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Capacitor Rigs a short lesson

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Kiki Arnolds Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:11:00 - [31] EFT-Blaster Mega with 1 LARII running, an inactive MWD, misc hardeners, all lvl 5 skills Base +15.2cap/s recharge, lasts 1M 54s CCCx3 +24.8cap/s peak recharge, lasts 2M 15s SMCx3 +23.1cap/s peak recharge, lasts 3M 19s You'll get more cap/s with CCC than SMC, but unless the CCC gets you to cap stability (or VERY cloese to it) the SMC wins out. There may be some setup that would cause cap injectors to change it, but gaming cap booster usage rates is too complicated for me. ç¦
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:15:00 - [32] Originally by: Midas Man If someone is fitting for permatank in a BS then they have bigger problems if they require an extra 2.2cap/sec to make the permatank tight come on what is that negligable amount going to run? And then my assuption of cost is valid as the only reason to go for a CCC over a SCM is price. 2.2cap/sec is the same as just under a 8% Cap implant. Anyone can EFT up a setup that puts in a extra damage mod due to having more cap. Remember that some people combine Slot 6 +5% and slot 8 +5% with their CCC II's so they can run extra damage mods on permatanks (like the 4 BCU Permatank Golem setup, which would Fail with SCM II's) You assume people run permatanks on only rigs. This is wrong as they use more than just rigs due to no stacking penelty. Think of Compound intrest vs a fixed amount. Remember - Cap mods are not stacking penalised. It is not 2.2 cap, it is just under 8% of total cap recharge. For example, Abaddon. Base = 21.6/sec 3 x CCC = 34.6/sec 3 x SCM = 32.3/sec Now with 4 Cap recharger II, Base = 51.9/sec 3 x CCC = 84.5/sec 3 x SCM = 78.9/sec Now your 2.2 cap/sec gap has suddenly became 5.6 cap/sec. This gap massivly increases baised upon cap mods. T2 Cap rigs and cap implants make this gap even bigger. 2.2cap may not look useful, but just under 8% Extra cap recharge is. Thats because you are talking about a fixed amount and I am talking about a compound amount, which anyone who fits cap mods is working off. As for SCM's being more useful in more situations than CCC's, I kind of doubt this since I dont see many SCM users at all. In fact, the last SCM guy I met changed to CCC's as soon as he worked out the maths involved. Since I fly all shiptypes including caps, I thought I could use SCM's in a custom pilgrim neut fit, but then relised that ergess rigs are far better. So tell us some sensible uses for SCM's. Something like "Abaddon can fire 1 extra volley before it runs out of cap" is hardly the most valid of reasons. The average shield tank fully fitted only gains a couple of extra boosts in the first few minutes, after that, the CCC setup takes over due to the compound power of cap recharge in typical pve setups. -- Billion Isk Mission
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:17:00 - [33] Originally by: Kiki Arnolds EFT-Blaster Mega with 1 LARII running, an inactive MWD, misc hardeners, all lvl 5 skills Base +15.2cap/s recharge, lasts 1M 54s CCCx3 +24.8cap/s peak recharge, lasts 2M 15s SMCx3 +23.1cap/s peak recharge, lasts 3M 19s You'll get more cap/s with CCC than SMC, but unless the CCC gets you to cap stability (or VERY cloese to it) the SMC wins out. There may be some setup that would cause cap injectors to change it, but gaming cap booster usage rates is too complicated for me. Rule of thumb is..... If you use pvp, SMC's are better in setups you use cap booster with, such as pvp blaster mega or pvp Abaddon. CCC's are better in setups that you expect to be fighting for more than a few mins with. -- Billion Isk Mission
Ecky X Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:18:00 - [34] Let me use a different example. Maelstrom: 5x cap flux, 3x CCC 4429 cap, 128.7s cap recharge > 86.7 cap/s Permaruns an XL SB, 3 hards, and a (named or faction) afterburner. ----- Maelstrom: 5x cap flux, 3x SMC 6735 cap, 208s recharge > 80.9 cap/s Caps out in 6.5 minutes with said setup. ----- You post that sometimes more cap is beneficial. However, you don't mention that if you go below peak, the CCC setup will get back up to peak (with mods off) in half the time. Not to mention you have more cap/s.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:10:00 - [35] compound it up if it you want but 2.2 cap/s or 5.6cap/s Its still not allowing any extra cap intensive gear to be fit. CCC fit 8% extra recharge normal capacity SCM fit fantastic recharge almost 50% extra capacity Only example Ive seen so far that makes CCC seem better is the earlier mentioned Capital ship That require the fastest possible jump time. All other ship class's BS and Lower would last much longer in any Fight with SCM's fitted as opposed to CCC's. In the vast majority of cases a SCM is a much better choice. 