EVE Search - EvE is a Sand Box

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

EvE is a Sand Box

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Re Mi Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:33:00 - [1] I am getting a bit sick of all the anti-carebear asshattery. With basic precaution, yes it is true you can survive a suicide gank. However, the vitriol and hatred shown towards carebears is what I find annoying. People are acting as if being a carebear should be excluded from the game, as if just because someone likes to mine Veld in a 1.0 they should be punished. Eve is designed as a sandbox. I know one person who has some kids with some health issues, so he often has to stay up late at night. He logs on to chat and mine some roids. He plays eve for the Zen experience of mining and as a break from the intense pressures of RL, he picked EvE specifically because he had the option NOT to pvp. He no longer logs on much. I know another person who logs on with his kids. They mine and build their own ships. Its kind of sickening to see people hurt his kids (revenge was severe and disproportionate). For some its not about pvp at all, they want to play in a world that is more innocent, and more predictable, they don't want politics and viciousness and backstabbing and lying and murder and mayhem. Thats why they live in Empire and mine. Some pvpers just can't seem to wrap their brains around that. I think it is foolish to demand that everyone go out to 0.0 and pew pew. And frankly it would wreck the game for them. They log on with completely different expectations. You also need to understand who miners are. Miners are often people who mine while they surf the web and do email. They live busy lives and are quasi afk almost all the time. They often have schedules that don't allow them to work in a large pvp gang, they don' have the time to dedicate to that. They are people who multi task. Its a lifestyle requirement for them to play the game while doing other things. They click a button every couple of minutes in between Youtube videos or doing their laundry. That is another part of the sandbox for many carebears, it is what drives them towards the carebear world. You can say, "they should be paying attention". I reply, "why". Its a sandbox, if thats how they want to play, more power to them. They should be able to do that. There is nothing wrong with that. There is another mindset a work here as well. Some people view EvE like a large scale version of Sim City or Railroad Tycoon. You build your little empire over time. You buy a Hulk, a Freighter, and make a little commercial operation and have fun selling and figuring out market niches. They could care less about pew pew, but they absolutely adore their spread sheets and piles of widgets. Some are the kind of people who use the API in new ways and build apps that automate things. They take prudent precautions, but the randomness of these ganks makes their spread sheets useless. It wrecks their ability to have fun. They don't want to spend their time researching pvp ship builds, they could even dispense with graphics and sound, its the abstraction of the organization, how it is tied together and how it grows that they find appealing. The current situation with suicide ganking is a problem, not because it is a war individual players, but because it has vastly escalated to the point where this has become a war on an occupation and a way of playing the game. Thusly, it is a war on the idea of the sandbox itself. I will mine all the emo tears for Hydrogen Isotopes when they nerf it, and then sell them at inflated prices. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Marcus TheMartin Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:38:00 - [2] I can respect that you wish to mine I can't respect the inital investment of skills + ship + modules when in highsec = money Sure there is potential of getting shot for just the hell of it but how often pre jihad has it happened?
Quelque Chose University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:38:00 - [3] Meh. It's just like the weps vs instagib flamewars on UT forums. If you've got one game and multiple ways to play it people will inevitably fall into an us vs them mentality... especially in this game since the game mechanics mean it really IS "us vs them" in a real and direct sense. Probably best not to take it personally. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Animenick Phoenix Remnant	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:39:00 - [4] Originally by: Re Mi I am getting a bit sick of all the anti-carebear asshattery. With basic precaution, yes it is true you can survive a suicide gank. However, the vitriol and hatred shown towards carebears is what I find annoying. People are acting as if being a carebear should be excluded from the game, as if just because someone likes to mine Veld in a 1.0 they should be punished. Eve is designed as a sandbox. I know one person who has some kids with some health issues, so he often has to stay up late at night. He logs on to chat and mine some roids. He plays eve for the Zen experience of mining and as a break from the intense pressures of RL, he picked EvE specifically because he had the option NOT to pvp. He no longer logs on