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Capacitor Rigs a short lesson

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Gotrek Gurnisson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.23 09:41:00 - [61] Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 23/04/2008 09:41:54 Originally by: Chelone Cap rechargers have never had stacking penalties. Each one gives MORE cap/s than the last Not according to my spreadsheet calculations which fairly accurately predict my total recharge time. I though the difference was stacking penalties applied to multiples of the EXACTLY THE SAME TYPE of item - and didnt affect different items stacked together? E.g. 1 x CCC + 1 x Cap Recharger II + 1 x Cap Power Relay has no stacking penalties as they are all different types of items. However, 3 x Cap Recharger gets the stacking penalties, so first is at 100% effectiveness, 2nd at 85% effectiveness, 3rd at 57% effectiveness? This would give total recharge time modifier of: (1-(0.2100%))(1-(0.285%))(1-(0.257%)) = 0.588 Whereas 3 cap rechargers without stacking penalties would give a total recharge time modifier of: (1-0.2)(1-0.2)*(1-0.2) = 0.512 With 3 cap rechargers a BS with around 6k cap and recharge time of 1000 sec will regen in: 588 sec with stacking penalties 512 sec without stacking penalties I will double check tonight - but Im fairly sure they do have stacking penalties. Easy way to tell is to add a fourth recharger as with stacking penalties it will have almost no effect - whereas you will still see a moderate reduction on recharge time if they are not affected.
Gotrek Gurnisson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.23 10:00:00 - [62] Originally by: Lord WarATron For example, Abaddon. Base = 21.6/sec 3 x CCC = 34.6/sec 3 x SCM = 32.3/sec Now with 4 Cap recharger II, Base = 51.9/sec 3 x CCC = 84.5/sec 3 x SCM = 78.9/sec If Lord Warratrons figures are correct then the effect of 4 cap recharger II is to modify recharge time by a factor of 0.416 (21.6 / 51.9) I.e. Recharge time descreases by a factor of 0.416 so recharge rate increases by the same factor. Assuming his numbers are correct (and measured in game) then it does look like cap rechargers DONT have stacking penalties, as (0.8)^4 ~ 0.41 modifier. Anyone know a thread confirming they dont affect cap recharge rates?
Forum Warrior	Posted - 2008.04.23 11:25:00 - [63] Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Anyone know a thread confirming they dont affect cap recharge rates? There probably isn't one specifically proving this because it's generally assumed to be common knowledge. Also, you've got wrong assumptions about how the stacking penalty works: Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson I though the difference was stacking penalties applied to multiples of the EXACTLY THE SAME TYPE of item - and didnt affect different items stacked together? Wrong. Stacking doesn't care from which (type) of module (or rig - with exceptions, see below) the bonus to the attribute they're modifying comes, just that it's there. Thus for example EANMs suffer penalty when there are active hardeners and/or resist rigs fitted. Same for dmg mods + rigs, etc. Capacitor is EXEMPT from this. Same for DCUs - shield/armor/hull hp % bonus too, afaik. (also optimal range rigs, which might or might not be buggy atm, I don't think there was an official answer to that yet)
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.04.23 11:31:00 - [64] 1) I had already been corrected in my error on the maths but keep flaming away just proves how much of an ignorant troll you are to keep on about it. 2) I have conceded that in very limited situations a CCC is more viable. As my original post was to correct the bad advice i see given all the time. People seem to tell others they must use CCC's because they are better. I still stand by the fact they are not as useful to the majority 3) There is a lot of contradiction going on in here. I started by saying SCM are the correct fitting to use. and lots of people start flaming away how much better CCC's are without taking into account all the facts, and only seeing peak recharge as the reason for using CCC's or SCM's. Conclusions. 1) If your on a capital ship courier run or moving through hostile space and require a rapid jump time or... 2) If you fit for a permacap and in a very rare instance that a few extra cap/s is going to be the difference between permarun and not.. Then CCC's are for you. For ANY other situation where people want to fit cap mods. SCM's are by far the better choice. In simple terms (approx values taken from all answers in this thread) Ship with 3x CCC fitted gives ~ 62.6% boost to recharge rate (thats 1.1761.1761.176) and 0% boost to capacity. Ship with 3 x SCM's fitted gives ~ 52% boost to recharge rate and a 52% boost to Capacity. So anyone can see that overall discounting the two very limited set ups above, 3 SCM would be a much better choice over CCC's for any pilot. there are a few reasons everyone buys CCC's. Mis-information provided by LordaTron and similar folk and the Price difference. With a bit of luck this thread will help more people become aware that flocking like sheep to CCC's is only useful in the limited fit that it is nessecary.