15% recharge and 15% Capacity is a much better use of the slot than 17.6% extra recharge only. It allows much more variation of fitting. All the CCC arguements I See will only hold true for a very specific fits and i would wager that the SCM will fit fine with those specific fits too. If all you look at is peak recharge fantastic CCC's look better but put into a fight you will soon realise even the 5.6cap/s is next to useless you might find that you can run 1 extra shield hardener on the CCC fit but how long could you run one with 5000 more Capacity.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:18:00 - [36] Originally by: Ecky X Let me use a different example. Maelstrom: 5x cap flux, 3x CCC 4429 cap, 128.7s cap recharge > 86.7 cap/s Permaruns an XL SB, 3 hards, and a (named or faction) afterburner. ----- Maelstrom: 5x cap flux, 3x SMC 6735 cap, 208s recharge > 80.9 cap/s Caps out in 6.5 minutes with said setup. ----- You post that sometimes more cap is beneficial. However, you don't mention that if you go below peak, the CCC setup will get back up to peak (with mods off) in half the time. Not to mention you have more cap/s. Maybe its just me but I wouldn't got pvp or pve with the above mentioned fit. First I would drop a shield hardener for a Shield Booster amplifer to tank more Dmg. Also do you need to run an afterburner constantly and if you do how does it affect your tracking and DPS. And if your fitting with AC's an XL SB would struggle to tank the easiest of Lvl 4's. As in previous post I could spend all day plugging in different fits to find a situation where CCC's are better, but are those fits useful and of the few that are, they are for very specific roles. Which brings me back to SCM are more useful in the vast majority of cases.
Rathion	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:23:00 - [37] If you use the Tech 2 Varients which give 20% each, lets use some nice round numbers to make the math easier. Total Cap 100 Recharge time 10 seconds Extra 20%$ on cap makes it 120 cap which equals 12 per second. If you increase your recharge time by 20% you end up with 100 cap recharge in 8 seconds which is 12.5 per second or a 25% increase that is a whole 5% better then the Semi's and is where the CCC's really shine for permatanks against the Semi's.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:48:00 - [38] Originally by: Midas Man Originally by: Ecky X Let me use a different example. Maelstrom: 5x cap flux, 3x CCC 4429 cap, 128.7s cap recharge > 86.7 cap/s Permaruns an XL SB, 3 hards, and a (named or faction) afterburner. ----- Maelstrom: 5x cap flux, 3x SMC 6735 cap, 208s recharge > 80.9 cap/s Caps out in 6.5 minutes with said setup. ----- You post that sometimes more cap is beneficial. However, you don't mention that if you go below peak, the CCC setup will get back up to peak (with mods off) in half the time. Not to mention you have more cap/s. Maybe its just me but I wouldn't got pvp or pve with the above mentioned fit. First I would drop a shield hardener for a Shield Booster amplifer to tank more Dmg. Also do you need to run an afterburner constantly and if you do how does it affect your tracking and DPS. And if your fitting with AC's an XL SB would struggle to tank the easiest of Lvl 4's. As in previous post I could spend all day plugging in different fits to find a situation where CCC's are better, but are those fits useful and of the few that are, they are for very specific roles. Which brings me back to SCM are more useful in the vast majority of cases. Sigh..... Please post SMC setup where it clearly outclasses Trimarks or CCC rigs and tell us how you plan to use the ship in such a way that the cap recharge rate increase or armour buffer( on pvp blaster ships for example) would not be better than SMC's. Its pointless debating anything else, since you appear to still not relise you were wrong in the Original post and rather than say "opps" you assume everybody else is wrong. -- Billion Isk Mission
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:30:00 - [39] Lesson learned from this thread: build cost of CCCs and SMCs should be swapped Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.04.21 22:10:00 - [40] I have personally always viewed the situation as if I need to maximize the amount of time I can burst my high cap drain items (like XL boosters as an example) I would go with the Semiconducter Memory Circuit. Generally however I am more concerned with how often I can use my high cap drain items and opt instead for CCC's.