much. I know another person who logs on with his kids. They mine and build their own ships. Its kind of sickening to see people hurt his kids (revenge was severe and disproportionate). For some its not about pvp at all, they want to play in a world that is more innocent, and more predictable, they don't want politics and viciousness and backstabbing and lying and murder and mayhem. Thats why they live in Empire and mine. Some pvpers just can't seem to wrap their brains around that. I think it is foolish to demand that everyone go out to 0.0 and pew pew. And frankly it would wreck the game for them. They log on with completely different expectations. You also need to understand who miners are. Miners are often people who mine while they surf the web and do email. They live busy lives and are quasi afk almost all the time. They often have schedules that don't allow them to work in a large pvp gang, they don' have the time to dedicate to that. They are people who multi task. Its a lifestyle requirement for them to play the game while doing other things. They click a button every couple of minutes in between Youtube videos or doing their laundry. That is another part of the sandbox for many carebears, it is what drives them towards the carebear world. You can say, "they should be paying attention". I reply, "why". Its a sandbox, if thats how they want to play, more power to them. They should be able to do that. There is nothing wrong with that. There is another mindset a work here as well. Some people view EvE like a large scale version of Sim City or Railroad Tycoon. You build your little empire over time. You buy a Hulk, a Freighter, and make a little commercial operation and have fun selling and figuring out market niches. They could care less about pew pew, but they absolutely adore their spread sheets and piles of widgets. Some are the kind of people who use the API in new ways and build apps that automate things. They take prudent precautions, but the randomness of these ganks makes their spread sheets useless. It wrecks their ability to have fun. They don't want to spend their time researching pvp ship builds, they could even dispense with graphics and sound, its the abstraction of the organization, how it is tied together and how it grows that they find appealing. The current situation with suicide ganking is a problem, not because it is a war individual players, but because it has vastly escalated to the point where this has become a war on an occupation and a way of playing the game. Thusly, it is a war on the idea of the sandbox itself. I will mine all the emo tears for Hydrogen Isotopes when they nerf it, and then sell them at inflated prices. Agreed.
Avon Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:41:00 - [5] Edited by: Avon on 28/03/2008 19:41:24 The thing with sandboxes is that no matter how many different shaped buckets and rakes and spades and stuff you give people, and how many different and exciting castles and things they build, none of that is quite as much fun as stomping on them. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Marcus TheMartin Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:42:00 - [6] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 28/03/2008 19:41:24 The thing with sandboxes is that no matter how many different shaped buckets and rakes and spades and stuff you give people, and how many different and exciting castles and things they build, none of that is quite as much fun as stomping on them. I like the cut of your jib
Billy Sastard Life. Universe. Everything. Rejuvenate	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:42:00 - [7] Quote: he picked EvE specifically because he had the option NOT to pvp Sorry, he was misinformed, yes you have the option of avoiding pvp, but not the option of being immune to pvp. Playing smart is the best way to facilitate avoidance of pvp, you cannot sit around and assume that you are safe because you dont want to pvp. This is EVE, this is the way it works, if you(or him) cannot handle it, maybe this isn't the right place to be. Quote: For some its not about pvp at all, they want to play in a world that is more innocent, and more predictable, they don't want politics and viciousness and backstabbing and lying and murder and mayhem. Then these people don't want EVE, they want some ideological happyhappyspaceland which, again is not this game that we all signed up for. Quote: Its a sandbox, if thats how they want to play, more power to them. They should be able to do that. There is nothing wrong with that. Yea its a sandbox, but why should the people who choose a more violent approach to their game be restricted because certain people do not want to fight? That would nullify the sandbox aspect now wouldnt it? The long and the short of it is, EVE is not a happy happy place, if you cannot stand to play intelligently (eg, learn to avoid and/or deal with dangerous situations) then you probably shouldnt play!!! -=^=-
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:43:00 - [8] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 28/03/2008 19:41:24 The thing with sandboxes is that no matter how many different shaped buckets and rakes and spades and stuff you give people, and how many different and exciting castles and things they build, none of that is quite as much fun as stomping on them. That's why we need more sharp things that we can put in the sandcastles. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.3 (Updated 3/24)
