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Futureface01
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Posted - 2008.03.30 15:36:00 -
[151]
Hey OP:
You must be new around here. Creating a thread like this does you more harm than good. Empire dwellers stay to themselves and mind their own business. 0.0 - 0.4 dwellers are just in the business of poping easy targets. It is worth their time to vigilantly make up all kinds of BS to support their "theories" on why everyone should go out to 0.0 - 0.4. Once one of them posts a wall of text thats particularly scornful of empire dwellers they all quote each other and say "OMG TRUTH" etc...
In the end its all propaganda. They PROFIT from you leaving empire. If you go to 0.4 or lower before you are ready to do so, you die. And they get to loot you. The more underskilled, underfunded, and unexperienced people they can persaude CCP to push out of empire the more fun they get to have (at your expense) and the fatter their wallet.
Every time a thread like this pops up its almost 10 to 1 PVP vs Non-pvp for the simple reason that Empire dwellers dont have much incentive to post. They dont need to lobby CCP to change the 0.0 game to fuel their enjoyment/wallet.
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Sarakiel
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.03.30 16:12:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Sarakiel on 30/03/2008 16:15:51
Originally by: RigelKentaurus
It's time to wake up and get out of that nice little dream. Do you really think CCP hasn't grown at all since 2004 and thus, won't see anything wrong with losing a non-neglectable part of their playerbase?
Its time to wake up and realise what the empire player really is to CCP.
Do you really think the devs are happy seeing the driving purpose of their game being completely lost by 3/4 of their playerbase? Sure they've learnt to deal with it. They tout that its a player run universe and hence all players have chosen how they want to play. But the whole design of the game is oriented towards 0.0. They know that every appeasement of empire players detracts from the progression of the development of the complexity of the player run microcosm.
The empire player is like a stripper who thinks shes found a real relationship when she gets married to man who still wants her to keep working for the 'family'. Shes wanted as long as she doesnt make his life too hard, he'll make a token effort everytime she bittches and whines loud enough but if she gets to be even a light hassle she'll find her bags on the driveway.
To the developers empire players are just this. The money's good, but clearly they have no intention of enriching your game experience at the cost of their dream. If the dollar was above all else empire would be a far richer experience than it is. Theres a seemingly infinite number of features they could have changed to make it more appealing to the majority of MMO players. Not just EvE players, all mmo players. If the almighty dollar was their only concern they'd have rewritten this game to be like every other formulaic mmo because as you said they got a monopoly on the spaceship skin.
Now, would they pull a CU/NGE and introduce it all at once? No, they're not as stupid as those over at SOE. They'd strategically release minor changes that some of the playerbase would whine about while others would rejoice. A little after you came to accept the last change they'd release the next and would subtlety change the game but not enough to force any significant drop in playerbase. Eventually two years later you'd see a whole new game with the same skin. SWG did it wrong, monetarily successful mmo's do it right. Its adaptation.
I'm sorry but you don't have a case to suggest that the developers at CCP have even come close to abandoning their value of freedom they have in their job. You also fail to recognise that job value extends beyond profit especially considering the career-building value a CCP employee will have as an employee who helped set the model for every future player run universe. The beauty of capitalism combined with human emotions is it can be just as valuable to appeal to a niche market as it is to appeal to the lowest common denominator. If CCP abandons the value its placed on developing the only player run mmorpg then it will be a sad day, but another initiative will rise to take their place and hone their game to capture the niche demographic CCP was initially going for.
Its why I say I have faith that they will not put aside their dreams. I don't know. But signs seem to suggest that if EvE lost its entire empire playerbase (meaning they'd only be making 9 million a year gross) they'd still have more than enough to keep food on the table and now be able to put all their efforts towards developing closer towards the impossibility of a fully player run universe. On a side note, empire players don't for a second think that without you we couldn't war. Your a luxury. If the state of the game changed then the nature of combat would change. 0.0 players would adapt. It would be nothing more than a selection pressure rewarding adaptation. The only change that might need to be made is shrinking space to increase competitive purposeful play.
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Inconstant Moon
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Posted - 2008.03.30 16:45:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Sarakiel You also fail to recognise that job value extends beyond profit especially considering the career-building value a CCP employee will have as an employee who helped set the model for every future player run universe.
"Excel Online in Space with Griefing" is going to be the model for all future internet spaceships? Dear jeebus just kill me now.
