical Analysis R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:04:00 - [91] Yeh i agree also with Tank, when i started playing i had no ideia that selecting Jin-Mei ->> comander path would get me alot of charisma and low memory/intel, i meen, i'm happy with my career spec as it fully mirrors what i mostly do, spec ops jobs, but i don't use comand skills that often and mostly i'm always depending on implants to balance and help out my skill training. The respec once in a liftime feature based on what Tank is suggesting would be very nice. _____________________________________ I pay beer for new sig. - Sorry for the trouble Mits.
Feek United Nations Intelligence Taskforce Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:47:00 - [92] I've got over 60 mil SP and crap attributes. I had no idea what I was doing when I created my character - I chose Gallente because the friend who introduced me to Eve told me that there are a lot of people in the Gallente chat channel. My starting attributes were intel 9, perception 8, charisma 12, willpower 4 and memory 6. Even now with all learning skills to 5 and all advanced learning (except charisma) to 4 they're a poor intel 24, perception 23, charisma 25, willpower 18 and memory 20 but I've got no real desire to try and swap them around, nor to reallocate points and I'm not even bothered about changing my career from Business/Activists/Executive Commander. It's how my character was born and how it's grown. I've even created alts a few times with a view to changing his face over but even though I've spent hours making a new face, I just can't hit that button to get it swapped. My character is me, I've nurtured it since birth and I really don't want to change it in any way. Sure, I sometimes think that I'd love to get rid of all those non Gallente ship skills but in the long run it's just like making a mistake and picking the wrong evening classes. It's part of the history of my character and I wouldn't do it even if given the opportunity. Sorry Tank, I can't agree with you. There's no need. --
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.24 02:02:00 - [93] to be honest I am in many ways against it cause I like eve being harsh and all choices being permanent, I myself made wrong choices though and I would use this feature if was available. Join The Fight With Promo Today View The North Star!
Paladineguru Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.24 03:02:00 - [94] I can completely sympathize with tank. As a beta player myself Newer players dont realize what we dealt with from ccp. 1. little to no info except what you learned in the beta before release. 2. non existant tutorial , no clear explanation of what attributes even DID!!!. 3. Misinformation on ccp's part. in the final phase of beta gunnary and space command skills where ruled by willpower and charisma. they changed that and it screwed some of us over big time. hence why I at 5 years in have 29 charisma and im a combat character. by the time they changed it , i was well trained in my path and wasnt willing to redo 10-15 million skillpoints and ten months of work. all characters should be allowed to respec the initial choices from those days especially. im at the level now where capital skills hurt bad just due to my wrongly assigned attribtes and ive maxed out the available social and gang skills that use my best attributes. Make it a once in a account lifetime change on only one of the three Characters( not a ******* toon you wow tards)
Missy X	Posted - 2008.02.24 03:27:00 - [95] Edited by: Missy X on 24/02/2008 03:30:27 I would never respec my character, not ever, no matter what, not even if the ability was freely available to all at no cost. In real life you can't just redo the last ten years of your life because you made a few mistakes here and there. You just learn what you can from them and move on. Because I roleplay I think that respeccing is metagaming at its very worst. Even ignoring the roleplay aspect however, I think character choices in EVE still should always have permanent consequences. You picked what you thought was a min/max build at the time because you wanted to be more powerful than everyone else. Now you're finding out that you're not more powerful than a lot of players, so you want to be more powerful again. No. If you could do this, so could everyone else. At that point, even having the option becomes meaningless. What's the point of even having different characters if they are all equally good at everything. Rather than complaining about their build not being able to do what they want, people should relish and enjoy the differences and the 'specialised' framework that EVE offers because that's an important part of what makes EVE such a diverse and rich gaming experience. If you don't like your career, change your career as you would in real life. If you don't like your character, start a new one. That's the way it should be. I think EVE should be harsher. I think you shouldn't even be allowed to sell or buy characters either, but then that's just my opinion and I'm sure I'm in a minority of about 0.01% of players when I say that...
