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Why not embrace RMT and macros?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Chigun	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:05:00 - [1] CCP I have a question. Why not legitimize RMTs and macro mining? That way you could monitor and control it. You could sell ISK along with GTCs, thereby setting the price and controlling the effect on the economy. This would also allow you to moderately control the overall economy. Your customers would be protected from thieves, and you'd have more money. Seems like most players are opposed to RMTs, I just don't want to waste my money that way. I'm here to play a game, and I find it no fun to just buy the biggest ship. But why punish players for buying ISK when you can instead harness the wallets of those few to fund a better game for the rest of us? As for macros, control macro miners by opening the client up for UI mods and macros. By providing an internal scripting language you can control what commands are allowed, and more easily monitor for illegal macros. Besides it makes sense in the context of the universe. If I can have combat drones that will hunt down a target, why can't I program my ship to mine, or have my autopilot warp to 0? And you can control all of this by changing insurance payouts with negligence clauses, introducing Concord fines for certain actions, and using security rating for more then combat. People are doing these things to play the game differently, fix it not by taking away ISK or closing accounts. Fix it by changing the game, make these actions unprofitable and they will stop. And not that it will stop the trolls, but I've never bought ISK, I don't sell ISK, and I've never used a macro.
Recon Three 181st Legion	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:07:00 - [2] Uh.. __________
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:07:00 - [3] shakes head and walks out of thread -- Ralara / Ralarina "Tri's dead!" NO U
Darek Castigatus	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:11:00 - [4] so let me get this straight, they break the EULA, flout every rule CCP set up when this game was first released and **** off a vast majority of the player base on a daily basis and you want CCP to change the game to make it easier for them to do this? Making it easier does not equal having more control over it moron. Sheesh
Ishall Marvoni	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:11:00 - [5] There's already a legit way to buy isk, through GTCs. Adding another would just be redundent, and encouraging macro'ers just further damages the economy.
Lord Haur Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:14:00 - [6] quick answer: no. This would not solve RMT/macros. Selling ISK legally will not prevent illegal ISK sellers, it will just harm their profits because they have to undercut CCP's exchange rate to get any sales. If CCP reduces their prices, this continues until the ISK sellers become profitable, but then what? we have a legal influx of ISK at cheaper prices than current ISK sellers, and when CCP tries to increase the price or remove it, we get huge threadnaughts, and some enterprising person will start selling ISK illegally, undercutting CCP. as for why can't you program your ship to mine? that's because you ARE your ship from a RP perspective, so there isn't anything that allows your ship to mine and you to do something else that isn't currently possible. Why would you want to automate mining when you can't leave the ship? /end rant. This is a bad idea.
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:17:00 - [7] So they can infinetly fuel a jihad swarm like organization with near endless options of isk to burn cheaply, or throwing the course of an entire war off by somong buying 120 billion (2 titians) isk removed in the other thread or even worse and ultimatly inflation problems, you get rampant RMT you get rampant isk you get rampant isk the value of isk is destroyed, currently we are suffereing from deflation, the effect of increased buying power of isk, which is healthier for new players, bad news for those whom been around for a long while. How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Cruthensis Gallente Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:17:00 - [8] Obvious ISK buyer's alt is obvious. Also: inflation 1. Buy Vexor 2. Fit for Gank 3. Suicide ISK farmer 4. Grind sec 5. see 1.
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:21:00 - [9] Words cannot express what I am feeling now and if I did express them, I am sure I would be banned for using exesive foul laungauge.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:24:00 - [10] Originally by: Chigun CCP I have a question. Why not legitimize RMTs and macro mining? That way you could monitor and control it. You could sell ISK along with GTCs, thereby setting the price and controlling the effect on the economy. This would also allow you to moderately control the overall economy. Your customers would be protected from thieves, and you'd have more money. Seems like most players are opposed to RMTs, I just don't want to waste my money that way. I'm here to play a game, and I find it no fun to just buy the biggest ship. But why punish players for buying ISK when you can instead harness the wallets of those few to fund a better game for the rest of us? As for macros, control macro miners by opening the client up for UI mods and macros. By providing an internal scripting language you can control what commands are allowed, and more easily monitor for illegal macros. Besides it makes sense in the context of the universe. If I can have combat drones that will hunt down a target, why can't I program my ship to mine, or have my autopilot warp to 0? And you can control all of this by changing insurance payouts with negligence clauses, introducing Concord fines for certain actions, and using security rating for more then combat. People are doing these things to play the game differently, fix it not by taking away ISK or closing accounts. Fix it by changing the game, make these actions unprofitable and they will stop. And not that it will stop the trolls, but I've never bought ISK, I don't sell ISK, and I've never used a macro. GTFO. Seriously. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

CCP Prism X C C P	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:32:00 - [11] Yeah, and while we're at it we can create a controlled environment around account hacking and credit card fraud and all the other EULA breaches.. because it's always preferable to assist criminals towards the way you want them to be breaking the law rather than actually stopping them from breaking the law. Nah, I reckon you're wrong. We already have GTC sales and that's not there to allow people to buy ISK but to allow people to play the game. The fact you gain ISK through RMT is just the incentive for people to pay for other peoples play time. Honestly, did you really think this post (whatever it's purpose) through? ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:32:00 - [12] Just in case you were serious: Because bots do not care about crappy rewards. Anything that can be botted would lose its value and would get so unrewarding that no human being would be doing it. This would remove large portions of the game, leaving mostly just multibilion market and alliance politics in, which is arguably not a playfield most players enjoy.
