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A modest proposal

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Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 15:58:00 - [1] Having been out of power for a few days, and examining our situation with a more objective look, I have a recommendation that a lot of goons are going to hate. Before I begin, let me just say something: this isn't me being emo. This isn't me being melodramatic or pessimistic or depressed. My finals are over, I'm getting happily married, starting my dream job now, and I only play a little Eve as it is. I'm just giving this advice but that's my new role: advisor. I don't make anyone do anything, I can just recommend and let them make up their own minds, and I figure that Mittani can just lock this thread if he hates it so here goes: We should evacuate absolutely everything we can out of conquerable space, sell it for corp funds or mothball it for the future, and go live in NPC space once again. ------------- "What the christ what are you talking about**got?" you say. Well, let me explain my rationale. I believe that the following facts are not in dispute: 1) Capital ships are the new battleships in fleet combat 2) Without considering support fleets, Whoever has way more capital ships present at a battle than the other side is almost certainly going to win that fleet fight. 3) You need more POSs than the other side to keep Sov and thus control over station systems. 4) You can only avoid fleet combat over POSs by timing stront so long as you have more POSs than the other guy and can block the rest of the moons in a system. Now let me advance some more facts that aren't in dispute for anybody who knows GS well: 5) GS/RA/TCF/etc. have far fewer capitals than BoB/Slaves/Allies/etc. 6) As they are now, Titans make almost all support fleets irrelevant. 7) Virtually every one of our station systems has dozens of moons. 8) We do not have the money to spam small offlines on every moon. 9) We certainly do not have the money to spam large deathstars in quantity. 10) BoB/etc. have plenty of money, and they have begun to large POS spam. If you take accept points 1-10, you will soon realize that we are **. Not "**" in the "we are all going to die and MORALE FAILURE CASCADE and BoB are INVINCIBLE", but "**" in the sense that the game is broken to our detriment. Points 1-4 make this game Not Fun. I'm not sure if CCP intentionally designed these balance changes in order to try out and use this war as a guinea pig for improving their game, or if they just didn't realize how **** they made capitals in fleet combat, but in a real sense it doesn't matter. So, I think that there are a couple of things that are going to happen. First, I think that BoB will begin POS spamming our hubs. GoonSwarm will levy a bunch of taxes, and raise a lot of money from donations, but ultimately we either have to empty the entire Titan fund into POS spamming to keep up with BoB, or begin losing hub sov. Second, our combined Coalition shortage of capitals means that we can really only win in non-Euro TZs, so BoB will just time all of their POSs to come out in Euro time. RA and TCF and GS will have a series of great fights... in the US/Russian TZ, and BoB will time stront, and it won't mean because they're not going to ** up their stront timers like the other chump alliances we've killed. And even if they did, they have more money so they can just buy more, and we can't keep 200 larges online for very long. Continued...
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 15:59:00 - [2] Third, given the POS spam, unless we can afford more large POSs than the Alliance, we're ultimately going to lose sov basically everywhere important outside of SP. And then the FTZ will die, our member income will begin to dry up, and we will become concentrated in the remaining full-deathstar systems like KZF, RYC, etc. Fourth, BoB/MC/whoever will park about 3 Titans and 5 motherships between these systems, and basically make them totally unliveable with constant DDs, over and over and over, plus huge swarms of fighters. They'll sit capitals just outside of POSs, and camp every last station we have while they wait for us to ** up and lose some moons to more POS spam. Fifth, the game will go from Not Fun, to "I'm paying $15 a month so that Eve can be balanced like THIS?" and GoonSwarm will begin to lose a lot of players to other games, to boredom, to frustration, and to the general anger that people feel towards CCP for ruining their own game with **** capital . And Sixth, we will end up moving back to Syndicate anyway. So my argument is: skip all of that bull, and just move back to Syndicate now. Take all of our extra towers, hand them to RA so that they can POS spam the systems they own so that they make BoB's life miserable trying to take the last X RA systems. Take all of our portable assets, and jump them to RA space and put them up for sale. Take all of our director hangar items like dread ammo, fighters, fuel, whatever, and dump it right into Nync's lap. Pull down every single last tower in our space, mothball all of them in the stations, tell the FTZ to gtfo, and leave. Let people stay who want to fly with RA, but just get out. Eve has been fun for me when GoonFleet/GoonSwarm had goals and the willpower to achieve those goals. At the moment, we don't have willpower because we don't have realistic goals. You cannot beat somebody at chess when you start with six pawns and a king, and that's what Eve is like right now. We weren't rich before, so we didn't have the cash to make 60 carriers and 60 dreads and 2 Titans. Not even RA is that rich and they (according to BoB) lol 10/10 plexed for months and months. We don't have the money to play SPAM THE POS and we don't have the capitals to play SPAM THE CAPITAL and we don't have the titans to play SPAM THE SUPPORT so there is no reason for us to continue to punish ourselves like this. I think that we should take a break from alliance politics and POS wars until this game is fixed again. It may be a long break, but eventually CCP will pull its head out of its ass and realize that people are refusing to play their alliance warfare simulation because it sucks. In the meantime, we can go back to griefing, to teaching newbies how to live in Syndicate, to laughing like ***s while drunk in 20-30 man gangs, and by turning S-U8 into a hive colony again. Plus it'll make Hoegaarden a brick when 2000 GoonSwarm people show up on his doorstep one day and that's worth the whole effort right there. So, tl;dr: conquerable space, it's really boring right now, go back to Syndicate and become a gigantic terrorist state that does whatever it wants. Better that than sit here and let BoB ****** over DD/Mothership kills night after night as they slowly POS spam all of our space. And in conclusion, ** Goons.
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:00:00 - [3] Get out. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
Grunt Futtoks Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:01:00 - [4] Goons surrender to bob ITT - "We do not ask sheep to be wolves; we, the wolves, do not ask ourselves to be sheep. Sheep can make such rules as happen to suit them--but it's foolishly naive to expect wolves to obey."
Rudi Storm SGL	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:03:00 - [5] Goon-Tears-Online? And you are the same folks killing barges in highsec and telling the carebears to suck it up (Jihad and all that)... Double standards FTW? You guys are loosing e-respect even faster then I thought...
Agmar Game-Over Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:03:00 - [6] Edited by: Agmar on 10/03/2008 16:07:05 Ok, I glanced over it, and point 5 and 6 made me laugh so hard that I defecated in my pants. I was there in F-T.... and that was before M. Corp and MC flip-flopped John Kerry style. Recruiting.
Winters Chill Amarr The Space BorderLine	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:05:00 - [7] On first page of epic goon drama thread. o/ hey guys.
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Yorda Get out. This. A very enjoyable read nonetheless. Even if it is a fakepost. I couldn't have written it better myself! -Dfz -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Nick Curso Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:17:00 - [9] remidial cerca: pre titan nerf? Please do not post pictures of players in your sig - Mitnal
Nekumi Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Dafuzz Originally by: Yorda Get out. This. A very enjoyable read nonetheless. Even if it is a fakepost. I couldn't have written it better myself! -Dfz This probably won't be believed because of my corp ticker but that isn't a fakepost unfortunately. It was written as an alternative to the war we now find ourselves in and I'm sure in the heart of a lot of goons it echoes a lot of the emotions and feelings we all share. I'm kinda sad Anahid decided to drag it into the public forum before it could properly be discussed but some people aren't open to differing opinions.