Avon Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Tarminic That's why we need more sharp things that we can put in the sandcastles. Agreed, but also a better variety of boots. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Asestorian Domination. Scorched Earth.	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:47:00 - [10] So wait, you want a sandbox for the carebears, but the PvPers aren't allowed one? If you have a sandbox, every side has to accept every other side's playstyle. Carebears are allowed to not actively participate in PvP, that's fine, but they cannot expect to be completely safe from it. The sandbox means that while they are allowed to mine, PvPers are allowed to shoot them. Suicide ganking in itself is not a problem. It exists precisely because there is a sandbox. Maybe there is too much of it going on, but you cannot remove it as an option entirely. Because that's a war on the sandbox itself. --- MOZO
Re Mi Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I can respect that you wish to mine I can't respect the inital investment of skills + ship + modules when in highsec = money Sure there is potential of getting shot for just the hell of it but how often pre jihad has it happened? Skills has nothing to do with it. Newb to 2003 old hand, can both be carebears. Its what you want and how they play the game that is important to them. They deserve to have a place in the sandbox. Getting shot pre-jihad was very rare. But getting shot isn't the point. Even if they don't get killed at all, the way they have played the game, for years in some cases, is being taken away. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Ankhesentapemkah Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:48:00 - [12] An excellent post, and excellent points. I think casual play is, and should continue to be, a valid playstyle for Eve. Eve is a game, and people play games to relax. People play in highsec because they do not want a frantic rat-race, they want to sit back and play without Eve demanding their undivided attention. For this reason, I disagree when people say "keep watching local till you got eyestrain, and keep your hand on the mouse at all times so your ship remains perfectly aligned with the station so you can twitch it back to safety for when those punks show up!" Try mining for a day with the game having your undivided attention, I don't think you can manage that without your brain protesting. Now try mining while watching a movie or browsing the net. I think the latter is perfectly acceptable and shouldn't be punished by suicide gankings. Eve isn't a cold and harsh world, it's what the players make of it. I think the players decribed in the OP are doing nothing but good for the game. --- Take Care is the CSM party for the free and independant players! Contact us and let us relay your ideas to CCP! Visit our Campaign Website
Billy Sastard Life. Universe. Everything. Rejuvenate	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Re Mi Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I can respect that you wish to mine I can't respect the inital investment of skills + ship + modules when in highsec = money Sure there is potential of getting shot for just the hell of it but how often pre jihad has it happened? Skills has nothing to do with it. Newb to 2003 old hand, can both be carebears. Its what you want and how they play the game that is important to them. They deserve to have a place in the sandbox. Getting shot pre-jihad was very rare. But getting shot isn't the point. Even if they don't get killed at all, the way they have played the game, for years in some cases, is being taken away. It is not being 'taken away'... The sandbox is just changing. That is, afterall, the nature of this sort of thing isnt it? What is that one catchphrase that has been bandied about since well before I started playing? Oh yea.. ADAPT OR DIE! -=^=-
Hamfast Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Billy Sastard Quote: Its a sandbox, if thats how they want to play, more power to them. They should be able to do that. There is nothing wrong with that. Yea its a sandbox, but why should the people who choose a more violent approach to their game be restricted because certain people do not want to fight? That would nullify the sandbox aspect now wouldnt it? The long and the short of it is, EVE is not a happy happy place, if you cannot stand to play intelligently (eg, learn to avoid and/or deal with dangerous situations) then you probably shouldnt play!!! I wanted to agree with you, Eve is definitely a game that if you can't stand to play intelligently with all the stupid players then you should be finding another game... the draw back is the stupid players have it so much easier then the rest of us... --------*****-------- Learn and be informed, because a Politicians worst nightmare is an informed voter... So choose your CSM Candidates wisely
Karina Bellac Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:51:00 - [15] Everyone has the option of being immune to ship-based PvP. Don't undock.
