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When will they nerf ECM drones?

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Jin Entres Malevolent Intervention Reavers.	Posted - 2008.04.21 14:47:00 - [61] Make ECCM work with scripts? Script 1: +scan strength, Script 2: -duration. An ECCM that reduced jam duration (while activation delay would remain the same) would be a sensible counter to ECM. --- CEO
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.21 14:58:00 - [62] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Worthless points. ECM drones are used in solo and small engagements. Also mostly in low sec and high sec warfare. This means smartbombs and "friends" are not options most of the time. Not all ships have launchers to use FoF. -Falcons need a nerf -Light and Medium ECM drones need a nerf -Nano speed stacking needs a nerf -It has nothing to do with blobs. Nano's blob every single target they kill. The difference is that you can't counter a nano blob with anything except another nano blob. A normal blob is counterable by any group of ships that has enough firepower. These cheap types of game play need to go from eve. Sorry to say your points are rather worthless Lyria. Solo-small engagements - if you're not fit to counter ecm drones - then you deserve to lose. This game isn't just gank and tank online. You have to be prepared. If you compromise your dps with smartbombs - at least you saved yourself from ecm drones!!! You can't have it both ways! If FoF isn't possible - then warp to your fast ship with a disco ship - and again no lock necessary to drive off ecm ship. Hmm lets flame you back... Amar lasers need a damage nerf. Amar resistance tanks need a nerf. Amar Apocalypse weapon range needs to be nerfed. You know what? Making silly nerf wishes to annoy other people is FUN! Nerf Lyria! Back on topic. ECM allows for a DIVERSE gameplay - you have tactical options. It allows someone who isn't on par with your gank + tank skills to have a trick up their sleeve. The counters for ECM are there and EASILY implemented (I do it myself ALL the time). If you nerf ECM again, its just makes gank + tank setups more powerful. What type of fighting maximizes from that tactic? BLOBS When they nerf ECM and there are spider tanked gangs that you can't break - remember you killed a viable tactic that would counter that... Stop being short sighted and focusing on your gank + tank Amar philosophy Lyria, its getting old. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:17:00 - [63] Originally by: Omarvelous Stop being short sighted and focusing on your gank + tank Amar philosophy Lyria, its getting old. TANK AND GANK IS THE ONLY WAY! -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:20:00 - [64] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Omarvelous Stop being short sighted and focusing on your gank + tank Amar philosophy Lyria, its getting old. TANK AND GANK IS THE ONLY WAY! Glad to see a sense of humor in these threads once in a while! __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Hardtail Red Dawn Empire	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:25:00 - [65] This is stupid. Fit a smartbomb. Win
El'Tar Caldari Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:37:00 - [66] What about a ECCM module for Rigslots? Which isn't expensive Killboard
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:52:00 - [67] Originally by: Hardtail Win I like winning. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:56:00 - [68] Originally by: Everyone Dies Edited by: Everyone Dies on 21/04/2008 00:41:44 Originally by: arbalesttom Ecm boats are even more lame, nerf them before you nerf ecm drones ccp. QFMFT I've been in gangs where we had 5-7 BS permajammed by one FALCON! Some if not most were fitting ECCM. ECM need to be looked at, seriously. I doubt they were permajammed. The falcon pilot probably missed a few cycles, but the lock time of battleships was working in his favor. And I highly doubt they were able to jam that many ships through ECCM. Anecdotal evidence FTL. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:52:00 - [69] Here is the whole point to why ECM drones suck. I remeber the half a year before NOS got nerf. I also can go back and watch the pvp videos . It wasn't that NOS was op'd it was just to good module not to fit to your extra high slots. Now take ECM drones and normal ships drone bays. The real dps those drones add are kinda crap so everyone loads ecm drones. Thats my point alt #1234 can comment now that I can't fly ships. E-Peen pirate #5432 can tell me to EFT up.
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:00:00 - [70] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer -Falcons need a nerf -Light and Medium ECM drones need a nerf -Nano speed stacking needs a nerf Never knew i would agree with Lyria *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
El'Tar Caldari Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:09:00 - [71] OP Is right, either ECM drones are overpowered and should be nerfed, or the other ewar drones should be boosted. ________________________________________________ ME BEING JESUS ******* CHRIST IN MY BATTLEWAGON OF DOOM
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:10:00 - [72] Originally by: El'Tar OP Is right, either ECM drones are overpowered and should be nerfed, and the other ewar drones should be boosted. Thread repair $5 cheap cheap *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
El'Tar Caldari Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:11:00 - [73] Originally by: arbalesttom Originally by: El'Tar OP Is right, either ECM drones are overpowered and should be nerfed, and the other ewar drones should be boosted. Thread repair $5 cheap cheap In my defence, I shall state; no u ________________________________________________ ME BEING JESUS ******* CHRIST IN MY BATTLEWAGON OF DOOM
GateScout	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:47:00 - [74] Originally by: Everyone Dies I've been in gangs where we had 5-7 BS permajammed by one FALCON! Some if not most were fitting ECCM. ECM need to be looked at, seriously. Bullsh*t. You either misinterpreted the events or you're lying. Do the math before responding. Look at the specific odds of jamming 7 battleships for 60 seconds at the same time. I'll make it simple: you can assume the falcon pilot had the correct racial jammers for each BS.