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.24 11:18:00 - [96] Edited by: Tank CEO on 24/02/2008 11:19:11 Originally by: Deira Lenia Your complaining about something you did 5 years ago and suggest a feature to fix that fault to CCP. So what, CCP patched in some senseless words. For someone with your reputation (tbh, nice job on the lowsec miner) I did not expect such low-class whine. Like you posted you wanted to be the best when you started. After 5 years you concluded that you are not the best. And are practicaly demanding CCP to give you the option to become the best. You sir, Are a numpty. Why do ignorant people say that im a whiner or a complainer. A person complains or whines over features that are already in this game. This is a suggestion of a new feature to make the game better. This is a feature I would like to see in a game that Ive invested well over 500$ in the last 5 years, not including my alt that I got 2 years ago. I said nothing in my original post that I wanted to be the best. I mean really, how does having alittle better attributes with a 'respec' make you the best? All you do is train alittle faster. I mean, I'm already MAXED out on skills (except for a few) in the pvp field.. BS 5, Commandship 5, Most of missiles skills 5, All engineering 5. Im maxed out SON! How can I become even more powerful with just a simple alteration of my attributes. The answer is I cant. YOU SIR, are the numpty. Originally by: Missy X I would never respec my character, not ever, no matter what, not even if the ability was freely available to all at no cost. In real life you can't just redo the last ten years of your life because you made a few mistakes here and there. You just learn what you can from them and move on. Because I roleplay I think that respeccing is metagaming at its very worst. I dont blame you to not want to respec. Your achura, best initial attribute selection in the game. In real life you can relearn new things such as career. Where are you from? If roleplaying is a issue. Careers are changeable in real life and done frequently. Ancestry - This might pose a problem, but this is a world of future game play. For example, my clone can be altered and changed. Same with initial attribute selection, my clone can be altered. Originally by: Missy X If you don't like your career, change your career as you would in real life. If you don't like your character, start a new one. That's the way it should be. I think EVE should be harsher. I think you shouldn't even be allowed to sell or buy characters either, but then that's just my opinion and I'm sure I'm in a minority of about 0.01% of players when I say that... You say that as if its easy to do.. One, my career is industry, (LOL). I never went that path, I have 700k SP in that field, so ingame, I changed my career 5 years ago. Start a new character you say? Sure let me just throw out a character thats 5 years old, with 80m Skill points, with 2b isk just in skill points and o, not to mention the time trained/real life money spent on this character. SURE LET ME JUST START OVER LOL. You know, most of you noob players think, o man, hes going to become more powerfull. No man, thats not the case, you cant become more powerfull with a small alteration to attributes. Im already maxed out in what I do basically. All I want to do is just train faster, thats the game, to train as fast as possible. I want to enjoy more aspects of the game, fly different ships (Possible all ships, because Im still specialized in just caldari) So your view on me becoming more powerfull is incorrect. I mean you noobs dont know what its like to train 30day + skills all the time, because thats what we have left to train. Ive come to the point where I hate training anything shorter then that. I want to explore more aspects of the game, that is what my intentions are for attribute alteration. Just for the record, im not for skillpoint relocation nor am I for bloodline change. This game has evolved, our characters should be able to as well. ------------- Jita is mine.
Weer Treyt	Posted - 2008.02.24 11:40:00 - [97] Immersion breaking, no real need -> no thanks. Weer Treyt
Bresan Borija School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.02.24 12:15:00 - [98] Edited by: Bresan Borija on 24/02/2008 12:22:29 Edited by: Bresan Borija on 24/02/2008 12:21:13 Edited by: Bresan Borija on 24/02/2008 12:19:54 LOL So you want to change the base attribute after "4.5 years?" After amassing how many skillpoints are you trying to do this? How many charisma and memory based skills did you learn in the "4.5 years?" How do you expect CCP to change the attributes without consideration to your training for the "4.5 years?" Let me guess, you want to keep all your skillpoints intact, but have advantages to your current skilltrain. Not only will your request be exploitable, but will put more workload for CCP. Seem to read plenty a "noob" in your posts, I like to call you a attribute noob. A "4.5 year" mistake puts a scarlet noob on your chest. I have 80 million skillpoints and like to say I been here 4.5 or 5 years. I am special. I have alot of cap and leadership skills, but that skilltrain is done. Give me more balanced attributes now so I can train for other skills. Waaa Waaa post you sound like a spoiled brat tbh 4.5 years 5 years. I am special. more important to ccp than these "noobs" waaa waaa give me give me guilty look
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.24 12:33:00 - [99] Originally by: Bresan Borija Edited by: Bresan Borija on 24/02/2008 12:22:29 Edited by: Bresan Borija on 24/02/2008 12:21:13 Edited by: Bresan Borija on 24/02/2008 12:19:54 LOL So you want to change the base attribute after "4.5 years?" After amassing how many skillpoints are you trying to do this? How many charisma and memory based skills did you learn in the "4.5 years?" How do you expect CCP to change the attributes without consideration to your training for the "4.5 years?" Let me guess, you want to keep all your skillpoints intact, but have advantages to your current skilltrain. Not only will your request be exploitable, but will put more workload for CCP. Seem to read plenty a "noob" in your posts, I like to call you a attribute noob. A "4.5 year" mistake puts a scarlet noob on your chest. I have 80 million skillpoints and like to say I been here 4.5 or 5 years. I am special. I have alot of cap and leadership skills, but that skilltrain is done. Give me more balanced attributes now so I can train for other skills. Waaa Waaa post you sound like a spoiled brat tbh 4.5 years 5 years. I am special. more important to ccp than these "noobs" waaa waaa give me give me How many times you gonna edit your post? ------------- Jita is mine.
