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The useless Ishtar bonus...solutions!!!

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Zubakis Bambooule	Posted - 2008.03.27 14:46:00 - [31] Ishtar needs a massive CPU boost. Ever tried to fit some drone modules on it? Drone rigs have penalty on ships CPU. Drone Link Augmentor: 50cpu, lol? Omnidirectional Tracking Link: 35cpu Drone Navigation Computer: 30cpu And if you want to swap the hybrid bonus, i would take the option #3 and make it an awesome sentry boat. -- Zuba
Liu State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.27 14:53:00 - [32] i would like to see this: 1st, the drone bonuses are limited to medium drones (not only on ishtar, but also on myrm, vexor, curse, etc) 2nd, the hybrid bonus changed to either another drone bonus or a tank bonus Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.27 14:54:00 - [33] Originally by: Zubakis Ishtar needs a massive CPU boost. Ever tried to fit some drone modules on it? Drone rigs have penalty on ships CPU. Drone Link Augmentor: 50cpu, lol? Omnidirectional Tracking Link: 35cpu Drone Navigation Computer: 30cpu And if you want to swap the hybrid bonus, i would take the option #3 and make it an awesome sentry boat. This is true, the modules posted above are probably mostly used for mission setup ishtars. But again, due to cpu problems, you cant fit them. Even if you blow alot of faction stuff on the ship, it will still be pretty impossible to fit them. *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
Howling Jinn Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.	Posted - 2008.03.27 14:54:00 - [34] omg hi! i just tried to fit a full neutron gank setup mega with dual reps! it didnt fit!! ccp ****** gallente royaly up the ass on this 1!!! nerf amarr! nerf caldari! nerf minmatar!!
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.27 14:56:00 - [35] Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/03/2008 15:03:11 Originally by: Howling Jinn omg hi! i just tried to fit a full neutron gank setup mega with dual reps! it didnt fit!! ccp **** gallente royaly up the ass on this 1!!! nerf amarr! nerf caldari! nerf minmatar!! Neutron and dual rep a ganksetup? -1/10 derail attempt and 110% bull. ps: A plate/gank setup domi can actually 6x of its bonussed guns in the highslots, a ishtar with a similar setup 1600mmRT/hadeners/mwd/inj can do it (with 1-2 pg rig), but then again your better off using light neutrons since they give you comparable damage to heavy electons and also you dont need the fitting mods, AND you can use the 2 utility highslots... Sig Originally by:** Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.27 15:10:00 - [36] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 27/03/2008 15:12:41 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 27/03/2008 15:10:04 f u c k this piece of s h i t forum, it ate my 300 word post. basically the point was: -your ideas are good -ccp doesnt fix ships that have bonuses/fitting that dont make sense if the ship performs well already -they choose not to change anything, because if they would "fix" ships that are odd then they would have to nerf them slightly and then fix them from the core. It prolly wont happen. -same deal why with zealot and omen fittings, it doesnt make sense but still zealot is a good ship. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.03.27 15:33:00 - [37] Originally by: arbalesttom Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/03/2008 15:03:11 Originally by: Howling Jinn omg hi! i just tried to fit a full neutron gank setup mega with dual reps! it didnt fit!! ccp **** gallente royaly up the ass on this 1!!! nerf amarr! nerf caldari! nerf minmatar!! Neutron and dual rep a ganksetup? -1/10 derail attempt and 110% bull**. ps: A plate/gank setup domi can actually 6x of its bonussed guns in the highslots, a ishtar with a similar setup 1600mmRT/hadeners/mwd/inj can do it (with 1-2 pg rig), but then again your better off using light neutrons since they give you comparable damage to heavy electons and also you dont need the fitting mods, AND you can use the 2 utility highslots... No. You are wrong. 3 heavy electorn IIs do about 180 DPS, 3 light neutron II do a pitiful 110. That is about a 40% DPS increase for the guns. Considering 5 ogres only do 475 or so, thats quite a nice overall difference. The ishtar ALSO uses medium guns in a speed fit because they can easily hit to WD II range, and they add around 100 DPS to the estup (around 20% overall, again, very nice). You'd have to be mental to lose the traditional gallente bonus that IS usable, to try and overpower a VERY BALANCED ship. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.27 15:38:00 - [38] Originally by: El Yatta Originally by: arbalesttom Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/03/2008 15:03:11 Originally by: Howling Jinn omg hi! i just tried to fit a full neutron gank setup mega with dual reps! it didnt fit!! ccp **** gallente royaly up the ass on this 1!!! nerf amarr! nerf caldari! nerf minmatar!! Neutron and dual rep a ganksetup? -1/10 derail attempt and 110% bull. ps: A plate/gank setup domi can actually 6x of its bonussed guns in the highslots, a ishtar with a similar setup 1600mmRT/hadeners/mwd/inj can do it (with 1-2 pg rig), but then again your better off using light neutrons since they give you comparable damage to heavy electons and also you dont need the fitting mods, AND you can use the 2 utility highslots... No. You are wrong. 3 heavy electorn IIs do about 180 DPS, 3 light neutron II do a pitiful 110. That is about a 40% DPS increase for the guns. Considering 5 ogres only do 475 or so, thats quite a nice overall difference. The ishtar ALSO uses medium guns in a speed fit because they can easily hit to WD II range, and they add around 100 DPS to the estup (around 20% overall, again, very nice). You'd have to be mental to lose the traditional gallente bonus that IS usable, to try and overpower a VERY BALANCED ship. Give me a 3x Heavy Electron II setup wich fits and wich has at least 1x drone mod in the utility highslots. Also, no eft warrioring, all the comparisons i made where ingame with most fitting skills to 5 and awu 4 and a 3% cpu implant. Whatever you do, the cpu/grid is badly gimped on this ship. Sig Originally by:** Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
Trevor Warps Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.27 15:50:00 - [39] WTH is wrong with the forum ppl here ? Ishtar is one of the best HAC around, and you talk about .... SOLUTIONS (!?!?!?!) about it ? Strong freaking complaining and just fit medium turrets on the boat if you want to use all the bonus. It wont be the cookie cutter forum approved setup but you still can do it. Maybe we should swap the hybrid bonus on the Domi for a +1 drone control / lvl. Or ask for extra CPU to fit em turrets but can I log two weeks in a row and have the feeling of still playing the same game, please ?
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.27 15:56:00 - [40] Originally by: Trevor Warps Ishtar is one of the best HAC around, and you talk about .... SOLUTIONS (!?!?!?!) about it ? Well, right now it's one of the best HAC's around. Once the nano nerf goes through, it won't be. I doubt it'll be useless, but it won't number in the top 4 HAC's. Also, claiming you can use your hybrid bonus if you fit a full faction setup is just a little over the top, mkay? -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.

Garmon Genos Occidere Boner Bandits	Posted - 2008.03.27 15:58:00 - [41] Ishtar is a very strong HAC, to justify boosting it by giving it a more useful bonus should also mean that one of its aspects should be nerfed __________________________________ Garmonation - Rupture fun video
Liu State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.27 16:04:00 - [42] Originally by: Garmon Ishtar is a very strong HAC, to justify boosting it by giving it a more useful bonus should also mean that one of its aspects should be nerfed yep, like i said, limiting the drone bonus to medium drones. Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
Propex AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.03.27 16:11:00 - [43] Edited by: Propex on 27/03/2008 16:13:51 Edited by: Propex on 27/03/2008 16:11:15 Originally by: arbalesttom Originally by: El Yatta Originally by: arbalesttom Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/03/2008 15:03:11 Originally by: Howling Jinn omg hi! i just tried to fit a full neutron gank setup mega with dual reps! it didnt fit!! ccp **** gallente royaly up the ass on this 1!!! nerf amarr! nerf caldari! nerf minmatar!! Neutron and dual rep a ganksetup? -1/10 derail attempt and 110% bull**. ps: A plate/gank setup domi can actually 6x of its bonussed guns in the highslots, a ishtar with a similar setup 1600mmRT/hadeners/mwd/inj can do it (with 1-2 pg rig), but then again your better off using light neutrons since they give you comparable damage to heavy electons and also you dont need the fitting mods, AND you can use the 2 utility highslots... No. You are wrong. 