Forum Warrior	Posted - 2008.04.23 11:50:00 - [65] Originally by: Midas Man 2) If you fit for a permacap and in a very rare instance that a few extra cap/s is going to be the difference between permarun and not.. That's not very rare, at all. If you are at (or near) max capacitor-influencing skills and trying to maximize DPS a very few cap/second often make or break the whole fitting - if you absolutely need perma tank at all, granted. I personally (I GUARANTEE IT! ) have flown probably at least 5 different mission fittings that were in the region of not more than about 3 cap/s over total cap stability, often less. And when do you seriously fit capacitor rigs in PVP at all, unless on capital ships? Anyway... Due to my, as unfortunately much too frequently proven, somewhat too high opinion of humanity I have no choice but to hereby congratulate you on the extraordinary quality of your trolling. Even _I_ could not resist! Keep it up!
Morthis Rygal Gallente Zero Potential	Posted - 2008.04.23 12:24:00 - [66] Originally by: Midas Man 1) I had already been corrected in my error on the maths but keep flaming away just proves how much of an ignorant troll you are to keep on about it. 2) I have conceded that in very limited situations a CCC is more viable. As my original post was to correct the bad advice i see given all the time. People seem to tell others they must use CCC's because they are better. I still stand by the fact they are not as useful to the majority 3) There is a lot of contradiction going on in here. I started by saying SCM are the correct fitting to use. and lots of people start flaming away how much better CCC's are without taking into account all the facts, and only seeing peak recharge as the reason for using CCC's or SCM's. Conclusions. 1) If your on a capital ship courier run or moving through hostile space and require a rapid jump time or... 2) If you fit for a permacap and in a very rare instance that a few extra cap/s is going to be the difference between permarun and not.. Then CCC's are for you. For ANY other situation where people want to fit cap mods. SCM's are by far the better choice. In simple terms (approx values taken from all answers in this thread) Ship with 3x CCC fitted gives ~ 62.6% boost to recharge rate (thats 1.1761.1761.176) and 0% boost to capacity. Ship with 3 x SCM's fitted gives ~ 52% boost to recharge rate and a 52% boost to Capacity. So anyone can see that overall discounting the two very limited set ups above, 3 SCM would be a much better choice over CCC's for any pilot. there are a few reasons everyone buys CCC's. Mis-information provided by LordaTron and similar folk and the Price difference. With a bit of luck this thread will help more people become aware that flocking like sheep to CCC's is only useful in the limited fit that it is nessecary. It's ironic to see you calling people ignorant when pretty much every post in here but yours is about how wrong you are, with math to back it up (math that's actually right even, unlike yours!). In just about every PvE situation, cap stability matters more than max cap. In short missions, cap doesn't matter much at all as you'll probably fly through the mission before spending much either way. In long missions, keeping your cap up over an extended period of time matters, and CCC's simply do that better than SCM's. Try doing the second pocket in mordus headhunters with full agro and tell me that sustaining cap over long periods of time doesn't matter. Even if SCM's came very close to performing as well as CCC's in PvE, they're 5 mil more per, so it's still pointless. With a little luck, maybe we can teach even someone as dense as you that cap stability matters more than OMFG MAX CAP BIG NUMBERS SWEET in missions.
