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Gallente EWAR just boost it now?

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Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.09 23:43:00 - [31] Originally by: Azekial I think you missed my point, I was on about the Caldari Recons getting a spot 200km off a gang/fleet to jam them. I was saying it's pretty easy and you don't have to risk much at all. Yep, we agree then -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.10 00:42:00 - [32] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/03/2008 00:43:22 Tbh, I hate recons of all varieties in combat, but admittedly, the Gallente ones are the least scary. Curses are nasty for their 'look, no cap' effect, and, post patch 'look, ACs with barrage and blaster-range' effect, and are quite definitely the best solo recon. Rooks/falcons... don't need to say anything about this really. Even though they are utterly useless solo, everyone is scared of them as hell in gang. Quite likely the best force multiplier. It's almost lame how easy it's to gank things without ECM with a falcon/rook supported gang. Also, done from 200km, so, failed cycle? Who cares.... Rapiers/Huggins: well, not really scary solo due to crap DPS and the fact you can hit them with ACs/pulses hard enough to force them away eventually. Of course, post-patch you could solo quite decently in one with a TD. Absolutely scary in gang, though, as they remove all get-away options. Gallente ones, well, they'll bring your engagement range quite low, but if you can MWD up to close-range you've got a chance and they can't lock down anything close to the number of ships Caldari recons lock down. Long-range distruption is relatively useful, though. Very potent combined with Rapiers/Huggins though. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Derrios Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.03.10 00:44:00 - [33] Just fix these ships. Last Tournament caused the normal ******** uproar about OMG OVERPOWERED BLAH BLAH. (which it was to the degree old ECM was) K now I have 6mil sp in something thats completely useless. I hope we learned from the old ECM nerf. Please dont take as long to fix the dedicated ships as you did the Caldari.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.10 00:48:00 - [34] Originally by: Derrios Just fix these ships. Last Tournament caused the normal ******** uproar about OMG OVERPOWERED BLAH BLAH. (which it was to the degree old ECM was) K now I have 6mil sp in something thats completely useless. I hope we learned from the old ECM nerf. Please dont take as long to fix the dedicated ships as you did the Caldari. Well, if you want to say caldari dedicated ships are 'fixed', OK. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Derrios Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.03.10 00:55:00 - [35] They are more powerful than they used to be yes? Don't get me wrong ECM needed to be toned down. We didnt need to see fleets of scorps w/ 60%+ jam chance on every enemy ship. Damps are straight up WORTHLESS now. Scripted im like 5/8 the strength I used to be on just a normal ship. So I can spend 100-200m and fit out a Gallente Recon and use it to lock down 1 ship, for a fraction of the fight or I can get a griffin and more often than not be more effective. Seriously. That's dumb.
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.03.10 00:58:00 - [36] Originally by: Stefan F Just no. Period. Gallente gets armor tanks to be effective at close (scram) range to fit mwd, scram, web, injector. In return caldari get more effective EW. Not entirely tough, as you already stated yourself you could miss a cycle and then there will be swarmes of drones on your head and you'll die. Pretty balanced i think, without all races be the same. this
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.10 01:00:00 - [37] Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Stefan F Just no. Period. Gallente gets armor tanks to be effective at close (scram) range to fit mwd, scram, web, injector. In return caldari get more effective EW. Not entirely tough, as you already stated yourself you could miss a cycle and then there will be swarmes of drones on your head and you'll die. Pretty balanced i think, without all races be the same. this Omg, the noobs. Yes, drones agress you from 200km off and just go there and PWN the ECM ship, of course. Honest. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.03.10 01:06:00 - [38] Edited by: L70Rogue on 10/03/2008 01:07:35 Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Stefan F Just no. Period. Gallente gets armor tanks to be effective at close (scram) range to fit mwd, scram, web, injector. In return caldari get more effective EW. Not entirely tough, as you already stated yourself you could miss a cycle and then there will be swarmes of drones on your head and you'll die. Pretty balanced i think, without all races be the same. this Omg, the noobs. Yes, drones agress you from 200km off and just go there and PWN the ECM ship, of course. Honest. Is there a warp to 200km option? but you can dampen that falcon if he somehow gets there to useless until you run out of cap.