-- CONCORD provides neither consequences nor safety. |
Victor Forge
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Posted - 2008.03.30 16:53:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Victor Forge on 30/03/2008 16:55:58
Originally by: Sarakiel Edited by: Sarakiel on 30/03/2008 16:26:29
Its time to wake up and realise what the empire player really is to CCP.
The empire player is like a stripper who thinks shes found a real relationship when she gets married to man who still wants her to keep working for the 'family'. Shes wanted as long as she's only making his life more comfortable, he'll make a token effort everytime she bittches and whines loud enough but if she gets to be even a light hassle she'll find her bags on the driveway.
On a side note, empire players don't for a second think that without you we couldn't war. Your a luxury. If the state of the game changed then the nature of combat would change. 0.0 players would adapt. It would be nothing more than a selection pressure rewarding adaptation. The only change that might need to be made is shrinking space to increase competitive purposeful play. shrinking space to increase competitive purposeful play.
So now Empire players are strippers in the eyes of CCP? And you know exactly what CCP wants? I want a blue responce on that. So that is why I reported you.
Because I am just as curious as anyone else what CCP thinks about you thoughts about CCPs attitude to Empire players.
And according to you the player base in 0.0 doesnŠt need the players in High-sec. Then we donŠt have any problem, so we are we arguing?
There is no problem that players stays in High-sec and play the game the way they want it and there is no problem that 0.0 players stays in 0.0 and plays the game the way they want it. Since they can adapt there is no reason for them to ask / demand / force us to leave High-sec.
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Sarakiel
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.03.30 17:38:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Sarakiel on 30/03/2008 17:41:48
Quote:
And according to you the player base in 0.0 doesnŠt need the players in High-sec. Then we donŠt have any problem, so we are we arguing?
This reveals yet again another person who seems to be incapable of taking the initiative to understand the terms of the debate. The argument is based around the fact that the existence of the current state of the empire playerbase hinders the progression of the game's ideolistic goals. It may one day in the wrong hands even change the motivations of the company to be willing to compromise their initial ideals for the sake of profit.
Quote:
There is no problem that players stays in High-sec and play the game the way they want it and there is no problem that 0.0 players stays in 0.0 and plays the game the way they want it. Since they can adapt there is no reason for them to ask / demand / force us to leave High-sec.
There is a problem with every anti-player-run-universe token handed to the empire playerbase giving them more reason to stay in empire and even less reason to compete over 0.0 the idealistic goal of designing a game geared towards being a fully player run universe
Originally by: Victor Forge
So now Empire players are strippers in the eyes of CCP? And you know exactly what CCP wants? I want a Community Manager responce on that. So that is why I reported you.
Your an idiot to expect a legitimate response from community managers, and expecting their response to act as a valid rebuttal to my claims. Look at actions, not words. Use critical thought and you'll see that developer initiatives would've started years ago to turn this game into WoW in space. Actions reveal far more truth than words.
Thankfully Jumpgate Evolution is coming and this will act as a pressure forcing CCP to consider re-designing their game to be WoW in space or simply accept that they have the niche market that is those desiring the fully player run universe/server. An empire player is not unlike a not yet potty trained toddler. With enough work you can convince him to not defecate all over EvE. |
Overwhelmed
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.30 17:50:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Overwhelmed on 30/03/2008 17:50:20
Originally by: Sarakiel -snip-
While your stripper metaphor is hardly helpful or accurate in of itself, I have to point out you shouldn't be too worried about CCP sacrificing the vision to chase dollar bills.
First of all, any major change in an MMO, no matter how "good" it is, is bound to lose players and even new players will wonder if it will go back.
Secondly, there are many, many niche products that have committed market suicide, if you will, by attempting to reach a broader base and consequentially alienating their niche fans while not necessarily captivating the interest of the general populace.
We know this too. If EVE turned into "WoW in space," it would be a terrible game by any measure. . .
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Judge Ment
Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate Aeon Group Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.03.30 17:55:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Overwhelmed Edited by: Overwhelmed on 30/03/2008 17:50:20
Originally by: Sarakiel -snip-
While your stripper metaphor is hardly helpful or accurate in of itself, I have to point out you shouldn't be too worried about CCP sacrificing the vision to chase dollar bills.
First of all, any major change in an MMO, no matter how "good" it is, is bound to lose players and even new players will wonder if it will go back.
