| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 .. 14 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Hotaru Nakayoshi
United Space Corp with Honorable Intersts
   |
Posted - 2008.03.18 04:42:00 -
[1]
Nanoships blessing or curse?
Everyone and his friends uses them now. Were they intended? I don't think so. Have i used them? I am forced to! :(
Right now they broke the whole risk vs. reward system that is nicely used if it comes to explain how things should work in EvE. How can we change the speed of ships without breaking those ships who were intended to be really fast, like interceptors?
I don't see anything wrong with a ship that tries to move straight on with fast speed to get away from something. But a cruiser orbiting a ship at a range of 20km - 30km with more than 4000m/s is just wrong, that should be the thing of interceptors only, letting alone the Vagabond for now.
Should a cruiser be able to outrun an interceptor? No they don't. Should any other ship be very fast and agile at the same time as interceptors were supposed
to be? I don't think so either. So how can we achieve to get all ship speeds in line again? I got a few ideas about that.
For starters change the way of how overdrives, inertia stabilizers and nanofibers affect the speed. There are two ways i can think of right now...
1.
- Overdrives: Change the cargo capacity penalty to an inertia penalty. This would prevent ships from beeing agile and fast at the same time
- Inertia stabs: Chance the signature radius penalty to a speed penalty. This would prevent fast ships compensating the lack of agility.
- Nanofibers: Leave them alone, they would be a module that affects both attributes a little bit. A ship gets a little more agile and a little faster with an AB/MWD fitted.
- Improve the inertia of interceptors so it would compensate the use of two overdrive modules.
- Allow only 3 mods or rigs to be fitted at the same time that affect either of the following attributes: inertia, mass, speed
This way people would have to decide to be either very agile or fast, but not both at a time!
Interceptors would not be affected very much, cause they are agile as it is and with the inertia improvement they could fit overdrives without having to suffer from a bad inertia. Even covert ops would not suffer from that cause they still could fit overdrives to go fast as they are cloaked.
2.
- Overdrives: Change the cargo capacity penalty to an inertia penalty. Change the bonus to be a thrust bonus (AB/MWD) instead of a speed % bonus. This way the speeds of "supposed to be slow boats" wont get through the roof anymore, cause the additional speed is based on the MWD/AB now.
- Inertia stabs: Change the signature penalty to a speed penalty. If you want an agile ship you won't go as fast anymore.
- Improve the inertia of interceptors so it would compensate the use of two overdrive modules.
- Nanofibers: Leave them alone again, little profits for both, speed and agility.
- Allow only 3 mods or rigs to be fitted at the same time that affect either of the following attributes: inertia, mass, speed
Even with this solution fast and agile are out of the picture if they were not supposed to be. Interceptors would stay where they are. This of course would change the behaviour of cloaked ships.
As you may see that both suggestions make use of a limit to speed affecting modules, because there are just to many of them. Right now we have 3 attributes that are affecting speed and agility. Speed, mass and inertia. With so many possibilities affecting both speed and agility there needs to be a change to get the ships that are out of line, back into line again. How to do that is not an easy decision, i personally favor my first suggestion. Of course some fine tuning still has to be done, but this way it would not hurt ships that want to go fast or want to be agile, just both at the same time is not possible anymore and would help a lot to get ships into combat again. If you can't get past a specific speed anymore that would help even weapons to track targets again.
|
Hotaru Nakayoshi
United Space Corp with Honorable Intersts
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 04:43:00 -
[2]
I know that all the nano lovers will be crybabies now, but still this is a change that is needed, because most people keep "bending" the way the eve engine works right now. It's not a nerf to a single ship, but a ballance issue to give all the ships that can't be nano'ed a reason to be used again.
Feel free to discuss but please remember... read, think, post! Not read 'n' post. Let the flamewar begin! :P
|
Destr0math
The Illuminati.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 06:47:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Destr0math on 18/03/2008 06:54:09
Edited by: Destr0math on 18/03/2008 06:53:07
First in a really stupid post. Seriously, go stick your head in a hole in the ground.
tell me, if nanoships are nerfed, how minmatar ships in general will be. Without nanoships there is not a single minmatar ship that is not outperformed in huge ways by other races.
