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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
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CCP Sputnik
C C P
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Posted - 2008.07.10 11:39:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Sothis Antares
what i mean is, that we're just too few. there are more poeple who wants get nano nerfed than those who are awaiting the data dump
You are enough ^^
The creation of a new data dump is just a mater of time, Prism and T20 already have this task red on their ASAP list and their is hope that the dump will be released with the next bigger patch (that's not a promise more of a big fat I HOPE) but you can be assured that the two of them get bothered with this often enough to "motivate" them
So don't give up and help me to "motivate" them with a lot of posts but to put this topic on the CSM list is a great idea and will help a lot.
__________________________ CCP Sputnik CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Software Engineer
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Sothis Antares
PBA Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.10 12:39:00 -
[122]
Originally by: CCP Sputnik
You are enough ^^
\/, although i don't believe you
Originally by: CCP Sputnik
So don't give up and help me to "motivate" them with a lot of posts
yarr, we'll do
_________________________________________________
devblogs are boring. so is mine :P
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Somatic Neuron
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Posted - 2008.07.10 13:32:00 -
[123]
Originally by: CCP Sputnik You are enough ^^
The creation of a new data dump is just a mater of time, Prism and T20 already have this task red on their ASAP list and their is hope that the dump will be released with the next bigger patch (that's not a promise more of a big fat I HOPE) but you can be assured that the two of them get bothered with this often enough to "motivate" them
FFS, haven't we waited long enough for the data already??? You have the process down to an something that can generate the data quickly now (or the other devs have been lying their asses off in order to try and get us off their backs about it)....give us the damn data now, and after every patch. ---------- |
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.07.10 14:13:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Somatic Neuron
Originally by: CCP Sputnik You are enough ^^
The creation of a new data dump is just a mater of time, Prism and T20 already have this task red on their ASAP list and their is hope that the dump will be released with the next bigger patch (that's not a promise more of a big fat I HOPE) but you can be assured that the two of them get bothered with this often enough to "motivate" them
FFS, haven't we waited long enough for the data already??? You have the process down to an something that can generate the data quickly now (or the other devs have been lying their asses off in order to try and get us off their backs about it)....give us the damn data now, and after every patch.
gsub('after every patch','before every patch') -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | RLS-EVE | Blog |
Talo Momoe
Caldari The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.10 14:56:00 -
[125]
Originally by: CCP Sputnik The creation of a new data dump is just a mater of time, Prism and T20 already have this task red on their ASAP list
I think it's fair to assume that a red item on an ASAP list in CCP project management indicates a critical, or at least top priority, item. Rather than reassuring me, being informed that the data export process is in such a status disappoints me. Just as flagging all tasks as top priority means that none are of top priority, in project management a task that is of top priority that is not actually prioritized and acted upon to conclusion is effectively of no priority. One of these two employees told us about two weeks ago that it was "basically ready, pending approval" (paraphrased). Certainly, some critical error could have been discovered at the last minute, and it has taken two weeks to resolve. Unfortunately, the communication for the last seven months has been that the release is imminent, and when you now tell us that the item is, in theory, of critical priority, I am afraid I have no faith that that actually indicates anything. Please understand, I'm not upset that you haven't delivered something that I feel I have a right to. By no means! I'm simply explaining to you that the communication we've received regarding something that you voluntarily promised to us has been of the poorest sort. If you don't know how long it's going to take, just tell us that. This leads me to my second point:
Originally by: CCP Sputnik their is hope that the dump will be released with the next bigger patch (that's not a promise more of a big fat I HOPE)
If we are to judge by the history of hopes and expectations regarding data exports, rational prediction would demand that I not expect the export any time that could reasonably be described as "soon". Again, this data export is something CCP voluntarily gives us, and we're grateful for it, since you're under no obligation to give it to us. We'd just like you to start being realistic with your expectations, and if you're going to give us an estimate on a release, please try to make that estimate reasonably accurate. No one rational is going to fault you for missing a target. Clearly, however, quite a lot of people fault you for making a habit of it.
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CCP Sputnik
C C P
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Posted - 2008.07.10 15:45:00 -
[126]
I'm so happy about all the ... reserved answers I get if I'm nice.
Lets make this clear, the data dump is a highly complicated task which needs 2 Senior Programmers to accomplish and additionally to establish a process which allows easier data dumps in the future.
The most important guy for this job is Prism who did an awesome job in the last patch by creating a totally new region which was never done before and now he's enjoying this well earned vacation.