ViperVenom Labteck Corporation LTD. Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.04.21 22:19:00 - [41] CCC are dayum near standard issue on 95% of caps in EVE. Semis are good for PVE as they are a Cap battery in a rig slot. Most Vets in Eve know that a Cap battery is better for Pve. Im not going to dump numbers. Ill speak from what i know. I have a Nid 3 CCC max cap skills Max Cap_rep skill I can run Dual Cap reppers. I can my repper for 12 min and some change.. IN fleet combat that should be good enuf.. Boo CCP!!!!
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus	Posted - 2008.04.21 22:43:00 - [42] Originally by: Midas Man 15% recharge and 15% Capacity is a much better use of the slot than 17.6% extra recharge only. It allows much more variation of fitting. All the CCC arguements I See will only hold true for a very specific fits and i would wager that the SCM will fit fine with those specific fits too. If all you look at is peak recharge fantastic CCC's look better but put into a fight you will soon realise even the 5.6cap/s is next to useless you might find that you can run 1 extra shield hardener on the CCC fit but how long could you run one with 5000 more Capacity. Screw shield hardeners. More cap/sec = less need for CPRs = more room for Damage Mods . The Maelstrom fit above with 40 cap/sec more recharge than it needs could easily drop a flux or two for a Gyrostabs, and STILL be cap stable, while your precious SMC fit caps out gyrostabs or no. SCMs give more buffer. When you're not cap stable or neuts are in play, this is valuable. CCCs give more recharge. When this MAKES you cap stable or neuts are not in play, this is valuable. Even if neuts are in play, if you can escape you'll be back up to a useful level of capacitor much faster with CCCs. Plus, CCCs cut your uninsurable rigging costs in HALF from SCMs. Not as much of a deal on T2 ships, but that's a lot more uninsurable cost on T1 craft. SCMs rather than CCCs will not make a bad fit a good fit. CCCs rather than SCMs will not make a good fit a bad fit. Enough said. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Jhati	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:28:00 - [43] I have found that the advantage of CCC's over SCMC's depends on many factors. I beleive the premise of this post is slightly off base. Why do we need an argument over which is better? I personally use either 2x CCCs and 1x SCMC or 2x SCMCs and 1x CCC. depending on many factors including but not limited to: Number of free slots in the layout for cap recharge modules. Other capicitor fittings used. Base size of the capacitor. Cash flow at time of purchase. Cap draw of weapons fitted. Role of ship. So there is not IMO a easy "this > that" option. but it is quite true that you should look into all your options before just slapping 3x CCC's on and calling it good. Do your research, then make the best choice for the ship and role your fitting.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2008.04.22 04:24:00 - [44] stacking penalty to cap recharge plz /me puts on hundreds of flamesuits - putting the gist back into logistics
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.22 07:22:00 - [45] Edited by: Durzel on 22/04/2008 07:24:11 Since both CCC and SMCs work on percentages of your existing cap and cap recharge isn't the "right choice" ship dependant? In other words if you have a ship with a big cap and an already low recharge - you'd surely get more benefit from boosting (as a percentage) the total capacity than reducing (by percentage) the recharge. Some quick EFT numbers on a Nightmare (no ship fitting, no implants, all skills level 5): Base ship cap: 7422 1 x SMC II, 2 x SMC I - Total cap: 11779, Recharge time: 866.2 secs, Peak recharge: 38.2 1 x CCC II, 2 x CCC I - Total cap: 7422, Recharge time: 500.6 secs, Peak recharge: 37.1 If you have a setup which you know doesn't permatank anyway (which is presumably likely on a laser boat anyway), and don't intend to go AFK, isn't the higher buffer a better choice? A difference of 1.1/sec recharge isn't going to make a difference in either setup if your total combined cap usage/sec exceeds it. With those numbers I can't really see why CCC's are so favoured? Is it simply because "everyone else uses them therefore they must be right" or is there some higher thinking I'm missing?
