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Bimjo
SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2008.03.28 20:25:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Bimjo on 28/03/2008 20:25:28 play your own game and let us play ours. I've been there , done that, got T-shirt(low sec/0.0/the big war etc)
I am now happy spending time in Empire. Stop harping on about how you have come up with a brilliant idea to force us to leave Empire.
If you are not happy with us hogging Empire then change your own game, don't try to change ours.
If this thread has upset you, give me your stuff before you leave
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.28 20:29:00 -
[2]
Empire is awesome.
I can actually buy and sell items.
I can fly around without having to take extreme measures to guard against gatecamps.
Lowsec and 0.0 are horribly inconvenient. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.03.28 20:32:00 -
[3]
Because Eve is touted as a PVP game, but from a cost-effective standpoint it's better to not PVP at all.
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Ethen Bejorn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.03.28 20:35:00 -
[4]
We want to pew pew yourt face.
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Bimjo
SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2008.03.28 20:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ethen Bejorn We want to pew pew yourt face.
well you cant and the reason you have few targets is because you pirates are so in love with each other that you never go after one another stop loving other pirates, hate them and fight someone who is fitted to give you a decent bout
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.03.28 20:38:00 -
[6]
People only moan because this game is tilted far too much towards people who play with no risk. No one at all would complain if hi sec level 4 missions didn't give more reward than anything you can do in 0.0 (well other than 0.0 level 4 missions which are available in only a handful of systems and are beyond most people thanks to standings) while there is far more risk involved in 0.0 (even more risk and less reward in low-sec).
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Miki Fin
Independant Union of Rangers
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Posted - 2008.03.28 20:50:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Doddy People only moan because this game is tilted far too much towards people who play with no risk. No one at all would complain if hi sec level 4 missions didn't give more reward than anything you can do in 0.0 (well other than 0.0 level 4 missions which are available in only a handful of systems and are beyond most people thanks to standings) while there is far more risk involved in 0.0 (even more risk and less reward in low-sec).
You really should take some better 0.0 regions.
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Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.03.28 21:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Doddy People only moan because this game is tilted far too much towards people who play with no risk. No one at all would complain if hi sec level 4 missions didn't give more reward than anything you can do in 0.0 (well other than 0.0 level 4 missions which are available in only a handful of systems and are beyond most people thanks to standings) while there is far more risk involved in 0.0 (even more risk and less reward in low-sec).
I can understand what you are trying to say, but in the end high-sec will always be technically much more profitable than low-sec/0.0. It doesn't really matter how much missions/mining/ratting gets tweaked, because those careers aren't profitable at all when compared to others. Take trading for example, it literally makes billions easily if you know what you're doing. You can trade anywhere, but where it really shines is in high-sec. Why? Because most people are there, and trading needs people, lots of them, to work.
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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Marcus TheMartin
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2008.03.28 21:04:00 -
[9]
because you are hording nice things and drop corp when we wardec you
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Gamesguy
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.28 21:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Bimjo
Originally by: Ethen Bejorn We want to pew pew yourt face.
well you cant and the reason you have few targets is because you pirates are so in love with each other that you never go after one another stop loving other pirates, hate them and fight someone who is fitted to give you a decent bout
What are you smoking? Pirates routinely kill each other.
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Andreask14
Raptus Regaliter Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.28 21:46:00 -
[11]
The real tragedy is that an empire bear does make no more than 20 mil on hour and 80% of eve-players are empire bears (see dev blog on this). Furthermore, these players spend all their hard earned money on faction items and ships and not on tech 2 or any other player-produced item.
These facts lead to the conclusion that i wont be able to sell the minerals, i mined by the sweat of my brow, for more than 20 mils per hour mined, scince there isnt anybody around that earns more than this. Except the ratters, who fly god damn t1 battleships. At least they fit t2 items.
Moral: pvp more, buy more t2 ships and items to pvp, rat more and pay the miners better prices.