Sionide Minmatar THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:53:00 - [75] Yeah falcons are a bit stupid at the moment. There isn't anything as valuable as a falcon in small->med gangs atm. Not biased, my alt is 20 mil sp caldari pilot that can fly the falcon; as well as there are many corp members that fly it. They need to either: 1) increase the fitting requirements for jammers (so only like 4 max can be fitted) 2) have a different ratio for jammed target vs jammer (jammer reuse being much, much longer) 3) not "jam" per se but act like distant ecm burst and just break lock. 4) decrease range so they actually have to be in target range like the rest of ecm ships (i.e. max 40-50 km range unoverloaded) === In Eve, never bring a knife to a knife fight.
GateScout	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:15:00 - [76] Originally by: Sionide 1) increase the fitting requirements for jammers (so only like 4 max can be fitted) 2) have a different ratio for jammed target vs jammer (jammer reuse being much, much longer) 3) not "jam" per se but act like distant ecm burst and just break lock. 4) decrease range so they actually have to be in target range like the rest of ecm ships (i.e. max 40-50 km range unoverloaded) Which would make the ship totally pointless. ...and no one would fly it. It has no tank. It does zero DPS. It cannot tackle. You cannot nano it for speed. It's only use is in gang... You want to make it totally ineffective or bring it into range of insta-popping. As you should know, countering a falcon is simple...and there are multiple ways to counter it. You just have to expect it.
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:19:00 - [77] Like I said I'm trying to explain why I think ECM drones have become the new NOS. Flying a ECM boat is totally different because you either choose to fly a DPS ship or a ECM ship with zero other utility.
El'Tar Caldari Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:34:00 - [78] Or when ships not specialized for ecm used to fit ECM, any one remember Nos + Ecm domi? ________________________________________________ ME BEING JESUS ******* CHRIST IN MY BATTLEWAGON OF DOOM
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:52:00 - [79] Edited by: General Coochie on 21/04/2008 19:55:07 Originally by: Corstaad Here is the whole point to why ECM drones suck. I remeber the half a year before NOS got nerf. I also can go back and watch the pvp videos . It wasn't that NOS was op'd it was just to good module not to fit to your extra high slots. Now take ECM drones and normal ships drone bays. The real dps those drones add are kinda crap so everyone loads ecm drones. Thats my point alt #1234 can comment now that I can't fly ships. E-Peen pirate #5432 can tell me to EFT up. In the case of the thorax depending on fitting you consider 30-45% more dps to be crap in all situations? Sorry but you are just pulling arguements out of your ass. Or are you saying that dps drones needs a boost? The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:02:00 - [80] Edited by: Corstaad on 21/04/2008 20:05:45 Sorry I'm not pulling stuff out of my arse. I'm actually playing the game not EFTing. You hate for me to mention this because your justified by EFT on why theres nothing wrong with them. Watch a small scale pvp video before the NoS nerf. You see almost every ship had little vampire trails coming off it. Now go to a active low sec system and do a scan for drones. Tell me what you find. 30% to 45% dmg isn't real damage do you understand that.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:04:00 - [81] Originally by: General Coochie Edited by: General Coochie on 21/04/2008 19:55:07 Originally by: Corstaad Here is the whole point to why ECM drones suck. I remeber the half a year before NOS got nerf. I also can go back and watch the pvp videos . It wasn't that NOS was op'd it was just to good module not to fit to your extra high slots. Now take ECM drones and normal ships drone bays. The real dps those drones add are kinda crap so everyone loads ecm drones. Thats my point alt #1234 can comment now that I can't fly ships. E-Peen pirate #5432 can tell me to EFT up. In the case of the thorax depending on fitting you consider 30-45% more dps to be crap in all situations? Sorry but you are just pulling arguements out of your ass. Or are you saying that dps drones needs a boost? I would say that the "normal" qualifier would preclude ships like the Thorax - it after all has an unusually large drone bay for a cruiser. And dps drones needing a boost? Perhaps but it would be best given in the form of hitpoints or speed versus outright damage. The real weakness of DPS drones is afterall the fact that your weapon systems are destructable.