Ok and now for the nice guys around here: I still can't tell you when the data dump will happen what I can tell you is that it is on the list and that we are running and planning different projects to improve the support for developers of 3rd party projects - I'm sorry that I'm not able to tell you now what these projects are and when they will be released to you.
Everybody who feels his or her blood pressure rising after he or she were reading this post - we are working as hard as we can if you want to get stuff done faster get a job at CCP and help us, its easy I did it so you can do it too. __________________________ CCP Sputnik CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Software Engineer
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Sothis Antares
PBA Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.10 16:03:00 -
[127]
Originally by: CCP Sputnik Everybody who feels his or her blood pressure rising after he or she were reading this post - we are working as hard as we can if you want to get stuff done faster get a job at CCP and help us, its easy I did it so you can do it too.
unfortunaly reykjavik is too far away :( _________________________________________________
devblogs are boring. so is mine :P
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CCP Sputnik
C C P
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Posted - 2008.07.10 17:44:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Sothis Antares unfortunaly reykjavik is too far away :(
That's no excuse we have devs from all over the world are working here for example Mindstar is Aussie and Lingorm Kiwi and CCP is paying for the flight __________________________ CCP Sputnik CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Software Engineer
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Nightblade
Minmatar Black Avatar Lost Sheep Domain
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Posted - 2008.07.10 23:11:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Nightblade on 10/07/2008 23:15:01 It would be really nice if the devs all seemed to be on the same page when they posted. This data dump went from 'done just needs authorisation to release' to 'we're going to get on this, soon, promise' really quickly.
Anyway, it's pretty evident that this is the lowest priority task at CCP atm, if a multitude of people working independently can decode their marshalling format and extract almost all of the data normally in the dump from cache files in less time than it's taking to produce a straight export from a database they have access to.
Not going to hold my breath about the CSM, but I guess false hope is better than no hope?
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Isidien Madcap
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.11 06:00:00 -
[130]
Originally by: CCP Sputnik Lets make this clear, the data dump is a highly complicated task which needs 2 Senior Programmers to accomplish and additionally to establish a process which allows easier data dumps in the future.
However, a map data only dump should be significantly easier than the full dump, and would get many people off your back. Though at this point, I should just stare at the in-game map and just add the connections for the new region to my data myself... ---- Isidien |
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CCP Sputnik
C C P
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Posted - 2008.07.11 12:28:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Nightblade Edited by: Nightblade on 10/07/2008 23:15:01 It would be really nice if the devs all seemed to be on the same page when they posted. This data dump went from 'done just needs authorisation to release' to 'we're going to get on this, soon, promise' really quickly.
News the first one ('done just needs authorisation to release') is correct which means I'm almost sure you'll get the data dump with the next patch additionally all of you should take a look at this nice devblog and I can additionally tell you that there will be also a lot of nice stuff for 3rd party developers included. __________________________ CCP Sputnik CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Software Engineer
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Nightblade
Minmatar Black Avatar Lost Sheep Domain
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Posted - 2008.07.11 14:46:00 -
[132]
Thanks for clearing that up. Hopefully the extended delay now is just because the dump you have is for the data from the next patch and you're trying to synchronize the data release with the patch release. We'll see...
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Bolavaz
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Posted - 2008.07.11 20:18:00 -
[133]
When is the next patch scheduled for?
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biggeruniverse
Gallente Little Fuzzy Creatures of Mayhem and Destruction DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.07.12 02:14:00 -
[134]
Edited by: biggeruniverse on 12/07/2008 02:16:09 As consumers of a final product, to us of course the creation of that product seems straightforward. It isn't and many are aware of it, but that doesn't help the impatience that everyone feels. Many of those waiting likewise have people asking when the next release of their product will be.
If we could at least have a schema, I'd be happy.
-bu
EDIT: *could even -> could at least
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Chruker
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Posted - 2008.07.12 17:32:00 -
[135]
"Are we there yet?" ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Vessper
Indicium Technologies
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Posted - 2008.07.13 10:37:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Chruker "Are we there yet?"
Are we there yet?
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EveHQ Character App | Item Database |
de drada
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Posted - 2008.07.13 12:24:00 -
[137]
Originally by: CCP Sputnik I'm almost sure you'll get the data dump with the next patch
I believe this statement is totally tru, because there allways will be "a next patch". No offense CCP, but "dump will come together with the next patch" has been announced more than once before the last patches.