Derrios Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.03.10 01:10:00 - [39] Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 10/03/2008 01:07:35 Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Stefan F Just no. Period. Gallente gets armor tanks to be effective at close (scram) range to fit mwd, scram, web, injector. In return caldari get more effective EW. Not entirely tough, as you already stated yourself you could miss a cycle and then there will be swarmes of drones on your head and you'll die. Pretty balanced i think, without all races be the same. this Omg, the noobs. Yes, drones agress you from 200km off and just go there and PWN the ECM ship, of course. Honest. Is there a warp to 200km option? but you can dampen that falcon if he somehow gets there to useless until you run out of cap. Unless you're a moron, you can warp in at range. People who dont pvp just need to shut up. Don't get me wrong, interceptors and vagabonds are still gonna rip you up. Anyone with half a brain isnt going to send drones on a target 100km away.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.10 01:11:00 - [40] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Azekial Edited by: Azekial on 09/03/2008 22:13:33 Don't forget about the Sensor Dampening Strength rig, that got nerfed after the patch as well. The rig went from 10% boost to strength and 10% penalty >>to>> 5% bonus to strength and 10% penalty. This really annoyed me as I had fitted them on my Arazu and Lachesis before the nerf was mentioned, now I have two ships with 4 rigs that cost 10-15m and they have been made almost useless. And on the note of warpins for Caldari Recons/BB - one Cov op get's a point on the enemy gang - interceptor/t1 frig warps to within 100km of the cov op, caldari recon/BB warps to within 100km of the interceptor/t1 frig. Instant 200km spot and only risking an interceptor/t1 frig Id like you to try to get warp ins on every day gate campers that camp a familiar gate. The falcon will have dussins of 100-150km bookmarks around the gate. Id like to see you counter that. As soon as something gets close, it just warps to another spot and continues jamming. THERE IS NO COUNTER AGAINST ECM. CCP needs to give us something that can effectively fight these. Its just so boring when you HAVE TO have your own falcon to avoid all that trouble. Some kind of module that, say, doubles your chance to resist being jammed would seem fair. It could go in a mid-slot. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.10 01:15:00 - [41] Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 10/03/2008 01:07:35 Originally by: Cpt Branko Omg, the noobs. Yes, drones agress you from 200km off and just go there and PWN the ECM ship, of course. Honest. Is there a warp to 200km option? but you can dampen that falcon if he somehow gets there to useless until you run out of cap. No, but you can warpin to 100km (or 100km off a gangmate who is not on top of the target), and in a system which you do frequent you WILL have bookmarks, so you can warp at 200km off things. By the way, damps are certainly standard fits on every ship and work at 200km range. Oh, wait.... You remind me of a JoJo, the forum troll used by Amarr Whiners. At least because you obvioulsy never PvP ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.10 01:27:00 - [42] Originally by: Derrios Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 10/03/2008 01:07:35 Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Stefan F Just no. Period. Gallente gets armor tanks to be effective at close (scram) range to fit mwd, scram, web, injector. In return caldari get more effective EW. Not entirely tough, as you already stated yourself you could miss a cycle and then there will be swarmes of drones on your head and you'll die. Pretty balanced i think, without all races be the same. this Omg, the noobs. Yes, drones agress you from 200km off and just go there and PWN the ECM ship, of course. Honest. Is there a warp to 200km option? but you can dampen that falcon if he somehow gets there to useless until you run out of cap. Unless you're a moron, you can warp in at range. People who dont pvp just need to shut up. Don't get me wrong, interceptors and vagabonds are still gonna rip you up. Anyone with half a brain isnt going to send drones on a target 100km away. Correct. They wait till you miss one damb jamming cycle on a sniper or stealthbomber who then wtfpwns said Falcon. Seriously. Arty sniper with one ECCM would scare the hell out of me. I suddenly hear so much crying the ECM is overpowered, even though it's exactly the same as it's been for a year, but who fits ECCM? They're pointless on small ships for sure, but on BC/BS you then have the scenario you're talking about: the falcon can maybe lock down 2 ships max. You don't even need to have it on every ship in the gang, just on one or two guys who are there with a specific anti-ECM role. I mentioned arty because of the great alpha - dunno if a Tempest could one-shot a Falcon, but I suspect it could. Anyway this shouldn't be about the falcon, but the arazu. I stand by my suggestion: Let signal distort amps affect all EW equally. An Arazu with 3 distort amps would be slow, have little tank, etc, but would have a lot better damping power. Range wouldn't be affected, so it would still be perfectly balaned. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Derrios Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.03.10 01:46:00 - [43] Exactly, the only reason EVER scream overpowered. Is because A.) People are using it more than the others at the time. B.) They can't figure out how to counter it. Your role as a recon is to help cull larger numbers. How many wanna take a bet people start *****ing about TDs soon after the change. The Minmatar pilots are gonna love this :D
X99 Z990	Posted - 2008.03.10 01:49:00 - [44] ECM drones + scan resolution damps. Gallante have no problem with drone bays either. The targeting range is only really effective over 24km.