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.24 12:34:00 - [100] Did your brain overheat a couple of times to make you mess up so many times? ------------- Jita is mine.

Bresan Borija School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.02.24 12:35:00 - [101] Tried to make it to the point that you can't complain. Obvious failure against the whiner. Nice response btw. No answers and yet more complaints guilty look
Ky Vatta Caldari Majority 12	Posted - 2008.02.24 15:50:00 - [102] This does need looking at. How many people are branded as Traders, yet have little or no skills in it?? Yes, it is quite true us older Eve players got no real starter help, just trial and error (tutorial was a 5-minute joke) Why CCP had that dumb idea to brand us Traders, Industrialists, etc, when we don`t want it?? (if it was optional, I`d remove it) Nice to see you haven`t quit Eve yet Tank.... --- Self-confessed Carebear, and proud of it
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.25 03:21:00 - [103] Wont ever quit because i'll always have the chance to kill people like borija in the game ------------- Jita is mine.
Missy X	Posted - 2008.02.25 03:46:00 - [104] Edited by: Missy X on 25/02/2008 03:50:03 Quote: I dont blame you to not want to respec. Your achura, best initial attribute selection in the game. I don't play with Missy X at the moment, for various RP reasons. Whether I will again depends only on one thing - what happens to her story. I still use Missy for forum posts though. The character I'm mostly using now in the game isn't Achuran and her highest attribute by far is charisma. I wouldn't respec her any more than I'd respec the Achuran, or any other character for that matter. But I'm sure my Achuran trains a lot slower than your character given her total lack of implants (an RP decision) and pretty poor learning skills. That is, when I'm training her at all. I haven't trained a skill on her for a few months now. At the moment she's stuck in an environment which isn't really conducive to learning new things... Quote: Quote: If you don't like your career, change your career as you would in real life. If you don't like your character, start a new one. That's the way it should be. You say that as if its easy to do.. One, my career is industry, (LOL). I never went that path, I have 700k SP in that field, so ingame, I changed my career 5 years ago. Start a new character you say? Sure let me just throw out a character thats 5 years old, with 80m Skill points, with 2b isk just in skill points and o, not to mention the time trained/real life money spent on this character. SURE LET ME JUST START OVER LOL. You know, most of you noob players think, o man, hes going to become more powerfull. No man, thats not the case, you cant become more powerfull with a small alteration to attributes. Im already maxed out in what I do basically. All I want to do is just train faster, thats the game, to train as fast as possible. I want to enjoy more aspects of the game, fly different ships (Possible all ships, because Im still specialized in just caldari) So your view on me becoming more powerfull is incorrect. I mean you noobs dont know what its like to train 30day + ski Look at the bit I've underlined above. EVE is about specialisation and relying on the strengths of others, it's not about being able to do everything yourself. The game is deliberately set up so you can't do everything, and you will in fact never be able to do everything, so my advice is that if you want to enjoy 'more aspects of the game' then start a new character specialised in those new aspects that you want to enjoy. If you ever get bored and miss the old aspects you can always fire up your old character again. The other option is just get your existing character to learn new stuff. If the learning time is too slow, well maybe the poor guy isn't cut out for learning about all these ships. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks! Give him some time for chrissakes, he's an old man by EVE standards!
Vymorna Grom Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.25 03:50:00 - [105] Why so much importance on what you're labelled? At best it would seem a minor annoyance. It's YOUR character, grew with you, has a unique story, unique experiences. You seem to have no love for or connection to your character . . . after all this time. Do you see yourself as too skilled/proficient to be labelled a (allegedly) lowly trader or industrialist? After all this time, why not actually explore those other roles, those supposedly inferior labels? Might have some rewarding RP opportunities in store for you. Seems more like we have RL image issues that have gotten transferred to our EVE character.