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2008.04.23 12:52:00 - [67] Originally by: Cuebick to you guys doing all these calcs.... BORED @ WORK? No, using brain in the intended way. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.04.23 13:02:00 - [68] Originally by: Morthis Rygal It's ironic to see you calling people ignorant when pretty much every post in here but yours is about how wrong you are, with math to back it up (math that's actually right even, unlike yours!). not really I have corrected a calculation error and conseded that in a few situations CCC's would be a more viable choice. You have managed to read and post in this thread and missed all the post suggesting the same as I do ie SCM are beter in alot or most situation. therefore you sir are ignorant. And most of the CCC's rule posts in here are also ignorant believing that every ship must be fit for permacap and there CCC's are always the better choice. Originally by: Morthis Rygal In long missions, keeping your cap up over an extended period of time matters, and CCC's simply do that better than SCM's. Try doing the second pocket in mordus headhunters with full agro and tell me that sustaining cap over long periods of time doesn't matter. Try doing a mission where your Cap last allday but your taking 600 Dps and can only tank 400. How much good is your pemacap then? Yes Permacap is good. I have one running on my main for lvl 4's and I do it with OMG SCM's. BUT Perma cap is far from the only ship set up available and many don't use one. SO you can use CCC's for better Permacap but you can also permacap with SCM's. In a few very cap intensive fits where a few cap/s will break it go for CCC's. And where did I say sustaining cap for long periods doesn't matter??? I have said a few cap/s extra is pointless, and for most people it will be unless there is a tight cap fit for permacap. but Oh we have already covered that so Ignorance again. Originally by: Morthis Rygal Even if SCM's came very close to performing as well as CCC's in PvE, they're 5 mil more per, so it's still pointless. They do perform almost aswell as CCC's on Recharge alone, by a small fraction ie 17.6% compared with 15%. BUT for you extra 5mil or so you get 50% extra capacity. so if your not permacapping or you get neuted etc, etc, you will survive longer. Originally by: Morthis Rygal With a little luck, maybe we can teach even someone as dense as you that cap stability matters more than OMFG MAX CAP BIG NUMBERS SWEET in missions. Your Dence and OMFG CCC's ARE CHEAP I MUST FIT THEM (this is sarcasm if you don't realise just thought I would match your grasped from thin air consept with a similar meaningless and self imagined statement).
Daminma2 Perkone	Posted - 2008.04.23 13:38:00 - [69] Originally by: Midas Man CCC's = Poor Choice Seemiconductor Memory Cell I = the correct fitting to use . . . . hope this will educate a few atleast, those who don't understand maths flame away Originally by: Midas Man not really I have corrected a calculation error and conseded that in a few situations CCC's would be a more viable choice. If in your view there are situations where CCC was better then you can't call CCC a poor choice overall as you have claimed. Your original claim has therefore been smashed. Join regular ship fitting discussions where CCC rigs are suggested and see if you can improve upon them to see if your theory is correct in assuming that SMCs are more useful overall (which I disagree).
Majuan Shuo Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 13:59:00 - [70] t2 maths hits you perfectly, wrecking you for over ninethousand damage q-"WELL WHAT ABOUT THE PIRATE CODE!?" a-"well they're more like guidelines.."
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.23 14:07:00 - [71] Thanks for the lesson! Join The Muffin Factory
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.04.23 14:11:00 - [72] Originally by: Daminma2 Originally by: Midas Man CCC's = Poor Choice Seemiconductor Memory Cell I = the correct fitting to use . . . . hope this will educate a few atleast, those who don't understand maths flame away Originally by: Midas Man not really I have corrected a calculation error and conseded that in a few situations CCC's would be a more viable choice. If in your view there are situations where CCC was better then you can't call CCC a poor choice overall as you have claimed. Your original claim has therefore been smashed. Join regular ship fitting discussions where CCC rigs are suggested and see if you can improve upon them to see if your theory is correct in assuming that SMCs are more useful overall (which I disagree). As you can see from the 2 posts above. I originally called CCC's a poor choice. i miss calculated and saw them as the same 15% recharge boost as a SCM gives which leads me to think CCC's are a poor choice. From the second quote you can see i have conseded this view. I could edit the first post but then anyone else reading the thread could think i was hiding anything so i won't. The original post came before the posts which corrected the calculation error. So yes CCC's give a slightly better boost to recharge. Overall SCM's will be more beneficial to the majoity of fits if put in place of a CCC's. On any fit but the quick jumping capital or the "i'm a few cap/s short of a permacap" Fits. The 15% increase to capacity aswell as recharge is a better option than 17.6% to just recharge.
