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Alliance leaders care to comment?

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Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.03.01 18:36:00 - [61] so should I fly stealth bombers or not ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.03.01 18:37:00 - [62] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 01/03/2008 18:38:35 Dude, everyone is free to leave. If they're as suspicious as you are, they will likely already have done so. If you're trying to "enlighten" all allliances in this game by this post, then alright. Most of them probably realize that there's a difference between player investments and alliance investments. You know things like fueling towers for an entire region? Buying and producing capital BPO:s, or capitals themselves. Replacing losses, et cetera. You think that asking a question is going to undermine the alliances of this game or something? Lawl. Geesh Verone, when did you start recruiting such paranoid people. "OH NO! IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!!11 MAYBE MY CeO is taking my 10% of my ratting profits for his own beneFIts!?" Sheesh. Help promote the "boost low-sec"-project.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.03.01 19:09:00 - [63] Originally by: Erotic Irony so should I fly stealth bombers or not "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
sophisticatedlimabean Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2008.03.01 19:13:00 - [64] Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/03/2008 19:14:37 Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 01/03/2008 18:38:35 Dude, everyone is free to leave. If they're as suspicious as you are, they will likely already have done so. If you're trying to "enlighten" all allliances in this game by this post, then alright. Most of them probably realize that there's a difference between player investments and alliance investments. You know things like fueling towers for an entire region? Buying and producing capital BPO:s, or capitals themselves. Replacing losses, et cetera. You think that asking a question is going to undermine the alliances of this game or something? Lawl. Geesh Verone, when did you start recruiting such paranoid people. "OH NO! IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!!11 MAYBE MY CeO is taking my 10% of my ratting profits for his own beneFIts!?" Sheesh. The point is that if your corp/alliance is moon mining their is no need what so ever for the 10% tax at all, in fact if its being done correctly their should be no need for you to rat at all as profits from the moons in several systems could fund your alliances pvp bills easily.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.03.01 19:27:00 - [65] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 01/03/2008 18:38:35 Dude, everyone is free to leave. If they're as suspicious as you are, they will likely already have done so. If you're trying to "enlighten" all allliances in this game by this post, then alright. Most of them probably realize that there's a difference between player investments and alliance investments. You know things like fueling towers for an entire region? Buying and producing capital BPO:s, or capitals themselves. Replacing losses, et cetera. You think that asking a question is going to undermine the alliances of this game or something? Lawl. Geesh Verone, when did you start recruiting such paranoid people. "OH NO! IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!!11 MAYBE MY CeO is taking my 10% of my ratting profits for his own beneFIts!?" Sheesh. As stated before-my posting this topic is independent of my corp affiliation and inspired by Cipher7's post in the General forum area. I just don't feel any need to hide behind an alt-ever. No conspiracy theory at all. Simply put-it's about greed and selfishness in our shared universe worthy of discussion. And I don't wish to enlighten alliances either...rather the many slaving away for the few under false pretext. Aren't I a nice outlaw? Yes I am . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Varheg Xan Needles for Balloons	Posted - 2008.03.01 19:53:00 - [66] I wanna be anarchy.
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.01 20:53:00 - [67] Wow, you have a lot of misconceptions. -Democratic alliances cannot successfully hold space. It takes too long to make critical decisions, which paralyzes them when events proceed too rapidly. See: KOS and 3FA. A top down command structure is neccesary for efficiency reasons. -Most people, at least in Goonswarm, make their own money for ships and so forth-- there's no corporation produced ships of any class except frigate. Everyone is a space Roman-- fight, mine, rat, scam, most of us do it all. There are a few exceptions of course. -Quite a few people have mined or ratted their way into their own dreads and carriers. It's quite possible to do. -T2 equipment is not that expensive. If you can't afford to at least fit T2 mods and live in 0.0, you pretty much fail at life. With regards to the other stuff, being part of an alliance means you have responsibilities to it. You can't just reap the benefits without working for them. None of the powerful alliances around now got where they are without hard fighting. I should also note that the most succesful alliances usually have some kind of out of game bond-- language is a big one, a number of alliances are composed mostly of folks who speak a single language (German, Russian, French, etc). Another one is attachement that comes from something beyond EVE-- such as us in Goonfleet. Likewise, we have a member corp full of people from Penny Arcade's forums.
Righteous Fury Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2008.03.01 21:00:00 - [68] Someone let you into Veto? Verone's standards must seriously be slipping.