Derrios Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.03.10 02:15:00 - [45] ECM drones are less effective than normal ECM. ECM drones gone wrong
MalVortex	Posted - 2008.03.10 04:27:00 - [46] While the Recon balance is borked ATM, can we please get away from ridiculous exaggeration? Even a max-skilled, perfectly fit Falcon/Rook won't "lock down" "several" BC/BS. There's simply too much combined sensor strength. Now, it can get lucky, and maybe jam multiple (re: 3+) targets once or twice, but in terms of "total lockdown" you will end up dedicating multiple jammers per ship over the course of the fight. People on the forums act as if a Rook wipes out 4-5 BS's for as long as its on site, and thats simply a 100% fallacy.
Mo Steel Caldari Sanguis vix Dignatio	Posted - 2008.03.10 04:43:00 - [47] Originally by: General Coochie Also a rook vs a single BS doesn't miss a cycle. @ this. ----- Want a sig made? Eve-Mail me, signatures made for 5 million isk each.
Mercator Isk	Posted - 2008.03.10 05:29:00 - [48] Who takes a Falcon or a Rook to a large fight? No one I know of. I'm always hearing on vent how our ECM ships are being called primary from the start ( at least one Scorp lost today - Sunday ). Paper thin recon ships have no business in a fleet fight. So why are people talking about Caldari Recons shutting down several BS? I've never seen this happen in real life. Fixing ECM = taking away EWAR from the scorp and putting it in line with every other BS in the game. Then let the caldari pilots bring their 200+mil un-insurable recons to a fleet fight. I'll suicide my megathron to kill that! ^------ Not in line with the OP, changing gears. The Arazu can scan down a target, approach it while cloaked but it falls just short of locking it down. But it's not the damp strength that's the problem though: with reasonable skills you can drop an enemy ships targeting range to 20% of base, 10%-13% if you max out your skills and get damp rigs. This means that you can damp any ship to under 24km and put a point on them. ( Recons are an exception to this but what're the odds of you finding one uncloaked with it's pants down? ). Sensor boosters are very visible and you can always chose to GTFO if you don't think you can handle them. Now you've got the guy damped and scrammed but he can either A) MWD away from you and break off or B) MWD toward you and give you a really bad day. Trouble is - web range is far less than scram range and situations where you can web a target and still keep him damped are very rare. So what I'm saying is - I don't wanna take my Arazu to a fleet fight, it's a waste of ISK! Nor do I wanna spend the rest of my life opening Cyno's and scouting for gatecamps or gangs. Swap the Arazu's ( IMO ) useless scram range bonus for a web range bonus and let me gank ****! P.S. - bringing enough firepower to kill something is another matter entirely... I never said I wanted to be able to sologank a BS.