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.23 14:13:00 - [73] Dude, if you just go away the thread will eventually be forgotten. Sometimes that's best.
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.23 14:26:00 - [74] Really struggling to get my head around this.. See below pic: Using the above unfitted Nightmare, lvl 5 skills, no implants - peak recharge on the CCC version is 37.1, peak on SMC setup is 34. Because the recharge time is so different does this basically mean that the CCC setup stays closer to the peak recharge speed for longer than the SMC setup?
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.04.23 15:12:00 - [75] peak recharge is active at ~31% capacitor. I would say that the larger the Capacity the longer you will remain close to peak recharge. Let us assume that you get 90% or greater of your recharge rate between 25% & 35% of you total cap (This figure is being used for illustration only exact amount is unknown to me but recharge rate falls off from peak in a curve above and below theat value) so if you have 7000 cap you will get 90% or better of your peak rate when you capacitor is between 1750 and 2450. If you increased this to 11000 cap you will get 90% or better of your peak rate when your capacitor is between 2750 and 3850.
Scout McAlt	Posted - 2008.04.23 15:34:00 - [76] Edited by: Scout McAlt on 23/04/2008 15:35:29 Originally by: Midas Man Ship with 3x CCC fitted gives ~ 62.6% boost to recharge rate (thats 1.1761.1761.176) and 0% boost to capacity. Ship with 3 x SCM's fitted gives ~ 52% boost to recharge rate and a 52% boost to Capacity. Incorrect. 3 x SCM's DO NOT GIVE BOOST TO RECHAGE RATE. The Recharge rate remains unchanged as the cap takes the same amount of seconds to recharge. It only gives boost to capacity. CCC rigs are the only rigs to effect recharge rate. I dont know why someone would every use SMC rigs. No theory please, tell us a REAL setup where SMC's are better than other rigs pls.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.23 15:41:00 - [77] Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Originally by: Lord WarATron For example, Abaddon. Base = 21.6/sec 3 x CCC = 34.6/sec 3 x SCM = 32.3/sec Now with 4 Cap recharger II, Base = 51.9/sec 3 x CCC = 84.5/sec 3 x SCM = 78.9/sec If Lord Warratrons figures are correct then the effect of 4 cap recharger II is to modify recharge time by a factor of 0.416 (21.6 / 51.9) I.e. Recharge time descreases by a factor of 0.416 so recharge rate increases by the same factor. Assuming his numbers are correct (and measured in game) then it does look like cap rechargers DONT have stacking penalties, as (0.8)^4 ~ 0.41 modifier. Anyone know a thread confirming they dont affect cap recharge rates? There is no stacking penelty on Cap mods of any type. I can confirm this and so can you by fitting multiple cap mods to ships. This means that insted of a penelty, there is a bonus due to compounding. So where stacking makes each mod worse, compounding makes each mode even better.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.04.23 15:51:00 - [78] Originally by: Scout McAlt Edited by: Scout McAlt on 23/04/2008 15:35:29 Originally by: Midas Man Ship with 3x CCC fitted gives ~ 62.6% boost to recharge rate (thats 1.1761.1761.176) and 0% boost to capacity. Ship with 3 x SCM's fitted gives ~ 52% boost to recharge rate and a 52% boost to Capacity. Incorrect. 3 x SCM's DO NOT GIVE BOOST TO RECHAGE RATE. The Recharge rate remains unchanged as the cap takes the same amount of seconds to recharge. It only gives boost to capacity. CCC rigs are the only rigs to effect recharge rate. I dont know why someone would every use SMC rigs. No theory please, tell us a REAL setup where SMC's are better than other rigs pls. You fail, even worse than my calculation slip above. if you fit a SCM you increase you total Capacity but your recharge TIME remains unchanged. since Recharge rate = Total Capacitor/Recharge Time then SCM's DO affect recharge RATE You are exactly the people my lesson was aimed at until I made the fatal flaw of mis calculating slightly and then nothing was safe from the flames. But the 100% truth is CCC add ~ 17.6% Recharge RATE and SCM's add 15% Recharge RATE
Jarne Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Star Buccaneers	Posted - 2008.04.23 15:54:00 - [79] Midas Man reminds me of those Wikipedia maniacs always editing the articles according to their _belief_, again and again, without having any clue... Cause that's what you do Midas Man. You promote your belief, not facts. You even make up numbers to "prove" your point. What's wrong with you? Hey I have a nice "fact" like yours: Small Capacitor Batteries are better than Large ones because the difference in cap gain is negligible and they need waaayy less power...!?? Please lock this stupid thread.