Vymorna Grom Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.25 03:52:00 - [106] Originally by: Missy X Edited by: Missy X on 24/02/2008 03:30:27 I would never respec my character, not ever, no matter what, not even if the ability was freely available to all at no cost. In real life you can't just redo the last ten years of your life because you made a few mistakes here and there. You just learn what you can from them and move on. Because I roleplay I think that respeccing is metagaming at its very worst. Even ignoring the roleplay aspect however, I think character choices in EVE still should always have permanent consequences. You picked what you thought was a min/max build at the time because you wanted to be more powerful than everyone else. Now you're finding out that you're not more powerful than a lot of players, so you want to be more powerful again. No. If you could do this, so could everyone else. At that point, even having the option becomes meaningless. What's the point of even having different characters if they are all equally good at everything. Rather than complaining about their build not being able to do what they want, people should relish and enjoy the differences and the 'specialised' framework that EVE offers because that's an important part of what makes EVE such a diverse and rich gaming experience. If you don't like your career, change your career as you would in real life. If you don't like your character, start a new one. That's the way it should be. I think EVE should be harsher. I think you shouldn't even be allowed to sell or buy characters either, but then that's just my opinion and I'm sure I'm in a minority of about 0.01% of players when I say that... Well said.
Fayte Seraph Advent Of Elysium	Posted - 2008.02.25 04:25:00 - [107] you my friend... need a break. Take a holiday lol Too much EVE for you.
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.25 05:49:00 - [108] Originally by: Vymorna Grom Why so much importance on what you're labelled? At best it would seem a minor annoyance. It's YOUR character, grew with you, has a unique story, unique experiences. You seem to have no love for or connection to your character . . . after all this time. Do you see yourself as too skilled/proficient to be labelled a (allegedly) lowly trader or industrialist? After all this time, why not actually explore those other roles, those supposedly inferior labels? Might have some rewarding RP opportunities in store for you. Seems more like we have RL image issues that have gotten transferred to our EVE character. IT might be personal labeling, but hey, its just something I would like to be able to change along with attributes. To me, its like having a character avatar that just sucks... which is now changable with a price. The whole reason im posting here is to make this post get noticed, at least, get a ccp reply with a answer of yes, possibly, or no. I will accept any answer and be done with it. But I want to try and continue to try to have this feature put in the game. For those who don't like it, fine, just say you don't like it. But be mature about it and don't be a troll flamer and call the OP a whiner/complainer. Be more intelligent, kthx, post constructive critisism. ------------- Jita is mine.
Missy X	Posted - 2008.02.25 06:17:00 - [109] Edited by: Missy X on 25/02/2008 06:18:00 If CCP respond, it will be no. I guarantee you this 100%. They will say no for blatantly obvious reasons which shouldn't need to be explained, but since you seem to think that a dev reply is in order, I will now explain to you the impracticality of what you are asking for, thus saving CCP the bother of replying officially: If one person can change their attributes at any time, so can everyone. If everyone can change their attributes at any time, everyone will just min/max (apart from the hardcore RP nutbags like me who are a minority). If everyone min/maxes, everyone is equally powerful. If everyone is equally powerful, attributes serve no function to differentiate players. If players are not differentiated by their attributes, you are no longer playing a role-playing game. At this point EVE, a role-playing game, ceases to exist. CCP would prefer that EVE did exist, therefore they will not honour your request.
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.25 06:43:00 - [110] To be completely honest Tank, as much as I'd like that button as well, I could never see CCP doing anything like it. Sad that this thread his descended into a whining ****hole of self-pity from people who don't even realize what they're talking about.

Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.25 06:57:00 - [111] As stated earlier, I'm not very worried about being able to alter my attributes (even if my best is Memory). However, if its done, here are a couple of options for mechanics option: Option 1: Make it a skill (like so many other things in Eve.....) Have a MODERATELY priced skill book. The idea is a skill book that raw newbies cannot afford, but is within reasonable range for most other players. 10mil isk I'd say. Make it a moderate Rank skill, maybe Rank 4. For every rank learned, the character can alter itself once, so in the life of a character, it could redo itself 5 times. This makes it VITAL to keep this OUT of the hands raw newbies, at least until they know what they are doing. If the newbie has the 10mil isk, he either earned it (and hopefully has learned enough), or he has a friend (and hopefully the friend will explain things), or he purchased isk (and deserves what he does to himself if he screws it up). Option 2: Make it like a clone Just give the process an isk cost based on clone price (or some multiple of it), and maybe require some special "stuff" to do the process. Option 2, Sub option 1 Combine Option 1 and Option 2 Or just make a limit on how frequently it can be done. Maybe once a year? Option 2, Sub option 2 Don't limit how frequently it can be done (I don't like this option, and I'm 99% sure CCP will not either) Play nice while you butcher each other.