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:20:00 - [82] Originally by: Corstaad Edited by: Corstaad on 21/04/2008 20:05:45 Sorry I'm not pulling stuff out of my arse. I'm actually playing the game not EFTing. You hate for me to mention this because your justified by EFT on why theres nothing wrong with them. Watch a small scale pvp video before the NoS nerf. You see almost every ship had little vampire trails coming off it. Now go to a active low sec system and do a scan for drones. Tell me what you find. 30% to 45% dmg isn't real damage do you understand that. How isn't it real damage? Its more real then any turret due to turrets tracking and falloff. It also works even if you are jammed. If you do 400dps with turrets you think turning down another 150 is always worse then using ECM drones? Its not if you have someone else dedicated to jamming in you gang! You can claim EFT numbers have no relevance as a lot of ppl pull numbers out of their arse and its the a general opinion that EFT has no weight in "real PvP". But it does mate. Give me one good argument why EFT isn't relevant. I don't think you can. All your arguements are based on whinyness and don't bear any weight at all. The reason ppl use them in low sec is that they provide one very important thing that dps drones don't provide. The ability to disengage from a fight at the same time as it gives an dps taken, dps dealt ratio benefit. Well comparing rax turns both ways, it also has higher chance jamming with ECM drones. The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:37:00 - [83] corp mate tested his pilgrim against my ratting geddon other day. I had 5x light ecm drones with me, for situation where i get caught with my pants down. over the course of a 5 minute spar, I got a single jam on him. Had it been a real fight that was going the same way, this would have allowed me to warp out to safety. however, the pilgrim ignored my drones because it wasnt a real fight and we didnt want to pop each others drones. anectdotal evidence is anectdotal Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:43:00 - [84] ECMs are handy because: (1) They give you a option to disengage in a really bad situation (a very important thing) (2) They're cheap and fairly easy to skill into (3) They are extremely potent vs ships with small sensor str and significant gank power (think some AFs, HACs, stuff of that sort) Damage drones are handy because: (1) Certain ones offer abilities which give you special abilities (warrior IIs for shaking off interceptors). (2) DPS addition can mean more then ECM-ing the target, particularly if you're trying to overpower tanks in as little time as possible. (3) They deal damage even when you are ECM-ed (which can be extremely handy). (4) They can be used for counter-droning. On ships where drone damage is a important part of overall damage output, damage drones generally offer better overall results for winning the fight - while gank ships which have a paltry buffer tend to do somewhat better with ECMs. Also, vs bigger targets with high sensor str I generally prefer damage drones. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Sionide Minmatar THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:13:00 - [85] Originally by: GateScout Originally by: Sionide 1) increase the fitting requirements for jammers (so only like 4 max can be fitted) 2) have a different ratio for jammed target vs jammer (jammer reuse being much, much longer) 3) not "jam" per se but act like distant ecm burst and just break lock. 4) decrease range so they actually have to be in target range like the rest of ecm ships (i.e. max 40-50 km range unoverloaded) Which would make the ship totally pointless. ...and no one would fly it. Key word is "either." Not suggesting all of them or even two of the list be applied, but that something around those suggestions. And if you mean the counter is ECCM. Think about this, 6 BS all have to fit one module because of 1 ship. No, falcon isn't OP...</sarcasm> === In Eve, never bring a knife to a knife fight.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:59:00 - [86] Originally by: General Coochie Edited by: General Coochie on 21/04/2008 20:35:24 You can claim EFT numbers have no relevance as a lot of ppl pull numbers out of their arse and its the a general opinion that EFT has no weight in "real PvP". But it does mate. Give me one good argument why EFT isn't relevant. I don't think you can. All your arguements are based on whinyness and don't bear any weight at all. EFT carries a degree of weight in an argument. It will tell the story of a ship's inherit capabilities given a certain fitting. But we all know that's only part of the story. Sure a gank bs can pump out 1k or more damage a second but that damage is only useful in a very small radius. The ship's entire success or failure in combat will be based around how well the gank ship pilot can get his BS into range against a webbed target. Lots of arguments are given based on EFT generated stats but we all know EFT generated stats are rarely "realistic" in terms of actual capabilities in the hands of the average pilot of the ship. Thus, many EFT arguments are similar to high-school physics equations where you simply ignore those pesky realities and focus on the specific aspect of a situation you are attempting to measure. Arguments backed by EFT hold very little weight in reality as it simply displays the potential of a ship, and nothing more. Thre are dozens of factors that a pilot must manage in order to keep any ship in it's optimal engagement situation and these are generally more telling than any statistic printout.
