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Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
294
   |
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok I was thinking on the whole 'Too much Isk in Incusions' disscusion.
Now a lot of isk/hr are quoted and bandied around as if this is the be all and end all of the assesment in reality it isn't
Other interesting things to note about Incursions
They have a limited Spawn rate over time
They have a limited number of people who can reasonabily be involved
Comparitivley very few people can be involoved.
Now consider Null sec and the number of moons out there and how much each one is worth a day.
Or a jita trader with 50B collatoral
These are things anyone (?) can possibly do not like incursion at all that are limited compative events for reasonably large prizes.
What is worrying about Incursion and should be addresed is that in this tiered system only one tier gets most of the atttention suggesting an inbalance in the tiers rather than an imbalance in the size of the reward..
Thats how I see it all anyway
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Paragon Renegade
Wyvern Operations
318
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
They also cause inflation and promote "No risk = Big Cash" gameplay
imo
The pie is a tautology |
Nex apparatu5
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
212
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Neither a Jita trader nor moons create isk. In fact, because of trading fees, these sink isk.
Go back and rethink your argument. |
baltec1
679
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Neither a Jita trader nor moons create isk. In fact, because of trading fees, these sink isk.
Go back and rethink your argument.
This.
OP try again. |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
198
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Very poor
WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
Tore Vest
236
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nerf Jita traders
A real highsec carebear. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
294
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Neither a Jita trader nor moons create isk. In fact, because of trading fees, these sink isk.
Go back and rethink your argument.
Interestin arguement, kinda irrelevant to my point, interesting though.
Not entirely sure the premise more isk = inflation (plex maybe an exception to this) in an economy where cost is clearly defined as NPC product and refining, where there is very little % set up cost ie an unfeasibly agile market. and such a competative combative selling arena.
TLDR you basically can't inflate the price of a product in EVE much because of the way the crafting<>Auction House system works
As you where kind enough to give me advice though, I'll return the favour. Go back rethink your assumtions about New Eden they may not be true even if they are they may not remain true everything changes.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Chiggy W
Hard-Luck Industries
42
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 18:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:
Now consider Null sec and the number of moons out there and how much each one is worth a day.
Or a jita trader with 50B collatoral
OK, then
Professor Alphane wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Neither a Jita trader nor moons create isk. In fact, because of trading fees, these sink isk.
Go back and rethink your argument..
Interestin arguement, kinda irrelevant to my point, interesting though.
What?
The fact is he's right, regardless of wether you think so or not. A Jita trader doesn't introduce ISK, it simply moves between two people, and as for moons, they don't print ISK, they produce an item for which ISK trades hands, just like Veldespar. The fact that some moon goo trades for 120K Isk P.U rather than 5 Isk P.U is irrelevant.
Really, go back and think about this (hint, a good example would be ratting or missions, both of which inject less ISK per hour/per player than incursions) |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe
Test Alliance Please Ignore
45
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 19:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:Neither a Jita trader nor moons create isk. In fact, because of trading fees, these sink isk.
Go back and rethink your argument. Interestin arguement, kinda irrelevant to my point, interesting though. Not entirely sure the premise more isk = inflation (plex maybe an exception to this) in an economy where cost is clearly defined as NPC product and refining, where there is very little % set up cost ie an unfeasibly agile market. and such a competative combative selling arena. TLDR you basically can't inflate the price of a product in EVE much because of the way the crafting<>Auction House system works As you where kind enough to give me advice though, I'll return the favour. Go back rethink your assumtions about New Eden they may not be true even if they are they may not remain true everything changes.
You don't really have a clue how things work do you? |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
294
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 19:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
As this is a discusion on Lies , Damn lies, and Statstics
And no one has posted any of the third to disprove my asserstions I can only assume the rest of the posts must be one of the first 2 
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
M5 Tuttle
The Shadow Plague
BLACK-MARK
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 19:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:Neither a Jita trader nor moons create isk. In fact, because of trading fees, these sink isk.
Go back and rethink your argument. Interestin arguement, kinda irrelevant to my point, interesting though. Not entirely sure the premise more isk = inflation (plex maybe an exception to this) in an economy where cost is clearly defined as NPC product and refining, where there is very little % set up cost ie an unfeasibly agile market. and such a competative combative selling arena.
It is absolutely relevant. And yes, more currency = inflation as long as supply of goods doesn't also increase, or currency increases more quickly than supply. This is the definition of inflation, and exactly what is happening and why you are wrong. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
294
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 19:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Chiggy W wrote: ISK per hour/per player
Ok I apologise , I'll be generous and accept this as a mathmatical equation.
Then my arguement would be
isk/hr/player
does not fully represent the situation to my mind you must consider
isk/hr/player/player slot available
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
295
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 19:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
M5 Tuttle wrote:
It is absolutely relevant. And yes, more currency = inflation as long as supply of goods doesn't also increase, or currency increases more quickly than supply. This is the definition of inflation, and exactly what is happening and why you are wrong.
or anyone can quickly and easily supply in a market where generally supply far outstrips demand in most sectors and most crafted property becomes chips in market PvP.
What IS inflating is the massive silent war machine sat round in thousands of stations and crop hangers across EVE.
If you check my 'birth date' you will see I joined EVE many years ago, Prices have changed little from then , the amount of ISK in the market is huge since then.
So both theory and observation say 'Infaltion in EVE is mostly a Myth'
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
baltec1
681
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:
If you check my 'birth date' you will see I joined EVE many years ago, Prices have changed little from then , the amount of ISK in the market is huge since then.
