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[CSM Candidate] Jade Constantine

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Gorobom	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:19:00 - [391] Originally by: Dingi223 Originally by: Gorobom My own post answered that, using a bit of logic and common sense. Then that same logic and common sense clearly shows why your statement about combining the votes is false. Why make a statement, then use your own common logic and sense to discredit it? What You're posting just for the sake of arguing with someone, right?
Gunner Dark	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:21:00 - [392] This is the whole reason only 11% of the player base voted in one easy thread. Goons being goons : check Alliance agendas : check Power trips : check Its good to know CCP will never ever give you guys any real power.
Trupplupagus Settling Tank	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:22:00 - [393] Originally by: Gunner Dark This is the whole reason only 11% of the player base voted in one easy thread. Goons being goons : check Alliance agendas : check Power trips : check Its good to know CCP will never ever give you guys any real power. Amen
LASER WATCHER GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:23:00 - [394] Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn This is how democracy works - candidates are evaluated on the strength of their beliefs and principles by each individual and voted for accordingly. _____
Adrimar Absolutely No Retreat Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:24:00 - [395] Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn Congratulations Jade. The voting was done democratically. In this democratic election, Goonswarm managed to get two seats out of the nine, but a larger proportion of players expressed support for alternative ways of looking at the game mechanics. What this says to me is that while Goonswarm may consider themselves expert on all aspects of play (except, as noted above, 'carebears'), the rest of the player base don't hold the same opinion. snip Whoa there! Jade got a grand total of approx. 1% of the total eligible vote. To say that "the rest of the player base" is kinda stretching it, don't you think? Not that I agree with how Goonswarm is doing this, but please remember that Jade did not win this by a huge landslide and by far does not represent the general eve population. Jade represents around 1% of the eve population.
Gorobom	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:25:00 - [396] Originally by: Adrimar Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn Congratulations Jade. The voting was done democratically. In this democratic election, Goonswarm managed to get two seats out of the nine, but a larger proportion of players expressed support for alternative ways of looking at the game mechanics. What this says to me is that while Goonswarm may consider themselves expert on all aspects of play (except, as noted above, 'carebears'), the rest of the player base don't hold the same opinion. snip Whoa there! Jade got a grand total of approx. 1% of the total eligible vote. To say that "the rest of the player base" is kinda stretching it, don't you think? Not that I agree with how Goonswarm is doing this, but please remember that Jade did not win this by a huge landslide and by far does not represent the general eve population. Jade represents around 1% of the eve population. Moreover, a larger % voted for Goonswarm than for Jade Constantine.
Sunwillow Auryn	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:26:00 - [397] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON The voting's over. I don't have to pretend anything anymore. Sorry - I posted my thing above and then went back to read responses done while i was typing it and just HAD to comment when I read this... So, you don't have to pretend now the voting is over? What exactly were you pretending to do, or be, during the run up to voting?
Samuel Harrow	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:27:00 - [398] God this is happening even faster and better than i'd hoped! No more CAOD for me, this kicks the **** out of it :D
Sunwillow Auryn	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:29:00 - [399] Originally by: Gorobom Moreover, a larger % voted for Goonswarm than for Jade Constantine. Alternatively, you could think of it as more people voted for someone, anyone other than Goonswarm, than voted for them. It's all semantics.
Idaeus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:31:00 - [400] Edited by: Idaeus on 22/05/2008 16:32:37 Originally by: Dingi223 And their posting in this thread has probably just simply cemented a large portion of that player base to continue supporting alternative candidates. I love this. Just because I'm an SA member and a member of GoonSwarm I'm automatically some hooligan when I attempt to point out blatant discrimination in an elected representative of the player base of which I and my fellow goons are a part. Honestly it doesn't surprise me when this is the very attitude that met us when we first entered this game. Right from the start we were typecast and marginalized. We came here to play and enjoy the game, and we're in GoonFleet because we like playing with other goons (we LOVE to help newbees get started and jumpstart their enjoyment of the game instead of having them languish in empire). We have some extremely intelligent and talented individuals from many diverse backgrounds and we have a vested interest in improving the game we often enjoy, and the things we make to improve our enjoyment of the game end up helping the EVE community as a whole. EVEmon is an excellent example of this. But because we're goons automatically makes us hooligans.