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.25 08:32:00 - [112] Originally by: Missy X Edited by: Missy X on 25/02/2008 06:18:00 If CCP respond, it will be no. I guarantee you this 100%. They will say no for blatantly obvious reasons which shouldn't need to be explained, but since you seem to think that a dev reply is in order, I will now explain to you the impracticality of what you are asking for, thus saving CCP the bother of replying officially: If one person can change their attributes at any time, so can everyone. If everyone can change their attributes at any time, everyone will just min/max (apart from the hardcore RP nutbags like me who are a minority). If everyone min/maxes, everyone is equally powerful. If everyone is equally powerful, attributes serve no function to differentiate players. If players are not differentiated by their attributes, you are no longer playing a role-playing game. At this point EVE, a role-playing game, ceases to exist. CCP would prefer that EVE did exist, therefore they will not honour your request. Why don't you people read my post entirely and thoroughly so you fully understand what im talking about. People wouldn't be able to change their attributes at any time. Not everyone would be able to change their attributes. There would be strict restrictions as to 1 time per account attribute change. There would also be a requirement of 2 years to even be eligible and if ccp wishes, they can add a 25$ fee to change your initial attribute selection, much like to changing your character avatar, which is a 1 time option if I remember correctly. You are not ccp and have no idea of what their intentions are. Dont try to be them and give me a answer. ------------- Jita is mine.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.25 09:52:00 - [113] Originally by: Sergeant Spot <stuff> /signed The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.02.25 10:01:00 - [114] I have a charisma of 29 and I'm not whining. Well not for ability to minmax properly, just some odd charisma skills. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Hitoshi Yamadori	Posted - 2008.02.25 10:14:00 - [115] Edited by: Hitoshi Yamadori on 25/02/2008 10:14:54 /signed
M4g3ll4n Circle of Shadows DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.02.25 10:15:00 - [116] Jep, I have also really high charisma skills and not whining. Just hoping that perhaps ccp will balance the skills with primary or secondary attributes. And e.g. I am not good in training ships but otherwise really good in learing the leadership skills. Thinks thats fair.
Missy X	Posted - 2008.02.25 10:30:00 - [117] Well, I still disagree with it. And I really don't think CCP are going to do it. In fact I'm pretty sure of that. Sure enough to bet a fair bit of ISK on it. Allowing people whether veterans or noobs or anything in between, to change attributes, at all, ever, for a fee or not, even if only once, goes against one of the fundamental principles that defines what a role-playing game is. It will not happen. But don't take my word for it. Wait for CCP by all means...
Hugoni	Posted - 2008.02.25 14:04:00 - [118] /signed Obviously its a good idea and its ccp being boring why it is not available as a game feature, along with the ability to change appearance as a game feature rather than a pay option. I think most people dont fully appreciate the consequences of the attributes they set at the beginning and how can you?. Its a complicated game and as such it takes a while to realize how things work. I would change my attributes as there is no way I am going to set a new character and wait a year to get similar SP I have now. I think not having this feature damages game longevity. However it should be limited to a number of occurances or get slower and slower each time you do it.
ry ry StateCorp Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.25 14:15:00 - [119] Originally by: Tank CEO Let any person, who is without complaint, cast the first stone. Yea thats right you bunch of hypocrites. i'm entirely satisfied with my character's stats/attributes. on the other hand it's the third 'main' character i've created since release, so i bloody should be getting good at it by now :\| Signature removed. Too large and flashing signatures are not really permitted. Navigator
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.25 22:06:00 - [120] Originally by: ry ry Originally by: Tank CEO Let any person, who is without complaint, cast the first stone. Yea thats right you bunch of hypocrites. i'm entirely satisfied with my character's stats/attributes. on the other hand it's the third 'main' character i've created since release, so i bloody should be getting good at it by now :\| For those who are happy with their initial attribute selection, thats great! This feature isn't for those who like their initial attribute selection. ------------- Jita is mine.

Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2008.02.25 22:44:00 - [121] Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 25/02/2008 22:45:28 Originally by: Tank CEO Why don't you people read my post entirely and thoroughly so you fully understand what im talking about. People wouldn't be able to change their attributes at any time. Not everyone would be able to change their attributes. There would be strict restrictions as to 1 time per account attribute change. There would also be a requirement of 2 years to even be eligible and if ccp wishes, they can add a 25$ fee to change your initial attribute selection, much like to changing your character avatar, which is a 1 time option if I remember correctly. You are not ccp and have no idea of what their intentions are. Dont try to be them and give me a answer. I initially supported your idea, hoping that they'd expand it to include newbies in this, in case they make mistakes during character creation, as well as let us swap skills around, which was something I was interested in. You were against the skill re-shuffle, so I stopped posting, but it looks like you want to specifically tailor the changes you want to benefit you and nobody else, and are also getting rather confrontational towards anyone who might post other ideas or argue about yours. So, I am now against this. You've lived with your choices for 2+ years, continue to live with them. I don't want CCP to let us change attributes, especially if it's limited to old characters only, or if it's restricted to 1 per account, or any other hard limits like that that make it impractical for anyone but you to use/benefit from this change. No. EDIT: oh, yeah, why have I posted this in your thread now? Because I wanted to say "stop bumping." Either accept whatever discusion happens, or let the thread die.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.02.25 23:08:00 - [122] Originally by: Missy X Edited by: Missy X on 24/02/2008 03:30:27 I would never respec my character, not ever, no matter what, not even if the ability was freely available to all at no cost. In real life you can't just redo the last ten years of your life because you made a few mistakes here and there. In real life calculating the structural strength of a bridge doesn't go from involving brain work to muscle work or good looks.