Or hm. Let's think about it another way. If i spend 200million on my ship, and you're spending 10m on your intie, why are you upset that i go faster than you?
If you spent a few hundred million on an intie, it will go faster than a vaga. every time, and therefore be able to web said vaga and allow your friends in real ships to kill them.
Without speed, nanoships are lacking hugely. To achieve the high velocities you require, you have to sacrifice both damage and tanking. Without the advantage of speed, the whole line of HACs becomes basically extra-expensive cruisers that lose to battlecruisers every time.
it really pains me because i'm pretty sure that nanos are about to be nerfed, but what they do is encourage pvp, because they are able to escape big blobs - without nanoships there's really not much a small gang can do to get past a fleet other than log out and wait for the fleet to leave. I'm talking like 3 vs. 100. yes, it has happened, likely is happening now, and probably will continue to happen.
Your proposed nerf is pretty stupid too, but i don't think you really deserve this response in the first place. Adapt,****got.
edit: dianeces probably said it better but i cbfa to respond to stupid people
----
Today is CATURDAY |
Dianeces
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 06:52:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Hotaru Nakayoshi
Everyone and his friends uses them now.
For roaming, perhaps. For fleet fights? No.
Originally by: Hotaru Nakayoshi
Were they intended? I don't think so.
What you think has no bearing on anything relating to game mechanics whatsoever.
Originally by: Hotaru Nakayoshi
Have i used them? I am forced to! :(
Nobody in Eve is forced to do anything. At all. Nothing. You aren't forced to undock, carebears aren't forced to go to low-sec/0.0, PvPers aren't forced to run missions. That being said, you do have to face the consequences of not doing something. You can't play if you don't undock, you won't have isk if you don't put some effort into making it somehow, and you certainly won't get to experience Eve's fantastic PvP if you farm missions in high-sec in an NPC corp 24/7.
Originally by: Hotaru Nakayoshi
a cruiser orbiting a ship at a range of 20km - 30km with more than 4000m/s is just wrong, that should be the thing of interceptors only
Why? Because you don't like it? Making assertions without proof does not make them true.
Originally by: Hotaru Nakayoshi
Should a cruiser be able to outrun an interceptor?
Except for the Vagabond, most cruisers require a full speed fit and polycarbs to match the speed one of the slowest interceptors, the Taranis, does with just a T2 MWD. That is a 120m investment for speeds approaching that of an interceptor. So the cruisers that outrun inties are the ones where people spent a significant amount of isk to gain additional performance. If you spent the same amount on your interceptor, you would go faster than them.
Originally by: Hotaru Nakayoshi
Should any other ship be very fast and agile at the same time as interceptors were supposed to be? I don't think so either.
See above about how important your thoughts are.
Originally by: Hotaru Nakayoshi
Nonsense about changing game mechanics to make a valid play style virtually impossible to do.
Not needed. Especially considering it would greatly reduce variety in a sandbox game.
It was a pretty good troll. You managed to make me stop playing Eve for a couple minutes to write a reply to your drivel. Try to make it less flagrant next time, though.
4/10
|
Tyria Sharken
TalCorp Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 06:54:00 -
[5]
/me points up at Destro
Good example of a nan-crybaby right there.
But back to the op.. I actualy agree with that.. whats the point of training up for a Intercepter, have small guns that do little damage, and be regulated to 'tackling' only.. if you can get a cheeper cruiser sized ship with heavier weapons moveing at the same velocities?
And befor anyone quips up that 'intercepters are needed to tackle' Ok.. intercepts are good at tackling.. but their also vulnerable to stasis webs. Why be in a itty bitty can when you can also 'tackle' with a nano'd out throax orbiting with EW going and still haveing the armor/shields/weapons to actualy 'slug it out' with what your tacklign if you get webbed?
---------------------------------------------
"Only two great species on this planet take part in massive, organized warfare.