Derrios Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.03.10 06:10:00 - [49] Ayep, im not pushing for changing damps, just getting the role specific ships closer to where it used to be.
pandymen The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.10 06:12:00 - [50] Who brings falcons to a fleet fight? Me?? Lol at most of the posts in this thread. You do realize a standard fit for a falcon includes 5 racials....so really you have 50% chances on each of those to lock down a battleship. Hardly the exaggerated falcon power I hear on the forums nowadays. I've gotten lucky and have jammed 1 falcon, 1 scorp, and 1 sleipnir in the past...but honestly, that was hardly sustainable...and I shortly had to warp out after I saw an inty dartin towards me. I also enjoy fitting damps more often now since ppl don't see the need to fit sensor boosters all the time anymore. You'd be surprised how many ecm pilots don't see the need to fit sensor boosters....all it would take is 1 damp and they wouldn't be able to do anything from their 100km range.
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.03.10 07:21:00 - [51] Edited by: General Coochie on 10/03/2008 07:45:32 Edited by: General Coochie on 10/03/2008 07:21:48 Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Stefan F Just no. Period. Gallente gets armor tanks to be effective at close (scram) range to fit mwd, scram, web, injector. In return caldari get more effective EW. Not entirely tough, as you already stated yourself you could miss a cycle and then there will be swarmes of drones on your head and you'll die. Pretty balanced i think, without all races be the same. this Read my old reply to that, its a stupid argument, and it clearly takes a lv 70 rogue, the whiniest community in wow not to see how stupid it is. Racial strengths and weaknesses are long gone in EvE. Originally by: X99 Z990 ECM drones + scan resolution damps. Gallante have no problem with drone bays either. The targeting range is only really effective over 24km. Yeah ECM drones with a probability to jam a BS once every 120 seconds or so, then you increase their lock chance by maybe 60sec (with a fully skilled recon). So what are you doing those 120sec first seconds in the fight waiting for a jam cycle from drones? Don't tell me you rely on some 1/6 th of chance to get a jam the first cycle from your gallente recon, I don't like to gamble that myself with a ship that costs almost 100mill. Quote: but you can dampen that falcon if he somehow gets there to useless until you run out of cap. Damps chance to work at 200km is close to 0%. At 135km damps work 50% of the time. Any other clever suggestions? May I also remind everyone that this thread is about boosting the gallente EW ships. It has almost nothing to do with the rook or falcon. So can we have that discussion somewhere else please and keep on subject? The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)
Kaiji Vincente	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:17:00 - [52] Originally by: X99 Z990 ECM drones + scan resolution damps. Gallante have no problem with drone bays either. The targeting range is only really effective over 24km. One smartbomb activation and your drones are either hurting or gone. Or someone who isn't damped can just shoot up the ECM drones before they can get a jam off. Or if it's a missile ship, switch over to FOFs and pop drones that way.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:43:00 - [53] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 10/03/2008 22:43:47 Originally by: X99 Z990 ECM drones + scan resolution damps. Takes out one large ship, at most, from the battle and does it from mid range. Even the blackbird does a hell of a lot better at electronic warfare than that.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:48:00 - [54] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 10/03/2008 22:43:47 Originally by: X99 Z990 ECM drones + scan resolution damps. Takes out one large ship, at most, from the battle and does it from mid range. Even the blackbird does a hell of a lot better at electronic warfare than that. QFT. Its no friggin secret that gallente and amarr recons need help in the ew departments when you compare the utility and ownage of both minmatar and caldari recons. Between the two (caldari and minmatar recons) they can pretty much fill ANY role needed in a gang. Gallente and amarr recons are not needed. They are just there for people that cant fly anything else. And no, they are not great solo platforms, hacs outshine them by huge amounts. Curse isnt half good either, sacri is WAY better for solo work. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