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.22 07:51:00 - [46] Originally by: Durzel Edited by: Durzel on 22/04/2008 07:24:11 Since both CCC and SMCs work on percentages of your existing cap and cap recharge isn't the "right choice" ship dependant? In other words if you have a ship with a big cap and an already low recharge - you'd surely get more benefit from boosting (as a percentage) the total capacity than reducing (by percentage) the recharge. Some quick EFT numbers on a Nightmare (no ship fitting, no implants, all skills level 5): Base ship cap: 7422 1 x SMC II, 2 x SMC I - Total cap: 11779, Recharge time: 866.2 secs, Peak recharge: 38.2 1 x CCC II, 2 x CCC I - Total cap: 7422, Recharge time: 500.6 secs, Peak recharge: 37.1 If you have a setup which you know doesn't permatank anyway (which is presumably likely on a laser boat anyway), and don't intend to go AFK, isn't the higher buffer a better choice? A difference of 1.1/sec recharge isn't going to make a difference in either setup if your total combined cap usage/sec exceeds it. With those numbers I can't really see why CCC's are so favoured? Is it simply because "everyone else uses them therefore they must be right" or is there some higher thinking I'm missing? I wrote a detail list which showed your numbers wrong. However damm forums ate it up. So i am giving you the numbers approx Nightmare: H: 4 x Tach II M: XL Booster II, Amp II, 3 x Hardner II, 2 x Cap recharger II L: Heatsink II, flux II Uses 117 cap/sec approx Permatanks with 3 x CCC or 2 x CCC + 1 x CCC II. Does not permatank with SMC x 3 or SMC II/2xSMC setup. (lats around 6 mins and 20 mins respectivly) 3xCCC > 1 x SMC II + 2 x SMC 3 x CCC gives around 7-8cap/sec approx more than 3 x SMC II on above setup. 1 x CCCII + 2 x CCC gives approx 10-11 cap/sec more than SMCII/2xSMC on above setup 10-11 cap/sec more recharge with CCCI/2xCCC is not "1.1". Remember, CCC's are compound. SMC's are useful whre cap buffer matters, however most of those situations people tend to use cap booster insted and use trimarks or other rigs insted of SMC's. Now can you tell me a situation + ship where people would want to use SMC's over, say, CCC's or Trimarks or any other rigs? -- Billion Isk Mission
lord cyrez Licentia Pro Totus	Posted - 2008.04.22 09:02:00 - [47] Lord WarATron: forget about it. ignorant stays ignorant - usually. and our mister "i'll teach you all a lesson and fail in my first post" Midas SMCman may stay with his higher cap buffer. just dont care about it. you got the numbers, you got the knowledge - he's got his position and his belief. "2.2/s cap is useless" ... "5.6/s cap is useless" he surely NEVER had a REAL TIGHT peak cap recharge fitting, if he can state such. if i have 100 cap per second, and i consume 101 cap per second, it will fail. but hey, when i have 102.2 cap per second, my 101 usage setup will work... "oh noes tis must be witchcraft!! becuz 2.2 cap is useless!!11" i surely wouldnt have invested any further time for posting correct calculations after he has proven himself such an ignorant little weener - props to you, lord waratron but for now - this mind doesnt seem to be open for different wide views, so its just time to let him be ... jedi.hand.move.cmon.forget.about.him.it.makes.lordy.sad.seeing.another.lord.wasting.his.time
Gotrek Gurnisson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.22 12:26:00 - [48] Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 22/04/2008 12:31:51 Originally by: ViperVenom Most Vets in Eve know that a Cap battery is better for Pve. Im not going to dump numbers. Ill speak from what i know. I have a Nid 3 CCC max cap skills Max Cap_rep skill I can run Dual Cap reppers. SMC rigs are a double edged sword: 1) Get a nice fat cap buffer so you can run cap intensive mods for longer than CCC would support. 2) You have a lower cap recharge rate than with CCC rigs, so you are more likely to cap out using 'normal' fittings. It seems to me there is no 'best' - as occasions arise in PVE and PVP where both of these traits can be useful. E.g. My Apocalypse has 9000 cap (7500 + 20% from Energy Management IV). In order to perma-run all my mods and lasers I need to reach a peak recharge rate of 92 cap/sec with my current skills. By fitting 3 Cap Recharger II in the mids and one CPR II in the lows I find that with my current skills I still need 3 rigs in the lows to reach my target. The two different options are: 3 x SMC give me 14k cap and a peak regen of 93 cap/sec. 3 x CCC give me 9k cap and peak regen of 110 cap/sec. So on my ship both options allow me to perma-run my dual-repped megabeam setup. HOWEVER - using SMC rigs whilst initially giving me a bigger cap buffer doesnt leave anywhere near as much margin of error for cap recharge rate as the CCC rigs - especially on any missions involving NOS/NEUT ships. On the one hand the SMC rigs give me a 14k cap buffer if I do get NOS / Neuts affecting me. However if I was perma-running I would already be at 31% cap as my cap use is so close to the peak regen rate. I.e. I will have 31% of 14k = 4300 cap left. With CCC rigs my higher recharge rate means even perma running I will be sat at ~ 60% of max capacitor. 