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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Saint
C C P
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Posted - 2008.04.14 17:49:00 -
[1]
CCP Ginger and Hutch bring you into the world of the Volunteer program once again. Speaking on YARR, the newest addition to the team and introducing EVElopedia. Check out Keeping the Hoff out of EVE to find out more about the team and how you can become a part of making EVElopedia a success! |
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Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
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Posted - 2008.04.14 17:58:00 -
[2]
YAARRR!!!  |
0raven0
Point-Zero
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.14 18:28:00 -
[3]
Another stupid dev blog because CCP has nothing good to write about..
------
 Quote:
tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY
tuxford: spelled*
Oveur: rofl
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Trinity Dusk
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.04.14 18:40:00 -
[4]
Surely good guides in single location will help the playerbase, especially newer players.  |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.04.14 18:57:00 -
[5]
evelopedia? err ok... not really all that great an idea. Such a thing already exists and nobody uses it because you sort of need to know what you are looking for in terms of an encyclopedia. Instead there are so many other good options that EVE-official could spend their time in doing?
When was the last time the Item Database was updated?
I'm amazed the rorqual got included and nothing else... evemon and eft both seem to keep on top of things.
What's with all these teams being made that have virtually no purpose?
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://eve.grismar.net/wikka.php?wakka=WikiHome
http://eve.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
I like the grismar one. |
Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2008.04.14 19:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
When was the last time the Item Database was updated?
I'm amazed the rorqual got included and nothing else... evemon and eft both seem to keep on top of things.
So you want volunteers to update the Item Database? Why?
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2008.04.14 19:27:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Hoshi on 14/04/2008 19:30:30
Not sure if it's still the plan but the main thing that was supposed to make this thing different than other eve wikias would be context sensitive access ingame. If someone clicks the ? button on the scan probe window it would open up the evelopedia article about scan probes (that just might be my guide :) for example.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Lab Technician071548
Astro-Support Services
East India Company
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Posted - 2008.04.14 19:31:00 -
[8]
This sounds like a way for CCP to avoid paying someone to document their game.
I recall a ship reimbursement request that was refused because there was an undocumented and, as far as I can tell, unknown to the general population method for getting out of the situation that I was in.
On the good side, at least this kind of stupid stuff that is generated entirely by CCPs own refusal to document the game adequately will be addressed to some degree.
Yay CCP, way to get people to put in uncompensated time documenting your product for you.
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Do you need special permission to type in this color? |
Avalira
Caldari
Pax Minor Expiscor Pario Addo
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Posted - 2008.04.14 19:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lab Technician071548
This sounds like a way for CCP to avoid paying someone to document their game.
*snip*
Yay CCP, way to get people to put in uncompensated time documenting your product for you.
It's not the first time they do it, but I actually think this is a good idea. It will be official information and with enough hands it will be properly documented. CCP will probably remove the item database on the website and link it directly to the Wiki.
The wiki has the potential to become much more than this website ever could, holding vast amounts of information and if done correctly it will be easily accessible too.
Selling the following:
Probe BPC's
ARK JF
Silicon Diborite
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Reptzo
Master Miners
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Posted - 2008.04.14 19:47:00 -
[10]
I think an official EVElopedia will be cool. BUT, only if it works in game, and all items (ships, mods, skills, etc) are links to the object's info window. So if you look up "Minmatar battleships", it wont simply list the names of them, but you will be able to click the names, and bring up info windows. Also, as already posted above, the ability to click a ? in the info window or something so you can get the wiki explanation of an item.
Another thing, how can you flame people who aren't on staff, for not doing staff jobs? The people on this team haven't been taken off "fix the game" team, they are unpaid volunteers. You may as well yell at your neighbor for not fixing the database on EVE, it will have the same effect.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.04.14 19:55:00 -
[11]
I hope that you still make everything tied right into in-game, so that you can read up as if it it was a gaint in game FAQ.
the new welcome page should have a link and such and it should open in-game.
Also make it so you have to have been playing for 3 months before you can edit, because to be honest before 3 months you won't have anything to add.
maybe even more elitle year old players only? new players shouldn't wine about not being able to add info if they don't know how the game works yet.
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Lab Technician071548
Astro-Support Services
East India Company
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Posted - 2008.04.14 20:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Reptzo
Another thing, how can you flame people who aren't on staff, for not doing staff jobs? The people on this team haven't been taken off "fix the game" team, they are unpaid volunteers. You may as well yell at your neighbor for not fixing the database on EVE, it will have the same effect.