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CCP Sputnik
C C P
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Posted - 2008.07.14 13:44:00 -
[138]
Edited by: CCP Sputnik on 14/07/2008 13:44:44
Originally by: de drada I believe this statement is totally tru, because there allways will be "a next patch". No offense CCP, but "dump will come together with the next patch" has been announced more than once before the last patches.
OK exact status is: The feature is finished (there is a button somewhere and if somebody is pressing it a data dump gets created) but the feature isn't tested yet because feature testing for the next patch has just started, so now somebody in QA has to press the button and check all the necessary stuff (don't know what exactly), if everything gets a green stamp by QA somebody can press the button and release the new data dump.
But the best thing of this is that there will be a data dump with every major patch or even with every patch now (don't know how the release process will be).
OK and that's it! There is a lot of stuff which can stop the release thats's why I DONT'T WANT to say: "there is going to be a data dump release with the next patch" __________________________ CCP Sputnik CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Software Engineer
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Vessper
Indicium Technologies
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Posted - 2008.07.14 13:51:00 -
[139]
I think the next question that everybody will be asking is when's the next patch due??
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EveHQ Character App | Item Database |
CPark Finner
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Posted - 2008.07.14 15:34:00 -
[140]
Many folks doing EVE add-on programs understand the issues with organizations' development/release pipelines. They have to make their own decisions about release, work-around or wait and they need a bit more detail and more regular update than CCP is providing now. We are talking about coordinating loosely coupled third party development.
Perhaps we could get a developer blog that gives us a bit of insight into CCP's development/ release pipeline. Then we could get answers that place a particular effort in the pipeline...
ôIt's been sent to QA, they are swamped now so it will be a while until they get to it but even when they do they may find problems we have to fix. The target is mid August.ö
For some forums that would just start another round of whining. But the discussions here have been pretty restrained.
I can understand that CCP may not want to expose that much about their internal operations or about the one step forward, two steps back kind of process real development often ends up being. In this limited part of their efforts, however, they might be able to risk a bit more transparency. Moreover, the data-dump and API work is somewhat disconnected from main-stream features. Information about them would not necessarily give away competitive secrets.
All of that being said û CCP provide more to external developers than most and we should be thankful they do. We all know they don't have to do any of this. If they are putting 25% of two people on the data dump, API and IGB functions we may be looking at $100,000 + every year to deliver those services*. That's a lot of commitment for an organization that's trying to do as much as they are.
* Assuming a fully burdened labor cost of $150K/year plus allocated costs like web servers to run the API, the QA organization to check it out, and the forum coordination/response activities.
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Talo Momoe
Caldari The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.14 23:29:00 -
[141]
Sounds great, and I appreciate the clarity and forthrightness of the information. Looking forward to seeing the new procedures in action.
Originally by: CCP Sputnik Edited by: CCP Sputnik on 14/07/2008 13:44:44
Originally by: de drada I believe this statement is totally tru, because there allways will be "a next patch". No offense CCP, but "dump will come together with the next patch" has been announced more than once before the last patches.
OK exact status is: The feature is finished (there is a button somewhere and if somebody is pressing it a data dump gets created) but the feature isn't tested yet because feature testing for the next patch has just started, so now somebody in QA has to press the button and check all the necessary stuff (don't know what exactly), if everything gets a green stamp by QA somebody can press the button and release the new data dump.
But the best thing of this is that there will be a data dump with every major patch or even with every patch now (don't know how the release process will be).
OK and that's it! There is a lot of stuff which can stop the release thats's why I DONT'T WANT to say: "there is going to be a data dump release with the next patch"
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CCP Sputnik
C C P
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Posted - 2008.07.15 11:23:00 -
[142]
Originally by: CPark Finner ...
I don't want to say anything about your post (to critical, dont want to mess anything up).
What I can tell you is that we want to improve the support especially for API related tools, we are looking for example into the possibility to have an open API testserver - and I dont think I have to explain to you what an improvement this would be.
Im personally very interested into this stuff (spend a lot of time developing stuff like this before I started a "serious" programming career) and I will try to be as often as possible in #eve-dev so if you need support or specific information about something just poke me (should be online at least between 10 to 16 ingame time). __________________________ CCP Sputnik CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Software Engineer
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BigWhale
Gallente Three WiseMen Association
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:03:00 -
[143]
Hm, job at CCP. That would certainly be nice and I do qualify! But will CCP also provide a housing for my family...
