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Low population in low sec confirmed

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Brutoth Tain Independant Recon and Intelligence Agency	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:34:00 - [1] Edited by: Brutoth Tain on 20/02/2008 17:36:02 In todays economic blog they revisited the spread of EVEs population, Quote: In our previous issue, we examined the location of pilots and found that 76% were located in high security areas (security status of 0.5 and above), 13% were in low security areas (security status between 0.1 and 0.4) and 9% were located in zero-zero space (security status of 0.0). The new data confirms the figures, Quote: A total of 1.35 million visits were made to zero-zero space systems (19.6%), 743,000 visits were made to low-sec space (10.8%), and 4.76 million visits were made to high-sec solar systems (69.5%). And to make sure they didn't just conduct a single snapshot the way they did in the last report on population spread, Quote: During Q4, additional snapshots were taken to determine if previous findings could be verified. So its pretty much an unarguable fact that low sec is the most unpopular space in EVE and it cant just be the pvp because 0.0 has a higher percentage, so is low sec busted? and could all that useless and empty space be better utilised to reduce the population pressures of high sec? ---------------------------------------------- Piebears <3 Risk Vs Reward.......You take the risk they take the reward.
Rubra J. S. Bach In memoriam	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:38:00 - [2] no topic poasts rule
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:38:00 - [3] Move all Lvl 4 + 5 Agents to low sec. Move all research agents to low sec. Put better npcs in low sec, put better ore in low sec. Problem solved. ------------- Jita is mine.
Jim Pooley Seven.	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:38:00 - [4] Low sec is exciting and dangerous. I like it as it is :D Oh, and wheres the title? ------------------------------------------ Mines a Pint of Large
Brutoth Tain Independant Recon and Intelligence Agency	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Rubra no topic poasts rule Sorry the forum eated the topic when I edited my post ---------------------------------------------- Piebears <3 Risk Vs Reward.......You take the risk they take the reward.
Jason 06092001	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:48:00 - [6] Ok, I'm new to the game, so I have to ask...is this really a problem? It's going to be human nature to gravitate to more secure areas and really adds a lot of realism to the universe. Of course there will not be a lot of people going out to unpatrolled space, It's very realistic that fewer people will be found in those areas. I really wouldn't want to see any changes in this game that take away from that feel of the environment. On the other hand, I understand the technical problems of a system having too many people in it causing performance issues. But I don't think there there should be a goal of evening the population out and taking away from what I see to be a realistic representation of a 'frontier space' type environment to solve the technical issues.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:48:00 - [7] Lowsec is much more popular than 0.0. All the regions with NPC stations in 0.0 are same like lowsec (except standing loss when killing people, and gate guns): you can hide in stations, store your ammo/modules/ships there, build new stuff there etc. The diffrence between empty 0.0 systems and 0.0 systems with npc stations is much bigger than the diffrence of 0.0 system with npc stations and lowsec, so this regions (containing curse, delve (or wherever bloodraiders/sanshas live), fountain and gurista space) should be seen as lowsec. Then we prolly get numbers like 20% vs 2% and not 13% vs 9%.
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:50:00 - [8] How many systems do high-sec/low-sec/0.0 have respectively? Lower population doesn't necessarily mean lower density. Just curious.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:52:00 - [9] Originally by: Tank CEO Move all Lvl 4 + 5 Agents to low sec. Move all research agents to low sec. Put better npcs in low sec, put better ore in low sec. Problem solved. huge thread about this already on the front page that arguement has been proven wrong.
Brutoth Tain Independant Recon and Intelligence Agency	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:53:00 - [10] Edited by: Brutoth Tain on 20/02/2008 17:53:25 Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Lowsec is much more popular than 0.0. The more in depth survey shows something different to your opinion. Quote: total of 1.35 million visits were made to zero-zero space systems (19.6%), 743,000 visits were made to low-sec space (10.8%), Its now a researched and documented fact that low sec is the least popular. ---------------------------------------------- Piebears <3 Risk Vs Reward.......You take the risk they take the reward.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:56:00 - [11] Or, as was also talked about, less people are in 0.0, but people move around there more than in low-sec. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Voculus E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:58:00 - [12] Originally by: Tank CEO Move all Lvl 4 + 5 Agents to low sec. Move all research agents to low sec. Put better npcs in low sec, put better ore in low sec. Problem solved. There you have it. Doesn't require any major upheaval of game code, and it makes a ton of sense. _________________________________________________________