60% of 9k = 5400. So in my case I actually BENEFIT from using CCC rigs as the amount of cap left when perma running is GREATER than if I switched to SMC rigs. SMC rigs really are oriented to short bursts of max cap use - which isnt really applicable to the majority of L4 missions. Its like arguing chalk and cheese - they are both useful but in very different situations. Edit: I have a feeling my sustained cap level is actually closer to 50% remaining when perma-running using 3 x CCC rigs - but my original point still stands as the level of remaining cap in the battery is similar - but I also have a faster regen rate with CCC rigs.
Galeros Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.22 13:10:00 - [49] Originally by: Midas Man something like 2 cap per sec on a BS and less for anything smaller will not do anything that you couldn't do without it It is irrelevant if it's 2 cap/sec or 250 cap/sec, OP categorically stated that SMC is better and has been proven wrong. Nothing else to discuss. If he said 'in some cases' or 'sometimes' then we could go on, but since he posted a simple TRUE/FALSE statement, he failed. PS: And I thought philosophy class was a waste of time at uni.
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2008.04.22 15:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Lord WarATron Semi = Cap Battery in rig form CCC = Cap recharger in rig form. Totally wrong. SMC =/= Cap Battery just because Cap Battery gives You FIXED AMOUNT of capacitor, while SMC increasing Your cap at some PERCENTAGE of Your least cap... Key word are "least", because You all discussing fittings made from thin air. "Zero skills" and nude hulls with just capacitors and rigs. Why not rig shuttles then? In real fight it is MUCH matters, if You are using: MWD, SPR, Cap Flux Coils... Things that affects capacitor in a bad way. That's why battery sometimes gives You BETTER cap recharge, than Cap Recharger in the same place. But for SMC it's not always true and need some hard match. Originally by: Ciryadin EFT anyone -.-? [snip] And there's why EFT is worse than QF... In QF You may actually see what happened to our capacitor. Then all You need is to get a stopwatch and see how long Your cap lasts and where is the problems. EFT just giving You a number... And it is very questionable number as cap problem is not that simple. I've had, for example, batge setup, that was capstable in EFT, but led me to issues in real world. Answer was simple: instant cap usage of 3 strips were way over the total amount of cap on the barge. But async run of all strips did the trick, cap was successfully recharging to the point of about 60% before each subsequent strip cycle. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Varrakk Phantom Squad Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.22 15:51:00 - [51] Try to mix these rigs :)
Gotrek Gurnisson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.22 15:59:00 - [52] Originally by: Tonto Auri That's why battery sometimes gives You BETTER cap recharge, than Cap Recharger in the same place. QFT. I.e. If the amount of cap added is a big enough proportion of your total cap then regen rates rise more than with a cap recharger. This is especially true of multiple cap rechargers subject to STACKING PENALTIES - as each one added is less efficient than the last. E.g. My Vengeance setup for L2 rep grinding in Empire space uses 1 cap recharger and 1 battery - since the battery boosts my regen way more then adding a second CR II. (The battery adds about 35% to my total cap - which works out better than a cap recharger and also allows longer boost from my AB on the approach to each target) However the larger cap batteries generally give a smaller percentage increase in your overall cap size by the time you are flying Battleships (especially an Apoc!), and so cap rechargers tend to predominate.
