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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.13 03:22:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 13/04/2008 03:26:43
US Congress seeks to pass a new bill that will allow the possibilty though loopholes that every single art work you have ever created to be stolen and no possible real protection over it.
The following links can explain it better:
V For Vengance's Devaint Art Journal
Animation World Magazine Editorial Blog
Sell your TV concept's Orphaned Works Legislation Information
Illustrators Partnership Editorial Blog
How does this effect you or eve?
Imagine a person taking all the concept artwork of eve's ships and registering it as his own then turning around and suing ccp for every ship you guys ever flown?
This isnt just eve but millions of artist around the world with portfolios and thier jobs on the line, and billions of thier artworks!
The problem is not everyone knows about this law! Spread the word, US citizens fax (far more effective if you flood thier entire office with paper) or email your law makers, congressmen or senators, US and Non US citizens you can sign this petition here
Deviants against the "Orpaned Works" Bill
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Blood Daemon
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.13 03:31:00 -
[2]
oh noes >.<... 
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.13 03:43:00 -
[3]
Ouch... didn't know about that. Haven't been on deviantart for ages... 
------------
 Originally by: CCP Mitnal
It's great being a puppetmaster 
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.13 03:50:00 -
[4]
I would assume ccp is covered under Icelandic copyright law and/or EU copyright law
but that is really not cool 
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2008.04.13 03:59:00 -
[5]
Huh.
So your intellectual property only matters if you have money basically. Big movie studios = Important. Everyone else = No.
Fascinating.
btw you typo'd Quote:
Deviants against the "Orphaned Works" Bill
EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.13 04:01:00 -
[6]
Fixed the typo and from what i understand the artist who even register for the protection still wont be protected.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Shaun Klaroh
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Posted - 2008.04.13 04:15:00 -
[7]
So pretty much companies like Fox News and the NFL would get away with utilizing copyrighted images and works of art for free with all these opportunities, while the same groups are able to spend ridiculous amounts of cash to keep on top of everything?
I didn't delve into it too much, mainly because I can only stand so much legal text in a day, but the major questions I have are:
1) How much does it actually cost to register a work of art.
2) Does each work of art have to be submitted independently.
3) Does this include audio/video/interactive material?
4) How long would it take to actually register a copyrighted work?
5) What happens when two people submit identical pieces of work?
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Copyright in itself is okay~~... The main failure is purely duration with companies demanding 70 years past the creator's death.
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Sothis Antares
PBA Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.13 04:19:00 -
[8]
imagine, there are people who are not affected by US law
_________________________________________________
devblogs are boring. so is mine :P
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Havok Dryke
Golden Gavel Enterprises
The Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.04.13 04:20:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Havok Dryke on 13/04/2008 04:20:51
This new law has officially made me sad in the pants.
Lucky for me I'm not a US citizen, eh....
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EVE is a cold, harsh world, filled with people that would kill you without a second thought. The forums are even worse. |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.13 04:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shaun Klaroh
So pretty much companies like Fox News and the NFL would get away with utilizing copyrighted images and works of art for free with all these opportunities, while the same groups are able to spend ridiculous amounts of cash to keep on top of everything?
I didn't delve into it too much, mainly because I can only stand so much legal text in a day, but the major questions I have are:
1) How much does it actually cost to register a work of art.
2) Does each work of art have to be submitted independently.
3) Does this include audio/video/interactive material?
4) How long would it take to actually register a copyrighted work?
5) What happens when two people submit identical pieces of work?
--------
Copyright in itself is okay~~... The main failure is purely duration with companies demanding 70 years past the creator's death.
1)5$ a peice, for me it would cost me 800$ to register my entire portfolio and god knows how much more to register my entire collection of ideas.
2)yes
3)depends on the documents definition of art, but art can range from food recipies/preperation to car concepts to the design of your own tv and couch and computer even the art on the casing of your video card (should it be that fancy) could be subject.
4)I dont know.
5)basically it depends who has more money, but the registery isnt garantee protection anymore where current system would offer almost equal protection this just causes more money to be tossed into the legal system.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.13 04:26:00 -
[11]
Oh for those of you not understanding this effects everything on the internet. US Citzen OR NOT
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Sothis Antares
PBA Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.13 04:28:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Sothis Antares on 13/04/2008 04:32:09
Originally by: Nova Fox
Oh for those of you not understanding this effects everything on the internet. US Citzen OR NOT
hohoho, since when does the usa have rights to make laws applicable to the whole internet?
edit: this is pretty much the same with software patents. luckily i am a eu citizen and can say that i don't give a damn about them when writing own software.
_________________________________________________
devblogs are boring. so is mine :P
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.13 04:33:00 -
[13]
Thats the point it never did and I would liek to have this law shut down because it screws over everyone on the internet.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.04.13 04:41:00 -
[14]
I havent read all the articles, but wouldnt the person or individual first need the orginal images? I mean if someone did do this this would need to show proof of ownership in court. A downloaded, low res image of a concept artwork is not going to stand up against the genuine hand drawn piece.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.13 04:47:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 13/04/2008 04:48:15
according to the new law should it pass it wouldnt matter anymore its all in the registrering the artwork.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.04.13 05:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nova Fox
Edited by: Nova Fox on 13/04/2008 04:48:15
according to the new law should it pass it wouldnt matter anymore its all in the registrering the artwork.