Brutoth Tain Independant Recon and Intelligence Agency	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:59:00 - [13] Edited by: Brutoth Tain on 20/02/2008 18:01:43 Originally by: An Anarchyyt Or, as was also talked about, less people are in 0.0, but people move around there more than in low-sec. Possibly but then wouldn't the figures reflect that by artificially inflating the percentage of low sec space as 0.0 dwellers pass through or high sec dwellers make the occasional visit? So the real low sec population percentage could even be much lower than those statistics show. ---------------------------------------------- Piebears <3 Risk Vs Reward.......You take the risk they take the reward.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Brutoth Tain Edited by: Brutoth Tain on 20/02/2008 17:53:25 Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Lowsec is much more popular than 0.0. The more in depth survey shows something different to your opinion. No it does not, since the survey sees pirate ncp sovreignty space as 0.0 and i see it (with reasons given above) as lowsec, so if this regions are taken out of 0.0 calculation and taken in to lowsec calculation, lowsec shows more % than 0.0.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:03:00 - [15] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 20/02/2008 18:04:03 Originally by: Brutoth Tain Possibly but then wouldn't the figures reflect that by artificially inflating the percentage of low sec space as 0.0 dwellers pass through or high sec dwellers make the occasional visit? Highsec people occasionally going into lowsec is more likely than the later, which is in fact, something that does happen. However, when you are in 0.0, you can move around staying in 0.0 (even if it isn't always the fastest), plus, camps are usually around 0.0 entry points, so if you don't have to, it would make more sense to not go through these entry points. Also, many 0.0 people do have high-sec alts, so they have to do much much less moving between the three. There also are a lot more 0.0 systems than there are low-sec regions. As far as level 4s and 5s in lowsec, all level 5s are in lowsec, and if we did that with level 4s, well, just look at level 5s. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Lord Evangelian Gallente LEAP Corp	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Tank CEO Move all Lvl 4 + 5 Agents to low sec. Move all research agents to low sec. Put better npcs in low sec, put better ore in low sec. Problem solved. This. Also Solves: - -Noobs in BS (GTC will be the sole cuase) -Crowded Mission Running hubs -Value of ISK -Will give PVP better rewards with more targets in lowsec -My Anger that some one who joined the game last month can buy GTC get into a CNR uber run missions and have more ISK than me through nothing more that simple grinding...will make EVE a struggle again. , Im not a 4 year vet but in teh time I have played EVE has changed into a highsec gang-bang with much lubricant and e-peenage... [rant]PS: I am a high sec dweller, but just becuase I prefer to be in highsec doesnt mean that I want the game to hand me everything on a plate...afterall this is what I like(ed) about EVE, you have to earn your wings, you have to earn your riches, and you earn the right to play teh game how you want. The easythings pay less, the more risky things pay you more, hense making you troubles worth somthign when you have 100M. Right now 100M is nothing becuase you can buy it through GTC's for nothing, or run some level 4 misisons for 1 day...[/rant] --------------------
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:09:00 - [17] Edited by: Wet Ferret on 20/02/2008 18:09:17 Originally by: Voculus Originally by: Tank CEO Move all Lvl 4 + 5 Agents to low sec. Move all research agents to low sec. Put better npcs in low sec, put better ore in low sec. Problem solved. There you have it. Doesn't require any major upheaval of game code, and it makes a ton of sense. Except that it doesn't. The only thing that would "make sense" is putting better NPCs there because they outright suck. (Same goes for many 0.0 systems) Ore is debatable... Anyway the best solution would be to have something really worthwhile to go to low-sec for that can't be found in high-sec at all. Therefore missions, ore, and better rats aren't the answer. Obviously, boosters are major fail but they were on the right track with that idea.
Ethen Bejorn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:11:00 - [18] Originally by: Tank CEO Move all Lvl 4 + 5 Agents to low sec. Move all research agents to low sec. Put better npcs in low sec, put better ore in low sec. Problem solved. /signed
Brutoth Tain Independant Recon and Intelligence Agency	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:13:00 - [19] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Highsec people occasionally going into lowsec is more likely than the later, which is in fact, something that does happen. The most interesting thing about this survey is that instead of measuring all the characters in that area at a given moment as the last survey did it measured the amount of trips made into those areas. So the figures do no represent the actual population directly they show the amount of movement in those areas. So these new statistics show that not only is low sec the least populated it shows the amount of travel is the lowest as well which means that a very small proportion of the population even visit low sec. ---------------------------------------------- Piebears <3 Risk Vs Reward.......You take the risk they take the reward.