Proplus Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Nick Curso Edited by: Nick Curso on 10/03/2008 16:18:03 remedial cerca: pre titan nerf? cookie for you
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:20:00 - [12] Originally by: Anahid Brutus I believe that the following facts are not in dispute: 1) Capital ships are the new battleships in fleet combat To a certain extent.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus 2) Without considering support fleets, Whoever has way more capital ships present at a battle than the other side is almost certainly going to win that fleet fight. Kinna a sweeping statement.. prolly you are generally correct, but i wouldnt agree this is 100% true.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus 3) You need more POSs than the other side to keep Sov and thus control over station systems. obviously Originally by: Anahid Brutus 4) You can only avoid fleet combat over POSs by timing stront so long as you have more POSs than the other guy and can block the rest of the moons in a system. It isnt up to the defender to avoid fleet combat, it is the attackers choice.. timing helps obviously, but it is always the attackers choice.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus Now let me advance some more facts that aren't in dispute for anybody who knows GS well: 5) GS/RA/TCF/etc. have far fewer capitals than BoB/Slaves/Allies/etc. I rather doubt this is true.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus 6) As they are now, Titans make almost all support fleets irrelevant. Only true in certain situations Originally by: Anahid Brutus 7) Virtually every one of our station systems has dozens of moons. Only matters when someone attacks you, and since you are mostly allied with 0.0, that isnt likely to be anytime soon Originally by: Anahid Brutus 8) We do not have the money to spam small offlines on every moon. I rather doubt that.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus 9) We certainly do not have the money to spam large deathstars in quantity. not what one of your FC's told me Originally by: Anahid Brutus 10) BoB/etc. have plenty of money, and they have begun to large POS spam. mueh.. wlep? Originally by: Anahid Brutus If you take accept points 1-10 I dont really... _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
Gloomy Gus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:23:00 - [13] If goons are going to eat, first they'll need to make babies. Originally by: JakeNoble well id just like to say kilz is an epic****got
Pyrok3netic vangede	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:23:00 - [14] So... what it basiclly boils down to is that GS and friends have stretched resources to far and cant keep up what a big suprise see you could have made a more modest advance and actually only take what you can afford thus having a bigger fund for more caps and non-caps, the situation which GS have presented it self with is as soon as the attack folds then the most of the south will be ready for the taking by BoB Im not a tactical genius or anything but the way i think it should have been done is not biting the hook that BoB left after the fall of RISE, yes thats right i mentioned them if GS and friends could have kept BoB busy down there, which probably wouldnt happen, but you yourselfes could have ussed BoB's stretched logistics on them selfes and started attacking delve alot earlier forcing BoB to fight on 2 maybe even 3 sides of the universe, then you wouldnt require the same numbers as you are trying to pile into 1 system right now But all this just my 2 bits and would prob not work since BoB planned it all at the BBQ of 1917
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Nekumi This probably won't be believed because of my corp ticker but that isn't a fakepost unfortunately. It was written as an alternative to the war we now find ourselves in and I'm sure in the heart of a lot of goons it echoes a lot of the emotions and feelings we all share. I'm kinda sad Anahid decided to drag it into the public forum before it could properly be discussed but some people aren't open to differing opinions. Actually, I do believe you. I feel your pain, I really do. Some of you good folks have been led down the garden path towards an unclear end. And that is sad. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Wodanonline The Last Resort.	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:25:00 - [16] and you need CAOD to tell your fellow goons
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:33:00 - [17] Edited by: maralt on 10/03/2008 16:35:00 The truth is that we had to suffer through reading all the GOON proclamations about how great they are at 0.0 warfare and how stunningly brilliant they are at diplomacy throughout eve and that they were veritable gods of logistics. The time has come to prove these claims to one and all but instead what do we see, a forum full of pre-threadnaught propaganda about cynojammers and titans. Instead of confident predictions we see GOONS bleating jokingly about the fact they "do not exist" or other oldies and goldies from years ago. Show that you are the logistical, diplomatic and 0.0 warfare geniuses that you have claimed in the past to be or go back down south and be quiet.
xttz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:36:00 - [18] Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 10/03/2008 16:35:00 The truth is that we had to suffer through reading all the GOON proclamations about how great they are at 0.0 warfare and how stunningly brilliant they are at diplomacy throughout eve and that they were veritable gods of logistics. The time has come to prove these claims to one and all but instead what do we see, a forum full of pre-threadnaught propaganda about cynojammers and titans. Instead of confident predictions we see GOONS bleating jokingly about the fact they "do not exist" or other oldies and goldies from years ago. Show that you are the logistical, diplomatic and 0.0 warfare geniuses that you have claimed in the past to be or go back down south and be quiet. Bob will never be allowed to build up in 0.0 again
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:40:00 - [19] Originally by: xttz Bob will never be allowed to build up in 0.0 again Calling it now, DBP spy alt. Thanks, I needed that laugh. I look forward to ya trying to stop us Bring it. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:46:00 - [20] It takes a big man to know when he's been beaten. The only question is whether bob will accept our unconditional surrender and let us live in peace in NPC 0.0
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Celot It takes a big man to know when he's been beaten. The only question is whether bob will accept our unconditional surrender and let us live in peace in NPC 0.0 Have your people contact my people. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:58:00 - [22] Originally by: Celot It takes a big man to know when he's been beaten. The only question is whether bob will accept our unconditional surrender and let us live in peace in NPC 0.0 "Remedial is fat" joke spotted. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
rValdez5987 Amarr Killed In Action The Crimson Federation	Posted - 2008.03.10 17:15:00 - [23] Edited by: rValdez5987 on 10/03/2008 17:15:49 Quote: Bob will never be allowed to build up in 0.0 again Somehow I doubt that you will be able to stop them. Your nap-fest coalition pushed them back, but cant remove them, and is now turning on each other... Its only a matter of time. My views and opinions are my own, not my corp or alliances.
Tumbles North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.03.10 17:46:00 - [24] When do we get to eat the children? ......
Local Her0 Minmatar La Mancha Corp	Posted - 2008.03.10 17:51:00 - [25] sounds like an excellent plan imho
Blank Protection Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.10 17:55:00 - [26] Nice post tbh and much truth in it. POS Warfare is indead bloody bloody boring,cost billion`s of ISK and it makes ppl to leave sooner or later to go back to smaller corps and do the old fashion PvP again. But if it comes to the money ( ISK ) i never ever have understand where BoB gets his endless money from. Goonswarm has far over 5000 members and is the biggest Alliance in game. That makes it hard to believe they running out of cash. But beside the cash thing BoB will never be defeated never ever. Tbh i pulled back from this crazy Anti BoB POS Warfare madness and i dont regret it a single moment. Finally Eve has become a game for me again and not a 2th job. Goodluck fighting BoB, but it is pointless and a waste of cash.
Ethen Bejorn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.03.10 17:56:00 - [27] I think it is a good idea.
milinkoee Bastage Incorporated THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.10 17:58:00 - [28] What, no baby eating? Bastage, Inc. Worst Pirates Ever!!!
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2008.03.10 18:10:00 - [29] Lacks baby eating. ---------------- Originally by: "Cyberus" cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.
