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Agazoth III
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:07:00 -
[1]
I use them everyday. There a life saver and if you have dronebay use these. What I don't like is how lame a decent fight can get with these. End of fight is always followed by "gf your drones had me jammed the whole time". Cripple fight is when you both have ECM drones and the same dronebay. The point is instead of fighting someone your fighting drones. Just do something so we can have a little flavor to are dronebays.
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Corstaad
Minmatar
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:08:00 -
[2]
^^^Thats me.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:09:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Agazoth III
I use them everyday. There a life saver and if you have dronebay use these. What I don't like is how lame a decent fight can get with these. End of fight is always followed by "gf your drones had me jammed the whole time". Cripple fight is when you both have ECM drones and the same dronebay. The point is instead of fighting someone your fighting drones. Just do something so we can have a little flavor to are dronebays.
well it's a bit relative.
they are good, but they become useless when you're in a 1vs "bigger than 1 value" fights.
also, the "whole time" thing is relative.
how long was the fight?
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Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Corstaad
Minmatar
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:11:00 -
[4]
Grimpak this isn't a fight its everyday.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Corstaad
Grimpak this isn't a fight its everyday.
so you get 1vs1's every day?
no, it's not a trolling. I'm being serious.
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Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Corstaad
Minmatar
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:16:00 -
[6]
Yes atleast once a day, thats not the point they work great in gangs as well. If I go to my drones overview in some the active systems and scan with my drones setting I get a two page report on EC-300.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:16:00 -
[7]
smart bombs 
also i was able to lock up some heavy ecm drones, popped 1 of em, could have gotten some more but as they were a corpmates I didn't feel like blowing up any more 
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Corstaad
Minmatar
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:39:00 -
[8]
I know part of the fun in this game is the fitting out your ship making counters what not. All I hear though everday is **** ecm drones. On the other forums its well known your ******** if you undock without them. Would be interesting to use T2 drones again.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:41:00 -
[9]
What is the ECM drone orbit distance? Because if it's shorter than 4000 then I don't get why people would call ECM drones "gamebreaking" and "overpowered". Because even a medium EM/Thermal smartbomb would be able to foof them quite easily.
______________________________________________
-You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Morthis Rygal
Gallente
Zero Potential
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:41:00 -
[10]
Bit of a pet peeve of mine, but I just can't stand it when people throw out these terms like perma jamming constantly, when in all likely hood it meant I got jammed once and it ****ed me off.
I've heard the same stories of falcon's perma jamming entire gangs fitted with 5000 ECCM's each, and what have you.
The chance for 5 heavy drones to jam a battleship (22 sensor strength) for a minute straight (3 cycles), is about 5%, and not many ships have the drone bay to even field 5 of those. The chance for 5 light drones to do the same is 0.89%.
If you're saying ECM drones are too powerful and can really change fights (being that their chance to jam is fairly low generally, if you get lucky and they do get a cycle in it can really change the fight), say that, but calling it perma jamming just seems so silly to me, because true perma jamming from ECM drones is rather rare.
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arbalesttom
Caldari
Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:54:00 -
[11]
Ecm boats are even more lame, nerf them before you nerf ecm drones ccp.
***Sig***
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^ |
General Coochie
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.04.20 20:01:00 -
[12]
Edited by: General Coochie on 20/04/2008 20:01:28
5 medium ECM drones jams on average once every 50 seconds for 20seconds on a cruiser. Makes you versatile 1v1 as it means you could bail out, and it can give you the edge IF they work more often then they "should". However if it takes 50sec before first jam, the other guy using dps drones would have popped your ecm drones many times over before that.
Also ECCM reduces drones effectiveness by quite a lot.
Yeah they are good when you have say 3 cruisers vs one bigger ship.
A frig gang attacking your thorax with a mix of ECM themselves? Dps drones would be much much better.
I had 1v1 thorax vs thorax, Where I avoided blaster range long enough to pop all his ecm drones. Then after that my drones didn't get a single cycle and he popped all of mine. They pop in like 2 sec so scooping them is impossible. If I had dps drones in that fight would have won even easier.
The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie) |
Corstaad
Minmatar
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.04.20 20:16:00 -
[13]
If I fight a Thorax in a Ruppy I know by default if they fit medium ECM drones I will lose the fight. Jamming happens much more then once every 50 secs . Even flying my Hurricane I know that if I find another BC he'll be jammed atleast a 1/3 of the time. Nobody likes to mention ecm drones because its a new Iwin for a small scale fights.