Scout McAlt	Posted - 2008.04.23 15:58:00 - [80] Edited by: Scout McAlt on 23/04/2008 16:01:36 Originally by: Midas Man Originally by: Scout McAlt Edited by: Scout McAlt on 23/04/2008 15:35:29 Originally by: Midas Man Ship with 3x CCC fitted gives ~ 62.6% boost to recharge rate (thats 1.1761.1761.176) and 0% boost to capacity. Ship with 3 x SCM's fitted gives ~ 52% boost to recharge rate and a 52% boost to Capacity. Incorrect. 3 x SCM's DO NOT GIVE BOOST TO RECHAGE RATE. The Recharge rate remains unchanged as the cap takes the same amount of seconds to recharge. It only gives boost to capacity. CCC rigs are the only rigs to effect recharge rate. I dont know why someone would every use SMC rigs. No theory please, tell us a REAL setup where SMC's are better than other rigs pls. You fail, even worse than my calculation slip above. if you fit a SCM you increase you total Capacity but your recharge TIME remains unchanged. since Recharge rate = Total Capacitor/Recharge Time then SCM's DO affect recharge RATE You are exactly the people my lesson was aimed at until I made the fatal flaw of mis calculating slightly and then nothing was safe from the flames. But the 100% truth is CCC add ~ 17.6% Recharge RATE and SCM's add 15% Recharge RATE In addition to illogical maths, you are inventing new defenitions. Rechare rate is the rate of time it takes to recharge 100% of cap. Recharge rate increase or decrease is changes to the time. Dont take my world for it, show info on these mods in game. It clearly shows CCC does recharge rate, and SMC does capacity. Noware does it say SMC does recharge rate. Tell us all 1 single setup where someone would want to use these useless SMC's over other rigs. Just 1 single genuine real world setup. Pvpers use extenders/trimarks/weapon/utility rigs etc. PvE ers use CCC rigs. It seems only morons use SMC's.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.04.23 16:02:00 - [81] Originally by: Scout McAlt Edited by: Scout McAlt on 23/04/2008 15:59:28 Originally by: Midas Man Originally by: Scout McAlt Edited by: Scout McAlt on 23/04/2008 15:35:29 Originally by: Midas Man Ship with 3x CCC fitted gives ~ 62.6% boost to recharge rate (thats 1.1761.1761.176) and 0% boost to capacity. Ship with 3 x SCM's fitted gives ~ 52% boost to recharge rate and a 52% boost to Capacity. Incorrect. 3 x SCM's DO NOT GIVE BOOST TO RECHAGE RATE. The Recharge rate remains unchanged as the cap takes the same amount of seconds to recharge. It only gives boost to capacity. CCC rigs are the only rigs to effect recharge rate. I dont know why someone would every use SMC rigs. No theory please, tell us a REAL setup where SMC's are better than other rigs pls. You fail, even worse than my calculation slip above. if you fit a SCM you increase you total Capacity but your recharge TIME remains unchanged. since Recharge rate = Total Capacitor/Recharge Time then SCM's DO affect recharge RATE You are exactly the people my lesson was aimed at until I made the fatal flaw of mis calculating slightly and then nothing was safe from the flames. But the 100% truth is CCC add ~ 17.6% Recharge RATE and SCM's add 15% Recharge RATE In addition to illogical maths, you are inventing new defenitions. Rechare rate is the rate of time it takes to recharge 100% of cap. Recharge rate increase or decrease is changes to the time. Dont take my world for it, show info on these mods in game. It clearly shows CCC does recharge rate, and SMC does capacity. Noware does it say SMC does recharge rate. Tell us all 1 single setup where someone would want to use these useless SMC's over other rigs. Just 1 single genuine real world setup. Pvpers use extenders or trimarks. PvE ers use CCC rigs. It seems only morons use SMC's LOL LOL LOL Please reread your posts and think about it. look up rate in the dictionary lol failed twice