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:52:00 - [16] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 28/03/2008 19:41:24 The thing with sandboxes is that no matter how many different shaped buckets and rakes and spades and stuff you give people, and how many different and exciting castles and things they build, none of that is quite as much fun as stomping on them. Opinion. I respect it and understand your view. Nonetheless, it's an opinion. I happen to like building more than destroying. Build ships, build stuff, build isk, build commerce, build empires. It's why I mostly play. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Avon Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:52:00 - [17] Originally by: Re Mi They deserve to have a place in the sandbox. Of course they do. What would Eve be without victims? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
OwlManAtt Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:52:00 - [18] Quote: He plays eve for the Zen experience of mining and as a break from the intense pressures of RL, he picked EvE specifically because he had the option NOT to pvp. As evidenced by suicide ganks upon random unsuspecting players, this is simply not true. No matter how many times it gets repeated - that highsec is the "I don't want to PvP" flag - it won't become true, because I still have the option (and in some cases, the incentive) to come and suicide gank you. EvE is primarily designed as a PvP game. It has been designed that way since day one, and the 'carebear community' is feeling the consequences of that decision especially hard as of late. It does not matter if most people think highsec = safe. It does not matter if EvE is marketed as having a non-PvP area to play in. All that matters is that people can fly up to you in highsec and hit F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 F6 F7 F8 and kill you - because that is what is the reality of the situation. Understanding that the reality of the situation is that EvE was designed to have combat PvP action be the most important factor in gameplay is key to this entire suicide-ganking debate. I don't say this to be mean or clever or clichT - I say it quite seriously. EvE is about combat with other players. There are many ways to fund and engage in that activity, but, by design, it all comes back to combat with other players. If that is not the style of game you would like to play, then you should consider spending your time on another activity. --- Owl
Avon Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Exlegion Opinion. I respect it and understand your view. Nonetheless, it's an opinion. I happen to like building more than destroying. Build ships, build stuff, build isk, build commerce, build empires. It's why I mostly play. I'm in a bit of a funny mood tonight. There is nothing wrong with wanting to build stuff. However, the desire to build should not make you immune to other people's desire to destroy. That is exactly the point of a sandbox game. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Hamfast Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Exlegion Opinion. I respect it and understand your view. Nonetheless, it's an opinion. I happen to like building more than destroying. Build ships, build stuff, build isk, build commerce, build empires. It's why I mostly play. I'm in a bit of a funny mood tonight. There is nothing wrong with wanting to build stuff. However, the desire to build should not make you immune to other people's desire to destroy. That is exactly the point of a sandbox game. you can do it, I don't have to enjoy it... the less I enjoy, the more likely I am to find another outlet for my time and money... me and all my 4072 accounts and 5685 friends --------*****-------- Learn and be informed, because a Politicians worst nightmare is an informed voter... So choose your CSM Candidates wisely
Overwhelmed Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:00:00 - [21] The closer you get to actually defining what "sandbox gameplay" means, the more you will realize "sandbox therefore something about how PvP should work" is such a heinous non-sequitur that you and your entire family deserved to be griefed for the consequential brain damage.
Avon Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:00:00 - [22] Originally by: Hamfast me and all my 4072 accounts and 5685 friends OMG! Can I have all their stuffs? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:00:00 - [23] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Exlegion Opinion. I respect it and understand your view. Nonetheless, it's an opinion. I happen to like building more than destroying. Build ships, build stuff, build isk, build commerce, build empires. It's why I mostly play. I'm in a bit of a funny mood tonight. There is nothing wrong with wanting to build stuff. However, the desire to build should not make you immune to other people's desire to destroy. That is exactly the point of a sandbox game. Agreed. Just wanted to point out, however, that everyone's taste is different. And people play and enjoy this game for different reasons. And as long as a balance between all playstyles is maintained then all is good and well. The real problem is where does that happy medium lie. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:00:00 - [24] Edited by: Cloora on 28/03/2008 20:05:29 I 100% agree with the OP. And to the people saying it is the PvPers sandbox as well to suicide carebears, we understand that. It can happen. We realize that. I take precautions (I am pretty safe because of all the steps I take to protect from ganks but it is STILL possible if the ganker wants to throw enough at me) to ensure I will be as safe as possible. I mine in a Gistii fitted Hulk I haul with another account in a Bustard I have my PvP alt sitting in a Harbinger or Absolution ready to gank any ore theives or try to protect the Hulk. This person has a mining link in the last high slot to also decrease my cycle times and increase my yields with mining foreman bonuses. I use an alt that is in a noob corp and come shoot my Hulk so CONCORD is already in the belt ready to fire on any suiciders. It would be tough to take me out but still possible and I realize this. However, what the OP is trying to tell people is all the HATE that comes to my kind are unwarrented. If you want to shoot at Hulks because you think it woudl be fun