I don't think anybody has flamed the individuals. The only negativity I see is coming from people, like myself, who wonder why CCP has not documented their own game in the past and why they are now allowing volunteers to do it. I think there are many reasons for why this is so. The newer people who are frustrated that they can't find anything decent to explain how to perform rudimentary tasks in the game come to mind. Or, as in my case, people who get _(*&ed on a petition because of some undocumented feature within the game.
As far as the volunteers are concerned, more power to them in creating the content that CCP should have spent time and money on. I rather suspect that they are not on the verge of bankruptcy. |
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ISD Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc
ISD YARR
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Posted - 2008.04.14 20:50:00 -
[13]
Just thought I would say hi, and tell everyone that I would love to answer all the questions about the EVELopedia, but I can only answer you questions about the ISD team.
- Thanks Hutch.
[i]ôWar is not the dreadful end to all things as mankind fears. Conflict brings balance to nature as it adapts, mutates, and transforms itself into something stronger than before. |
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Einsteina TX
Caldari
Pax Minor Asylum
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Posted - 2008.04.14 20:52:00 -
[14]
I thinks that some of you forget that EVElopedia was proposed a while back. And as I remember it was proposed as a In game as well as an Out game ressources.
So lets say you have a module's description that you do not understand, you'll just have to click the included EvElopedia link and get a whole lot more of information.
I do hope I'm not mistaken as this would greatly improve the EvExperience.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
"La repr |
Ricky1989
Caldari
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.14 20:56:00 -
[15]
I've applied for this, I am really interested!
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Vitrael
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.14 21:09:00 -
[16]
We hate Hoff!
Grrrr....
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Vitrael
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.14 21:13:00 -
[17]
May I remind those posting here not to mention that they've applied to ISD? You may want to edit your post. ISD has very strict confidentiality rules.
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Gridwalker
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.14 21:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lab Technician071548
As far as the volunteers are concerned, more power to them in creating the content that CCP should have spent time and money on. I rather suspect that they are not on the verge of bankruptcy.
I can't think of any MMO that doesn't utilize volunteers for everything from documentation to customer service. Documenting any software project can easily be a significant portion of development costs.
But besides the monetary savings, who should document EVE? The developers, instead of fixing bugs and adding features? Have you ever seen the results of a developer attempting to document a system? Ugh!
Should EVE hire contract writers, who never saw EVE prior to shopping for the contract?
It seems clear to me that the only way to even hope to capture all of the nuances of EVE is to have the entire community Wiki it in a semi-moderated fashion.
-Grid
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.04.14 23:42:00 -
[19]
Good to see this has gotten off the ground, and I hope that the ISD has something special in mind to thank/induct the players who run the 3-4 EvE Wiki's in existence today, as well as the players who contribute to said Wikis.
≡v≡ Strategic Maps now in Eve-Online Store |
Frug
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.04.14 23:47:00 -
[20]
Eve volunteers - doing ccp's job for them.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
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tla s'hpyt
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Posted - 2008.04.15 00:08:00 -
[21]
seems like a good idea.... i still don't get why ppl are complaining that ccp let us help make eve stuff, it save ccp money (which they can use for say.. a jita specific server) it gives ppl like me who want to get into game making an opportunity to get a little into it, and the ppl complaining don't have to do anything they don't want to.... =s
anyways after reading first 2 paragraphs i thought "there is gonna be a lot of rick rolling coming from the /b/tards who play eve" (if u don't know don't ask) and that was before seeing the link to the video. I hope you make it so only experienced players can edit the wiki and keep good backups so if some alliance desides to go crazy and edit all wiki entries (not mentioning any names) you can bring it back without too much trouble. Other people might try and edit it just because they don't know how it reaally works or have it slightly wrong. Just make sure YARR have there own mini ban hammers to take care of problems like this, and a eve age limit for editing wiki would be good too.
One thing I'd like to see for this is YARR to come up with a list of content that should & shouldn't be in the wiki (just a general guide not a be all and end all of wiki content). content like "this module is effected by *** skills" should go in while stuff like "this module is currently overpowered, as are much of caldari items and ships" should not. It's not always that easy though, eg. a simple version of the tracking formula or some good setups this item can be used in, a in game history of uses of this item (eg. telling the newbs about multiple stacking mwd's of past), rare items like the old mines etc.