Men, and ants." |
Dianeces
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 07:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tyria Sharken
But back to the op.. I actualy agree with that.. whats the point of training up for a Intercepter, have small guns that do little damage, and be regulated to 'tackling' only.. if you can get a cheeper cruiser sized ship with heavier weapons moveing at the same velocities?
Because non-pimp speed fit interceptors are faster than all but the most heavily pimped nano-HACs/Recons.
Originally by: Tyria Sharken
And befor anyone quips up that 'intercepters are needed to tackle' Ok.. intercepts are good at tackling.. but their also vulnerable to stasis webs.
So my Vagabond is now immune to webs? Good to know.
Originally by: Tyria Sharken
Why be in a itty bitty can when you can also 'tackle' with a nano'd out throax orbiting with EW going and still haveing the armor/shields/weapons to actualy 'slug it out' with what your tacklign if you get webbed?
I laughed when I read this. This statement right here shows exactly how much you know about PvP. In the 3 minutes I took to write this post, I forgot more about PvP than this statement suggests you know. Learn to play, then comment on balance.
|
Ghengis Gone
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 08:27:00 -
[7]
10 gang-fit hacs/speed ships vs 10 gang-fit battleships, who will win?
The battleships.
Nerf battleships?
Nerf working together?
Nerf fitting for a group goal?
Nano-ships are mainly used to go behind enemy lines and attack lightly defended targets quickly and escape before the big guns arrive. I don't see how that is completely unbalanced. Now before when BSs could go 7k+ with the agility of an interceptor and lay on 4x heavy nos that always sucks cap, yeah thats pretty unbalanced. Or is it imbalanced, I dunno so sleepy.
Tons of isk risked for a paper thin nanoship that can die if you lag for 3 seconds, that sounds like risk v. reward working pretty dang well to me.
Maybe ODs/istabs/nanos should all stack nerf vs each other or at a slightly greater rate than how they stack now, I dunno. BUT losing nano-ships or a viable speed combat ship would greatly reduce the amount of tactics in the EVE universe, and that would be a shame.
|
viuva
IDLE GUNS
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 08:57:00 -
[8]
i really dont understand... do you want have to have mirror matches ? battlegrounds maybe ?....
do you think is fair a new player fight a carrier, blobs , etc ?.... or we gonna say nerf all that kill me when im on disavantage pls
ADAPT... EVE is like real life... dont go alone...use scouts ... heat webs ... go with a friend that can web.... first of all think !
DEATH IS NOT FAIR...
|
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 09:03:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 18/03/2008 09:03:38
While revisiting the tv-series Andromeda I came across something that might be fun to consider.
Mass Packets.
Fired from any missile launcher like a defender missile and adds a percentage to the weight of target.
Effect removed on session change (warp, gate, jump and death)
Stacking penalised and capped so they can't be used to completely immobilise a ship (that's what webs are for), but adding just 50% to the weight of a speed ship reduces mwd effectiveness, agility, warp cap use .. basically gimps ship to no end.
Doubles as punishment for the plated trimark monstrosities floating around - adding weight bogs them down even further.
Either that or a Web amplifier module for lowslot, increase web range at expense of web strength.
|
Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 11:35:00 -
[10]
The current state of speed is fine, the current state of whining about speed is not fine.
there are many counters
there are many things you can do about nano
use your brains
|
Chi Quan
DEFCON.
Phoenix Allianz
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 13:07:00 -
[11]
polycarbons, the root of nanoevil.
seriously, try a nanofit without them and i guarantee you won't succeed.
-- Tempus fugit --
quote spiralJunkie:
it doesn't matter how you pronounce it, it still shoots you in the face |
XunamoR
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 14:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Destr0math
Without speed, nanoships are lacking hugely. To achieve the high velocities you require, you have to sacrifice both damage and tanking. Without the advantage of speed, the whole line of HACs becomes basically extra-expensive cruisers that lose to battlecruisers every time.
it really pains me because i'm pretty sure that nanos are about to be nerfed, but what they do is encourage pvp, because they are able to escape big blobs - without nanoships there's really not much a small gang can do to get past a fleet other than log out and wait for the fleet to leave. I'm talking like 3 vs. 100. yes, it has happened, likely is happening now, and probably will continue to happen.
after reading this i gave up reading the rest of the post. thats pretty much 101% accurate and nothing else should be considered. drake crying pilots go home.
|
sliver 0xD
exiles.