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Wu Jiun
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.20 20:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Wu Jiun on 20/04/2008 20:34:04
for a battleship with 22 sensor strength the chance of NOT getting jammed ONCE within 1 minute (3 cycles) by 5 heavy ecm drones is only about 16%. So in other words with a chance of about 84% you are at least jammed once within that minute. Being jammed once in a battleship is about 20-30 sec without dps/tackle etc depending on relock times. So thats pretty noticeable effect. Not saying it shouldn't be as 5 heavies would do a considerable amount of dps if you would've taken them with you.
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Corstaad
Minmatar
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.04.20 20:44:00 -
[15]
I really don't mind ECM boats its makes it so we have the "combined arms" style of pvp and not just one class of ships. This is also why I hate ecm drones because everyone uses them. I don't see combat drones unless is Heavy Drones or Drone boats.
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Cool Goose
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Posted - 2008.04.20 21:05:00 -
[16]
May i haz your drones ?!
No seriously give them to me. I don't know in what part of eve you're playing but let's just say that i've seen a lot of bad luck regarding the ECM drones.
One corp mate of mine was flying a dominix and another a megathron and in about 3 minutes or so the large ecm drones from the domi only broke the lock twice.
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Corstaad
Minmatar
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.04.20 21:10:00 -
[17]
If your on a alt your worthless either no experience or to scared(?) to post on a forum.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Oyster Colors
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Posted - 2008.04.20 23:08:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 20/04/2008 23:09:08
Hmm, I can't see them being used that excessive, out of 10 fights I encounter them maybe one time at most, the most popular drones are Hammerhead IIs I'd say.
It's true that they're very powerful on the Thorax, especially when used against minmatar ships with their pathetic sensors, but this can be dealt with, either fit ECCM (yeah, I know, I don't do it either  ), or just try to pop 1-2 of them or let your dps drones take care of them and they're not a problem anymore since the jamming chances are dropping rapidly.
If that fails just bail, you didn't win the fight but you didn't die either that way, on a side note I try to stay outside web range until I know the enemy drone type (or his offensive capabilities in general) to keep that option available.
On the Hurricane they suck imho, nothing 4 lights and one med could jam what I couldn't kill without problems anyway, and they won't do much against BSs, so I rather go with dps drones.
Now a Thorax will get a few jam cycles in on me, but nowhere near a permajam, so just wait for the failed cycle and take them out.
Btw, jam cycles are 25sec on ECM drones iirc.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.04.20 23:32:00 -
[19]
I'd say ECM drones don't really need a nerf. Afterall, ECM is one of the only viable forms of EWAR left after everything else has been nerfed into oblivion, but only specialized ships can use them effectively. ECM drones allow for some flexability in small gang fights when one doesn't have a Caldari ECM pilot handy.
And even in a boat with weak sensors, ECM drones aren't more than an edge - one easily defeated with smartbombs. I'm not going to applaud users of ECM drones for "thinking outside the box" because it's common enough that they have their own box.
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TimMc
Gallente
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.04.20 23:37:00 -
[20]
My Brutix vs Torp-Neut Raven.
He was permajammed by 5 medium ecm drones for 90% of our 4 minute fight. He finally docked at 50% armour, but I don't think I would have gotten him there if sentries were not helping.
Massively overpowered, but awesome for 1v1 laming.
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Corstaad
Minmatar
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.04.20 23:37:00 -
[21]
See that more along the lines I'm coming from. Everytime I get into a decent small scale fight its ECM drones flying everywhere. It alway ends with, that ECCM did crap, good thing you took out my drones first, I hate ECM drones. I'm just sick of ecm drones to tell yah the truth and want to stop using them but there addicting.
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Hunter Peyote
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Posted - 2008.04.20 23:41:00 -
[22]
ECM drones are fine, it all depends on the fight. What is it with people wanting to nerf bat stuff...
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Everyone Dies
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:30:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Everyone Dies on 21/04/2008 00:30:24
Originally by: arbalesttom
Ecm boats are even more lame, nerf them before you nerf ecm drones ccp.
QFMFT
I've been in gangs where we had 5-7 BS permajammed by one FALCON! Some if not most were fitting ECCM. ECM need to be looked at, seriously.
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MalVortex
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:35:00 -
[24]
No Falcon fit right even carries seven jammers. Good god, I should just stop reading these topics. The forum trolls have their next crusade: ECM. No amount of empirical evidence or statistics will deter them.