Meh, guess I should yank all my orginal artwork off of photobucket then. Hope this isnt passed.
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Khanid Kutie
I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.13 05:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nova Fox
Edited by: Nova Fox on 13/04/2008 04:00:30
Edited by: Nova Fox on 13/04/2008 03:26:43
US Congress....
and this affects everyone outside the US, including CCP--which is based in UMMMMM ICELAND--how?
____________________________________________
Originally by: Thargat
They should change the name of CAOD to EvE Zoo. Please to not feed the animals.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.13 05:12:00 -
[18]
Joe Smoe in the US looking to make a quick buck decided to register the concept art for the rohk for example. Then sues ccp in atlanta for stealing his artwork.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.04.13 05:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Khanid Kutie
Originally by: Nova Fox
Edited by: Nova Fox on 13/04/2008 04:00:30
Edited by: Nova Fox on 13/04/2008 03:26:43
US Congress....
and this affects everyone outside the US, including CCP--which is based in UMMMMM ICELAND--how?
Im not in law but I would imagine it would atleast be an issue if the theif was in the united states. If the person is in the united states when he filed the registration for the piece I would imagine it would have to be taken up in a US court or atleast would be pushed for.
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Moo Unit
Irrational Exuberance
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Posted - 2008.04.13 05:15:00 -
[20]
Awesome, the frowny face copyright will be all mine!
:(¬
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Shaun Klaroh
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Posted - 2008.04.13 05:21:00 -
[21]
Someone already has the trademark.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.13 05:25:00 -
[22]
Better yet joe smoe in the states steals all fo ccps art work and starts selling it as his own. ccp couldnt collect royalty from his profits even though it belonged to ccp.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.04.13 05:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shaun Klaroh
Someone already has the trademark.
:-(
...
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Trolsk
Red.
Red Republic
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Posted - 2008.04.13 06:00:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shaun Klaroh
Someone already has the trademark.
Heh, a few funnies there
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jongalt
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Posted - 2008.04.13 06:02:00 -
[25]
Edited by: jongalt on 13/04/2008 06:04:59
Edited by: jongalt on 13/04/2008 06:03:19
Edited by: jongalt on 13/04/2008 06:02:56
Originally by: Shaun Klaroh
I didn't delve into it too much, mainly because I can only stand so much legal text in a day, but the major questions I have are:
1) How much does it actually cost to register a work of art.
2) Does each work of art have to be submitted independently.
3) Does this include audio/video/interactive material?
4) How long would it take to actually register a copyrighted work?
5) What happens when two people submit identical pieces of work?
1. if you register your "portfolio" as a "collection" with the US copyright office, its $30 USD for virtually unlimited items at the time of registration. ive registered hundreds of photographs every year for years, and its always been $30. im not sure where the other guy is getting this $5 per item fee from.
2. no. when you d/l the pdf, fill out the form for as many items that you want to copyright for that particular submission. ive submitted hundreds of photographs under one registration.
3. yes.
4. it is effectively registered with the USGov the moment they receive the fedex package. however, the paperwork takes about 30 - 60 days. if you have commerical work, it is your responsibility to register for copyright within 90 days of publication.
5. there are certain guidelines that are applied to cases where images are appropriated, or "copied from a comp of a specific image". remember, agencies dont have to steal your particular image, they can pay somebody else to make an image very very similiar to yours. this is the grey zone that most litigation falls into.
since i cba to do the href shuffle, here is the link to the US gov copyright website:http://www.copyright.gov/
and just to stir things up a bit: theres a difference between "appropriation" and outright stealing. ill leave it to y'all to discuss the difference. lol. if you feel like it. and have the time.
richard prince might be a good topic. is he a thief, or is he an artist?
sherry levine?
louise lawler?
lol.
-jg.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.04.13 15:37:00 -
[26]
I was talking about this over breakfast with my folks today and my mother brought up a good point about this, what is going to happen to all the artwork featured in Muesums (sp), or the work of the great artists. Are they going to have to chizzle some sort of copyright notice into David's right butt cheek otherwise Joe Blow can legally wheele out the statue and plop it in his back yard?
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.13 15:52:00 -
[27]
Is there a link to the original bill text anywhere?
Not that I really give a frack about US law, but I'm just curious.
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Luh Windan
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.04.13 15:54:00 -
[28]
Its in the internet so it must be true....
or not
Please use your brains
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Luh Windan
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.04.13 15:55:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Luh Windan on 13/04/2008 15:56:07
Originally by: Winterblink
Is there a link to the original bill text anywhere?