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 14:16:00 -
[13]
i find nano still a problem, but u know with weak ships like the vaga the dps isnt much and a slow tanking ship can handle a nano ship.
but then ppl start to nano phoons (witch still is done) and nano ishtars witch are a pain becouse they have high dps like a bs. and theres no stoping them.
anyway we have tryed a few times to kill a nano gang with no sucses, so i wonder if its ment to be that if u fitt nano that u always win a fight.
---
Somebody needs a hug! |
Gromilia
Detrimental Metamorphosis
THORN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 14:38:00 -
[14]
ok here we go again about nurfing something again. I wish some of you people get a life and stop complaining about nerfing this & nerfing that.Like what ccp done with the nos and the torps and other things. We all should be happy playing the game as it was designed and not giving CCP a big headace.CCP are trying to fix things and all people do is complain. This game would be better of if things were not nurfed and left alone.To balance things thats ok but to nerf things it stuff up the game play.Lets help CCP to find those errors with the game and report to them so CCP could fix the current problems they are having.
|
LVirus
Enterprise Estonia
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 14:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: sliver 0xD
i find nano still a problem, but u know with weak ships like the vaga the dps isnt much and a slow tanking ship can handle a nano ship.
but then ppl start to nano phoons (witch still is done) and nano ishtars witch are a pain becouse they have high dps like a bs. and theres no stoping them.
anyway we have tryed a few times to kill a nano gang with no sucses, so i wonder if its ment to be that if u fitt nano that u always win a fight.
so what ships did you have? Did you have any small fast ships with webs or minmatar recons? Did you have any ECM or damp ships? I guess not. Dont come crying here if you suck at pvp.
Even the best nano gangs cant do **** vs properly setup small gang. EW turns them from "imba" to useless with just a push of a button.
|
Christari Zuborov
Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 15:48:00 -
[16]
I really don't see an issue with nano SHIPS at this time. You can't nano a cruiser sized ship faster than 3500m/s without getting into the following:
Gang + Command ship bonuses
Implants
Using a Vegabond
Nano ship setups typically don't have damage mods, they don't have tanks, and they usually don't even include reppers. A ship set up for tanking can tank nano dps, a battleship fitted with a nuet will completely drive them off, and a huggin or rapier is like "OFF" repellent to misquitos.
The only thing I would say is out of whack are the implants, as a nano fit HAC can get into unbelievable speeds with them.
|
Plave Okice
Red.
Red Republic
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 15:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tyria Sharken
Why be in a itty bitty can when you can also 'tackle' with a nano'd out throax orbiting with EW going and still haveing the armor/shields/weapons to actualy 'slug it out' with what your tacklign if you get webbed?
I was going to discuss the op's points in detail but I'll need to compose myself a little after reading that sentence first.
I will however say, as many have before me, I don't see why Polycarbon Rigs should be pretty much the only rigs to have better stats than their equivalent modules, like all other rigs they should be less effective than the modules.
CEORed Vs Blue |
Zarch AlDain
Hematite Rose
Bionic Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 17:06:00 -
[18]
The OP's suggestion wasn't perfect but the response has been excessively harsh.
The current FOTM in eve is nano gangs and in many ways they ARE over-powered. Mostly due to the extremely low risk they take when engaging due to their speed.
I do like the simple idea of having overdrives reduce inertia and intertial stabs reduce speed. They don't need to be as big penalties as they are bonus but the results would be interesting and it means the devs don't need their new stuff in place to apply stacking mods over multiple different attributes.
Fitting an istab reduces your top speed, fitting an overdrive reduces your maneuverability. Fit one of each and you get a boost to both speed and maneuverability but not as much as you get now.