Damn if I was single with no kids...
Anyway, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the legendary DB DUMP! And since I don't need it just yet, I can say, take your time! ;)
Stop whining people, it is not something that HAS to be provided to us.
"I, for one, will welcome our new and delayed DB DUMP" ;>
-- R, U & Y are letters, not words... |
LymeM
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.16 04:18:00 -
[144]
Originally by: CCP Sputnik
What I can tell you is that we want to improve the support especially for API related tools, we are looking for example into the possibility to have an open API testserver - and I dont think I have to explain to you what an improvement this would be..
A api test server would be really awesome.
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CCP Sputnik
C C P
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Posted - 2008.07.16 09:33:00 -
[145]
Originally by: BigWhale But will CCP also provide a housing for my family...
Actually yes ... but never mind
Originally by: BigWhale "I, for one, will welcome our new and delayed DB DUMP" ;>
I should put this into my signature __________________________ CCP Sputnik CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Software Engineer
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Zathi Shaitan
Minmatar Illiteracy Combatants
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Posted - 2008.07.18 15:48:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Zathi Shaitan on 18/07/2008 15:50:54
Originally by: CCP Sputnik
Lets make this clear, the data dump is a highly complicated task which needs 2 Senior Programmers to accomplish and additionally to establish a process which allows easier data dumps in the future.
Considering the time they take, they should be made juniors. ---- " Several unconventional alliances where made at that point " - Hey CCP, "where" != "were".. you too, Brutus? http://loseloose.com/ |
woddel
Gallente CH Manufacturing and Trading
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Posted - 2008.07.19 07:45:00 -
[147]
check out the work of vessper:
Linkage
at least somebody gets something done... :)
cheerios, woddel --- creator and maintainer of eve-commander complete web based character information tool. |
Sothis Antares
PBA Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.20 22:15:00 -
[148]
Originally by: CCP Sputnik now somebody in QA has to press the button
ummm, the guys in QA hopefully know what a button is? if not, here's a small hint for them:
click click
_________________________________________________
devblogs are boring. so is mine :P
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VheroKai
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.20 23:23:00 -
[149]
It looks that CCP ignoring the fact that 90% of EVE related projects in 90% of their functionality based on EVE dump. Really, we can live without API (it's hard, but possible), but without latest updates to skills, map, ships and modules we can do from little to nothing. As latest example, FW API almost useless without new region map data. --sig--
Originally by: Bunyip The LOLqual is a capital-sized joke
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Yorick Downe
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.21 12:10:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Yorick Downe on 21/07/2008 12:10:51 Would you like some cheese with that, VheroKay? I can recommend the Emmentaler today.
The fact that CCP have created "a button" -- that is, an automated tool for DB dumps -- tells you a few things: They're committed to giving players tools like the DB dump and the API, and they got surprised by their own success. I am willing to Bet Beer that the timeline looked something like this:
while (1) { CCP Dev 1: Wouldn't it be neat if! CCP Dev 2: Oh yeah! Let's do it! [Much sweat of brow later, the DB Dump is born] Players: Raawwrr!! [DB Dump is consumed and put to use, players create dazzling tools] CCP Devs: Neat! Expansion: CREATE A NEW DB DUMP NOW! I DEMAND IT! CCP Devs: Ohnoes! Run for the hills! }
And now they're breaking out of that loop, which is good. The API functionality, btw, follows a very similar pattern - just minus the infinite loop.
CCP Dev 1: Wouldn't it be neat if! CCP Dev 2: Oh yeah! Let's do it! [Much sweat of brow later, the API is born] Players: Raawwrr!! [API is consumed and put to use, players create dazzling tools] CCP Devs: Neat! Players (walking towards devs with arms outstretched at a shambling pace): Dooocumentaaation! Dooocumentaaation! Mooore features! Mooore Doooocumentaaation! CCP Devs: Ohnoes! Run for the hills!
And CCP is breaking out of that last one as well, by having created an API "task force", see one of the recent dev blogs. This is no small thing -- EvE was the first game I know of to even sport such powerful tools. They've been hugely successful, and I don't think CCP quite planned for their success. Well, even beer-soaked brilliant ideas can eventually become Proper Projects, and I think that's what we're seeing here. Not that it's a painless process.
In that spirit: *stretches arms out and walks towards devs with a shambling gait*
DB Duuump! Dooocumentaaaation!
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