3 heavy electorn IIs do about 180 DPS, 3 light neutron II do a pitiful 110. That is about a 40% DPS increase for the guns. Considering 5 ogres only do 475 or so, thats quite a nice overall difference. The ishtar ALSO uses medium guns in a speed fit because they can easily hit to WD II range, and they add around 100 DPS to the estup (around 20% overall, again, very nice). You'd have to be mental to lose the traditional gallente bonus that IS usable, to try and overpower a VERY BALANCED ship. Give me a 3x Heavy Electron II setup wich fits and wich has at least 1x drone mod in the utility highslots. Also, no eft warrioring, all the comparisons i made where ingame with most fitting skills to 5 and awu 4 and a 3% cpu implant. Whatever you do, the cpu/grid is badly gimped on this ship. You asking for a drone mod in the high slot is just you being difficult. There is no reason to fit one in PvP unless you are in a gang, and if you are in a gang, and you REALLY want to send your drones out 72k-75k, here you go. 3x Heavy electrons Drone link augmentor Best named MWD x51 web Best named disrupter Omni-directional tracking link SeBo 2 800mm tungsten DCU2 EANM2 2x ANP 2 You don't even need an implant, AWU1, or WU5 to fit this. Forgo the useless high slot drone mod and you can fit ions.
Taguchi Hiroko Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.27 16:11:00 - [44] Originally by: arbalesttom The Solutions How about swapping the useless bonus for... 1) ...5% Small Railgun Turret Damage per level (or small autocannon?) 2) ...5% Drone Max Velocity per level. 3) ...5% Drone Tracking/Optimal per level (should make it a good sentry boat!). 4) ...10% Drone Hitpoints per level (drones are too easy to destroy after the shield-scoop nerf, and certainly the nano ishtar can use it badly), 5) ...??????? Myself i would say a bonus like 2), 3) and 4) are perfectly in line with the ship, because it will in theory lower the Ishtar's damage (because you lose the 5% to Medium Railgun Turret Damage per level), but foremost they will utilize the ships main source of damage, named the drones. Its a droneboat after all... Let the discussion begin! I like 2), 3 or 4 are probabily too powerful. Or, you could give it an armor rep bonus, like what myrmidon has, which effectively exclude the nano ishtars from benefiting from it, and encourages active tank Ishtars... Some good points by OP.
Taguchi Hiroko Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.27 16:14:00 - [45] BTW, did u know dominix and sin both have a hybird bonus too? That never really made much sense to me either. Kinda like giving raven a hybird bonus
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.27 16:18:00 - [46] Originally by: Propex You asking for a drone mod in the high slot is just you being difficult. There is no reason to fit one in PvP unless you are in a gang, and if you are in a gang, and you REALLY want to send your drones out 72k-75k, here you go. 3x Heavy electrons Drone link augmentor Best named MWD x51 web Best named disrupter Omni-directional tracking link SeBo 2 800mm tungsten DCU2 EANM2 2x ANP 2 You don't even need an implant, AWU1, or WU5 to fit this. Forgo the useless high slot drone mod and you can fit ions. Admit it, this setup is subpar at best, and yes its stupid you cant even fit the 2x highs decently. It is even better to use a 1x 1600mm RT 3x Light Neutron setup because it gives lots more defence at the expense of a bit less dps. *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
Propex AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.03.27 16:20:00 - [47] Originally by: arbalesttom Originally by: Propex You asking for a drone mod in the high slot is just you being difficult. There is no reason to fit one in PvP unless you are in a gang, and if you are in a gang, and you REALLY want to send your drones out 72k-75k, here you go. 3x Heavy electrons Drone link augmentor Best named MWD x51 web Best named disrupter Omni-directional tracking link SeBo 2 800mm tungsten DCU2 EANM2 2x ANP 2 You don't even need an implant, AWU1, or WU5 to fit this. Forgo the useless high slot drone mod and you can fit ions. Admit it, this setup is subpar at best, and yes its stupid you cant even fit the 2x highs decently. It is even better to use a 1x 1600mm RT 3x Light Neutron setup because it gives lots more defence at the expense of a bit less dps. Subpar compared to a nano? Sure! You asked for a fitting, and I gave you EXACTLY what you wanted.