Sig offline |
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.28 21:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ethen Bejorn We want to pew pew yourt face.
Nothing is stopping you - just come do it.
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MR DEMOS
Whiskey Creek Mining Giant Space Amoeba
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Posted - 2008.03.28 21:49:00 -
[13]
I agree with Bimjo...Been there done that Got the t-shirt....Fought in the Northern War's..I like being in Empire. I pay for my game you don't..I'll play the way i want to. If i choose togo back out to 0.0 ehhh who know's Or find a New allaince that work's for me
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Corstaad
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.28 22:03:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Corstaad on 28/03/2008 22:03:31 I'd say because we all have alts in high sec and realize why its broken. That and since its a online game I'd like to see more people where we pew pew. Also we might have a better player driven economy not a Raven driven economy.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific Interstellar Corporate Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.29 00:04:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 29/03/2008 00:04:58
Originally by: Doddy People only moan because this game is tilted far too much towards people who play with no risk. No one at all would complain if hi sec level 4 missions didn't give more reward than anything you can do in 0.0 (well other than 0.0 level 4 missions which are available in only a handful of systems and are beyond most people thanks to standings) while there is far more risk involved in 0.0 (even more risk and less reward in low-sec).
Oh come the hell on... I want to repeat, again what everyone else who is aware of ... basic mechanics of 0.0....
0.0 Space in almost EVERY respect is safer than .4-.1
- OK. I am glad I got this off my chest, continue spreading evil myths about 0.0 being "unsafe" and all.
It is Low Sec that needs to be addressed, and improved. My guess is, provide a small CONCORD protection, but only after a minute.... maybe, I don't know, I just pulled this CONCORD thing out of my arse.
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Pooka
United Space Aillance USA
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Posted - 2008.03.29 00:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Doddy People only moan because this game is tilted far too much towards people who play with no risk. No one at all would complain if hi sec level 4 missions didn't give more reward than anything you can do in 0.0 (well other than 0.0 level 4 missions which are available in only a handful of systems and are beyond most people thanks to standings) while there is far more risk involved in 0.0 (even more risk and less reward in low-sec).
And who's fault is it you have bad standings?? Not mine!
You made that choice to live that way, so you must live with it. It is part of your RISK vs REWARD.
PROMISES MADE PROMISES KEPT BRING THE BRIGHT STAR BACK!!!
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Lord Rue
GenX Societies Inc. Rejuvenate
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Posted - 2008.03.29 00:15:00 -
[17]
It's getting -INTO- 0.0 without being podded as a probable spy/cyno mule that is is the problem. :p
Devil bunnies! I snort the nose! Lucifer! Banana! |
Reem Fairchild
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.29 00:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jinx Barker Edited by: Jinx Barker on 29/03/2008 00:04:58
Originally by: Doddy People only moan because this game is tilted far too much towards people who play with no risk. No one at all would complain if hi sec level 4 missions didn't give more reward than anything you can do in 0.0 (well other than 0.0 level 4 missions which are available in only a handful of systems and are beyond most people thanks to standings) while there is far more risk involved in 0.0 (even more risk and less reward in low-sec).
Oh come the hell on... I want to repeat, again what everyone else who is aware of ... basic mechanics of 0.0....
0.0 Space in almost EVERY respect is safer than .4-.1
- OK. I am glad I got this off my chest, continue spreading evil myths about 0.0 being "unsafe" and all.
It is Low Sec that needs to be addressed, and improved. My guess is, provide a small CONCORD protection, but only after a minute.... maybe, I don't know, I just pulled this CONCORD thing out of my arse.
What is dangerous about low-sec? I could run around in low-sec doing pretty much whatever I want without ever losing a ship unless I myself choose to engage in a fight.
Can't say the same for 0.0, by any stretch of the imagination.
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Mavrickk
Zeus Even Runs Off
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Posted - 2008.03.29 01:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kruel Because Eve is touted as a PVP game, but from a cost-effective standpoint it's better to not PVP at all.