Not that I really give a frack about US law, but I'm just curious.
no - because this is just FUD being spread by someone with little or no understanding of the issues and there is no bill at present. There is a proposed bill to deal with orphan works but it bears no relation to the rubbish being spread about
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Siege
Minmatar
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2008.04.13 15:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Winterblink
Is there a link to the original bill text anywhere?
Not that I really give a frack about US law, but I'm just curious.
I'm wondering the same. I haven't found a single reference that points to a bill number or any solid details about the wording of this.
------ begin signature -----
Little known Eve fact, The original race names were:
Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation. |
William Darkk
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.04.13 16:02:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Luh Windan
Its in the internet so it must be true....
or not
Please use your brains
Surprise! People on the internet worked up over nothing!
This thread is now about Disney.
-------------------------------------------------
Mac Graphics Performance Guide
<3 my Drones |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.04.13 16:02:00 -
[32]
Orphan Works Act of 2006
I believe this is what the articles are sighting.
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Bob Pipe
Minmatar
Lyrix Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.13 16:15:00 -
[33]
Originally by: William Darkk
This thread is now about Disney.
I like aladdin and the lion king.
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Deaell Portt
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.04.13 16:27:00 -
[34]
Well, EU always show finger, so Eu citizens have no worries. Look at microsoft case in EU court , pgp algorithm , true crypt case,RIAA, Swedish law (piratebay site), software patents etc. etc. etc. Europe and others countries are not another USA state.
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr
The Littlest Hobos
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.13 16:33:00 -
[35]
its called prio art and tell them to **** off
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
Vlomini Drayk
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.13 16:40:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Vlomini Drayk on 13/04/2008 16:40:52
Thanks for listing the link to the bill. And the text of the Bill that pertains to it.
OH WAIT YOU DIDN'T. Why hallo thar chicken little.
Edit; Also has jack all to do with EVE
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.13 16:44:00 -
[37]
So this thread is about a not-even-a-bill-yet piece of proposed legislation in the US, an how it affects a company based in Iceland?
Really?
------
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways. |
Vincent S
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:05:00 -
[38]
Dear "Nova Fox",
I truly wish you would stop posting. Isn't there a furry convention you could to and yiff some other fursuiters or something?
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:06:00 -
[39]
Originally by: William Darkk
Surprise! People on the internet worked up over nothing!
Unpossible!
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Zartach Tzarszh
Minmatar
The Royal Engineers
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:42:00 -
[40]
Only in the Good ol' US of A :(
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jongalt
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:42:00 -
[41]
on march 13, 2008, the Judiciary Committee had a hearing about Orphan Works, which you can read here:http://judiciary.house.gov/oversight.aspx?ID=427
six people presented testimony.
a decision was deferred for another time.
its important because its about having the efficacy to sue for infringement in order to receive just compensation. the bill allows commercial interests to "use" intellectual property for commercial work without paying you for compensation because "they couldnt find a way to contact you".
its only really important if your "artwork" is of high enough quality that a commercial interest would want to use it in the first place.
as with everything, 99% of the art being produced today is crap anyway. and yah, that includes deviant art stuff...
-jg.
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Slez
Caldari
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2008.04.13 19:20:00 -
[42]
THE WORLD IZ ENDING |
Cissnei
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Posted - 2008.04.13 19:32:00 -
[43]
this bill came about more due to the proliferation of digital photography. many companies wantn to use all the images floating around the web for their own commercial ends, and for some reason feel taht they shoudnt have to pay or deal with copyrights - even though most digital photographers are completely clueless as to the law in this respect
gottalove being a US citizen. they are even trying to tax our internet now. did you know that? the telecomm companies have a bill in congress that would allow them to charge a premium to isp's for access to specific parts of the internet, and if they dont pay you either have no access or it's butt-slow. for example: at&t, the largest owner of telecomm lines in the US, wants google to pay a stipend every month. google flips the virtual finger. at&t limits everyone's access to google.
second example: your isp is a tiny one and cant afford all of at&t's fees. voila - a good portion of your web surfing options have just been completely eliminated
bills like this need to go on the ballot
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.14 07:36:00 -
[44]
give me a moment posting the 2006 bill up the 2008 bill isnt drafted yet but on march 13 2008 the subject was brought back to the spotlight.
Ill also give an example how its possible to steal someones artwork under this system soon as I find the picture in eve files.
and no i havent fully researched the subject I dont got 300 pages worth of ink to print out and go over with it with my military provided and free lawyer to help me understand the more nitty gritty limbo.
(final note public wifi sucks for research)
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.14 08:10:00 -
[45]
okay updated the OP on how the 2008 system is broken.
the 2008 edition isnt drafted yet but its being written and should be ready for reading this summer worst part is the chairman of the US copyright legislatino is to step down soon the same guy that shot down the 2006 and is an avid opponent of this bill.
The guy to replace him isnt very friendly on individual rights and has been proven to be highly convinced with some lobbying.