Captain Blart Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.01 21:25:00 - [69] this "The average 0.0 dweller knows nothing about moon mining or POS" this "Im pretty sure there are lots of alliance grunt that have no idea that you can make 5b a month with just 1 hauler account and 5 posses, that you just have to visit 2 times a month" this "OP is the only one in this thread who isn't a fool." this "The average player just simple doesn't understand how much isk is generated off moon mining towers at the alliance level. Most corp CEOs don't even really get it." And particularly this "People keep going on about the war in the south being about BoB being jerks. It's not. It's about controlling moons and making isk hand over fist by holding the moon mining rights to half of Eve. All the reasons that get thrown around here are crap. It's not about freedom, it's not about fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here, it's not about a new world order, it's about the Eve equivalent of oil." -------------------------------------------- All these quotes are spot on. If you think its all about PvP, evil vs good, and all that crap, you are extremely naive. Sure, its costly to run a POS, but its nothing compared to the income generated by moon mining. Now think if you control a region with very good moons, basically you are sitting on a mine of gold. You can create complex reactions used to create T2 components , which are used to create T2 items and ships. Delve : very good npc, very good moon mining. why do you think the coalition does not siege Providence ? its not about BoB, its not about good vs evil, these are just poor excuses thrown at the masses to make them jump into the slaughtering, its all about freaking moons mining. And the funny part is that all the offended people in this thread, most of them lives in 0.0 and have no idea what its all about.
Gjs312 The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.01 21:50:00 - [70] Edited by: Gjs312 on 01/03/2008 21:51:21 Lets just say I expect this post to bring Angel's thousandare lifestyle of multiple amutee prostitutes and ebayed cars as pimp as this one Linkage to a screetching halt. Thank you for freeing our minds kind sir. Also, what happens if I take both the pills?

Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.01 22:21:00 - [71] Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 01/03/2008 22:21:23 I wish I could have read this post earlier, but I was too busy EBaying Isk. Also, the OP is amazing. Yes, we just high five eachother after killing dysp moons and all the other corporations in our alliances don't actually want to know who gets it and where the money goes. Then we go on and keep the money and encourage people to rat for their BS instead of giving them free and fitted ones, because we don't really need 100% participation anyway. And since territory and moons isn't taken with Dreads, Carriers, MS and titans we don't buy any of those wholesale either and give them right back to members. You sir are a genius and would make a killing in alliance warfare. Edited to capture all the genius.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.03.01 22:23:00 - [72] Originally by: Gjs312 Edited by: Gjs312 on 01/03/2008 21:51:21 Lets just say I expect this post to bring Angel's thousandare lifestyle of multiple amutee prostitutes and ebayed cars as pimp as this one Linkage to a screetching halt. Thank you for freeing our minds kind sir. Also, what happens if I take both the pills? All your Vaga's become armor-tanked . And that is one UGLY hoopty . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.03.01 22:34:00 - [73] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 01/03/2008 22:38:16 Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 01/03/2008 22:21:23 I wish I could have read this post earlier, but I was too busy EBaying Isk. Also, the OP is amazing. Yes, we just high five eachother after killing dysp moons and all the other corporations in our alliances don't actually want to know who gets it and where the money goes. Then we go on and keep the money and encourage people to rat for their BS instead of giving them free and fitted ones, because we don't really need 100% participation anyway. And since territory and moons isn't taken with Dreads, Carriers, MS and titans we don't buy any of those wholesale either and give them right back to members. You sir are a genius and would make a killing in alliance warfare. Edited to capture all the genius. Hi and thank you for your response. I would like to point out that this post is in NO way implying OOG misuse of ISK acquired in game. Please refrain from obfuscating this thread if you possibly can. $20 genius word....woot And kudos to you for providing for your members. Ok...thats one alliance that apparently provides full T2-fit battleships at no cost...or...is there a tax? Just asking. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.03.01 22:38:00 - [74] Originally by: Righteous Fury Someone let you into Veto? Verone's standards must seriously be slipping. I applied for the MGRL but was turned down for not meeting the tight entrance criteria. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
xeom Blue. Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.01 22:41:00 - [75] Trickle down reagonomics. --- -Videos- Viciously Delicious
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.01 22:51:00 - [76] Originally by: RuleoftheBone And kudos to you for providing for your members. Ok...thats one alliance that apparently provides full T2-fit battleships at no cost...or...is there a tax? Just asking. You make money losing most flavors of BS in CEI, are refunded the money for platinum insurance, and interdictors and covertops are totally free. Corporate tax is in between 10 and 15% depending on corp, but you don't really get to rat so what does it matter. Since we compile all this information for RAZOR corps into private trackers, I can also tell you that CEI over a week has less than 100 million corptax income. Pretty much the only thing correct in your post is that succesful moonmining makes a lot of money - the kind of money where I don't get why you care about personal taxation, you can't with any imagination pretend it matters. Which is why we spend a lot and tell people there is never a reason to rat during ops, because all the necessary ships are provided. Hell, we recently had exactly your hypothetical happen - we attacked a moonmining tower and told people to show up, because this is where the free **** comes from ;)
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.03.01 23:02:00 - [77] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Good stuff Believe it or not-this thread was not intended as a troll. Sadly...it would appear you are the only alliance of note who has thus far openly responded. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Deathwings Oracle Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.01 23:05:00 - [78] Molle tells me everyday he loves me
Maladora GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.01 23:08:00 - [79] Congratulations, you now have the most ****ty thread on the caod first page.