Pax Ratlin Gallente Valley Forge	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Ethen Bejorn Originally by: Tank CEO Move all Lvl 4 + 5 Agents to low sec. Move all research agents to low sec. Put better npcs in low sec, put better ore in low sec. Problem solved. /signed Forcing people to go to low sec WILL NOT significantly increase low sec population all it WILL make people try and find away around being forced into low sec. Increasing the reward vs risk ratio WILL increase low sec population. Encouraging people ALWAYS works much much better than FORCING people ... basic human nature.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:23:00 - [21] The population snapshots show more people sitting in low-sec than in high-sec. But once again, you need to look at the areas. If I am in low-sec, there are only so many places I can move around to, and in many areas, there's a good chance I'll end up back in high-sec or in 0.0. However, I can move around all day in high-sec and 0.0 without ever even getting close to having to go into low-sec. "The first lesson from these findings is that zero-zero pilots tend to move around more than other pilots. This means that each character in zero-zero space visited more systems than did pilots in high-sec or low-sec. The explanation for this could simply be that zero-zero pilots have to travel much longer distances to reach main market hubs. The sheer vastness of zero-zero space alone probably forces pilots to make many jumps to access strategically important positions during fleet battles or zero-zero skirmishes." Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:30:00 - [22] Lets not get into the agent arguement again, it has been done to death and the outcome is still the same, remove L4's from hi sec and almost all will switch to L3's, remove those and the game will die a slow painfull death. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:36:00 - [23] Everybody have good idea's on how to "move" people to low sec, but no one have given any reason why. Besides the pirates who just want more easy mission runner targets. If the pirates want more targets in low sec, they should gank less and let more earn the isk they want. The main reason no one wants to go to low sec, is because of the pirates busting missions and killing without risk. Yes, there is a thousands ways to protect yourself against that, but then a lvl 4 mission becomes more hazzle than worth. I say, leave low-sec as it is. It's a danger zone with a lot of risk. It's a charme of it's own.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:36:00 - [24] Actually I was quite suprised at how high the figure for low sec visits was, 10% is quite a significant value overall especially when you consider how often Low Sec is decried as being 'worthless'. considering only 9% more pilots frequent 0.0 (and all its riches) clearly thats not the whole story... C. Improved Low Sec Idea!!
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:41:00 - [25] Edited by: Exlegion on 20/02/2008 18:46:20 Moving level 4 missions into low sec isn't the solution. You first need to understand that the problem with low sec is that basing most operations there, especially mining and missioning, means operating at a loss, or at the very least, operating very inefficiently. From experience I can tell you that when I run missions in low sec I am constantly being interrupted. Sometimes it will take me days (or odd times, late, late nights) to complete a mission I would normally complete in minutes, waiting for pirates to clear the area. Once they probe my mission deadspace gate all they have to do is wait. They know I have to get back in there if I don't want to lose standings. Among other things, gate camps on the way to a mission are also a big pain in the butt in low sec, especially now with HIC's. Moving level 4 missions to low sec will just mean people will run level 3 missions in high sec and it will still be more profitable than level 4's. Move level 3's to low sec and players will either do level 2's, find something else to do in high sec, or quit the game. As much as the odd hardcore PVP player would like to see a mass exodus of players leave the game, CCP, quite understandibly, will not allow this to happen. Anyone with a sensible mind would see why. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:49:00 - [26] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/02/2008 18:55:30 Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood How many systems do high-sec/low-sec/0.0 have respectively? Lower population doesn't necessarily mean lower density. Just curious. Good question. If I recall correctly it is something like 20% high sec, 10% low sec, 70% 0.0 (around 1.000 high sec, 500 low sec, 3500 0.0) So A total of 1.35 million visits were made to zero-zero space systems (19.6%), 743,000 visits were made to low-sec space (10.8%), and 4.76 million visits were made to high-sec solar systems (69.5%). 1.350.000/3.500 = 385 5,8% of adjusted movement (0.0) 743.000/500 = 1.486 22,4% of adjusted movement (low sec) 4.760.000/1.000 = 4.760 71,78% of adjusted movement (high sec) Total 6631 Now look at the older Report distribution: 0.0 = 9% low sec = 13% high sec 78% Hmm, food for thought.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Venkul Mul Good question. If I recall correctly it is something like 20% high sec, 10% low sec, 70% 0.0 (around 1.000 high sec, 500 low sec, 3500 0.0) So A total of 1.35 million visits were made to zero-zero space systems (19.6%), 743,000 visits were made to low-sec space (10.8%), and 4.76 million visits were made to high-sec solar systems (69.5%). 1.350.000/3.500 = 385 5,8% of adjusted movement 743.000/500 = 1.486 22,4% of adjusted movement 4.760.000/1.000 = 4.760 71,78% of adjusted movement Total 6631 I'm not sure if these are the right numbers, but this is part of the point I was trying to make. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.20 19:01:00 - [28] Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 20/02/2008 18:58:04 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Tank CEO Move all Lvl 4 + 5 Agents to low sec. Move all research agents to low sec. Put better npcs in low sec, put better ore in low sec. Problem solved. huge thread about this already on the front page that arguement has been proven wrong. move L3 and L4 agents to low sec. BTW, most people in high sec are the alts of 0.0 mains. Again this refrain Always the last trench of the "my playstile must prevail" people. The number of jumps mean that the characters are active so it better reflect the true time spent playing the characters.
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.20 19:02:00 - [29] Edited by: Exlegion on 20/02/2008 19:04:17 Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Tank CEO Move all Lvl 4 + 5 Agents to low sec. Move all research agents to low sec. Put better npcs in low sec, put better ore in low sec. Problem solved. huge thread about this already on the front page that arguement has been proven wrong. move L3 and L4 agents to low sec. Swoosh . One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.20 19:08:00 - [30] Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/02/2008 18:58:10 Anarchyyt, I think you have written high sec instead of 0.0 in your post Quote: The population snapshots show more people sitting in low-sec than in high-sec Ahh, I fixed it now. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person

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