Gotrek Gurnisson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.23 16:13:00 - [82] Originally by: Midas Man peak recharge is active at ~31% capacitor. I would say that the larger the Capacity the longer you will remain close to peak recharge. Let us assume that you get 90% or greater of your recharge rate between 25% & 35% of you total cap (This figure is being used for illustration only exact amount is unknown to me but recharge rate falls off from peak in a curve above and below theat value) so if you have 7000 cap you will get 90% or better of your peak rate when you capacitor is between 1750 and 2450. If you increased this to 11000 cap you will get 90% or better of your peak rate when your capacitor is between 2750 and 3850. The problem with this approach is you are all quoting figures ASSUMING THAT YOUR CAP USE IS ALWAYS EQUAL TO PEAK RECHARGE RATE. This is not always the case. The example I gave on the first page for my Apoc shows that with a high enough recharge rate the amount of cap left in the battery can be HIGHER than if using SMC rigs. I.e. Because SMC rigs give lower recharge you are likely to be closer to peak recharge after any extended period of running all your mods. Whilst with CCC mods even though your cap is smaller it will hover at a much higher % of total cap. E.g. in the example I quoted my Apoc permarunning all its mods with 3 x SMC rigs will end up at the peak recharge point (31% of 14k cap ~ 4300 cap). However if I use 3 x CCC rigs I end up at 60% remaining cap (60% of 9k cap = 5400 cap). The ONLY time SMC rigs gain clear-cut benefits over CCC rigs is when both setups HAVE FULL CAP TO START WITH. As soon as you look at running mods over any significant length of time things start to swing in favor of the CCC rigs - especially as you my be able to get away running 2 CC rigs for perma-tanking where 3 SMCs would be required. SMC Rigs - Great for PVP where short bursts of large cap use may be required. A lot harder for players to Neut you - but will always be able to NOS you as you have more cap than they do. CCC rigs - Better long term cap recharge rate for missions. Easier to get Neuted and NOSsed in PVP. BTW its also very ship for missions. Ships requiring you to be constantly running all your guns and high cost mods (e.g. Amarr ships) need better perma-recharge gear than say, a Domi which doesnt always need to go all out cap-wise because of its immense potential for the drones to do damage. I still say its like comparing chalk and cheese. Two different setups - both with advantages and disadvantages.
Gotrek Gurnisson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.23 16:16:00 - [83] Originally by: Midas Man look up rate in the dictionary lol failed twice QFT. I especially like the use of "rate of time". I dont think we need to be introducing the General Theory of Relativity into the picture, as thats the only thing I can think of that would change the 'rate at which time passes'...... Anyone got a small artificial singularity present? And no, I dont mean the test server
Kusha'an Gallente Equinox Industrial Co.	Posted - 2008.04.23 16:26:00 - [84] Originally by: Midas Man so SCM are better in most situations. The only time I think a CCC is useful is for capitals needing to get to a set % to jump. A situation I was ignorant of due to not using them. If someone is fitting for permatank in a BS then they have bigger problems if they require an extra 2.2cap/sec to make the permatank tight come on what is that negligable amount going to run? And then my assuption of cost is valid as the only reason to go for a CCC over a SCM is price. OMG the logic here is staggering... Translation: It's better to use SCMs because they ONLY recharge 2.2 cap/sec slower than CCCs, and are ONLY 5 million more isk per unit. /me yanks out my checkbook ---- What part of "shorn't" do you not understand?