The lobbyist that want this law passed are folks who want to use artwork without paying the artist a certain sum for using thier work but instead circumvent that process.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Alyth
Gallente
Corp 1 Allstars
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.14 09:00:00 -
[46]
Oh well. Even if the thief is in the states, he can't claim innocence on account of the big 'anything to do with EVE, CCP or anything else we can think of will be handled by the Reykjavic District Court' meaning Icelandic law will be applicable and sod the new bill 
I love Violet! It is the prettiest color in the whole wide world!!!
I like toast. Naviagtor
Gah! Curse you all! |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.14 09:07:00 -
[47]
Im quite sure not every artist in the world could afford sue someone out of the states either.
The point is what if the examle work I used for an example was just a joe smoe like myself just having fun with fan art, then some game company decides to liberate my artwork for the imaginary orphanage and they dont nessicarly have to sue ccp or anyone once they obtain the artwork, all they can do once they do obtain it is make $$$ off of it without paying the original artist.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar
Crystal Ship
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Posted - 2008.04.14 09:19:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre on 14/04/2008 09:19:46
Now, my Legalese isn't the best, I admit, but wouldn't this scenario go something like this?
1. Random Bloke registers CCP artwork as being his own, tries to sue CCP for Infringement of Copyright and for Royalties.
2. CCP point out that they've been using the image in the Public Domain as part of their Intellectual Property (EVE-Online) for the last 5 Years.
3. Judge notes that Random Bloke only registered the Artwork within the last month, throws out the case.
4. CCP countersues, Random Bloke is now also facing Criminal Charges for Attempted Fraud.
Overall, not a smart Idea to try to pull this one off.
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Delichon
The First Foundation
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2008.04.14 09:49:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre
4. CCP countersues, Random Bloke is now also facing Criminal Charges for Attempted Fraud.
Search agents are already looking for Random Bloke.
He's gone get so-o-o-o-o podded soon!
Trying to steal CCP's artwork, was he!
------------------------------------------
All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. Next time they are going to nerf you directly.
Eve Forums. |
Dorisane
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Posted - 2008.04.14 10:22:00 -
[50]
world != usa.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.14 11:13:00 -
[51]
US lawmakers and lobbist dont care for the world or the cries from the international copyright office that this is wrong.
Hopefully flooding senators office full of faxes protesting this is one of the few things US citizens can do.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Reacz
Caldari
Empirius Enigmus Navy
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.14 11:29:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Reacz on 14/04/2008 11:33:10
Interesting and indeed disturbing but that Chinese guy - V for Vengance made me laugh.
'Burdens of the white man' indeed.
But yeah, bad news for the artists amoungst us.
It would be sad to see this happen as it is much like what is currently happening in the computing industry with programming code (both high and low level).
Unfortunatly other peoples work is stolen all the time and not attributed to its owners; big companies do this quite often, being a programmer myself and knowing people whose work has been pilfered I sympathise with your plight.
Good luck!
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Mauy Thai
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Posted - 2008.04.14 11:35:00 -
[53]
Its unlikely that all you have to do is grab some random guy on the street and ask who owns the artwork.
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.14 11:54:00 -
[54]
Yay for finding ways to raise tax money and increase government without actually being useful in any way?
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.14 12:06:00 -
[55]
Edited by: baltec1 on 14/04/2008 12:08:32
guys this kind of thing already happens.
Vanilla ice with Ice Ice Baby
Queen's Under pressure
Naturaly Vanilla ice says he didnt copy the greatness that is queen and in the process destroy a song by one of the best bands to ever walk this earth...
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.14 12:20:00 -
[56]
This does not apply to the rest of the world as the US is still part of the Berne Convention?
-----
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2008.04.14 12:50:00 -
[57]
I ask everyone to read the actual proposed amendment "to title 17 to provide for limitation of remedies in cases in which the copyright owner cannot be located, and for other purposes." (HR5439)
Only thing that should perk ears is what constitutes as reasonable. Gotta go but I'd love to type up a huge post of rabble rabble for spaceship pilots... |
Poreuomai
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.14 13:24:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Luh Windan
Its in the internet so it must be true....
or not
Please use your brains
That link is also on the internet! THAT couldn't possibly be wrong, could it?
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.14 13:46:00 -
[59]
That was the current chairman's main reason for shooting down the 2006 bill because there was no definitnion of a search for the unknown artist, simply put just emailing the server owner could have been considered enough or even worse just a googling the artwork.
Well the thing is this years purposed bill doesnt exist yet, we do know its comming and its going to try to do the same thing the 2006 one is, there are already groups of photographers and illustrators already preparing teams of lawyers to goto washington to try to convince not to pass the law in its current form which last the community was told was looking more liniant and looped holed than the 2006 version, there are actually 2 documents in works ones that cover digital media such as videos animations and music then there one covering artwork on websites such as the one i made an example for.
Now how is this going to take effect internationally is going to be in the air it doesnt mention the interactions between the two copyright laws, which is why the international copyright is fighting this document as well because they know it will cause massive amounts of legal trouble they cannot afford to put up with.
Im not a laywer but this will become a hassle to legetimate artist that are hard to reach.