Simple, elegant, and not excessive.
I think that just that change on its own should be tried first before considering any other steps but I like it.
Zarch AlDain
----
My corp is recruiting. See the recruitment thread here.
|
Zanquis
Universal Exports
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 17:10:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Zanquis on 18/03/2008 17:14:13
I think one point people keep missing is that while you can make it so a nano gang has to run, you can't really do much to catch a nano gang unless you have your own nano gang.
*You can energy nuke them but then once that happens they just warp away since their current MWD cycle will still continue to provide them the speed they need to run and you can warp away with zero energy even though you will not get far, but its far enough for them to run away.
*You can send an interceptor after them to tie one down but most nano gangs have nano hac's which will make quick work of the interceptor before the other support ships can get in range to hold down the tackled target
*You can use ewar to mess them up but then if they can't handle it they just run away
In my opinion the real problem with the current state of nano is risk vs reward. Nano gives you the benfit of being able to choose who you fight, when you fight, evade large gangs, run from fights gone bad, etc. Above all that it is the only form of tank which can render you immune to damage from any form. That is quite a bit of benefits and while it is expensive to get a good nano HAC it is not a good idea to balance a game based on the price to make a ship. In my opinion just getting a HAC or cruiser to go much faster then it was designed to is justification enough for the cash they spent. The game clearly was not designed for the current speeds which are commonplace since if you look at ANY ccp documentation the highest speed they ever refer to us about 3KM/s.
I am ok with Nano ships being elusive and able to strike hard and fast. However when they engage in a fight they should not be able to get away so easy, and they should not be so hard to hit. Yes there should be reduction in damage for speed, but that should NEVER be zero. You should be at the very least able to wear down even if the are going full speed and kill them. Furthermore it should be easier to prevent them from running if they decide to engage you without having a 40KM web range. If this was done then nano ships could still avoid large fleets and choose their fights but they would have to choose more carefully then they do now since they will take damage and if they make a bad call or get jumped by a fleet during a fight they will loose ships like everybody else who makes that mistake.
To accomplish this I propose making the following changes...
**Ships require a minimum of 15% capacitor to initiate their warp drive. (Means if you nuke them dry they can't run so easily)
**Warp Drive is unusable while MWD active and requires a 15s recalibration after the last cycle before the warp drive initiates (gives you time to jam them when they deactivate the drive to run away. Prevents just running out of jam range and getting away scott free all the time)
**The effect speed has on turrets and missles needs a floor so that it is always possible to hit a ship regardless of their speed for reduced damage. Turrets should be able to score at best glancing hits and missles a small portio of their damage in the most extreame of situations. There should be no insta poping a speed tank but any ship should be able to wear it down.
**Things should be changed so that if a ship runs away at full speed the further they get the easier they are to hit with turrets. This would make anti support snipers able to deal significant damage against nano ships as they hit long ranges.
With these changes it nano would allow you to engage the fight at an advantage and avoid large fleets, but make running away once you have engaged difficult.
********************************************
CEO of CSS Ltd.
|
Trigos Trilobi
X-Fire
space weaponry and trade
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 18:25:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zanquis
I am ok with Nano ships being elusive and able to strike hard and fast. However when they engage in a fight they should not be able to get away so easy, and they should not be so hard to hit. Yes there should be reduction in damage for speed, but that should NEVER be zero. You should be at the very least able to wear down even if the are going full speed and kill them.
**The effect speed has on turrets and missles needs a floor so that it is always possible to hit a ship regardless of their speed for reduced damage. Turrets should be able to score at best glancing hits and missles a small portio of their damage in the most extreame of situations. There should be no insta poping a speed tank but any ship should be able to wear it down.
Could we also have a feature introduced that prevents reppers/boosters/passive shield regen from completely removing all damage inflicted. There should be no insta poping a repper/booster/regen tank, but any ship should be able to wear it down. Also another mid slot module with hmm 10km, maybe 15km for faction and possibly overheat range extension, which would reduce repper/booster/regen effect by 90% would be sorely needed.