Skyr Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.22 16:47:00 - [53] Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Originally by: Tonto Auri That's why battery sometimes gives You BETTER cap recharge, than Cap Recharger in the same place. QFT. I.e. If the amount of cap added is a big enough proportion of your total cap then regen rates rise more than with a cap recharger. This is especially true of multiple cap rechargers subject to STACKING PENALTIES - as each one added is less efficient than the last. E.g. My Vengeance setup for L2 rep grinding in Empire space uses 1 cap recharger and 1 battery - since the battery boosts my regen way more then adding a second CR II. (The battery adds about 35% to my total cap - which works out better than a cap recharger and also allows longer boost from my AB on the approach to each target) However the larger cap batteries generally give a smaller percentage increase in your overall cap size by the time you are flying Battleships (especially an Apoc!), and so cap rechargers tend to predominate. Agreed, however you just brought Capacitor Batteries into the picture which have a fixed amount of cap on them whereas SMC add %. In that respect, SMC still adds a given % to a venegeance as well as Nightmare. On the post about the nightmare... I think you have you math wrong, can you, step by step, write how you got SMCs getting better recharge than CCCs? Since if CCCs ALWAYS (they do!) have that ~2% advantage over SMCs in cap/s recharge, no matter if you start with capacitor of 1 or 1,000,000 , the CCCs will still give you ~2% more recharge (per CCC). You calculated something wrong.
Tenpun M	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:49:00 - [54] Originally by: Midas Man hope this will educate a few atleast, those who don't understand maths flame away
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:25:00 - [55] There are reasons to use semiconductor memory cells. However peak recharge vs. capacitor control circuits aren't one of them. X / 0.85 > X * 1.15 for all values of X. Doesn't mean having more max cap isn't useful, but ... well, you don't ever get more regen from SMCs. I'd also point out that there's an important category where recharge time on cap is important, above and beyond 'peak cap per second' and that's when using a jumpdrive.
Chelone Stone Shadow Syndicate	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:30:00 - [56] Originally by: Midas Man UnRigged you have 1000uF and 1000uF/100s=10uF/s recharge rate. Actually, your peak recharge would be 2.4 * capacity * rech. time = 24 cap/s peak recharge. Originally by: Midas Man with 1 CCCI you have 1000uF which recharges in (100s/1.15) 85s so 1000uF/85s= 11.5uF/s Incorrect. A 15% cap recharger (whether module or rig) multiplies your recharge time by (1 - 0.15) or 0.85. 24 / 0.85 = 28.235 cap/s (peak.) A capacity module or rig of +15% would multiply capacity by 1.15, 24 * 1.15 = 27.6 cap/s (peak.) Any more "maths" comments?
Chelone Stone Shadow Syndicate	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:38:00 - [57] Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson This is especially true of multiple cap rechargers subject to STACKING PENALTIES - as each one added is less efficient than the last. Cap rechargers have never had stacking penalties. Each one gives MORE cap/s than the last: 0 cap II: 10 cap/s base (example) 1 cap II: 10 / 0.8 = 12.5 cap/s (+2.5) 2 cap II: 10 / (0.8)^2 = 15.625 cap/s (+3.125) 3 cap II: 10 / (0.8)^3 = 19.53125 cap/s (+3.90625) etc...