The registering the artwork part was also a pos idea that isnt going to work and degrades the current copyright system currenly in use.
Now the other question if it would effect trademarks which is the service you have to pay in order to keep rights to Intellectal Properties such as characters.
All in all its more hoplah that professional and past-time artist dont need to have happen to them.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
True 1
Caldari
Black Podding
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Posted - 2008.04.14 13:52:00 -
[60]
"Furthermore, as we've discussed above, a work need not be registered with the Copyright Office, or with a private registrar, to be covered by copyright, so if someone infringes on your work and you send them a takedown notice, the work is not orphaned. Full stop. I cannot repeat this enough times. "
No Fear. you can get your Art back eh 
http://maradydd.livejournal.com/374886.html
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ READ ME ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.14 14:10:00 -
[61]
As a Professional Artist, I can say that this thread is incredibly stupid, and at least half of you are idiots.
You know how long I've been waiting for this line to be useful?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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True 1
Caldari
Black Podding
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Posted - 2008.04.14 16:29:00 -
[62]
since birth id guess
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.14 16:39:00 -
[63]
Originally by: True 1
since birth id guess
Yes, basically. |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.04.14 16:51:00 -
[64]
Wouldnt all attempts to steal an image, even if found on google be thworted if:
¬ Joe Blow 2008
is found on the piece?
I mean many artists sign their work in the first place so wouldnt that atleast push the person or company who wants to use the item in question in the right direction?
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.14 17:24:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Wouldnt all attempts to steal an image, even if found on google be thworted if:
¬ Joe Blow 2008
is found on the piece?
I mean many artists sign their work in the first place so wouldnt that atleast push the person or company who wants to use the item in question in the right direction?
No, that actually does pretty much nothing. While the copyright does belong to them at creation, just putting a stamp on it does nothing. Aside from registering your copyright, there is no other legal defense.
Although in some countries, the "poor man's copyright" can help, where you mail it to yourself and get the post office's post mark, but it really isn't a substitute.
Secondly, I could easily make it my name and 2007 instead.
To sum up, there is no legal validity to just putting the stamp on there. |
Fenderson
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 19:39:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Fenderson on 14/04/2008 19:43:28
pay attention because i am only going to say this once:
It is impossible to enforce copyright on the internet. Once the internet became accessible to the general public, it was only a matter of time before it became completely impossible to enforce copyright.
the amount of material and the rate at which that material is being copied and distributed is way, way beyond what any law-enforcement effort can ever keep up with. the best that authorities could ever hope for is to go after a few token cases here and there and hope that will scare everyone else (which it doesn't). there simply arent enough cops or courts in the entire world to stop the amount of copyright infringement that is currently happening, and that amount is growing all the time.
this has nothing to do with laws, it is a basic structural issue of the internet. laws will not change this one way or an other.
we have 2 choices.
1) we can fundamentally restructure the way the internet works so that every time data is transmitted between any 2 points, it is checked for copyrighted content. we would also have to outlaw encryption except in specially allowed cases, or at least give the government all our encryption keys. God knows how you would enforce that internationally.
2) we can get rid of copyright laws, or greatly expand fair use rights to the point where copyright is basically pointless other than for attribution.
please note that this is not an expression of how i think things should be. this is not a moral judgement about copyright. this is simply a practical reality that we all must face in our conversation about copyright.
edit: also it is worth noting that option 1 is not really an option. if world governments attempted such a thing, i think that a free, unsanctioned "shadow internet" would spring up in its place to allow free exchange of information once more.
in other words, copyright is already dead. the question now is how should artists react.
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Join ingame channels "DOA Poker" and "Eve Online Hold'em" |
jongalt
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 19:44:00 -
[67]
those look like false choices to me.
-jg.
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Fenderson
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 19:46:00 -
[68]
Originally by: jongalt
those look like false choices to me.
-jg.
your right, i forgot to mention the third choice, which is "continue to give artists the illusion that copyrights can be protected" so that lawyers can keep making money from suing people, while actual copyright protection continues to be non-existant.
DO YOU PLAY POKER????
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:04:00 -
[69]
What is a more interesting, and less stupid thing to say, is how this really only applies to purely digital media.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
|
Fenderson
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:13:00 -
[70]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
What is a more interesting, and less stupid thing to say, is how this really only applies to purely digital media.
and can you name me one kind of art that cannot be digitized?
i guess sculpture would be one, but there are very very few kinds of art that cannot be digitized. and even sculpture could be digitized to a certain extent (CAD files could be made, etc)
DO YOU PLAY POKER????
Join ingame channels "DOA Poker" and "Eve Online Hold'em" |
jongalt
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:27:00 -
[71]
copyrights are protected. all the time. why not call ASMP, or APA, or the graphic designer unions in NYC and ask them?
whats wrong with lawyers making money? thats a pretty cynical and bitter (and possibly NAIVE, read: from somebody who is "young") statement.
and anyway fenderson, there are less overt ways of "stealing" art.
many infringement cases are about an art director making a "comp" of a photo (or logo, or whatever) they saw in a portfolio, and giving it to another artist to copy. this ends up being cheaper than hiring the original artist and avoids the stigma of being accused of copyright infringement.
you would know this if you were a professional, fenderson. since you seem to talk from the "luxury" of being at most, a hobbyist, you might want to reconsider your position.