Secondly, there are many, many niche products that have committed market suicide, if you will, by attempting to reach a broader base and consequentially alienating their niche fans while not necessarily captivating the interest of the general populace.
We know this too. If EVE turned into "WoW in space," it would be a terrible game by any measure. . .
LOL, after thinking about this for a bit. tbh: I think the only reason I play this game is because of my friends In game.
Sorry if bit off topic.. very good read TY for opening my eyes
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Sarakiel
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.03.30 18:06:00 -
[158]
Edited by: Sarakiel on 30/03/2008 18:09:37
Originally by: Overwhelmed
Secondly, there are many, many niche products that have committed market suicide, if you will, by attempting to reach a broader base and consequentially alienating their niche fans while not necessarily captivating the interest of the general populace.
We know this too. If EVE turned into "WoW in space," it would be a terrible game by any measure. . .
I agree with you that there are niche products that have committed suicide by appealing to the lowest common denominator
I'll elaborate my point though by saying this. If CCP wanted WoW in Space they would've done it a long time ago because they already have the playerbase that wants it. Empire players are playing WoW in Space. -Take away the extremely casual leveling system and replace it with a regularly casual leveling system. -Take away the space skin and put in cartoon fantasy characters. -Add a weak structure building system compared to games like that of Anarchy Online. -Substitute the intellectually devoid reward one feels from being an asswhole popping haulers in empire with low level outdoor ganking on a pvp server. -Install arenas/battlegrounds -Enhance the pve system to actually be stimulating and rewarding
There's WoW in a nutshell
The only thing that empire players get out of EvE that WoW doesnt offer is a statistically complex set of variables that define your ships effectiveness. WoW's character customisation (in EvE thats ship customisation) is tailored for kindergardeners. There are many mmo's out there though that offer everything else an empire player wants with the feature of statistically complex character customisation if the player is willing to accept a different skin on his GUI and put in a comparably miniscule amount of time towards statistically progressing through 'levels' for the richer game experience that comes later.
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nkdan
Online Assault
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Posted - 2008.03.30 18:17:00 -
[159]
So much eliteist EVE nonsense in this thread, a small minority of players who consider themselves the crux of EVE trying to force how others should play the game.
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Judge Ment
Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate Aeon Group Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.03.30 18:28:00 -
[160]
You have to love EVE..
Regardless your skill training was made to push you out to low-sec. For those who wish to fly ships like Carrier and dread. These ships only have one reason TBH (Thats to PVP) or (Pos War)
So in other words
You completed STEP 1 (in training) Now time to Complete STEP 2 STEP 3 Forces you to move to POINT A POINT A Doesnt supply enough isk Time to move to POINT B
Repeat Steps!
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PeHD0M
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.30 18:53:00 -
[161]
Or you can just sit in carr\dred on station, while chatting with friends and never undock
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Sarakiel
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.03.30 20:00:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Sarakiel on 30/03/2008 20:03:53
Originally by: PeHD0M
From all threads that i've read lately, there is two major oppinion regarding suicide gankers: 1. PvE players\Buisy players: we dont touch you in lowsec\0.0 so dont touch us. Make it stop all those killings of peace players. Dont ruin our fun and gameplay. 2. PvP players: this is PvP game, all lazy carebear go to lowsec\0.0 (so we can either easy kill you, or just make you our slaves and force you to work for us in 0.0) or go play other game.
I guess it's up to ccp to decide who is right. Either they need PvE players in EVE and cut insurance for criminals or it stays the way it is now and lost a lot of PvE players (especially when another space mmorpg will show up).
The beauty of it is CCP's ideology holds that the decision is no longer their's to make. They've made the game the way they wanted it to be and now they want nearly all decisions in the hands of the players.
The question is, will they compromise this ideology for the sake of profit when games like Jumpgate Evolution go live and start pulling all those players that really want WoW in Space and not EvE Online.
Goonswarm may or not have initiated jihadswarm for the sake of the 'lulz' but either way in principle it is what makes EvE unique. Player initiatives change the game, rather than being bound by its structure they use its structure to create new levels of the game. Jihadswarm has had the short term effect of changing market prices, but it also has the potential to affect the game longterm by forcing empire players to re-evaluate the risk vs reward nature of 0.0.