pershphanie Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.01 23:40:00 - [80] Edited by: pershphanie on 01/03/2008 23:42:32 I really don't know what you're going on about here. I think you're misunderstanding a few things here. Leading an alliance is hard work, and for the most part thankless work. You don't have time to make isk ratting because immediately upon logging on, before your screen loads you're convo spammed with other peoples messes that you have to clean up.After that you get to sit through a couple meetings where people are trying to pull crap on you. Then on a good day you get a few minutes to pvp or whatever you like to do. When your alliance is successful you get no credit, but the second something goes wrong it's 100% you're fault no matter what the reality of the situation is. You have to make decisions constantly where no matter what you decide you **** off alot of your own people. There is alot more to it than enslaving you for your npcing isks. And for all that yes, you don't have to npc. But I think you're misunderstanding where the isk is comming from. Almost all alliance leaders care more about the success of their alliance more than their personal wallets. It's actually quite rare that an alliance leadeer would ever dip into alliance resources for personal uses, at least without a damn good reason. Most of the time there already isnt enough isk to do all the things you think you need to do to make your alliance successful and secure. So where does the isk come from you might ask? I doubt there are any successful alliance in eve where the leaders are exploiting their own members for personal wealth. The isk comes from exploiting the connections you make with other entities in most cases. There are alot of ways to do this that i wont get into now. I assure you that it's rare that an alliance leader is getting rich of your npcing taxes. If they are, you should leave. If you don't think its fair that alliance leaders find other ways to make isk besides npcing then maybe you should try to deal with people convoing you all the time because "booohooo someone is npcing in my belt!" or " xxx corp looked at me funny! if we dont reset standings and war dec them now im leaving!". You offer to deal with those convo's while the alliance leader npc for isk if you dont like it. If not, quit yer yappin.

NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.03.01 23:58:00 - [81] Edited by: NATMav on 02/03/2008 00:01:21 I must be doing it wrong because I still have to rat and explore for all my ISKies. Anyway, buying and fueling all those POSes that do things like hold sov and form jump bridge networks and cyno generators that aren't making ISK by moon mining really dip into profits. After you make sure all your POSes are fueled for the month, you then have to build and maintain a cap fleet, to ensure that you get to stay in your nice little corner of 0.0 and are able to keep those POSes fueled reliably. Speaking for myself and my corp, however, we at least partially reimburse all losses to combat ops, as well as skills directly beneficial to the corp. I tend to always be poor and run a single account, while several of my grunts run multiple accounts and still have billions and nicer toys than I. Farham: "Remember, sometimes evolution ends in extinction."
Sidrat Flush Caldari Life is Experience	Posted - 2008.03.02 00:00:00 - [82] Sure moon mining brings in a lot of ISK. Sure running a corp especially in 0.0 within an alliance is costly (not to mention time consuming). The leaders are leaders because, either they're really good at it, or no else want(ed) to do it. If a corporation in 0.0 has a budget, either a capital ship fund or production would it really actually be wise to post it on their forums? Would it be wise to offer free ships to every one who turned out to alliance ops even if they were complete nubbins with the tools provided "for free" of charge? May be the first few ships could be free, after all nothing beats training especially if you move from one hull to another. How does a CEO/directors have a totally open corporation when to be frank the expenditure itself is not negotiable anyway? I ask the above question as a CEO. I don't have a large number of members, but that's okay with me - we do things as a team and we progress and learn all the time. When there's a surplus of ISK in the corp wallet I have in the past divided it up amongst the active pilots, no worries. I think that's only because it's such a small corporation (because no one knows or uses the recruitment adverts in game) with few medium term goals and no long term goals to speak of that we don't need to save 25% each week to pay for more toys, or pay off the alliance dues. For many people - the end game situation is a 0.0 alliance. I think this is bunkem and couldn't disagree more. It's a game, the same things bore people and when they're not enjoying themselves they should move on. As it happens my corp can provide most things a new player needs, but I believe if they can obtain it with their own muscle then so be it, if it's a corporation based operation and equipment is lacking of course the corp will obtain it and quite rightly so. It's give and take, for the good of the corporation, comes down to meaning the same as "For the good of the corporation members, even if you're not going to be one next week". Life is about memories the more the better. http://lifeisexperience.freeforums.org (because it's a small corp)
pershphanie Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.02 00:01:00 - [83] Originally by: NATMav I must be doing it wrong because I still have to rat and explore for all my ISKies. yep.