(read: dont talk pvp, if you dont pvp).
your theories are interesting, sure. as theories.
(read: EFT-warrioring is great, to a point)
but they dont address the reality of people trying to get by.
(read: EFT-warrioring is not the same as pvp-ing shin-ra.)
i love lev manovich as much as the next guy. richard prince, sherry levine? sure. all artists who "steal" (more accurately, they "appropriate"). however, there is a nuance that you dont get. art + commerce have different goals and are held to different standards.
if you're an artist working in the commercial sector, copyright infringement is an important protection of your efficacy to pursue a living wage.
if your an artist selling work in chelsea (NYC) galleries, copyright infringement is de rigeur. and has been since the 80's, yo.
-jg.
|
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:31:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Fenderson
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
What is a more interesting, and less stupid thing to say, is how this really only applies to purely digital media.
and can you name me one kind of art that cannot be digitized?
i guess sculpture would be one, but there are very very few kinds of art that cannot be digitized. and even sculpture could be digitized to a certain extent (CAD files could be made, etc)
Anything with a physicality, or performance to it, where it will not exist properly in 2D, or a 3D render.
Installation, Sculpture, Performance Art. Even paintings in a way( and certain photographic process), the physicality of a painting does not transfer into digitization.
Just because something can be digitized does not mean that it is the same.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:32:00 -
[73]
Originally by: jongalt
copyrights are protected. all the time. why not call ASMP, or APA, or the graphic designer unions in NYC and ask them?
I'd be interested to know if there were other members of the ASMP in Eve (Or APA, or PPA or whatever acronym I'm missing).
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
|
jongalt
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:36:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Fenderson
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
What is a more interesting, and less stupid thing to say, is how this really only applies to purely digital media.
and can you name me one kind of art that cannot be digitized?
i guess sculpture would be one, but there are very very few kinds of art that cannot be digitized. and even sculpture could be digitized to a certain extent (CAD files could be made, etc)
just because something can be digitized, doesnt mean its right to infringe on copyrights.
and just because its digital doesnt give one the luxury of claiming ownership unless one made it. (digitizing somebody else's work doenst give you sufficient ground to say "you made it").
which is what copyright is about, right?
being able to claim ownership over a work (digital or otherwise).
lev manovich might claim differently. sure.
and its great theory.
but it doesnt address the hard reality of anybody trying to make rent with their "art" skillz.
which was never the point of his "theory".
-jg.
|
Fenderson
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:37:00 -
[75]
Originally by: jongalt
copyrights are protected. all the time. why not call ASMP, or APA, or the graphic designer unions in NYC and ask them?
whats wrong with lawyers making money? thats a pretty cynical and bitter (and possibly NAIVE, read: from somebody who is "young") statement.
and anyway fenderson, there are less overt ways of "stealing" art.
many infringement cases are about an art director making a "comp" of a photo (or logo, or whatever) they saw in a portfolio, and giving it to another artist to copy. this ends up being cheaper than hiring the original artist and avoids the stigma of being accused of copyright infringement.
you would know this if you were a professional, fenderson. since you seem to talk from the "luxury" of being at most, a hobbyist, you might want to reconsider your position.
(read: dont talk pvp, if you dont pvp).
your theories are interesting, sure. as theories.
(read: EFT-warrioring is great, to a point)
but they dont address the reality of people trying to get by.
(read: EFT-warrioring is not the same as pvp-ing shin-ra.)
i love lev manovich as much as the next guy. richard prince, sherry levine? sure. all artists who "steal" (more accurately, they "appropriate"). however, there is a nuance that you dont get. art + commerce have different goals and are held to different standards.
if you're an artist working in the commercial sector, copyright infringement is an important protection of your efficacy to pursue a living wage.
if your an artist selling work in chelsea (NYC) galleries, copyright infringement is de rigeur. and has been since the 80's, yo.
-jg.
gotta love people who resort to character attacks when they run low on intellectual capital. i am not even going to respond to your claims of "young, non-professional, etc.. except to say that you don't know me.
anyway, my point is simply that copyright can not be, and is not enforced. limited enforcement is not enforcement. just ask the RIAA. yes, there are still ways that copyright violators can be prosecuted, or other retaliatory actions taken. however, the rate at which original works are being copied and shared far outstrips, and is growing much, much faster than our ability to enforce copyright. carry that trend out a bit further eventually there will be so little enforcement relative to the amount of copying that nobody even bothers anymore.
as the internet becomes larger and faster, our ability to enforce copyright goes down proportionally.
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Join ingame channels "DOA Poker" and "Eve Online Hold'em" |
ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Friend or Enemy
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:39:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Trolsk
Originally by: Shaun Klaroh
Someone already has the trademark.