Skogen Gump	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:34:00 - [401] Originally by: Idaeus But because we're goons automatically makes us hooligoons. ^Fixed that for you
Yggdrassill Yeltsin The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:36:00 - [402] Originally by: Idaeus Edited by: Idaeus on 22/05/2008 16:32:37 Originally by: Dingi223 And their posting in this thread has probably just simply cemented a large portion of that player base to continue supporting alternative candidates. I love this. Just because I'm an SA member and a member of GoonSwarm I'm automatically some hooligan when I attempt to point out blatant discrimination in an elected representative of the player base of which I and my fellow goons are a part. Honestly it doesn't surprise me when this is the very attitude that met us when we first entered this game. Right from the start we were typecast and marginalized. We came here to play and enjoy the game, and we're in GoonFleet because we like playing with other goons (we LOVE to help newbees get started and jumpstart their enjoyment of the game instead of having them languish in empire). We have some extremely intelligent and talented individuals from many diverse backgrounds and we have a vested interest in improving the game we often enjoy, and the things we make to improve our enjoyment of the game end up helping the EVE community as a whole. EVEmon is an excellent example of this. But because we're goons automatically makes us hooligans. I'm predicting a lot of long responses that basically say "Yes, that's right- also you deserve this and it's awesome."
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:37:00 - [403] Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn Originally by: Darius JOHNSON The voting's over. I don't have to pretend anything anymore. Sorry - I posted my thing above and then went back to read responses done while i was typing it and just HAD to comment when I read this... So, you don't have to pretend now the voting is over? What exactly were you pretending to do, or be, during the run up to voting? That's the point. There's nothing to be gained by pretending anything. Yet here I am the same person I was the entire time. I don't HAVE to pretend anything at this point. I was elected. That doesn't in any way insinuate that I ever HAVE pretended anything as much as you'd like to insinuate so. I've been open and honest the entire time. The same cannot be said for others.
Skut Farkuss	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:50:00 - [404] Edited by: Skut Farkuss on 22/05/2008 16:50:45 Jade, I don't give a damn whether you actually step down or not, but I think we deserve an answer about whether you said you would, and if you did, why you are choosing not to. I voted for you, though I didn't follow much of the campaigning other than threads. Thanks!
Idaeus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:03:00 - [405] Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin I'm predicting a lot of long responses that basically say "Yes, that's right- also you deserve this and it's awesome." I know, and it's one of the many things that really makes it hard to try and play nice with the EVE community.
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:07:00 - [406] Originally by: Idaeus Edited by: Idaeus on 22/05/2008 16:32:37 Originally by: Dingi223 And their posting in this thread has probably just simply cemented a large portion of that player base to continue supporting alternative candidates. I love this. Just because I'm an SA member and a member of GoonSwarm I'm automatically some hooligan when I attempt to point out blatant discrimination in an elected representative of the player base of which I and my fellow goons are a part. Honestly it doesn't surprise me when this is the very attitude that met us when we first entered this game. Right from the start we were typecast and marginalized. We came here to play and enjoy the game, and we're in GoonFleet because we like playing with other goons (we LOVE to help newbees get started and jumpstart their enjoyment of the game instead of having them languish in empire). We have some extremely intelligent and talented individuals from many diverse backgrounds and we have a vested interest in improving the game we often enjoy, and the things we make to improve our enjoyment of the game end up helping the EVE community as a whole. EVEmon is an excellent example of this. But because we're goons automatically makes us hooligans. This made me laugh. Really, it did. You (Goonswarm) have worked VERY HARD...VERY VERY HARD to become hated in Eve. You've gone out of your way, doing everything possible to alienate the player base, spam every possible section of the forums with pointless threads; at one point during a weekend, fully two pages of GD were individual threads about the sex appeal of various Goon members posted by themselves / alts. And you have the gall to say "discriminated against because of my play style.... If your "walking" style is to stomp on the foot of everyone you pass, you're going to attract attention. Same thing in Eve - I don't know if you're being discriminated against, but if you are, its because you deserve it. You don't believe in live and let live. You don't bring anything to a conversation or debate. There is no such thing as "mutual respect" in a Goon's vocabulary. And you've worked VERY HARD to establish this image of yourselves. How can you now complain that all your hard work is being rewarded?