Danui Gallente United Titans Of Progress	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:33:00 - [13] At the tone of the post i tend to believe this guy is serious about it... I'll try to giva a serious post here... If CCP would sell ISK then the farmers will always sell their isk cheaper then ccp so people who now buy isk from farmers, will still buy isk from farmers. People who don't want to buy isk because it's illegal will buy isk from ccp cause it's legal. Therefore more people will buy isk and then there will be more isk in game. This will not be good for the economy. besides... people can buy isk in form of GTC at the moment so what's the problem? ------------------------------ Eve-online guide collection Web based version
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:34:00 - [14] Yeah, and why don't you go embrace AIDS and Syphilis. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:36:00 - [15] Chigun sounds like someone with alot of accounts doing the same task :P Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Lucas Avignon Avignon Associates Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:37:00 - [16] Originally by: CCP Prism X Yeah, and while we're at it we can create a controlled environment around account hacking and credit card fraud and all the other EULA breaches.. This made me laugh Stopped reading the op after the title tbh Originally by: CCP Prism X Yeah, and while we're at it we can create a controlled environment around account hacking and credit card fraud and all the other EULA breaches..
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:37:00 - [17] Sounds like you understood nothing, as in : GTCs is already the way to control the RMT, it provides a legit way of buying isk. Players set the price, which is way better! If people want to buy and loose the biggest ship, look at GTCs, they can do it. The fact that there are a limited number of GTC buyers in the GTC sales forum already causes a limited impact on economy! CCP already found the way to control the isk to real money flow, it's the GTCs. There can be no inflation because of this system, the money moves between players (is not created from full time farming accounts) and the amount is limited by the number of active accounts. <= Perfectly controlled. For macros... If everyone in empire were macros, how would it be interesting to play? Interesting to play, these three words describe exactly why they don't want macros. Eve is based on social interactions, but macros cause no social interation, it would be death for the game. So, you understood nothing. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Shintai Chigun sounds like someone with alot of accounts doing the same task :P Emphasis on the accounts doing that single task, rather than their collective owner.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac For macros... If everyone in empire were macros, how would it be interesting to play? Interesting to play, these three words describe exactly why they don't want macros. Eve is based on social interactions, but macros cause no social interation, it would be death for the game. On the other hand, this gives me an idea for a tweak: sure, implement the API to do these UI and macro add-ons, but give anyone who accesses that API a huge "bot" flag. Now, they will appear in the overview the same way as any other belt rat, and killing them has the same consequences (i.e. none: no concord, 15 minute corp-specific aggression, loot and salvage to the killer). That would make the game a bit more interesting to play - Hulk rats would be so much more fun to kill than just another bunch of pityful Guerista frigs
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Eleana Tomelac For macros... If everyone in empire were macros, how would it be interesting to play? Interesting to play, these three words describe exactly why they don't want macros. Eve is based on social interactions, but macros cause no social interation, it would be death for the game. On the other hand, this gives me an idea for a tweak: sure, implement the API to do these UI and macro add-ons, but give anyone who accesses that API a huge "bot" flag. Now, they will appear in the overview the same way as any other belt rat, and killing them has the same consequences (i.e. none: no concord, 15 minute corp-specific aggression, loot and salvage to the killer). That would make the game a bit more interesting to play - Hulk rats would be so much more fun to kill than just another bunch of pityful Guerista frigs Huge, I would spend my time shooting them, it would be hell for them! Do you think a deimos best fits this situation? Or maybe a zealot? Or the astarte just for pure instant barge destruction. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:03:00 - [21] I vote for the OP beeing tarred and feathered first before he is removed from the game and these forums. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Chigun	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:06:00 - [22] Wow only two people actually trying to discuss the topic. Lord Huar, you're right allowing GTCs to be sold for ISK is the same. But there is a fine difference between trading a GTC, and buying ISK. I'm not sure what it is, but if it's anything more then price, CCP needs to figure out what it is and meet that need. As it is, they've set the price of ISK by allowing the trading of GTCs. A 30 day GTC will never sell for more ISK then a player can make in 30 Days, so CCP can either control that by adjusting income levels, or they can sell ISK directly and more accurately control the price. Since it seems like most players will never buy ISK, you'll have afew players running around with ships they don't know how to handle posing easy targets for players with skill. You'd also do away with credit card theft and account hacking because CCP would manage the transactions either by directly selling the ISK, or allowing people to seel it through a marketplace CCP establishes. All I'm saying is why can't they legitimize the practice, then adjust the market and gameplay to make the prospect so unprofitable it goes away. Then the only time someone might buy ISK is to recover from a big loss. And I pose the same idea for macros. Lord H I won't debate you valid RP point. I see what you mean, but I view my character differently. We just have different RP views. But I still say, legitimize the practice so you can control and monitor it. Tippia, you see my point exactly. Once that's done they can adjust the game play to make using macros a huge risk, and incredibly unprofitable should anything go wrong, just like Tippia recommended. Also, maybe, no insurance pay out for using a macro. Or out law it in high sec space, Concord fries your ass if they catch you, maybe even pod kills you. I'm not saying make it easier, but rather then have a zero tolerance policy that only makes it harder to catch the cheats. Rather then try to legislate morality, regulate it. Regulate it right out of the game by telling people they can do it, but make it so undesirable no one will bother. And for the trolls who responded so far. Sounds like you've been against ISK selling from day one. If so why aren't you protesting GTC trading? That's legitimized ISK selling. If you accept GTC trading you've already accepted ISK selling. If everyone else is protesting ISK selling so much, who's out there buying it all? And I invite CCP to review my account and post their judgement on my status as an ISK seller. They should be able to see I have one account with one character. And from my wallet journal they can see I've haven't had enough cash flow to sell ISK if I wanted too.