thats one thing. But to try to justify it because you hate how we make ISK for very little risk. I make about 10 million ISK/hour mining Plag and Veld in high sec in my Hulk with VERY high skills. I make even more then that missioning in High sec with just as little risk. (All 3 of my characters are VERY skilled in thier Battleship and "we" rip through lvl 4 missions and salvage them in no time. I did WC4 in 22 minutes. Both sides) Why do they not target mission runners? What makes them differant then a miner? At least with mining I can get up and help my wife with my kid and I can complete my online schooling ot prepare a lesson plan. That is my style. Why do you hate it? I don't hate PvP. I have a PvP alt for pete's sake. I LOVE to PvP but I need ISK to do it and I don't always have the time to get on Vent with a group of people and go out and pew pew. So stop spewing hate at carebears. We pay our money too so that CCP can continue to develop this wonderful for all of us.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:02:00 - [25] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 28/03/2008 19:41:24 The thing with sandboxes is that no matter how many different shaped buckets and rakes and spades and stuff you give people, and how many different and exciting castles and things they build, none of that is quite as much fun as stomping on them. That's why we need more sharp things that we can put in the sandcastles. Let loose the kittens!? ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Re Mi Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Asestorian So wait, you want a sandbox for the carebears, but the PvPers aren't allowed one? If you have a sandbox, every side has to accept every other side's playstyle. Carebears are allowed to not actively participate in PvP, that's fine, but they cannot expect to be completely safe from it. The sandbox means that while they are allowed to mine, PvPers are allowed to shoot them. Suicide ganking in itself is not a problem. It exists precisely because there is a sandbox. Maybe there is too much of it going on, but you cannot remove it as an option entirely. Because that's a war on the sandbox itself. I never asked for perfect safety. Read the OP again. Nowhere do I ask for that. It is part of the asshat argument that interjects that. PvPers have a place in the sandbox. All of 0.0 and low sec. They also have the wardec as well so can smash sandcastles. But all aspects have limits and give players a general sphere where they feel comfortable/have fun playing, and have a platform to build their avatar on. Carebears do not want to live in fear. Thats why carebears live in Empire, that is the reason they chose to do what they do, it is what defines it as a place in the sandbox. If they must live in fear, their place in the sandbox goes away for some. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Avon Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Cloora So stop spewing hate at carebears. We pay our money too so that CCP can continue to develop this wonderful for all of us. I think you are somewhat missing the point. You do all the right stuff to minimise the risks, and accept that there is still some small risk involved. That is hardly being a carebear, that is being a responsible industrialist. A carebear would like to mine in your Hulk with less risk than you have now, and with the game mechanics replacing all the precautions which you take responisbility for in order to mitigate your risks. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Billy Sastard Life. Universe. Everything. Rejuvenate	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Re Mi If they must live in fear, their place in the sandbox goes away for some. Umm.. They do not have to live in any more fear than anyone else who plays EVE. It is their choice to play the game as they do, yes, but with that choice comes the responsibility of knowing that your play-style makes you a juicy target for opportunistic people. -=^=-
Asestorian Domination. Scorched Earth.	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Cloora Why do they not target mission runners? What makes them differant then a miner? At least with mining I can get up and help my wife with my kid and I can complete my online schooling ot prepare a lesson plan. The vast majority of PvPers, including suicide gankers, don't target miners because they hate them for mining, they do it because miners are the easiest targets. There are plenty of people who attack mission runners, but the problem is that it's difficult to suicide gank them, so instead you need to play tricks and hope that they are stupid/distracted enough to fall for them. If you are specifically talking about JihadSwarm, then you're in another realm. Goons are Goons, and they just love to grief people in various ways. Indeed, it is also possible to argue from various internal communications of there's that have been posted in CAOD that their goal is to destroy EVE. PvPers are difficult to destroy through grief, so they target those that they can: the carebears. It's no good arguing with Goons, and the argument is pointless against other PvPers because we already know, understand and accept you people Ultimately our problem isn't with carebears, but with the attitude some of them have that it is their right to have total immunity from PvPers, when in EVE, it isn't. I actually somewhat blame that attitude and the people who posted on these forums with that attitude for the much greater PvPer/Carebear divide that now exists. Of course, the best people are those who like both, like me and yourself, Cloora --- MOZO
Re Mi Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:15:00 - [30] Originally by: Billy Sastard Quote: For some its not about pvp at all, they want to play in a world that is more innocent, and more predictable, they don't want politics and viciousness and backstabbing and lying and murder and mayhem. Then these people don't want EVE, they want some ideological happyhappyspaceland which, again is not this game that we all signed up for. And yes. Happy happy spaceland. You do not speak for "we all". You speak for you. It isn't up to you to tell other people how they should play the game. Again, according to the people who made this game, it is a sandbox, there should be room for multiple play styles, not just yours. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.