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:10:00 - [407] Originally by: Curzon Dax Originally by: Idaeus Edited by: Idaeus on 22/05/2008 16:32:37 Originally by: Dingi223 And their posting in this thread has probably just simply cemented a large portion of that player base to continue supporting alternative candidates. I love this. Just because I'm an SA member and a member of GoonSwarm I'm automatically some hooligan when I attempt to point out blatant discrimination in an elected representative of the player base of which I and my fellow goons are a part. Honestly it doesn't surprise me when this is the very attitude that met us when we first entered this game. Right from the start we were typecast and marginalized. We came here to play and enjoy the game, and we're in GoonFleet because we like playing with other goons (we LOVE to help newbees get started and jumpstart their enjoyment of the game instead of having them languish in empire). We have some extremely intelligent and talented individuals from many diverse backgrounds and we have a vested interest in improving the game we often enjoy, and the things we make to improve our enjoyment of the game end up helping the EVE community as a whole. EVEmon is an excellent example of this. But because we're goons automatically makes us hooligans. This made me laugh. Really, it did. You (Goonswarm) have worked VERY HARD...VERY VERY HARD to become hated in Eve. You've gone out of your way, doing everything possible to alienate the player base, spam every possible section of the forums with pointless threads; at one point during a weekend, fully two pages of GD were individual threads about the sex appeal of various Goon members posted by themselves / alts. And you have the gall to say "discriminated against because of my play style.... If your "walking" style is to stomp on the foot of everyone you pass, you're going to attract attention. Same thing in Eve - I don't know if you're being discriminated against, but if you are, its because you deserve it. You don't believe in live and let live. You don't bring anything to a conversation or debate. There is no such thing as "mutual respect" in a Goon's vocabulary. And you've worked VERY HARD to establish this image of yourselves. How can you now complain that all your hard work is being rewarded? your post is ruining my eve experience see, I can do it too
Dingi223	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:24:00 - [408] Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin I'm predicting a lot of long responses that basically say "Yes, that's right- also you deserve this and it's awesome." I'm not saying you deserve it or that it is awesome. However, I do believe you are right. Goonswarm have played the game to enjoy it, however, that method of playing the game has also been to ruin it for others. Now, I enjoy the fact that EVE allows this, but it doesn't mean I need to respect Goonswarm for it's actions. It's not that it's deserving, or that it's awesome, it's just the way some people of the community views Goonswarm. And to reply to Darius, yes, that is my opinion. And yes, Goons will be Goons for a long time. That is part of the problem, people didn't enjoy Goons during Jihadswarm, the mindless posting of dribble, etc. Why would I want Goons on the CSM after that display? And yes, it's my opinion.
Kingwood Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Star Buccaneers	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:26:00 - [409] Welp, political bickering already. Awesome. This is a promising start. To add my 2 cents: Goons are for the most part more intelligent and mature than the rest of the Eve playerbase, and they take this game as serious as anyone else. (That's why I left, because I enjoy****ging around in lowsec more than fleet ops). While I've never put any weight on this CSM farce, I'd rather have Goons in charge than rambling buffoons like Jade Constantine. Also, el oh el at Darius being this eloquent and rhetorically competent after having listened to the SotG speech.