The Hooch Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.10 18:46:00 - [30] My goodness, a Goon with a brain and skills to express real thoughts... whats next a BoB - Goons NAP? Yikes! Hooch Concord punishes people, it does not protect them
The Hooch Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.10 18:52:00 - [31] Originally by: xttz Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 10/03/2008 16:35:00 The truth is that we had to suffer through reading all the GOON proclamations about how great they are at 0.0 warfare and how stunningly brilliant they are at diplomacy throughout eve and that they were veritable gods of logistics. The time has come to prove these claims to one and all but instead what do we see, a forum full of pre-threadnaught propaganda about cynojammers and titans. Instead of confident predictions we see GOONS bleating jokingly about the fact they "do not exist" or other oldies and goldies from years ago. Show that you are the logistical, diplomatic and 0.0 warfare geniuses that you have claimed in the past to be or go back down south and be quiet. Bob will never be allowed to build up in 0.0 again Yeah, right. You really think that scores will not be settled beginning soon? You have been out played, out planned, and out fought. Take it like a man... Just who is going to stop them? Concord punishes people, it does not protect them
Fire Hawk Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:02:00 - [32] Originally by: Anahid Brutus Fifth, the game will go from Not Fun, to "I'm paying $15 a month so that Eve can be balanced like THIS?" and GoonSwarm will begin to lose a lot of players to other games, to boredom, to frustration, and to the general anger that people feel towards CCP for ruining their own game with ****** capital . There you go... Look Goons are not the only entity in eve and fact is you are the only one who is spamming the forum with a balance issue. Come on. Get out. DICE French Wing** ___ Fear the french touch.
Spoon Thumb Caldari Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:09:00 - [33] No offense to either side, but c'mmon goons, finish the job! If you hit a roadblock, find a way around, switch tactics, try some out of the box stuff (and I don't mean hacking their forums..). Surely you can't be out of options conmpletely Though the POS stuff, I'm really feeling for you there. Refuelling POS has to be the #1 cause of burnout in Eve IMO. Khaldari khanidpublic: RP channel for Kingdom loyalists Recruiting
Orange Species Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:14:00 - [34] :words: -------------
Vahl Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:15:00 - [35] Wow, some of you are just so easy to troll. Seriously, it almost takes the fun out of doing it. _________________________________________________________ ==REDSWARM FEDERATION== ...because we hate your f**king guts.
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:18:00 - [36] Originally by: Vahl Wow, some of you are just so easy to troll. Seriously, it almost takes the fun out of doing it. I was really hoping he'd release this on a non-GS alt and say it was a directorate leak. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:23:00 - [37] die in NOL more whine less on the forum. Its all you goons are good for on your own. - - Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345
Yggdrassill Yeltsin The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:23:00 - [38] lol
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:25:00 - [39] Originally by: Omega Man die in NOL more whine less on the forum. Its all you goons are good for on your own. Mmmm, your tears are delicious. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:09:00 - [40] Originally by: Agmar Edited by: Agmar on 10/03/2008 16:07:05 Ok, I glanced over it, and point 5 and 6 made me laugh so hard that I defecated in my pants. I was there in F-T.... and that was before M. Corp and MC flip-flopped John Kerry style. No cookies for you. EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:10:00 - [41] Originally by: Vahl Wow, some of you are just so easy to troll. Seriously, it almost takes the fun out of doing it. Sush. EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:23:00 - [42] MMMMMM babies! Oh....wait.... Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:19:00 - [43] Originally by: thoth foc Originally by: Anahid Brutus I believe that the following facts are not in dispute: 1) Capital ships are the new battleships in fleet combat To a certain extent.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus 2) Without considering support fleets, Whoever has way more capital ships present at a battle than the other side is almost certainly going to win that fleet fight. Kinna a sweeping statement.. prolly you are generally correct, but i wouldnt agree this is 100% true.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus 3) You need more POSs than the other side to keep Sov and thus control over station systems. obviously Originally by: Anahid Brutus 4) You can only avoid fleet combat over POSs by timing stront so long as you have more POSs than the other guy and can block the rest of the moons in a system. It isnt up to the defender to avoid fleet combat, it is the attackers choice.. timing helps obviously, but it is always the attackers choice.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus Now let me advance some more facts that aren't in dispute for anybody who knows GS well: 5) GS/RA/TCF/etc. have far fewer capitals than BoB/Slaves/Allies/etc. I rather doubt this is true.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus 6) As they are now, Titans make almost all support fleets irrelevant. Only true in certain situations Originally by: Anahid Brutus 7) Virtually every one of our station systems has dozens of moons. Only matters when someone attacks you, and since you are mostly allied with 0.0, that isnt likely to be anytime soon Originally by: Anahid Brutus 8) We do not have the money to spam small offlines on every moon. I rather doubt that.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus 9) We certainly do not have the money to spam large deathstars in quantity. not what one of your FC's told me Originally by: Anahid Brutus 10) BoB/etc. have plenty of money, and they have begun to large POS spam. mueh.. wlep? Originally by: Anahid Brutus If you take accept points 1-10 I dont really... hmmmmmmm good points m8 you've changed my opinion :)
Seamus O'Malley Veni Vidi Vici. XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:29:00 - [44] I salute thee, dear sir
Hitme Harder HERRO KITTY	Posted - 2008.03.10 23:00:00 - [45] Edited by: Hitme Harder on 10/03/2008 23:01:24 Originally by: Dafuzz Originally by: xttz Bob will never be allowed to build up in 0.0 again Calling it now, DBP spy alt. Thanks, I needed that laugh. I look forward to ya trying to stop us Bring it. Did you just get trolled hard or did I just get trolled hard? AREN'T THEY ADORABLE?
Bonefish O'Hallahan GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:00:00 - [46] that's meta as ****
Neuraxis Aeon Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:34:00 - [47] If it is true goons have had and still have a good run. I donÆt favor bob or goons, goons are more annoying but I do believe bob where getting to big for their boots. Bob needed someone to show them they arenÆt totally invincible and goons brought the fight. But bob was never really going to make it easy but there is plenty of 0.0 space out there. You can still live in PS and connected system and just keep fighting it out without taking space, there is no reason to move back to syndicate you have worked for the space you currently have why give it up, starting using it to make money I remember the rats in PS being pretty darn cash. While you might not wipe bob out like you original planned you have put a halt to them taking half of eve, and letÆs face even if you did remove them from their space you would have to keep hunting them down for ever to really get rid of them.