If empire players aren't going to take the initiative to realise the value of 0.0 play, then its up to 0.0 players that want the game to accelerate to a higher level of play to give empire players reason to come to 0.0. That can be through making the transition as easy/comfortable/attractive as possible (bait them with candy) or by making life miserable enough in empire that players will re-evaluate whether they should move to 0.0 or leave the game altogether.
I personally believe you get more with appealing to a person's desires rather than fears (whats that phrase, more with sugar than sour, something like that :P), but hey i'm happy to see that Goonswarms efforts have made a dent in at least forcing players that hinder the games progression to quit the game altogether.
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Hekilo Tetsatz
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Posted - 2008.03.30 20:23:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Sarakiel
This reveals yet again another person who seems to be incapable of taking the initiative to understand the terms of the debate. The argument is based around the fact that the existence of the current state of the empire playerbase hinders the progression of the game's ideolistic goals.
How? You've all ready stated that CCP doesn't care about the Empire playerbase, and that Empire players are not needed, so you shouldn't be affected at all whether they do or do not exist.
Quote: It may one day in the wrong hands even change the motivations of the company to be willing to compromise their initial ideals for the sake of profit.
And what does that have to do with Empire players? If the game ever does fall into the "wrong hands" (By this I assume you mean anyone who doesn't realise that your $15 a month makes you a board member), they're going to make changes to the game to maximise their profits regardless of the makeup of the current playerbase.
Quote:
There is a problem with every anti-player-run-universe token handed to the empire playerbase giving them more reason to stay in empire and even less reason to compete over 0.0 the idealistic goal of designing a game geared towards being a fully player run universe
Attempting to nerf Empire will do nothing to change that. People who all ready want to/are willing will go to low/nosec, and the rest will leave the game, accomplishing nothing but giving CCP less money to develop the game they want. You can't seem to make up your mind, you claim on the one hand that Empire players don't matter, and on the other that they are somehow ruining the game, without providing any evidence for either.
Quote: Your an idiot to expect a legitimate response from community managers, and expecting their response to act as a valid rebuttal to my claims.
LOL, so not only are you the final Arbiter on all issues regarding what CCP wants, but even if CCP were to publicly disagree with you they'd obviously just be lying? I think you need to find a hobby and step away from the computer for a while, and remember that 'Sarakiel' and his ships are just a collection of pixels on the screen, not your career.
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Sarakiel
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.03.30 20:29:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Sarakiel on 30/03/2008 20:30:40
Originally by: Hekilo Tetsatz
Originally by: Sarakiel
This reveals yet again another person who seems to be incapable of taking the initiative to understand the terms of the debate. The argument is based around the fact that the existence of the current state of the empire playerbase hinders the progression of the game's ideolistic goals.
How? You've all ready stated that CCP doesn't care about the Empire playerbase, and that Empire players are not needed, so you shouldn't be affected at all whether they do or do not exist.
Quote: It may one day in the wrong hands even change the motivations of the company to be willing to compromise their initial ideals for the sake of profit.
And what does that have to do with Empire players? If the game ever does fall into the "wrong hands" (By this I assume you mean anyone who doesn't realise that your $15 a month makes you a board member), they're going to make changes to the game to maximise their profits regardless of the makeup of the current playerbase.
Quote:
There is a problem with every anti-player-run-universe token handed to the empire playerbase giving them more reason to stay in empire and even less reason to compete over 0.0 the idealistic goal of designing a game geared towards being a fully player run universe
Attempting to nerf Empire will do nothing to change that. People who all ready want to/are willing will go to low/nosec, and the rest will leave the game, accomplishing nothing but giving CCP less money to develop the game they want. You can't seem to make up your mind, you claim on the one hand that Empire players don't matter, and on the other that they are somehow ruining the game, without providing any evidence for either.
Quote: Your an idiot to expect a legitimate response from community managers, and expecting their response to act as a valid rebuttal to my claims.
LOL, so not only are you the final Arbiter on all issues regarding what CCP wants, but even if CCP were to publicly disagree with you they'd obviously just be lying? I think you need to find a hobby and step away from the computer for a while, and remember that 'Sarakiel' and his ships are just a collection of pixels on the screen, not your career.
i've gotta say at this point im impressed, well played troll... well played. Its gotta be that or you truly are an absolute idiot capable of only miniscule levels of sarcasm and an inability to debate ideas effectively because you lack the ability to even comprehend the purpose of argument let alone use the mechanisms effectively. I hope its the former.