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:29:00 - [410] Originally by: Dingi223 Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin I'm predicting a lot of long responses that basically say "Yes, that's right- also you deserve this and it's awesome." I'm not saying you deserve it or that it is awesome. However, I do believe you are right. Goonswarm have played the game to enjoy it, however, that method of playing the game has also been to ruin it for others. Now, I enjoy the fact that EVE allows this, but it doesn't mean I need to respect Goonswarm for it's actions. It's not that it's deserving, or that it's awesome, it's just the way some people of the community views Goonswarm. And to reply to Darius, yes, that is my opinion. And yes, Goons will be Goons for a long time. That is part of the problem, people didn't enjoy Goons during Jihadswarm, the mindless posting of dribble, etc. Why would I want Goons on the CSM after that display? And yes, it's my opinion. The same reason I thought empire dwellers should be on the CSM? Difference of opinion. If the council was staffed solely by Goons that'd be pretty stupid. If you want my opinion to counter what you said regarding jihadswarm check my thread. I've already gone over it a thousand times. Goons aren't to blame for miners choosing to not pay attention and think they were mining in abject safety. Now they know better. What I find most disturbing is the insinuation that the game should somehow be altered because of it.
Tolis Irithel Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:35:00 - [411] I'm way off-topic, but this thread's drifted in any case. Tragically, a significant portion of the CSM-related threads have become some kind of entrenched battleground, where those wishing to express views are dissuaded by the potential for unwarranted hostility. I thought for quite a while before posting this, and hopefully, it isn't about to happen to me... This shouldn't be about Goonswarm vs. insert name for conglomerate of others, but about how the game can be improved for everybody. I, for one, voted with this in mind (1 vote went to Jade, the other to Serenity, as I believed these were the best two people to represent the playerbase. Right or wrong, it was an informed decision, and I dislike being categorised as stupid for this in certain threads.) I agree entirely with the Goonswarm poster above who said that they have made positive contributions to the game; i have no first-hand experience of negative contributions, but I don't doubt these exist either. By playing, we make waves, and because of the highly PvP oriented nature of EVE, this means there will be those negatively and positively affected by each of us, to some degree. The unfortunate thing is, and I hope that the more reasonable members of GoonSwarm can see this, is that certain people here, non-goons and goons alike, through their postings here and in the Assembly area, are making proper discussion of issues harder, and potentially harming the ability of others to get legitimate points across. This is not a personal attack on any person, group or alliance, and it's not aimed at any entity, either. It's a general call to the more reasonably-minded people here to continue their constructive postings, and to the...more...divisive, to consider whether what they're doing is really in the spirit of the CSM, or in the interests of the game. I hope this is taken in the spirit it's intended.
Dingi223	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:49:00 - [412] Edited by: Dingi223 on 22/05/2008 17:51:37 Originally by: Darius JOHNSON The same reason I thought empire dwellers should be on the CSM? Difference of opinion. If the council was staffed solely by Goons that'd be pretty stupid. If you want my opinion to counter what you said regarding jihadswarm check my thread. I've already gone over it a thousand times. Goons aren't to blame for miners choosing to not pay attention and think they were mining in abject safety. Now they know better. What I find most disturbing is the insinuation that the game should somehow be altered because of it. Please note, I clearly indicated that I like EVE in it's ability to do exactly what Goonswarm did. At no time have I indicated that the game should be altered because of it. I have no problem with Goons being on the council, I appreciate the need for diversity. Even though I may not like Goons, they can obviously bring items to the table for consideration. What I find disturbing is the needless posts of Goonswarm members in this thread, spamming forth drivel about Jade, when they have their representatives on the CSM to voice their concerns. I appreciate that they may not like Jade, big deal, I don't like Goonswarm. It's opinions. I 100% agree with your past post: get on with it and do whatever the CSM is meant to do.