Lighthugger Caldari The Merchant Marines VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.02 00:04:00 - [84] Originally by: Captain Blart this "The average 0.0 dweller knows nothing about moon mining or POS" this "Im pretty sure there are lots of alliance grunt that have no idea that you can make 5b a month with just 1 hauler account and 5 posses, that you just have to visit 2 times a month" this "OP is the only one in this thread who isn't a fool." this "The average player just simple doesn't understand how much isk is generated off moon mining towers at the alliance level. Most corp CEOs don't even really get it." And particularly this "People keep going on about the war in the south being about BoB being jerks. It's not. It's about controlling moons and making isk hand over fist by holding the moon mining rights to half of Eve. All the reasons that get thrown around here are crap. It's not about freedom, it's not about fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here, it's not about a new world order, it's about the Eve equivalent of oil." -------------------------------------------- All these quotes are spot on. If you think its all about PvP, evil vs good, and all that crap, you are extremely naive. Sure, its costly to run a POS, but its nothing compared to the income generated by moon mining. Now think if you control a region with very good moons, basically you are sitting on a mine of gold. You can create complex reactions used to create T2 components , which are used to create T2 items and ships. Delve : very good npc, very good moon mining. why do you think the coalition does not siege Providence ? its not about BoB, its not about good vs evil, these are just poor excuses thrown at the masses to make them jump into the slaughtering, its all about freaking moons mining. And the funny part is that all the offended people in this thread, most of them lives in 0.0 and have no idea what its all about. Ohhhh...I get it! Iwas REALLY BLIND!! This is about BoB trying to prevent GOON and company from recruiting others to follow them into DELVE!! ...or wait...could it be about BoB trying toooo...I'm confused. Quote: ...then enter a T, not a P Ma'm...a T, A T Ma'm as in Tiddleywinks.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.03.02 00:26:00 - [85] Originally by: Lighthugger Something politics related? This is not about politics and chest beating. You folks have other threads for that. Don't make me tell the story of how THEMM owe me a Rifter . As an outlaw with a romantic notion of fair play (wierd eh?) and ingame anarchist way of thinking it is my sole intention to provoke thought amoungst the thousands of pilots who toil away in silence wondering what all thier effort is really about. "They call me the working man....cuz...thats what I am" Woot RUSH. Sing it with me now . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 00:32:00 - [86] all the isk we make from mining, ratting, moons and scamming goes to RA. who buys it after they ebay it i dunno but they treat us quite well so i dont complain Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.03.02 01:02:00 - [87] Originally by: Dramaticus Cute Goon comment containing OOG reference I am not aware of nor do I care about Sigh Cheers for sharing. I have fought against RA during previous alliance involvement and currently have the odd dust-up with those naughty noobfleet alts (btw..I thought that Domi was mining today in Aeschee-nice bait until I saw the T2 drones-you know who you are). And have enjoyed killing and being killed by them on all occasions. End of story. If they wish to comment on this topic...great. If not...fair enough. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
xeom Blue. Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.02 01:49:00 - [88] "intention to provoke thought" Its a game bone, I'm guessings the average play just wants to login and play. He or she doesn't really care wtf is going on and probably doesn't want to spend hours getting a POS running. Most people like to login and kill something talk **** with some buddies and then log off(or carebear or w.e they like).Alliance space allows them to make isk easy and get some pvp. Besides who do you think makes more money in a real life corporation? Who do you think does most of the work? --- -Videos- Viciously Delicious
Drantis PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.03.02 09:37:00 - [89] Originally by: pershphanie Edited by: pershphanie on 01/03/2008 23:42:32 Thread willing post Never ever thought I would type this but Persh is 100% correct. I have 130 mill in my wallet..and its been like that for a LONG LONG time. Its all about respect, respect the people in your alliance hopefully they respect you and it makes things whole lots easier. D>
bow locks UK Corp Rare Faction	Posted - 2008.03.02 09:52:00 - [90] lol. Bone - shoot things in game mate!



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