Heh, a few funnies there
This one I particularly enjoyed; "As the conference abruptly ended, Carla Pitt, manager of Despair's Customer DisserviceÖ Department, was overheard to remark, "Would this finally mean we can finally call him "Colon" to his face?" "
----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here!!!!
|
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:40:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Fenderson
as the internet becomes larger and faster, our ability to enforce copyright goes down proportionally.
I just don't really think you know where the majority of copyright cases come from. Because very few people are as pedantic as to bother with dealing with the internet and the 14 year old who claims a Renoir painting is his on Myspace.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
|
Fenderson
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:42:00 -
[78]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Fenderson
as the internet becomes larger and faster, our ability to enforce copyright goes down proportionally.
I just don't really think you know where the majority of copyright cases come from. Because very few people are as pedantic as to bother with dealing with the internet and the 14 year old who claims a Renoir painting is his on Myspace.
please enlighten me then... where do the majority of copyright cases come from, and how will they never, ever be effected by the internet?
DO YOU PLAY POKER????
Join ingame channels "DOA Poker" and "Eve Online Hold'em" |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:51:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Fenderson
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Fenderson
as the internet becomes larger and faster, our ability to enforce copyright goes down proportionally.
I just don't really think you know where the majority of copyright cases come from. Because very few people are as pedantic as to bother with dealing with the internet and the 14 year old who claims a Renoir painting is his on Myspace.
please enlighten me then... where do the majority of copyright cases come from, and how will they never, ever be effected by the internet?
It's not that they won't be affected by the internet, it is that the internet does not suddenly mean that everything is being stolen everywhere.
A good chunk of the images on the internet that anyone would want to steal, are low-res files at something like 72dpi, which aren't much yes to anyone unless they're just going to use them for an online ad. Which does happen sometimes, but really not as often as you'd think.
Of course, any server in a Berne convention country is really easy to get them to pull it. And in the US, there was the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, which makes it as easy as a phone call.
The majority of cases simply existed when images have been licensed (or not) for one thing, and are being used for more than that.
The one last thing that would be a tell-tale sign, is that stock agencies would collapse, because infringement was so rampant, and impossible to enforce, that no one would be paying for these stock images. Even with the current state of microstock. And that hasn't happened as of yet, or is close to happening, Microstock agencies are booming at the moment.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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jongalt
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:51:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Fenderson
gotta love people who resort to character attacks when they run low on intellectual capital. i am not even going to respond to your claims of "young, non-professional, etc.. except to say that you don't know me.
anyway, my point is simply that copyright can not be, and is not enforced. limited enforcement is not enforcement. just ask the RIAA. yes, there are still ways that copyright violators can be prosecuted, or other retaliatory actions taken. however, the rate at which original works are being copied and shared far outstrips, and is growing much, much faster than our ability to enforce copyright. carry that trend out a bit further eventually there will be so little enforcement relative to the amount of copying that nobody even bothers anymore.
as the internet becomes larger and faster, our ability to enforce copyright goes down proportionally.
lol, fenderson. if you are taking my assumptions personally and getting offended, what can i say? im attacking your character???? LOL. ok. but am i wrong? you never corrected me, so im "assuming" that im still right.
(read: anybody can say, "you dont know me!". and we all know that's the cowards way out of any meaningful dialog because one is too afraid to stand behind a position of any substance, regardless if its "right" or "wrong".)
anyway,
nobody cares if work is copied and shared, fenderson. not even the original artists who make the work. thats not the point.
what the artists care about is getting paid if their work results in a financial transaction of some kind >as a direct result of their work (being copied, shared, or used)<. this is the part that is most important, and the fulcrum of copyright litigation.
-jg.
|
Fenderson
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 21:05:00 -
[81]
Originally by: jongalt
lol, fenderson. if you are taking my assumptions personally and getting offended, what can i say? im attacking your character???? LOL. ok. but am i wrong? you never corrected me, so im "assuming" that im still right.
(read: anybody can say, "you dont know me!". and we all know that's the cowards way out of any meaningful dialog because one is too afraid to stand behind a position of any substance, regardless if its "right" or "wrong".)
anyway,
nobody cares if work is copied and shared, fenderson. not even the original artists who make the work. thats not the point.
what the artists care about is getting paid if their work results in a financial transaction of some kind >as a direct result of their work (being copied, shared, or used)<. this is the part that is most important, and the fulcrum of copyright litigation.
-jg.
i am not offended, i am simply pointing out that your argument was more about who i am than about anything relevant to the topic at hand. and yes you are wrong, but i am not going to allow you to bait me into debating whether or not i am in a position to offer a valid opinion. if you want to argue against me, make a counterpoint to what i am saying not to who you assume i am.
and my point still stands. i am not saying that artists shouldnt be able to capitalize on their original work. i am simply saying that the internet increasingly makes it impossible to track who's work is who's, and allows people to use other's original work without paying for it. eventually there will be so much of this going on that there simply arent enough lawyers in the world to sue everyone.