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Hekilo Tetsatz
Crimson Rebellion Cold Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.30 20:43:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Sarakiel
i've gotta say at this point im impressed, well played troll... well played. Its gotta be that or you truly are an absolute idiot capable of only miniscule levels of sarcasm and an inability to debate ideas effectively because you lack the ability to even comprehend the purpose of argument let alone use the mechanisms effectively. I hope its the former.
Concession accepted.
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jita pc232323
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Posted - 2008.03.30 21:45:00 -
[166]
Easy way to get people to 0.0 - more stations with agents in 0.0. Either put agents in outposts or populate 0.0 with more npc stations.
Do that and people will come. At the moment there's simply nothing there for people to go to. There's lots of empty systems with crappy ore and lots of outposts controlled by alliances that don't let casual people dock. |
RigelKentaurus
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Posted - 2008.03.30 21:47:00 -
[167]
Edited by: RigelKentaurus on 30/03/2008 21:48:20
Originally by: Sarakiel Lots of stuff about CCP prefering their "Idea" to dollars
Do you think the original CCP idea included alts, which are plaguing the economy, allow players to avoid consequences of their actions, made 0.0 a capital blob fest by allowing nearly everyone to fly a capital ships alone thanks to alt, and so on...?
If not, then why did "The Power of Two" happen? And not only once, but twice. Why the hell would CCP want to further break the game by helping players to have alts? The ansser is obvious: $$$ .
You wanted me to talk about facts, so here is a fact that proves CCP prefers dollars to their original idea, which didn't include the massive use of alts IMO. _________
Someday, EVE may look like this. |
Sarakiel
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Posted - 2008.03.30 21:56:00 -
[168]
Originally by: RigelKentaurus Edited by: RigelKentaurus on 30/03/2008 21:48:20
Originally by: Sarakiel Lots of stuff about CCP prefering their "Idea" to dollars
Do you think the original CCP idea included alts, which are plaguing the economy, allow players to avoid consequences of their actions, made 0.0 a capital blob fest by allowing nearly everyone to fly a capital ships alone thanks to alt, and so on...?
If not, then why did "The Power of Two" happen? And not only once, but twice. Why the hell would CCP want to further break the game by helping players to have alts? The ansser is obvious: $$$ .
You wanted me to talk about facts, so here is a fact that proves CCP prefers dollars to their original idea, which didn't include the massive use of alts IMO.
Alts were absolute a reality for this game. They knew this and they even included a drop down menu to choose different account usernames. As I said the one game design/technical issue holding this game back is hardware lag, not even bandwidth lag, just hardware. Everything else holding this game back is due to the playerbase.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.03.30 22:01:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 30/03/2008 22:01:29
Originally by: Sarakiel
The beauty of it is CCP's ideology holds that the decision is no longer their's to make. They've made the game the way they wanted it to be and now they want nearly all decisions in the hands of the players.
Careful about holding someone on a pedastal so high, especially when it is your interpretation of their ideals. As some point you are going to get hurt
But you are correct. CCP created the game the way THEY wanted, INCLUDING high sec and its advantages/disadvantages. They have made many minor alterations to keep that overall goal intact. Some how I don't think they are even considering forcing players out by seriously nerfing what they built. Perhaps it is you that mis-understands how CCP feels about their player base?
Quote:
The question is, will they compromise this ideology for the sake of profit when games like Jumpgate Evolution go live and start pulling all those players that really want WoW in Space and not EvE Online.
They will do what they feel is best for hte game. Somehow I doubt that is going to be altering the concept of a "PvP" world, since by their own words PvP means so many things (not just Pew Pew)
Quote:
Goonswarm may or not have initiated jihadswarm for the sake of the 'lulz' but either way in principle it is what makes EvE unique. Player initiatives change the game, rather than being bound by its structure they use its structure to create new levels of the game. Jihadswarm has had the short term effect of changing market prices, but it also has the potential to affect the game longterm by forcing empire players to re-evaluate the risk vs reward nature of 0.0.
Jihadswarm has made no difference to any Empire player's decisions about lowsec or 0.0 You simply do NOT understand how the empire player base thinks. The only decision they are making is whether to wait out CCP's decision on this, do other activities or leave the game.
Quote:
If empire players aren't going to take the initiative to realise the value of 0.0 play, then its up to 0.0 players that want the game to accelerate to a higher level of play to give empire players reason to come to 0.0. That can be through making the transition as easy/comfortable/attractive as possible (bait them with candy) or by making life miserable enough in empire that players will re-evaluate whether they should move to 0.0 or leave the game altogether.
