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ForkInTheEye Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 23:29:00 - [151] Originally by: torN Deception Go back to the drawing board on titans, strip out the DDD, turn it into something like the moving station it was originally supposed to be. I don't think there's anything wrong with a superweapon but just a supersized smartbomb is a lazy, uncreative solution. Why not extrapolate a more powerful version of each races "signature" weapon? The Amarr titan could have a giant ***** laser that does a ton of damage. Let's say, for example, it fires for a minute or two or whatever. You can target an enemy, fire, wait for it to kill something, then retarget another enemy and the laser will swing over and continue firing on that enemy. You can keep doing this till the capacitor for the laser runs out. Then it recharges. Wait x amount of time. Rinse. Repeat. The Caldari titan shoots a gigantic, **-off torpedo with a big blast radius. You can probably do similar themed weapons for the other races (rapid fire rail gun for gallente, giant artillery shell for min).
Saldoro Disco Biscuits New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.03.10 23:48:00 - [152] I think most people will agree that Titans aren't the problem. They can be killed even when the double Doomsday a fleet (hello Oort). I think most people will agree Cyno Jammers aren't the problem. They can be taken down although it might cost you a T1 battleship fleet. The problem lies in the combination of both (although there is no problem if the system is attacked when no Titans are online and no, BoB doesn't have 24/7 Titan coverage). Your enemy has many CynoJammed systems and they can't have a Titan in each one. Disallowing a Titan from using a Jump Bridge means that if you suprise attack a system that has no Titans in it the defender can't get a Titan in. This is one solution. Another more drastic yet simple soluition is a simple game mechanic. Do not allow a Titan to warp on grid with a Cyno Jammer. Jammers stay the same, Titans stay the same and never the twain shall meet. ---- Disco Biscuits, Baby!
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.10 23:55:00 - [153] The titan "doomsday" could have been so much more creative though. How about making doomsdays an are of EFFECT weapon, that last as long as their cap will... Amarr - All ships in range cease to regenerate cap for the duration of the doomsday. Caldari - Jams all ships for the duration. Gallente - Removes all hp resistances from ships within range for the duration. Minmatar - Scrambles all ships (including super capitals) for the duration. (Whether or not this would also affect your own gang I'm undecided on, I'd tend to say no (otherwise where's the advantage?) but I'm sure there are benefits the other way, too.) Titans, ofc, would be completely immune to all of these affects. You can even take it further, by making it so that the passive affects of the titan (cap regen, armor hp, sig radius, shield hp) only work when the titan is within, say, 100m km of the gang. It still makes them AWESOME platforms, but it changes the ability to one or two shot a fleet down a little bit. Of course, fix the lag please, thanks, because whilst we're unable to do 600 in a system I'd much rather keep the doomsday as it is as otherwise it's IMPOSSIBLE to clear enough people out of a system to be able to do ANYTHING. (and gosh, the code for this is probably already in the database (hi bombs).) Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:01:00 - [154] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Titans have been a stupid idea since day one. Early ideas on what a titan was going to be was quite different than what hit tranquility. The devs where talking about a huge moveable station with lots of industrial roles. More like a mobile base that corporations could operate out of. At day 1 it was quite a good idea. . you'll never jump alone
Neuraxis Aeon Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:08:00 - [155] Well how about instead of the lag blob and all that we settle wars doing alliance torny style fights. Alliance A wants to attack Alliance B they pick the first system that want to fight for and do an torny style fight win takes system? You could go though each system that an alliance holds and fight like this? Sounds like fun hey =P
Dmitri Vasso Nomads Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:10:00 - [156] I decided to copy paste my own comments from another thread here, as this thread seems to be a little more worthwhile posting in (which is something I rarely do); So what if Titans make it harder to conquer cyno-jammed space? So what if they're overpowered? These ships cost around 50-60 billion isk to produce, they should be good for something. So what if a single alliance has 5 or more of them. They've worked hard to acquire those Titans, and probably deserve them. Having them just means they're able to better protect their space from hostiles, thus making it more viable to hold space, as you need to worry even less about annoying invaders. I believe thats the whole point of being the stronger force - not having to worry about 'lesser' alliances? In effect this just means invading forces have to sacrifice large portions of their fleets, or even use multiple fleets to conquer these so-called 'unconquerable' systems. It's a rather medieval way of doing things, really. Back in the 'dark ages', when invaders had to conquer castles et al, they'd throw wave upon wave of proud warriors at the wall untill they where finally breached. It was just a question of whether the sacrifice was worth it. Though, this could of course mean a stagnation of the entire universe at some point, when everything is cyno-jammed and each system is guarded by their own respectable Titan. I for one enjoyed the old classic 'Clash of the Titans' ;)
Raznarok Invicta.	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:22:00 - [157] This is the best thread on COAD in ages. Not so much the subject, but the change from smacking is most refreshing. I agree that the Smartbomb, being the end all of weapons is a lazy, crap approach. A cool laser, hybrid or projectile weapon that had to be aimed and fired would have been a bit more sufficient. At least a big MF missile that could explode into hundreds of cruise missiles.
Raznarok Invicta.	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:26:00 - [158] Originally by: Dianabolic The titan "doomsday" could have been so much more creative though. How about making doomsdays an are of EFFECT weapon, that last as long as their cap will... Amarr - All ships in range cease to regenerate cap for the duration of the doomsday. Caldari - Jams all ships for the duration. Gallente - Removes all hp resistances from ships within range for the duration. Minmatar - Scrambles all ships (including super capitals) for the duration. Of course, fix the lag please, thanks, because whilst we're unable to do 600 in a system I'd much rather keep the doomsday as it is as otherwise it's IMPOSSIBLE to clear enough people out of a system to be able to do ANYTHING. Amarr/Caldari ideas 4tw, tbh.
Dangerously Cheesey GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:26:00 - [159] Titans should have been to dreadnaughts what motherships are to carriers but it looks like CCP is too proud to admit their mistake at this point.
Kusotarre Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:28:00 - [160] Titans used to be invincible, cause they'd just cyno out. That got fixed, and a few titans died. Now, with 2 or more titans in a system on a regular basis, the double, simultaneous doomsday activation has once again made the titan invincible.

Neuraxis Aeon Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:38:00 - [161] When I first heard about eve and titans I thought these ships would have like 20 high slots and stuff like that something like the GTVA colossus from Free Space 2. How about instead of the titan having a super smart bomb they actually have a lot more high slots then most ships this would still make them very good and killing just not small fleet death machines. Just an idea
LingLeng	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:46:00 - [162]
BrainFugger Minmatar Burnout Syndrome SECUWAY.	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:47:00 - [163] Edited by: BrainFugger on 11/03/2008 00:47:32 Time to stop the BS madness?
aQurio Infamous Technologies	Posted - 2008.03.11 01:14:00 - [164] CCP should leave titans as they are just make it so the DDD cost 5 to 10 billion isk a shot making it cost the alliance major isk if they DD spam a enemy. ----------------------- EVE addiction program needed.
Jin Roh Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.11 02:32:00 - [165] Fyi, every alliance that has significant space can fund a new titan every 2 months, maybe less. Titans alone are not overpowered. When you get more, you reach critical mass and yes its overpowering + cyno jammers. Something will have to change, whether with titans, their cost, or pos wars in general. The current trend is not sustainable for the long term.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2008.03.11 03:02:00 - [166] Originally by: Neuraxis Aeon When I first heard about eve and titans I thought these ships would have like 20 high slots and stuff like that something like the GTVA colossus from Free Space 2. How about instead of the titan having a super smart bomb they actually have a lot more high slots then most ships this would still make them very good and killing just not small fleet death machines. Just an idea this this this this thiiiissss ccp
Chomapuraku Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.03.11 03:03:00 - [167] so far, best ideas: doomsday effect other than damage nerf consecutive DD blasts cyno jammers in sov 4 only how about an overhaul of the drone system? every ship gets one drone, and drone ships only get bonus to that one drone's abilities. carriers/MSes get a handful of drones/fighters with big bonuses. or maybe no fighters for carriers, just boosts to gang members' combat abilities, and maybe overhauled/boosted clone vat bays (with carriers getting some of the love)
Alyx Alyn	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:08:00 - [168] The best suggestion in this thread was simply increasing the mass of a Titan so they can't be jump bridged around. Honestly you could probably go ahead and do this for all cap ships really.
Succubu5 Last Beyond Sands Actual Assault	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:14:00 - [169] make the ddd timer 30 minutes instead of 60 cuz there's not enough whine in this thread
Aya The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.11 05:08:00 - [170] One solution we discussed on TS that might work the best is this: As mentioned before I think not allowing supercaps to jump bridge would be the best option. Say bob wanted to defend NOL with their titans, they would load them all up and Goons/RZR/Ect. could then divert their attention to another cynojammed system. Bob would have the option of repelling the coalition face to face with BS's and not take down the cyno jammer, or remove the cyno jammer allowing both sides to jump in all caps and duke it out. Either way a fair fight is had and the issue of being unable to work around the titan is removed.

Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.03.11 06:37:00 - [171] Originally by: Dianabolic Edited by: Dianabolic on 10/03/2008 16:42:15 Originally by: Malachon Draco Ok so you agree they should be nerfed, all we now need to debate is to what extent No, Malachon, I did not agree that titans, or jammers, needed to be nerfed. I said that the use of the bridge, for a titan (and only a titan) should be nerfed. Well, I dunno what you call it, but making a titan so heavy it cant fit through a jumpportal sure sounds like a nerf to me. Anyway, I didn't start this thread because of cynojammer, lag or the current situation in Delve with regards to Goons ability/inability to take systems from BoB. The reason I started this thread was a few pieces of information, the first was that BoB has 8 titans (which I sorta knew, my last count was at 6 or 7, but hey, whats or 2 more) and then the relative surprise that MM has 5 titans already (I knew they had 1, expected maybe 1 more, but 5 in total...). Then add all the titans RA and AAA have etc etc etc. Now, regardless of all the current stuff going on, extrapolate that for a year, considering that building them gets easier and easier (Sov 4 constellations, once you got the BPO they're not really that expensive, easier to defend the capital shipyard when you already got a few titans in that Sov 4 constellation, value of having more than 1 titan). I would not be surprised to be honest if say MM is aiming to have 10-15 titans by the end of 2008. Same for RA/AAA/BoB. Any Sov 4 alliance who doesn't pour tons of isk into titan construction is stupid at this point. Since all your enemies will be building them. Considering how much isk there is in the game atm, how much money alliances can make off their 0.0 holdings, you're looking at huge numbers of titans everywhere by the end of 2008. Now my question is, is that gonna be good for the game?
Alyx Alyn Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 08:57:00 - [172] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dianabolic Edited by: Dianabolic on 10/03/2008 16:42:15 Originally by: Malachon Draco Ok so you agree they should be nerfed, all we now need to debate is to what extent No, Malachon, I did not agree that titans, or jammers, needed to be nerfed. I said that the use of the bridge, for a titan (and only a titan) should be nerfed. Well, I dunno what you call it, but making a titan so heavy it cant fit through a jumpportal sure sounds like a nerf to me. Anyway, I didn't start this thread because of cynojammer, lag or the current situation in Delve with regards to Goons ability/inability to take systems from BoB. The reason I started this thread was a few pieces of information, the first was that BoB has 8 titans (which I sorta knew, my last count was at 6 or 7, but hey, whats or 2 more) and then the relative surprise that MM has 5 titans already (I knew they had 1, expected maybe 1 more, but 5 in total...). Then add all the titans RA and AAA have etc etc etc. Now, regardless of all the current stuff going on, extrapolate that for a year, considering that building them gets easier and easier (Sov 4 constellations, once you got the BPO they're not really that expensive, easier to defend the capital shipyard when you already got a few titans in that Sov 4 constellation, value of having more than 1 titan). I would not be surprised to be honest if say MM is aiming to have 10-15 titans by the end of 2008. Same for RA/AAA/BoB. Any Sov 4 alliance who doesn't pour tons of isk into titan construction is stupid at this point. Since all your enemies will be building them. Considering how much isk there is in the game atm, how much money alliances can make off their 0.0 holdings, you're looking at huge numbers of titans everywhere by the end of 2008. Now my question is, is that gonna be good for the game? Titans aren't really too broken at the moment though with the exception of the cynojammer/jump bridge combo that allows them to move in and out of a cynojammed system with impunity.
Mickey Mouse Kendar corp	Posted - 2008.03.11 09:29:00 - [173] instead of nerfing cyno jammers or titans mabye we could try another aproach Eve chronicle This is a story about a jove mothership with a high damage beam weapon.. Would it not be cool if the titan could fit some capital weapons and one main weapon that have high damage tracking good enough to hit moving ships down to cruiser size or bc size. And high damage enough to fry a bs even with good tank When fired it have a 5sec (or something) chargeup timer so when titan have you targeted and start blinking red you have a few sec to get the hell out of there. Mabye give the weapon some area damage around the target as well just to keep it dangerous to blobs As it is now titans are only usefull for about 15 sec on the battlefield after that it warp to safe and cloaks, i want to see the titan warp in with the fleet and staying there for the whole fight
Schani Kratnorr Internal Revenue Service	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:59:00 - [174] Perhaps the original post would fare better be in Features & Ideas Discussion. There are valid points. We have yet to see the full impact of a titan blob of 10-20 Titans, and until we do, I'd be weary of changing anything further. It's all well and good that the cynojammer+titan combo appears unbeatable, but is it really?
dizzycow Amarr No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:31:00 - [175] In my opinion its importent not to nerf 1-2 titans. Having 1 or 2 titans is still possible for a sniper bs to tank, but it gives the defender the posibility to setup their bs better than the attacker. 3 titans are totaly diffrent from 2 titans, I cant see how you can tank 3 titans in a bs and still have a snipper setup. Personly I have only seen one solution to this problem in here and that is to limit the numbers of dd that can be fired off in one system. Make 2 DD during 60 minute maximum. For each DD the timer is resetted. _________________ "Ask the people of Carthage if violence never solved anything"
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:33:00 - [176] Yup one or two shots of the DDD per grid or system per hour no matter how many titans you have should sort out the multiple titan spams no problem.
Eaiaden Minmatar The Knighthawks Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:53:00 - [177] Arf common guys, offcourse there shouldent be a limit on DD pr systems in a limited time frame, the alliances that have this many titans have spent huge amounts of isk and resources in getting theese behemoths, and earned the right to be tough to get rid off. Its the nature of the game, no matter how big and mean CCP makes the new ships, sooner or later they will be abundant, and make even the powerfull carriers and dreads look weak, just how all MMORPG's are, they evolve. Originally by: Sean Faust The Typhoon is an oddity. It is EXTREMELY versatile and can be fit just about any way you can imagine.
Kafe Kuvarica	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:57:00 - [178] The whining squad keep forgeting that for building titan u need to have investment of 100 bil (titan BPO, set of comp BPOs, mins for it) and add 10-20-30 bill for skills and fitting. On top of that u need to do literaly hundreds of freighter runs in 0.0. After nerfing DDing on remote cyno, I think that balance of titan worth related to titan usefullness is ok. I agree that its hard to take cynojammed system with 2+ titans with it, but its not impossible. If your alliance/s is/are not able to do it then you should maybe try harder instead of whining on CAOD.
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:06:00 - [179] Holy crap you guys are dumb, the problem isn't titans it's the ability to use a capital fleet without having to worry about any enemy capital fleet. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
Rudi Storm SGL	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:16:00 - [180] The prospect of 4 titans firing off DDs is just silly. Something has to be changed. I would not go so far out to nerf titans ... but would rather see a special bread of cap disabling BS that would need almost the same skills to fly as a capital ship. Some sort of a BS sized vessel that would have a special resists against all 4 kinds of energy emission weapons (DDs or Smartbombs) at would at the same time have a special only on Titans usable Cap Neutralizer (with bonus). Points: -takes skill to fly one and it should be very expensive to buy/fly one -BS sized ship so no problem getting it into a cynojammer system -specialized and therefore only a one trick pony (you know why its there) -should fight the capitals where it hurts the most -> CAP NO CAP = NO CYNO = NO DD But the ship would still be vulnerable to normal weapons and thus not unbeatable. They would offer the attackers a chance to render Titan/Cap blob useless.



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