Propex AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.03.27 16:22:00 - [48] I also don't see a problem with the light neutron setup. I love my plated Vexor.
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.27 16:44:00 - [49] Originally by: Propex Originally by: arbalesttom Originally by: Propex You asking for a drone mod in the high slot is just you being difficult. There is no reason to fit one in PvP unless you are in a gang, and if you are in a gang, and you REALLY want to send your drones out 72k-75k, here you go. 3x Heavy electrons Drone link augmentor Best named MWD x51 web Best named disrupter Omni-directional tracking link SeBo 2 800mm tungsten DCU2 EANM2 2x ANP 2 You don't even need an implant, AWU1, or WU5 to fit this. Forgo the useless high slot drone mod and you can fit ions. Admit it, this setup is subpar at best, and yes its stupid you cant even fit the 2x highs decently. It is even better to use a 1x 1600mm RT 3x Light Neutron setup because it gives lots more defence at the expense of a bit less dps. Subpar compared to a nano? Sure! You asked for a fitting, and I gave you EXACTLY what you wanted. Does that statement take away the fact the setup you gave was subpar? And no i dont blame it on you, i blame it on the ishtar's cpu/grid. *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.27 16:50:00 - [50] At least a number of people agree on the fact the Ishtar has some issues right now, and will have alot more issues when the nano-nerf strikes. It needs to be revamped, one or another way (grid/cpu, bonusses, whatever) because every sensible setup there is cant fit medium guns. Not to mention the biggest chunk of its dps is destroyable (pretty easy after the drone scoop-shielrecharge nerf) and people know how to destroy drones... It needs some love one way or another, point. *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^

Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.27 16:59:00 - [51] Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko Or, you could give it an armor rep bonus, like what myrmidon has, which effectively exclude the nano ishtars from benefiting from it, and encourages active tank Ishtars... Some good points by OP. Eh, they're good points, but the Ishtar doesn't need them yet. It's good to keep in mind as an "intended casualty" of the nano nerf though. Anyway, I like the idea of an armor rep bonus. -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.27 17:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Liang Nuren Anyway, I like the idea of an armor rep bonus. -Liang How about a armor resistance bonus or a armor hp bonus ()? *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.27 17:04:00 - [53] Originally by: arbalesttom How about a armor resistance bonus or a armor hp bonus ()? Both would arguably be overpowered (Esp right now). Resist bonuses > rep bonuses. -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.27 17:04:00 - [54] 5% velocity per lvl
Trevor Warps Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.27 17:11:00 - [55] Edited by: Trevor Warps on 27/03/2008 17:14:24 Originally by: Liang Nuren Well, right now it's one of the best HAC's around. Once the nano nerf goes through, it won't be. I doubt it'll be useless, but it won't number in the top 4 HAC's. Also, claiming you can use your hybrid bonus if you fit a full faction setup is just a little over the top, mkay? -Liang Well most HACs will go down in ranks once nano nerf hits, so it will stay about at same position. Also, good news for you. No faction gear is needed to fit med blasters on a ishtar full T2. As I said, it aint the pre-chewed forum fit but it fits perfectly well. Noticed you have to sacrifice something on the Domi to fit blasters ? Same here, nothing new. Edit : Well I lied, you have to use some best named in mids but we are far from faction stuff here.
Taguchi Hiroko Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.27 17:11:00 - [56] Originally by: kessah 5% velocity per lvl I laughed when I saw that. hahaha a vaga-ishtar!