More seriously, why does every anti-nano thread have to 1) totally exaggerate (cruisers are faster than inties) and/or 2) suggest a totally onesided fix aimed to change the game so that the cookiecutter gank/tank basic fit should work against everything?
"nanoships suck at webrange, now if only we can extend that to 24km then the game will be Balanced(tm) again "
What then? Remove reppers etc from game too so you can just compare hp and dps amounts? Resists kinda complicate matters too much too, better get rid of those aswell. Set all hp to 10000 so no need to bother brain with that. Better remove mobility altogether since it's always going to be unfair because the faster one can always dictate range. Maybe standardize ranges too across the board so fleets can just warp at 10km across each other in a cute little row and see whose mega has more dps without worrying about stupid inconveniences.
|
Wesley Baird
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 18:48:00 -
[21]
Crazy speed out of hacs require crazy isk, if you spend a bill+ on snakes, you should get some uber benefit no?!?! Given how easy it is to take on a nano gang, and kill them...I don't see the problem...
Don't believe it can be done easily, talk with Smashkill, they used several cheap but effective methods to great effect to stop the nano-faggory of Tri...so enough whine, and learn to play the game...
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Rezerwowy Pies
Sadistic Influence
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 19:00:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Rezerwowy Pies on 18/03/2008 19:02:07
Originally by: Hotaru Nakayoshi
Everyone and his friends uses them now. Were they intended? I don't think so. Have i used them? I am forced to! :(
simmilar thing with passive drakes/nighthawks and missions (specialy with neut towers). ===> "Everyone and his friends uses them now. Were they intended? I don't think so. Have i used them? I am forced to! :("
Speed is a form of tank. We could do same thing with for example shield power relay's like: 24% to recharge rate of the shields but -35% to shield hp (now its -35% to cap recharge).
Yay
|
Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 19:03:00 -
[23]
nano is fine, the people in this thread are not
heavy neut
|
Sekket
White-Noise
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 19:04:00 -
[24]
So all you nano guys are ok with the fact that if a nanoed up ship sets a course right past a drake, and the drake begins to launch before the ship passes it by, that the drakes missiles still miss? With guns, you'd still hit because the target's transversal would be crap, now, the missles should be able to hit because it's heading right for you, but unfortunately relative velocity of the missiles don't seem to matter, just the velocity of the target.
This is ok?
|
Leylla Gainsborought
VMF-214 Blacksheep
Star Buccaneers
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 19:29:00 -
[25]
2 things..
WHy the f**k you're complaining about this ?
Look to pirate side, they dont have much more choice right now with thecoming futur of eve! Nerf nano and you'll definitly kill the poor solo yarr because they use this to try to enjoy the game without being blobbed by people using hot dropping capitals.
DO NOT start complaining about this again. One nerf was enought for the BS , it was a right nerf. Thats all.
Damn you guys should think twice before saying this kind of stuff to dev forum.
Seriously
|
Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 19:33:00 -
[26]
Nanos aren't overpowered, webs are... and in the age of cap hotdropping, fast ships are essential to survival.
People are forced to fly nanoships because of 1. webs, and 2. caps.
The abundance of nanoships are a symptom, not the disease. And there ARE plenty of counters. Not to mention nanoships are very expensive, paper thin, and if their dps can't be nullified completely (drones) then they can be tanked easily.
Make webs only effect mwd... hell maybe even give them some falloff range. Maybe something needs to be done with cap hotdropping as well... but I got nothin.
|
Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 19:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sekket
So all you nano guys are ok with the fact that if a nanoed up ship sets a course right past a drake, and the drake begins to launch before the ship passes it by, that the drakes missiles still miss? With guns, you'd still hit because the target's transversal would be crap, now, the missles should be able to hit because it's heading right for you, but unfortunately relative velocity of the missiles don't seem to matter, just the velocity of the target.