ThatCpp Gallente Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:59:00 - [55] The introduction of scripts reduced the effectiveness of so many modules. I was under the impression that once they introduced scripts, they would make those mods which were affected stronger in a specific area with a script inside than before. However it wasn't the case, everything just got halfed.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.10 23:03:00 - [56] Originally by: ThatCpp The introduction of scripts reduced the effectiveness of so many modules. I was under the impression that once they introduced scripts, they would make those mods which were affected stronger in a specific area with a script inside than before. However it wasn't the case, everything just got halfed. Yep and ECM, WEBs and TPs didnt have scripts so they stayed exactly the same. So either ccp thought amarr and gallente recons were OP before this change (so they deserved the nerf with scripts) or they know (or maybe ignore for some stupid reason) that by this change both amarr and gallente recons got nerfed below the caldari and minmatar ones. Either way ccp has failed because they a have ignored this problem wichever way you look at it. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Ivan Kinsikor Amarr International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.10 23:27:00 - [57] Edited by: Ivan Kinsikor on 10/03/2008 23:28:32 Originally by: Garmon Originally by: Ivan Kinsikor ITT people who can't think outside of the box when using damps. Flaming Coochie? If your not going to contribute to the thread, continue to embarass your self What, and give away how I fly damp boats? Are you nuts? The only thing embarassing here is the people completely crying about how they aren't as l337 as falcons/rooks. Are we a one stop jamming shop? No. That's the Caldari's job and whining about not being as raep as a falcon or a rook is just sad. Now, do damps need some help, yes. I think a range tweak on them would be a fantastic thing and make the targeting range aspect of them far more useful in drawing long range boats into a short range fight and/or just neutralizing them entirely. This could be done either via a ship bonus or just a general damp range increase. A third option, and probably the most painless and best option is to just flatout swap the optimal/falloff ranges for the damps. We get an enhanced operating range and it'll make damps an excellent alternative for us sneakier players (not that they aren't a good option already. I do so love making people cry with them :D) In conclusion: Know your role. Killing is business and business is good.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 01:39:00 - [58] You guys didnÆt come running when the pilgrim became useless. Some reason it remained 'Balanced.' Arazu needs a boost? Please.
Suitonia Gallente interimo	Posted - 2008.03.11 22:06:00 - [59] Originally by: General Coochie Damps chance to work at 200km is close to 0%. At 135km damps work 50% of the time. This tbh. As a lachesis pilot. I'd say the problem with damps isn't that they arn't that effective, it's that they can't reach or don't work reliably on targets that should be the most vulnerable to them. Would really like to see that rather useless 5% Assault missle ROF changed to a damp optimal bonus 20/15/10% per level or something, because lets face it, you're not going to be doing much dps anyway, and there are far better ships at doing damage anyway. the 5% hybrid damage from the celestis hull is also quite meh. A Falloff bonus, or a second optimal bonus would really make this ship worth flying again. --- I've always wondered about those Vagabond pilots...
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.03.11 23:02:00 - [60] Edited by: General Coochie on 11/03/2008 23:06:12 Edited by: General Coochie on 11/03/2008 23:05:12 Quote: What, and give away how I fly damp boats? Are you nuts? ? The only thing embarassing here is the people completely crying about how they aren't as l337 as falcons/rooks. From looking at Killboards you don't even seem to fly damp boats. May I remind you that this thread is about the gallente recons, not damps in general. Its not about being as "leet" as falcons and rooks. Its having a unique EW role, atm rook and falcon outperform the lach and arazu in their roles as EW ships in every way, breaking locks at a certain range. Except as a solo tackler against some ships, which you could just as well do with an inty. Quote: You guys didnÆt come running when the pilgrim became useless. Some reason it remained 'Balanced.' Arazu needs a boost? Please. If I'd flown it I probably would, can't really argument about something you know nothing about can you? Quote: This tbh. As a lachesis pilot. I'd say the problem with damps isn't that they arn't that effective, it's that they can't reach or don't work reliably on targets that should be the most vulnerable to them. Would really like to see that rather useless 5% Assault missle ROF changed to a damp optimal bonus 20/15/10% per level or something, because lets face it, you're not going to be doing much dps anyway, and there are far better ships at doing damage anyway. the 5% hybrid damage from the celestis hull is also quite meh. A Falloff bonus, or a second optimal bonus would really make this ship worth flying again. I like this idea, however I like the ROF bonus more then the hybrid dmg bonus, so I rather have the hybrid bonus go and have a range bonus. any range bonus would be nice but to fill the role as a anti sniper ship should have 20% range bonus atleast, maybe coupled with slight increase to modules. So at max skills you get a 90+90 range, 50% effectiveness at 180km, enough to keep a few snipers out of a fight. Something tells me thats not the way CCP wants to go with dampeners though. The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)

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