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Katana Seiko
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.15 00:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Katana Seiko on 15/04/2008 00:12:05
Well, if you'd do some things, I'm quite sure that this would be a success:
#1 restrict the writing to paying players only (players should be able to log in with their account info)
#2 restrict the guidelines to topics a little (i.e. "no articles about players, corporations or alliances allowed" and "no personal information may be included")
#3 give it a subdomain of eve-online.com - maybe wiki.eve-online.com
#4 don't call it EVElopedia. "EVEpedia" or "EVE wiki" sound way better.
#5 make it multi-language (all languages that EVE supports should be supported in EVEpedia)
---
"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind!" -Terry Pratchett |
halykon
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Posted - 2008.04.15 01:12:00 -
[23]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but. The eve-wiki is going to be a web based resource obtainable in game by using the in-game browser.. right? The people who are going to spend the most time looking at it are probably going to be new players, yes?
With that in mind, it means newer players are going to spend a lot more time looking at the horror that is the in game browser, its going to become a major defining feature of the game(the wiki, not the browser). So shouldn't we update the browser a bit to where it'll actually handle most page renders? License it off Mozilla, something. I don't care if I'm able to view a youtube video in the browser or not, but to be able to handle forms correctly would be nice. |
Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.04.15 02:43:00 -
[24]
about frakkin time!
--
Originally by: CCP Oveur
...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Zoi Opia
Opia Investments
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Posted - 2008.04.15 05:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Katana Seiko
#2 restrict the guidelines to topics a little (i.e. "no articles about players, corporations or alliances allowed" and "no personal information may be included")
I don't think this would be such a good idea. New Eden has a rich history created by these players, corporations and alliances, and not allowing it in would be a mistake. What better place for new players to learn about Chribba and Veldnought, The Great Northern War, Fall of ASCN, or even the current State of the Goonion than an official encyclopedia?
That being said, the volunteers should enforce neutral point of view on all articles, protect them from vandalism when required, and include disclaimers on articles discussing current events and thus subject to rapid change.
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CDLPeacemaker
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Posted - 2008.04.15 06:24:00 -
[26]
Edited by: CDLPeacemaker on 15/04/2008 06:24:35
Give a man a Fish and he will eat and be happy for one day.
Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day, happy for the rest of his life.
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PC5
Bermuda Syndrome
C0VEN
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Posted - 2008.04.15 11:47:00 -
[27]
Another BORING dev blog.  |
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CCP Fear
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Posted - 2008.04.15 13:04:00 -
[28]
Just to answer a few questions about the wiki itself;
It will be accessible in-game. It was designed to be rendered within the IGB. The exact way of how it will function with the "?" is not yet decided, but that was it's intended purpose.
The item database will be available within it, will all relevant information and will be up to date ;)
The basic principle behind a wiki, is that it is updated quickly by those who know. If it is a favourite setup of a ship, nice systems to mine in etc. whatever, it is your tool to use.
Only paying accounts will be able do edit and add pages to the wiki. Others will have view access only
The subdomain will be under the eve-online.com, but there might be a seperate domain as well.
The name went through months of name calling, conventions and so forth, we thought about the "EVE Wiki" and "EvePedia" etc, and we settled on the EVElopedia as it's final name.
It uses MediaWiki, and that has built in multi language support. However, that is up to you guys, to populate in your own language as well.
The guidelines for the wiki are similar to the forums, constructive and helpful. Which it all is about. The same rules apply, cause problems and you aren't allowed back.
The wiki is thought as a community tool for you, which we will moderate to keep it in tact and not a huge mess of inflamatory stuff that nobody will then want to read.
But there will be more news about this once we are closer to release.
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Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.04.15 13:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Originally by: Jason Edwards
When was the last time the Item Database was updated?
I'm amazed the rorqual got included and nothing else... evemon and eft both seem to keep on top of things.
So you want volunteers to update the Item Database? Why?
Why do volunteers and informal figure so heavily into the CCP corporate thinking? It boggles the mind given their incredibly lackluster record. Volunteer rp people, volunteer bug reporters, volunteer translators (especially terrible at that), volunteer documenters, volunteer forum moderators, volunteer reporters...
What ever happened to professional distance?
Do we have volunteers doing ship balancing, handling petitions and server administration too?