Morthis Rygal Gallente Zero Potential	Posted - 2008.04.22 23:46:00 - [58] Originally by: Midas Man compound it up if it you want but 2.2 cap/s or 5.6cap/s Its still not allowing any extra cap intensive gear to be fit. CCC fit 8% extra recharge normal capacity SCM fit fantastic recharge almost 50% extra capacity Only example Ive seen so far that makes CCC seem better is the earlier mentioned Capital ship That require the fastest possible jump time. All other ship class's BS and Lower would last much longer in any Fight with SCM's fitted as opposed to CCC's. In the vast majority of cases a SCM is a much better choice. 15% recharge and 15% Capacity is a much better use of the slot than 17.6% extra recharge only. It allows much more variation of fitting. All the CCC arguements I See will only hold true for a very specific fits and i would wager that the SCM will fit fine with those specific fits too. If all you look at is peak recharge fantastic CCC's look better but put into a fight you will soon realise even the 5.6cap/s is next to useless you might find that you can run 1 extra shield hardener on the CCC fit but how long could you run one with 5000 more Capacity. Let's do some really simplified math here, I'm rounding this number off 5000 max cap vs 5cap/sec. So 1000 seconds to break even. That's like 17 minutes. The only missions that take less than 17 minutes are the ones I never even touch my booster on anyway. But hey, thank god I have that 5000 extra cap to run hardeners draining I believe 3.8 cap/sec. Man what a life saver. Quote: First I would drop a shield hardener for a Shield Booster amplifer to tank more Dmg. Also do you need to run an afterburner constantly and if you do how does it affect your tracking and DPS. And if your fitting with AC's an XL SB would struggle to tank the easiest of Lvl 4's. If I needed any more proof you don't seem to have much of a clue, you're certainly providing me with it here. An XL SB struggles to tank the easiest of level 4's? A shield tank with decent skills and 4 hardeners can do half the level 4 missions (certainly all the easy ones) without boosting at all (depending on ship of course, and yes I'm talking about active tanked ships, not passive)... The OP just strikes me as a pseudointellectual trying to show off just how good he is and failing horribly. Hell, he even gave his capacitor the units of micro farads, and I have absolutely no clue why. Besides the obvious point that I'd hope spaceships use capacitors quite a bit bigger than one I could put in a damn toothbrush, the unit doesn't even make sense to describe the amount of energy contained in a capacitor (as farads is typically a static number giving you an idea of the maximum charge a capacitor can hold).
Cuebick Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.04.23 00:13:00 - [59] to you guys doing all these calcs.... BORED @ WORK? -
Lalita Prestoc	Posted - 2008.04.23 02:17:00 - [60] Originally by: Lord WarATron Cap Amount is irrelevant for the things more people use CCC's for. Where it is relevant, people use Semi's insted. E.G Semi's with a cap booster makes sense for pvp. But for PvE permatanks, its not better than CCC, which was the OP got wrong. Sort of true. Firstly you won't catch me using either on a PvP setup, poly's or tank rigs by far are better. As far as PvE goes I think it depends more on the rest of the setup the same as flux. The closer you get to perma running the better recharge is, if you can't get close then your better off with the amount and forgetting about perma running. I mean 3k cap is 7.5 LAR boosts which is 80 seconds. In that time a CCC setup wouldn't of made enough cap compared to amount rigs for 1 extra LAR boost. The difference is in how close to perma running is the amount setup compared to the CCC setup for convenience of not having to manage the cap using mods. For example my mission maelstrom uses a large t2 booster for perma running with 3 CCC and 2 flux, switch it on and forget. But if I was to use a t2 XL booster, because it would take a load of cap mods to perma run (or faction) i'd use PDS and amount rigs and just manage the XL booster so I get the extra peak tank when needed using the extra cap amount for that period.

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