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.04.23 16:46:00 - [85] Originally by: Kusha'an Originally by: Midas Man so SCM are better in most situations. The only time I think a CCC is useful is for capitals needing to get to a set % to jump. A situation I was ignorant of due to not using them. If someone is fitting for permatank in a BS then they have bigger problems if they require an extra 2.2cap/sec to make the permatank tight come on what is that negligable amount going to run? And then my assuption of cost is valid as the only reason to go for a CCC over a SCM is price. OMG the logic here is staggering... Translation: It's better to use SCMs because they ONLY recharge 2.2 cap/sec slower than CCCs, and are ONLY 5 million more isk per unit. /me yanks out my checkbook Translation: It's better to use SCMs because they ONLY recharge 2.2 cap/sec slower than CCCs, and are ONLY 5 million more isk per unit. And for that ONLY 5 million you get 15% boost to capacity. Is more what i was saying. Its quite easy to make statements about writing that don't resemble what the author intended by missing out the odd word here and there. What you did was quote a post I gave in answer to another and hence didn't see the full meaning in the logic.
Mose Eisley Caldari Carnival of the Damned	Posted - 2008.04.23 16:59:00 - [86] All of my PvE setups are cap stable (most of them just barely) with 3 CCC rigs. Even if they were cap stable with SMC rigs, the extra cap capacity is useless to me for PvE 98% of the time. The 60 mil I save from buying 3 CCCs vs 3 SMC is useful 100% of the time (14 mil for CCC, 33 mil for SMC in Jita). As far as PvP goes, I don't use either. I think the OP is just ****ed because he put 50 SMC rigs up for sale and no one is buying them.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.04.23 17:07:00 - [87] At the end of the day, having extra cap is only useful in short fights. E.g. PvP. And it's useful there. But ... actually you're typically better off using a cap booster, and fitting something _other_ than cap rigs to your ship at that point. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Weeka Amarr Tetragrammaton	Posted - 2008.04.23 18:54:00 - [88] Edited by: Weeka on 23/04/2008 18:57:27 Originally by: Durzel Base ship cap: 7422 1 x SMC II, 2 x SMC I - Total cap: 11779, Recharge time: 866.2 secs, Peak recharge: 38.2 1 x CCC II, 2 x CCC I - Total cap: 7422, Recharge time: 500.6 secs, Peak recharge: 37.1 That's wrong. Total cap: 11779, Recharge time: 866.2 secs, nets 11779/866.2 base recharge : 13,6 Total cap: 7422, Recharge time: 500.6 secs, nets 7422/500.6 base recharge : 14,8 Dunno where you screwed up, but you did. On topic .. CCC >> SMC in 99.9% of the cases .. midas, just take it like a man, you are wrong here.
Scout McAlt	Posted - 2008.04.23 19:04:00 - [89] Edited by: Scout McAlt on 23/04/2008 19:04:21 Originally by: Midas Man Translation: It's better to use SCMs because they ONLY recharge 2.2 cap/sec slower than CCCs, and are ONLY 5 million more isk per unit. And for that ONLY 5 million you get 15% boost to capacity. It is only 2.2 in a empty setup that is unuseable. Who flys ships with no modules and just rigs? What about the other extreme? Apoc with 7 cap relays and 4 cap rechargers generates 771 capacitor a second peak with CCC rigs. The same apoc with SMC generates 720 capacitor per second with SMC's. So it is not 2.2, if we follow your logic, its actualy 51 capacitor a second!!!!!!!!! So thanks for your logic proving ccc's do 51 capacitor a second more during peak usage. Is 51 Capacitor nothing? Secondly, can anyone give me a real setup for any ship that is better with SMC insted of other rigs? SMC's are pretty useless rigs.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.04.23 19:45:00 - [90] Originally by: Weeka Dunno where you screwed up, but you did. off-topic: multiply by 2.4 for optimal numbers. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony

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