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:12:00 - [23] I'm not sure, whats more disturbing, u asking for this stuff to be legalized or that ur actually serious about it and apparently haven't considered the consequences even if ccp would be able to monitor all of it, why would anyone even bother to play? U just activate ur macro and go to work... errm.. no. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Poppy Star Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:13:00 - [24] For the love of god Chigun, would you please learn to use paragraphs. Also, you suck at making logical arguments. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I want mein missel spaming battelsheep.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Chigun CCP I have a question. Why not legitimize RMTs and macro mining? so you openly support fleets of covetors stripmining every belt in empire and keeping a hold on the value of T1 minerals? Mining is extremely unprofitable because of the macros. If you allow them to flourish, there won't be any reasonable way left to make ISK other than, well, to buy it. ...
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Chigun And for the trolls who responded so far. Sounds like you've been against ISK selling from day one. If so why aren't you protesting GTC trading? That's legitimized ISK selling. If you accept GTC trading you've already accepted ISK selling. If everyone else is protesting ISK selling so much, who's out there buying it all? You fail logic. False equivalency is not new, just wrong. After all, if doctors are allowed to prescribe drugs, then how can we object to dealers selling H in schools? It's the same thing, right? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

CCP Navigator C C P	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:17:00 - [27] Please keep your replies related to EVE Online. It is also improtant to note that you should remain civil and polite when replying even if you disagree with the OP's sentiments. Play nice Navigator, Community Representative EVE Online, CCP Games Email/Netfang

Havohej Minmatar The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:17:00 - [28] @OP: I REALLY hope this post has got them tearing your apart the transaction records of all your accounts to find the isk purchases (or sales?). Unless, of course, you already got your wallet set billions in the negative when they removed all the isk you've bought. Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
Chigun	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:32:00 - [29] Malcanis, you're comparing the considered action of a trained professional, to the ruthless capitalism of black market trading. Sounds like you've misunderstood how to compare similar actions. I'm saying that rather then require someone to go through the multiple steps of buying a GTC, then trying to trade it on the open market waiting for a sale. Much like going to a doctor and getting your perscription then going to the pharmacy to get the medicine. I propose something more like a HMO, it's all in one building. You log in, buy some ISK with a few clicks and CCP charges it to your account, which they already have on file. No chance of theft. They could even apply the money to the selling player's account after taking a small cut, streamlining the GTC process. Make it so you can never withdraw the money, then no one can build a business out of it. I'm not recommending legalizing the process as is. I'm proposing a change to the system to incorporate and streamline the process so no one has any reason to break the rules. If iTunes launched before Napster do you think we'd have the rampant piracy we do now? Or would only a small percentage of people cheat and steal because doing it legitimately is so much easier for the law abiding citizens?
manasi Caldari Ceptacemia Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:36:00 - [30] Why do you/others need the ISK? What is it that this supposed ISK will give you? A bigger ship that you cannot fly well? Flying a ship before you are "ready" has loads of problems but it does make for happy pirates A bigger mod that you cannot use well? I now have the bestest mod evar and now I rulz... need i explain more? What exactly is this ISK supposed to give you? As long as you have enough to allow you to play the game I'm not sure why you need more...mind you I ahve never been above 150M isk and almost all of it was earned, a friend gave me 25M isk for helping on a really tough mission but otherwise. I own 14 ships, from a Rokh, to a Merlin frigate...as long as you have enough to get you to do what you want.... Less fear of losing your ship? *DO not fly that which you do not want blown away...( GOLDEN RULE OF EVE) There is no "winning" per se in EvE ISK does not solve any of these issues....ISK is a tool plain and simple nothing more, having more ISK does not gain you anything...except perhaps more scrutiny.

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