Why? Just like IRL where I don't want to be a stock broker and am perfectly happy with my chosen career, why do empire players suddenly have to be forced to "realize" that 0.0 is better?
Face the facts; you don't even WANT us out there because we aren't going to play the way you think is appropriate anyways. We aren't going to blob up to save your POSs, we aren't going to roam searching for enemy gangs, we aren't going to gate camp. Hell we aren't even going to mine ore for your alliance to build their next Titan. WE DO NOT SHARE THE SAME GOALS. How hard is that to understand?
Quote:
I personally believe you get more with appealing to a person's desires rather than fears (whats that phrase, more with sugar than sour, something like that :P), but hey i'm happy to see that Goonswarms efforts have made a dent in at least motivating players that hinder the games progression to quit the game altogether.
Goons are going to force a change in Eve, simply because they are carrying things too far. Just like the Privateers and the dozens of others before them. Then people like you are going to whine and cry that CCP is caving to the carebears, while all the time you simply have no clue as to CCP's vision of the game.
Hint: Eve has 3 security levels. Empire is supposed to be safer for the less violent inhabitants. Hence CCP PURPOSELY placed areas in the game that made it harder to Pew Pew people. There are more hints, it isn't hard to find them.
Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.03.30 22:05:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Sarakiel
Alts were absolutely a reality for this game and have not detracted from the economy at all. Alts are not mandatory to make good money even in 0.0. They knew this and they even included a drop down menu to choose different account usernames. As I said the one game design/technical issue holding this game back is hardware lag, not even bandwidth lag, just hardware. Everything else holding this game back is due to the playerbase.
Alts are a scourge on this game because they allow PvPers to avoid the realities of security status and use alternate methods of making money and getting goods.
This is clearly broken. I recommend setting every player's security status to be equal to the lowest on all their accounts so they cannot exploit this flaw. This will force them to use contracts and work with industrial players to get what they need. I further recommend that Concord censure any player supplying criminals with materials, as to aid a criminal is to be one.
Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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RigelKentaurus
Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2008.03.30 22:06:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Sarakiel Alts were absolutely a reality for this game and have not detracted from the economy at all. Alts are not mandatory to make good money even in 0.0. They knew this and they even included a drop down menu to choose different account usernames.
So according to you, the fact than anyone can have an industrial alt, one or more mining alts, datacore farming alts, and etc isn't harmful to the economy at all?
And even if alts are not mandatory in 0.0, dare say they're not a factor of the increasing number of capital ships found there.
Anyway you seem to think CCP's Idea included alts, and if that's really the case, then it plainly sucks. _________
Someday, EVE may look like this. |
Volar Kang
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Posted - 2008.03.30 22:15:00 -
[172]
I love it when these guys say they want people to come to lowsec/0.0 because they want more pew pew. What they really mean is that they are so poor at PVP that they would rather shoot a miner/noob than go fight the PVPer's already in 0.0
If you want pew pew, look BOB up. They will be more than happy to give it to you. There are other good PVPer's out there, look them up. Stop calling for traders and miners to fight you. |
Hekilo Tetsatz
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Posted - 2008.03.30 22:30:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Anaalys FluuterbyAlts are a scourge on this game because they allow PvPers to avoid the realities of security status and use alternate methods of making money and getting goods. [/quote
Clearly CCP's vision for a player-run universe is a handful of players running the universe with multiple copies of themselves.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
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Posted - 2008.03.30 22:31:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Hekilo Tetsatz
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Alts are a scourge on this game because they allow PvPers to avoid the realities of security status and use alternate methods of making money and getting goods.
Clearly CCP's vision for a player-run universe is a handful of players running the universe with multiple copies of themselves.
You forgot to add "While trying to force everyone else to line up in front of their guns"
Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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iNFyza
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Posted - 2008.03.30 22:35:00 -
[175]
Originally by: RigelKentaurus No other real MMO offers SpaceShips. Think about it. Then think about it again, and again, and never forget it when you post something about how great EVE is. It's not even that great IMO, if it weren't for spaceships I wouldn't even be playing it.
Same reason I started playing eve. Its all about the space ships baby!
- Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
zoltar
Perdu Opus
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Posted - 2008.03.30 23:05:00 -
[176]
Can't we all just get along?
