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Local is essential for War! Period!

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Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:38:00 - [31] Originally by: Commander Criton Yep i see its boring but the idea is to make roles more important and to pro-long the fights so maybe a new type of probe that picks up ships registry information? giving you the ship owner which in turn gives you their corp info etc. Then when such a probe is picked up on scan (as every decent PvPer mashes) everyone docks up and effectively everyone is now invisible, that will be a war to remember.
Ringo Jeicha Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:40:00 - [32] Edited by: Ringo Jeicha on 27/04/2008 13:41:18 Quote: Lol! You guys better pray that any changes made are made from arguments made by PvPers, or you guys are screwed too. This is a direct challenge on war by carebears, put simply. If local is removed and something put in its place that doesn't atleast do the job as well as local, then war is over. No, war will be more difficult than learning a monkey to do f1-f8.
Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:42:00 - [33] Originally by: Ringo Jeicha You were owned once by looking at an alts bio and concluding he/she/it is a carebear, now stfu, carebear. In real-life, will the invading country tell the invaded country with how many men and equipment they will come? Post with your mains you cowards! ...plus Intel will provide that info and btw EVE != RL!
Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:43:00 - [34] Originally by: Ringo Jeicha No, war will be more difficult than learning a monkey to do f1-f8. Nice carebear quote again. Coming straight from SWA!
Ringo Jeicha Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:45:00 - [35] Originally by: Kale Kold Originally by: Ringo Jeicha No, war will be more difficult than learning a monkey to do f1-f8. Nice carebear quote again. Coming straight from SWA! And again you seem to fail in understanding the concept of alts.
Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:45:00 - [36] Originally by: Ringo Jeicha Originally by: Kale Kold Originally by: Ringo Jeicha No, war will be more difficult than learning a monkey to do f1-f8. Nice carebear quote again. Coming straight from SWA! And again you seem to fail in understanding the concept of alts. And again you fail to understand the concept of coward!
Ringo Jeicha Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:46:00 - [37] Originally by: Kale Kold Originally by: Ringo Jeicha You were owned once by looking at an alts bio and concluding he/she/it is a carebear, now stfu, carebear. In real-life, will the invading country tell the invaded country with how many men and equipment they will come? Post with your mains you cowards! ...plus Intel will provide that info and btw EVE != RL! Too bad it isnt, it would have scared you to ever join eve in the first place
Ringo Jeicha Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:46:00 - [38] Originally by: Kale Kold Originally by: Ringo Jeicha Originally by: Kale Kold Originally by: Ringo Jeicha No, war will be more difficult than learning a monkey to do f1-f8. Nice carebear quote again. Coming straight from SWA! And again you seem to fail in understanding the concept of alts. And again you fail to understand the concept of coward! Pff you fail
Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:48:00 - [39] Edited by: Kale Kold on 27/04/2008 13:48:06 Originally by: Ringo Jeicha You fail! Why the need to go personal? ad hominem and post with ur main!
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:49:00 - [40] Sometimes I just minimize local for days at a time, and still blow up stuff. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Ringo Jeicha Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:50:00 - [41] Edited by: Ringo Jeicha on 27/04/2008 13:54:12 Edited by: Ringo Jeicha on 27/04/2008 13:52:16 Edited by: Ringo Jeicha on 27/04/2008 13:51:46 Edited by: Ringo Jeicha on 27/04/2008 13:51:02 Originally by: Kale Kold Edited by: Kale Kold on 27/04/2008 13:48:06 Originally by: Ringo Jeicha You fail! Why the need to go personal? ad hominem and post with ur main! I simply refuse to see the need! So you can wardec my corp who has really nothing to do with my opinion? How lame can one get, and yes i am getting personal now And in any case, a discussion works simple, you make a statement, and you provide proof. So far I haven't seen any elegible proof besides a whine that it will cost you time. I do however support the need of an active radar, which is directly dependent of the ship's sensor strenght
Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:56:00 - [42] Originally by: Ringo Jeicha And in any case, a discussion works simple, you make a statement, and you provide proof. So far I haven't seen any elegible proof besides a whine that it will cost you time. For a start, im -10.0 im not going anywhere but lowsec. Second, it doesn't bother me if Local goes really, 'cos i'm a lowsec pirate/gatecamper i kill anything that comes through. I am fighting for PvP as a whole, Local being replaced is Trammel all over again!