So both theory and observation say 'Infaltion in EVE is mostly a Myth'
In the past few months drakes have risen by around 10 million and are still on the up. Everything is more expensive now than 3 months ago and is rising at a faster rate than I have seen in the past 6 years.
Before saying these things you might want to look at the market data which is freely available. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
295
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
In your experience yes, but then you PvP so that is the limited corner of the market that supply and demand effects the most.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
baltec1
681
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:In your experience yes, but then you PvP so that is the limited corner of the market that supply and demand effects the most.
I suppose the noctis, hulks and ravens are also massivly used in pvp too? |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
295
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:In your experience yes, but then you PvP so that is the limited corner of the market that supply and demand effects the most. I suppose the noctis, hulks and ravens are also massivly used in pvp too?
Very popular ships that are often involved (victims) in combat though
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2161
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:TLDR you basically can't inflate the price of a product in EVE much because of the way the crafting<>Auction House system works
tell me more about EVE's auction house and crafting systems
please go back to running raids in wow
"WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
295
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kind of apt you say that.
Incursion - Mass PvE - the thing that made WOW billions.
More power to you loving your PvP
Other peoples milage varies obviously
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
baltec1
681
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:
Very popular ships that are often involved (victims) in combat though
And the rise of freighters from around 700 million to over one billion?
As well as the very steep rise all minerals.
Im sorry, but you are just too stupid to be an industrialist. You know nothing about what the markets have been doing nore have you bothered to look at the records which show rising prices while sales stay steady. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
295
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:
Very popular ships that are often involved (victims) in combat though
And the rise of freighters from around 700 million to over one billion? As well as the very steep rise all minerals. Im sorry, but you are just too stupid to be an industrialist. You know nothing about what the markets have been doing nore have you bothered to look at the records which show rising prices while sales stay steady.
Freighters Baltec hey ... more wartargets....I suppose as far as being an industrialist , time will tell.....
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Came here looking for a discussion about isk/hour left seeing it degenerate into a arguement about isk fountains versus mineral fountains... LIKE IT OR NOT THE TECH MOONS ARE A HUGE MINERAL FOUNTAIN OWNED BY A VERY FEW... incursions are a large (not huge) isk fountain not owned by anyone (except maybe in NULL SOVs) but run by many... which is better or worse? neither probably would adding more moons do anything but concentrate the wealth in the hands of a few (not good in my huble opinion except to add to the # of T2 products )? Incursion spawns right now seem to be at a happy medium & increasing the number too would bring too much inflation ( not good except maybe to price out bot RMTers ).
I'm of the economic school that a little inflation is much better then any deflation. The arguement over Incursion ISK inflation is good to put out there but so is mineral inflation/deflation
A bigger problem methinks is if drones got bounties put on them (which is being discussed) instead of droping alloys then the price (inflation) of EVE minerals would really have the crud hit the fan! |
baltec1
681
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:
Freighters Baltec hey ... more wartargets....I suppose as far as being an industrialist , time will tell.....
As I said, stupid. |
Feligast
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1115
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:If you check my 'birth date' you will see I joined EVE many years ago, Prices have changed little from then , the amount of ISK in the market is huge since then.
So when did you buy this toonie with your iskies, m8m8? |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
295
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 21:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Feligast wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:If you check my 'birth date' you will see I joined EVE many years ago, Prices have changed little from then , the amount of ISK in the market is huge since then. So when did you buy this toonie with your iskies, m8m8?
A swing and a miss from a random goon troll, with the bases loaded thats got hurt the prospect of the goons leaving this thread looking anything but stupid especially with Baltec at the plate 
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Jita Alt666
932
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 21:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
What is the point of this thread?
It appears that the OP is just arguing with everyone on topics not really specific to the OP. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
295
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 21:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:What is the point of this thread?
It appears that the OP is just arguing with everyone on topics not really specific to the OP.
Discusion of branch into sub discusion about points raised, are you not familiar with this concept?
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Aldous Sancros
Carbon-16
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 21:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:baltec1 wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:
Very popular ships that are often involved (victims) in combat though
And the rise of freighters from around 700 million to over one billion? As well as the very steep rise all minerals. Im sorry, but you are just too stupid to be an industrialist. You know nothing about what the markets have been doing nore have you bothered to look at the records which show rising prices while sales stay steady. Freighters Baltec hey ... more wartargets....I suppose as far as being an industrialist , time will tell.....
What isn't a war target, in your resoning, then? I suppose it's true that the price of an Ibis hasn't nudged since way back when...that might be one of the only things. |
Jita Alt666
932
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 21:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Jita Alt666 wrote:What is the point of this thread?
It appears that the OP is just arguing with everyone on topics not really specific to the OP. Discusion of branch into sub discusion about points raised, are you not familiar with this concept?
Yes I am, it often is termed as derailment. In this thread it appears the OP is the catalyst for said "branch into sub discussion".
I never discuss anything with my subs. I just tell. |
Nephilius
Grey Legionaires
322
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 21:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:They also cause inflation and promote "No risk = Big Cash" gameplay
imo
No such thing as no risk. It's just not the kind of risk that many players consider to be 'risk'.
To stand before a man at an inquisition, knowing that he will rejoice when we die, knowing that he will commit us to the stake and its horrors without a moment's hesitation or remorse if we do not satisfy him, is not an experience much less cruel because our inquisitor does not whip us or rack us or shout at us. |
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