Darkrydar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 01:51:00 - [48] Originally by: Agmar flip-flopped John Kerry style. Leave the stupid RL politics out of here. Especially when you don't know what you're talking about. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.03.11 02:19:00 - [49] tl;dr _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/
Dungar Loghoth Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.03.11 02:38:00 - [50] Originally by: thoth foc Originally by: Anahid Brutus I believe that the following facts are not in dispute: 1) Capital ships are the new battleships in fleet combat To a certain extent.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus 2) Without considering support fleets, Whoever has way more capital ships present at a battle than the other side is almost certainly going to win that fleet fight. Kinna a sweeping statement.. prolly you are generally correct, but i wouldnt agree this is 100% true.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus 3) You need more POSs than the other side to keep Sov and thus control over station systems. obviously Originally by: Anahid Brutus 4) You can only avoid fleet combat over POSs by timing stront so long as you have more POSs than the other guy and can block the rest of the moons in a system. It isnt up to the defender to avoid fleet combat, it is the attackers choice.. timing helps obviously, but it is always the attackers choice.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus Now let me advance some more facts that aren't in dispute for anybody who knows GS well: 5) GS/RA/TCF/etc. have far fewer capitals than BoB/Slaves/Allies/etc. I rather doubt this is true.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus 6) As they are now, Titans make almost all support fleets irrelevant. Only true in certain situations Originally by: Anahid Brutus 7) Virtually every one of our station systems has dozens of moons. Only matters when someone attacks you, and since you are mostly allied with 0.0, that isnt likely to be anytime soon Originally by: Anahid Brutus 8) We do not have the money to spam small offlines on every moon. I rather doubt that.. Originally by: Anahid Brutus 9) We certainly do not have the money to spam large deathstars in quantity. not what one of your FC's told me Originally by: Anahid Brutus 10) BoB/etc. have plenty of money, and they have begun to large POS spam. mueh.. wlep? Originally by: Anahid Brutus If you take accept points 1-10 I dont really... you got trolled ---
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 02:57:00 - [51] You know, at first I thought this was a terrible idea for a thread and would get no good replies. Oh lordie how wrong I was
BoB sucks Burning Bush Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.11 03:20:00 - [52] Originally by: Orange Species :words: :reply:
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 03:39:00 - [53] At what point did everybody stop assuming that every goon thread wasn't a troll? This thread is the best thread.
aQurio Infamous Technologies	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:21:00 - [54] And why syndicate? Stain is FAR better NPC space and only a few jumps from a fight with BOB. ----------------------- EVE addiction program needed.
PR0PAGANDA Gallente Raging Emo	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:27:00 - [55] this fight isnt over. i doubt goons or bob really want to stop as its more than likely fun for both other than fueling the pos. best thing that happened to goon was all the lackys falling off. goons depended on them to much. i mean venom? wtf they are horrible. goons and bob should stop the pos fight and just get good roaming fights out of it. let bob start the smack down on mc. everyone get some popcorn and watch as the leaders of mc take extended leaves of absence from eve. I buy t2 building parts. Mail me offers.
s0co	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:32:00 - [56] Instead of these posts regarding pos warfare shouldnt the goons think twice of going on the offence against bob if they cant keep up logistically? Nah you just wanna moan the face of it and make cheap excuses. Shame on you. You just got to laugh at these goonies with these pathetic posts. I mean they must make RA look bad in such a big way. RA 'call a friend' and get rid of these so called pvpers. You would do yourselfs a favour.
dastommy79 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:52:00 - [57] what? I am broke and need isk to get my Thanatos combat ready against RA. All my peeps out there, please donate what you can to this character. boobs [IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/
Onchas Erivvia Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:53:00 - [58] Edited by: Onchas Erivvia on 11/03/2008 04:54:42 Originally by: Stahlregen At what point did everybody stop assuming that every goon thread wasn't a troll? This thread is the best thread. It's obviously a troll. Someone's even pointed out that it's Remedial's "let's throw in the bunk sock" post. Buuuut, who's he trolling? It's not like Goon morale is at a high point right now. Things were damn low before the SOTG. You guys got a week out of it. Your Allies went home, and not just to ride bikes this time. Participation remains extremely low in Goon primetime. You've had more participation with the GeeHad Swarm. Joe B. Goon is starting to get antsy again. Of course Goons are going to run in here (especially directors) and say, "haha troll". But, ya gotta wonder how many of the Swarm who have been saying, "the game sucks now. I had more fun flying around in a tech1 frig or cruiser not caring if I died than I do now having to show up in specific ships at specific times only to sit around in a POS shield for five hours because if my best-named and tech2 fit battleship gets blown up there isn't a free one just sitting at a Ship Maintenance Array for me." Maybe the easiest way to get your point across in the Goon-culture is to take someone else's words and put it up here instead of serious-posting it in the Goon forums to ridicule and scorn. Get some lulz, score some forum warrior cred, but also make the point. Hey, who knows, maybe I'm just getting meta-meta-trolled, but the timing of the post is really, really interesting. One week after the buck-up morale State of the Goonion. One week after the "mother-to-end-all-offensives" where it was supposed to be every Goon and the entire Coalition fell completely on its ass. This week nothing but whining about game mechanics -- as if that's the reason why your offensive fell apart. It's just interesting. --- "LOG OFF, LOG OFF, EVERYONE LOG THE F--- OFF NOW" - Suas, GoonSwarm Fleet Commander Sunday January 27, 2008 during a fleet fight with BoB in system QY6-RK, approximately 21:55 EVT
CootBoot GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 06:03:00 - [59] no way i'm reading that
Zorlag Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 06:07:00 - [60] I'm still trying to figure out who claimed we were good at 0.0 warfare, we're absolutely terrible
Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2008.03.11 06:20:00 - [61] i didnt bother reading the rest of the replies. but is it me or is the OP whining about how the RSF is now losing to BoB? If you cant afford sustained action in delve, then gtfo, tbqh. ____________________________________________ Originally by: Thargat They should change the name of CAOD to EvE Zoo. Please to not feed the animals.
Yaay Dum Spiro Spero	Posted - 2008.03.11 06:36:00 - [62] Edited by: Yaay on 11/03/2008 06:43:45 Edited by: Yaay on 11/03/2008 06:38:09 Quite honestly, this may be the first goon I've ever agreed with. 0.0 is broken and it's burning everyone involved out. It's a lot of why you see people either already leaving the great war, never entering the great war, or getting ready to leave the remaining players in this war for something new. Hell, it's why I'm ramping up to take my first contract in my new venture. For those who were there, 25s/Fat for an entire month with a few blobbing for the sake of blobbing exceptions was about the best this game has ever seen. Virtually all fights were in numbers of 100 or less on either side and capital warfare was the exception not the rule. Some will argue differently, but I think most will agree that it was a blast. Before this, everyone got burned out in Feyth. Both sides. It's not fun to POS spam at the levels both sides saw. It's not fun to throw 500 v 300s out and leave the fight up to lag. I will say though that there is 1 real exception to what the Goons say. They brought this on themselves. There were a few flashes of brilliance in their strategy, but in the end, they rellied on blob mechanics that burned them out just as it burned me and everyone else out. BoB wasn't the problem, they were the response. I know that with my fleets at the very least, It wasn't about numbers I had, I just wanted the good fight. It's when it stopped being about the good fights that I knew I had to get out. Like it or not Goons, maybe it's time to take a look at your play style in general. That sentiment goes really to everyone in 0.0. Stop with this tech 1 spam bull, stop with this 2 to 1 ratio crap, stop hiding in stations and realize that it's a game again. FFS pvp is supposed to be about fun, quit taking it out of the game. Honestly I don't believe this guy is complaining about any outcome this war may see. I think he just wants to see this game return to some normalcy. I think he just wants to renergizer himself like a lot of others are doing. I've had many a private chat with a lot of big names in this game, and it's a shame that at the current rate, they wont be around much longer. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=619019IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID
Brother Theos Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.11 07:12:00 - [63] Originally by: Anahid Brutus We should evacuate absolutely everything we can out of conquerable space, sell it for corp funds or mothball it for the future, and go live in NPC space once again. I'm calling it - Fake Post!
Proplus Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 07:37:00 - [64] Originally by: Yaay nice response while I agree this is still remedial we are talking about
Mostly Amazing Gallente Mostly Amazing Corp	Posted - 2008.03.11 08:01:00 - [65] You guys should considder moving to Geminate now that Tri has pretty much won the isk war with roadkill. -------------- I R Not Completely Amazing, But I R Mostly Amazing
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.11 08:32:00 - [66] I feel like I've read this a long long time ago... --- Join BH-DL Skills
Faekurias Federation Fleet Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2008.03.11 09:20:00 - [67] He said mothball, hurrhurr durr. Sig locked, abuse of use - for more information mail [email protected]
Karanth Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 09:28:00 - [68] Originally by: BoB sucks Originally by: Orange Species :words: :reply: :rebuttal: "Current Earth-Destruction Status"
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 09:53:00 - [69] Originally by: Martin VanBuren You know, at first I thought this was a terrible idea for a thread and would get no good replies. Oh lordie how wrong I was and they're still coming, its like the bob guys are having some doubts and need to air them in the open :<
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.11 09:58:00 - [70] Originally by: Anahid Brutus Originally by: Martin VanBuren You know, at first I thought this was a terrible idea for a thread and would get no good replies. Oh lordie how wrong I was and they're still coming, its like the bob guys are having some doubts and need to air them in the open :< You need to fix your filter cos its mostly goons as a percentage posting on this thread bud. Does that mean your doubts are greater than theirs?.
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:08:00 - [71] Originally by: maralt Originally by: Anahid Brutus Originally by: Martin VanBuren You know, at first I thought this was a terrible idea for a thread and would get no good replies. Oh lordie how wrong I was and they're still coming, its like the bob guys are having some doubts and need to air them in the open :< You need to fix your filter cos its mostly goons as a percentage posting on this thread bud. Does that mean your doubts are greater than theirs?. hmmmmmmmmmm good point
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:17:00 - [72] There is a lot of good stuff in those opening posts. And I donÆt just mean on the level of the ôGoonswarm is failing go Bob!ö (dramabomb) variety. Its actually a very insightful and honest post about some significant issues with the alliance warfare game that everyone is eventually going to have to grapple with (if you ever one day might find yourselves attacking a sitting territorial power or defending against such). The reality is that POS warfare in 0.0 is not a game, it IS a job. It is very very hard and extremely time-consuming and definitely exactly the same kind of timesink and raw-energy grind that eve once upon a time the game resolutely rejected in favour of offline training and advanced economic options for budding entrepreneurs. These days its not about spaceships and larking about and shooting beams of light at each other and laughing about the results, itÆs about co-opting many people into gangs at strange periods of the night and shooting inanimate objects while hauling the parts for other inanimate objects into place to hopefully replace those you are painfully removing at the cost to your own sanity. ItÆs some kind of dreadful ôproject-crunch cubicle-jockey non-paid overtime work or everyone is getting firedö endeavour that probably ranks up there with a trip to a competent dominatrix on the ambiguous pain/pleasure scale of our postmodern times. But letÆs be clear about this. Now that Goonswarm have discovered for themselves that the high end of territorial warfare doesnÆt work (or doesnÆt work for them) or perhaps ôdoesnÆt workö without huge amounts of commitment and isk and organisation and sacrifice and everything else. Lets understand that this problem scales down across every kind of 0.0 territorial dispute possible in the current state of eve ... any old alliance can put up pos, claim sovereignty 3 by default, arrange jump bridges, defend its jammers with capitals while the enemy is forced to shoot a thing with millions of hit points under withering deathstar POS fire only to see a replacement going up at another POS 30mins after the first one drops. Its just Eve at the moment. Its how it works. And if 5000 goons are finding this hard/impossible going imagine how daunting and hopeless this task looks to any smaller alliance facing exactly the same situation at Cyno Jammer POSÆs across the face of Eve. Reality is that Cyno-jammers and POS mechanics are terrible û stepping aside from all partisan sympathies at the moment (of course I want the Goons to lose, I want Bob to win, I want the coalition to fold and destroy itself) but I canÆt in any sort of conscience say other than that CCP need to revisit territorial warfare with dispatch and rebalance matters in favour of attackers and remove change some of the more abusive abilities of defending equipment before they do leech all the will to fight from anyone thinking to make an offensive in 0.0 at all. I respect what BoB have done in surviving this coalition offensive, everyone knows how ludicrously outnumbered, ridiculously outgunned, how frankly immense were the odds brought against them and pretty much nobody expected them to survive let alone prosper in this environment and it is a huge accomplishment û they are committed, talented and immensely professional players who love this game, but possibly the greatest thing they have achieved in the history of Eve is comprehensively demonstrating to the developers one and for all that the alliance warfare model in 0.0 based on sovereignty and defence bonuses from unmanned structure deployment is ultimately broken and ônot fun.ö "I might not have meant anything by it"
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:20:00 - [73] If the legacy of the coalition failure in Delve brings the developers to properly visit cyno jammer abilities, sovereignty systems, POS function, and the role of smaller combat in alliance ambitions then it will be their greatest achievement thus far in my opinion. And what Bob have done to the Goons in Delve will be what RA and the rest will do to any other aggressors in times to come. Defensive equipment is more powerful than offensive equipment, fixed infrastructure is massively more powerful than mobile infrastructure û somewhere along the way the POS/Sovereignty developers slipped control and went wild in the laboratories and dreamed up the cyno-jammer which is far and away the worst most game-breaking, content-denying, cheesy auto/win frustration-brewing excuse to actually defending oneÆs own claimed space that eve has ever seen. All conquerable 0.0 will be covered with these things û all capital travel will be by bridges and no sort of tactical surprise will be possible û all because a module is too cheap, too powerful, and too pervasive in its incredible impact on the process of 0.0 warfare. DonÆt blame titans û blame the module that anyone and his dog can buy off the market and anchor at a ridiculously easy to achieve sovereignty 3 level and deny even the appearance of a level playing field to all aggressors. If these things didnÆt exist (or were properly balanced and limited in deployment in some realistic fashion) weÆd right now be seeing climatic capital ship battles in delve with the coalition spending its isk reserves in a desperate and passionate fight to the death against the Bob capital fleet. (And if they didnÆt then weÆd see the Bob capital fleet hitting their home stations and forcing one). WeÆd see an apocalypse of ISK, weÆd see a slaughter of resources û weÆd see dreadnaughts burning, titanÆs exploding, carriers crushed and scattered and the financial impact of the ôgreat warö would impact mineral and equipment costs across the whole of eve. WeÆd see (in short) a proper brutal conclusion to a war between hated rivals and one side or the other would lose everything in a storm of eviscerating financial massacre. (Thats what wars in eve used to be like, believe me). Instead weÆre going to see the ôGreat Warö peter out as both sides retreat from the horrible spectre of POS/Sovereignty warfare because nobody wants to fight a big capital engagement when they could be fighting capitals vs non-capitals in cyno-jammed systems. (if its possible to claim terrain advantage and fight a ludicrous mis-match why would it be otherwise?) Bob vs the Coalition should have been the twilight of the gods, there should have been a battlefield of 200 capital wrecks and multiple dead titans and players quitting the game from the utter depth of financial ruin the conflict brought to them. Instead weÆre going to see some forum trolling, some towers get put up/reinforced and anyone quitting the game is going to do it because they are convinced the alliance territorial warfare game sucks û not because they lost at it. Cyno Jammers have cost us the drama of the great war. They need to go. "I might not have meant anything by it"
Schani Kratnorr Internal Revenue Service	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:22:00 - [74] Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 11/03/2008 11:22:56 Originally by: Jade Constantine Actual content! Best post in CAOD for 4-5 months, and I mean it! About time someone took a step away from all the BullCrap, stated things from a gamers perspective.