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.27 17:17:00 - [57] Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/03/2008 17:21:38 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: arbalesttom How about a armor resistance bonus or a armor hp bonus ()? Both would arguably be overpowered (Esp right now). Resist bonuses > rep bonuses. -Liang Sounds verry true. I do think though the rep bonus is a little bit double: Without trimarks/plates/slaveset the ishtar has a bit more than 2k armor. Even with dual rep and injector, its a verry capunstable ship wich is already really hard to micro-manage (drones, overrepping, overinjecting...), ESPECIALLY because the ship has literaly no buffer without at least a plate or slaveset (i hate taking an ishtar in webrange..). On the other side, a rep bonus would open the possibility of fitting 1x Mar II and 1x plate in the lowslots, giving it a bit more buffer and still have some decent rep ability. Sounds good, but i do prefer the resistance bonus (or the max velocity bonus) *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.27 17:19:00 - [58] Originally by: Trevor Warps Well most HACs will go down in ranks once nano nerf hits, so it will stay about at same position. By definition, "most HACs" can't go down in the rankings. Quote: Edit : Well I lied, you have to use some best named in mids but we are far from faction stuff here. Well, there's nothing new there. Well, your mistakes are usually more benign than straight up lying. ;-) -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.27 17:19:00 - [59] Originally by: Trevor Warps Edited by: Trevor Warps on 27/03/2008 17:14:24 Originally by: Liang Nuren Well, right now it's one of the best HAC's around. Once the nano nerf goes through, it won't be. I doubt it'll be useless, but it won't number in the top 4 HAC's. Also, claiming you can use your hybrid bonus if you fit a full faction setup is just a little over the top, mkay? -Liang Well most HACs will go down in ranks once nano nerf hits, so it will stay about at same position. Also, good news for you. No faction gear is needed to fit med blasters on a ishtar full T2. As I said, it aint the pre-chewed forum fit but it fits perfectly well. Noticed you have to sacrifice something on the Domi to fit blasters ? Same here, nothing new. Edit : Well I lied, you have to use some best named in mids but we are far from faction stuff here. Friendly question, would you mind posting your setup? I guess its a 800mm RT plate setup? *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
Justice Bringer Space-Bar FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.03.27 17:22:00 - [60] Originally by: arbalesttom Originally by: Zubakis Ishtar needs a massive CPU boost. Ever tried to fit some drone modules on it? Drone rigs have penalty on ships CPU. Drone Link Augmentor: 50cpu, lol? Omnidirectional Tracking Link: 35cpu Drone Navigation Computer: 30cpu And if you want to swap the hybrid bonus, i would take the option #3 and make it an awesome sentry boat. This is true, the modules posted above are probably mostly used for mission setup ishtars. But again, due to cpu problems, you cant fit them. Even if you blow alot of faction stuff on the ship, it will still be pretty impossible to fit them. No this is not true. It is possible to fit the Ishtar with medium guns and drone mods and still have space left for a tank, but you will need to use faction mods. Observe: High 3 x Heavy Electron II, 1 x Med and 1 x Small Diminsihing Nos Med 10MN AB, TS Med Cap Booster, Fleeting Web, Drone Nav Comp, Omni Tracking Link Low TS Med Repper, TS Exp, TS EM, 2 x TS EANM Rigs As you please, The above all fits with those two Drone mods, it's not cheap granted but the TS/Dark Blood mods used to be relatively cheap (relatively ). If you want to fit more than two mods and maybe even rigs, well then you know you have to come up with another setup entirely. I've had a setup that used the Drone Link Augmentor and 2 x Drone Nav Comps to make my drones get to over 100km range in under 5 seconds and if you're in a fleet battle then you'll want to get them there quickly, do damamge and then get them back again. There is no way to completely outfit an Ishtar with Tech II mods as for sure it runs out of juice, so for that reason sure it would require some help, but with a 5,5,5 slot layout if CCP did boost this then the Ishtar would be totally insane. So you have to compromise on what you fit depending upon what you want to do, so don't be greedy and you'll find a setup that suits what you need to accomplish. Whatever you do, don't have any empty slots on your Ishtar, that's just a waste and you'll end up in trouble. Justice



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