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Lord Evangelian
Gallente
The White Mantle
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 22:38:00 -
[82]
I dont know about whats going ons...but is my pants safe...that is teh main things!!!
--------------------
The White Mantle |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 23:04:00 -
[83]
Originally by: jongalt
which is what copyright is about, right?
being able to claim ownership over a work (digital or otherwise).
No, that isn't what it is about. Copyright exists precisely because you cannot own something that can be reproduced indefinitely, and which impacts on other rights (like freedom of speech). A copy of a book has the same content as the manuscript: the story the author created. There is no way he can own that. As soon as one reader besides himself reads the story, it's no longer just his story. Reading the story is part of someone else's life and experience. The author cannot own someone else's mind and life experience.
Copyright grants a specific set of limited rights - which are not the same as ownership rights - to creators. Just to cite one difference, unlike ownership, copyright expires. Also unlike ownership, copyright allows for Fair Use (or Fair Dealing as the EU calls it) which means the author does not get to approve or disapprove of all uses of his work. Property isn't like that.
The Basics of Copyright
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 23:37:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Guillame HerschelNo, that isn't what it is about. [/quote
What is Copyright?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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nahtoh
Caldari
Bull Industries
United For 0rder
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 00:21:00 -
[85]
Originally by: baltec1
Edited by: baltec1 on 14/04/2008 12:08:32
guys this kind of thing already happens.
Vanilla ice with Ice Ice Baby
Queen's Under pressure
Naturaly Vanilla ice says he didnt copy the greatness that is queen and in the process destroy a song by one of the best bands to ever walk this earth...
Yeah when drunk I have been know to start a "lych the DJ" and "Vanila Ice Must Die" chants in clubs when i get faked out by the start of that &^$%ú%&*(*)(&% *&^(&(^$&^%*&& rip off.
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Quincy TawHarr
Minmatar
Kanatami Co-Operative
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 00:35:00 -
[86]
Originally by: baltec1
Edited by: baltec1 on 14/04/2008 12:08:32
guys this kind of thing already happens.
Vanilla ice with Ice Ice Baby
Queen's Under pressure
Naturaly Vanilla ice says he didnt copy the greatness that is queen and in the process destroy a song by one of the best bands to ever walk this earth...
I fail to see how creating one of the greatest songs ever recorded in the history of mankind utilizing the catchy part of a mediocre tune constitutes destroying...
After all Vanilla taught us all how to "Stop, Collaborate and Listen." It's called "sampling" it's not infringement if you only take a little TINY piece... well at least if the end result is one of the single biggest hits of a decade.
Scrapheap fun on Bombs:
Takahashi: Atm you're essentially "firing the equivalent of a Ferox"
Dixon: Letting people fire actual Ferox's would be nice... it'd make them almost useful. |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 16:26:00 -
[87]
Edited by: SiJira on 19/04/2008 16:26:36
unlikely to harm ccp
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Norwest
Siege Warfare And Recon Missions
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 16:53:00 -
[88]
For those who are interested, the OP's panic was caused by this article in Animation World Magazine.
[Yes I say panic, because it the bill hasn't been drafted yet, and, and the US hasn't even whispered about withdrawing from the Berne Convention - which governs international copyright law]
A more informed take on this matter (and one that's nicely linked to actual US government info) can be found Here
Just to insert a bit of outside sources into the discussion
*****
Rule 27: 'Don't be afraid to be the first to resort to violence.'
-The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates [schlockmercenary.com] |
xJillianx
Gallente
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 18:38:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Nova Fox
Chibbera would respond he wouldn't know who did the art work.
Who the F**K is Chibbera? I think you mean to say Chribba :)
Develop the Eve-Dictionary and include "Chribba (n) - Owner of such wonders as the Veldnaught and eve-files.com"
|
Luh Windan
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 18:49:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Norwest
A more informed take on this matter (and one that's nicely linked to actual US government info) can be found Here
Sadly that article didn't seem to improve the quality of thinking when I linked to it earlier on in this thread. Perhaps another link will help but sadly I think that panic and overreaction are the past times of a great many of the posters on this forum (ranging from "oh noes eve is dead (again)" to "carebears/pirates* get an unfair advantage" (*delete as applicable).
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Poreuomai
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.04.24 11:16:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 24/04/2008 11:20:04
Originally by: Luh Windan
Sadly that article didn't seem to improve the quality of thinking when I linked to it earlier on in this thread.
Perhaps because, as I noted, that's just another article on the (unreliable) internet. 
|
Nova Fox
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.04.24 12:38:00 -
[92]
The US Copyright Office
Plain english and unbiased veiw of the legislation, adding to the op, goes over the us history of copyright including pre and soon to be post international involvment and the orgins of the orphaned works bill and the reasoning it was made to be.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Nova Fox
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.04.24 12:43:00 -
[93]
The US Copyright Office
Plain english and unbiased veiw of the legislation, adding to the op, goes over the us history of copyright including pre and soon to be post international involvment and the orgins of the orphaned works bill and the reasoning it was made to be.
This is
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
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