Spike Spiegle Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:13:00 - [75] YAY more words from Jade... So many people now complain that small alliances cant take space with all the cyno jammers around. How do you propose that a small group would ever be able to deffend space against a larger force without them? BoB have pretty much lost any system that isnt jammed proving that they do help the smaller groups, just to deffend against a bigger force not attack. Which makes alot of sence when you thnk of the time and ISK sent in making the space secure in the first place. My only problem with the jammers is that they can just be shot down and put back up. Im sure if Star Faction held space you would be thinking twice about complaining, but you dont so guess we will have to put up with you for a while.
Space Harrier Minmatar Roman Holiday	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:21:00 - [76] In the time it took me to read this post, BoB has earned approximately 4.3 billion ISK in revenue.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:31:00 - [77] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 11/03/2008 12:34:41 Originally by: Spike Spiegle So many people now complain that small alliances cant take space with all the cyno jammers around. Are you saying they are wrong? Or are you saying its possible to move capital ships / blackops around in 0.0 past the current wreath of cyno jammers that are mindlessly easy to deploy and require no real upkeep or oversight? Quote: How do you propose that a small group would ever be able to defend space against a larger force without them? Its an irrelevant question. If a smaller force could actually damage the holdings of a larger force they gain a military currency that can be traded for negotiation and diplomacy (or ongoing guerrilla disruption) What is good for the goose is good for the gander - but at the moment the issue is that defense has a huge advantage in any case - the "larger" force you mention needs to leave a couple of pos gunners and a capital ship or two in a cyno jammed system to make it secure. The "smaller" force cannot counterattack and so loses any ability to make reversals or gain tactical surprise. Quote: BoB have pretty much lost any system that isnt jammed proving that they do help the smaller groups, just to deffend against a bigger force not attack. Which makes alot of sence when you thnk of the time and ISK sent in making the space secure in the first place. My only problem with the jammers is that they can just be shot down and put back up. The time and effort argument is bunkum. Given the cost of battleships/dreadnaughts required to assault jammers/POS the defender is paying absolute peanuts compared to the price the defender is paying to gain near absolute security in most scales of conflict in 0.0. Your problem Spike is that you are seeing this whole issue in the light of the Bob vs Coalition war and you are ignoring the general impact on all other conflicts in 0.0 between different scales of organization. Quote: Im sure if Star Faction held space you would be thinking twice about complaining, but you dont so guess we will have to put up with you for a while. As I've stated already, I want the Coalition to lose. By your logic I should right now be keeping my mouth shut and enjoying the sight of Goons/coalition crying about the impenetrable Delve fortifications shouldn't I? And yet I'm speaking against the very mechanics that mean you cannot win in Delve. Does that compute somehow? Or maybe just maybe I'm concerned about the future gameplay and enjoyable conflict in Eve online above my personal political interests. You know, as a player of an online game rather than brainwashed warrior in e-conflicts and "great war" shenanigans... Step aside from your own partisan blinders for a moment and you'll see the problem. Look at the issues and not the participants and personalities and it will do wonders for your objectivity and judgment. "I might not have meant anything by it"
Bobbechk Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:32:00 - [78] Originally by: Anahid Brutus 7) Virtually every one of our station systems has dozens of moons. 8) We do not have the money to spam small offlines on every moon. i cant see how 60m / pos is so hard to afford in the biggest alliance in eve
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:10:00 - [79] Originally by: Bobbechk Originally by: Anahid Brutus 7) Virtually every one of our station systems has dozens of moons. 8) We do not have the money to spam small offlines on every moon. i cant see how 60m / pos is so hard to afford in the biggest alliance in eve Its because 99% of em do nothing but fly the free t1 friggies, noob ships or shuttles in a big blob and have no idea how to actually make isk or play the game to a reasonable standard.
Arthur Miller GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:17:00 - [80] Originally by: Jade Constantine There is a lot of good stuff in those opening posts. And I donÆt just mean on the level of the ôGoonswarm is failing go Bob!ö (dramabomb) variety. Its actually a very insightful and honest post about some significant issues with the alliance warfare game that everyone is eventually going to have to grapple with (if you ever one day might find yourselves attacking a sitting territorial power or defending against such). The reality is that POS warfare in 0.0 is not a game, it IS a job. It is very very hard and extremely time-consuming and definitely exactly the same kind of timesink and raw-energy grind that eve once upon a time the game resolutely rejected in favour of offline training and advanced economic options for budding entrepreneurs. These days its not about spaceships and larking about and shooting beams of light at each other and laughing about the results, itÆs about co-opting many people into gangs at strange periods of the night and shooting inanimate objects while hauling the parts for other inanimate objects into place to hopefully replace those you are painfully removing at the cost to your own sanity. ItÆs some kind of dreadful ôproject-crunch cubicle-jockey non-paid overtime work or everyone is getting firedö endeavour that probably ranks up there with a trip to a competent dominatrix on the ambiguous pain/pleasure scale of our postmodern times. But letÆs be clear about this. Now that Goonswarm have discovered for themselves that the high end of territorial warfare doesnÆt work (or doesnÆt work for them) or perhaps ôdoesnÆt workö without huge amounts of commitment and isk and organisation and sacrifice and everything else. Lets understand that this problem scales down across every kind of 0.0 territorial dispute possible in the current state of eve ... any old alliance can put up pos, claim sovereignty 3 by default, arrange jump bridges, defend its jammers with capitals while the enemy is forced to shoot a thing with millions of hit points under withering deathstar POS fire only to see a replacement going up at another POS 30mins after the first one drops. Its just Eve at the moment. Its how it works. And if 5000 goons are finding this hard/impossible going imagine how daunting and hopeless this task looks to any smaller alliance facing exactly the same situation at Cyno Jammer POSÆs across the face of Eve. Reality is that Cyno-jammers and POS mechanics are terrible û stepping aside from all partisan sympathies at the moment (of course I want the Goons to lose, I want Bob to win, I want the coalition to fold and destroy itself) but I canÆt in any sort of conscience say other than that CCP need to revisit territorial warfare with dispatch and rebalance matters in favour of attackers and remove change some of the more abusive abilities of defending equipment before they do leech all the will to fight from anyone thinking to make an offensive in 0.0 at all. I respect what BoB have done in surviving this coalition offensive, everyone knows how ludicrously outnumbered, ridiculously outgunned, how frankly immense were the odds brought against them and pretty much nobody expected them to survive let alone prosper in this environment and it is a huge accomplishment û they are committed, talented and immensely professional players who love this game, but possibly the greatest thing they have achieved in the history of Eve is comprehensively demonstrating to the developers one and for all that the alliance warfare model in 0.0 based on sovereignty and defence bonuses from unmanned structure deployment is ultimately broken and ônot fun.ö tl;dr
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:50:00 - [81] I really never expected it to be this good. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
Desiderata Fabian GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 14:14:00 - [82] I feel that for once Jade came pretty close to hitting an actually reasonable point, still it was as ever mired in her trademark pomposity and linguistic contortion until it was all but illegible, but you know good try. The Cosmopolite, as with everything, did a better job of making that point mind. Originally by: Jade Constantine There is a lot of good stuff in those opening posts. Oh dear.