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arbalesttom
Caldari
Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:38:00 -
[25]
Edited by: arbalesttom on 21/04/2008 00:39:27
Ecm at this point is WAY overpowered compared to the other racial recon ships. Its just the same like nano and snakes atm, all the guys that fly it try to convince you its not overpowered, but it will get nerfed/relooked at soon anyway.
Ecm boats and nano are current fotm, simple and clear.
***Sig***
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^ |
dolmant
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Morthis Rygal
Bit of a pet peeve of mine, but I just can't stand it when people throw out these terms like perma jamming constantly, when in all likely hood it meant I got jammed once and it ****ed me off.
I've heard the same stories of falcon's perma jamming entire gangs fitted with 5000 ECCM's each, and what have you.
If you're saying ECM drones are too powerful and can really change fights (being that their chance to jam is fairly low generally, if you get lucky and they do get a cycle in it can really change the fight), say that, but calling it perma jamming just seems so silly to me, because true perma jamming from ECM drones is rather rare.
My gang warped to my rapier, we had a vaga, 2 inties, and myself, and the falcon and vaga we warped on got out cos the falcon jammed all of us.
And i've had 1v1 battleship fights where i was jammed every second cycle. It was a raven, and his tank was on the verge of breaking each time.
i think this is not unbalanced, because my 5 ogres played a huge part in breaking his tank. Although i think if some ships can get a drone damage bonus without being overpowered (e.g. the domi gets a drone damage bonus), then if you can apply the same bonus to ECM drones without them being overpowered, i would say its balanced. If not, then i would say ECM drones have a base advantage over the damage drones, if you know what i'm saying. plz tell me if i'm wrong, i don't know @@
My 2 isk
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Corstaad
Minmatar
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:48:00 -
[27]
ECM ships are balanced to the effect your going to be down one DPS boat to have one in gang. So in effect you don't see them as much in little skirmishs. Currently I really like how ECM works. The only reason I brought this up is ECM drones seem like the new NOS. Its not overpowered its just the fact unless you have a droneboat or a Heavy Drone dronebay you'll use ECM drones. Your only dropping a few dps and gaining a 50/50 chance based jammer. I'm currently changing everyone of my setups to deal with ECM drones.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:00:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Corstaad
If I fight a Thorax in a Ruppy I know by default if they fit medium ECM drones I will lose the fight. Jamming happens much more then once every 50 secs . Even flying my Hurricane I know that if I find another BC he'll be jammed atleast a 1/3 of the time. Nobody likes to mention ecm drones because its a new Iwin for a small scale fights.
that because the target in question is an idiot and didnt kill those EASY to kill drones as first thing in fight.
ECM drones are VERY easy to get rid of. They are the ONLY ewar balanced inthis game.
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Corstaad
Minmatar
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:15:00 -
[29]
Those easy to kill drones are time, time you have to disengage target. Swapping webs around kiting the drones, trying to target drones after you've already lost lock. All the time you have a thorax trying to get in web range. My #1 and only worry when fighting a thorax is those ECM drones. Its easy to say just kill drones and all he has to do bring them in and out of his dronebay. I'm sorry if this confuses you guys I'm talking about smaller size engagements not running someone over with six buddies.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:17:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Everyone Dies
Edited by: Everyone Dies on 21/04/2008 00:41:44
Originally by: arbalesttom
Ecm boats are even more lame, nerf them before you nerf ecm drones ccp.
QFMFT
I've been in gangs where we had 5-7 BS permajammed by one FALCON! Some if not most were fitting ECCM. ECM need to be looked at, seriously.
I REALLY do wish people would stop bandying around things like "perma jammed" especially in situations where it is entirely incorrect. A Falcon will carry between 6 and 7 jamemrs on average. A single jammer with good skills will yeild ~50% chance to jam give or take depending on the race. If a single falcon DID happen to try and jam all 5 - 7 battleships, the odds are decisively on the battleship's side that they simply need to pop the untanked falcon the minute they get a lock. I won't clutter a thread like this with silly math to prove my point on why your statement is utterly false however.
That being said, ECM has not grown in power of late overall, though the falcon did get it's bonus upped somewhat. It seems to me that the whines about ECM being completely overpowered started about the same time that the last competing EWAR was nerfed into obscalescence. ECM is the only EWAR that still works, perhaps before we all go asking for it to be broken as well we should think making those other options useful.
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