If all you want is a PvP game go play halo or something, EVE is a complete virtual world, and that is in part because of hi-sec allowing a player to have a advance without having to be in constant combat. If EVE was only a PvP game there would be no mining, trade science, manufacturing skills. There would be no purpose to researce, invention, manufacturing, or the market. Those are some of the things that make EVE unique, and you don't need massive skills to make money\have fun. I spend time in low-sec but I make my isk in hi-sec and I like to relax there where I'm safe. It's also much better when I have my kids distracting, ever try to PvP with a 2, 6, and 8 yr. old running around you.
Let me and everyone else enjoy the game the way we want. That is why CCP made EVE the way they did, to give us options.
But in all fairness I do agree that jumping corps. to avoid wardecs needs addressed. You should not be able to avoid the war dec that way.
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Jesum
Warmongers
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Posted - 2008.03.29 02:18:00 -
[20]
Only way to get more people into 0.0 is to nerf blobs.
___________ Jesum, CEO of Warmongers: Guns for hire.
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SoftRevolution
Complicity.
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Posted - 2008.03.29 02:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kruel Because Eve is touted as a PVP game, but from a cost-effective standpoint it's better to not PVP at all.
What has that got to do with it?
Seriously?
I don't understand why that would be relevent.
Do people sit down with a spreadsheet and decide to PVP that way? I'd assume it'd be more along the lines of "I want to shoot at stuff. How do I make that happen?" and ISK would function as a measure of (in-)efficiency if it figured at all. Maybe I'm weird in that respect.
I also don't understand why it would function any other way. Shooting at stuff tends to make it explode. Wars are frequently pretty horrible financially. If you're British ask your elderly relatives when they first saw a banana.
Doing boring stuff so you can do fun stuff is a pretty fair working definition of "MMORPG" too. EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.29 02:38:00 -
[22]
I dont understand how people can play online games and not want to shoot someone else in the face for the heck of it. Its a game. Kill some peeps. Geesh. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific Interstellar Corporate Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.29 02:43:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
What is dangerous about low-sec? I could run around in low-sec doing pretty much whatever I want without ever losing a ship unless I myself choose to engage in a fight.
Can't say the same for 0.0, by any stretch of the imagination.
Then you were in the "wrong" part of 0.0
A properly Alliance controlled territory is 10 to 1 safer than .4 or bellow, for the simple fact that unless one has an organized assault force, all one gets is just a bunch of random intruders who are quickly dispatched by the "home team."
For just a regular "carebear" who mines and builds stuff for his Alliance, and I know a few in 0.0, it is virtually impossible to die to a random enemy. All they do is rat and mine and build, and supply the "war effort."
The issue at hand are the highly individualistic pilots who choose to play EVE little differently, and as such are much more susceptible to the dangers of random ganks in .4 or bellow.
They would not make it too deep into Alliance controlled space, and what they have left is the so called "low sec" areas, which are overpopulated, mind you, by everyone who is looking to PVP, because it is easier to find in Low Sec, vs. 0.0. In 0.0, if you are NBSI, you will have a good bunch of people on your behind actively hunting and outnumbering you 10 to 1, where in Low Sec is it sometimes possible to find "easy kills."
Don't get me wrong, there are exception to any rule, but, that is all they are - exceptions. Alliance controlled territory is always safer for those who control it, vs. those who do not. Low Sec is just a no man's land, where you do not get good rats, do not get good ores, do not get rally good plexes.
All Low Sec at this time is a "bad part of town" - no one wants to go there, but has to pass through to get to the nearest friendly Jump Bridge, and then you just on the easy street. It has no benefits whatsoever, in my opinion, not for the PVPers and not for the Carebears. I would just convert it all into .5 and find some other way to encourage ship loss.....