Yaay Dum Spiro Spero	Posted - 2008.03.11 14:20:00 - [83] To answer Jade's 2nd post too... Everyone always looks at this war and thinks about obvious exploits. Yet nobody screams about the simple one's like log on traps or mass log off when an entire capital fleet is bubbled in their own POS while it's being destroyed. It's funny if you've ever petitioned about those incidents as you will often see the total understanding and compassion in a GMs response quickly followed by a sorry, can't help. The more vocal Goons tell about their great victories of taking space while losing virtually every major battle. How on Gods green earth does that make sense. How does it make sense that 60 capital pilots can log off at the exact same time during a particular incident and have a GM say it can't be policed as an exploit? If you want to start talking about the ugly of this war on one side, don't forget to look at the ugly on the other. There's always 3 sides to every story, your's, mine and the truth. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=619019IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2008.03.11 14:20:00 - [84] Edited by: Garia666 on 11/03/2008 14:22:02 Edited by: Garia666 on 11/03/2008 14:21:20 whahahhaha losers have excuses winners a plan. these are the first posts which you can tell morale is low on goon side and is falling with the day.. without the support Of RA goons are useless and losing. i hope the whole goon player base desides to quit and go play another game. that way its the best for the rest of us.. and dont come with this kind of crap.. when you guys used every means possible to defeat LV youd idnt hear you gusy saying that what you did was wrong or used faulty game machenics.. Quote: CCP Chronotis Amarr boost is coming in a future dev blog, lets keep this on topic
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 14:23:00 - [85] Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 11/03/2008 14:22:02 Edited by: Garia666 on 11/03/2008 14:21:20 whahahhaha losers have excuses winners a plan. these are the first posts which you can tell morale is low on goon side and is falling with the day.. without the support Of RA goons are useless and losing. i hope the whole goon player base desides to quit and go play another game. that way its the best for the rest of us.. and dont come with this kind of crap.. when you guys used every means possible to defeat LV youd idnt hear you gusy saying that what you did was wrong or used faulty game machenics.. T.H.U.G L.I.F.E Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.03.11 14:32:00 - [86] I'll be honest, I didn't read anything in this thread and replied anyways. _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.11 14:35:00 - [87] I dunno. Try taking them system by system istead of making a B-line to NOL? Just a thought.
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.11 14:37:00 - [88] I approve of this thread, its the ultimate Idiot filter. EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 14:41:00 - [89] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr I dunno. Try taking them system by system istead of making a B-line to NOL? Just a thought. Oh my, look how well informed you are. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 16:14:00 - [90] Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 11/03/2008 14:22:02 Edited by: Garia666 on 11/03/2008 14:21:20 whahahhaha losers have excuses winners a plan. these are the first posts which you can tell morale is low on goon side and is falling with the day.. without the support Of RA goons are useless and losing. i hope the whole goon player base desides to quit and go play another game. that way its the best for the rest of us.. and dont come with this kind of crap.. when you guys used every means possible to defeat LV youd idnt hear you gusy saying that what you did was wrong or used faulty game machenics.. bumpin' in hopes of more of this
NI'shka Delmante Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 17:24:00 - [91] My, my, my what do we have here?
Elliot Reid Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.03.11 18:14:00 - [92] So to sum up the OP. "We failed to destroy BoB despite a very large coalition so this must obviously be because EVE is balanced in BoB's favour and not our own shortcomings." _______________________________________
Kanae Minmatar Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.11 20:25:00 - [93] Did anyone take this seriously? The last "A modest proposal" I read was in high school about the Irish eating thier babies to deal with famine... Either I'm overestimating the OP or he is laughing away reading the replies here.
Darklin Eldaris Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.03.11 20:46:00 - [94] Originally by: Anahid Brutus Fifth, the game will go from Not Fun, to "I'm paying $15 a month so that Eve can be balanced like THIS?" and GoonSwarm will begin to lose a lot of players to other games, to boredom, to frustration, and to the general anger that people feel towards CCP for ruining their own game with ****** capital . And Sixth, we will end up moving back to Syndicate anyway. So my argument is: skip all of that bull, and just move back to Syndicate now. Take all of our extra towers, hand them to RA so that they can POS spam the systems they own so that they make BoB's life miserable trying to take the last X RA systems. Take all of our portable assets, and jump them to RA space and put them up for sale. Take all of our director hangar items like dread ammo, fighters, fuel, whatever, and dump it right into Nync's lap. Pull down every single last tower in our space, mothball all of them in the stations, tell the FTZ to gtfo, and leave. Let people stay who want to fly with RA, but just get out. Eve has been fun for me when GoonFleet/GoonSwarm had goals and the willpower to achieve those goals. At the moment, we don't have willpower because we don't have realistic goals. You cannot beat somebody at chess when you start with six pawns and a king, and that's what Eve is like right now. We weren't rich before, so we didn't have the cash to make 60 carriers and 60 dreads and 2 Titans. Not even RA is that rich and they (according to BoB) lol 10/10 plexed for months and months. We don't have the money to play SPAM THE POS and we don't have the capitals to play SPAM THE CAPITAL and we don't have the titans to play SPAM THE SUPPORT so there is no reason for us to continue to punish ourselves like this. I think that we should take a break from alliance politics and POS wars until this game is fixed again. It may be a long break, but eventually CCP will pull its head out of its ass and realize that people are refusing to play their alliance warfare simulation because it sucks. In the meantime, we can go back to griefing, to teaching newbies how to live in Syndicate, to laughing like ***s while drunk in 20-30 man gangs, and by turning S-U8 into a hive colony again. Plus it'll make Hoegaarden a brick when 2000 GoonSwarm people show up on his doorstep one day and that's worth the whole effort right there. So, tl;dr: conquerable space, it's really boring right now, go back to Syndicate and become a gigantic terrorist state that does whatever it wants. Better that than sit here and let BoB ****** over DD/Mothership kills night after night as they slowly POS spam all of our space. And in conclusion, ** Goons. What? You mean getting as many ships as you possibly can into a system in order to lag it out isn't going to work as a tactic after all? You mean talking loads of smack publicly isn't the best way to win a war? Ibis's don't have DDs? I'm so confused, I thought goons were going to dine in NOL or something similar to that. TBH I've watched this thing unfold from afar, and knew all along that you guys would be stopped in your tracks in Delve. It's not because u suck, it's not because you're haxploiters. It's because you are less rich, and less experienced than BoB. You just can't match that yet. It'll be another year before you have the resources you'll need. It's either that or you're gonna need every one of your bajillion allies to hit BoB simultaneously. Failing this you are doomed to failure. It's not because the game is broken, it's because you did not prepare properly given game mechanics. The mechanics have not changed much since your assault began, the only thing that has changed really is that Titans have been nerfed, and cyno-jammers introduced. You can use both of these additions to your advantage, so I don't see any room for a complaint here. Plan better, smack less, and bring less noob ships. You'll have a better chance if you do that.