Unreal.
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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DEVILSENIGMA
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.15 13:25:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Erotic Irony
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Originally by: Jason Edwards
When was the last time the Item Database was updated?
I'm amazed the rorqual got included and nothing else... evemon and eft both seem to keep on top of things.
So you want volunteers to update the Item Database? Why?
Why do volunteers and informal figure so heavily into the CCP corporate thinking? It boggles the mind given their incredibly lackluster record. Volunteer rp people, volunteer bug reporters, volunteer translators (especially terrible at that), volunteer documenters, volunteer forum moderators, volunteer reporters...
Because Eve is a really huge game, with a lot of players. A lot of ideas are made possible due to help of volunteers. Its simple, CCP is providing you a way to help the game. If you want to help out then join, otherwise dont. If I had the time to help Eve then I would definitely join. I don't realize what problem you have with volunteers.
Think of it this way, instead of having a un-supported Eve wiki run by fans, CCP is providing its support for a wiki. I think that is a step up. How many companies do you see allowing players to help better the game? If you could make game <X> better by helping out, wouldn't you?
Quote:
What ever happened to professional distance?
Do we have volunteers doing ship balancing, handling petitions and server administration too?
Unreal.
All those are done by dedicated devs and always has been, no need to spice up your post by posting ridiculous notions. 
PS; Forum moderators are no longer volunteers
PPS; Is this the real "Erotic Irony" or has his char been sold?
---
Eve Database | TQ Server Status
Coldfront Come in and feel the chill |
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Brutal Psycho
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.15 13:30:00 -
[31]
I wonder why it is sometime that people are so quick to complain.
Look at the Microsoft model of thing: Tight control on development and input. Result: Windows Vista, the new laughing stock of operating systems with more bugs than could be imagined.
Now Look at LINUX: Completely developed by those skilled real world individual under open source compilation. Result: Far more stable system
Having volunteers is a great way of making a product better. If you invest your personal time and effort in to something your more apt to do it right than if you get payed for it else you would not have volunteered your services. So instead of complaining all the time why not get involved? Adding negative things to this thread or others has not improved a single thing about our collective game experience. Get involved and it will. That's just my 2 cents.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.15 13:36:00 -
[32]
Originally by: CCP Fear
[...]
The name went through months of name calling, conventions and so forth, we thought about the "EVE Wiki" and "EvePedia" etc, and we settled on the EVElopedia as it's final name.
[...]
Sounds to me a bit too close to "elope-dia"... wouldn't you rather reconsider, and name it maybe "EVEclopedia" or even "EVEcyclopedia" ?
Yeah, it's longer, but IMHO a bit nicer-sounding.
1|2|3|4|5. |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.15 13:39:00 -
[33]
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"
or:
""Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he will wear a silly hat and spend all night in a tent drinking coffee"
--
(Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.04.15 13:58:00 -
[34]
Originally by: DEVILSENIGMA
Because Eve is a really huge game, with a lot of players. A lot of ideas are made possible due to help of volunteers. Its simple, CCP is providing you a way to help the game. If you want to help out then join, otherwise dont. If I had the time to help Eve then I would definitely join. I don't realize what problem you have with volunteers.
Eve is exceptional among all the games I've ever played where the greatest barrier to entry has been fundamentally the lack of documentation. There is simply no justification for having a game but going out of your way to hide or unnecessarily obscure the rule set--to this day we still rely on data dumps and scraps from CCP to have complete ship and gameplay information.
You can't purport to have a complex game and yet take no time to support or adequately define those features. Consider, the item db on the site is still out of date, the player guide still largely a copy paste of forum faqs, the knowledge base lacking in depth in many areas, corp management interface the most embarrassingly long lasting one, the turret guide flash tool was practically written by players and integrated into the site, it wasn't until months after Elissen's jump planner emerged that the broken capital nav window emerged. In an ironic turn, as if CCP was trying to remind us what a good thing it had done, it couldn't be closed.
The list goes on an on, npc mission distribution, AU and LY measures, faction ships, heat damage formula, virtually the entirety of POS mechanics and station service combat, invention and a whole host of other content I likely don't know about. Yes, I'd love to help document the game and create a system to catch bugs and not only create mechanism for new players and old to look up definitions, formulas and thoughtful analysis but after so many years I've spent more time reading up to play the game than playing the game--there is only so much time I can give to trying covert jump bridge mechanics, messing with all manner of timers and the like before you realize its a massive project that has no beginning or end and historically has elicited no interest for CCP. Surely this is a futile program if CCP itself doesn't first take a serious interest?
Many old players remember the EVE-i item db, forum and compare tools were the single best touchstone for gameplay documentation and Eve hasn't recovered from that and its been five years. Ultimately have no a priori or any other kind obligation to make EVE better, I am however always expecting CCP to deliver some bare minimum on this regard. Instead of remedying this issue, CCP have turned to distractions like fanfests, a CCG game, EVETV, rp content, all of which have been reinforced by volunteers, when core playability and the resources that guarantee that gameplay, should have had precedence.
Quote:
Think of it this way, instead of having a un-supported Eve wiki run by fans, CCP is providing its support for a wiki. I think that is a step up. How many companies do you see allowing players to help better the game? If you could make game <X> better by helping out, wouldn't you?
It's not enough that I pay for the game? Surely IT admins and those with technical training would be better suited and more efficiently remedy their game than I would, otherwise your point is fallacious.
Quote:
All those are done by dedicated devs and always has been, no need to spice up your post by posting ridiculous notions.
PS; Forum moderators are no longer volunteers
PPS; Is this the real "Erotic Irony" or has his char been sold?
The numerous story line related mini scandals and leaks, the unresponsive forum moderation team, the T20 scandal are all ridiculous notions or symptoms of the problematic relationship between professional employees and standards?
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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ISD Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc
ISD YARR
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Posted - 2008.04.15 14:30:00 -
[35]
Just because it has not been mentioned in this blog can i remind everyone that standard rules for applying to ISD applies to YARR as well including
"That you must be at least 18 years of age to participate in the ISD volunteer program."
- Thanks Hutch.
[i]ôWar is not the dreadful end to all things as mankind fears. Conflict brings balance to nature as it adapts, mutates, and transforms itself into something stronger than before. |
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.04.15 14:53:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Andrue
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"
or:
""Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he will wear a silly hat and spend all night in a tent drinking coffee"
Eve Appropriate version:
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Throw him overboard and you never have to feed him again."
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[]=
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\\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Wrayeth
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.04.15 15:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Hutch
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"
That's actually a misquote. The correct version is "Build a man a fire and he is warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life."
-Wrayeth
n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Hober Hardin
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Posted - 2008.04.15 15:05:00 -
[38]
Are the people writing the EVElopedia all moving to the planet Terminus?? It's a ruse I tell you!!!
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Miyamoto Uroki
PURE Legion
Pure.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 15:53:00 -
[39]
Sounds good so far.
But there's a ****load of FAIL at the name.. not funny..
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face
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Suncats Shadow
Caldari
Archon Industries
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:14:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Suncats Shadow on 15/04/2008 16:14:39
Having to shamefully admit to watching the first 20 secs of those videos that were linked in the blog, it is totally clear to me that Ginger and Hutch obviously need a lot more work assigned to them.
Since they have way to much free time on their hands if they are locating stuff (read dog poo) type videos like those to a dev blog.
Other than that I am looking forward to the Yarr-lopedia in the near future.
King of the puffy tail
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Aeden
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:02:00 -
[41]
What happened to gameplay devblogs ?
2isk
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Toxe
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:37:00 -
[42]
Plain and simple: great idea, Devs.
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Adam Coyle
Caldari
Vesa Supply Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.15 19:06:00 -
[43]
Does this mean that the Item Database will finaly be available ingame  (and possibly more up to date)?
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Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:16:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Ki Anna on 15/04/2008 20:17:23
Originally by: Adam Coyle
Does this mean that the Item Database will finaly be available ingame (and possibly more up to date)?
The Item Database is already available in-game. It is known as the Market screen.
PS: So the YARR team are basicly Wiki-moderators?
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Ortu Konsinni
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:17:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Ortu Konsinni on 15/04/2008 20:19:23
Since this will basically be a wiki, consider the situation where two people are editing one same article and have a different opinion about what the article should state or the way it should state it. How would such a conflict be resolved? I realize neutrality is the keyword in this argument, but neutrality is sometimes a very gray area.
No doubt you've seen or heard of such conflicts on Wikipedia and they sometimes get pretty heated.
Not only that, but Wikipedia admin/moderator abuse is rampant on Wikipedia, e.g. if one of the two example people I named above is an admin/moderator and the other is not, the admin/moderator tends to win even if the other party has something valuable to say which the admin/mod thinks should not be part of the article. Furthermore, since Wikipedia admins/mods are often butt buddies, a situation where a regular user is silenced because an admin/mod does not welcome the other guy's opinion in "his" article tends to go unresolved, or the non-admin contributor entirely prevented from being able to edit pages.
So, again, how would that all work (assuming it's been decided yet)?
I'm asking that because I tend to dislike the way things are moderated on the forums and am therefore slightly worried that this wiki will have the same problems that I see on the forums.
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High quality pics of most EVE ships! |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2008.04.15 22:08:00 -
[46]
While I don't share Ortos overall pessimistic view his fears are the reason I am split on if to include char/corp/alliance info/history or not. While I do think it would be a good addition it's also a flame fest and edit war just waiting to happen.
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PhoenixHeart
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Posted - 2008.04.15 22:39:00 -
[47]
I would like to point out that:
Yelling at CCP to fix their own documentation using staff members, instead of "suckering in" people who have an interest in doing something like this...
Then yelling at them for using staff members to update their documentation because they could be doing more efficient things like fixing the game...
Is fairly self-contradicting....
Just sayin'
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.04.16 02:58:00 -
[48]
is the return of the fansubmission page your doing?
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Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.16 07:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: PhoenixHeart
Yelling at CCP to fix their own documentation using staff members, instead of "suckering in" people who have an interest in doing something like this...
Then yelling at them for using staff members to update their documentation because they could be doing more efficient things like fixing the game...
Is fairly self-contradicting....
Just sayin'
Given that there are expert players out there that know alot more about specific topics than your average CCP staff member....
And thinking that staff involved in a web project would in any way know what to do if dumped head first in Python. :o
Yeah, some logical thinking out there.
Easily the best way to do it, infact it already is being done to a certain extent by players, it's just needed to somewhat be more broad and offical instead of thousands of very specific guides.
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Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.04.16 07:52:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 16/04/2008 07:52:17
I hope that the YARR team will pay especially close attention to the wiki pages describing alliances and corporations that will surely spring up. I can already smell the CAOD troll brigade's excited sweat from twenty miles away. If that isn't strongly regulated, there will be no alliance profile in EVE that is not maliciously defiled at least once a day.
One consideration in this case could be the automatic creation of empty alliance profile pages for every alliance that is created within the game, and grant permission to edit it only to actual members of that alliance.
Of course, one would have to decide what happens to alliances that disband and maybe even reform later, or change their name.
Bored during Downtime? Why not try Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN! |
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Vargo Hoat
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.16 09:41:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ishina Fel
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 16/04/2008 07:52:17
I hope that the YARR team will pay especially close attention to the wiki pages describing alliances and corporations that will surely spring up. I can already smell the CAOD troll brigade's excited sweat from twenty miles away. If that isn't strongly regulated, there will be no alliance profile in EVE that is not maliciously defiled at least once a day.
One consideration in this case could be the automatic creation of empty alliance profile pages for every alliance that is created within the game, and grant permission to edit it only to actual members of that alliance.
Of course, one would have to decide what happens to alliances that disband and maybe even reform later, or change their name.
Related to WIKI vandals they will get banned. That was cleary written. And I believe that each alliance will eventually run out of vandals after some banning.
Creation of empty alliance pages pretty much breaks the idea of "freedom" in the WIKIs and I seriously doubt CCP will allow that.
Disbanded alliance/corp pages can be kept as EVE Online History for the new generations to see all the fame and infame before them.
NHF - just my piece in the cake. ;)
Do you want a Caldari Marauder? Contact me for a BPC! |
Avalira
Caldari
Pax Minor Expiscor Pario Addo
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Posted - 2008.04.16 22:48:00 -
[52]
With MediaWiki this isn't really a problem. As the above poster said, firstly you just need to ban the people doing this. Secondly MediaWiki keeps a couple hundred records of each page after each edit (dependant on settings). That means if someone defiles a page a mod simply needs to ban the person and revert to the previous saved page. In any case I wouldn't be too worried about it, if it works on the internets it can work in eves . |
tla s'hpyt
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Posted - 2008.04.17 05:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Vargo Hoat
And I believe that each alliance will eventually run out of vandals after some banning.