Freya Runestone Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:59:00 - [43] Originally by: Kale Kold Edited by: Kale Kold on 27/04/2008 12:44:12 Originally by: Patch86 It has been said time and time again: Local is too powerful. I'm sorry i can't see your argument, because whatever replaces local, it will have to have the same functionality of being able to see who is in a system and what standings they have to you because these are essential for war, which defeats the object of making a change. It's not essential for war. It's only "essential" because you're relying 100% on it currently. Which coincidentally is also the exact reason it's too powerful. Local is an effortless intelligence tool. Requires no skill (player skill, not a game-skill) to use, and has no flaws or risks involved. It should be replaced by something, obviously, but moving around unseen should also be possible. And right now it just isn't.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.04.27 13:59:00 - [44] Naw, it's not essential. Let me put it in a way you geeks might grasp. Let's say you're playing World of Warcraft. Your level 83 Chaos Dwarf Semenweaver enters Elwynn Forest. Does he immediately see every hostile in the zone? No, he sees some trees and sheep. He's gotta run around and explore a bit if he wants to find someone to gank. Are they hiding behind that tree? Are they in the inn? You get my drift. Now you have Eve. There's way less locations to be in an average system, than there are potential locations in Elwynn Forest. Yet somehow, the moment we enter Eve's version of a zone, we are immediately aware of everyone in the zone. You've just taken away the thrill of the hunt. Now there's no need to check behind that tree, or visit the inn. You've also taken away surprise. Forgot to use your scanner and warped into a gatecamp? Oops!
Poht Minmatar Taurus Inc	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:05:00 - [45] Originally by: Kale Kold Originally by: Ringo Jeicha And in any case, a discussion works simple, you make a statement, and you provide proof. So far I haven't seen any elegible proof besides a whine that it will cost you time. For a start, im -10.0 im not going anywhere but lowsec. Second, it doesn't bother me if Local goes really, 'cos i'm a lowsec pirate/gatecamper i kill anything that comes through. I am fighting for PvP as a whole, Local being replaced is Trammel all over again! Ahhh,,, which means you won't be able to safespot when big gangs travel through your gatecamp! OK I get it, you want local as a sa***uard for your own hide!
Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:07:00 - [46] Edited by: Kale Kold on 27/04/2008 14:07:27 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Naw, it's not essential. Let me put it in a way you geeks might grasp. Let's say you're playing World of Warcraft. Your level 83 Chaos Dwarf Semenweaver enters Elwynn Forest. Does he immediately see every hostile in the zone? No, he sees some trees and sheep. He's gotta run around and explore a bit if he wants to find someone to gank. Are they hiding behind that tree? Are they in the inn? You get my drift. Now you have Eve. There's way less locations to be in an average system, than there are potential locations in Elwynn Forest. Yet somehow, the moment we enter Eve's version of a zone, we are immediately aware of everyone in the zone. You've just taken away the thrill of the hunt. Now there's no need to check behind that tree, or visit the inn. You've also taken away surprise. Forgot to use your scanner and warped into a gatecamp? Oops! Elwynn Forest = few hundred meters square? Any EVE system = 10-100AU square? Big difference! WOW = medieval times? EVE = Uber hi-tech? Would people really not know whos in a system with (record keeping?) gates? Finding people really is the first step in any war, the second is formulating a strategy based on who's there/their capabilities, etc to successfully defeat that force. But if you can't find them or know what their capabilities are how you gonna defeat them?
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:09:00 - [47] If local goes how would that affect logon traps? Assume a fleet is waiting to be logged on at first contact, can they really be sure another fleet isn't hiding in the system already if they're not on themselves scanning every corner of it? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:09:00 - [48] Originally by: Kale Kold Local is essential for War! Period! No it isn't. War worked just fine before standings in local appeared. ...
Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:15:00 - [49] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Kale Kold Local is essential for War! Period! No it isn't. War worked just fine before standings in local appeared. Do you really want to take a step backward?
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:16:00 - [50] Originally by: Kale Kold Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Kale Kold Local is essential for War! Period! No it isn't. War worked just fine before standings in local appeared. Do you really want to take a step backward? Do you know why standings in local appeared in the first place? ...
Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:18:00 - [51] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Do you know why standings in local appeared in the first place? Enlighten me.