Nicholas Barker MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.02.25 23:10:00 - [123] the careers there means what school you enrolled in when becoming a pod pilot at the beginning of char creation. This game's about planning, you planned, but not far ahead and now it's bighting you in the ass. ---
Crax McGee Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.25 23:15:00 - [124] sighned agian
Feek United Nations Intelligence Taskforce Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.02.25 23:17:00 - [125] Originally by: Tank CEO This feature isn't for those who like their initial attribute selection. I'm not especially happy with mine. But I don't want to change them. See my post at the top of page 4 in this thread. --
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2008.02.25 23:21:00 - [126] It's not biting him in the ass. The skills he's accumulated are perfectly usable, and those attributes he hates have put him at the top of the pyramid as far as how progressed he is in the game. He's definitelly gotten his money's worth out of them. As far as the background, he just doesn't want to roleplay; it would be a simple matter to create a one-paragraph background that says "I started as an industrialist but that soon got boring, and I switched to being a feared pirate, all of you fear me!" It would solve the problem he described in the OP right quick. But no, CCP must code new features to suit his desires. And these features, they shouldn't be broader or useful to anyone else, just him.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.02.26 08:54:00 - [127] Yes! Lets make CCP waste resources on a solution for a problem that doesn't exist Seriously, I can think of a FEW other problems in EVE needing dev resources more than this (like, 1 gazillion times more).... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Logi3 Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.26 09:30:00 - [128] Tank, dont listen to half there fools. My main used to be Masi. After awhile i was upset at his Atribs and some skills i had done so i started Logi3 as an alt. I just knew he was going to be gimped later on. Luckly i didnt wait too long to start but i am 20 Mil SP behind (He has 60 i have 40 Mil) and i would tear him a new one, just because i am focused and he was a jack of all trades. I start an alt when the new bloodlines came out, and cant believ how quick the alt was catching up in SP. I think there should be something like you propose, but cant see how they could impliment it? ----
Cosmar Gallente Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2008.02.26 09:45:00 - [129] I support changing ancestry and those 5 points allocation once per year or something. To correct mistakes only. My character has 3 base perception . Back then the character screen said you could be a scientist, so i thought why not i'll just max intellect and memory. Ofcourse the best solution would be to balance out the attributes in future skills, make charistma more useful and whenever possible don't put perception as primary (use willpower instead).
Pride NL Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2008.02.26 14:12:00 - [130] Originally by: Tank CEO Edited by: Tank CEO on 22/02/2008 22:40:32 I started playing this game in beta 5. When retail came closer and closer, I tried to get everything right with my character. In 2003/2004 I really thought I went the right route. I got high intel/mem. I thought in the beginning that having high attributes in that field would serve me good because I knew I was just going to stay caldari and stay with missiles. Of coarse, that did change in 2004/2005 when I speced to fly the macherial and there were no more missile skills to train. But after 4.5 years, I can honestly say im pretty embarrased at my career/attributes. Im also jealous of my alts attributes whos a achura. She has 28perc/26intel/24will/24mem/7char with LVl 5 skills / +4 implants, where as for me, I have 26in,20perc,20will,29mem,22char with +4s.. And you know whats pathetic is my career. Ts "Industry/Merchandisers/Engineer". IF I woulda know my career would be that, (since they didnt have that display feature in 2003) I woulda so went the other way and I only have 700k SP in Industry! But I did go that way for a reason. In 2003, it was all a rush, a rush to start training skills, a rush to get that head start in eve. I mean I was even ****ed off that I got eve 1 day after the euros did because of the release in US. So I went that route to get I think Electronics 3 or 4. ( I wish i woulda gotten Frigate Lvl 4 right off that back. Another reason I got high intel/memory was for learning skills and engineering. At the time there wasnt hardly any missile skills and there werent many ships at all. So I didnt really think that too far ahead but you know, I didnt think i would stay in this game for almost 5 years when I made my character. So the whole point of this story is, are there any plans to allow veterans to AT LEAST change their career path (which is very doable roleplaying wise, people change careers all the time). At least give us that if you won't allow us to change our initial attribute selection. I think making a character permant for so long shouldnt be. People make mistakes and I for one had to suffer it for 5 years. If you don't have any plans, make them now because careers should be changable at least once in a players life time. I would honestly pay a fee, real or ingame money wise, to allow me to change my initial attributes/career once. You can do something with this and make it possible. Edit> Let me add that I thought career was the first line of decision making in the character process. I have forgotten of ancestry since its been so long since I made a character. Let me add that what I ment in the respec was the ability to change ancestry along with career. Agreed, im walking against the same pillar. Only 4 years in game though. Arrive. Raise Hell. Leave.

Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.02.26 14:47:00 - [131] iv been playing 2,5 years only.... and suffered for my mistakes for 2,5 years. i have horrid perception and willpower... and im fully combat specialized when i made my first alt and put her proper atributes.... it made me hate myself even more but i have accepted it that i'll be training 1600 sp/h in gunnery and spaceship command and it doesnt bother me much.... it just annoys me when i see my friends characters who started later than me and are 4 million in sp ahead of me :( ---------------------------------- This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time. PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
Doppleganger Minmatar Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.26 18:50:00 - [132] I was in late beta and have been playing for 4.5+ yrs as well and my attribs are not exactly as good as I like them but then this is a game of choices and living with them. Yeah some of the changes ccp made has bit me in the a$$ but I'm willing to live with them as well. You make a good suggestion Tank but I don't see ccp making those changes and personally I don't think they should. To all those that are old vets like myself, the only complaint could be ccp flip flopping the attribs on some of the skills. Other then that we did have eve-i back then that had a handy tool to help set-up chars and training. Since back then more ppl used and knew about the eve-i site then the official eve site if they didn't use that tool they missed out on a great resource. My char has low intel and memory yet I have already had to train a ton of those skills that use those attribs so I got bite in the a$$ yrs ago so kinda late to retool now. Live with it... I have after all there isnt any skills you can't learn now you just have to deal with the slower learning time like many of us had to. I don't mind if ppl want to change their career path as long as it doesnt change their attribs one bit.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.02.26 18:56:00 - [133] We need nightelves! These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.	Posted - 2008.02.26 19:20:00 - [134] I really lol @ how this thread went from 'I want a different career title' to 'OMG u want EVE to be WoW' Anyhow, it would be nice to change the career title for sure, but I am personally with others in that your starting attributes should remain as they were. As for all this talk of being bitten in the a$$ by poor attribute decisions... How is having to wait a few more hours/days for a skill to finish actually biting you in the a$$?? Personally, I prefer longer skill training times, means I have more time between worrying about skill scheduling -=^=-
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.11 20:21:00 - [135] Could a mod move this to suggestions forum please. ------------- Jita is mine.
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.11 20:55:00 - [136] Originally by: Riho iv been playing 2,5 years only.... and suffered for my mistakes for 2,5 years. i have horrid perception and willpower... and im fully combat specialized when i made my first alt and put her proper atributes.... it made me hate myself even more but i have accepted it that i'll be training 1600 sp/h in gunnery and spaceship command and it doesnt bother me much.... it just annoys me when i see my friends characters who started later than me and are 4 million in sp ahead of me :( Play for 5 years. It will bother you. ------------- Jita is mine.
Galen Salkor	Posted - 2008.03.11 21:04:00 - [137] Originally by: Rodj Blake The career path merely represents what you studied whilst training to become a pod pilot, and maybe your experiences prior to that as well. Before my RL current career, I trained in two completely different fields. I can still remember a lot of what I learned, and the qualifications are still on my CV. So no, being able to change your career path is not really very believable. Actually, I forget alot of the stuff I learned in my past jobs and I am only 32! Also, that aside, my original character showed a career path (after they made it viewable) that was completely different that what I remember choosing. Actually, I only remember one part of it but it wasn't on the list.
Galen Salkor	Posted - 2008.03.11 21:18:00 - [138] I think there is about as good a chance of the world adopting the MacOS as there is a chance of CCP changing this. Let me tell you a story and I'll try to keep it short. I started my original character around the same time as the OP. At first I was speccing Minmatar as all my corp buddies were minmatar and buying minmatar stuff. Then 'rebalancing' happened so we changed again. Then again. Then again. So it was a big huge flip flop the first few years and alot of us got left with completely dead skills that we didn't use for years. How efficient. And as time went on I ended up piloting the newest released ships to try them out for my buddies since I was much further along in skill requirements than they. How I wish I could have tried them on SISI except I couldn't without the new damn skills required to fly them being available! Anyway, ahem, besides the point. It left me with a really bitter taste in my mouth over effectively being screwed over by effectively being a guinea pig on the live server, thus leaving me with HUGE amounts of dead skill points, making my clone costs skyrocket when I was happy just flying a cruiser (And I had two BS skills at 5 and the required dread skills which I later TOTALLY HATED). And let me tell you, it sucks when your clone costs more than your freaking ship. Now to my point, I first petition to reassign my skill points based on the above. It got rejected. Then I petitioned to DELETE or REDUCE some skill points (yes, technically 'nerfing' my character) and they said no. So when I say what the odds are of this at all changing as attributes change skillpoint progression, I feel confident in saying Don't hold your breath. They won't let you correct ANY mistakes you feel you may have made on your character no matter if it is seen as a benefit to you or not. Even if some of the blame rests on their shoulders.