Perhaps separate Empires with .4-.1 systems, so if you wan to travel to Amarr from Gallente, you better come up with a safe way, make enough entry points that they can not be camped at all times, and introduce some carrots to make people go there...
Difficult subject to be honest, but eventually CCP will have to address the issues of Low Sec viability as par of the game in general, I do not claim to have the answers... just some thoughts.
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Sarakiel
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.03.29 02:47:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Sarakiel on 29/03/2008 02:49:34 0.0 players want empire players in 0.0 because just as the empire environment has increased in complexity due to having more players, 0.0 players want the same. The difference is in empire that complexity is limited and artificial. The complexity of 0.0 only develops as players form the initiatives to change the dynamics of the game. Whether they articulate the point the way I have, or they just say 'we want more players in 0.0 because we want to be able to do more stuff' its at heart the same point.
Based on my observations the bulk of the empire playerbase has issues with three aspects of 0.0 its, 1) Security 2) Purpose 3) Player Appreciation
The problem is these same players havent taken the initiative to actually analyse the reality of 0.0 and these issues: 1) Security: the reality is outside of war in most alliance territories you can rat/mine for hours on end without being disturbed for longer than 10-15 minutes if that per a grinding session by a passing hostile forcing you to warp to a pos for safety. Losing your ship while money making is practically an impossibility, but being delayed for a very short period of time losing ultimately no profit compared to empire money making is. 2) Purpose: 0.0 alliances arent run by power-hungry selfish players sucking you dry of all your income. I've seen people suggest this in so many words and its just laughable. Even people with legitimate experience of this shouldnt let themselves be jaded so easily. 3) Appreciation: this takes work, finding the right corp that'll appreciate your efforts without bittching you out for some kind of 'lack of commitment' takes effort and time.
You do have to accept being a team player on some level in a 0.0 corp, but one can easily find corps that'll fit any players timescale.
The only argument I see against 0.0 is the extremely casual solo player. I can't in any way see a player who plays half an hour to an hour per a playing session justifying joining a 0.0 alliance. I definately can see this point of view. Beyond that, I just shrug and remember that all humans accept various levels of ignorance, everyone differs only in degree.
For what its worth, my biggest suggestion to all carebears that want to take the initiative to get a real feel for 0.0 in a very very casual manner is join a renter corp of a major 0.0 alliance. It'll pay for itself remarkably quickly, and you may find you'll like 0.0 life.
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Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.29 03:26:00 -
[25]
Just people who don't understand that EVE is a sandbox.
They want to force other people to adopt *their* playstyle, the myriad other forms of playstyle be damned!
Typically these people are ****ty 'pirates' who can't handle real fights and want afk haulers to blow up with their low sec gate camp.
They are best ignored and/or ridiculed.
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Jack Jombardo
The Last Samurais
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Posted - 2008.03.29 03:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kruel Because Eve is touted as a PVP game, but from a cost-effective standpoint it's better to not PVP at all.
Wrong, PvP is one tiny part of EvE. Not more, not less.
From our point of view it's a Space-Trading-Simulation.
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Sarakiel
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.03.29 04:10:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Sarakiel on 29/03/2008 04:11:38
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Originally by: Kruel Because Eve is touted as a PVP game, but from a cost-effective standpoint it's better to not PVP at all.
Wrong, PvP is one tiny part of EvE. Not more, not less.
From our point of view it's a Space-Trading-Simulation.
Yet those who value EvE for this quality choose an inferior game by remaining ignorant of the benefits to be had by taking a role in 0.0 economies. Unless your a decabillionaire controlling and playing the EvE market and not some miniscule mule making what you can churning out/hauling a meagre amount of products for comparably small isk gains your a player denying yourself the value of the experience to be had by being an industrialist interacting between empire and 0.0
The reality is most are mission'ers who prefer the controlled, parented environment of EvE pvp based entirely around war-dec's without actually having taken the initiative to experience 0.0 and get a real feel for it.