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 21:05:00 - [95] Originally by: Darklin Eldaris What? You mean getting as many ships as you possibly can into a system in order to lag it out isn't going to work as a tactic after all? You mean talking loads of smack publicly isn't the best way to win a war? Ibis's don't have DDs? I'm so confused, I thought goons were going to dine in NOL or something similar to that. TBH I've watched this thing unfold from afar, and knew all along that you guys would be stopped in your tracks in Delve. It's not because u suck, it's not because you're haxploiters. It's because you are less rich, and less experienced than BoB. You just can't match that yet. It'll be another year before you have the resources you'll need. It's either that or you're gonna need every one of your bajillion allies to hit BoB simultaneously. Failing this you are doomed to failure. It's not because the game is broken, it's because you did not prepare properly given game mechanics. The mechanics have not changed much since your assault began, the only thing that has changed really is that Titans have been nerfed, and cyno-jammers introduced. You can use both of these additions to your advantage, so I don't see any room for a complaint here. Plan better, smack less, and bring less noob ships. You'll have a better chance if you do that. Ahahahahahahahaha Oh god I have to bump this thread just to try and get more replys like this. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
Tarantelita Ragna Rok Corp	Posted - 2008.03.11 22:36:00 - [96] Originally by: Yorda Get out. Yes forum ssamer no1 , get out (you still got something on your face ).
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 22:38:00 - [97] would someone sponsor me into bob? Dafuzz? Perpello? Windsoord Maelstrom? Keeto? I have offered to sponsor each of you into goonfleet when things looked direst for bob, come on and return the favor for your good buddy celot, who is the best
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 22:44:00 - [98] Originally by: Celot would someone sponsor me into bob? Dafuzz? Perpello? Windsoord Maelstrom? Keeto? I have offered to sponsor each of you into goonfleet when things looked direst for bob, come on and return the favor for your good buddy celot, who is the best You would have to bring Frank and Beans with you, Godek too. And can't forget Da Cobra. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.03.11 22:44:00 - [99] Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: thoth foc stuff you got trolled ofc.. this is CAOD after all.. your new here or something? _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.12 01:35:00 - [100] Originally by: thoth foc Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: thoth foc stuff you got trolled ofc.. this is CAOD after all.. your new here or something? hey toth, i wasnt trolling. so that means you just got trolled by dungar
thoth foc	Posted - 2008.03.13 09:37:00 - [101] Originally by: Anahid Brutus Originally by: thoth foc Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: thoth foc stuff you got trolled ofc.. this is CAOD after all.. your new here or something? hey toth, i wasnt trolling. so that means you just got trolled by dungar again.. i'm going with the.. "welp" approach _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
YapYup	Posted - 2008.03.13 11:38:00 - [102] Ive not read through the 4 pages b4 me here & maybe someone has posted the same view but, if goons did just that & overcame their need to kill BOB it would indeed be the biggest shake up in EVE for a long old time. IMO of course.
Dealership	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:50:00 - [103] Originally by: YapYup Ive not read through the 4 pages b4 me here & maybe someone has posted the same view but, if goons did just that & overcame their need to kill BOB it would indeed be the biggest shake up in EVE for a long old time. IMO of course. i just do not think this will happen.intresting goon thread op but def trool bait.grrrrr you got me
La FemmeFatal	Posted - 2008.03.13 13:49:00 - [104] Edited by: La FemmeFatal on 13/03/2008 13:51:43 lol this one is going to be great. although i will prob lose interest after the 13 page and quotes quoting a quote again quoting a quote etc. it was obvious goons and co was going to waste all there manpower and resources in this campaign as its what bob had seen a little off when they back off and went back. they knew if they continued pushing they would be too stretched and it would be too costly. they new this before they fell prey to it, goons and co should have really read between the lines when BOB did this. Can only think that Goons and co are not to bright or they where disillusioned by BOB actions thinking they where in full retreat rather than a tactical retreat to pull goons and co further into there net BOB must have known goons and go would go after them like shark to blood and hoping just for this moment. now they will finally lash out and take out goons and co with ease
Anahid Brutus	Posted - 2008.03.13 15:55:00 - [105] Originally by: La FemmeFatal BOB must have known goons and go would go after them like shark to blood and hoping just for this moment. now they will finally lash out and take out goons and co with ease guys, we've been led into a trap :<
AltBier	Posted - 2008.03.13 17:03:00 - [106] Originally by: Jade Constantine ItÆs some kind of dreadful ôproject-crunch cubicle-jockey non-paid overtime work or everyone is getting firedö endeavour that probably ranks up there with a trip to a competent dominatrix on the ambiguous pain/pleasure scale of our postmodern times. Is that too long for a sig?
roudaaja2	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:09:00 - [107] fail thread is fail thread
ChoppinBrocolli	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:26:00 - [108] bwahahaha
Tabouli	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:38:00 - [109] Originally by: La FemmeFatal Edited by: La FemmeFatal on 13/03/2008 13:51:43 lol this one is going to be great. although i will prob lose interest after the 13 page and quotes quoting a quote again quoting a quote etc. it was obvious goons and co was going to waste all there manpower and resources in this campaign as its what bob had seen a little off when they back off and went back. they knew if they continued pushing they would be too stretched and it would be too costly. they new this before they fell prey to it, goons and co should have really read between the lines when BOB did this. Can only think that Goons and co are not to bright or they where disillusioned by BOB actions thinking they where in full retreat rather than a tactical retreat to pull goons and co further into there net BOB must have known goons and go would go after them like shark to blood and hoping just for this moment. now they will finally lash out and take out goons and co with ease is the shark wounded
Chomapuraku	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:49:00 - [110] i propose both bob and goons vanish off of the face of EVE, but that aint happenin either. ****'s tough all over
CrispyKritters	Posted - 2008.03.14 04:03:00 - [111] Originally by: Chomapuraku i propose both bob and goons vanish off of the face of EVE, but that aint happenin either. ****'s tough all over Then two other alliances would go to war and COAD would be back to its normal self.
WoogyDude	Posted - 2008.03.14 04:46:00 - [112] Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan that's meta as **** agreed
AltBier Blue. Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.14 11:39:00 - [113] Edited by: AltBier on 14/03/2008 11:43:33 Originally by: Kanae Did anyone take this seriously? The last "A modest proposal" I read was in high school about the Irish eating thier babies to deal with famine... Either I'm overestimating the OP or he is laughing away reading the replies here. Whether or not it's a troll thread, the recent hi-sec jihad swarmers seem to agree with the OP sentiments - get out of 0.0 and have fun in empire space.
Bobbechk Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.14 11:59:00 - [114] Proposal Denied
Kyrie Elaison GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.14 12:36:00 - [115] Epic troll. I'm just amazed. The best part is that Jade wrote two full posts that I didn't bother to read in response to a year-old whinefest. This is pure gold.
Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:42:00 - [116] Oh god the sky is falling. Is anybody hiring?
Mihailo Great GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:58:00 - [117] I have an indecent proposal for the OP right here...

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