Idaeus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:50:00 - [413] Edited by: Idaeus on 22/05/2008 17:51:34 Originally by: Tolis Irithel This shouldn't be about Goonswarm vs. insert name for conglomerate of others, but about how the game can be improved for everybody. All of our (read: GoonSwarm) candidates entered this with that in mind. There are goons involved in every aspect of this game, and while it would be remiss to say that our candidates aren't looking out for our interests it would be inaccurate to say that our interests don't mirror those of a considerable portion of the EVE community. Darius JOHNSON and Bane Glorious aren't limiting their thoughts to one aspect of the game, and they've been very vocal about their broad point of view. They have also publicly stated the areas that they are weak in, which most CSM members have not done.
Tolis Irithel Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:56:00 - [414] Idaeus, I'm perfectly happy with two of the people representing me being Darius and Bane; I have no reason to believe, at this time, that they will do any worse or better a job than anyone else, including Jade as chairman; everyone is untested at this time, and I wish them the best of success in aiding CCP in improving EVE. As I said, I was explicitly not looking to name names; I don't believe that would be constructive.
Idaeus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:59:00 - [415] Oh, I know that. I was just taking a point from your post and pointing out that that we're actually thinking about the EVE community as a whole and not just ourselves which is what many of our detractors are claiming we're doing.
Tolis Irithel Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.22 18:01:00 - [416] All too true, and because I've thoroughly read most of the posts, and all bar a handful of the CSM candidates' posted opinions, I can look past the current state of these CSM forums. The unfortunate part is, I'm concerned their legitimate points are being drowned out.
Myk Taison GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 19:45:00 - [417] Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn Basically - go by the FIFO principle - "Fit in, or ... go away." [...] This is how democracy works I don't think you "get" democracy.
Waterfowl Democracy The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 19:57:00 - [418] Posting in a thread about democracy
Skut Farkuss	Posted - 2008.05.22 22:09:00 - [419] Originally by: Skut Farkuss Edited by: Skut Farkuss on 22/05/2008 16:59:36 Edited by: Skut Farkuss on 22/05/2008 16:50:45 Jade, I don't give a damn whether you actually step down or not, but I think we deserve an answer about whether you said you would, and if you did, why you are choosing not to. I voted for you, though I didn't follow much of the campaigning other than threads. Thanks! E: I'm heading off to work, so I'll reply to any replies later, cheers all Friendly bump for new page
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.22 23:46:00 - [420] Edited by: Nyphur on 22/05/2008 23:47:49 Originally by: Gorobom You're being really, really delusional. Goons pointed out lot of mistakes in the game and CCP addressed them, just like other major alliances did. Even Goons who aren't in Goonswarm like Nyphur had a huge impact in the game. The same can't be said about Derelik Capital Constructions. WHO SUMMONS ME TO THIS THREAD? I DEMAND A SAC-RI-FICE Of the two Goonswarm CSMs, I've only seen one of them "in action" on the forums and that's Bane Glorius. The guy's smart, he has some good ideas and I'm sure he can adapt to fill the role of CSM pretty well. Whether they zerged the votes or not isn't the issue, judge each of them on their own merits and realise that goon or not, you could do a lot worse for CSM representatives than those chosen. A LOT worse. Initially I thought Jade would make a good chairman but it's starting to look like he's augmenting his role without talking to CCP about it and going on a bit of a power trip. The chairman is not a dictator, I'm pretty sure it's part of his job to ensure the smooth running of the council and I don't believe that's possible without treating all the council members equally. Something to keep in mind is that all of the CSMs including the chairman are accountable to CCP and I'd bet if someone is found to be abusing their role or not filling it well enough, they'd be out on their arse pretty sharpish. BTW, shouldn't someone at CCP be here to explain everything and guide the new CSMs? Have you all just been left alone with a 13-page PR document wondering what it is you have to do? Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.

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