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Marcus TheMartin
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2008.03.29 04:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Originally by: Kruel Because Eve is touted as a PVP game, but from a cost-effective standpoint it's better to not PVP at all.
Wrong, PvP is one tiny part of EvE. Not more, not less.
From our point of view it's a Space-Trading-Simulation.
look at how stupid you are.
Everything bought sold and mined is a product of pvp
Competing for the sale Competing for the resources competing for that bargain
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DigitalCommunist
Obsidian Core
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Posted - 2008.03.29 04:33:00 -
[29]
Why do you need to leave high sec? Tell me, why do you need to stay in high sec?
EVE has a single universe, and its the major selling point of the game. To allow people to play by themselves, in their own private sandbox, filled to the brim with content and toys.. is undermining one of the best features of EVE. It makes a mockery of all the work and technical brilliance that went into creating a single universe game if we end up living in a two class society.
EVE Empire and EVE 0.0 is, in truth, two games divided by opposing mechanics but branded and marketed as one. This divide tears at the community and the quality of EVE itself, because we lobby for changes that go against one another. This is evidenced by the statement..
Originally by: Bimjo If you are not happy with us hogging Empire then change your own game, don't try to change ours.
No Bimjo; if you're not happy with EVE being a highly ruthless, competitive, dangerous and hyper-capitalistic MMO - then either learn to adapt or find something more suited to your tastes. Don't try to change our game with more illogical carebear input on game design.
And you know what?
EVE becomes stagnant if all subscribers are allowed to live in the safety created for newbies, while flossing about in pimp rides, spending pimp ISK. There should be consequences to picking the relative and effortless safety which was simply never intended to be the baseline of EVE. Consequences that should normally manifest themselves a few months into the game, when you start looking to buy bigger ships and better skills.
That consequence has always been about economics. Presently, even if you make ISK at a slower pace in empire, you make a lot of it. Enough to take care of all you needs, wants and desires.
This is why the majority play in Empire. Anyone who tries to make the argument that more people simply prefer complete and mind-numbing safety where nothing relevant ever happens, is just being a flagrant idiot. This has always been about economics, and always will be. And rational people, as they say, think at the margin.
For a minor drop in revenue, you get a massive increase in safety.
The time you save from having easy logistics, and zero obstacles almost manages to negate the loss of revenues. Empire people can if they choose, spend all their time grinding ISK until their goals are obtained. You could try the same in 0.0 but other players might object, interfere and generally prevent you from accomplishing these goals.
Boost 0.0? Boost low-sec? BS.
Nerf high sec by moving all agents above medium quality lvl 2's. There's your 'fix' for low-sec.
It detracts not only from my fun, but the core gameplay of EVE to know that I am putting in meaningless effort, taking meaningless risks, and fighting meaningless wars. Fighting for my slice of the pie and for my survival is - and has been for a very long time - COMPLETELY OPTIONAL.
I don't mind if you're in Empire. I don't. What you do there, and with your game time is irrelevant to me and about 250,000 other subscribers.
I do mind if you're never enticed to participate and interact with anyone, you know, beyond chatting in a text channel. This is a MMORPG, and if the base standard is single-player gameplay, then having corporations, alliances and by proxy - teamwork itself - is completely optional as well.
Oh yes, we form them to pursue ideologies, boost egos, gain attention, have some cheap laughs, make neat logos, and for the sake of it... nothing in there about corporations and alliances existing to fulfill their primary function:
A way for players to advance using teamwork.
Your short and thoughtless words don't upset me, even if you intended it. I know that if change comes, it will be for you. I've been handling the greatest challenges this game has to offer as long as it has offered them. I will continue handling new ones with delight.
You on the other hand, are the one who may become upset. _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/ |
AKULA UrQuan
STK Scientific Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.29 04:36:00 -
[30]
I think the answer to the question in the topic would be "Fresh Meat". Some people returning to empire after a long stint in o.O have that.....Twitch.
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