This is ok?
yeah its quite fine. If you get a ford focus to race my ferrari, is that fair? You are in a drake, a great support ship, great damage to slower moving targets. You must bring the rigth weapon to the right fight, a swiss army is not availible in eve and never will, regardless of whatever zulupark says. Just cause you can fly a drake doesn't entitle you to kill anything that is on the grid with you
|
Zanquis
Universal Exports
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 20:23:00 -
[28]
Trigos Trilobi its obvious you never read my post before replying to it. I bet you only skimed it and found one part and decided to make a case of it.
People keep saying there are ways to 'deal' with nano ships, however you guys fail to mention that those ways result in 90% of the nano ships getting away. I have no problem with a nano ship avoiding a blob, I do have a problem with nano ships starting a fight and being abile to easily bail from it if things do not work out. Sure there are plenty of ways to make a nano ship bail, however there are VERY FEW ways to actually kill a nano ship in the hands of a half decent player.
Also the argument people keep using that "If I tick out my nano ship then I should reap the benefit" holds no water because the reverse is not true. If I tick out a battleship or HAC in any other way then nano I will not gain anything close to the amount I would gain if I nano a ship instead. Furthermore if I spent say 500 mil on a a HAC and awsome implants and somebody else does with nano and sankes, I am still helpless against the nano pilot and the best I can possibly hope for is to make him run away, because if the fight turns south he will easily escape.
Speed tanking should be a legitimate way of tanking and very unique in its own way, however its pro's and cons must be balanced against eachother. Right now the only weakness of a nano tank is capacitor, webbers., and a soft traditioal tank. However its easy to stay out of web range unless they have a very specific selection of Minmitar ships with the web range bonus, getting to their weak traditional tank is not possible unless you web them because they are immune to anything short of a DD weapon due to their speed, and their capacitor which is the best way to hit them will often just result in them warping away the moment you cap nuke them since they still have the velocity to stay out range of web/scram and as a nano ship they align super fast and warp. Even with zero cap you can warp a short distance to get out of a fight.
Notice how I NEVER said that webbers should be the solution to Nano ships because that is instant death. I simply suggested ways in modifing the mechanics of speed tanking to add managable vulnerabilities which give all players a fair way of defending themself against this kind of setup.
********************************************
CEO of CSS Ltd.
|
Suboran
Victory Not Vengeance
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 20:27:00 -
[29]
Rapier.
|
Zanquis
Universal Exports
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.03.18 20:28:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Zanquis on 18/03/2008 20:35:42
Edited by: Zanquis on 18/03/2008 20:33:54
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Could we also have a feature introduced that prevents reppers/boosters/passive shield regen from completely removing all damage inflicted. There should be no insta poping a repper/booster/regen tank, but any ship should be able to wear it down. Also another mid slot module with hmm 10km, maybe 15km for faction and possibly overheat range extension, which would reduce repper/booster/regen effect by 90% would be sorely needed.
You alredy can wear down any non speed tanking ship, you are hitting them for damage, somthing they are not doing to you. There is a big diffrence between hard to damage and impossible to damage, speed tanking is across that line right now. Yes there are counters to it if your a battleship or part of a select group of ewar ships, but few of this options result in a chance to actually kill the agressing nano ship because as it stands anything short of webbing just results in the nano ship warping away to a safespot.
Can't you see why speed tanking needs to be reworked?
As it stands there is NO grey area, they are either instantly dead or impossible to kill. More often then not its impossible to kill because unless you have a minmitar ship with a web range bonus, your not gonna catch them. Sure you can equip your fleet to deal with a nano gang, but unless that fleet is also nano your not going to ever fight one because they will avoid you. Often times they will warp one ship in 100KM from you and evaluate your force, if they see a long range webber they just avoid you and warp off again, if they think they can take you he is so fast he will be ontop of you in seconds with all his buddies right behind him. Even then if the fight goes south and they find you got a bunch of cap nukers, they will take off like a bat out of hell. So pretty much any half decent nano gang runs almost totally risk free and the best any non nano gang can do is try to look like an unattractive target.
********************************************
CEO of CSS Ltd.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 .. 14 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |