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Is trust 'optional' in EVE?

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Smakz Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:02:00 - [1] Edited by: Smakz on 17/04/2008 15:03:48 edit: typos Hi there, yesterday I experienced something curious: To get my standings up (to 8.0 for creating JCs) I was missioning Lvl4's in the Kaka-Laka ..ermà Kakakela area yesterday. One mission ("Vengeance") brought me two jumps away to Umokka, where the mission had to be completed. I went through the first two stages easily with my Drake, and altho the BSs had a strongheaded tank, I managed to kill them using loads of Navy Scourges to bring 'em down. (Ya, I know àwill use my Raven and torps next time ) Anyways, in the last stage in which to kill "Rachen Mysina" (or however that dude is called), he just had a shield regen rate, that easily compensated my damage. I was totally stuck in this mission looksathisraven. I didn't want to cancel the mission, so I naively asked in Local, as there were many pilots chitchating and smacking each other in a humorous way, if there's anyone who could help me out. Told them, that I wasn't doing enough damage, regen rate was too high, and that I needed help. So, what happened next, really made me perplex à and actually a little sad: Soon many of them where all over me in Local, telling me, that it was a trick, and that I was trying to scam people to get easy kills and stuff like that. I am aware of the fact, that if you are in a fleet, you can kill fleet members without Concord saving your a.s.s., but all I wanted was a helping hand. After a couple of minutes of discussion, there was a fellow countryman, who helped me with his Rokh and later another pilot joined to help us in webbing Rachen, so I successfully finished the mission thanks to their help. Are we at that point, that we can virtually trust no one in EVE? Flame me à I know that it's a cold harsh world out there in space divided into "friends or foes", especially in 0.0, but this incident just made me think of my time, when I started playing EVE a little more than two years ago, and I felt lucky that I have had many supportive pilots helping me around the first time. Just wanted to share a few of my thoughts with you. Thanks for reading!! All the best, Smak --------------------------------------- EVE-Places.com à the EVE-related link directory. Join now it's FREE!
Saori Rei Gallente Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:06:00 - [2] Other than alliance and corp members? Trust no one and pressume everyone is out to get you. Sad but true.
Tamia Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:07:00 - [3] Trusting strangers in EVE generally gets you killed, they were just being cautious. Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:07:00 - [4] Originally by: Smakz Are we at that point, that we can virtually trust no one in EVE? Flame me à I know that it's a cold harsh world out there in space divided into "friends or foes", especially in 0.0, but this incident just made me think of my time, when I started playing EVE a little more than two years ago, and I felt lucky that I have had many supportive pilots helping me around the first time. When I first started playing EVE, I was pretty naive and trusted people much more than I rightfully should have. Thankfully I never got burned in the process, but before long I knew that I needed to guard my trust very closely. As the eve community grows and newer players become older ones, you have more people that are quite cynical about their fellow players. Some of this cynicism is well-founded, and some of it isn't. I think it can vary a lot based on the individual, and since carebears and empire-dwellers are more frequently the targets of scams/suicide ganks/etc you will find them to be one of the most cynical groups, ironically enough. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Bulletproof Cupid SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Smakz I am aware of the fact, that if you are in a fleet, you can kill fleet members without Concord saving your a.s.s., but all I wanted was a helping hand. Did this change? you never used to be able to shoot gang members. ------------- Lost Without a Clue
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:08:00 - [6] In EVE trust have to be earned. And the best place to start is "at home". So my advice to you would be join a corporation, make friends and soon you hopefully will have people who you can ask nicely if they could help you out. EVE is a game which survives and breathes paranoia. But that also mean trust means something in EVE. Its something valuable which takes time to generate, but you can loose it in one second.
Swift Wind 6rasshopper Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:10:00 - [7] In a world this cold, does it suprise you? As a solo player for 2 years, I am one of the most paranoid people out there, and yes by default I will not trust anyone I don't already know (and most of them I don't trust either). Part of being successful in EvE is being able to CYA, and part of that is dismissing any possible scam or detrimental actions before they have the chance to affect you. That is the world, it will not change :)
Kristiana Lee Caldari Flying Fox Industries	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:10:00 - [8] Edited by: Kristiana Lee on 17/04/2008 15:11:02 You could have said that the person who responded with help could create the fleet. Of course, this might open you up to problems with scammers then, but at least any person genuinely wanting to help would know you were on the level.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:10:00 - [9] Originally by: Bulletproof Cupid Originally by: Smakz I am aware of the fact, that if you are in a fleet, you can kill fleet members without Concord saving your a.s.s., but all I wanted was a helping hand. Did this change? you never used to be able to shoot gang members. No it didn't, its not possible. People use alts that they've wardeced to get the entire gang flagged towards them so they can kill you in highsec.
Manfred Rickenbocker The Elliance Delta.Green	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:11:00 - [10] Search for a video called "Carebear Sorrows" and you will learn why people are reeeeeeally cautious who they gang up to mission run with.

Shemaul	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:14:00 - [11] Mum always used to tell me: "Don't trust strangers, don't even talk with them". I still thx her for her good advice, in real life as well as in EVE. Seriously: i can trust strangers in EVE if i get no harm. If a stranger ask me to sell them 5k scourge missiles in a station, no prob: i ope the trade win, i put missiles, he put money, we both accept. But in the cold, dark, outside space, where game mechanics don't protect you, it's better to use RL rules of life...
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Smakz Edited by: Smakz on 17/04/2008 15:03:48 stuzs simple solution.... join a player corp
Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Saori Rei Other than alliance and corp members? Trust no one and pressume everyone is out to get you. Sad but true. Oh noes!!! Opponents in a game!!!!!
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Smakz Are we at that point, that we can virtually trust no one in EVE? Correct. In fact we have always been at that point, it's just some people take a while to catch on. I has similar problems trying to sell bookmarks to my mission wrecks a while back. You just have to persevere until you can find ~~a sucker~~ someone who will take the risk.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:24:00 - [15] A random local can only hurt you by blowing up your ship and pod. The people you REALLY need to be wary of are your Corp leaders. Ya know, the people with the power to steal everything the entire Corp worked for years to get? But Trust people? Ha... no way.
Nur Vadenn Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Riho Originally by: Smakz Edited by: Smakz on 17/04/2008 15:03:48 stuzs simple solution.... join a player corp And what exactly makes the members of a player corporation more trust worthy? Especially when game mechanics make it easier for them to scam/kill/loot you and your belongings. Honestly there are more reasons to NOT trust members of a player corporation, especially the CEO and officers of a corporation. --- The Lurker
Tamia Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Nur Vadenn Originally by: Riho Originally by: Smakz Edited by: Smakz on 17/04/2008 15:03:48 stuzs simple solution.... join a player corp And what exactly makes the members of a player corporation more trust worthy? Especially when game mechanics make it easier for them to scam/kill/loot you and your belongings. Honestly there are more reasons to NOT trust members of a player corporation, especially the CEO and officers of a corporation. It depends on the corp, really. It pays to know as much about a corp as you can before you actually join it, or you can end up getting screwed over it. Based on personal experience, corp/alliance members tend to be more friendly and helpful than the random people I met in local. Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Bulletproof Cupid Originally by: Smakz I am aware of the fact, that if you are in a fleet, you can kill fleet members without Concord saving your a.s.s., but all I wanted was a helping hand. Did this change? you never used to be able to shoot gang members. No it didn't, its not possible. People use alts that they've wardeced to get the entire gang flagged towards them so they can kill you in highsec. Actually, it did change at some time as you could fire on gangmembers (fleets didn't exist back then) without concord interfering a long time ago. This was changed at some point, I think everyone understands why . At this moment by default it's inded the case that you cannot shoot on fleetmembers unless you use the lofty trick.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:58:00 - [19] I look at it this way, Trust is required in EvE, the questions are however who DO you trust and HOW much?
Cors It's A Trap	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:06:00 - [20] As horrible as it is, pretty much yes. Trust in eve is VERY hard to come by. I only trust 3 other people on my main completely. One has been with us for a year, one for two years, and the third has been gameing with me for 4 years. Trust in game is hard to come by. Very hard. Most of us have been burned many many times, trusting someone and finding out they're a spy/theif/whatever.

Dragons Talon	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:09:00 - [21] Quote: Are we at that point, that we can virtually trust no one in EVE? Change EVE to world and you have it summed up nicely. That being said I do help others when I'm feeling lucky and have yet to get shot for it (knock on wood), but I also keep a backup ship just in case S
Faife Blackrain Solutions Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:10:00 - [22] It's webs of trust. I play in solitude cause it's so small that everyone knows everyone. If someone is a trustworthy player, word gets out that they and their corp are blue. As soon as they break it, they and their corp are red and stay red. This at least makes it possible to help out-of-alliance members with stuff, though to be honest I still wouldn't bring my top mission ship to help a known blue, just in case...
Saori Rei Gallente Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:18:00 - [23] Originally by: Kale Kold Originally by: Saori Rei Other than alliance and corp members? Trust no one and pressume everyone is out to get you. Sad but true. Oh noes!!! Opponents in a game!!!!! Silly man intentionally misunderstanding what I posted :P It's all well and good that there are opponents in a PvP game, but for an MMO to breed such distrust amongst people like this can't be healthy for the game, especially amongst the newer members who need cooperation to survive missioning, ratting, etc.
Smakz Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:27:00 - [24] WHOA! ... not on for a couple of hours and there are a bunch of replies umm ... ok, very nice. --------------------------------------- EVE-Places.com à the EVE-related link directory. Join now it's FREE!
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:29:00 - [25] Well you can't really expect people to put their ships on the line for some John Doe. People trust each other all the time in eve, but not people they don't know.
Smakz Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:29:00 - [26] Originally by: Tamia Clant Trusting strangers in EVE generally gets you killed, they were just being cautious. Thx Tamia, yes I truly understand why they reacted, how they did. And many of them added, that it's not personal ... it's just they "got burned" in the past, as someone stated in this thread here. All the best, Smak --------------------------------------- EVE-Places.com à the EVE-related link directory. Join now it's FREE!
Smakz Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:38:00 - [27] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker In EVE trust have to be earned. And the best place to start is "at home". So my advice to you would be join a corporation, make friends and soon you hopefully will have people who you can ask nicely if they could help you out. EVE is a game which survives and breathes paranoia. But that also mean trust means something in EVE. Its something valuable which takes time to generate, but you can loose it in one second. Dude, you are absolutely right! I am with a great corp roaming in PureBlind, this is my alt I'm posting with (and you might guess, which char is my main pointstosig). This is the 3rd corp I've been with (not adding the NPCs) and what I've learned so far is, that the only ones you have out there are your wingmen. These peeps help you out ... if you're in the right Corp. I agree with you, that trust is something valubale and easy to lose, but fortunately so far no one has turned me in by now knockknock All the best, Smak
Smakz Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Kristiana Lee Edited by: Kristiana Lee on 17/04/2008 15:11:02 You could have said that the person who responded with help could create the fleet. Of course, this might open you up to problems with scammers then, but at least any person genuinely wanting to help would know you were on the level. Kristiana, ya true. Haven't thought of that, but that probably would have proven, that I'm not trying to scam people. Something I'll try next time ... and hopefully not being scammed All the best, Smak
Van'Klomp The Legendary Fleet	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:53:00 - [29] Never been in this situation before, but I have helped others in missions. Simple solution is offer to let whoever is helping you create the fleet. This opens you up to much more danger than them, but trust will be more forthcoming. For me, trust is something to be earned. Show you are willing to take steps to earn trust and you'll get on with folks fine.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.17 17:03:00 - [30] Edited by: Avon on 17/04/2008 17:07:59 I'm still wondering how the OP failed to finish the mission tbh. Leave Rachen until last, dock, fit bcu's, kill Rachen. He isn't that tough, even in a drake. *Oh, as to the trust question .. don't. Where would the fun be if everyone could be taken at face value? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure

RainbowRandolph Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.17 17:17:00 - [31] I make Josef Stalin look cuudly and naive.
Smakz Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.17 17:21:00 - [32] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 17/04/2008 17:07:59 I'm still wondering how the OP failed to finish the mission tbh. Leave Rachen until last, dock, fit bcu's, kill Rachen. He isn't that tough, even in a drake. Oh, as to the trust question .. don't. Where would the fun be if everyone could be taken at face value? Ya, next time I will fit those lil BCUs ... only fitted one, tho Gawd, I'm such lousy mission runner All the best, Smak --------------------------------------- EVE-Places.com à the EVE-related link directory. Join now* it's FREE!
Siresa Talesi Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.17 17:59:00 - [33] Is trust optional? Yes. So is success. "Space is filled with countless hours of boredom...punctuated by moments of abject terror." - Capn. James T. Kirk, Starfleet Academy
Balen Organa Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.17 18:23:00 - [34] Trust no-one. Maybe your alliance or corp members but even then, I say in this type of game in general dont trust a soul. Nowhere is safe and griefing is not only allowed its rewarded. In seriousness, I think people are still generally good natured and in the end people did help you. I dont know is there an LFG/LFP chat channel in this game?
Countess NotFarOut2	Posted - 2008.04.17 18:23:00 - [35] Hmm, a lot of untrysting ppl in this thread, and maybe they are right. However, let me tell you a bit about my experience. Long while ago I lived mostly in losec; had a nice system as homebase and did mining & rat-hunting. I enjoyed myself, was/am a solo player and ofcourse member of a NPC Corp. Some other ppl lived in that system too and over time, just by chance, I learned not every1 is a murderous rascal trying to kill at every opportunity. We helped each other out: helping a miner to kill rats, selling/giving some1 a badly needede piece of equipment, money or even whole ships. Occasionally some human pie-rats invaded the system. Usually the inhabitants kept low and the pie-rats disappeared. Sometimes the pie-rats stayed, and guess what? The inhabitants banded together and attacked the pie-rats, many times chased them away. So can you trust? I'm just very careful, but give a helping hand occasionally. Recently I did some probing for a complete stranger in losec. Lost my COVOPS because I was not paying attention; he repayed my loss as promised... I have lost ships because of misplaced trust, not a big deal, although I am far from my first billion. Its not a big deal. After all, its just a game, and I refuse to be a paranoia miser. But to each her own, ofcourse.
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.04.17 18:29:00 - [36] Originally by: Avon Leave Rachen until last, dock, fit bcu's, kill Rachen. Rachen tanks like 500dps. You'll need HAMs to kill him with a drake, and closing range will be a *****. Even then you'll be barely tipping his tank and he'll probly regen it all back when you reload. I've only been able to kill him with a pre-nerf/boost torp raven and a shieldtanked 350mm+Ogres domi. With like 700-800dps though he from the domi he went down in like 3-4mins though, so not too bad. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus	Posted - 2008.04.17 18:38:00 - [37] Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Avon Leave Rachen until last, dock, fit bcu's, kill Rachen. Rachen tanks like 500dps. You'll need HAMs to kill him with a drake, and closing range will be a *****. Even then you'll be barely tipping his tank and he'll probly regen it all back when you reload. I've only been able to kill him with a pre-nerf/boost torp raven and a shieldtanked 350mm+Ogres domi. With like 700-800dps though he from the domi he went down in like 3-4mins though, so not too bad. I love Rachen Mysuna. I dock up the Dominix and see how small of a ship I can paste him in, then laugh at the low-skilled Cruise Ravens that can't break him. Wasps, btw, are FAR better on Rachen than Ogres (his thermal resist is 80% or something stupid high like that). Seriously, try him in a gank-fitted Vexor. He's easy to tank with 2 Kinetic resists, and Blasters+Drones will turn him into goo quickly. I wonder if its possible to kill Rachen with an AF. . . Ishkur might pull it off. Anyway, on topic with the OP. . . You have to trust people in Eve to get anywhere. You cannot trust people in Eve. This is what makes Eve hard, and what makes it engrossing. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.17 18:49:00 - [38] Originally by: Corwain Rachen tanks like 500dps. You'll need HAMs to kill him with a drake, and closing range will be a *****. It's more like 135 DPS peak, and so with his 50% resist you only need to be doing about 300 dps to take him down. Main issue is I guess the defender missiles which screw over any missile boat not using torps, and that the typical lvl 4 Drake setup has crap DPS as it is. Anyway, back to the OP. #1 rule of EVE: Don't trust anyone. Because if you do, you will regret it eventually. Even "good people" get bored and screw over their friends in game.
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.17 18:57:00 - [39] meet and talk to the people in your corp, dont sit in noob corps for too long, trust no one, why would you take any chance?
Caliburn VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas	Posted - 2008.04.17 19:00:00 - [40] oOOo an easy question,is trust optional YES.

Jaco Matari Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.04.17 19:07:00 - [41] My trust of random people in EVE is inversely proportional to the amount of isk I stand to lose when they inevitably end up screwing me over. Honestly there are a few people I trust from outside of corp but most are either people that I was corpmates with, or people I have hunted with.
Maxpie Cross Roads Ouroboros Cross Combine	Posted - 2008.04.17 19:13:00 - [42] Sadly, the fleet mechanics are designed so as to discourage interaction with others despite the fact that Eve is supposed to be an mmorpg. So nobody trusts anybody much, though they may trust somewhat people in their corp or alliance. Really, the entire experience of meeting people in Eve leaves much to be desired and could be greatly improved.
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.04.17 21:47:00 - [43] Originally by: Wet Ferret It's more like 135 DPS peak, and so with his 50% resist you only need to be doing about 300 dps to take him down. Main issue is I guess the defender missiles which screw over any missile boat not using torps, and that the typical lvl 4 Drake setup has crap DPS as it is. Hmm, well I always use thermal drones in mish as 99% of the time the higher damage mod makes them superior despite the damage type. Guess not so in this case. Even so, the bastard regens like 1/8 of his shields every 10-20secs or so, I have a hard time believing it's 300dps...maybe like 350-400dps. It is true however that I can take him to like half shields with a cruise raven, but reloading takes to long and he gets like 2-3 rep cycles in before I'm firing again. Domi generally works like a charm though since if you chase him he runs in a strait line. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.17 21:54:00 - [44] Edited by: Patch86 on 17/04/2008 21:54:04 You live in a busy city. You're doing some washing up when crunch a pipe bursts and you've got water gushing all over your floor. You take a look and realise that the only way you're going to stop the torrent of water is to grip this bit and twist that bit at the same time as turning that thing over there. You can't do it without an extra set of hands. Do you stick your head out the window to the busy street and call for help? Would you open your door and let just anybody who volunteers to come in to your house and help you out, even though you don't know them from Adam? Are we at that point, that we can virtually trust no one in RL? ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.17 21:55:00 - [45] Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Wet Ferret It's more like 135 DPS peak, and so with his 50% resist you only need to be doing about 300 dps to take him down. Main issue is I guess the defender missiles which screw over any missile boat not using torps, and that the typical lvl 4 Drake setup has crap DPS as it is. Hmm, well I always use thermal drones in mish as 99% of the time the higher damage mod makes them superior despite the damage type. Guess not so in this case. Even so, the bastard regens like 1/8 of his shields every 10-20secs or so, I have a hard time believing it's 300dps...maybe like 350-400dps. It is true however that I can take him to like half shields with a cruise raven, but reloading takes to long and he gets like 2-3 rep cycles in before I'm firing again. Domi generally works like a charm though since if you chase him he runs in a strait line. Did the math for another thread that asked basically the same thing. Rachen M. has roughly 7k shield HP with 50% kinetic (lowest) resist, boosts 1k shield every 10 seconds at a 75% chance of boost/nonboost (so 75 hp/sec on average) and has a peak shield regen close to 35 hp/sec, on top of a 25% base defender launch chance. Assuming DPS is coming from missiles exclusively, you need roughly 293 kinetic DPS just to barely break even "on average" at medium range (25% defencer chance). Solutions include: a) getting "under the defenders" (closer than 5 km or thereabouts), in which case defenders no longer launch b) using drones or guns (which are not affected by defenders) to supplement missile damage at range c) raw firepower (faction ammo, more BCUs, etc) to compensate 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.04.17 22:03:00 - [46] Originally by: Smakz Are we at that point, that we can virtually trust no one in EVE? Player Guide says: TREAT EVERYONE AS HOSTILE unless you know otherwise, i.e. if you don't know someone as a friend or acquaintance assume they are planning to kill you and watch them at all times.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.17 22:06:00 - [47] Originally by: Smakz Edited by: Smakz on 17/04/2008 15:03:48 edit: typos Hi there, yesterday I experienced something curious: To get my standings up (to 8.0 for creating JCs) I was missioning Lvl4's in the Kaka-Laka ..ermà Kakakela area yesterday. One mission ("Vengeance") brought me two jumps away to Umokka, where the mission had to be completed. I went through the first two stages easily with my Drake, and altho the BSs had a strongheaded tank, I managed to kill them using loads of Navy Scourges to bring 'em down. (Ya, I know àwill use my Raven and torps next time ) Anyways, in the last stage in which to kill "Rachen Mysina" (or however that dude is called), he just had a shield regen rate, that easily compensated my damage. I was totally stuck in this mission looksathisraven. I didn't want to cancel the mission, so I naively asked in Local, as there were many pilots chitchating and smacking each other in a humorous way, if there's anyone who could help me out. Told them, that I wasn't doing enough damage, regen rate was too high, and that I needed help. So, what happened next, really made me perplex à and actually a little sad: Soon many of them where all over me in Local, telling me, that it was a trick, and that I was trying to scam people to get easy kills and stuff like that. I am aware of the fact, that if you are in a fleet, you can kill fleet members without Concord saving your a.s.s., but all I wanted was a helping hand. After a couple of minutes of discussion, there was a fellow countryman, who helped me with his Rokh and later another pilot joined to help us in webbing Rachen, so I successfully finished the mission thanks to their help. Are we at that point, that we can virtually trust no one in EVE? Flame me à I know that it's a cold harsh world out there in space divided into "friends or foes", especially in 0.0, but this incident just made me think of my time, when I started playing EVE a little more than two years ago, and I felt lucky that I have had many supportive pilots helping me around the first time. Just wanted to share a few of my thoughts with you. Thanks for reading!! All the best, Smak If some random stranger wanted to know where you, your wife and children were, what car you drove, it's license plate number and access to your satnav unit to give you directions where to go next, would you let him? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.17 22:09:00 - [48] Originally by: Saori Rei Originally by: Kale Kold Originally by: Saori Rei Other than alliance and corp members? Trust no one and pressume everyone is out to get you. Sad but true. Oh noes!!! Opponents in a game!!!!! Silly man intentionally misunderstanding what I posted :P It's all well and good that there are opponents in a PvP game, but for an MMO to breed such distrust amongst people like this can't be healthy for the game, especially amongst the newer members who need cooperation to survive missioning, ratting, etc. The price of freedom is that some will use it for selfish ends. You say that's unhealthy; I say I prefer freedom. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.18 06:16:00 - [49] Originally by: Corwain Hmm, well I always use thermal drones in mish as 99% of the time the higher damage mod makes them superior despite the damage type. Guess not so in this case. 99% is not quite right. They are really only better vs EM vulnerable rats (because Therm is their 2nd lowest resist and EM drones have a low dmg modifier). You will find that Kinetic drones are superior vs anything that is naturally vulnerable to Kinetic (like Serpentis, Guristas, Mordus etc), and even explosive drones are ever so slightly better at killing Angels. That is, of course, assuming you have equal specialization skills.
Siriyana Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2008.04.18 06:29:00 - [50] Trust is optional in EVE. In fact, trust is quite deadly. And when you have good trust between both parties, it can work out, but most of the time it's a scam. If you need help in a mission, do NOT gang with the other person. There is absolutely NO reason to do this, the bonuses aren't worth the risk. What you should do: Find a willing party to assist you. Explain to them that you are not going to gang with them so they can't gank you and you can't gank them. Instead, make a copy of your mission bookmark. Give it to them. You are now both fully capable of warping into the mission without having to gang one another. Problem solved. Don't do this in low-sec though, as someone could give you a bookmark that takes you straight to a POS that will blow you up. ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group ACSG Open For Recruitment (AU/AsiaPac/Late Night PST)

Smakz Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.18 06:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Jurgen Cartis Originally by: Corwain You have to trust people in Eve to get anywhere. You cannot trust people in Eve. This is what makes Eve hard, and what makes it engrossing. Jurgen, I think you summed it up by a great way and I totally agree! All the best, Smak --------------------------------------- EVE-Places.com à the EVE-related link directory. Join now it's FREE!
DORIAN GRACE	Posted - 2008.04.18 06:48:00 - [52] Trust comes down to individual relationships. Case in point, my goal is to earn everyone's trust in EVE. And to show how trustworthy I am anyone, and I mean anyone can send me 10 million isk and i will immediately return it. We will be friends forever, plenty of trust to go around..............
Smakz Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.18 06:49:00 - [53] Originally by: Jaco Matari My trust of random people in EVE is inversely proportional to the amount of isk I stand to lose when they inevitably end up screwing me over. Ehm, WHAT? readsagain Quote: Honestly there are a few people I trust from outside of corp but most are either people that I was corpmates with, or people I have hunted with. Yes, there a couple of dudes which I have come to know over the last two years. Typically these are the type of people you see from time to time and have done something together. They receive "some type of trusting" because you know them a while. All the best, Smak --------------------------------------- EVE-Places.com à the EVE-related link directory. Join now it's FREE!

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.04.18 06:53:00 - [54] Originally by: DORIAN GRACE Trust comes down to individual relationships. Case in point, my goal is to earn everyone's trust in EVE. And to show how trustworthy I am anyone, and I mean anyone can send me 10 million isk and i will immediately return it. We will be friends forever, plenty of trust to go around.............. lol epic. I wish you the best of luck in your quest. Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar?

Smakz Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.18 06:56:00 - [55] Originally by: Malcanis If some random stranger wanted to know where you, your wife and children were, what car you drove, it's license plate number and access to your satnav unit to give you directions where to go next, would you let him? Thx Malcanis, but don't you think you are comparing two totally different things here? Many of the peeps here in this thread were talking about "Trust in EVE", à not necessarily in RL. That's a totally different story. But I do get your point, bro. To answer your question, of course, I wouldn't give out any of the above information to anyone, also not those I'm in a corp or alliance with and I "trust". I keep away RL issues. This is a game and what ever happens in here, has nothing to do with RL events, and viceversa. All the best, Smak
Smakz Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.18 07:05:00 - [56] Originally by: Siriyana Trust is optional in EVE. In fact, trust is quite deadly. And when you have good trust between both parties, it can work out, but most of the time it's a scam. If you need help in a mission, do NOT gang with the other person. There is absolutely NO reason to do this, the bonuses aren't worth the risk. What you should do: Find a willing party to assist you. Explain to them that you are not going to gang with them so they can't gank you and you can't gank them. Instead, make a copy of your mission bookmark. Give it to them. You are now both fully capable of warping into the mission without having to gang one another. Problem solved. Don't do this in low-sec though, as someone could give you a bookmark that takes you straight to a POS that will blow you up. Hi Siriyana, couldn't agree more with you and the practical solution with the bookmark thingy you have provided me with is greatly appreciated! Will try next time. Thanx All the best, Smak --------------------------------------- EVE-Places.com à the EVE-related link directory. Join now it's FREE!
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.18 07:32:00 - [57] I think "trust no one" is a little overboard. Sure you can trust some ppl, but you have to be cautious and get to know someone first. Don't trust everyone, at the same time don't DIStrust everyone. The problem with Eve I find is that people have a hard time understanding where the game starts and where it ends. Some people think if you befriend someone for months and then rob them thats "just playing the game." In a way I would not even call Eve a "game." Eve is just an operating system where "the game" takes place. Some people are actually playing "Eve", others are playing "the game" inside of the Eve environment, where "the game" could be anything, it could be "Something Awful" or "subterfuge online" or "how many people can I grief today." "Trust" starts when you figure out what game the other person is playing. Are they playing Eve Online? Or are they playing a different game using Eve as the backdrop? If they're playing Eve you can almost always trust them. If they're playing another game within Eve, then no you can't.
Sylthi Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2008.04.18 08:32:00 - [58] I have been playing Eve since Beta, in one form or another. In all of that time I can count on one hand how many players I can say I have "trusted". And you know what? Each and every one of those players have been my friends irl for YEARS before Eve. I have never "trusted" anyone else in Eve, and I never will. This methodology has kept me alive and safe (for the most part) in Eve; and has made me very wealthy (in isk). I see no reason to change. Honestly, I don't understand the op's "Have we come to this?" attitude. Eve has always been a dark, cutthroat, universe where people will lie, cheat, steal, and kill for a couple of isk or the shear pleasure of doing it. I don't release evil like that into the game; but MOST of the players in Eve do (at one point or another in the life of their characters.) Eve is NOT a game for toddlers. Eve is NOT safe. People will swear at you, lie to you, cheat you, steal from you, and kill you. But, here is the important part: People will do all of these things to you IF YOU LET THEM. Eve is dark, cold, and ruthless; just like the real world. Deal with it, or go play Second Life...... Like I said, I don't understand the "Have we come to this?" attitude. Come to what? Eve has ALWAYS been this way.
Smakz Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.18 08:48:00 - [59] Edited by: Smakz on 18/04/2008 08:49:48 edit: typos Originally by: Sylthi Like I said, I don't understand the "Have we come to this?" attitude. Come to what? Eve has ALWAYS been this way. Hiya Silthi, don't get me wrong, the incident just made me think about "Trust" in general. And as mentioned, I have never been scammed in one way or the other knockonwood, and I had some experienced and nice pilots who taught me well when I was only 20 days old or so, and supported me with everything they had. As a noob they took me to 0.0 right away and protected me with all they had while showing me around. I "trusted" them and joined their corp later. It seemed sort of "naturally" then, but thinking of it now I realise, that I was just lucky and the "real" EVE universe is largely different. Sad but true I got your point tho. All the best, Smak PS: An NO I won't play SL . --------------------------------------- EVE-Places.com à the EVE-related link directory. Join now it's FREE!
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.18 08:59:00 - [60] It's because you're not in a corp. Corporations are there to function as groups of people that can trust and help eachother. The corp tag is what assures you the guy in your gang can be trusted. There is no shortage of good player corporations in Eve you can join so as to have people to help out en be helped out by. In short, get out of the NPC corp already. [center] Old blog

Sylthi Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:10:00 - [61] Edited by: Sylthi on 18/04/2008 09:14:32 Smakz: I wasn't directing the SL comment to you specifically, so no offense there. Besides, I looked over my sister's shoulder once while she was playing SL. I felt nausiated in the first 20 seconds..... I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But, I have to second what you already know. Yeah, having people take you under their wing that early in your career, you got LUCKY. Just because I have never trusted that many people, doesn't mean I have never been ripped off. Example: Back when I first started playing the game, corp officers could not only LOOK in your personal hangars that were at stations where they had offices; they could put stuff in them and take stuff out too. My first 90 days in game was dutifully dedicated to a corp that recruited me, and a group of guys, whom I THOUGHT were my friends. After those 90 days, and after they convinced me to invest most of my money in new shinny ships that I could barely fly, what do you think happened? Yep. One fine morning I logged in to find all of my stuff gone and having been kicked out of the corp. After 90 days of play, my net worth was a Rifter that my character was in (they couldn't take a ship I had equiped) and roughly 750k isk. In retrospect, I truly do thank them rather than curse them. They taught me an invaulable lesson about Eve, and life in general, for that matter. One that I have never forgotten. So yes, you got lucky. But, don't depend on it. Stay alert, and don't LET people screw you over. Be smart. Be paranoid. Be wealthy. Be Eve. Cheers. * *
Smakalicious Caldari Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:12:00 - [62] Originally by: Rod Blaine It's because you're not in a corp. Corporations are there to function as groups of people that can trust and help eachother. The corp tag is what assures you the guy in your gang can be trusted. There is no shortage of good player corporations in Eve you can join so as to have people to help out en be helped out by. In short, get out of the NPC corp already. Ok, I'll post with my main now à (posted with my alt 'cause I like Gallente b.o.o.b.s ) I have spent my time almost entirely in Corporations, all in 0.0. Yes, the help was there à and I guess will always be. But it just seems, that the will to help vanishes, if your not blue or in the same corp. All the best, Smak --------------------------------------- Join the ΞνΞ Places.com Link Competition and win a 90 day GTC
Smakalicious Caldari Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:30:00 - [63] Originally by: Sylthi Example: Back when I first started playing the game, corp officers could not only LOOK in your personal hangars that were at stations where they had offices; they could put stuff in them and take stuff out too. My first 90 days in game was dutifully dedicated to a corp that recruited me, and a group of guys, whom I THOUGHT were my friends. After those 90 days, and after they convinced me to invest most of my money in new shinny ships that I could barely fly, what do you think happened? Yep. One fine morning I logged in to find all of my stuff gone and having been kicked out of the corp. After 90 days of play, my net worth was a Rifter that my character was in (they could take a ship I had equiped) and roughly 750k isk. In retrospect, I truly do thank them rather than curse them. They taught me an invaulable lesson about Eve, and life in general, for that matter. One that I have never forgotten. So yes, you got lucky. But, don't depend on it. Stay alert, and don't LET people screw you over. Be smart. Be paranoid. Be wealthy. Be Eve. Hi Sylthi, sorry for that, bro. Glad, that this never happened to me. (BTW: It still possible that CEOs or directors can take stuff from the personal hangars?? paranoid) You see, perhaps I'm just that (oldfashioned) type guy, that keeps believing in the good of people, instead of being a bit more sceptical towards strangers. Dunno, but after reading the many responses so far, I will certainly change may way of looking at things ... at least a little. Fly safe, my friend. All the best, Smak PS: SecondLife à bad idea shrugs --------------------------------------- Join the ΞνΞ Places.com Link Competition and win a 90 day GTC
Sylthi Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:43:00 - [64] Originally by: Smakalicious (BTW: It still possible that CEOs or directors can take stuff from the personal hangars?? paranoid) Look in? Yes. Take from? No. Thank the gods. The "take from" got fixed back in late 2004, if memory serves. But, your paranoia is GOOD. You're learning. Let that feeling take root and grow. Originally by: Smakalicious You see, perhaps I'm just that (oldfashioned) type guy, that keeps believing in the good of people, instead of being a bit more sceptical towards strangers. Don't get me wrong. You're an optomist. I like optomists. They make great customers. Opens display case of freshly minted T2 mods and ships for sale. Originally by: Smakalicious Dunno, but after reading the many responses so far, I will certainly change may way of looking at things ... at least a little. Glad to have been of help, if any..... Cheers. * *
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:43:00 - [65] Knowing game mechanics is the best thing you can do. If someone wants you to help them with a mission, do yourself a favour and make the gang yourself. If they suddenly don't want to do the mission anymore, they were trying to gank you. If they ask you to invite their 'hauler alt', ask who it is and check any wars they're in. If they're not at war - It's safe. Them trusting you isn't important since they're the ones who approached you in the first place ...
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.04.18 10:25:00 - [66] The people who yelled at you for being a scammer are just bitter jerks. This is to be expected in highsec , where a good part of warfare revolves around deception ; and they have next to zero risk smacking people whenever they feel like it (especially NPC corpers) The lofty claimed countless victims , but that doesn't mean you can't cooperate with strangers safely (more or less) as long as the party offering / requesting assistance isn't creating the gang. In your case , it is very unlikely a highsec pirate would bother to trap your drake. What really matters is to make trust irrelevant , or minimize its use. Less opportunities means less temptations. Aura says one important thing in the tutorial - most people are almost honest. It means they are reliable 90% of the time but might be swayed by huge gain (billions in corp wallet , T2 BPOs , faction stuff) It is your responsibility to prevent their greedy side from showing. It is very rare to see a corpmate kill another for no reason , they'd rather forgo their own safety and sacrifice their ships to rescue each other - but when you dump piles of shiny stuff in plain sight , you can't expect everyone in corp to stoically ignore it.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.18 10:39:00 - [67] Originally by: Stakhanov The people who yelled at you for being a scammer are just bitter jerks. This is to be expected in highsec , where a good part of warfare revolves around deception ; and they have next to zero risk smacking people whenever they feel like it (especially NPC corpers) The lofty claimed countless victims , but that doesn't mean you can't cooperate with strangers safely (more or less) as long as the party offering / requesting assistance isn't creating the gang. In your case , it is very unlikely a highsec pirate would bother to trap your drake. What really matters is to make trust irrelevant , or minimize its use. Less opportunities means less temptations. Aura says one important thing in the tutorial - most people are almost honest. It means they are reliable 90% of the time but might be swayed by huge gain (billions in corp wallet , T2 BPOs , faction stuff) It is your responsibility to prevent their greedy side from showing. It is very rare to see a corpmate kill another for no reason , they'd rather forgo their own safety and sacrifice their ships to rescue each other - but when you dump piles of shiny stuff in plain sight , you can't expect everyone in corp to stoically ignore it. In other words: trust people, but don't trust them more than you need to.
Drizit Amarr FREEDOM FIRST Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:20:00 - [68] It's a cold harsh fact that in Eve, you have to earn trust. Anyone who gives their trust blindly is a fool and will soon learn to be wary of others in the game. After a couple of years in the game, you will soon learn that sometimes, you can't even trust yourself. -- Freighters need a tank
DORIAN GRACE	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:22:00 - [69] Originally by: DORIAN GRACE Trust comes down to individual relationships. Case in point, my goal is to earn everyone's trust in EVE. And to show how trustworthy I am anyone, and I mean anyone can send me 10 million isk and i will immediately return it. We will be friends forever, plenty of trust to go around.............. My offer still stand, address book filling up quickly though!
Smakalicious Caldari Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:32:00 - [70] Originally by: Sylthi But, your paranoia is GOOD. You're learning. Let that feeling take root and grow. I believe it will take a little while, but I'm very confident, I will survive Quote: Don't get me wrong. You're an optomist. I like optomists. They make great customers. Opens display case of freshly minted T2 mods and ships for sale. Hehe, clever Seriously, it makes me feel good to be an optimist in this regard, but I'm aware that this may be hurting me someday in one way or the other. Quote: Glad to have been of help, if any..... Well, how's that Apple slogan: Think different. You, and many others in this thread, helped me to develop my personal opinion widened my view on many things. Thanks for that. All the best, Smak --------------------------------------- Join the ΞνΞ Places.com Link Competition and win a 90 day GTC

TheBlueMonkey Gallente BlueBlock	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:52:00 - [71] I get precisely the same thing when I offer salvage rights in local, the responce I get is somewhere between indignance and "IT'S TEH TRAPZ!!!". Also, possibly worth noting, a chum recently found out that when he and I were in a fleet (not in the same corp) and he acidently fired a shot on me in the mission. Concord turned up rather promptly.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.18 15:47:00 - [72] Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Avon Leave Rachen until last, dock, fit bcu's, kill Rachen. Rachen tanks like 500dps. You'll need HAMs to kill him with a drake, and closing range will be a *****. Even then you'll be barely tipping his tank and he'll probly regen it all back when you reload. I've only been able to kill him with a pre-nerf/boost torp raven and a shieldtanked 350mm+Ogres domi. With like 700-800dps though he from the domi he went down in like 3-4mins though, so not too bad. Killed him last night in a Drake with heavy launchers (CN Scourge), 3 light TII drones (misplaced the other 2), and 1 bcu. 3 Reloads. Total mission used less than 3000 missiles all together. I can't understand why you struggle so much? Maybe you don't chase him until he turns around and closes distance? He dies real fast then.
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Wrath.	Posted - 2008.04.18 15:49:00 - [73] I have not read all the replys to this, as I got to one line in the OP and had to respond: Quote: Are we at that point, that we can virtually trust no one in EVE? This is stated like it is something new... Trust has always been the most valuable and scarce commodity in EVE, this is nothing new.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar NightCrew	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:27:00 - [74] Originally by: Stakhanov It is very rare to see a corpmate kill another for no reason I killed a corp mate once (his ship and pod). I got real tired of his "Your Mom" jokes. I felt real good after that. --------------------------------------------- Love is having a second account with a cov ops pilot
Asuka Smith Gallente StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:35:00 - [75] Trust no one. Even corp members I have to get to know first.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.04.19 16:15:00 - [76] Originally by: Smakz Edited by: Smakz on 17/04/2008 15:03:48 edit: typos Hi there, yesterday I experienced something curious: To get my standings up (to 8.0 for creating JCs) I was missioning Lvl4's in the Kaka-Laka ..ermà Kakakela area yesterday. One mission ("Vengeance") brought me two jumps away to Umokka, where the mission had to be completed. I went through the first two stages easily with my Drake, and altho the BSs had a strongheaded tank, I managed to kill them using loads of Navy Scourges to bring 'em down. (Ya, I know àwill use my Raven and torps next time ) Anyways, in the last stage in which to kill "Rachen Mysina" (or however that dude is called), he just had a shield regen rate, that easily compensated my damage. I was totally stuck in this mission looksathisraven. I didn't want to cancel the mission, so I naively asked in Local, as there were many pilots chitchating and smacking each other in a humorous way, if there's anyone who could help me out. Told them, that I wasn't doing enough damage, regen rate was too high, and that I needed help. So, what happened next, really made me perplex à and actually a little sad: Soon many of them where all over me in Local, telling me, that it was a trick, and that I was trying to scam people to get easy kills and stuff like that. I am aware of the fact, that if you are in a fleet, you can kill fleet members without Concord saving your a.s.s., but all I wanted was a helping hand. After a couple of minutes of discussion, there was a fellow countryman, who helped me with his Rokh and later another pilot joined to help us in webbing Rachen, so I successfully finished the mission thanks to their help. Are we at that point, that we can virtually trust no one in EVE? Flame me à I know that it's a cold harsh world out there in space divided into "friends or foes", especially in 0.0, but this incident just made me think of my time, when I started playing EVE a little more than two years ago, and I felt lucky that I have had many supportive pilots helping me around the first time. Just wanted to share a few of my thoughts with you. Thanks for reading!! All the best, Smak the broken mechanics of fleeting will not be fixed because ccp claims they show the harsh nature of eve its really just a condoned exploit because we all know about the trick where you dont get a warning if someone joins the fleet after you did Trashed sig, Shark was here
Smakalicious Caldari Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.04.23 12:51:00 - [77] Originally by: Asuka Smith Trust no one. Even corp members I have to get to know first. Ok folks, we've spoken about trust in general long enough and many have made their points clear. Now, what is the worst betrayal of trust you have experienced in EVE? (I must admit, that I've never been scammed before and all corps I've been with treated me well.) All the best, Smak --------------------------------------- ΞνΞ-Places.com à the EVE-related link directory. Join now it's FREE!
Father Dibbles Self Aggrandisement Society	Posted - 2008.04.23 13:49:00 - [78] Never trust anyone but yourself, or people you actually know and trust in real life. Even then that is no given, but at least you have the opportunity to break their legs, bury them, then dig the body back up and make love to shame. (dig up your body-yagain, and make love to shammmmmmmmeee) 1 mill isk to the person that can name the song! May god save me, if it is right that he should do so...
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2008.04.23 13:56:00 - [79] Edited by: Garia666 on 23/04/2008 13:57:00 hehe over the years you make a special friend once in a while.. i have several people i would trust my titan with.. ( if i had one ) so yes its rare.. but you will find allot of people still out there :) Thing is eve can be a very harsh game once in a while ;)
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.04.23 13:58:00 - [80] I would have helped you. I would have joined fleet, entered warp and left the fleet again before coming out of warp. No sweat. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute

Smakalicious Caldari Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.04.23 14:29:00 - [81] Originally by: Jowen Datloran I would have helped you. I would have joined fleet, entered warp and left the fleet again before coming out of warp. No sweat. Yeah, nice idea! As someone said, if you know how the game works (game mechanics) it can make life a little easier. All the best, Smak --------------------------------------- ΞνΞ-Places.com à the EVE-related link directory. Join now it's FREE!
Radcjk Caldari Dark Star LTD Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.04.23 15:31:00 - [82] I don't even trust my corpmate and number 1 wingman in eve, and he's my real life brother. Every one else is just screwed.
Heknai Gallente COLD-Wing The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.04.23 17:02:00 - [83] Hell I trust people and even give noobs isk - i've been burned before and probably will in the future, but if you take a chance you might just make a really good friend or ally. Even though I hunt pirates, I've helped a few out here and there with intel and have since become good friends (as well as you can across the intarweb) or at the least, they don't shoot me. Imho and depending on your potential loss, it can be worth it. -hek --In times of strife and desperation, heroes are made of ordinary men...
Wasted Mind Gallente Syntech Research and Development	Posted - 2008.04.23 17:16:00 - [84] Edited by: Wasted Mind on 23/04/2008 17:17:32 Sadly, Yes we are at that point. Even if your in a player corp you aren't going to find any outside help on missions from most people. The freedom EvE brings to an MMO also comes at a cost, you will learn to never random group again. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow ect but at some point you will join a random lvl 4 group and get killed upon doing so. This is the way EvE works and why most new comers are not able to find a group at all (also why eve doesnt have alot of new players stay imo). All i can say is get used to it and join a player corp. A player corp often runs lvl 4 and 5 missions together so any help you need on one of your own is just a hollar away. Trusting people you do not know in this game will lead to your ship going pop at some point so most simply do not do it.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2008.04.25 12:37:00 - [85] If by trust you mean someone I could trust to give say, 5 billion isk (assuming I had it) then expect them to give it me back without a doubt, that makes possibly one person. Apart from that, their are a lot people you trust to a degree, but it takes a long time and lots of interaction to totally trust someone ingame you dont know IRL, and even then you should have your doubts. For one thing, your CEO should be someone you should be able to just about Totally Trust.


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