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2008.03.30 23:08:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Inconstant Moon
Originally by: Sarakiel You also fail to recognise that job value extends beyond profit especially considering the career-building value a CCP employee will have as an employee who helped set the model for every future player run universe.
"Excel Online in Space with Griefing" is going to be the model for all future internet spaceships? Dear jeebus just kill me now.
Sure. Just let me insure my ship.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
mishkof
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.30 23:45:00 -
[178]
Edited by: mishkof on 30/03/2008 23:56:18
Last Christmas eve I was at my parents house having a tastey meal, I got a call from my CEO and friend telling me RA was probably going to plan a christmas day offensive to catch us off guard...
Not everyone wants to deal with that all the time. The people that are talking about a completely player driven universe are freiking crazy if you ask me.
I dont think they really understand what that means. I dont think the fake-tough guys in this game that hang out in lo-sec stations dont have a single clue what they are asking for.
I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me |
Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.03.30 23:47:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ethen Bejorn We want to pew pew yourt face.
Nothing is stopping you - just come do it.
Says the player in the newb-corp.
Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Sarakiel
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.03.31 00:03:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Sarakiel on 31/03/2008 00:06:07
Originally by: RigelKentaurus
So according to you, the fact than anyone can have an industrial alt, one or more mining alts, datacore farming alts, and etc isn't harmful to the economy at all?
And even if alts are not mandatory in 0.0, dare say they're not a factor of the increasing number of capital ships found there.
Anyway you seem to think CCP's Idea included alts, and if that's really the case, then it plainly sucks.
Sec status is not a problem for anyone but low-sec pvp'ers, and frankly they make up a very small percentage of the playerbase, therefore while they do abuse this mechanic it hardly counts as an argument for detracting from overall gameplay.
I didn't say CCP encouraged alts but let me elaborate. They planned for alts. The fact is that while players do use alts (I run 3 accounts personally) the game mechanics are designed such that running only one account has not put the player at any meaningful disadvantage. The game is not broken because of alts and if you try to argue otherwise your expecting an impossibly perfect game.
CCP has designed a game which has tackled alot of issues found in other games in a more effective manner. For instance CCP recognised how irrational it was to forbid character selling in mmorpgs and designed a system that adequately tackled this issue. GTC selling though was obviously introduced to redirect profit back to themselves but it clearly hasnt impacted game mechanics in a negative fashion considering everything on the market is appropriately priced. If you think EvE goods are priced out of proportion you haven't played mmo's plagued by botting. CCP's mechanics have tackled issues passively while other mmo's have only handled these issues by policing their playerbase.
Quote: Face the facts; you don't even WANT us out there because we aren't going to play the way you think is appropriate anyways. We aren't going to blob up to save your POSs, we aren't going to roam searching for enemy gangs, we aren't going to gate camp. Hell we aren't even going to mine ore for your alliance to build their next Titan. WE DO NOT SHARE THE SAME GOALS. How hard is that to understand?
Anaalys I do understand your point and no im not trying to force them to play, however I will do my part in making the transition as easy as possible for those that 0.0 play would really suit them more but currently remain ignorant of how much more fun they would have. You may have the experience, and you may have analysed that empire play suits you, but I have read enough posts and unfortunately not all of them are trolls that reveal that there is a massive amount of the population that simply don't understand 0.0 play. They are misguided in a vacuum of ignorance.
From what I've analysed there is a large bulk of empire players that have delusions about one of three aspects about 0.0 play: 1) Security: They seem to think entering 0.0 = wtfpwned. The reality, join any half decent alliance, set yourself up and you can rat mine for hours on end bothered at most by having to warp to an ss/pos for 15 minutes once every 4-8 hours. You shouldn't even die money making in 0.0 unless you choose not to check local at least once every 30 seconds 2) Purpose: there are some players who seem to think 0.0 corps are run by power hungry greedy fascists who abuse their player's efforts and hoard the corp wallets for themselves and that they're all warmongerers leading pillagers seeking easy kills. Those who think this are completely ignorant. 3) Appreciation: there are many players who wish to help others but would like appreciation for their efforts. People find this in their initial empire experience and hold on to it. With work though you can find well built 0.0 corporations that value each other.
To convince these players to come out you can either enlighten them on how wrong they are, or simply set up the infrastructure to make 0.0 life as attractive as possible.
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