TimGascoigne	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:20:00 - [52] Edited by: TimGascoigne on 27/04/2008 14:23:21 Originally by: Patch86 It has been said time and time again: Local is too powerful. Simply removing local would leave a gaping hole and make many professions unplayable. Local needs to be removed and replaced with an integrated, effective, realistic, but inherently limited tool. The Jury is still out on what exactly that replacement should be... oh how is local to powerful? I am in 0.0 all the time and every four seconds I have to check local otherwise I will lose my ship. Seriously you have to look through the entire channel as often as an airport security desk has to scan luggage. Why do people and CCP think that it is too easy to use local it becomes a second in game job especially if you're in systems which have 40+ in them and are 0.0 trade hubs. Getting back to the OP he mentioned that local needs to be replaced with something similar he did not specifically rule out removing local. Although it begs the question if you're going to replace local with something similar why bother at all you just risk damaging gameplay and creating more bugs eve is complicated enough as it is. Let's just have something simple that works like local. If there was a new tool that would mean even less space for me to watch a fight. I don't know how many people in this thread have noticed that the majority of your screen is filled up by things like overview and chat channels and ship interface. You don't actually see that much of space any more especially if you're on a 17 inch screen. Or even better lets..... wait for it...... not change anything and just stop changing things
Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:24:00 - [53] Originally by: TimGascoigne Edited by: TimGascoigne on 27/04/2008 14:21:04 Originally by: Patch86 It has been said time and time again: Local is too powerful. Simply removing local would leave a gaping hole and make many professions unplayable. Local needs to be removed and replaced with an integrated, effective, realistic, but inherently limited tool. The Jury is still out on what exactly that replacement should be... oh how is local to powerful? I am in 0.0 all the time and every four seconds I have to check local otherwise I will lose my ship. Seriously you have to look through the entire channel as often as an airport security desk has to scan luggage. Why do people and CCP think that it is too easy to use local it becomes a second in game job especially if you're in systems which have 40+ in them and are 0.0 trade hubs. Getting back to the OP he mentioned that local needs to be replaced with something similar he did not specifically rule out removing local. Although it begs the question if you're going to replace local with something similar why bother at all you just risk damaging gameplay and creating more bugs eve is complicated enough as it is. Let's just have something simple that works like local. If there was a new tool that would mean even less space for me to watch a fight. I don't know how many people in this thread have noticed that the majority of your screen is filled up by things like overview and chat channels and ship interface. You don't actually see that much of space any more especially if you're on a 17 inch screen. Or even better lets..... wait for it...... not change anything and just stop changing things this This is exactly my point. Nobody really has a case for removing or even changing Local. Without it more people are going to get very annoyed if something isn't available as a replacement which does the same thing. And then you ask yourself why bother changing it at all?
TimGascoigne	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:27:00 - [54] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Kale Kold Local is essential for War! Period! No it isn't. War worked just fine before standings in local appeared. yes I guess war will work just fine because you wouldn't be able to have effective scouts and the alternative is to bring all of your friends and move as a blob all the time which would cause another problem. I think you can guess what that is.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:29:00 - [55] Troll thread is full of troll. Throws over a troll pelt, grabs a femur and does the troll dance -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:32:00 - [56] Edited by: Kale Kold on 27/04/2008 14:32:29 Originally by: Abrazzar Troll thread is full of troll. Throws over a troll pelt, grabs a femur and does the troll dance We are trolling? why? Because we don't agree with carebears and we care about game balance and not wasting so much time doing long winded, boring shift work on poorly implemented systems?
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:36:00 - [57] Originally by: Kale Kold Originally by: Rawr Cristina Do you know why standings in local appeared in the first place? Enlighten me. Someone had managed to hack the client through whatever means to display standings in local. I can only assume CCP had no way of detecting who was doing it, or preventing it - the only way to even the field was to give everyone standings in local. CCP has already stated that they didn't intend local to be the overpowered intel tool it currently is. People generally think it's essential to the game ATM because they're so used to it they can't imagine other ways to find people. Yes, it would need a replacement - whether that be an active, limited-range scanner, ability to detect the presence of cloaked ships (perhaps with a module), remotely accessible locator agents, or whatever. ...
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:38:00 - [58] Originally by: Kale Kold Elwynn Forest = few hundred meters square? Any EVE system = 10-100AU square? Big difference! WOW = medieval times? EVE = Uber hi-tech? Would people really not know whos in a system with (record keeping?) gates? Uhhh... Since you seem to be roleplaying a justification, I'll roleplay one back at you. How would the gate maintenance personnel react when they released local information to capsuleers, who promptly used it to conduct a space massacre? Remember, the guys working the gates are normal humans, not pod captains, they still have regard for the six thousand human lives aboard every battleship that dies as a result of their local logging. I think they'd start withholding that information, not wanting to have the blood of hundreds of thousands on their hands ;)
Kale Kold Caldari Vicious Little Killers	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:42:00 - [59] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Kale Kold Elwynn Forest = few hundred meters square? Any EVE system = 10-100AU square? Big difference! WOW = medieval times? EVE = Uber hi-tech? Would people really not know whos in a system with (record keeping?) gates? Uhhh... Since you seem to be roleplaying a justification, I'll roleplay one back at you. How would the gate maintenance personnel react when they released local information to capsuleers, who promptly used it to conduct a space massacre? Remember, the guys working the gates are normal humans, not pod captains, they still have regard for the six thousand human lives aboard every battleship that dies as a result of their local logging. I think they'd start withholding that information, not wanting to have the blood of hundreds of thousands on their hands ;) Even if their faction was the victor? But enough of this RP BS!
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2008.04.27 14:46:00 - [60] Edited by: northwesten on 27/04/2008 14:49:25 Originally by: Kale Kold Originally by: northwesten This thread fails and a troll! move along now Oh not get rid of local just make it like alliance chat! when someone speak they appear. If they don't then stay hidden. That easy If you really need local then maybe work on your skills on getting intel than been a lazy ... Again coming from a carebear mining corp who have no experience of PvP. no pvp experiance? LMAO dude you dont know me do you? lol I been playing this game for 4 years and how about you look at my history before making a fool of your self! thank and gd bye! mm looked at your history and way you talk here i am woundering how much did you buy this toon for? Trinity Corporate Services

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