Tulayia Dark Cartel Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.03.15 21:37:00 - [139] Originally by: Galen Salkor I think there is about as good a chance of the world adopting the MacOS as there is a chance of CCP changing this. Let me tell you a story and I'll try to keep it short. I started my original character around the same time as the OP. At first I was speccing Minmatar as all my corp buddies were minmatar and buying minmatar stuff. Then 'rebalancing' happened so we changed again. Then again. Then again. So it was a big huge flip flop the first few years and alot of us got left with completely dead skills that we didn't use for years. How efficient. And as time went on I ended up piloting the newest released ships to try them out for my buddies since I was much further along in skill requirements than they. How I wish I could have tried them on SISI except I couldn't without the new damn skills required to fly them being available! Anyway, ahem, besides the point. It left me with a really bitter taste in my mouth over effectively being screwed over by effectively being a guinea pig on the live server, thus leaving me with HUGE amounts of dead skill points, making my clone costs skyrocket when I was happy just flying a cruiser (And I had two BS skills at 5 and the required dread skills which I later TOTALLY HATED). And let me tell you, it sucks when your clone costs more than your freaking ship. Now to my point, I first petition to reassign my skill points based on the above. It got rejected. Then I petitioned to DELETE or REDUCE some skill points (yes, technically 'nerfing' my character) and they said no. So when I say what the odds are of this at all changing as attributes change skillpoint progression, I feel confident in saying Don't hold your breath. They won't let you correct ANY mistakes you feel you may have made on your character no matter if it is seen as a benefit to you or not. Even if some of the blame rests on their shoulders. The OP idea is a potiental money making ivestment, with that incentive, I think it will be done.
Ankhesentapemkah Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.15 22:44:00 - [140] Meh tell me about it with my base attributes: 3 perception 10 intelligence 14 memory 6 willpower 6 charisma In my ignorance I thought I could do missions perfectly well without any combat skills at all, and was very disappointed when it turned out that 'mining' missions were kill missions too (back in those days there was only kill and a few courrier, no mining, mining agents would give kill too).

Rek Esket Grand Stellar Alliance PURGE.	Posted - 2008.03.15 23:36:00 - [141] I fully support the idea of allowing existing characters to 'reroll' their starting stats and characteristics... at the cost of half their current skillpoints. Not exaggerating or joking, skill points would be reclaimed from the highest ranked skills first, moving down until exactly half of the current skillpoints the character has are consumed and lost forever. You want a way to allow novices to remake their characters without an excessive loss of time once they have a better understanding of how the game works? I'm all for that, but you have to make it prohibitively expensive in order to prevent it from being abused. The older the character, the more they stand to lose. True newbies will lose a few million skill points at most. They're not going to 'gift' old characters that have nothing to lose but everything to gain the ability to min-max their skill points now that they've maximized what they can get from their current attribute set. _________________________________________________ I fly an interceptor so I keep a small signature.
Tulayia Dark Cartel Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.03.16 08:16:00 - [142] Originally by: Rek Esket I fully support the idea of allowing existing characters to 'reroll' their starting stats and characteristics... at the cost of half their current skillpoints. Not exaggerating or joking, skill points would be reclaimed from the highest ranked skills first, moving down until exactly half of the current skillpoints the character has are consumed and lost forever. You want a way to allow novices to remake their characters without an excessive loss of time once they have a better understanding of how the game works? I'm all for that, but you have to make it prohibitively expensive in order to prevent it from being abused. The older the character, the more they stand to lose. True newbies will lose a few million skill points at most. They're not going to 'gift' old characters that have nothing to lose but everything to gain the ability to min-max their skill points now that they've maximized what they can get from their current attribute set. Stupidest idea I ever heard. Sure let me just respec and lose 40m skill points to gain +2 perception, but lose +2 memory... um ok, yea, thats worth it, lose 2.5 years of training. Yea lets see how many players do that, im expecting zero.


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