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.21 22:27:00 - [87] Originally by: Corstaad Its was a ruppy vs ruppy fight and he loaded a eccm instead of web which didn't do hardly anything. If you are reffereing to our little Rup v Rup fights the othr night...the second fight i had eccm fitted and your drones didnt get a jam once? I foolishly let you get away if i remember correctly. Anyways...back on topic...there is nothing wrong with ecm drones. They give solo players more oppertunities to fight ships they would normally loose to as well as giving the pilot a 'get out of jail free' card. I now fit eccm instead of a web if i know i am fighting a cruiser with ecm drones. I don't miss the web cos when you get a jam he has no web for a bit and becuse of the eccm you don't get jammed. The drones are fine by me. --------- If the Thorax was a car it would look like this
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.04.21 22:41:00 - [88] Originally by: Forge Lag If only ECCM modules did something usefull by themselves we would see less nerf ECM threads. And if the other EWAR drones were on par. And what good does your explosive hardener does you when I gank you in a mega? Not all modules are useful all the time, so what. You fit an explosive hardener in case you encounter explosive damage, you may regret not having fit something else if you don't encounter it... That's exactly the same thing with ECCM. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP!
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:00:00 - [89] Originally by: Everyone Dies Edited by: Everyone Dies on 21/04/2008 00:41:44 Originally by: arbalesttom Ecm boats are even more lame, nerf them before you nerf ecm drones ccp. QFMFT I've been in gangs where we had 5-7 BS permajammed by one FALCON! Some if not most were fitting ECCM. ECM need to be looked at, seriously. Really, I've been in fights where not a single god damb target of the 6 I was trying to ECM was jammed. Yay for being pre-aligned, because 2003 unhardened shield hp doesn't last long when Mr Sniper 'pest takes an interest in you. PS I flat out don't believe you, just in case that wasn't obvious. When I'm jamming BS (Recon IV, T2 racials, 3 distort amps, Sig Dispersion IV = strength just over 12, I consider I'm doing well if I jam 3 out of 6 BS targets at any one time. Jam strength 12+ on racials, 8+ on multis; ECCM'd Megathron sensor strength around 40: you do the maths - T2 multi has about a 20% chance to jam. 7 BS "permajammed"? Let's say "perma" means for 2 minutes: 6 cycles. Chance of all 7 being jammed = 0.2^7 = 0.0000128. Chance of this happening 6 times in a row = 0.0000128^6 = 4.4x10^-30 Chance that you're talking complete bull**** = 99.99999999999999999999999999956% CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Sionide Minmatar THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.04.22 00:24:00 - [90] Originally by: GateScout Originally by: Sionide Key word is "either." I was aware of that... My reply still stands. I understand, you are a very unskilled pilot that needs to fly a ship that has nearly a zero chance of dying and is OP and you don't want it to change. I get it. Originally by: Sionide And if you mean the counter is ECCM. Originally by: GateScout That is one method....but not one I choose to employ. Regardless, if that is the tactic you want to employ. I was making an example of powerful just 1 falcon is. Originally by: GateScout Originally by: Sionide P.S. Suggestion #4 would not make the falcon "useless," but put it on par with other recon ships (!) and actually puts any sort of risk to flying the falcon, You're kidding, right? At falcon at 40km is a dead falcon. Always....or should be. If a falcon engages your gang at 40km and isn't dead, cloaked or off-grid by the time a second jamming cycles starts, you need to seriously look at how you prepare. That's just pathetic...OR you were outmatched to begin with. No, you are kidding. You want to fly a falcon, then I don't see why it shouldn't be in the heat of battle just like every other recon ship in the game. Originally by: GateScout Originally by: Sionide just like when I fly my rapier in gang. If nano'ing a falcon was possible, I would agree with you. I'd happily trade some jamming ability to nano a falcon...but that will never happen. So why can't you nano it? It has 3 lows to the rapier's 4. Huginn also has 3 lows and they are nanoed...basically want you are saying is you don't know how to fit other modules to your falcon and are too lazy or dumb to think about it. Hell, if my rapier could web 150km out, why would I need to nano it either. But I wouldn't say it can't be. Originally by: GateScout The falcon has no tank, Yes, having 7 mid slows is no tank? You have no tank cause you fit it all with jammers cause you don't have to have a tank on it. moron. Originally by: GateScout no speed, umm...read above, it's called nano/istab modules. A rapier has no speed either w/o them. Originally by: GateScout no dps, You have 4 high slots of the 3 rapiers...god you epically fail. Originally by: GateScout and a chance based "weapon" system that is highly dependent on racial ship types. Yes, it does...but with 7 jammers how much of a fail chance is it really? Originally by: GateScout Any well balanced gang should have a falcon out of action (dead, cloaked or off-grid) before he can get off a second jamming cycle (even if he's at 150km). If not...I'd say the problem isn't that the falcon is overpowered, but that your gangs are too limited in scope. This has no barring on the argument. Never said there wasn't tactics against the falcon. The argument is the current power of the falcon as is. === In Eve, never bring a knife to a knife fight.

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