Quote:
... have u ever heard of an alliance called goonswarm?
sry had to say it... but I know i'm not the only one who's thinking it. they have maliciously edited wiki's b4 and they do have the numbers. |
Vargo Hoat
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.17 09:10:00 -
[54]
Originally by: tla s'hpyt
Edited by: tla s''hpyt on 17/04/2008 05:57:17
Originally by: Vargo Hoat
And I believe that each alliance will eventually run out of vandals after some banning.
... have u ever heard of an alliance called goonswarm?
sry had to say it... but I know i'm not the only one who's thinking it. they have maliciously edited wiki's b4 and they do have the numbers.
Yes, but repeated vandalism can cause the banning of a whole alliance from the WIKI and then they could think about what they do. Don't forget that the WIKI will be linked to the ingame accounts (just like the forum) so you won't be able to create tons of new users and spam around.. |
Eternal Hatred
Amarr
Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies
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Posted - 2008.04.17 12:30:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Erotic Irony
Why do volunteers and informal figure so heavily into the CCP corporate thinking?
Free? Cheap? Slavery?
Pick one.
Savings they get from using "volunteer" slaves surpasses damages they might cause. |
Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.17 17:46:00 -
[56]
A question with regards to the YARR team and the EVElopedia: will the information in it be confirmed as accurate by CCP?
For example, the Division-Mission Types table listed in the player guide is different from the one listed by other sources. I expect that the player guide is the more accurate of the two, but having seen the guides fall out of date in the past, it is hard to know when the guide can be trusted.
So would the YARR team, be able to get confirmation from CCP as to which details are confirmed as accurate by CCP and which are speculation by players.
Some other examples of things that could potential need confirmation would be any formulas or statistical information regarding turret tracking, ewar, broker fees, invention successes, and probably many others.
I am not expecting that CCP will disclose all of the secrets, but atleast confirm, via the YARR team, which parts of a guide can be confirmed by the game specs, and which ones are simply educated guesses by players.
It would also be worthwhile to know what level of communication members of the YARR team can expect between them and CCP with regards to assuring that the content of the EVElopedia.
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csebal
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.04.20 16:35:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ki Anna
A question with regards to the YARR team and the EVElopedia: will the information in it be confirmed as accurate by CCP?
For example, the Division-Mission Types table listed in the player guide is different from the one listed by other sources. I expect that the player guide is the more accurate of the two, but having seen the guides fall out of date in the past, it is hard to know when the guide can be trusted.
So would the YARR team, be able to get confirmation from CCP as to which details are confirmed as accurate by CCP and which are speculation by players.
Some other examples of things that could potential need confirmation would be any formulas or statistical information regarding turret tracking, ewar, broker fees, invention successes, and probably many others.
I am not expecting that CCP will disclose all of the secrets, but atleast confirm, via the YARR team, which parts of a guide can be confirmed by the game specs, and which ones are simply educated guesses by players.
It would also be worthwhile to know what level of communication members of the YARR team can expect between them and CCP with regards to assuring that the content of the EVElopedia.
Well, if they confirm the guesses that are right, they might very well give us the exact specs, as otherwise people will just keep guessing until the devs get bored of saying 'nay' and finally give in to give the details, or stop answering those guesses.
As for the whole idea of player written manual, as "CCP could create a manual, but it would eventually get outdated". Well then my YARR friend, maybe "CCP could also keep the manual up to date", like many other companies on this globe do".
Im not against the idea of having a player written manual - although i would find it real sad if a player would know more about how to play the game than the guys writing the game - but im quite offended by the rationalization of a player edited manual as the CCP made one would just get outdated.
It is only outdated, because CCP neglected to keep it up to date. That much for my rant.
For the possible conflicts that might arise from contradicting opinions fighting on the wiki... well, as long as YARR people are required to stay neutral in discussions, there will be no problems. This isnt wikipedia.. if a wiki moderator misbehaves, you still have CCP to turn to, and im quite sure they would kick the volunteer in the a$$ would he/she really abuse his/her power.
My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe.
Phear the arrows of the HUNs >>----> |
Hoshi
Black Water.
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Posted - 2008.04.24 09:17:00 -
[58]
One problem I see if this is to use the ingame browser is speed. Even the simplest pages take several seconds to load, if people are supposed to follow interlinks etc it can become a very painful experience.
If this is to become a success you should consider overhauling the ingame browser first.
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